#175 - 1st peek at run time test rig

[Bobbymitchell10]

so is this engine running on gasoline and hydrogen or just hydrojen

[fxrocket]

Have you adjusted the timing of the motor?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Results from two full sets of data

No alternator load, no HHO, run times = x

25A alternator load, no HHO, run times = 0.86x

25A load, HHO fed back to carb, RT = 0.94x

All the energy used to create the HHO was taken mechanically from the motor. There was no adjustment for gasoline fuel mixture during these tests. Gasoline engines can definitely run MUCH leaner in the presence of HHO without damage, predetonation or increased emissions which is where the net efficiency gains will come from!

[ZeroFossilFuel]

I am working on a carb now that will allow me to adjust high speed run mixture for future testing. I will also be recording exhaust temps to prove I'm not running too lean, or burning valves. It will further prove that more of the heat energy is being translated to mechanical energy at the crankshaft rather than going out the exhaust as waste heat.

[1dannon7]

Zero, It has been six months, I thought you were going to post results after you installed the adjustable carb. When can we expect the results?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

When the garage thaws out. ;-)

[diymania]

This engine was running off gasoline in the tank only, if it was running on hho, it should have instantly stalled every time he pulled the nozzle out.

[Spiritualease]

What the fuck. Build a test rig, post the video, let 43 days go by without announcing any test data. What was the point in building the rig?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Results posted.

[gmflikha]

hello Zero!!! your my idol you know? but im disapointed for this video! The engine was running by Gas fuel and not by the Hydrogen... sad Zero.......

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Sorry to disappoint you. It has been pretty clearly show that the energy required to produce the HHO using brute force electrolysis is more than it can return. There is really not much point in running 100 percent HHO. enough people have done it already to show that it can be done. right now we need to show that it can increase the total system efficiency with energy taken from that same system. Much the same way the turbocharger as horsepower to an engine by taking horsepower to run it.

[1dannon7]

This video was posted a month ago. When we we see some test results?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Check my latest comment to this video.

[novachevyguy]

why did he remove his comment...?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Because he came to his senses and realized what a jerk he was being.

[novachevyguy]

he who zero?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

kdkinen above

[Buyerchoice]

I like this setup because it is the same in a car. When can we see a video of run time with gasoline and run time with HHO assist?

[novachevyguy]

I'm sorry zero if i have offended you , but as far as i could tell - you really didn't make that fact clear , AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO POST IN ALL CAPS , i'm not a dim-wit...

but all in all i am still very impressed with your other projects....

[BudsMoKing]

you also could have tried reading previous comments and you would have avoiding asking the same silly question that has already been asked several times...

[novachevyguy]

what is this supposed to prove...?

@zero.... i am sorry that i have to say this but, i am not really that impressed - and i will tell you why..

there is one very importatant thing you forgot to do before shooting this video , you forgot to remove the gas tank from the engine...! so.. how are we viewers supposed to know or believe that there is no gasoline in that tank...?

my suggestion..? , re-shoot the video - only this time with the tank removed...

[ZeroFossilFuel]

I would except for one thing...

I'M NOT TRYING TO DEMONSTRATE RUNNING THIS ENGINE ON 100% HHO!

What part of that did I not make clear?

[lynel1985]

Z's test rig is not to speculate on a 100%hho engine, its to have repeatable/usable data on the debate that if it is possible to get more usable energy out of a system then you use to create it. He tried this earlier in another video with a graduated cylinder as a gas tank and a stock watch. That old setup was very inefficient and energy out VS energy is was nigh on 1:1. This will give more accrate results. Ultimately an efficient hho engine will be different in design to a petrol 4stroke

[vonkwald]

Hello Z. I would want ask you if the motor works to 100% with hho?

[pjckac1]

It looks like you are using HHO gas to supplement the gasoline that was in your gasoline tank on your motor. The HHO gas that you are using was a very small amount to see a difference in the performance. You seen the demonstration on my 2006 Chevrolet HHR automobile using my HHO Welding Machine how it made an improvement engine performance after I leaned out fuel injectors supplying the gasoline.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

The 1.7 liters per minute of HHO that I'm injecting relative to the small size of the engine that I am injecting it into is a much higher percentage than the amount of HHO you are injecting into a much larger displacement engine. You would have to inject well over 100l per minute to even come close to the ratios that I am working with. I do have another carburetor that allows complete flexibility to adjust the fuel mixture that I will be retrofitting to this engine to conduct similar tests.

