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From: mrs260
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  • „An open mind, the essence of intellect” I just love the way he says this - such a classy gentleman Garak is! 8D

  • Intensely charming. Love Garak.

  • You know, it really doesn't help to overcome the gay subtext of Bashir/Garak when the scene after their first conversation has Bashir sprinting to Ops to gossip with O'Brien, all "Guess who talked to meeee!" like a schoolboy with a crush!

  • I cannot believe I didn't notice how homoerotic the subtext in this scene is the first time I saw it!

  • Garak: Sexual Predator XD Oh that would make a great spin off or a really nice slash fic :)

  • Comment removed

  • so they are the first official gay characters in startrek?

  • @contact1araya Official? No. It's all in the subtext. :0)

  • Garak seeks out the youngest, most naive member of the senior staff to become his apprentice, and by the end of the series Bashir knows enough to be able to give section 31 the run around.

  • Actually in an old interview with Andy Robinson, he says he initially tried to make Garak come across as "omnisexual" (or "pansexual" something like that) but was shut down after a few episodes because of the complaints. You aren't imagining that at all.

  • @whisperingmists Shut down?! Complaints?! That's so lame.

  • Holy crap. This is SOOO gay!

  • Garak totally works out at my gym

  • Garak is to lying as a boxer is to fisticuffs.... and Bashir just became his new punching bag. XD

  • Haha! Garak reminds me of Hannibal Lecter, here.

  • cardasians=german charakter

  • Bashir's and Garak's unique friendship made the DS9 that much better.

  • Bashir's going to wake up hidden in a bulkhead wearing nothing but electrical tape and panties after this.

  • And so it begins. What episode was this?

  • @Blasted2Oblivion The episode is called Past Prologue -- it was the second episode aired.

  • I love this, primarily because Bashir has a look that says "This guy is either going to f*** me or kill me, either way, I'm f***ed!"

    Garak is soooo creepy in this, almost as if he's deciding whether or not he's found a new bitch, a friend or a date.

  • You can tell Garak just loooooves creeping Bashir out. Legend!

  • My slash-o-meter just exploded...

  • Garak: "doctor bashir isnt it?". Bashir: "yes?" Garak: "freeze. Just like a statue. Thats right, one wrong move and i'll kill you and the girl both...."

  • @miko1975guitar Yep. Great scene in Dirty Harry.

  • And so to the conversation in Ops...

    Bashir: "You won't believe who just sat down next to me in the Replimat! The Spy! Garak, the Gay Cardassian!"

    Sisko: "We don't know for a fact that Garak's gay, Doctor."

    B: "He is! You should have heard him. He ... he struck up conversation just like that, he was making contact with me - with me, of all people!"

    Dax: "What do you think he might want from YOU, Julian?"

    B: "I don't know! Sex, perhaps? Rest assured, my oath of celibacy is on record, Commander!"

  • @mcsw99 you sir made my day

  • @mcsw99 Bahahaha love.

  • plain simple Garak

  • @GodSpark127 So what you're saying is that Andy Robinson, who has repeatedly said he played this scene as sexual, doesn't "know the characters very well".

    Your interpretation is a valid one. That doesn't make it the only valid one, or even the *most* valid one.

  • @mrs260 Ah, but you have to admit that male-male relationships in fiction (see Frodo and Sam) are often sexualised after the fact.

  • @Azakhiel Yes, they often are. In general, I'm in favour of it -- queering a text, even without a lot of skill, is a fun way to both critique and combat the invisibility of queer people and relationships in fiction.

    Not sure how that's relevant to this situation, though.

    (General note: slashers generally don't sexualize every fictional m/m friendship they come across. Many of us are actually rather picky. I mention this because I don't want to have that stupid argument again.)

  • @mrs260 Careful, now. I was speaking about _after the face_ sexualisation. In other words, looking back at already-produced work and seeing sexual undertones where none may have originally been intended.

  • @Azakhiel So was I. I think it's not only a valid thing, but a necessary response to homophobia and heterosexism.

