@AguilaComandanteDGO ...cajamarka was where pizarro met atahualpa the first time. "Totally dishonorable like anything Europeans have ever done" like ANYTHING the europeans "EVER" done. i love it. good guys vrs bad guys? cannons, armored cavalary, and guns vrs clubs, slings, short bows. nah, that couldn't have had anything to do with it. incas spread their empire through military conquest, spanish spread their empire through military conquest, no sense demonizing an entire people.
@AguilaComandanteDGO "Small pox caused 95% of our population to die" true. "Otherwise, the Spanish would have never ever touched us militarily with only 1000 men" really? wow. so you're telling me men with clubs, slings, and short bows would have continued to hold back armored units with cavalary and artillery? amazing! incas turned tail and ran early on not knowing what to even make of conquistadors. all it would have taken was reinforcements without the disease to finish the job.
@AguilaComandanteDGO "universities" oh whatever. and yeah, european cities were disgusting. see that, admitting a flaw in one's ancestors, try it sometimes, keeps one rooted in reality.
@AguilaComandanteDGO "since you monkeys learned how to navigate the seas" hahaha. yes, and those "monkeys" found your civilizations ages behind them technologically, and walked over your civilizations like grass. butthurt much? jealous? you still haven't recovered, your countries are still in third world purgatory. give me a fucking break. i mean, since we're being racist and all and labelling entire people, why not call a spade a spade? you were dragged kicking and screaming into modernity.
Judging a so utterly different culture like the aztecs from the view of modern ethics is completely useless, also comparing it with the vastly interlinked civilisations of the mediterranian and the middle east - the aztecs had a totally different background and a totally different environment. The comparison with the soviets and the third reich is simply stupid they were industrialised western states gone mad under single leaders
So please for sanitys sake stop comparing apples with potatoes!
@AguilaComandanteDGO I don't have to show you that the Europeans, or anyone else, was "better" to make my case, asshole. The Aztecs were objectively nasty. Any other culture, regardless of their race, hair color, or other personal characteristics who behaves similarly would likewise justifyably be called "nasty" as well.
The Bolsheviks and Nazis made big buildings too. They also had a knack for complicated machinery. That didn't make their behavior, or their belief systems, any less odious.
@AguilaComandanteDGO Europeans tended to wipe out their nastier cousins. Apparently the natives of the Yucatan and Central America did the same thing too, as soon as they got the chance.
Thus, the Aztecs being the "Nazis of Mesoamerica". Or the Assyrians, if you like. And like European versions of cultures holding to similarly noxious views, they met a justly deserved bad end primarily at the hands of their outraged neighbors.
Why are peple bitching about aztec sacrifices it was so long ago and it was a ritual like most other civilizations all over the world had different types of rituals during that same time get a fucking life you haters instead of bitching about things that happened hundreds of years ago and if you"re just gonna talk shit then don't watch.
I suppose it's a bit like trying to say that slaves of the Romans really liked being fed to animals, or forced to fight each other. There's certainly evidence for some of that amongst gladiators and Christians, and of course lots of evidence that the regional culture had much to do with it.
I'd suggest, however, that if Spartacus had Spanish guns and tactics to help him, the Romans would have fared much more poorly. I'd hardly feel much sympathy, nor would I blame the Spaniards for it..
Many cultures in Mesoamerica practiced sacrifice. It was not unknown to the subjects of the Aztec, many of whom practiced it themselves. They may not have liked being sacrificed by foreign overlords.
The Nahua people of today do not sacrifice people, they just conduct rituals like the Aztec commoners would, with prayers and incense and such.
@TheLastMexicatl The Aztecs were unique in using systematic human sacrifice as a tool to maintain control over their empire. And again, I remind that it was their beleagered neighbors and conquered peoples that ultimately did them in, and not the Aztecs.
They remind me most of the ancient Assyrians, who were similarly doe away with by a coalition of their neighbors. From all the evidence, the Aztecs were one nasty lot - a rather odd culture for the Marxists to try to build a race war around.
The Zapotec, Mixtec, and other groups within the Aztec Empire all practiced human sacrifice, even before Aztec conquest. Even the Classical Maya practiced it, but people shower them with praise. Granted some groups did not like the idea of being sacrificed by a foreigner, but they did not disapprove of sacrifice as a whole. The Aztec were not heros, nor were they villains. They were just people who did remarkable things, both good and bad.
@TheLastMexicatl "The French,British and Americans all killed civilians during World War II. The classical peoples of Europe were known for it, yet their societies were praiseworthy. Granted, the people of Auschwitz probably probably were not fond of being killed by the Nazis, but they did not disapprove of using lethal violence to fight back."
"The Nazis were not heros or villains, they just did remarkable things, etc."
And yet their indigenous neighbors wiped them out. I wonder why.
I'm done with you. You will disagree with anything I say, no matter what it is, because you have some fanatical hatred of the Aztec. Fuck you, goodbye.
@TheLastMexicatl The Aztec culture that the Spaniards encountered was indefensibly nasty. The other indigenous peoples that had to endure the Aztecs before the arrival of the Europeans apparently not only felt this way, but decided to do something rather dramatic about it as soon as they had the chance...
@TheLastMexicatl ... No amount of moral relativist whitewash will obliterate that rather obvious fact. Nor is anything in this historical narrative easily perverted into justification for the racist hatred the Marxists have been trying to foment against the "Anglos" of late.
That's right, everything and everyone in the Aztec Empire was nasty, every single farmer, potter, and even the babies. They all went and killed anything and everything they could for their own sick amusment.
@TheLastMexicatl Well that explains why you're offended. You read something, decide it means something else entirely, then riff on that. You're deluded. Fair enough.
In any case, I thought you were done. So why not take yourself and your fascist bullshit somewhere else then.
why people make sacrifice a big deal while other civilization did worts shit on people like these so call u.s.a that took land from native americans from mexicans ..brought eslavery and imperialism..and i dont see nobody saying anything about ....
I am so sick of people thinking human sacrifice = evil. This was no different than a Christian or a Muslim dying in the name of their religion. Forget the image of a screaming teenage virgin dragged to her death at the hands of some crazy priest. This was mostly battle hardened warriors or volunteers being sacrificed. How many people today would volunteer to die for their religion? The Aztec had one up on us in that area.
@TheLastMexicatl The people who were murdered by the Aztecs were not "volunteers". They were captured males that were periodically culled during staged "flower Wars" to keep the populations of tribes subject to the Aztecs in control.
They did not treat their neighbors well at all. They enslaved and brutalized them. And when the chance came, these subject peoples rose up and annihilated this vicious empire and its people.
The people "culled in the Flower Wars" sacrificed captured Aztec warriors as well. The Aztec usually left the native leaders in charge after conquering another people. Even if what you said was true, that doesn't justify the slaughter of innocent Aztec people by the Spaniards. The craftsmen, women, elderly, the common people in general were the victims of horrors the likes of which they had never seen before the Spanish invasion.
@TheLastMexicatl I remind that the slaughter of the Aztecs was not, indeed could not possibly have been perpetrated by the handful of Spaniards under Cortez, but was rather the wrathful and quite understandable result of the Aztecs' "happy" subjects and slaves getting the upper hand, most notably the Tlaxcala.
There were plenty of horrors in Mezoamerica before the "evil" Europeans came. The Aztecs were most certainly one of them. That fact is far too well documented to ignore or lie away.
Tell that to the Aztec potter who died a slow death from smallpox, or the Aztec woman raped by a Texcaltecatl warrior after watching her husband die from a musket wound. Yes, they did some nasty stuff, but that is the nature of empire. That did not, however, justify the slaughter and brutalization of innocent Aztec people, like the women, children, and ordinary citizens of Tenochtitlan.
@TheLastMexicatl The Aztecs were not done in by muskets (of which, again, the Spaniards had but only a few), but by native weapons wielded by native peoples of Mezoamerica. And I cannot say whether a potter would prefer dying in bed from a disease, or violently, by having his heart torn out so as to amuse the Aztec aristocracy and clergy.
Regardless of whether you think the Aztecs deserved to be exterminated, their subject peoples had no problem deciding the matter. On them the matter rests.
You are aware that Aztec people still exist in Mexico, correct? They speak Nahuatl, and some even honor "saints" in ways similar to how the Aztec commoners honored the gods. Sacrifice was not simply to "amuse the clergy" as you put it, it was a religious duty taken very seriously. The priests weren't violent or bloodthirsty, as you seem to think. From what surviving records say, the common people held them in very high regard.
@TheLastMexicatl There's still quite a few descendants of the Aztecs, yes - although as far as I know, only the drug dealers still practice that perculiar "ritual". I also know that this business about the "Mexica" has more to do with Marxist identity politics than any historical accuracy or truth.
You're going to have a hard sell, to convince me that the Aztec subject peoples from whom human sacrifices were taken actually liked the practice. Surviving records say quite the opposite.
Certainly the Aztecs treated their subject tribes in a worse manner. But in the US, many tribes ceased to exist, destroyed by disease or the colonists. Only the Portuguese were comparatively worse man-for-man, especially in their treatment of African slaves (who they tended to work to death), but there were relatively few Portuguese in the New World, and theyu held their terrirories in Brazil intermittently.
If you want to make a case for "bad Europeans", best to work with the Yanks.
The American colonials won their state as a result of a successful war against a coalition of France and native tribes, and fought their rebellion from Britain later, in part so as to have a free hand with the native tribes. For over a century thereafter, while Spanish and natives lived under teh ecomienda, and while British Canadians mainly left the natives alone, the Americans steadily made their way westward, "winning" the West through guile, colonization and war.
An organized governance does not necessarily imply atrocities to keep it going. The Hanseatic Merchantile League got along very well without having to kill lots of people, through ritualistic sacrifice or otherwise. In fact - if I may be so bold as to reveal my own biases - democratic governments tend to be the least nasty.
Incidentally, if we are going to be critics of "Western" cultures and their affairs with the American natives, the worst malefactors must be the Americans themselves.
Speaking of evolutionary theory, it would be interesting to mate Michael Savage and Janeane Garofalo, to see what sort of ideological mutant might emerge. But I am afraid it is not to be, so we shall just have to wait until the Carville/Matalin experiment bears fruit.
But of course, none of this has anything at all to do with Aztecs and their atrocity-based culture. Sorry, for I digress.
Janeane Garofalo is just a comedian. Not much of a political commenter. I would say a good example of leftist "fundamentalist" bullshit is Michael Moore, that guy has a left wing bias on most issues he talks about. As if using the federal government is a way to achieve socialism....federal government socialism = fail. Socialism can only work on a local level and it has to be 100% voluntary.
