@TheCrazyCello Your and his points were ignored because they did not pertain to my original point of this being a rather dull and unimaginative thread, as are most of Weber's works which is why he is hardly programmed today.
I am correct, and I am sorry you interpret that as being unpleasant.
@porkyfry Ah, I just looked at your profile and notice you are American. Well this explains your confusion between subjective opinion and objective fact. Also your unbridled arrogance and obnoxiousness, however it doesn't account for your narrow minded and somewhat 19th century taste in programming. You ignored my comments because they are entirely valid and you can't actually engage in a serious discussion on musical appreciation, merely put down others with belittling arrogant comments.
1- No memorable, singable melody after hearing and performing it
2- No memorable climax
3- No memorable orchestration techniques
So, in short, tries to be epic but is very unmemorable. Does that help? And if the number of recordings of this work on youtube (1) is any indication that others agree with me... then... case and point.
I would suggest those are opinions rather than facts. The first theme is not "singable" purely because of its speed and angular shape - which for it's time would have been very technically demanding.
The second theme however is quite memorable and singable, in my opinion. Weber's entire orchestral technique is innovative and entirely new and bold for it's time. Perhaps it doesn't sound "memorable" now, because of the advances it inspired for other composers,
but the brass chorus for the recapitulation of the 2nd theme in particular is very new and innovative. To use a diatonic melody instrument (natural trumpet) and then add chromatic harmonies underneath with slide instruments (trombones) and stopped horns is not something that had been done before, nor would be done again after the invention of the valve.
Besides, since when has the popularity of a work indicated its quality? If that were the case we should forsake all classical music for Gaga.
@TheCrazyCello You are right, 1:29 is such an incredible moment in music: oboe solo with arpeggiated string accompaniment, no one had been doing this befor- Oh, wait... Beethoven. Beethoven is the reason Weber is overshadowed, because it was Beethoven who inspired as many future composers as those who inspired him. Weber's music is nothing more than an echo to that of Beethoven's because that's exactly how he composed and is remembered.
The way I see it: Beethoven and Weber inhabit different sphere. Beethoven is the humanist - his music is robust, visceral, at times brutal, concerned with the struggles and triumphs of the human spirit. Weber is delicate, ephemeral, he deals with the supernatural, with light and shade and nuance. They worked concurrently and both together had a huge influence on later composers. Just look at Weber's influence on Berlioz, Wagner, and the sound world
of the late Romantic. I'm not dismissing Beethoven's enormous impact at all, but I think it's unfair for you to dismiss Weber as an echo of Beethoven. Particularly when he was writing music which was a) completely different from Beethoven's and b) completely new at the same time. Even if the quality is not as consistant, he can still be credited with being original and together with Beethoven, forging a new path in music. Especially (where Beethoven failed) in Romantic German opera.
@porkyfry You are not the only professional instrumentalist on Youtube, nor on this thread. I see you ignored my very valid points regarding the stylistic differences between Beethoven and Weber which make a direct comparison of the quality of each's work and contribution untenable at best, instead you just attacked someone else. Please learn some humility and lose the attitude before posting comments on my uploads again. Even if you are correct, it is no excuse for being unpleasant.
@TheCrazyCello Your and his points were ignored because they did not pertain to my original point of this being a rather dull and unimaginative thread, as are most of Weber's works which is why he is hardly programmed today.
I am correct, and I am sorry you interpret that as being unpleasant.
porkyfry 3 months ago
@porkyfry Ah, I just looked at your profile and notice you are American. Well this explains your confusion between subjective opinion and objective fact. Also your unbridled arrogance and obnoxiousness, however it doesn't account for your narrow minded and somewhat 19th century taste in programming. You ignored my comments because they are entirely valid and you can't actually engage in a serious discussion on musical appreciation, merely put down others with belittling arrogant comments.