    Also, don't tell me to be "careful". My comments are not a democracy, so don't patronize me.

  • @mrs260 No patronizing intended. It was just a turn of phrase, like "just a minute, here...", or the like. No need to be on edge. :)

  • @Azakhiel All right. :0)

  • I love Garak & Bashir.

  • Flirtiest thing ever

  • Even my mom thinks Garak has a thing for Bashir.

    No, she isn't an old school Kirk/Spock shipper.

  • There should totally be a "Ship's Closet: Garak/Bashir Edition"

    I LOVE IT!!! XD

  • 2:00 The look on Bashir's face is absolutely hilarious!

  • Show would have been better if Garak had the gotten the role of the doctor

    I miss this show! Been a while since I last saw it...between all the studying...and now I have to start looking for a job...I will definitely buy the DS9 show dvd set once I get a stable job

  • I never really saw Garak as flirting with Bashir. Maybe I'm just homoblivious.

  • If it's anyone who's interesting, Garak, it's certainly you. :)

  • A recipe for surprise butt secks if ever I saw one Paha.

    I love Garak, probably one of the most unique characters in the star trek franchise :)

  • Why is it that whenever a man exhibits anything approaching physical affection for another man, the question of whether he is "gay" automatically comes up? If the clip showed him eating a salad, would you start debating whether he is a vegetarian?

  • @normicon Why is it that whenever a man is attracted to another man, there are a bunch of "defenders" saying he couldn't possibly gay? It isn't an insult. I understand that not everyone sees the subtext, but Garak is a classic Celluloid Closet archetype. I'm not pulling this out of my ass.

    If I saw Garak eating a salad, vegetarians were oppressed, he was a classic vegetarian film archetype, and the actor and at least one writer said he was vegetarian, then yes, I would think he was vegetarian.

  • @mrs260 You completed misunderstood my point. What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter if he's gay or not. His sexuality has nothing to do with his character arc (even the part about Ziyal), and it certainly doesn't define a man as complex as Garak. Most gay men I know don't consider their sexuality to be their defining characteristic any more than I do. I'm questioning the emphasis being placed on his sexuality, not whether he is or is not gay.

  • @normicon It matters because it allows an unrepresented minority to be represented by an interesting, non-token character. It matters just as Uhura and Sulu mattered -- they didn't have to be non-white, and it wasn't important to their stories. But the creator chose to show minorities because that in itself was important in an unfair world.

    North American media isn't diverse enough to say sexuality doesn't matter. Every queer character matters because they're still almost non-existent.

  • @normicon I know I bang on about this point on my YouTube comments, but that's because I've encountered a distressing number of Trek fans who've argued that the reason there are no queer people in Trek is that we've happily been eradicated.

    I really don't mind if other people see Garak as straight, as long as they don't try to deny the validity of interpreting him as queer. As tantalizingly close as he got, I realize he wasn't unambiguously, textually queer. :0)

  • @mrs260 One more thing: I do not believe that anyone should need a "defender" against the suggestion that they are homosexual. Homosexuality is as legitimate a sexual preference as heterosexuality. I simply look forward to the day when people's sexual preferences will no longer be considered an issue for debate, in fiction or in reality.

  • @normicon I do want to apologize for misunderstanding you, and thanks for being good about it.

    I look forward to that day, too, but I just don't think we're there yet. Someday! :0)

  • I think Garak was just fuckin' with him.

  • I thought Garak was going to be really awesome. I'd found out about him before I'd seen an footage of him. To say simply, he really creeped me out. Doesn't make him any less interesting a character, though. Andy himself said about playing Garak, "He's not gay, he's not straight, it's a non-issue for him. There's an absolute fearlessness about presenting himself to an attractive human being. The fact that the attractive human being is a man doesn't make any difference to him."

  • I'm surprised at how adorable Bashir is.

  • "Ah, an open mind!" What a flirt.

  • love your decision to include julian excitedly rushing to tell everyone about his encounter -- that was always my favourite part

  • The look on Garak's face as he approaches Bashir . . . Dracula could've used such a look.