[lynel1985]

Hey zero. I know it all comes down to money but could persuade someone to meet up with you with a wideband o2 sensor? this way you could work out a function of how much you can lean the mixture out/compensate with hho. Exhaust temp and gas composition would also be knowledge to have to really see what the hho is doing from an emissions point of view. Ever thought of a deisel generator? with afr's twice as lean as petrol; 1.7L off hho will represnet more of the fuel load

[ZeroFossilFuel]

That's a great idea but how would you mount it in the exhaust of a small engine like this? A custom exhaust extender from black pipe and a "T" is going to take some time.

[lynel1985]

Well the good news is most wideband 02 and exhaust temp sensors work off 12v (it could be a elec.load on your rig if you wanted it to be) Mounting woudl take some thought, but as long as its a sealed exhaust pipe withonly 1 exit point, getting the data from the gas is as hard as fixing them directly in the gas flowpath. The temp probe could be replaced with a IR heat sensor gun so long as the readings are at set times and the location of the test point is the same, comparisions can be made.

[diyufire]

I hear that if you use silicon and sodium Hydroxide water will break down with out electric but I don't know if it is true or not. What do you think of using silicon and sodium Hydroxide? You can find this on youtube just search (On Demand HUGE Hydrogen Production) Please tell us what you think of this video..

[diyufire]

What is the PSI of the Hho?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Very low. Maybe 1/2 PSI.

[zstangkrewson]

why not buy a generator, add a hho cell, power that cell with the 220 side of the generator, then use the rest of the output to power your electric appliances etc...

[bradbranch]

I say, I say, to heck with combustion engines. If series of HHO cell can produce enough gas to operate a steam boiler, in return turn a 10k generator and heat a structure. This is my idea for the HHO generators and MATH, make it work and let the brainiacs figure it out.

It has to be a closed system,

[frosty1433]

what are you... 100 year's old? lol

[deltatechx]

Please do the math before you waste your and others' money and time. I don't mean to be a d!kc, it's just that I like to see mathematical proof when possible, this is definitely an experiment that can be mathematically proved/disproved.

[Hollywoods7]

Hey how was the trip ,I wanted to go but I was in oc md buying a property,trailer that is some start,oh well have fun.

[deltatechx]

Has HHO "enhanced" combustion been mathematically proven yet? The easiest way to see if this is even physically possible is to determine how much fuel a normal engine wastes through the exhaust and piston rings and see if that volume of fuel has the energy potential (the efficiency of the engine must be taken into consideration) to overcome the inefficiency of both the alternator and HHO cell. If there is energy to spare, this is feasible. If not this is a flop.

[kc5133]

Hi Zero great video. Just sent you a email about a level sensor that I found on the internet hope you can use it.

[billj324]

I have to apologize - it appears like I've spammed this channel - its was not my intent. The first three msgs were replies, and the last several are in order to be read.

[billj324]

No one has yet to provide quantitative results of adding HHO to the mix to determine changes in output of these combustion cycles. Few even understand that in combustion cycles, the hydrogen doesn't perfectly recombine with oxygen to produce water, result: noxious compounds with similar toxicity as carbon monoxide and dioxide. I challenge Zero here to use his modified devices to analyze the efficiencies of this process - in other words, determine how much energy he is producing at what cost.

[billj324]

Only referring to energy output and input. Do this by reducing the variables present in the system: place a constant load on the generator, from there, fix the throttle state, then attach the gas generator to the alternator, and the gas output into the intake. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if the engine dies. This will probably be caused by the lag in producing the gas and the lack of gas to compensate for the increased load,

[billj324]

to get around this, unfix the throttle until it reaches steady state (with both gasoline and hho entering intake), then fix the throttle to the "pre hho load". If the engine dies, this is a clear indication that the HHO is not returning sufficient energy to the system to keep it alive. Assuming it is still running, From there, we can determine the loss. Keep in mind that most loads are not linear in response,

[billj324]

This means that even if the engine is still running, it most likey will run at a reduced RPM until the load is reduced to equallibrium with the combustive output. At this point, this is another reality check that this is a waste of time! Do not account for cost of materials and maintenance, just energy in and energy out. I am a mechanical engineer at the UofA, through my studies we have been taught to critically analyze efficiency. Entropy is produced in creating usable work - always.

