"For The Bible Tells Me So"- Their Dilemma!

[y0ungmachine]

The difference between homosexuality and other perversions of sex is that homosexuality has the most accepted studies proving it is a genetic disorder not a psychological disorder. One does not choose. With that said I ask you, if God does not want homosexuals why does he keep creating them? Also, the Bible was not written by God. It was written by men. There is a difference between faith and religion. The two contradict each other.

[ARationalResponse]

@y0ungmachine

Your question assumes that God created someone to engage in consensual same-sex sexual relations. That is not true. Yes man wrote the Bible, i.e. physically wrote it, but where did they get what they wrote? The answer- God. The video I responded to attempted to use the Bible to justify same-sex sexual relations. If you choose to not believe the Bible that's your choice this discussion assumes for sake of argument that the Bible is true.

[tonyonly2]

@y0ungmachine actually nowadays the American Psychological Association, the American Medical Association, The American Phsycoanalytical Association, The American pediatric association and many others no longer consider it a DISORDER at all!

[tonyonly2]

and YOUR dilemma is not looking like a moron!

[ARationalResponse]

@tonyonly2

Please share comments that are relevant and not personal attacks.

[MrRosindust]

I don't want to start a debate, I just have a simple question. I'm not religious so I don't read the Bible, but I do really respect the ideals and morals of the church. I don't really read into Bible verses (no pun intended) but I know they are there to establish right and wrong. So my question is, what is wrong with gays having sex? (I'm not really looking for a Bible verse but rather a personal opinion.) I don't want to be controversial, I'm just trying to understand. Thank you.

[ARationalResponse]

@MrRosindust

My opinion is of no value. It would only be subjective. So would everyone else's including the church's. To your question the answer is "GOD said so". The same is true for a man cheating on his wife or any other sexual sin. If someone wants to attempt to defend subjective morality let them.

[multismashify]

It is my wish to try my hand at answering your propositions. However, in order to do so, I feel as though I must address some portions of your presentation that you may feel are beside the point, which in turn might lead you to accuse me of coming forth to ridicule rather than try to prove you wrong. I assure you that such is not my intent, and that whatever issues I select to focus upon are quite crucial to the matter at hand. To begin, it seems as though you are trying to mix the...

[ARationalResponse]

@multismashify

I look forward to you attempt. I will answer your questions but demand the same from you. Go when you feel you are ready.

[multismashify]

@ARationalResponse Forget it. My desire to argue was formed before I had seen that you had enabled the feature that requires the vid make to approve the comments of other users before allowing them to appear in the video's comment section. I have no desire to debate with a selective rationalist.

[ARationalResponse]

@multismashify

As long as you do not use any offensive language all of your comments and questions will be posted. If you are really interested in defending a position opposite of mine then you could start your own thread and I will gladly engage. You can be in control of the comments. Sound good?

[windbeamproductions]

A question for you: Why do you "Christians" always care so much about what other people do? No one ever calls you on it, either. It's not healthy, it's not morally right, it's definitely NOT what the Bible teaches, & MOST of all, you guys screw yourselves out of true spiritual development. You literally don't have the TIME to develop your spirituality because you've got your head so far up everyone else's anus trying to police what they do. Ya'll are the Hall Monitors of the religious world!

[ARationalResponse]

@windbeamproductions

Love for a person's eternal destiny is one reason why I care. I don't "police" anyone. You are free to live as you want but there will be consequences.You ALSO care about what other people do. If you were convinced that what someone was doing was going to kill them would you not care? Perhaps try to point them in a different direction? Of course you would. Would that constitute "policing"? No.

[macrent2]

True, but the Bible also condemns my schrimp scampi dinner at Red Lobster!

[ARationalResponse]

@macrent2

The dietary laws you have reference to are under the Old Covenant. We live under the New. Please try to pay closer attention to what is said. Thanks.

[LordTakhisis]

Boy I sure do hope you saved your virginity until you got married then.

[ARationalResponse]

@LordTakhisis

What does that have to do with what the Bible teaches? Could I share a video on lying or stealing if I at sometime in the past lied or stolen? If I did any of those things it would not have been right. If I want to please God I would need to repent and do better. The same would go for fornication too. Right?

[smurfboywv]

I can't believe how much hate this bigot has in him. If he goes to heaven I refuse to go. Someone find him and burn him at the stake.

[ARationalResponse]

@smurfboywv

Don’t you see that you are now preaching the very things the video “For the Bible Tells Me So” claims is wrong to do toward homosexuals? I have clearly state that it is not about hate or hating anyone. If you refuse to listen I can’t help you.

[got2brational]

ARR, I notice that no one has yet answered your propositions. I have read your email exchanges with Dr. Mel White, Dr. Peter Gomez, Dr. Daniel Helminiak and others. The lack of integrity is obvious. I'll check back periodically to see if the propositions are every answered. I doubt they will be. Take care.

[ARationalResponse]

@got2brational

Thanks for your observation. No one has answered, including the Drs you mention. They have put themselves into an impossible position. They see that. That's why they will not answer. If they endorse the homosexual relationship they must also endorse the hetersexual relationship. You can check back when you like but I too doubt the propositions/quesitons are ever be answered.