  • Wow. Garak has game.

  • I think I misspelled 'course.' Basically, the actors were all a little unseasoned in the early eps, obviously. ;)

  • A. Robinson in an interview: „I started playing Garak as someone who doesn't have a defined sexuality. [...] Originally [...], I loved the man's absolute fearlessness about presenting himself to an attractive human being. (That it is) a man (Bashir) doesn't make any difference to him […]. (T)he writers supported the character beautifully, but in that area they just made a choice they didn't want to go there, and if they don't want to go there I can't, because the writing doesn’t support it.“

  • I can't tell if that's "DO NOT WANT" or "OH GOD DO WANT" vibes Bashir's putting off here.

  • I love how Garak is always in the control of everything, everyone and all :D

  • To contribute a constructive criticism when Garak tolk Bashir he's the obvious only Cardassian left, that's quite a given. How would a top rate Star Fleet doctor not know that? Alien physiology isn't a requirement or elective coarse at Star Fleet Academy.

    Not bad in those days. Feels too slow today.

  • "plain simple Garak"

    complete irony to the chaos that unfolds later on

  • That final glance at the camera is pure genius.

  • In interviews, Andrew Robinson said that the character was supposed to be a one-shot, and he played him as an omnisexual attracted to Bashir. However, after they decided to make Garak recurring, he was told to drop that aspect of the character. Despite that, I thought the homoerotic subtext between them remained to some degree. It was part of what made their relationship so fascinating, though I was able to enjoy their relationship on a purely platonic level as well.

  • Oh how I love the deliberate pauses he makes: "What [pause] a thoughtful young man!" "Doctor, you're not [pause] intimating.." "Plain[pause] simple [pause] Garak." "I'm so glad[pause] to have made such an interesting [pause] new friend today." He's like a serpent hypnotizing his prey :))) It's a pity they didn't use AJ Robinson more in the series, all the episodes he's in are really great, regardless of the central issue. What a shame that these two didn't have more scenes together.

  • God, these two were SOOOO slashy. I was just reading some old journals of mine from when I was 14 and a major trekkie, and Garak/Bashir was one of the "pairings" I was really into. That's what prompted me to seek out this scene after all these years. :-) I say Andrew Robinson is awesome for having injected some much-needed homoeroticism into Star Trek, which I STILL can't believe never had an officially gay/bi character.

  • Garak loves creeping the humans out

  • Garak enjoyed every minute of it.

    Although it does seem strange that every alien has 5 fingers and is about the same height and weight.

  • I really wish star trek was't one of the last tv shows to be so anti gay so Julian and garak could have done some more flirting. it worked so well.

  • This is like the fourth gayest scene in Star Trek history. I love it.

  • If by "gay" you mean splendidly subtextual, then you are so right. I love how Julian acts like a teenage boy with a crush - witness the plant bit at :47, while Garak is all "Yes, I know you are struck speechless by my hotness, so I'll take pity on you and do most of the talking." :-D And of course there's Julian's reaction at 2:00!

    What seals it is afterward Julian running to O'Brien: "SQUEEE you'll never guess who talked to meee!!!"

    How can anyone deny this is flirting?

  • I have no idea. Perhaps they are just willfully obtuse. XD

  • what's your 2nd?

  • @kitzlaihel Were you referring to my gay Star Trek scenes list? If so, #1 is definitely the kiss in "Rejoined", but the rest of it gets a bit fuzzy. There's Spock's speech about "feelings" after V'ger in The Motion Picture, there's that scene with Picard and Q on the bed that sounds really weird out of context, there's the "Kirk thinks Spock is giving him a massage" bit, there's O'Brien's "I wish my wife was more like a man" line...I could go on. Still need a canon gay character, though.

  • i was. i think the Q thing should be second, even if it's not serious. I haven't seen the 'feelings' speech so idk, but i don't get the rejoined bit that's with dax?