[billj324]

, in addition to proportional (assuming linear change - which is NOT the case) increases in entropy (due to the GREAT increase in gas production to make this "Zero Fossil Fuel") your loss of energy due to intrinsic irreversibilities within the system(s) would only serve to consume more energy than would be needed to power the generator. This is not your Holy Grail. Why hasnt this been done yet? It has, and its been discarded.

All the easy problems have been solved ladies and gentlemen.

[billj324]

Taking into account the (in)efficiencies of the devices within each system (a system being the engine, alternator, and/or gas generator, etc) in effect in this system spells WASTE. It is simply impossible for this system to run completely off itself (perpetual motion machine?). It must always be used with another combustive material (gasoline), or be fed from a source that provides ample volume of this gas, which at the volumes in question produces an extreme safety concern

[K1LLJ3W5]

I don't get it.. pulling the needle stem out is suppose to demonstrate what?? I thought the motor was running on pure hydroxy?? apparently it's running on gas as well.. Pulling the stem out I expected the engine to sputter or die.. It's still running at full speed.

[lApEkv2l]

@ K1LLJ3W5 you assume too much, and did the video say it was running on only hho? nope.

[r06u3AP]

Still using a fan on the PWM module because the power FET isn't being driven correctly. Oh, well.

[Davehho1]

One small step for Z !

One giant leap for mankind ! lol

[K1LLJ3W5]

why the hell are you still using immersion technology?? you should use something like the 25LPM drycell that Marchlabs is using. Runs on 110V DC 18-19A. That setup you have is producing like 5 LPM right??

[vulpine61]

K1LLJ3W5, Is that the cell you are using? It looks like a great cell and I bet if marchlabs sent one to Z for use in his experiments he would use it TOO. However I like the use what simple household items you can find idea. Someday maybe I will get up the nerve to video some of my HHO ideas; I got a few different directions I went too. Until then I support all the garage junkies I can.

[moabsafari]

He is just supplementing the gasoline with HHO. He is removing the nozzle which is supplying the HHO in order to hear the difference in performance. Unless Z states otherwise I'm sure this is absolutely not running on HHO alone.

[billj324]

And we still continue the vicious cycle of getting nowhere. Everyone does this, do something new - show us the money!!! It takes a considerable amount of energy simply to keep the engine itself running. this is the major issue with car millage. The combustion engine should only be used to produce energy at its greatest efficiency (every engine has its "sweet spot") to be efficiently stored for later use. now how we will do this is whats in major development.

[rainmanp7]

Nifty :) I love the whole self running stuff that is my style :) It's excellent for presentation style material.

I even prefer it for my testing when testing other things. I like things that can run themselves. That has always been a um fascination of mine :) Great work with the self feeder system :)

Keep up the great work.

[billj324]

Interested in more? Learn calculus, physics, and chemistry. I'm not trying to be arrogant, but just as religion is unsafe in hands of those who lack education, so is science. I'm sorry for my political ignorance, but its fundamental.

[ehnriko]

Hey Z, Cool!... 160A alternator powered by a gen set - to supply energy for the cell... Pretty neat!... Thanks for sharing this. I love the way your mind works. With more than enough supplemental hydrogen/oxygen.... that gen can go for hours.... days perhaps?....

[billj324]

theoretically, with enough of this gas, it can run forever. Assuming it does what other have claimed (increased millage etc) then we should at least find the point where the gains are optimal - I am not calling this a hoax, but every theory has its limits, if this does in fact produce a catalytic effect to combustion, it would be highly beneficial to research the point where this effect is negated by the energy consumed by the hydro cell.