All civilizations are atrocity-based. The birth of civilization marks the start of slavery, war, and such
(As an aside, I have no idea how "creationism" plays into this, other than to say that every culture seems to have its own indigenous creation story, which always seems to be made up of equal parts of speculation, poetry and lunacy. I tend more towards an evolutionary theory myself, mainly because it seems to work better - but I'm certainly open to ideas.)
Ah ok. So your the Michael Savage type. Doesn't really change the fact that you have the mindset of a creationist.
You tend towards evolutionary ideas yourself?? What dos that mean? You only partly accept evolutionary theory, when it is the backbone of biology and accepted by every aspect of the scientific community? You are open to fucktarded ideas? Your open to dumb creationist logic?
@silverbackman I rather prefer Christopher Hitchens. I've listened to Mr. Savage on the radio, and although he has something of an amusing frenetic energy he says too may stupid things to be tolerable for long.
You do sound like someone who'd have a familiarity with the man. I suspect you'd prefer someone with better Leftists credentials, however. Janeane Garofalo perhaps?
I don't consider myself leftist or rightist. I don't take dogmatic sides on any issue, and many people who called themselves "liberal" I would have nothing to do with. I do prefer Noam Chomsky, though I don't agree with him on certain issues as well.
@silverbackman I wasn't around during the Permian extinction, nor was I ever acquainted with the dinosaurs personally, so I can't be for certain how these phenomena came into being. But I must admit to being more convinced by the gradual, DNA-based evolutionary theory than the "War in Heaven" proposition or the "World Flood" idea.
But, unlike thick-headed ideologues, I'm always open to new ideas. I'd need to see the evidence, of course. For example, a dinosaur saddle or two.
It's fine being open to ideas. But being open to pure insanity is another thing, which is what creationism is. As far as I have seen, there is no alternative to evolution in the scientific community. It's such a foundational basis for biology that it makes you wonder how creationists can ignore this fact.
Here too is why Marxism continues to "pop up" - for it is Marxist "scholars" who consistently misrepresent this history, and who seem to be keen on promoting a Mexica identity that is at once violent and racist against Europeans. Thus why such Marxist "scholars" so consistently make the same deliberate error of defining "Europeanism" as a culture and ideology of racism, persecution, conquest and mass murder - while trying to deny that the Aztecs themselves practiced anything of the sort.
This will hopefully be my last response to your idiocracy. So I will summarize this for you one last time.
1. Communism is a future, STATELESS, classless society where the means of production are controlled by the community as a whole, where all work is shared, and where all ownership is shared.
2. No one denies whatever brutal practices were carried out by civilizations of any type, not only Aztecs but others too. It is quite obvious though that you can't compare european colonialism to that.
@silverbackman Ah. So the sheen of "lighthearted banter" has been cast aside. Fair enough. As for whether this is your last attempt at obfuscation, that is your affair.
1. Our future is moved by variables and forces of great range. It is indeed a fool that claims to prognosticate on affairs he has little grasp of. But history is what it is. It happens, and the truth of it does not change throughout the ages.
Ok. And pigs can fly. So if you like to change the definitions of words from their original meaning, go right ahead. I'm not going to take part in it.
It's still lighthearted, but you are what you are.
2. The Aztecs were brutal, repressive imperialists. The Spanish role in their downfall was to act as a rally point for neighboring tribes that had endured the most ugly persecution, most notably the Tlaxcala. So for tmost tribes in Mexico outside of the Aztecs, Spainish "colonialism" was something to be celebrated.
That may fly in the fact of Marxist predictions, but then Marxism is more mysticism than science so that's to be expected. As for European colonialists, the worst were socialists.
Alright you made your point that pigs can fly. Move on.
The Aztec were as much repressive imperialists and the Romans and such civilization. They conquered, made an empire, and made those they conquered provinces of the empire. You can't compare that to european empires, who raped and pillaged the wealth of nations they conquered.
And there you go back to your fox news glenn beck marxism babble. Since you have demonstrated to have little knowledge about communism, I would bother there.
If we compare teh Spanish culture, with their Crusades against Muslims in the lands of Israel, with the Reconquesta, even with the Inquisition, we still have nothing to compare with the campaign of genocide and terror that was the Aztec policy. Only by pretending that Aztec claims themselves are exaggerated can one pretend that this was not the case. The native tribes that banded together, even today, carry an oral tradition that speaks to a view of Aztec culture that is altogether monstrous.
Ok. Keep ignoring what I said. And fine. If you want me to stroke your ego, then ok "the Aztecs were one of the most evil people ever to walk the earth. They killed 20,000 people a day in their sacrifices" *cough* declared impossible by historians *cough*, there are you happy now?
Should we rename Mexico too? Since after all, by your omission, Mexico is named after such an evil group of people.
The real losers of the Spanish conquest were not the Mezoamerican peoples in general, but mainly the great empires - the Aztecs and the Inca. The Inca people were an advanced and stable culture, and suffered badly at the hands of the Spanish - by the time of their fall, the Spanish were well established in "New Spain". But the Aztecs did not so fall. They were instead brought down by a coalition of their neighbors, the tribes that they had persecuted and oppressed for years.
Very well then. Let us try to go beyond the "scholarship" of a Ward Churchill.
The Spanish did conquer the region known as Mexico, and very much more of the America besides. They also helped to bring Muslim-style slavery to the Americas (in part by buying slaves from African Muslim empires). They did not, however, treat the native Indian tribes nearly as bad as the Aztecs did. In fact, the Mexican population is made up predominently of people of native or mixed native heritage.
There you go again. Bringing up other non-white peoples, bashing them, and defending white exploitation. Any chance you could GTFO, I don't like debating with neo-nazi white supremacists. You trying to bash muslims now because you are a christian fundamentalist. Granted, chattel slavery was wide-spread in the Arab speaking world, as it was in so many other places in the world. The fact that you randomly bring them up now really shows it all. BTW, can you show me the evidence for creationism? LOL
@silverbackman I am not a Marxist racist. Historical analysis does not have to bow to the championing or vilification of racial groups, based on who my ideological faction happens to be siding with at the moment. Thus human sacrifice,a nd not Mezoamerican racial features, are what define the Aztecs as exploitative and cruel. Likewise the evil of Marxism derives from the hypocrisy and murderous cruelty of Marxists, and not a bit from the racial (or continental) origins of its creator.
This is all about your hatred for "marxism". So STFU. I don't take bigots like you seriously, who defend European atrocities and like to emphasize atrocities of non-white people. Socialism must mean pigs can fly too. Since you like to twist the original meanings of definitions.
@silverbackman My sentiments regarding Islam derive in part from my Armenian family's experience in the Ottoman empire during the Armenian genocide, in which most of my grandfather's and grandmother's families were killed. Of course, to a person who has tried to defend human sacrifice as a "minor cultural idiosyncracy", and who has tried to defend Marxism and the like (!), I doubt I could make you understand my issues with the faith. My problems with Islam certainly have no racial component.
And when the christians committed their genocides, that for some reason does not matter. And while you continue to put words in my mouth, I won't take any of your psuedo-babble seriously. The fact that your saying that I'm defending human sacrifice says it all, when not one of my statements hint at this. So go back to your creationist brothers and stop this nonsense.
So just stop. Or are you that obsessed with having the last word on everything?
I have said that a comparison between a culture and an ideology is more reasonable than a comparison between a culture and a continent full of cultures. You claim this is "always bringing Marxism up", and is akin to listening to a FOX News show.
If you would be so kind, please name the show. I would love to see it.
You seem to have become more sensible, and appear ready to acknowledge that "Europeans" are not a homogeneous cultural entity. You mention the Spanish as a starting point ...
Alright. Go back to sucking glenn beck's dicks and jack off to how much you like to ascribe the world's ills to marxism. You defend European colonialism so it's obvious you are nothing more than a far right wing piece of shit. Trust me, you are far closer to Hitler than any of the non-white races you like to bash and defend of their exploitation.
@silverbackman Not at all. The world's ills well precede Marxism, and will still be with us once this absurd historical hiccup that is the Marxist religion finally enters the dustbin of history. But Marxism does relate to the topic at hand - first as a better Western comparisive to Aztec cruelty, and also as an explanation for why some people might try to portray the "Assyrians of Mezoamerica" as benign.
I'm explaining why someone like you would be so ignorant, and so hostile when corrected.
Alright alright. Marxism is the devil. So go back to burning pictures of Karl Marx. You have no interest to have a rational discussion so like I said just stop.
@silverbackman Marxist theoretical systems inevitably degenerate into a ridiculous fantastical religion that promises a magical future utopia, so long as a steady flow of people are murdered. So also, coincidentally, does the Aztec religion. Both seem to have ended with furious neighbors and a quick collapse. Food for thought.
White devils this. Evil Europeans that. Bi doo doo doo. Bi daa daa daa.
Not once did I say white people or europeans were devils. You on the other hand. Blah blah blah marxism is all evil blah blah blah aztecs are pure evil blah blah blah mezoamericans have evil cultures blah blah blah.
1. An ideology that advocates mass murder in the name of social justice, autocracy in the name of democratic fairness, slave labour camps in the name of proletarian liberation, a rigid social caste system in the name of a classless society, and general social destitution in the name of material prosperity
1. An ideology that advocates mass murder in the name of social justice, autocracy in the name of democratic fairness, slave labour camps in the name of proletarian liberation, a rigid social caste system in the name of a classless society, and general social destitution in the name of material prosperity
Yup. You have no idea what you are talking about. You have never read a communist or socialist doctrine, and have a right wing agenda. I don't debate with with right wing wackos like you. In fact your comments are so silly and uneducated glenn beck rubbish that there's no point to try to correct you. But I will try once.
Communism is a future STATELESS, classless, society where all people are free to satisfy their needs and goals in life. Enough said.
"We do not want any other god than Germany itself. It is essential to have fanatical faith and hope and love in and for Germany." - Adolf Hitler
"Germany is at all times prepared to renounce offensive weapons if the rest of the world does the same. Germany is prepared to agree to any solemn pact of non-aggression because she does not think of attacking anybody but only of acquiring security." - Adolf Hitler
Hitler was an enemy of Christianity. Thousands of Christian inmates speak to that.
Those quotes don't attack anything about christianity. I mean really is that the best you can do? BTW, the vast majority of the german people, and his fabled "aryan" race were christian. So tell me neo-con, why didn't Hitler put almost everyone under his empire in gas chambers?