  • @kitzlaihel It's an episode name. One of Dax's spouses from a previous host comes back in a new host body of her own, and now they're both female, but still in love. They kiss. The Spock thing is more subtle, but he's still holding Kirk's hand and talking about how machines will never understand how he feels towards him. XD

  • lol i got to see that

  • @makenziecat What are the top three?

  • His makeup there makes him look more intimidating back then, I'm glad they modified it to a more suiting look.

  • The most blatant flirtation in the ENTIRE series.

  • Did Garak just break the fourth wall at 2:07?

  • @Babylon2260 It's really creepy! I feel like he was looking right into my eyes.

  • I think he does.

  • and babylon if you pause it then. He looks like a friendly person.... Boy are looks deciving.

  • @Babylon2260 a little bit, actually... good eye.

  • "Plain, simple, Garak.", who knew what that first scene would lead to when we first saw it? One of my fondest memories of DS9 was Garak's introduction as a recurring character. All the stories that that opened up.

  • If I were Bashir, I'd be hard as a rock by the end of the scene.

  • You're not intimating that I'm some sort of spy now are you Doctor? LOL

    I wish they had allowed Robinson to play Garak like this the whole series. They told him to cut it out because it was making viewers unhappy.

    Either way, Garak kicks ass in every scene.

  • lol "if you wish, as i do, for a bit of enjoyable company now and then, im at your disposal doctor" haha his face is just screaming *wink wink if you know what i mean...* haha priceless

  • They had great chemistry from the off, didn't they. :)

    Nice scene. I always did enjoy Garak and Bashir together.

  • Such a fabulous little scene. Garak is my absolute favorite character... I love watching him make Bashir so uncomfortable - I can't stop giggling at the doctor's expressions.  "Doctor, you're not intimating that I'm - some sort of spy, are you?" Priceless. Also - a bit of enjoyable company, eh, Garak? Just what are you suggesting? ^_^

    A great beginning for my favorite friendship (with slashy subtext, of course) in the entire series. And yay! the shoulder caress...

  • garak is interested in more than just his company me thinks lol

  • Is Garak gay ?!?!?!

  • Andy played him as bi. Amongst the fans, I think the answer is "depends who you ask". I like to presume he's gay.

  • andrew robinson said in an interview that he was intending him to be bisexual or something along those lines, and the folks at paramount told him to tone it down

  • He intended to play Garak as omnisexual, not bi, because he wanted the whole gender thing to be a 'non-issue' for him. Personally, I think that idea fits Garak's character perfectly, and so that's how I view him. :P

  • @mrs260If Garak is gay, then how do you explain Ziyal?

    Personally I think he is omnisexual.

  • @lillethia Quite easily. :0) I think she has a crush on him and, although he has affection for her, he doesn't return her romantic feelings. He also doesn't want to alienate her.

    My interpretation doesn't change even if I posit that he's omni or bisexual. I cannot see his feelings for her as romantic -- I think he's determined to provide her with a decent father figure, because he thinks Dukat is incapable of being a decent father.

  • @mrs260 Well, since nothing was established in canon, I guess your theory is as good as mine;-)

  • @TheTrekkie12 as I recall it the writers did actually planned a romantic relationship between garak and bashir, but the producers shot that idea down(because they where afraid of offending some homophobes with that(like there are so many of them among star trek fans *rolleyes*))

  • lol i like the way Garak says Bashir XD

  • isent this the 2nd episaod of DS9 ? ?

    Bashir And Garak !!! FTW

  • WTF was with Garak's breasts?

  • apparently after this little scene andy robinson was told to tone it down a bit which i think is a total overreaction

  • and yet Avery Brooks' acting becomes more exaggerated over the season. Sisko ends up taking more dramatic pauses than William Shatner.

  • I noticed that in the scene where he punches Garek and his speech/computer log in the same episode

    watch?v=s2E1Ij5D6T4

  • At 2:02, it looks like Garak read the George W. Bush guide to friendly bonding gestures...

  • Ugh! Bashir should have declared his love and gone to Cardassia with him at the end. Stupid PTB.