[zstangkrewson]

well im sure it is runing off the hho, but is it only hho? please remove the fuel tank and restart the engine, show us it can run completely off the hho. i always thought an engine if it had two alternators on it, could poower itself by hho after inital startup....

[the404man]

sorry but im not sure whats going on here... its running on gasoline ? and the HHO is for better millage ? and why did it keep running the same once you took the HHO off , i am going to watch the video again , maybe i missed something

[the404man]

ah ok so you where showing us the unit and giving us a dimension of basically how it should work .. am i right ?

[kubikop]

ps 5* stars

[kubikop]

I have been slack on watching my subscriptions, but this looks well promising... Well done

Ill review your previous to get to this...

Paul..

[cousinles80]

What about the Honda engine you were going to mod?

[TomCjr]

Great Job!!!

[cm250fine]

so is that a 3.5 HP motor?

Super good vid to

[bristolsdjcubed]

That's a beautiful thing!~

[HHO4ALL]

Nice stuff.

I can't wait to see the results of your testing.

Keep up the good work.

[FulinYu]

It's interesting, I can see that your setup is getting more detailed. I'm guessing by the setup that the HHO is supplemental to gas since when the tube is pulled out the engine doesn't seem to slow.

I know you've been working with the PWM for a while.

[skeeterb2006]

Cool setup zero, what kind of work did you do to the motor to make it run or did you do any mods?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

No mods at all yet. That why I'm not going to get my hopes up too high for this first series of data.

[insAneTunA]

I love it !!!

[Boyntonstu]

Will you post your MPG gain on your trip to/from Waldorf?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

YES! I have the test rig in my trunk tethered to the vehicle power running 25A, approx 1.7 LPM of HHO at just under 5mmw efficiency which I know this cell is. No EFIE.

[mochiam]

is it all hho or a mix?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Well, let's think. It keeps running when I pull the HHO off. Hmmmmmmm.....

[mochiam]

Sorry I didn't watch all the video ......., bytheway no need to be sarcastic :-)

[CarbideTip]

Sweet setup Z. Can't wait for the numbers. Probably want to lose the torch tip tho:-)

What are you using for the coupling?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Yes, I know about the needle. Need to drill out the freeze plug to accommodate a hose fitting.

each shaft has a 7/8in. hexnut on it with a 5/8in. By 18 thread. The shaft coupling is a section of 1in. Inside diameter heater hose clapped tightly around the nuts with hose clamps. It has slipped on me a couple of times already. Can't put too much load on it. I would prefer to have one of those six point end to end couplers but I ran out of time.

[gotbad]

Great test!! Pretty awesome to me!!

RR

[HHOPWR]

Nice Work Z

[Commack08]

Good test bed.. But the GOAL is to have a self sustaining run using no fuel other than what is produced by the cell... Once that is accomplished, then proving that it is producing an "overage" should only be a matter of connecting a volt and amp gauge. If your producing more electricity than your using to sustain the engine run, you have a useful generator that (more or less) runs on water.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

yes, 100 percent water is the end game. However, the immediate goal is to show a net gain of total system efficiency.

[Commack08]

Water, has a net yield of 2 hydrogen moles.. However, Alcohol has a net yield of 6. -- Thusly mixing alcohol in the water used in the cell will increase the hydrogen yield exponentially without increasing the danger of fire or explosion. (depending on the concentration of alcohol.)

A 20 to 30% mix should not be overly flammable or explosive and should increase your hydrogen yield by at least that percentage.

Good luck !! -- Dave.

[sodapop503]

That will probably also increase the electrical draw. because more electrons must flow in to release the extra hydrogen atoms.

[water2gashawaii]

Hey zero, nice work.

I'm concerned that your needle may turn into a torch and cut the engine block accidentally.

[joewilder]

You really like that wet cell. I remember it gets pretty good MMW. Did you ever solve the foaming problem?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Yes, I placed it on a Vibrating wooden test bed platform !  ;-)

[insAneTunA]

hahahaha :-) That should do the trick

[larryseyer]

Is the Briggs and Straton running on pure hydrogen made by the cell?

It looks that way, but it didn't die when you pulled the tube out.