Fossil Foolishness: Utah's Pursuit of Oil Shale and Tar Sands

[SLCforLIFE]

what about EPICC? Is that a viable solution? Or is the problem of water supply still a future issue?

[Vulcan750L]

Sounds like one of the main arguments against development is the heavy use of water. From what I understand, they would be recycling 90% or more of the water. This sounds like a misleading propaganda piece against Shale Oil development. Maybe they'll change their mind when it's $10/gal at the pump.

[DrReaper]

Hemp seeds are 30% oil. You can make bio fuel from it and drive all over the place. It's the establishment that is blocking all the fuel you can ever want.

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

As long as you're will to plow over the United States and turn most of the land into farmland and competing with food production for available farmland, and are willing to pay twice as much for your food, then I guess you could use hemp seeds to provide us with less than 10% of the fuel we need. Is it worth it?

[DrReaper]

@Vulcan750L

You do know that hemp is food right? You only use the seeds for fuel. The seeds are also food and the rest of the plant can be used for fifty thousand products, most of which we import now because we so incredibly foolish. Also hemp will grow most anywhere in all fifty states and it improves the soil for farming! It was used for an off season crop when growing food wouldn't work. Do some more research on industrial hemp.

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

I don't know anybody who eats Marijuana except to get high or supposedly to cure some ailments. There is already enough for that.

Who eats hemp for sustenance? Nobody!

[DrReaper]

There are thousands of health food stores selling imported hemp products. Because it's a health food its expensive. Most people don't eat healthy. If it were not blocked by government fiat more people would have access to healthy food. Remember Marijuana is a Spanish word for hemp and it was used to make hemp illegal, before people knew what was happening to them. Now it's used as the argument to prevent industrial hemp from cultivation. 35 nations around the world export hemp to the U.S. market

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

Right, so there is already enough to supply the market with Hemp. I live on the Big Island of Hawaii in an area known for it's pot growers. I don't know anybody who eats the stuff. It is widely available, yet nobody eats it, except to get high.

There is no significant market for Hemp as a food product in the United States so that is a poor argument for increasing production 100,000 fold and turning forests into Hemp fields.

[DrReaper]

Just because you don't know anyone that eats hemp doesn't mean it isn't a useful solution to the oil problem. In fact it can solve our oil dependency. We won't have to cut down tress anymore because we can grow more fiber per acre. Also the quality of fiber is better. The longest fiber you get from a tree is about an inch long, hemp can be 12 feet long. You can make a building out of hemp because if you combine hemp with lime it petrifies into stone. Really it is it's own economy in a plant.

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

You are mixing my two arguments, one is about Hemp as a food product, and the other is about Hemp as a bio-fuel.

And on who's acres of land will you be using that you don't need to chop down millions of acres of forests in order to supply our fuel needs? Maybe you don't understand how much fuel we use every year, 7.5 Billion barrels of oil is what you would need to replace. Each barrel = 42 gallons. How much land will you need to supply just 10% of that?

[DrReaper]

@Vulcan750L

I didn't mean to mix arguments but the subject is bigger then just food or fuel. I wouldn't chop down any forest. i would just make it legal to grow industrial hemp. Every industrial nation besides the U.S. grows hemp. I get so mad when I see a guy in Europe making a ton of money off hemp and I cannot grow it. Free market my ass. We are a land of fiat and permits.

[DrReaper]

@Vulcan750L

I didn't mean to mix arguments but the subject is bigger then just food or fuel. I wouldn't chop down any forest. i would just make it legal to grow industrial hemp. Every industrial nation besides the U.S. grows hemp. I get so mad when I see a guy in Europe making a ton of money off hemp and I cannot grow it. Free market my ass. We are a land of fiat and permits.

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

Every industrial nation besides the U.S. grows hemp? I didn't know that. And are they allowed to smoke it for recreation?

I thought in some places in the US, it is permissible to grow the stuff for reasons other than recreational.

[DrReaper]

@Vulcan750L

I see your missing the fundamental difference between hemp and pot. Pot is the cousin of hemp and you can smoke it and get high. (same as drinking). Hemp you would need a joint the size of a telephone pole to get high. So it really has no purpose as a drug. In fact all pot grown out doors would loose its value if hemp were legal. The industrial hemp would cross pollinate it and reduce its power as a drug.

There have also been encouraging breakthroughs in algae fuels.

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

Now, algae, I like :)

I like that idea about funneling the exhaust of coal burning powerplant's smokestacks to aerate the algae.

[DrReaper]

@Vulcan750L

My point I would like to get across more then any other is this. If there is a possible solution to the energy problem Government should get out of the way. A fiat on hemp is as crazy today as it was when it was put in place. Algae, wind, solar, wave, geothermal, hemp, should all be legal and explored as a solution.

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

Who is actually trying to produce Hemp for energy? This is the I've heard of it. Are they doing this in Europe?

Hemp seems like worse than the other Bio-Fuel alternatives.

[DrReaper]

@Vulcan750L

Toxic petrochemicals can be replaced with hemp oil.

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

Sounds like you are going around in circles here.

Why Hemp oil? Why not soybean, palm, corn, or algae oil? Apparently no one in Europe is using Hemp oil for this purpose, so it must be a poor choice.

