Looks awesome! Iam trying to make a cell myself. Although i have problems getting it gas tight sealed (either gas escapes at the electrodes or at the hose hole i intend to lead the gas through.) Sometimes it escapes at the cap i try to use. Since i have no specialty glasswork iam trying to use regular pots.
Friend, I know you understand electrodes! then you can give me a hand? what is the name or brand of electrodes that you used in your videos that are resistant to corosao?
is so I try to do this. I do not think that is something that works. I look forward answer!
@ytmachx what i mean with "Normal stainlees steel" is i thought it had to be some special stainless steel? :) i have some problems to figure out how to make the Electrolysis, (what they should be made of) the anode and cathode.. you are only adding the "salt" into the water and then using your cell bucket nothing els? :)
@attacker12345 304 is one of the most common types. You need this for your cathode because of its relatively high nickel content, 8-10.5% (316 would be great too~ 10-14%). The nickel content guards against the initiation of corrosion and provides resistance to reducing solutions. The +Anode must be made of MMO or some platinum plated material. The electrolyte is just salt,(potassium chloride).
Adding potassium hydroxide (KOH) would speed up the first (and slow!) step of the process and it would decrease the production of chlorine gas significantly. Also a small amount of bichromate ions should reduce the rereduction of chlorate and hypochlorate ions making the process more efficient. You probably knew that already.. :)
@mazabi22 I wouldn't add any KOH. The electrolysis runs toward alkaline and really needs a slight pH correction in the other direction. The chromate can help but then you need to deal with it later.
@ytmachx Do you think that I'm an ashole? If you don't answer to me, don't do it.X(
Simplemente preguntaba porque aquí no hay lugar donde se consiga un electrodo de platino; Anomet no existe acá. Si te interesa entender, que alguien te lo traduzca porque no tengo porqué escribir en Inglés, no es mi idioma nativo.
@Krummers1 Usted tendrá que buscar en la Internet para el MMO o un electrodo de platino. Cuando usted tiene el electrodo, entonces usted puede comenzar el proceso. Hay otros en México, Italia, España y Brasil que han sido exitoso en la búsqueda de los electrodos.
@b43e65f77 The electrolysis current is the source of heat in the solution. It's not just the voltage but the total dissipated power, i.e. Watts. Volts x amps = Watts. I am dissipating approx 155 watts,(6.2 volts x 25 amps). Think of how hot a 155 watt light bulb gets. At lower currents, there will be very little heat. For example; 5 volts x 2 amps =10 watts. A 10 watt light bulb is not very hot.
>The "easy way" refers to the direct conversion of KCL in lieu of NaCL. This eliminates the need for metathesis,further more, you can also see your progress visually, as the finished product falls from solution during the process.
how do i know what my final product is i ran my cell for a few days. at the bottom was large clear crystals but not the fine crystals like yours . it looks almost like the chloride settled at the bottom and then crystalized into chlorate i need a way to test the product can you help?
and if yoyu have any other pointers i will gladly take them
@ytmachx lol i can assure you i am not my name is actually a variation of my PSN devineassassin this name was already taken on youtube so i put x's at the end. The use of this will be for airsoft and milsim operations that of which i am an enthusiast of. I dont have many other videos other than the ones of my schools trebuchet
@nickoolay Yes, if the cell is not more than about 5 liters. The heat alone, is not the reason that chlorate is produced, but the temperature helps speed up the reaction. Anywhere between 40 to 90 degrees C is adequate.
@ytmachx Thanks for the great video! I have one question though, I'm currently waiting for an answer from Anomet but I doubt they ship worldwide. If not, could you send me, via post, the PtCladNb mesh anode if I payed you in advance?
@ytmachx Well it turn out they do so that's good news, but they have a minimum order of 150$ (e.g 2" by 12" mesh) so I'll have to save some cash first
I'm thinking about a cell that is composed of copper cathode, platinum-iridium anode and a 5v 50a. Would it be a good idea? By the way, where can I get lead dioxide anodes?
@b1912313 That could work well, provided that the electrodes are large enough to handle the current and you never leave the electrodes in the electrolyte unenergized.
I used platinum plated electrodeds both anode and cathode and a 12v car charger at 10 amps for 4.5 days. It bubbled and you could smell the chlorine.it got hot and I had to add water 2x a day. Now I have chunks that wont dislove in water hot or cold easily. Wont react with h2s04 and sugar except make chorine gas, makes amonia salts release amonia gas but is not a strong base. what do i have? cant be cloride after the time and reaction.2 days into it a sample did react with sugar and h2s04.
you do have a chloride sir. because your anode and cathode both have the same charge on a molecular level, the efficiency of electro transfer through the fluid has been reduced regardless of the high amperage. try something like copper and place the cathode/anode close together. there is no need for a large distance between the two, the liquid will flow with the natural heating/cooling effect.
other thing I would like to ask you, how important is the surface area of the electodes? I mean, I know that the bigger it is the better the current is distributed on solution but is there a optimum value?