Let me guess. You believe god created the earth 6-10,000 years ago? And evolution is false. Just a guess, but I bet I guessed right.
(So as not to be ethnocentric, let me remind that Marxist is itself a decidely European social construct, one that rivals the practices of the Aztecs for ruthless beastiality and pitiless exploitation and cruelty.
The people of Europe are clearly no more immune to evil than were the Mezoamericans. Certainly the victims of Nazi death camps and Soviet gulags remain just as senselessly dead as the ritual sacrifices of the Aztecs.
Come on you fool. Aztecs had a brutal ritual no doubt. But don't compare a ritual that many ancient civilizations practiced to the mass murdering of hitler or stalin. Please stop making yourself look so un-educated. And stop this nazi connection to marxism, did you even know that hitler hated "marxists" as much as jews? Hitler is the epitome of conservationism. Although one difference from american conservatives, he was neither capitalist nor socialist. His ideology pointed to a mixed economy.
I am so sick of every Wikipedia scholar who thinks they know something about the Aztec calling them the "Mexica". That was just one tribe of the Aztec. There were the Tecpaneca and the Acolhua as well as the Mexica. If you were to call a Tecpanecatl or an Acolhuatl a Mexicatl as if they were one and the same, odds are they would be very offended by it.
I don't use the word tribe like that. I know good and well Tenochtitlan was the largest city in the world at the time. Perhaps a better term would be "people", but most people think of Native Americans as "tribes", so I use that to keep the terminology simple and to avoid drawn out explanations like this one. The info on my channel and you'll see.
@JesusManson323 And the Mongols were tribal too - although they had no great cities, tehir numbers exceeded that of the Aztecs.
Don't hide you ignorance of anthropology with Leftspeak insults. The Aztecs may have been talented builders, but they remained a primitive stone-age people with a well-deserved reputation for institutionalized savagery, even by Mezoamerican standards. Their enslaved "rivals" united to crush the Aztecs because they were anxious to be free of these cruel oppressors.
@JesusManson323 And not one of these things justifies the violent ceremonial removal of of human hearts from thousands of helpless victims. Which is why I wonder that, amongst a certain sort of mental midget ideologue, the atrocities of some groups are vilified, while those of others are either swept under the rug or equivocated about.
@DrCruel Modern scholars (like top dogs Ross Hassig and Michael Coe) have begun to question why Aztec sacrifice is so understated in Aztec art and only pronounced in Post-Conquest Spanish-commissioned manuscripts.
The modern thinking is starting to lean toward the idea that " massive Aztec sacrifices" was largely a Spanish propaganda myth. The reality was probably more in the lower digits, and not done out of torture (LIKE EUROPEANS LOVED TO DO), but a ceremonial "transmission to God".
@JesusManson323 For contemporary reference, the Marxists are comparable. They also invented an elaborate mythos to defend both their quest for absolute power and their traditional tendency towards mass killings. They are the only ideological faction in our contemporary era that can match the Aztec in the use of terror and mass murder in the name of solidifying a national order.
What the fuck are you talking about? First of all, there has never been a marxist "state" in our era. Do you even know what communism and marxism is? Please educate yourself before spouting nonsense. And besides, capitalism has killed as much, if not more, albeit directly and indirectly. Let's not forget the crimes of america and how they supported genocidal regimes.
@silverbackman Marxists were happy to proclaim the Bolshevik Soviet Empire as Marxist for decades - this includes the era when the USSR was ruled by Josef Stalin. States do not suddenly become non-Marxist simply because Marxists proclaim it as so, well after the fact, and for political convenience.
So also, the documented history of Aztec atrocities is not suddenly negated simply because it serves the interests of Marxist national socialists in Mexico. That's not how history works.
Can you define "marxism" please? Anyone can call themselves anything they want. I can go ahead and have a monarchy, and call it a republic or democracy. Fact is, stalinism is the least like what anything marx said. Not even a ridiculous "dictatorship of the proletariat" which I find to be a big flaw in marxist theory.
And yet again you keep bring up aztec issues with marxist national socialists. Your not making any sense.
@silverbackman Sure. From my entry in the Urban Dictionary -
Marxism:
1. An ideology that advocates mass murder in the name of social justice, autocracy in the name of democratic fairness, slave labour camps in the name of proletarian liberation, a rigid social caste system in the name of a classless society, and general social destitution in the name of material prosperity
@silverbackman Incidentally, I've noticed you have no complaints with the entries of JesusManson323 comparing Europeans with the Aztecs - your only objection was in the idea of viewing Marxism as "bad" because of its European roots. So it seems you are willing to accept comparisons between European and Aztec atrocities - so long as the practices of Marxists are not addressed. Indeed, you go so far as to claim that the Bolsheviks aren't even Marxists at all - quite the counterfactual revelation.
I didn't read all of Jesus's comments. And I would disagree with him concerning european vs aztec atrocities over the past 500 years. No matter how much you want to deny, no civilization in history has done as much harm to the world as Europe has. Look at the third world today. Isn't that enough evidence?
@silverbackman "Europe" isn't a civilization. It's a continent. As far as ideologies are concerned, the greatest killers of human beings within the last 200 years have been Leftists, invariably in the name of championing some variant of socialist ideology. The worst of these, by far, have been the Marxists.
Insofar as Marxism is a "European" ideology, one could make the claim that most atrocities came from "Europeans". Especially - most especially - in the Third World.
Europe is not considered a continent by modern geologists, uh your un-educated ramble is painful. Europe is a subcontinent, like India or Arabia, apart of the Eurasian continental plate.
European civilization = civilizations of europe. Come on is that so hard to figure out?
And you continue to spout bullshit and not define marxism. You haven't answered my questions, like the one concerning what marx defined communism to be. So you fail. Hard. Then again so do most "right wingers".
@silverbackman There is an intrinsic Aztec civilization. We can speak of it definitively. Atrocities attributable to the Aztecs are not the fault of the Arawak, let alone the Iriquois, yet both civilizations existed in North America.
Europe is a continent. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of separate European civilizations. So which specific European civilization do you speak of?
Like I said, Europe is not a continent, it doesn't even have its own continental shelf. It is apart of Eurasia. Anyways, if your too short-sighted to see, I'm obviously referring to European colonial empires. Is that really so hard to figure out?
The Iroquois and Arawak were far separated from each other. Comparing those two to Aztecs would not make any sense, just like comparing Europe to China does not make any sense. Or China to Arabia. Europe has some unifying features (eg christianity).
@silverbackman Um, look up "continent" and you will find Europe listed as one. And don't mock as "ignorant" people who are better educated than you.
I have very patiently answered your questions, despite your condescension and insults. Marx preached of a utopian state of communism that would evolve from socialist society - and essentially called for a violent world revolution to bring this about. Again, see my definition.
Being abusive and thick won't avail you. Facts remain facts.
I'm not being abusive, I'm lightheartedly teasing you because your so called "facts" sound like you got them from foxnews.
Europe is apart of what is referred to as the "original 7 continents". This definition has roots going back to the ancient Greeks, when it was thought that only a tiny land bridge connected Europe and Asia. Now a days, geologists do not pay attention to this ancient blunder.
And you still dodge the marxist question. Try again. What are the features of a communist society?
@silverbackman Europe is as much a continent as any other. This is not a matter of dispute. Look it up.
Again, communism as defined by Marxism and as it exists in practice are entirely different things. According to the Marxist religion, the communist society was supposed to be an ideal social order in which socially conscious members would have cast off class identity and lived with all property in common. In practice, communism is a form of totalitarian secular feudalism.
You don't even bother to make an effort to read what I say. I gave a quite clear geological explanation on why Europe is no longer considered a continent, and you ignored it. So I don't want to discuss that with you anymore.
Communism was never tried, idiot. You can't call a nation communist when they have classes, A STATE, a ruling class, and so on. Just like you can't call China a democracy because the people have no voice.
Please go back to school and educate yourself, moron.
1. An ideology that advocates mass murder in the name of social justice, autocracy in the name of democratic fairness, slave labour camps in the name of proletarian liberation, a rigid social caste system in the name of a classless society, and general social destitution in the name of material prosperity
2. Proto-Nazism
"Proto-Nazism", because Nazism essentially was derived from Marxism-Leninism - indeed as something of a reform.
My facts are exactly that. I learned them from a number of sources of scholarship on the subject, in part derived during my days as a wargame playtester and amateur historian. I would particularly suggest the works of Martin Malia in this regard.
If you must "tease lightheartedly", might I suggest you do so without resorting to the defense of Left fascism, mass murdering empires of Mezoamerica, or other dubious groups of people. Misrepresenting the facts is also considered poor form.
Fascism is a right wing philosophy, you fucktarded moron. I'm not going to try to debate this normally with you anymore, because you are too much of a far right wing nut.
And for the record. I never defended any crimes of any civilization. You on the other hand, jump to the defense of Cortez and European colonial empires. This also shows another thing. You are a big racist piece of shit. So stop responding to me, I don't want to debate with you anymore.
@silverbackman Fascism is a derivative of Marxist, and a tradition solidly within the tradition of the Left, you sanctimonious cretin. And every version of Marxism in practice thus far has been every bit as racist as Nazism. Most Marxists are racists too, as you have chosen to demonstrate for us.
This isn't a debate, and never was. You decided to defend the indefensible, and I have brought you to task for it. Sputtering in a fit of petulant fury for not having your way will gain you nothing.
Shut up. All you like to do is put words in people's mouths I didn't defend anyone you piece of shit. And wow, you must have your head deep up your ass if you think nazism came from marxism, LOL!!!!!!!!! Nazism came from Hitler, nazis hated marxists, and for the record I'm not marxist.
Just end it. You have demonstrated you have no respect for semantics, so just STFU and get out you racist bible nut! Go worship your bearded fantasy in the sky and stay out of real discussions.
@silverbackman Your scatalogical metaphors don't aid your cause. Neither does your petulance.
If you are going to be a pedant about any subject, whether anthropology or history or any other discipline, it would behoove you to learn something about what you're talking about first. You'd thus be more likely to avoid the embarrassing sort of situation you've conjured for yourself here.
Blah blah blah. Just shut up. I don't take bigots like you seriously, who deny facts, put words in people's mouths, and ultimately have a right wing agenda. Go spout your nonsense to someone who cares.
And btw, using a thesaurus to find big words to wow others doesn't help your case, you look like a total idiot the way you used the word "petulance".