    They were made for each other.

  • OH, Bashir, SO ADORABLE! So awkward!

  • ...>.> what a friendly cardi

  • Run Julian !!! RUN !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • I definitely think the homosexual subtext was there, even though they tried to backtrack by giving him a love interest in Ziyal. And it also seems that the closets on Cardassia are especially large and deep.

  • I believe that the actor said he played Garak bi... and to be honest, they played the heterosexual life partner angle with the Chief and Bashir.

  • The O'Brien/Bashir friendship was one of the great, underrated things about DS9.

  • I think that is because it was - for the most part - underplayed and understated. I thought it was fun.

  • He did look pretty amused at his exit. Probably knew what Bashir was thinking.

  • being gay does not mean you can't be badass

  • I remember when I first saw this episode -- I never got the impression that Garak was actually hitting on Bashir. It seemed more that he was playing on Bashir's "greenness" and desire for adventure as well as injecting his usual air of mystery and intrigue into his new "friend." Garak has always been my favorite DS9 character. It would have been interesting if the writers would have done more with his omnisexuality in this series, but the suits probably discouraged it.

  • man siddig looks so much like mr mcdowell in clockwork here!

  • he was supposed to be gay? i thought he was just messing with him for the hell of it

  • Lol I wish they didn't get rid of that whole plotline....that would've been awesome...the subtext was so there in this scene XD

  • I know. I loved some of the stuff they did with those two during the series, but they could have done so much more....

  • The cool thing is, not only did this launch Garak but everyone laughed off Bashir when he said he was worried about Garak being a spy. But Bashir is right, and this helped him go from more wide eyed to revealing how effective and smart a guy that character was.

    They saw the best in each other. Each had atributes the other liked and wanted to have but at the same time couldn't fully go to. For Garak it was innocence and for Bashir it was the other side. But they saw the best in each other.

  • well, maybe he saw spy potential in Bashir. After all, Section 31 did.

  • well you cant blame garak for hitting on him can you, i sure would

  • Yeah, he's pretty hot. Poor kid...at 1:54 he looks like he's just been violated.

  • This scene is just so priceless! I love it! Bashir and Garak have to be my favorite characters in the entire Star Trek genre. ^_^

  • "You don't say?!" Lol. Garak is so hilarious!

  • HAHAHA! i love this seen, and the innuendo! they were my fav 'couple' in DS9 even more then odo and quark....and the way Bashir runs to tell his friends like a schoolgirl, batting at that flower he looked terrified and adorable! SQUEE!

  • totally XDD I love that scene.

    SQUEE is the exact right word for that =D I think it´s kind of sad that they didn´t make them a real couple - it would have fitted.

  • I liked the subtle "relationships" they created on DS9. Garak-Bashir, Odo-Quark, Quark-Kira, etc............

  • Lots of talk in the comments on whether Garak is gay, bi, straight, or other. I haven't seen DS9, so I can't exactly make an educated evaluation, but from what I saw in TNG...didn't a lot of the male Cardassian have a similar sort of...manner to them? Maybe it's a sort of cultural thing?

    In any case, though, the look on Bashir's face when Garak talks about some "enjoyable company now and then" makes me think the fans might not be the only ones seeing the not-so-subtle innuendoes here. ^_^;

  • now that I'm on the third season, its amazing to look back at this clip and see how much more confident Bashir is around Garak. No longer a wide eyed bunny, Bashir unabashedly talks about his suspicions about Garak being a spy. no "I wouldn't know...sir." And also, no soft-spokenness and nervourness. Now its "LOOK GARAK. I TURN 30 IN 2 DAYS SO IF I CHOOSE TO BE GRUMPY ABOUT IT IS MY PRERROGATIVE!" :P XDD

  • Yeah, I love that. :0) And the way Garak responds, "By all means, Doctor, be as grumpy as you like!"

    It's funny, but it also demonstrates a more subtle thread running through their relationship: Garak accepts Bashir's annoying characteristics in a way that nobody else does, and I find that really sweet.