[DrReaper]

@Vulcan750L

Because hemp is blocked by fiat in most areas the research hasn't caught up with reality. The world is run by oil barons and banks. Do you think they want people making their own fuel for free? You can check out hempcar . o r g if you don't think it works. i know it works because I do the research. Let me ask you something. If industrial hemp can't get you high why has it been blocked all these years? google hemp for victory it will show you if threatened the system will make it.

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

You keep avoiding answering my question about Europe. I've asked you twice already. So are there restrictions in Europe against making fuel from Hemp? Why aren't the Europeans making fuel from Hemp?

Unless you have a farm and a processing plant, I doubt you could make enough to fuel your vehicle. It wouldn't be feasible for individuals to try and make their own fuel.

[DrReaper]

@Vulcan750L

I don't live in Europe so I won't be claiming to know what is going on there. I do know of a case where a company grew a warehouse. They grew the hemp, turned it into bricks and build a warehouse.

Did you check out h e m p c a r . o r g ? The fact is it's possible to make fuel. So why is it still illegal? Because everyone wants prof of concept when they have no access to materials. When faced with fact they still want more proof and yet it is still illegal to even try to prove it.

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

The fact that you can make Hemp into fuel doesn't matter. The point is, is it practical? Is there any demand for it? If not, then there is no point in legalizing it for the purpose of making energy. The negatives far outweigh the positives especially when there is no practical use of it as a fuel? So how can you keep trying to use that as a justification to legalize it?

[DrReaper]

@Vulcan750L

Well my response is hemp isn't good for just one product like fuel. Its a full spectrum product.

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

I can make a car that runs on wood. Or I can make a steam engined car. Both are possible. But both are impractical and nobody wants a wood burning car or a steam engined car. And nobody is trying to use Hemp to make energy. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it's practical or feasible.

So why would they legalize something that is impractical as an energy source, that nobody wants, but would create all kinds of problems for them to try to enforce the illegal kind?

[DrReaper]

Why is it illegal in the first place? Because of greed of wealthy men. They don't want you to get high and yet they get blasted by drinking all the time. Also I think that it's impractical as an energy source is debatable. I know you can cold press the seeds and fill an oil lamp. That isn't impracticable to me. I think many people are just so hooked on the status-quo oil that they cannot see they are enslaved by a few people that control that resource.

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

Bio-fuels and other green technologies are being pursued on all fronts. There is a huge green movement currently going on. I guess you've been living under a rock for the past 5 years. To say that people are hooked on the status-quo are unfounded.

[DrReaper]

@Vulcan750L

Not true. They banned hemp to keep thousands of products from being produced here in the U.S. so globalist can make a fortune producing them in other countries. You seem to be stuck on fuel when hemp means thousands of products.

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

I don't see anything made from Hemp in the US, imported from Europe or otherwise. If there are any Hemp products made in Europe, there apparently is not a big demand for it since I don't see it anywhere. Is it a well hidden secret? Or is it because there is very little demand or use for Hemp products?

How many billions are "globalists" making from Hemp imports to the US?

[DrReaper]

@Vulcan750L

I think they are making their billions by keeping it illegal.

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

"I know you can cold press the seeds and fill an oil lamp. That isn't impracticable to me."

It is impractical if there are better alternatives and who is growing Hemp for this purpose? If it was such a great idea, everyone would be doing it.

There are better alternatives to running cars by burning wood. That fact makes wood burning cars impractical.

[DrReaper]

@Vulcan750L

So now by your logic people would be doing it because it works. Well last time I checked they toss you in jail if you try it.

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

It's illegal because some consider it a harmful drug. I don't happen to agree with them, but that is beside the point. Alcohol and cigarettes are just as harmful or more so.

Personally, I think they should legalize all drugs and legalize prostitution. The laws don't work and do more harm than good.

[DrReaper]

@Vulcan750L

Same here... I still won't use them but I disagree with a nanny state.

I have been doing some research on algae, I won't go to jail for that, I have come up with an angle nobody has published yet. I hope to go to prototype in a few months. I am being held back by money.

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

Industrial Hemp is probably outlawed because it would be too difficult to enforce the difference between the two. Could they tell the difference between the legal kind and the illegal kind from 1000 feet in the air from a helicopter? And it's not something that is necessary for anything. We have many alternatives.

You sound like another one of those conspiracy theorists.

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

As a bio-fuel product, is Hemp the best choice? What about soybean? What about palm oil? What about corn?

Are Hemp seeds better than corn? Can you produce more fuel per acre than corn, soybean, or palm oil?

[DrReaper]

@Vulcan750L

Well the funny thing is hemp is always excluded from the government studies before they start because it's illegal to grow hemp in the U.S. Other counties are proving that it is in fact a fuel substitute. Not only that but its a clean burning substitute. I have seen video of it burning in a test dish and there is no smoke like you would expect from a petroleum based fuel.

[Vulcan750L]

@DrReaper

The main argument here is about fuel, although you brought up all that other stuff. This video is about fuel.

It's already been determined that Bio-Fuels is not the answer. It doesn't matter from what plant it comes from. Any crop used for Bio-Fuels will have the same problems. It takes up too much land and competes with food, and couldn't supply the amounts we need. It also takes a lot of fuel to produce the fuel crops. The net return is low. Takes 1 gal. to produce 1.3 gal.