@silverbackman Who shall we consider for our analysis of European culture then? The Gauls? The Jutes? The Wend? What uniting characteristic do they have? And why are we supposed to compare the violence of a plethora of unique cultures from some other continent to the atrocities of this single culture?
Marxists are much easier to work with as an identifiable set. Their atrocities are also well known (see "The Black Book of Communism"). Why can't we use them for comparative purposes instead?
Again, is this really so hard to understand? Gauls? Lol! Was it the Gauls that had big colonial empires that raped the Earth? I mean come on, what is the main topic we have been talking about? Europe had many cultures, it was after all a subcontinent. But isn't it obvious we are referring to European colonial empires, like the Spanish? How much more obvious can it get?
You bring up marxism all the time because you have a right wing agenda. You still cannot tell me what communism is.
Your hopeless. Your nothing more than a fundamentalist creationist, and I've already wasted so much time discussing any of this with you. Please read some geology books and stop getting your info from fox news or other right wing sources.
You never said what communism is. Tell me idiot, what does communism say about the state? What eventually happens to the state? What happens to classes?
All you like to do is put words in people's mouths, and ignore what they have to say.
@JesusManson323 The narrative of Aztec sacrificial practices also derives from what other neighboring tribes had to say about them, notably the Tlaxcala. The reason most usually given for such practices is not only the terror aspect of it, but also a deliberate population control for the males of neighboring tribes. The overwhelming number of victims for these sacrifices were derived from "Flower War" captives, where the outcomes were fixed and the opponents stood no chance of survival.
Huh? All they like to talk about is how the aztec sacrificed and were brutal. Aztecs have been more vilified than the Spanish, even though the Spanish did far worse.
And btw. Nothing justifies human sacrifice. But at least the victims were given banquet and were honored for their sacrifice. While the Europeans would torture you until your execution. Honestly who is more un-civilized here? The dirty spanish never even took baths, like much of europe.
It's sad that we take all of our modern day achievements for granted, when in fact most of them were already done so by our ancient ancestors. The ancient chinese created the first Iron blast furnace nearly 2 millenia before the industrial revolution, and the Greeks created a fire siphon that could be considered the first flamethrower.
Why can nobody make a reconstruction of what Tenochtitlan looked like up close outside the Great Pyramid area? Do they just not know what it looked like?
@TheLastMexicatl The people who lived in Tenochitlan, who were said to have traded with the Maya, seem to have decided to not use a writing system.
Without their blueprints or some idea on how they moved and used the stones (as egypt left) it's hard to make a logical guess.
What i think is amazing is the pyramids are all perfectly alined with the cosmos without a writen math system. I guess they eyeballed it, but man, that was one hell of a design.
The people in Tenochtitlan, and in the other major Aztec cities, did in fact have a very primitive form of writing. It was good enough to send basic messages, but not for exact records. They did have a written math system as well. Dots, flags, and lines all represented different number amounts. What amazes me is that they did this in the middle of a lake! The Aztec had some of the biggest balls of any culture to even thing about doing that.
@TheLastMexicatl yeah, i thought you ment the city that was built next to Tenochtitlan like 700 years before that. The one that the Aztec's thought that the gods must have built. I was confused with the spelling >.>
You're thinking of Teotihuacan. It was built long before the Aztec came to the Valley of Mexico. They might have had a system of writing, but if so it has not survived, which is a pity.
The Aztecs did have writing and they had a syllabary, as is now being shown by researcher Alfonso Lacadena. They had phonetic elements to their "glyphs".
This was revealed at the 2009 Mesoamerican Conference in Los Angeles (May 2009), which I attended.
Wait a minute, you have Jesus in your name and still expect me to believe you went to an educational conference? Do you really mean you were in a seminar on how to cover up a child molestation and someone happened to bring up the Aztecs?
It's clear that you couldn't understand the juxtaposition of "Jesus" and "Manson" as a commentary. But then I guess you're the kind of person who doesn't understand things and then denies that other people attended conferences where they do understand things.
That's why people like me are in charge of people like you.
I didn't see the Manson attached at the end, how silly of me not to notice such a witty comment on the social standing of...well...whatever you believe it to convey to the general public. I just assumed everyone stopped trying to combine two words to make one whole pun in 93, my bad. Or should I have used a 3 dollar word as well? Conjecture, there you go.
p.s. if i told you what I did for a living, you wouldn't even believe me, but if you want to think your better, alright.
I enjoyed the program all 5 parts. I learned a lot about the Aztecs concerning their architecture and building techniques they were quite innovative and truly master builders.
I long for the time when Mexicans can grab my hands and feet and then the lovely knife can slide into my ribs and rip out my heart. I want to give my heart to the Mexican priests to show that I am not a racist.
Get an education you fucking idiot. All you're doing is repeating old stereotypes. You don't know a thing about Native history, culture and religions. So don't judge something you know nothing about by posting these ignorant comments.
mechica, mexicans descendants of mechica, ass we are the Aztecs,it does not mater if we are mix with other bloods we remain to still be the chosen ones ruler of this continent,Aztlan is were the mechica ass the Aztecs people was found to get to the promise land we are the chosen ones
30% of Mexico's population are still full blooded natives. You don't know a thing about Mexican anthropology or ethnography. So do yourself a favor and don't make ignorant uneducated comments. You'll only make yourself look like more of an idiot.
mestizo (Amerindian-Spanish) 60%, Amerindian or predominantly Amerindian 30%, white 9%, other 1%
From the CIA World Factbook. This is Mexico's population. This is an official source. That even a ignorant fool cannot deny
Second, the Native peoples in the North America, South America and the Caribbean are primarily of Mongoloid and Polynesian descent. Not Caucasoid. Unlike you, I've actually studied anthropology.
yeah but who decides all these blood quatum classification. I come from a family that appreance is from full blood Indigenous to very light skinned. I'm not a mestizo ,according to those statistics. I am people of here, those are my ancetors building tthat great city. Rape doesn't define a persons identity, rape of a nation is a scar, wound.
wow, this is really intresting. It's weird thinking another world was going on during the Black Plague. It weird thinking that things are happening around the world without your knowlege period, I mean....what are the people in Hamburg, Germany doing right now?
to say u are mexica means that u respect the native americans in mexico and respect the fact they sacreficed people after all they had been duing that for many millenia
Such a fascinating people
reinkaos82 2 months ago in playlist Empires - Maya - Aztec
talk bout unfriendly people
epicwinnerful 4 months ago
@44Unan no the Mexica are the aztecs
cosmicmofo 7 months ago
is Mexica pronounced like Mexico or is it pronounced like Mehhica?
sdurgefafd 10 months ago
@sdurgefafd meshica
rodamefo 4 months ago
@AguilaComandanteDGO ...cajamarka was where pizarro met atahualpa the first time. "Totally dishonorable like anything Europeans have ever done" like ANYTHING the europeans "EVER" done. i love it. good guys vrs bad guys? cannons, armored cavalary, and guns vrs clubs, slings, short bows. nah, that couldn't have had anything to do with it. incas spread their empire through military conquest, spanish spread their empire through military conquest, no sense demonizing an entire people.
BillKiernan 11 months ago
@AguilaComandanteDGO "Small pox caused 95% of our population to die" true. "Otherwise, the Spanish would have never ever touched us militarily with only 1000 men" really? wow. so you're telling me men with clubs, slings, and short bows would have continued to hold back armored units with cavalary and artillery? amazing! incas turned tail and ran early on not knowing what to even make of conquistadors. all it would have taken was reinforcements without the disease to finish the job.
BillKiernan 11 months ago
@AguilaComandanteDGO "universities" oh whatever. and yeah, european cities were disgusting. see that, admitting a flaw in one's ancestors, try it sometimes, keeps one rooted in reality.
BillKiernan 11 months ago
@AguilaComandanteDGO "since you monkeys learned how to navigate the seas" hahaha. yes, and those "monkeys" found your civilizations ages behind them technologically, and walked over your civilizations like grass. butthurt much? jealous? you still haven't recovered, your countries are still in third world purgatory. give me a fucking break. i mean, since we're being racist and all and labelling entire people, why not call a spade a spade? you were dragged kicking and screaming into modernity.
BillKiernan 11 months ago
thats robocop!!!
whatsgoingon07 1 year ago
Before we had the AZTECAS, now we have the ZETAS, ha ha ha
zoetheband 1 year ago
can you stop fighting just watch and stop spamming the chat
kail197 1 year ago
Judging a so utterly different culture like the aztecs from the view of modern ethics is completely useless, also comparing it with the vastly interlinked civilisations of the mediterranian and the middle east - the aztecs had a totally different background and a totally different environment. The comparison with the soviets and the third reich is simply stupid they were industrialised western states gone mad under single leaders
So please for sanitys sake stop comparing apples with potatoes!
Bahutsauvage 1 year ago
@Bahutsauvage The more things change the more things stay the same.
RatkoUSA 1 year ago
@AguilaComandanteDGO I don't have to show you that the Europeans, or anyone else, was "better" to make my case, asshole. The Aztecs were objectively nasty. Any other culture, regardless of their race, hair color, or other personal characteristics who behaves similarly would likewise justifyably be called "nasty" as well.
The Bolsheviks and Nazis made big buildings too. They also had a knack for complicated machinery. That didn't make their behavior, or their belief systems, any less odious.
DrCruel 1 year ago
@AguilaComandanteDGO Europeans tended to wipe out their nastier cousins. Apparently the natives of the Yucatan and Central America did the same thing too, as soon as they got the chance.
Thus, the Aztecs being the "Nazis of Mesoamerica". Or the Assyrians, if you like. And like European versions of cultures holding to similarly noxious views, they met a justly deserved bad end primarily at the hands of their outraged neighbors.
DrCruel 1 year ago
wow these were an amazeing people engnering giants!!!
zulfiqar501 1 year ago
RObocop!?
SuperGilberto1977 1 year ago
hygiene, its something a lot of people should learn about
kingbucho 1 year ago
@kingbucho yup
SuperGilberto1977 1 year ago
Why are peple bitching about aztec sacrifices it was so long ago and it was a ritual like most other civilizations all over the world had different types of rituals during that same time get a fucking life you haters instead of bitching about things that happened hundreds of years ago and if you"re just gonna talk shit then don't watch.
MegaBrneyes 1 year ago
Why did the Aztecs murder the daughter of the Tepinec tribe king in the first place? It seems revence and hatred was also part of their sacrifices.
Afrocanuk 1 year ago
I suppose it's a bit like trying to say that slaves of the Romans really liked being fed to animals, or forced to fight each other. There's certainly evidence for some of that amongst gladiators and Christians, and of course lots of evidence that the regional culture had much to do with it.
