The Intolerance of Tolerance, Don Carson

[BT3701]

Don Carson hit the nail on the head with this video by exposing the intolerance of today's brand of tolerance. Thanks Don

[brendos444]

This is a tremendous caricature of post-modernism. Furthermore it presents a simplistic position of modernism. And for whatever failures of post-modernism, we know that modernism we must go beyond modernism or transcend these to simplistic categories. The problem of modernism is exactly because people think they know absolute truth and instead of searching further they tend to dig their heels in and become dogmatic. Further, modernism does not recognize any grey areas on issues...

[brendos444]

...it just oversimplifies things that ought not to be over simplified. This notion that post-modernism is just this relativist mish mash is just an awful caricature. A Marxist will say that a Capitalist is wrong and vice versa. Just as someone like Dawkins insists theists are exactly wrong. This is not the post-modern relativist scenario Carson paints here. Smart people are interested in truth but recognise that are mysteries, some of which remain so. A modernist thinks he knows everything...

[brendos444]

... and thus simplifies. So modernism has failed. Post-modern is largely a figment of conservative evangelicals' imagination constructed because they cannot deal with their increasing irrelevance. It's telling that fundamentalist Christians are often modernists and the sincere ones are those that build the faith on a house of cards. Remove one card and the whole house falls down. The insincere ones are basically intellectually dishonest. And Carson sounds like he's in the former category.

[brendos444]

And just to experience. In Carson's modernist explanation, this absolute truth he thinks that a "market of ideas" can get at is just absolute nonsense. Of course when a modernist thinks he has truth, very rarely does he ever change mind. When you have competing truth claims, in actual experience, this does in fact lead to intolerance because people insist they are right and do harmful things. It doesn't play out as Carson describes. This is the prob with his modernist argument.

[brendos444]

So the modernist tendency of seeing the world in black or white is actually dehumanizing in experience and shows incredible arrogance. Carson, the world has moved past this modernist/post-modernist paradigm. It certainly has moved past modernity. The irrelevance of those who insist that we move back to the Bible Belt in the old modern days is plain to see. And we should reject modernity completely. further those of us who do reject modernity are not post-modernists. Get over it Carson!!

[udaman1970]

@brendos444

Are you absolutely sure about that? In other words are you making an absolute truth claim here? If the answer is no then what you took the time to wright in response to this audio clip is irrelevant. If the answer is yes than should we assume that you will do harmful things?

[brendos444]

@udaman1970 I have no idea what ur talking about!

[llihkoorb]

the 3 dislikes are from people who are intolerant

[lajungesombre]

Thanks man for being articulate and religious. You rock! I'm a Muslim and deeply appreciate your commitment to knowledge

[Jesse859]

@lajungesombre I am glad to see that you like the video, but I just want to say that Don Carlson is not religious. True Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship with God. True knowledge comes from Him alone. Without God, all we would have is man's guesses and opinions. One of the reasons people by into postmodernism is because they don't know about that relationship, and they therefore see no basis for absolute truth. All they see is man made religions, but no relationship with God.

[lajungesombre]

@Jesse859 I don't agree that God is the ground of knowledge or morality. I don't think that God has an ontological relationship to any object or force such that he does not have the same relationship with any other. In other words, God does not create knowledge any more or less than creating the stars, the moon, or even this computer, me, my words, or these thoughts. The relationship between God and any single thing is profound but not special

[OathBoundSecrets]

Tolerance does not mean that you can't disagree with people. Some people seem to think that tolerance means agreeing with everyone. That's not true at all. Tolerance is saying that everyone is free to disagree with each other openly and everyone is free to express their opinion no matter how wrong you think their opinion is. That is true tolerance.

[OathBoundSecrets]

Free speech! Always!

[EternalJudahLion]

Professor Carson is lending knowledge yet again to his fellow saints!!

[zinpgh]

Brilliant! Carson can demolish any atheist with his erudite reasoning and logic!

[queenfoursuited]

2 people were intolerant of Carson's intolerance of their intolerant tolerance. Go figure.

[disamjisa]

I got a lot out of this. I don't know much about Don Carson, but I have to say that I have noticed this ridiculous view of "tolerance" since coming to London (I just moved over here from Sydney, Australia), a political correctness that is so intolerant and out of control its almost scary.

I identify with this particularly because I'm a gay Tory / conservative, and so many left-wingers and gay people over here are of the view that if you are a Tory you are a bigot, and automatically shun you.

[disamjisa]

@disamjisa (part 2) They purport to be "tolerant", but the second someone comes along with a view that differs from their own, they become extremely hostile and make all sorts of unfounded and ad hominem accusations of bigotry and intolerance, or worse, naivety or lack of intelligence.

Having said that, many "social conservatives" who are not politically rooted in classical liberalism, are almost exactly the same in their intolerance of tolerance.

[j2004823]

The absolute right or wrong is not based on personal moral code. At an epistemology level, it is acknowledgeing the existence of truth, which represents the Right. Then deviation from that truth is the Wrong. At the same time, we understand the pursue of truth can be difficult, hence insist that my view shall not suffocate other views but to stimulate constructive discussions, which lead us closer to the truth.

[jerico641]

I can still believe that someone is wrong, and not have to make sure he or she knows it. What's important about that? Also, I do not believe, outside of my own moral code, that some things are just absolutely wrong. And my moral code is of course, subjective. Laws of the land don't even qualify, as I see the criminalization of certain drugs as wrong, again by my own moral code. And where would some cosmic objective absolute right and wrong come from?

[Natty1905]

I think this is summed up in the useful idiom, 'if you keep turning left eventually you are facing right.'

[1integrity]

The Collapse of the post Christian thought process is becoming clearer every day. Soon we either will choose totalitarian rule by marxist liberals or go back to trying to understand what are the unmovable principles of absolute Truth that we cannot move from, in order to have a free society.

[Zatki]

Zizek has some great thoughts on this subject too.

[messedupbyalovingGod]

was this a conference where smart people went cuz I am able to catch good theology but his speech is like a cloud. Got to put the hay to where the cow like me can eat.... I think he is makeing a good point though... at least what I understood...

[dinkolino2]

beautiful, and very well articulated

[Dougeroma]

Very excellent observations. If you want a detailed treatment of this subject then read Carson's book The Gagging of God.

[MishaVargas]

He's completely correct, and completely obvious.

So, I could read his 640 (!) page book on the subject, directed towards Christians. Hmm.

No thanks. This atheist already agrees. It just has nothing to do with Christianity, as far as I can tell — not any more than any other area of life. Tolerance for ideas, and not people, affects us all.

I guess I'm just not part of his audience.

[Reformchick]

Very timely.

[KapernicusI]

Good point, though not inobvious through observation.