TheCrazyCello 3 months ago
One of the best interpretations of this ouverture, which is - in my opinion - one of the greatest works that Weber composed at all.
berniewa2008 1 year ago
An OK work... but it tries too hard lol.
porkyfry 1 year ago
@porkyfry Er - what exactly is that supposed to mean, other than sounding vaguely pretentious?
TheCrazyCello 1 year ago
@TheCrazyCello
1- No memorable, singable melody after hearing and performing it
2- No memorable climax
3- No memorable orchestration techniques
So, in short, tries to be epic but is very unmemorable. Does that help? And if the number of recordings of this work on youtube (1) is any indication that others agree with me... then... case and point.
porkyfry 1 year ago
@porkyfry
I would suggest those are opinions rather than facts. The first theme is not "singable" purely because of its speed and angular shape - which for it's time would have been very technically demanding.
The second theme however is quite memorable and singable, in my opinion. Weber's entire orchestral technique is innovative and entirely new and bold for it's time. Perhaps it doesn't sound "memorable" now, because of the advances it inspired for other composers,
TheCrazyCello 1 year ago
but the brass chorus for the recapitulation of the 2nd theme in particular is very new and innovative. To use a diatonic melody instrument (natural trumpet) and then add chromatic harmonies underneath with slide instruments (trombones) and stopped horns is not something that had been done before, nor would be done again after the invention of the valve.
Besides, since when has the popularity of a work indicated its quality? If that were the case we should forsake all classical music for Gaga.
TheCrazyCello 1 year ago
Comment removed
porkyfry 1 year ago
@TheCrazyCello You are right, 1:29 is such an incredible moment in music: oboe solo with arpeggiated string accompaniment, no one had been doing this befor- Oh, wait... Beethoven. Beethoven is the reason Weber is overshadowed, because it was Beethoven who inspired as many future composers as those who inspired him. Weber's music is nothing more than an echo to that of Beethoven's because that's exactly how he composed and is remembered.
porkyfry 1 year ago
@porkyfry There's no need to be sarcastic :S
The way I see it: Beethoven and Weber inhabit different sphere. Beethoven is the humanist - his music is robust, visceral, at times brutal, concerned with the struggles and triumphs of the human spirit. Weber is delicate, ephemeral, he deals with the supernatural, with light and shade and nuance. They worked concurrently and both together had a huge influence on later composers. Just look at Weber's influence on Berlioz, Wagner, and the sound world
TheCrazyCello 1 year ago
of the late Romantic. I'm not dismissing Beethoven's enormous impact at all, but I think it's unfair for you to dismiss Weber as an echo of Beethoven. Particularly when he was writing music which was a) completely different from Beethoven's and b) completely new at the same time. Even if the quality is not as consistant, he can still be credited with being original and together with Beethoven, forging a new path in music. Especially (where Beethoven failed) in Romantic German opera.
TheCrazyCello 1 year ago
Comment removed
MrConductor1984 3 months ago
@MrConductor1984 Your points are lacking and unrelated, but I'll play along for fun.
Singable melodies in his 7th, that's a toughy... oh wait, THE ENTIRE 2ND MOVEMENT.
Fidelio Overture has two memorable climaxes, the first about half way through and the 2nd at the end.
No one invents anything in music, but merely adds their own take to what has been done before.
Yes, a professional violinist who has played every work mentioned on this thread is the ignorant one.
Do some studying. lol.
porkyfry 3 months ago
@porkyfry You are not the only professional instrumentalist on Youtube, nor on this thread. I see you ignored my very valid points regarding the stylistic differences between Beethoven and Weber which make a direct comparison of the quality of each's work and contribution untenable at best, instead you just attacked someone else. Please learn some humility and lose the attitude before posting comments on my uploads again. Even if you are correct, it is no excuse for being unpleasant.
TheCrazyCello 3 months ago
Comment removed
MrConductor1984 2 months ago
very inspiring
betoperdido 1 year ago
Ein überraschendes Stück Musik......
pelikaaann 2 years ago