The electrodes I am using are 25cm x 5cm long (quite big) is this ok or should I decrease the size to increase current density?
@danielrascio The negative electrode can have a larger surface area than the anode, however, if it is too big, it will not have a sufficient negative charge density to avoid corrosion,(no cathodic protection). My anode is 90 square cm (5cm x 18cm) and I am running a current density of 0.277A/cm Also, I made sure that the electrodes were completely submerged in the electrolyte. Use PM from now on.
@danielrascio As the electrodes are closer together, the amperage should be higher. Check to see if the current is too high for the power supply,(i.e., so high that it is unable to maintain higher currents) Also check the voltage to see if the supply is maintaining proper voltage regulation. Usually the PC power supplies are protected and will shut down if overloaded. The cathode does become slightly corroded and this reduces its effectiveness. I always clean the cathode before each run.
@ytmachx The power supply is OK (both potential and current), I think my mmo has passivated. When I plug the mmo to negative the current jumps to 20A (and start decreasing due to Ti passivation on positive side). When the mmo is connected to positive again current goes to 20A and decreases again, now it barely sustain 2 A. I have more mmo at college´s lab, I will try changing it and see what happens.
I suspect on formation of TiO2 between Ti and mmo coating and in this case the anode is gone.
@danielrascio I believe that you are correct. The Ti cathode is surely passivated if you have run it in the cell connected to the positive. It only needs a minute for this to happen. If the MMO is connected to the negative, it will rapidly lose its MMO coating as well.
@ytmachx In that case, what grade of stainless steel should I use? Do I use the 430 grade chromium stainless steel, or the 316 type molybdenum high corrosion resistance alloy? The 316 alloy is pretty expensive, so is it worth it? Which one did you use?
@yellowmetalcyborg You need the austenitic chromium nickel stainless steel 304/304L. 316 is even better because of the higher nickel content (14%). I used 304 stainless. Chromium protects from oxidation.The austenite formed by the addition of nickel protects from a reducing environment and halts the propagation of corrosion. The Asian 200 series manganese/nitrogen austenitic stainless steels are worthless in the chlorate cell because of the lack of nickel.
@norxcontacts Yes, most all titanium electrodes are platinum plated over a suitable substrate like titanium or niobium. A solid platinum electrode would be much more expensive.
@MrAirshot I believe you are mixing comments from two different videos. Yes, I do use ~1.13kg of KCI. I actually get Over 1Kg of chlorate from this. This is because nearly 100% of the KCI converts to chlorate. The comment about 1/2 or 900g was from a KCIO4 video because I only converted 1/2 of the electrolyte.
"some people said that u will get just the half" what i meant is ,some people in youtube said to me that I AM will get half the amount of kcl converted to kclo3 whatsoever , so if i start with 1 kg i will make just half kg ,and that's from 2 runs i noticed.
i believe that my cell did not run enough time .
thanks ,i am very very happy how you help people out here ,RESPECT.
i successfully build cell and works wonder after some modification. i bought ammeter and want to hooked it up, how should i hook up the ammeter , before the electrodes or after? and it should be in series . right
The ammeter should be connected in series with one of the electrodes.It doesn't matter which one. If your meter is the shunt type, the shunt is connected in series with one of the electrodes. Both meters will have to be connected with the proper polarity. If the meter reads backward, just reverse the polarity of the meter.
Hi there, I have a few questions in regards to making Potasium chlorate and perchlorate as I really don't know:
I have a platinum anode and a titanium cathode with a adjustable 0 to 8 volts 30 AMP continues power supply. I understand from reading from different sources that the optimum voltage for chlorate production is 3 - 5 V @ 2-3 AMPS and perchlorate production 6 - 7 V @3AMPS. My question to you is. If I want to make chlorate I just use a lower voltage is that right ? also ........
@SFXfireworks The truth is, that there are also other factors involved. The absolute minimum voltage is 4-5 (5 volts really).Perchlorate needs about 6-7 volts. Chlorate can be made with either voltage, it just happens faster at 6 volts than 5. The current depends on the amount of electrolyte and the size of your electrodes.If you start with KCI, it doesn't matter which voltage you run, you aren't going to make perchlorate.
how? i have cell with about 2 liter with about 400 grams potassium chloride and takes about 3 days to get 200 gram kloc3 . 5v and 25a that mu pc power supply
@MrAirshot MY input is 100 grams kcl and output is also 100 grams kclo3...Using Computer power supply...i am using 12volts yellow wires for anode and i've also placed a nichrome wire in between to lower the voltage to 5-6 volts...i have 10 amps on amp meter.... i did not use 5.5 volts wires because i was only getting 1 amp (dont know why). Its about 1 litre cell and my electrodes are 2 inchs apart....m using a stainless steel cathode.