I'd suggest, however, that if Spartacus had Spanish guns and tactics to help him, the Romans would have fared much more poorly. I'd hardly feel much sympathy, nor would I blame the Spaniards for it..
DrCruel 1 year ago
Many cultures in Mesoamerica practiced sacrifice. It was not unknown to the subjects of the Aztec, many of whom practiced it themselves. They may not have liked being sacrificed by foreign overlords.
The Nahua people of today do not sacrifice people, they just conduct rituals like the Aztec commoners would, with prayers and incense and such.
TheLastMexicatl 1 year ago
@TheLastMexicatl The Aztecs were unique in using systematic human sacrifice as a tool to maintain control over their empire. And again, I remind that it was their beleagered neighbors and conquered peoples that ultimately did them in, and not the Aztecs.
They remind me most of the ancient Assyrians, who were similarly doe away with by a coalition of their neighbors. From all the evidence, the Aztecs were one nasty lot - a rather odd culture for the Marxists to try to build a race war around.
DrCruel 1 year ago
The Zapotec, Mixtec, and other groups within the Aztec Empire all practiced human sacrifice, even before Aztec conquest. Even the Classical Maya practiced it, but people shower them with praise. Granted some groups did not like the idea of being sacrificed by a foreigner, but they did not disapprove of sacrifice as a whole. The Aztec were not heros, nor were they villains. They were just people who did remarkable things, both good and bad.
TheLastMexicatl 1 year ago
@TheLastMexicatl "The French,British and Americans all killed civilians during World War II. The classical peoples of Europe were known for it, yet their societies were praiseworthy. Granted, the people of Auschwitz probably probably were not fond of being killed by the Nazis, but they did not disapprove of using lethal violence to fight back."
"The Nazis were not heros or villains, they just did remarkable things, etc."
And yet their indigenous neighbors wiped them out. I wonder why.
DrCruel 1 year ago
I'm done with you. You will disagree with anything I say, no matter what it is, because you have some fanatical hatred of the Aztec. Fuck you, goodbye.
TheLastMexicatl 1 year ago
@TheLastMexicatl The Aztec culture that the Spaniards encountered was indefensibly nasty. The other indigenous peoples that had to endure the Aztecs before the arrival of the Europeans apparently not only felt this way, but decided to do something rather dramatic about it as soon as they had the chance...
DrCruel 1 year ago
@TheLastMexicatl ... No amount of moral relativist whitewash will obliterate that rather obvious fact. Nor is anything in this historical narrative easily perverted into justification for the racist hatred the Marxists have been trying to foment against the "Anglos" of late.
So fuck you too. And have a nice day.
DrCruel 1 year ago
That's right, everything and everyone in the Aztec Empire was nasty, every single farmer, potter, and even the babies. They all went and killed anything and everything they could for their own sick amusment.
You make me sick. Rot in Mictlan you bastard.
TheLastMexicatl 1 year ago
@TheLastMexicatl Well that explains why you're offended. You read something, decide it means something else entirely, then riff on that. You're deluded. Fair enough.
In any case, I thought you were done. So why not take yourself and your fascist bullshit somewhere else then.
DrCruel 1 year ago
I don't understand how the aztecs grew so fast to go from being a tributary to being dominant.
desthmoneses 1 year ago
why people make sacrifice a big deal while other civilization did worts shit on people like these so call u.s.a that took land from native americans from mexicans ..brought eslavery and imperialism..and i dont see nobody saying anything about ....
hugocasarrubias 1 year ago
I am so sick of people thinking human sacrifice = evil. This was no different than a Christian or a Muslim dying in the name of their religion. Forget the image of a screaming teenage virgin dragged to her death at the hands of some crazy priest. This was mostly battle hardened warriors or volunteers being sacrificed. How many people today would volunteer to die for their religion? The Aztec had one up on us in that area.
TheLastMexicatl 1 year ago
@TheLastMexicatl haha you make that sound like a good thing?
BobbyxRevolution 1 year ago
Would you give up YOUR life for something you believe in? Unless the answer is yes, you have no room to criticize.
TheLastMexicatl 1 year ago
@TheLastMexicatl If our culture performed human sacrifice today would that be something to be proud of?
BobbyxRevolution 1 year ago
No, it would just be something that happened, not worthy of shame or pride.
TheLastMexicatl 1 year ago
@TheLastMexicatl The people who were murdered by the Aztecs were not "volunteers". They were captured males that were periodically culled during staged "flower Wars" to keep the populations of tribes subject to the Aztecs in control.
They did not treat their neighbors well at all. They enslaved and brutalized them. And when the chance came, these subject peoples rose up and annihilated this vicious empire and its people.
DrCruel 1 year ago
The people "culled in the Flower Wars" sacrificed captured Aztec warriors as well. The Aztec usually left the native leaders in charge after conquering another people. Even if what you said was true, that doesn't justify the slaughter of innocent Aztec people by the Spaniards. The craftsmen, women, elderly, the common people in general were the victims of horrors the likes of which they had never seen before the Spanish invasion.
TheLastMexicatl 1 year ago
@TheLastMexicatl I remind that the slaughter of the Aztecs was not, indeed could not possibly have been perpetrated by the handful of Spaniards under Cortez, but was rather the wrathful and quite understandable result of the Aztecs' "happy" subjects and slaves getting the upper hand, most notably the Tlaxcala.
There were plenty of horrors in Mezoamerica before the "evil" Europeans came. The Aztecs were most certainly one of them. That fact is far too well documented to ignore or lie away.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Tell that to the Aztec potter who died a slow death from smallpox, or the Aztec woman raped by a Texcaltecatl warrior after watching her husband die from a musket wound. Yes, they did some nasty stuff, but that is the nature of empire. That did not, however, justify the slaughter and brutalization of innocent Aztec people, like the women, children, and ordinary citizens of Tenochtitlan.
TheLastMexicatl 1 year ago
@TheLastMexicatl The Aztecs were not done in by muskets (of which, again, the Spaniards had but only a few), but by native weapons wielded by native peoples of Mezoamerica. And I cannot say whether a potter would prefer dying in bed from a disease, or violently, by having his heart torn out so as to amuse the Aztec aristocracy and clergy.
Regardless of whether you think the Aztecs deserved to be exterminated, their subject peoples had no problem deciding the matter. On them the matter rests.
DrCruel 1 year ago
You are aware that Aztec people still exist in Mexico, correct? They speak Nahuatl, and some even honor "saints" in ways similar to how the Aztec commoners honored the gods. Sacrifice was not simply to "amuse the clergy" as you put it, it was a religious duty taken very seriously. The priests weren't violent or bloodthirsty, as you seem to think. From what surviving records say, the common people held them in very high regard.
TheLastMexicatl 1 year ago
@TheLastMexicatl There's still quite a few descendants of the Aztecs, yes - although as far as I know, only the drug dealers still practice that perculiar "ritual". I also know that this business about the "Mexica" has more to do with Marxist identity politics than any historical accuracy or truth.
You're going to have a hard sell, to convince me that the Aztec subject peoples from whom human sacrifices were taken actually liked the practice. Surviving records say quite the opposite.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Certainly the Aztecs treated their subject tribes in a worse manner. But in the US, many tribes ceased to exist, destroyed by disease or the colonists. Only the Portuguese were comparatively worse man-for-man, especially in their treatment of African slaves (who they tended to work to death), but there were relatively few Portuguese in the New World, and theyu held their terrirories in Brazil intermittently.
If you want to make a case for "bad Europeans", best to work with the Yanks.
DrCruel 1 year ago
@DrCruel actually,the mexica(falsely called aztecs) treated there neighbors very well.read daily life of the aztecs
nicantlacaroots 1 year ago
The American colonials won their state as a result of a successful war against a coalition of France and native tribes, and fought their rebellion from Britain later, in part so as to have a free hand with the native tribes. For over a century thereafter, while Spanish and natives lived under teh ecomienda, and while British Canadians mainly left the natives alone, the Americans steadily made their way westward, "winning" the West through guile, colonization and war.
DrCruel 1 year ago
An organized governance does not necessarily imply atrocities to keep it going. The Hanseatic Merchantile League got along very well without having to kill lots of people, through ritualistic sacrifice or otherwise. In fact - if I may be so bold as to reveal my own biases - democratic governments tend to be the least nasty.
Incidentally, if we are going to be critics of "Western" cultures and their affairs with the American natives, the worst malefactors must be the Americans themselves.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Speaking of evolutionary theory, it would be interesting to mate Michael Savage and Janeane Garofalo, to see what sort of ideological mutant might emerge. But I am afraid it is not to be, so we shall just have to wait until the Carville/Matalin experiment bears fruit.
But of course, none of this has anything at all to do with Aztecs and their atrocity-based culture. Sorry, for I digress.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Janeane Garofalo is just a comedian. Not much of a political commenter. I would say a good example of leftist "fundamentalist" bullshit is Michael Moore, that guy has a left wing bias on most issues he talks about. As if using the federal government is a way to achieve socialism....federal government socialism = fail. Socialism can only work on a local level and it has to be 100% voluntary.
All civilizations are atrocity-based. The birth of civilization marks the start of slavery, war, and such
silverbackman 1 year ago
(As an aside, I have no idea how "creationism" plays into this, other than to say that every culture seems to have its own indigenous creation story, which always seems to be made up of equal parts of speculation, poetry and lunacy. I tend more towards an evolutionary theory myself, mainly because it seems to work better - but I'm certainly open to ideas.)
DrCruel 1 year ago
Ah ok. So your the Michael Savage type. Doesn't really change the fact that you have the mindset of a creationist.
You tend towards evolutionary ideas yourself?? What dos that mean? You only partly accept evolutionary theory, when it is the backbone of biology and accepted by every aspect of the scientific community? You are open to fucktarded ideas? Your open to dumb creationist logic?
My my, your even dumber the Savage.
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman I rather prefer Christopher Hitchens. I've listened to Mr. Savage on the radio, and although he has something of an amusing frenetic energy he says too may stupid things to be tolerable for long.
You do sound like someone who'd have a familiarity with the man. I suspect you'd prefer someone with better Leftists credentials, however. Janeane Garofalo perhaps?
DrCruel 1 year ago
I don't consider myself leftist or rightist. I don't take dogmatic sides on any issue, and many people who called themselves "liberal" I would have nothing to do with. I do prefer Noam Chomsky, though I don't agree with him on certain issues as well.
