Alan Dershowitz: On Secularism

[BER2ERKER]

This guy literally misses the entire point dealing with secularism vs religion, and the reasons why we partake in it. Wow.

[musspuss]

how dare you call this man a professor he is a piece of shit.if i ever was to bump into him in the street i whould knock him the fuck out no question asked.

[aziz2085]

the problem is with him is that he keeps on saying secularism. he uses the bible to prove the case for israel but then doesnt read one line on the benefits of having a judaic law. secularism is fine but how much of it is fine, for centuries people have lived side by side without any issues, secularism gives rise to sin and certain freedoms. if ur atheist its fine but if ur a man who belives in jesus or moses then u cant be secularist. ur the putting words in there mouths.

[TurboDally]

@aziz2085

"secularism gives rise to sin and certain freedoms"

What may be sinful in one religion, maybe be perfectly moral in another religion. What may be given as freedom in one religion, will be seen as corruption in another religion. Simply put, secular law is neutral with respect to religion. Hence, secular law can be based on evidence rather than authority/scripture. And regarding creation of Israel- it's not the only country/state stolen using justification from religion.

[aziz2085]

@TurboDally show me a true example of what you said in your first line. its well established that murder is murder providing you feel the need to protect yourself from invading armies or mischief in the land, and even then it is not the common man but the state which must protect it selfs. secularism this century alone has done the exact same thing in what you say about religion. secularism can be a religion without a god but gods who sit in a chair and design laws

[TurboDally]

@aziz2085

Slaughtering animals may be seen as cruel/vile in one religion (Sikhism, Jainism, etc), however in Abrahamic religions it is seen as acceptable. Rape/theft/enslavement of captive women is seen as justified in Abrahamic religions, in another religion it is seen as unjustified and cruel (Sikhism).

"secularism..."

Is treating matters without promoting or condemning religion- neutrality."

secularism can be a religion without a god"

Then you don't know what secularism and religion is.

[aziz2085]

@TurboDally secularism has gods not a god. america is the leading nation an empire which rules all other nations. now each individual country has its own laws etc but america needs to establish a modern day slavery to most countries to be the empire it is. im not being anti american because even if canada was an empire id of said the same thing or china or india.

[TurboDally]

@aziz2085

"george bush lied about weapons of death"

He provided little to no evidence for his claims, anyone with a rational mind set, a true American patriot would have challenged him on the basis of taking a country to war on the basis of little to no evidence supporting his claims.

"i would like to know why is the law never applied to him"

Because those in power don't like laws applied to them. This can be seen of those in high positions, whether it be wealth, politics, religion, etc.

[aziz2085]

so secularism has hidden secretive modes of operation. in a practical religion the burden of proof would be on george bush to even consider attacking iraq. secularism has a survival of the fittest mentality and it needs wars to create and enhance its empires. secularism in reality is america being the leader of the new world order over all other nations, when pakistan cries for trade not aid why doesnt america want to listen to them. why are africans still dying, is secularism the answer

[aziz2085]

@TurboDally u seem to miss the point. america and most of its allies need certain events either too big or small to position them selfs as world leaders. to be honest we all live in a modern civalised society but the question of how free we really are will always come into place. george bush should of had the law applied to him as if he was a servant of society not its master.

[aziz2085]

@TurboDally ...cont..laws which are there to protect them and punish the rest..george bush lied about weapons of death...and he went in and changed his mind on the reasons iraq was invaded so i would like to know why is the law never applied to him. he used a reason his reason was false hence he created a dozen of reasons. the insurgents are not islamic radicals but people who know iraq is now a puppet regime of the west.

[aziz2085]

Respond to this video... he still uses a god to prove israel belongs to a jew...wake up man..

[TurboDally]

@aziz2085

I was responding to YOUR comment on THIS video. Also, an atheist using a god to prove Israel belonging to Jews? He's a massive hypocrite. But when talking about how religious loons use their religion to justify stealing land/exterminating/oppressing natives- I'm not surprised really, Jews, Christians and Muslims have been doing it for centuries.

[chuck3668831]

@TurboDally He doesn't use god to prove Israel belongs to Jews. He uses international law and history. Get a clue.

[Dgrainboy]

It's so sad none of these comments hold to any basic level of intelectual conduct, if only any of these comenters knew how to dissagree like dershowitz.

[OrthodoxDarwinist]

Here is Alan Dershowitz the Zionist clown arguing that torture should be legalized:

"The treaties against all forms of torture must begin to recognize differences in degree among varying forms of rough interrogation, ranging from trickery and humiliation, on the one hand, to lethal torture on the other."

Anyone who supports this monster is clearly morally degenerate.

[citizenOfNowhere777]

I have NO respect for this guy to listen anything he has to say.

[citizenOfNowhere777]

Am I supposed to take this Dershowitz guy seriously after all the lies he wrote and "The case for Israel"?