@MrAirshot Question#1...seriously i don't know how m getting 100 grams. My cell is too hot+solution is getting brown due to stainless steel corrosion...and i think my anode is also erroding at 10 amps...my pt electode now has brown stains on it.....i think its due to corrosion of cathode which is stainless steel...see m video.
Question# 2 $120....ti-shop.com
Question# 3 This wire is used in electric heaters....You can find one at local electronic/hardware store.
ytmachx Thanks, i also tried to make kclo3 at home but i am confused with amps and surface area of electrode...i bought mine pt electrode from ti-shop.com (plz visit and see technical info) ...its Surface Area is 32.50 Sq Cm and max current density is (KiloAmps/Meter square) 3.0-5.0. My cell(1 liter) is taking 10 Amps ....i just want to ask that, is my electrode(anode) will errode at 10 amps???? do i need to reduce the amps??? voltage at electrodes is 5.5 volts.
@SONIAACCA Is that the PT-25-MS-010-02-01/ti PT Anode 2.5Micron MESH 1mm thick x 50x50mm?
I didn't see one at 32.5 square cm. I think that 0.307A/ square cm is ok. I ran a little less current density on mine,(0.277A/cm for 1000 hours), and I can't even tell it's been used. I hope you have it hooked up to the positive.
@ytmachx It is ti PT Anode 1Micron MESH 1mm thick x 50x50mm....scroll down the list to the end of the page and click technical info... link (ti-shop.com/ti-anodes-electrodes/pt-ti-anode-electrode/1-pt-ti-mesh-anode/1mm-thick-1-m-platinised-ti-mesh-anode-electrode.html)
1mm thick x 50x50mm is anode size and surface area is 32.50 Sq Cm ( see tech info)..
I dont know how to calculate current density...either using anode size 50x50mm or surface area 32.50 sq cm??? KA/M2= 3-5
@ytmachx I AM CALCULATING MAX CURRENT DENSITY by formula, Kiloamps/ meter sq= 3-5 (given on ti-shop.com) ..so after converting sq cm(32.50) to sq meter i get 0.003250 sq meter & i took average of (3+5)/2 =4....so after putting this into formula i get (meter sq * 4 = kiloamps) or (0.003250 *4= 0.013)
the max kiloamps i can pump is 0.013KA or (0.013*1000) 13 amps.... i guess u got the point wht m actully upto... IS this calculation is correct???
@ytmachx In other words U are saying that i should not pump more the 9.9775 amps(0.307 * 32.50 sq cm) from my pt electrode(anode)??? i saw ur video...my electrode is small in size compared to yours. 50x50mm size(mesh) and 32.50 sq cm surface area...It was too expensive for me :(
I'm thinking you should be able to produce HCl as a byproduct, by filtering the waste gas (Hydrogen Chloride) through water. Maybe. If I had the proper equipment, I'd try it myself, but maybe someone else can try. Anyway, thanks for sharing where to find the mesh, was having trouble, google kept giving me issues looking for electrodes with various queries.
@GUYSTUFFPRODUCTI0NS You need to be able to read the voltage and amperage dissipated across the cell to properly adjust the electrodes. The solution(electrolyte) needs to be kept warm/hot. This heat is usually provided by the electrolysis current.
I don't understand... I thought potassium chlorate was extremely hydroscopic. Wouldn't running all that ice water through it during the filtering ruin it?
@BillyDa59 No, that's really not the case. KCIO3 is relatively insoluble in water and especially in cold water. KCIO4 is practically insoluble even in water at RT.
Is it possible to use zirconium and stainless for the electrodes? I would like to try this, but have no plans on obtaining platinum for the electrode, far too expensive.
@TunedCavityLasers I don't know about the zirconium, but I can tell you that ALL common materials have been tried many years ago and carbon,PB02,MMO, and platinum were the only materials found to work sufficiently and Platinum came out the undisputed winner.
Fact: platinum clad electrode is not far too expensive. Mine were $135ea. (I spent more on the glassware)
Thanks for the info.. Im not sure how common zirconium is but it has some unique properties and is found in nuclear reactors housing the fuel. It has a high corrosion resistance to acids etc and use it in my HHO generator. I would like to experiment and see if it serves any useful purpose in a set up similar to yours.
I Will be sure to let you know how it works out..
BTW, thought the platinum clad would be higher, 135$ is not bad at all. I had assumed it would be much more.
@TunedCavityLasers Platinum is used in catalytic converters of cars' exhaust system. All you need is a neighbour, a tool bag and some basic 'engineering' skills.