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman I wasn't around during the Permian extinction, nor was I ever acquainted with the dinosaurs personally, so I can't be for certain how these phenomena came into being. But I must admit to being more convinced by the gradual, DNA-based evolutionary theory than the "War in Heaven" proposition or the "World Flood" idea.
But, unlike thick-headed ideologues, I'm always open to new ideas. I'd need to see the evidence, of course. For example, a dinosaur saddle or two.
DrCruel 1 year ago
It's fine being open to ideas. But being open to pure insanity is another thing, which is what creationism is. As far as I have seen, there is no alternative to evolution in the scientific community. It's such a foundational basis for biology that it makes you wonder how creationists can ignore this fact.
silverbackman 1 year ago
Here too is why Marxism continues to "pop up" - for it is Marxist "scholars" who consistently misrepresent this history, and who seem to be keen on promoting a Mexica identity that is at once violent and racist against Europeans. Thus why such Marxist "scholars" so consistently make the same deliberate error of defining "Europeanism" as a culture and ideology of racism, persecution, conquest and mass murder - while trying to deny that the Aztecs themselves practiced anything of the sort.
DrCruel 1 year ago
This will hopefully be my last response to your idiocracy. So I will summarize this for you one last time.
1. Communism is a future, STATELESS, classless society where the means of production are controlled by the community as a whole, where all work is shared, and where all ownership is shared.
2. No one denies whatever brutal practices were carried out by civilizations of any type, not only Aztecs but others too. It is quite obvious though that you can't compare european colonialism to that.
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman Ah. So the sheen of "lighthearted banter" has been cast aside. Fair enough. As for whether this is your last attempt at obfuscation, that is your affair.
1. Our future is moved by variables and forces of great range. It is indeed a fool that claims to prognosticate on affairs he has little grasp of. But history is what it is. It happens, and the truth of it does not change throughout the ages.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Ok. And pigs can fly. So if you like to change the definitions of words from their original meaning, go right ahead. I'm not going to take part in it.
It's still lighthearted, but you are what you are.
silverbackman 1 year ago
2. The Aztecs were brutal, repressive imperialists. The Spanish role in their downfall was to act as a rally point for neighboring tribes that had endured the most ugly persecution, most notably the Tlaxcala. So for tmost tribes in Mexico outside of the Aztecs, Spainish "colonialism" was something to be celebrated.
That may fly in the fact of Marxist predictions, but then Marxism is more mysticism than science so that's to be expected. As for European colonialists, the worst were socialists.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Alright you made your point that pigs can fly. Move on.
The Aztec were as much repressive imperialists and the Romans and such civilization. They conquered, made an empire, and made those they conquered provinces of the empire. You can't compare that to european empires, who raped and pillaged the wealth of nations they conquered.
And there you go back to your fox news glenn beck marxism babble. Since you have demonstrated to have little knowledge about communism, I would bother there.
silverbackman 1 year ago
If we compare teh Spanish culture, with their Crusades against Muslims in the lands of Israel, with the Reconquesta, even with the Inquisition, we still have nothing to compare with the campaign of genocide and terror that was the Aztec policy. Only by pretending that Aztec claims themselves are exaggerated can one pretend that this was not the case. The native tribes that banded together, even today, carry an oral tradition that speaks to a view of Aztec culture that is altogether monstrous.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Ok. Keep ignoring what I said. And fine. If you want me to stroke your ego, then ok "the Aztecs were one of the most evil people ever to walk the earth. They killed 20,000 people a day in their sacrifices" *cough* declared impossible by historians *cough*, there are you happy now?
Should we rename Mexico too? Since after all, by your omission, Mexico is named after such an evil group of people.
silverbackman 1 year ago
The real losers of the Spanish conquest were not the Mezoamerican peoples in general, but mainly the great empires - the Aztecs and the Inca. The Inca people were an advanced and stable culture, and suffered badly at the hands of the Spanish - by the time of their fall, the Spanish were well established in "New Spain". But the Aztecs did not so fall. They were instead brought down by a coalition of their neighbors, the tribes that they had persecuted and oppressed for years.
DrCruel 1 year ago
The Spanish persecuted all the natives of the new world. Please stop. Your fucktarded right wing explanations are just that, fucktarded.
silverbackman 1 year ago
Very well then. Let us try to go beyond the "scholarship" of a Ward Churchill.
The Spanish did conquer the region known as Mexico, and very much more of the America besides. They also helped to bring Muslim-style slavery to the Americas (in part by buying slaves from African Muslim empires). They did not, however, treat the native Indian tribes nearly as bad as the Aztecs did. In fact, the Mexican population is made up predominently of people of native or mixed native heritage.
DrCruel 1 year ago
There you go again. Bringing up other non-white peoples, bashing them, and defending white exploitation. Any chance you could GTFO, I don't like debating with neo-nazi white supremacists. You trying to bash muslims now because you are a christian fundamentalist. Granted, chattel slavery was wide-spread in the Arab speaking world, as it was in so many other places in the world. The fact that you randomly bring them up now really shows it all. BTW, can you show me the evidence for creationism? LOL
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman I am not a Marxist racist. Historical analysis does not have to bow to the championing or vilification of racial groups, based on who my ideological faction happens to be siding with at the moment. Thus human sacrifice,a nd not Mezoamerican racial features, are what define the Aztecs as exploitative and cruel. Likewise the evil of Marxism derives from the hypocrisy and murderous cruelty of Marxists, and not a bit from the racial (or continental) origins of its creator.
DrCruel 1 year ago
This is all about your hatred for "marxism". So STFU. I don't take bigots like you seriously, who defend European atrocities and like to emphasize atrocities of non-white people. Socialism must mean pigs can fly too. Since you like to twist the original meanings of definitions.
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman My sentiments regarding Islam derive in part from my Armenian family's experience in the Ottoman empire during the Armenian genocide, in which most of my grandfather's and grandmother's families were killed. Of course, to a person who has tried to defend human sacrifice as a "minor cultural idiosyncracy", and who has tried to defend Marxism and the like (!), I doubt I could make you understand my issues with the faith. My problems with Islam certainly have no racial component.
DrCruel 1 year ago
And when the christians committed their genocides, that for some reason does not matter. And while you continue to put words in my mouth, I won't take any of your psuedo-babble seriously. The fact that your saying that I'm defending human sacrifice says it all, when not one of my statements hint at this. So go back to your creationist brothers and stop this nonsense.
So just stop. Or are you that obsessed with having the last word on everything?
silverbackman 1 year ago
I have said that a comparison between a culture and an ideology is more reasonable than a comparison between a culture and a continent full of cultures. You claim this is "always bringing Marxism up", and is akin to listening to a FOX News show.
If you would be so kind, please name the show. I would love to see it.
You seem to have become more sensible, and appear ready to acknowledge that "Europeans" are not a homogeneous cultural entity. You mention the Spanish as a starting point ...
DrCruel 1 year ago
Alright. Go back to sucking glenn beck's dicks and jack off to how much you like to ascribe the world's ills to marxism. You defend European colonialism so it's obvious you are nothing more than a far right wing piece of shit. Trust me, you are far closer to Hitler than any of the non-white races you like to bash and defend of their exploitation.
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman Not at all. The world's ills well precede Marxism, and will still be with us once this absurd historical hiccup that is the Marxist religion finally enters the dustbin of history. But Marxism does relate to the topic at hand - first as a better Western comparisive to Aztec cruelty, and also as an explanation for why some people might try to portray the "Assyrians of Mezoamerica" as benign.
I'm explaining why someone like you would be so ignorant, and so hostile when corrected.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Alright alright. Marxism is the devil. So go back to burning pictures of Karl Marx. You have no interest to have a rational discussion so like I said just stop.
Marx this marx that. Blah blah blah.
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman Marxist theoretical systems inevitably degenerate into a ridiculous fantastical religion that promises a magical future utopia, so long as a steady flow of people are murdered. So also, coincidentally, does the Aztec religion. Both seem to have ended with furious neighbors and a quick collapse. Food for thought.
White devils this. Evil Europeans that. Bi doo doo doo. Bi daa daa daa.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Not once did I say white people or europeans were devils. You on the other hand. Blah blah blah marxism is all evil blah blah blah aztecs are pure evil blah blah blah mezoamericans have evil cultures blah blah blah.
silverbackman 1 year ago
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Once more then -
Marxism:
1. An ideology that advocates mass murder in the name of social justice, autocracy in the name of democratic fairness, slave labour camps in the name of proletarian liberation, a rigid social caste system in the name of a classless society, and general social destitution in the name of material prosperity
2. Proto-Nazism
DrCruel 1 year ago
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Once more then:
Marxism:
1. An ideology that advocates mass murder in the name of social justice, autocracy in the name of democratic fairness, slave labour camps in the name of proletarian liberation, a rigid social caste system in the name of a classless society, and general social destitution in the name of material prosperity
2. Proto-Nazism
DrCruel 1 year ago
Yup. You have no idea what you are talking about. You have never read a communist or socialist doctrine, and have a right wing agenda. I don't debate with with right wing wackos like you. In fact your comments are so silly and uneducated glenn beck rubbish that there's no point to try to correct you. But I will try once.
Communism is a future STATELESS, classless, society where all people are free to satisfy their needs and goals in life. Enough said.
silverbackman 1 year ago
"We do not want any other god than Germany itself. It is essential to have fanatical faith and hope and love in and for Germany." - Adolf Hitler
"Germany is at all times prepared to renounce offensive weapons if the rest of the world does the same. Germany is prepared to agree to any solemn pact of non-aggression because she does not think of attacking anybody but only of acquiring security." - Adolf Hitler
Hitler was an enemy of Christianity. Thousands of Christian inmates speak to that.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Those quotes don't attack anything about christianity. I mean really is that the best you can do? BTW, the vast majority of the german people, and his fabled "aryan" race were christian. So tell me neo-con, why didn't Hitler put almost everyone under his empire in gas chambers?
Let me guess. You believe god created the earth 6-10,000 years ago? And evolution is false. Just a guess, but I bet I guessed right.
silverbackman 1 year ago
(So as not to be ethnocentric, let me remind that Marxist is itself a decidely European social construct, one that rivals the practices of the Aztecs for ruthless beastiality and pitiless exploitation and cruelty.