[JohnnyRock2000]

A despicable liar. Whatever he says he doesn't really support, he bends logic so that he presents a case for it. Like torture, genocide an nuclear war. He support all those things and more, usually for Israel. A twisted person. No genius here and not brilliant, just a talent for distortion and deceit. Harvard is embarrassed of this clown.

[citizenOfNowhere777]

@JohnnyRock2000 After I wrote "Am I supposed to take this Dershowitz guy seriously after all the lies he wrote and "The case for Israel"?", I saw yours. Isn't a shame that Harvard cannot get rid of this despicable lier? How can he even use the phrase, "I don;t think I am smarter than they are .." there is nothing smart about this guy. Only despicable-ness is there with this guy.

[saileddragonfly]

WHAT A MORON...CHOMSKY ALL DAY.

[jdubbin78]

This guy may be smart but he tries to play the apologist for everyone. If one looks at secularism and fundamentalism one clearly adheres to the basic morality most humans ascribe to. Alan says that you shouldn't try to convince others of your views but when we see fundamentalists doing everythything from marrying preteen girls and killing gays, to beating women and killing non-believers, does morality not compell the individual to spread what he sees as right?

[JohnnyRock2000]

@jdubbin78 - Many, many Jews are fundamentalists too as well as Zionists. When Netanyahu claims some ancestry to a 3000 yr old Jew of Jerusalem, he is actually claiming Israel for Jews only. Even secular Jews base claims on Israel on Bible "history", that is disproved by archeology over centuries. No great cities, no Jewish masses, all mythology, like the Arc, David and Goliath and Jonas and the whale. Fundamentalism at the root. All Israel's archeology is Arabic and tiny Jewish past.

[jameshanley40]

@JohnnyRock2000

Totally untrue and silly of you to say that. Netanyahu has said 20% of Israel's citizens are Arabs and they are Israelis. Muslims have their holy land - Saudi Arabia. And they have many countries and want to deny jews their one country.

[superhamzah85]

@jameshanley40

Peel Commission, 1937 - David Ben Gurion (first prime minister of Israel) talked about "Compulsory Transfer of Arabs" to secure a Jewish majority.

We call this "ethnic cleansing" today. If you agree with this - then you are a Zionist. If you disagree, you are anti-Zionist. It's really as simple as that. The people born there, who fled wars, are not allowed to return. The people who have never been (A Jewish guy from NY) can go there and live in the Arabs home.

Side with the gud

[jameshanley40]

@superhamzah85

I think it was Lord Peel that came up with the transfer idea originally.. and it was in the air. It wasn't unusual in those days. But nowadays, unfortunately I think, the only thoughts of transfer are of transferring jews ethnic cleansing parts of the west bank or as has been done, Gaza. You are totally off the rails loopy with your equation. Netanyahu does not support transfer of arabs so in your equation he's an anti-zionist. "side with the good" yeah dont transfer jews..

[jameshanley40]

@superhamzah85

making sure that no jews are in any future palestinian state.. there are palestinians in the state of israel, they're called israeli arabs by some.. they're palestinian arabs..

[wildreams]

He is extremely intelligent an wise. An admirable character.

[citizenOfNowhere777]

@wildreams dershowitz is an admirable character? What planet did you come from?

[wildreams]

@citizenOfNowhere777 What is your problem with him? Everything he says here is just and fair.

[Cordialis]

Please have this video dated. Just writing 2007 is not good enough. We can't use undated sources on our websites and blogs. Please!

[niginit]

This guy is too political to want to ever approach anything resembling the truth.

He summarizes the work of atheists like dawkins and Hitchens VERY poorly, in hopes to win over the minds of silly agnostic and credulously inclined fools.

This whole thing is ridiculous, let's get this guy out of whatever office he holds for secularism. It's obvious he has other motivation for labeling himself as secular. He isn't secular in any standard of the word.

[citizenOfNowhere777]

@niginit Isn't that the truth that this guy is too political to want to ever approach anything resembling the truth. He is a self-serving person.

[niginit]

You think religion and science are "separate magisteria"?

Okay, so you have shown yourself to be an ignoramus on the entire subject you're speaking about.

"I came from a religious background and don't feel that I am smarter, or better"

Good, so did Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, or any other outspoken atheist today. So, how are you different from them in that regard again?

So, basically you are benching yourself comfortably on the fence to make it seem as if you are more reasonable.

[apango2000]

Dershowitz is a proven liar and a plagiarist, how dare he still shows his face in public.

[citizenOfNowhere777]

@apango2000 Exactly, how dare he shows his face in public!

[hazydavey]

Three points of criticism:

1. This business of separate magesteria is an intellectual cop-out. Religion and science both make claims about reality.

2. William Jennings Bryan WAS a fundamentalist and crass populist. He wasn't merely concerned with the misuse of Darwinism. He opposed it completely.

3. Our Constitution is, in many ways, revolutionary (not conservative) - most obviously in providing the very separation of church and state Dershowitz celebrates. This was RADICAL!