[thomaseshuis]

In other words your propositions only tell us it is fornication when done unmarried. So married gay people and heterosexuals can do those things. So you see you have given yourself a dilemma. Lastly have you ever considered the fact the people you e-mailed had not desire to respond to your props because they felt you would not listen anyway. Not saying it would be so, just giving a plausible explanation.

[ARationalResponse]

@thomas

The married can commit sexual immorality too. It’s called adultery. “Married gay people”? That is your & their dilemma, not mine. They did not answer the propositions/questions because they could NOT without condemning consensual sexual relations between those of the same sex (homosexuals) too. Why don’t you think they attempted to answer the way you are trying? They know that there is NO WAY “gay-marriage” can be defended from a biblical perspective. Let them/you try if they want.

[thomaseshuis]

@ARationalResponse It is not my dilemma as I do not believe the Bible to be any more then a collection of stories. If you had propositioned the verses of Mark, Gen. and Cor. your argument would have made sense (within biblical text). The propositions you make in the video of them self do not make a case against homosexuality to people like me who do not know the bible by heart. I will concede that the verses you send to me do condemn gay marriage.

[thomaseshuis]

Ok here I go:

Prop 1: I'll take you on your word about those bible passages and put in true here.

However these passage of them self give no definition of fornication/sex immorality.

Prop 2: A great a definition. Though heterosexuality is irrelevant here.

Prop 3: For the sake of argument I'll accept your idea of switching words.

You fail to see the big flaw in your logic; all your passages speak of unmarried people. Ergo they are only forbidding things to unmarried people, not married people.

[ARationalResponse]

@thomas

You answered #1 what about #2 &3? After you answer the only thing left to discussion is MARRIAGE. Whatever “fornication” is for the man-woman it MUST be for the woman-woman OR man-man in consensual sexual relations. Read Dr. Keene’s statement again. His statement does not address marriage. Of course “unmarried”, “not married people”. My propositions #2,3 clearly mention “unmarried”.

[thomaseshuis]

@ARationalResponse That might be true. But my point remains the same: the props you mentioned only condemn sexual relations between unmarried couples, whether they be gay or heterosexual. They do not forbid sexual relations between married people. This my point, not Dr. Keene's. If he failed to mention this argument then shame on him. But I am presenting it and would like to know your answer to it.

[ARationalResponse]

@thomas

The burden of proof rests with anyone who desires to make an argument from the Bible for “same-sex” marriage. I know that the Bible (New Covenant) sets forth certain criterion for marriage. In Mark 10:6-9 Jesus gives us God’s design from the beginning of creation. See Gen.1:27; 2:18-24. Paul repeats these principles in 1 Cor.7:2-5. Marriage involves only two human beings- one male and one female. The New Covenant authorizes/sanctions same-sex marriage as much as it does polygamy.

[thomaseshuis]

@ARationalResponse I see. The passages of Mark and Corinthians do indeed appear to be describing marriage as being only between a man and a woman. Could you answer me this question then: If God createad ONE man and ONE woman; how did mankind procreate? As the only possibility is incest. Either between Adam and Eve or between Eve and Cain.

[Jveigel7]

The bible can be interpreted in many ways. It is a book to use as a reference not word by word.

[ARationalResponse]

@Jveigel7

Do you think I can interpret your comment in many ways? No one takes such a position unless the Bible is involved. Can John 3:16 “be interpreted in many ways”? Upon what basis did you conclude that the Bible “is a book to use as a reference not word by word”?

[MaskofTheMoon]

Any halfway intelligent marketing director or sociologist will confirm that "The Medium is the Message", and when God's message is reaching people through the likes of televangelists, the 700 club, Focus on the Family and other deeply corrupt organizations, how could God expect people not to become confused?

[ARationalResponse]

@MaskofTheMoon

I have no defense for the ones you mention. I agree that there is much confusion and that confusion rests in part on some who claim to follow Christ. However that does not mean that we cannot come to a knowledge of the truth. I am convinced we can. Cp. John 8:32. The problem is not God or the Bible it is man who is not handling the Bible in the right way.

[MaskofTheMoon]

Personally, I think that God is probably pretty reasonable, if he's real, and would be willing to listen to reason. After all, it's mostly people who call themselves his "followers" who have made things so terrible muddled.

[ARationalResponse]

@MaskofTheMoon

God is reasonable but He has spoken. Our choice to either accept and obey or reject and rebell.

[MaskofTheMoon]

I love one man, and only one. I am faithful to him and he is to me. We laugh and share and support each other, try to be decent folk and just help each other on our way through life. If that gets me sent to hell, so be it, because I would rather have a lifetime of love and companionship with a man who loves me for who I am, than a lifetime of misery, self-denial and loneliness because somebody thinks that God made me wrong.

[ARationalResponse]

@MaskofTheMoon

You can laugh and share and support each other and be decent folk and help each other through life without engaging in sexual relations. You can have love and companionship without sexual relations too. Jesus calls all who desire to follow Him to self-denial (Lk.9:23). That is a choice we must all make.

[MaskofTheMoon]

The way I see it, if God is real and Jesus is the Messiah and Leviticus is true, I am pretty much screwed and there is nothing (short of one of those death-bed-confessions of which the Catholics are so fond) that I can do to stay out of hell. The fact that I am gay has already reserved me a place! So I'm going to to the best I can, right?