The people of Europe are clearly no more immune to evil than were the Mezoamericans. Certainly the victims of Nazi death camps and Soviet gulags remain just as senselessly dead as the ritual sacrifices of the Aztecs.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Come on you fool. Aztecs had a brutal ritual no doubt. But don't compare a ritual that many ancient civilizations practiced to the mass murdering of hitler or stalin. Please stop making yourself look so un-educated. And stop this nazi connection to marxism, did you even know that hitler hated "marxists" as much as jews? Hitler is the epitome of conservationism. Although one difference from american conservatives, he was neither capitalist nor socialist. His ideology pointed to a mixed economy.
silverbackman 1 year ago
God smites the Aztecs for their heinous sins
patfealy 2 years ago
I am so sick of every Wikipedia scholar who thinks they know something about the Aztec calling them the "Mexica". That was just one tribe of the Aztec. There were the Tecpaneca and the Acolhua as well as the Mexica. If you were to call a Tecpanecatl or an Acolhuatl a Mexicatl as if they were one and the same, odds are they would be very offended by it.
TheLastMexicatl 2 years ago
@TheLastMexicatl
The Mexica were not a "tribe" as you put it. Their city of Tenochtitlan had 350,000 people (larger than London at that time with 80,000).
If the Mexica were a tribe, then I guess London was a tribe, the ancient Greeks were tribes, and the Romans were tribes.
This is very Eurocentric (racist, demeaning) language we have been taught to use.
JesusManson323 1 year ago
I don't use the word tribe like that. I know good and well Tenochtitlan was the largest city in the world at the time. Perhaps a better term would be "people", but most people think of Native Americans as "tribes", so I use that to keep the terminology simple and to avoid drawn out explanations like this one. The info on my channel and you'll see.
TheLastMexicatl 1 year ago
@JesusManson323 And the Mongols were tribal too - although they had no great cities, tehir numbers exceeded that of the Aztecs.
Don't hide you ignorance of anthropology with Leftspeak insults. The Aztecs may have been talented builders, but they remained a primitive stone-age people with a well-deserved reputation for institutionalized savagery, even by Mezoamerican standards. Their enslaved "rivals" united to crush the Aztecs because they were anxious to be free of these cruel oppressors.
DrCruel 1 year ago
@DrCruel This isn't a Rush Limbaugh show you mental midget.
Let's talk about European institutionalized savagery:
1) Burning women alive across Europe in the name of Jesus
2) Greeks practicing anal sex on boys
3) The Inquisition that killed and tortured freethinkers all over Europe
4) Beheading political enemies and placing their impaled heads on the London Bridge
5) Slavery of Europeans, selling European slaves to Arabs
6) Genocide of Jews
JesusManson323 1 year ago
@JesusManson323 And not one of these things justifies the violent ceremonial removal of of human hearts from thousands of helpless victims. Which is why I wonder that, amongst a certain sort of mental midget ideologue, the atrocities of some groups are vilified, while those of others are either swept under the rug or equivocated about.
DrCruel 1 year ago
@DrCruel Modern scholars (like top dogs Ross Hassig and Michael Coe) have begun to question why Aztec sacrifice is so understated in Aztec art and only pronounced in Post-Conquest Spanish-commissioned manuscripts.
The modern thinking is starting to lean toward the idea that " massive Aztec sacrifices" was largely a Spanish propaganda myth. The reality was probably more in the lower digits, and not done out of torture (LIKE EUROPEANS LOVED TO DO), but a ceremonial "transmission to God".
JesusManson323 1 year ago
@JesusManson323 For contemporary reference, the Marxists are comparable. They also invented an elaborate mythos to defend both their quest for absolute power and their traditional tendency towards mass killings. They are the only ideological faction in our contemporary era that can match the Aztec in the use of terror and mass murder in the name of solidifying a national order.
DrCruel 1 year ago
What the fuck are you talking about? First of all, there has never been a marxist "state" in our era. Do you even know what communism and marxism is? Please educate yourself before spouting nonsense. And besides, capitalism has killed as much, if not more, albeit directly and indirectly. Let's not forget the crimes of america and how they supported genocidal regimes.
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman Marxists were happy to proclaim the Bolshevik Soviet Empire as Marxist for decades - this includes the era when the USSR was ruled by Josef Stalin. States do not suddenly become non-Marxist simply because Marxists proclaim it as so, well after the fact, and for political convenience.
So also, the documented history of Aztec atrocities is not suddenly negated simply because it serves the interests of Marxist national socialists in Mexico. That's not how history works.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Can you define "marxism" please? Anyone can call themselves anything they want. I can go ahead and have a monarchy, and call it a republic or democracy. Fact is, stalinism is the least like what anything marx said. Not even a ridiculous "dictatorship of the proletariat" which I find to be a big flaw in marxist theory.
And yet again you keep bring up aztec issues with marxist national socialists. Your not making any sense.
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman Sure. From my entry in the Urban Dictionary -
Marxism:
1. An ideology that advocates mass murder in the name of social justice, autocracy in the name of democratic fairness, slave labour camps in the name of proletarian liberation, a rigid social caste system in the name of a classless society, and general social destitution in the name of material prosperity
2. A proto-Nazi
DrCruel 1 year ago
@silverbackman Incidentally, I've noticed you have no complaints with the entries of JesusManson323 comparing Europeans with the Aztecs - your only objection was in the idea of viewing Marxism as "bad" because of its European roots. So it seems you are willing to accept comparisons between European and Aztec atrocities - so long as the practices of Marxists are not addressed. Indeed, you go so far as to claim that the Bolsheviks aren't even Marxists at all - quite the counterfactual revelation.
DrCruel 1 year ago
I didn't read all of Jesus's comments. And I would disagree with him concerning european vs aztec atrocities over the past 500 years. No matter how much you want to deny, no civilization in history has done as much harm to the world as Europe has. Look at the third world today. Isn't that enough evidence?
And again, define "marxism".
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman "Europe" isn't a civilization. It's a continent. As far as ideologies are concerned, the greatest killers of human beings within the last 200 years have been Leftists, invariably in the name of championing some variant of socialist ideology. The worst of these, by far, have been the Marxists.
Insofar as Marxism is a "European" ideology, one could make the claim that most atrocities came from "Europeans". Especially - most especially - in the Third World.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Europe is not considered a continent by modern geologists, uh your un-educated ramble is painful. Europe is a subcontinent, like India or Arabia, apart of the Eurasian continental plate.
European civilization = civilizations of europe. Come on is that so hard to figure out?
And you continue to spout bullshit and not define marxism. You haven't answered my questions, like the one concerning what marx defined communism to be. So you fail. Hard. Then again so do most "right wingers".
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman There is an intrinsic Aztec civilization. We can speak of it definitively. Atrocities attributable to the Aztecs are not the fault of the Arawak, let alone the Iriquois, yet both civilizations existed in North America.
Europe is a continent. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of separate European civilizations. So which specific European civilization do you speak of?
DrCruel 1 year ago
Like I said, Europe is not a continent, it doesn't even have its own continental shelf. It is apart of Eurasia. Anyways, if your too short-sighted to see, I'm obviously referring to European colonial empires. Is that really so hard to figure out?
The Iroquois and Arawak were far separated from each other. Comparing those two to Aztecs would not make any sense, just like comparing Europe to China does not make any sense. Or China to Arabia. Europe has some unifying features (eg christianity).
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman Um, look up "continent" and you will find Europe listed as one. And don't mock as "ignorant" people who are better educated than you.
I have very patiently answered your questions, despite your condescension and insults. Marx preached of a utopian state of communism that would evolve from socialist society - and essentially called for a violent world revolution to bring this about. Again, see my definition.
Being abusive and thick won't avail you. Facts remain facts.
DrCruel 1 year ago
I'm not being abusive, I'm lightheartedly teasing you because your so called "facts" sound like you got them from foxnews.
Europe is apart of what is referred to as the "original 7 continents". This definition has roots going back to the ancient Greeks, when it was thought that only a tiny land bridge connected Europe and Asia. Now a days, geologists do not pay attention to this ancient blunder.
And you still dodge the marxist question. Try again. What are the features of a communist society?
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman Europe is as much a continent as any other. This is not a matter of dispute. Look it up.
Again, communism as defined by Marxism and as it exists in practice are entirely different things. According to the Marxist religion, the communist society was supposed to be an ideal social order in which socially conscious members would have cast off class identity and lived with all property in common. In practice, communism is a form of totalitarian secular feudalism.
DrCruel 1 year ago
You don't even bother to make an effort to read what I say. I gave a quite clear geological explanation on why Europe is no longer considered a continent, and you ignored it. So I don't want to discuss that with you anymore.
Communism was never tried, idiot. You can't call a nation communist when they have classes, A STATE, a ruling class, and so on. Just like you can't call China a democracy because the people have no voice.
Please go back to school and educate yourself, moron.
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman Thus:
Marxism:
1. An ideology that advocates mass murder in the name of social justice, autocracy in the name of democratic fairness, slave labour camps in the name of proletarian liberation, a rigid social caste system in the name of a classless society, and general social destitution in the name of material prosperity
2. Proto-Nazism
"Proto-Nazism", because Nazism essentially was derived from Marxism-Leninism - indeed as something of a reform.
DrCruel 1 year ago
My facts are exactly that. I learned them from a number of sources of scholarship on the subject, in part derived during my days as a wargame playtester and amateur historian. I would particularly suggest the works of Martin Malia in this regard.
If you must "tease lightheartedly", might I suggest you do so without resorting to the defense of Left fascism, mass murdering empires of Mezoamerica, or other dubious groups of people. Misrepresenting the facts is also considered poor form.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Fascism is a right wing philosophy, you fucktarded moron. I'm not going to try to debate this normally with you anymore, because you are too much of a far right wing nut.
And for the record. I never defended any crimes of any civilization. You on the other hand, jump to the defense of Cortez and European colonial empires. This also shows another thing. You are a big racist piece of shit. So stop responding to me, I don't want to debate with you anymore.
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman Fascism is a derivative of Marxist, and a tradition solidly within the tradition of the Left, you sanctimonious cretin. And every version of Marxism in practice thus far has been every bit as racist as Nazism. Most Marxists are racists too, as you have chosen to demonstrate for us.
This isn't a debate, and never was. You decided to defend the indefensible, and I have brought you to task for it. Sputtering in a fit of petulant fury for not having your way will gain you nothing.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Shut up. All you like to do is put words in people's mouths I didn't defend anyone you piece of shit. And wow, you must have your head deep up your ass if you think nazism came from marxism, LOL!!!!!!!!! Nazism came from Hitler, nazis hated marxists, and for the record I'm not marxist.
Just end it. You have demonstrated you have no respect for semantics, so just STFU and get out you racist bible nut! Go worship your bearded fantasy in the sky and stay out of real discussions.
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman Your scatalogical metaphors don't aid your cause. Neither does your petulance.