[morchid]

secularism from a zionist who justify the the stole of lands by biblical jewish ideas

[MrBelaou023]

One problem, this land wasn't stolen, zionism is the truth..

[didate]

People so preoccupied to figure out founding fathers views on religion, but why? They lived several hundreds years ago. They were influenced by politics and superstitions of their time. The Constitution is interpreted by the ones who's in power today. If it's evangelicals, naturally, they see their interpretation of god -Jesus at their convenience wherever.

[hyperseauton]

Dershowitz seems not a compassionate person to me.

[moezephead]

Just to make the point very well understood and succinct, take a look at the comments of his attackers. Not a lot of substance to any of them. Mostly just a lot of hot air being blown over one aggravated subject or another. (Sad to say most of the attacks are based largely on his Jewish background... not much of a real shocker but pathetic all the same.) It's as if they had some attention deficit disorder and didn't listen or try to understand a damn word the man was actually saying.

[headlesssoldier]

@moezephead the reason for this is Dershowitz the person. The acerbic pain in the ass. He (not so much any more, thank my god) is oftern called to offer the opposing (not wanted, that is) view on many issues. I began my dislike for him as he took every opposing position and screeched accross American airwaves. He doens't understand what is right or moral or just, etc.. What people want, is what they want. thats the moral highground. Not somebody telling me and my neighbors how to live.

[moezephead]

Dershowitz makes much sense and doesn't attack anything baselessly. What he discusses is generally well thought out and very well researched. He is not trying to champion any one side or the other, he makes that very clear in his overall practices. He seems very honestly to be assessing reality and the ways of human affairs quite perceptively and intricately. His antagonists generally express their ignorance(and ultimately prejudices) by their practice of isolating one issue or another about him

[bilgueits]

@moezephead hahhaha,

[TwinNova]

Does anyone know what book he's referencing at about 20:00 min in ?

[MrDarkbloom]

Dershowitz is a revolting human being - an apologist for Israeli violence and obvious deceptive propagandist. I know I'm the bad guy, but if he died in a road accident tomorrow.. I'd actually feel comforted (I may even laugh a little... I don't know). Wow, we just lost another vile lying enemy of humanity.

[Benjiko1]

Hey, it's ok to be jealous. We can't all be as brilliant (Harvar law professor, Supreme Court clerk) as he is.

[MrDarkbloom]

Oh, I see. There's no substance to my criticism of his work. It's only jealousy.

What a cheap shot.

[JesusSavesAtCitibank]

Dershowitz can't move beyond his youthful religious indoctrination. Just look at the history of this current decade to see the damage religion has done in usurping our constitution, tragicly hampering stem cell research, promoting a mindset of anti-science and stupefying our students among other things. This has come to pass directly because of the lack of challenges to the silly ideas of ancient religions. Dershowitz is wrong, we cannot pretend religion is not a detriment to all of us -- it is.

[Benjiko1]

Yes, we should attempt to emulate famous atheists and paragons of virtue such as Stalin, Mao, Karl Max, and Pol Pot , unlike those crummy religionists.

[JesusSavesAtCitibank]

None of their actions were made on behalf of non-religion, where we can think of many who do act on behalf of their theistic religions. Stalin was raised Russian Orthodox and attended seminary. He effectively made himself as godhead of a new "state" religion.

As physicist and Nobel Laureate Steven Weinberg pointed out in a dialogue on religion and science: "Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things -- that takes religion."

[newmac]

So his argument; then is "let people be stupid in private".

[camino1ca]

Religion should be embarrassing to present in public. Every time somebody says that their god killed himself to save us from himself for the rules he made they should be embarrassed, it's shameful.

[camino1ca]

Religion and science ARE in conflict. Religion makes unsubstantiated claims as fact, science actually produces results and is evidence based. Every time some creationist nut tries to bring creationism into schools, spreads misinformation, and makes claims that they can not back up as facts, they are in complete conflict with reality, science.

[mavaddat]

I'd love to see Dershowitz debate Austin Dacey. They have an interesting disagreement about the place of religion in the public square. Dershowitz believes religion should be private (to keep one's dogmas from being imposed on another). Dacey says bring it out into the public (daylight is the greatest disinfectant).

[Mjhavok]

I'd like to see Derschowitz debate Norman Finkelstein again so Finke can destroy his fraudulent, slanderous, mendacious ass once again.

[Breakyerself]

I think religion is baseless. There is no evidence for the legitimacy of religious belief. I don't want to live under a governement where any belief is illegal, but I don't see a problem with living in a society where unfounded beliefs are not regarded with respect..

[tripleVeeVee]

I keep hitting the thumbs down - by mistake. Sorry. I meant thumbs up. (I think it's b/c the green +3 is located right beside the down_thumb... poor GUI design? It's tripped me up on several occasions, usually when I'm tired).

Atheist here. Glad to read your comment.