  • In "The Wire" of course, we find out why Garak's so cheery

  • Oh. I just replied to a previous comment without reading MadamGul's one. XD I just repeated what they said. :P

  • In an interview with Andrew Robinson shortly after he wrote DS9: A Stitch in Time, he said he believed the relationship between Garak and Bashir had homoerotic undertones and that he played the character with an element of those undertones. Midway through the series, the writers were probably ill at ease with Garak's sexuality so a romantic relationship between Garak and Ziyal was written. However, Garak never did seem to reciprocate those feelings;)

  • So - they didn't like the idea of Garak being homosexual, so they tried to set him up with a teenage girl instead?

    WTF?

  • "Ah, an open mind--the essence of intellect."

    I have a feeling Garak would answer questions about his sexuality in the same way.

  • It is a funny scene...almost a predatory seduction of the innocent.

  • The funny thing was, when this episode first aired and I saw it, I figured that Garak was sort of this regular guy who everyone thought was some kind of spy and had sort of a good sense of humor about it!

    Whoops!

    This was pure genius, it turned out to be great for both characters as well as the show, having Bashir and Garak become friends!

  • Honestly, I never got a "gay" vibe from their scenes but I wasn't looking for it. Like you, I think Garak was just being his usual manipulative self, esp. since right after this scene Bashir runs to O'Brien to tell him that he just met Garak and believes Garak is a spy for the Obsidian Order.

  • but the guy who played Garak DID say he interpreted Garak as being Omnisexual and acted that way in this first scene with Bashir. According to him, people threw so many fits, he 'removed' that way of acting but you can tell anyways Garak isn't strictly heterosexual throughout the series.

  • My favourite bit: 2:00 to 2:05. Watch Andy Robinson act using only his hands! That slight pause between putting the hand on the shoulder then pressing the fingers down makes all the difference!

  • I'm very fond of that bit too. :0)

  • Garak was clearly taking the piss out of Bashir - a young inexperienced Federation doctor - as evidenced by his smirk towards the end of the scene.

  • robinson also said that garak would want to have sex with anyone/anything he could have a decent conversation with.

    that probably includes bashir - but it doesn't make him gay.

  • Which means, If I ever met Garak, I could have him.

    That's nice to know.

  • cardassians flirt by bickering, we saw that in the episode with the three cardassian scientists. one of them suddenly declared her fertility to o'brien, after they'd had an arguemnt, because she thought, he was flirting.

    So YES garak has been flirting with bashir on probably every lunch occasion AFTER this scene.

    in this - certainly not.

    he's just his manipulating obsidian order self.

    don't judge a book by its cover.

    don't judge garak by obvious behavior.

    chances are: it's a faaaake. ;)

  • lol at "It's a faaaaaaaake", one of the best delivered lines in the show, ever. That actor off milennium wasn't it?

  • no - that was a romulan in the episode where the romulans are tricked into the war.

    hm. in the pale moonlight? i'm not sure.

  • Love any and ALL scenes w/Garak.

  • I love this scene! bashir is adorable and you caan sense the slashy undertones and innuendo. Garak is by far (IMO) the best character eva!

  • Garak was supposed to be omnisexual

  • JSmith99, delicious flirting with you....

  • Wink!

  • lol garak the man who answers everything with a question gotta love it

  • Bashir, is so beautiful. I can't think of a strong enough word to describe him. Beautiful, handsome, gorgeous, adorable, I just...don't...know. :P

  • Wow, what a creepy character.

    And yes, Bashir just has the best expression of shock on his face :)

  • First time I ever saw their first meeting! The DVD I got was so damaged I couldn't even watch this scene :( So thanks so much for posting my two fave Characters :)

    As far as the whole "Garak: Gay or Not" discussion, I remember Andrew J. Robinson in an interview said (when questioned about Garak's Sexaulity: "I don't consider Garak Gay or Straight.." can't remember what he went on to say but anyways, who cares? Garak was a great Character either way.