If you are going to be a pedant about any subject, whether anthropology or history or any other discipline, it would behoove you to learn something about what you're talking about first. You'd thus be more likely to avoid the embarrassing sort of situation you've conjured for yourself here.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Blah blah blah. Just shut up. I don't take bigots like you seriously, who deny facts, put words in people's mouths, and ultimately have a right wing agenda. Go spout your nonsense to someone who cares.
And btw, using a thesaurus to find big words to wow others doesn't help your case, you look like a total idiot the way you used the word "petulance".
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman Who shall we consider for our analysis of European culture then? The Gauls? The Jutes? The Wend? What uniting characteristic do they have? And why are we supposed to compare the violence of a plethora of unique cultures from some other continent to the atrocities of this single culture?
Marxists are much easier to work with as an identifiable set. Their atrocities are also well known (see "The Black Book of Communism"). Why can't we use them for comparative purposes instead?
DrCruel 1 year ago
Again, is this really so hard to understand? Gauls? Lol! Was it the Gauls that had big colonial empires that raped the Earth? I mean come on, what is the main topic we have been talking about? Europe had many cultures, it was after all a subcontinent. But isn't it obvious we are referring to European colonial empires, like the Spanish? How much more obvious can it get?
You bring up marxism all the time because you have a right wing agenda. You still cannot tell me what communism is.
silverbackman 1 year ago
@silverbackman Europe is a continent, with many cultures. "Europeans" aren't a culture, but rather a set of peoples who live on a continent.
And yes, you are correct. Your comparison of "Europeans" to Aztecs is absolutely ridiculous. I am glad you've finally openly acknowledged that.
I told you what communism is. I even formally defined it for you. You've refused to accept that I've done so. That's not my problem.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Your hopeless. Your nothing more than a fundamentalist creationist, and I've already wasted so much time discussing any of this with you. Please read some geology books and stop getting your info from fox news or other right wing sources.
You never said what communism is. Tell me idiot, what does communism say about the state? What eventually happens to the state? What happens to classes?
All you like to do is put words in people's mouths, and ignore what they have to say.
silverbackman 1 year ago
@JesusManson323 The narrative of Aztec sacrificial practices also derives from what other neighboring tribes had to say about them, notably the Tlaxcala. The reason most usually given for such practices is not only the terror aspect of it, but also a deliberate population control for the males of neighboring tribes. The overwhelming number of victims for these sacrifices were derived from "Flower War" captives, where the outcomes were fixed and the opponents stood no chance of survival.
DrCruel 1 year ago
Amen. So many people like to overlook this.
silverbackman 1 year ago
Huh? All they like to talk about is how the aztec sacrificed and were brutal. Aztecs have been more vilified than the Spanish, even though the Spanish did far worse.
And btw. Nothing justifies human sacrifice. But at least the victims were given banquet and were honored for their sacrifice. While the Europeans would torture you until your execution. Honestly who is more un-civilized here? The dirty spanish never even took baths, like much of europe.
silverbackman 1 year ago
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0:12 What Does She Mean No Wheel The Aztec Calendar Is Round Like Wheels Idiot. You Don't Know Shit About The.
"Beautiful Aztec Culture"
MALOSO805X3 2 years ago
eh.
mongoose100989 2 years ago
holy jesus.
do u realize there are people who go to school and study this shit 8 10 15 hours a day every day 365 days a year?
mongoose100989 2 years ago
It's sad that we take all of our modern day achievements for granted, when in fact most of them were already done so by our ancient ancestors. The ancient chinese created the first Iron blast furnace nearly 2 millenia before the industrial revolution, and the Greeks created a fire siphon that could be considered the first flamethrower.
coltermegasxlr 2 years ago 2
Unfortunately the only leads we have are paintings but those aren't exactly blue prints.
TitanSubZero15 2 years ago
Why can nobody make a reconstruction of what Tenochtitlan looked like up close outside the Great Pyramid area? Do they just not know what it looked like?
TheLastMexicatl 2 years ago 2
@TheLastMexicatl The people who lived in Tenochitlan, who were said to have traded with the Maya, seem to have decided to not use a writing system.
Without their blueprints or some idea on how they moved and used the stones (as egypt left) it's hard to make a logical guess.
What i think is amazing is the pyramids are all perfectly alined with the cosmos without a writen math system. I guess they eyeballed it, but man, that was one hell of a design.
diedahero 2 years ago
The people in Tenochtitlan, and in the other major Aztec cities, did in fact have a very primitive form of writing. It was good enough to send basic messages, but not for exact records. They did have a written math system as well. Dots, flags, and lines all represented different number amounts. What amazes me is that they did this in the middle of a lake! The Aztec had some of the biggest balls of any culture to even thing about doing that.
TheLastMexicatl 2 years ago
@TheLastMexicatl yeah, i thought you ment the city that was built next to Tenochtitlan like 700 years before that. The one that the Aztec's thought that the gods must have built. I was confused with the spelling >.>
diedahero 2 years ago
You're thinking of Teotihuacan. It was built long before the Aztec came to the Valley of Mexico. They might have had a system of writing, but if so it has not survived, which is a pity.
TheLastMexicatl 2 years ago
@diedahero
The Aztecs did have writing and they had a syllabary, as is now being shown by researcher Alfonso Lacadena. They had phonetic elements to their "glyphs".
This was revealed at the 2009 Mesoamerican Conference in Los Angeles (May 2009), which I attended.
JesusManson323 2 years ago
@JesusManson323
Wait a minute, you have Jesus in your name and still expect me to believe you went to an educational conference? Do you really mean you were in a seminar on how to cover up a child molestation and someone happened to bring up the Aztecs?
diedahero 1 year ago
@diedahero
It's clear that you couldn't understand the juxtaposition of "Jesus" and "Manson" as a commentary. But then I guess you're the kind of person who doesn't understand things and then denies that other people attended conferences where they do understand things.
That's why people like me are in charge of people like you.
JesusManson323 1 year ago
@JesusManson323
I didn't see the Manson attached at the end, how silly of me not to notice such a witty comment on the social standing of...well...whatever you believe it to convey to the general public. I just assumed everyone stopped trying to combine two words to make one whole pun in 93, my bad. Or should I have used a 3 dollar word as well? Conjecture, there you go.
p.s. if i told you what I did for a living, you wouldn't even believe me, but if you want to think your better, alright.
diedahero 1 year ago
I enjoyed the program all 5 parts. I learned a lot about the Aztecs concerning their architecture and building techniques they were quite innovative and truly master builders.
whitewitchwares 3 years ago 5
In all countries and in all times there have been great achievements in science and societies.
The inescapable fact is that there is no high culture.
All times and lands have had barbarism, feudalism, war, hatred, cannibalism, religion and ego.
I've looked; and all times and places fall short of the ideal.
We are to live in peace with our world, our brothers and sisters and all living things.
Until we look within for that 'Great Society" we will never find it.
Peace to all.
nanderson1965 3 years ago 5
OK hippie.
who2486 2 years ago
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at least im not a beaner.
farthbag 3 years ago
but you are an americunt which is worst
xIIxGustavoxIIx 3 years ago
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Better than being a Mexi-cunt. =P
KnoxSUX 3 years ago
But that comment shows that you are a racist.
NahuaBoriqua 3 years ago 2
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How?
KnoxSUX 3 years ago
The fact that you are even asking that shows how ignorant you are. You look down at Mexicans and other minorities. That makes you a racist.
NahuaBoriqua 3 years ago
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The reason of which I am asking is to find out why you think I am "a racist". It makes my inquisitive, not racist.
------------------------------------------------------
Look at the comments on page two, one comment reads: "but you are an americunt which is worst".
Please, know what you're talking about before you pull the "racist" card.
KnoxSUX 3 years ago
@NahuaBoriqua
I long for the time when Mexicans can grab my hands and feet and then the lovely knife can slide into my ribs and rip out my heart. I want to give my heart to the Mexican priests to show that I am not a racist.
patfealy 2 years ago
@ patfealy
Get an education you fucking idiot. All you're doing is repeating old stereotypes. You don't know a thing about Native history, culture and religions. So don't judge something you know nothing about by posting these ignorant comments.
NahuaBoriqua 2 years ago
mechica, mexicans descendants of mechica, ass we are the Aztecs,it does not mater if we are mix with other bloods we remain to still be the chosen ones ruler of this continent,Aztlan is were the mechica ass the Aztecs people was found to get to the promise land we are the chosen ones
HEADQUARTERS2012 3 years ago 2
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Wrong, the Spanish killed over 95% of the natives, and bred them out of existence.
KnoxSUX 3 years ago
30% of Mexico's population are still full blooded natives. You don't know a thing about Mexican anthropology or ethnography. So do yourself a favor and don't make ignorant uneducated comments. You'll only make yourself look like more of an idiot.
NahuaBoriqua 3 years ago 9
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Do you know what it takes to be in that 30%?
I could go to Mexico and be considered a "native".
-----------------------
FYI:
Anthropology doesn't recognize ANY American Indian as a separate race; they are all Caucasoid.
KnoxSUX 3 years ago
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Ethnic groups:
mestizo (Amerindian-Spanish) 60%, Amerindian or predominantly Amerindian 30%, white 9%, other 1%
From the CIA World Factbook. This is Mexico's population. This is an official source. That even a ignorant fool cannot deny
Second, the Native peoples in the North America, South America and the Caribbean are primarily of Mongoloid and Polynesian descent. Not Caucasoid. Unlike you, I've actually studied anthropology.
NahuaBoriqua 3 years ago 14
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Again, the CIA World Fact Book is a SURVEY.
I, myself has worked on it.
Before you go and claim you're a all-knowing airchair anthropologist, you should at least know what you're talking about.
KnoxSUX 3 years ago
yeah but who decides all these blood quatum classification. I come from a family that appreance is from full blood Indigenous to very light skinned. I'm not a mestizo ,according to those statistics. I am people of here, those are my ancetors building tthat great city. Rape doesn't define a persons identity, rape of a nation is a scar, wound.
piercedheart1492 2 years ago
wow, this is really intresting. It's weird thinking another world was going on during the Black Plague. It weird thinking that things are happening around the world without your knowlege period, I mean....what are the people in Hamburg, Germany doing right now?
megHan24689 3 years ago 13
to say u are mexica means that u respect the native americans in mexico and respect the fact they sacreficed people after all they had been duing that for many millenia
loppezjo 3 years ago
the 84,000 beingg sacrificed in four is false
oscaradrianvazquez 4 years ago