@TunedCavityLasers Cheaper!? Didn't meant a 'clean' extraction. Neighbour's car... Hammer and sheers... just hit and cut... hehe. Anyways it was humour (bad, maybe... ^_^) so didn't expect you would take that seriously, sorry. Hey you've got an HHO generator!? If uses electrolysis of water then what voltage and power source do you use? I've tried with about 5 AA cells (running on school pocket money here so limited resources :-P) in series but it was practically useless...
From what I gather there can be up to 1.2g of platinum in a catalytic, but it is not a strip you can readily pull out.. It is impregnated in the comb amongst other materials and is not only a challenge in itself to extract, but also very dangerous and requires a meticulous process..
If you are making HHO, use a proper power supply.. there is tonnes of info and designs available on websites and instructional videos here on YT...
ytmachx, how long have you owned your platinum lattice for and how often do you use it in terms of days per year? I hear they last 20 years in industry, but know nothing on the thickness of the coat or how often they are used, although I imagine it everyday in ore processing. Do you perhaps have an estimate that you have heard somewhere for such small scale uses? I want to know if it is worth the investment as I am over using graphite anodes. Thanks mate.
@Simlatio I have just over 1000 hours on the electrode and I can't see any wear. It is most definitely worth the investment. The life of the electrode really depends how much current is dissipated through the electrode and the nature of the solution.
@staszek300 Copper does not work as an anode. Platinum is one of the most precious metals and is currently over $1800 per oz. A sheet of platinum screen large enough to make an anode like mine would probably be over $750, if you can find it.
Could you tell me the formula, or how ever you decide, to know when to stop. I want to try to run for optimal KClO3 production, and not get KClO4. Right now I'm running it for 4 days. Thanks so much for your help so far.
@coyote7272 *User Blocked* comment deleted.
ytmachx 3 days ago
@ytmachx
What is the name of the electrolysis apparatus?
SirLovestain 1 week ago
@SirLovestain electrolysis cell? electrolytic cell?
ytmachx 1 week ago
@ytmachx I know what it's general name is. For example there are flasks but then i can be more specific and say erlenmeyer flask. Thank you
SirLovestain 6 days ago
@SirLovestain It consists of a reaction vessel with a reactor lid....etc.
ytmachx 6 days ago
@ytmachx Thank you, and sorry for my lack of knowledge.
SirLovestain 5 days ago
Looks awesome! Iam trying to make a cell myself. Although i have problems getting it gas tight sealed (either gas escapes at the electrodes or at the hose hole i intend to lead the gas through.) Sometimes it escapes at the cap i try to use. Since i have no specialty glasswork iam trying to use regular pots.
ReapingMiner 1 week ago
Friend, I know you understand electrodes! then you can give me a hand? what is the name or brand of electrodes that you used in your videos that are resistant to corosao?
is so I try to do this. I do not think that is something that works. I look forward answer!
viniciusxp100 2 weeks ago
@viniciusxp100 Please read video description.
ytmachx 2 weeks ago
Do you just boil the water and then add some salt, and after that you put it in the machine? :)
can i use normal stainless steel? or do it have to be 304 stainless steel?
and can i use TITANIUM MESH STRETCHED SCREEN MMO COATING ? :)
nice video btw! :)
attacker12345 1 month ago
@attacker12345 Thanks!
Not "some" salt. As much salt as will dissolve. What is "normal stainless steel"? MMO does work, but it will only last a short while.
ytmachx 1 month ago
@ytmachx what i mean with "Normal stainlees steel" is i thought it had to be some special stainless steel? :) i have some problems to figure out how to make the Electrolysis, (what they should be made of) the anode and cathode.. you are only adding the "salt" into the water and then using your cell bucket nothing els? :)
attacker12345 1 month ago
@attacker12345 304 is one of the most common types. You need this for your cathode because of its relatively high nickel content, 8-10.5% (316 would be great too~ 10-14%). The nickel content guards against the initiation of corrosion and provides resistance to reducing solutions. The +Anode must be made of MMO or some platinum plated material. The electrolyte is just salt,(potassium chloride).
ytmachx 1 month ago
@ytmachx What about pure nickel metal?
elementcollector1 1 week ago
how many gram Kalium Chloride (KCl) had you put into the water, and how many grams of Kalium Chlorate (KClO3) had you after?
Thanks! nice vid.!
SebastiaanLP670 1 month ago
@SebastiaanLP670 About 1100gKCL and I get about 1240gKCLO4
ytmachx 1 month ago
@ytmachx
thanks!
SebastiaanLP670 1 month ago
Adding potassium hydroxide (KOH) would speed up the first (and slow!) step of the process and it would decrease the production of chlorine gas significantly. Also a small amount of bichromate ions should reduce the rereduction of chlorate and hypochlorate ions making the process more efficient. You probably knew that already.. :)
mazabi22 2 months ago
@mazabi22 I wouldn't add any KOH. The electrolysis runs toward alkaline and really needs a slight pH correction in the other direction. The chromate can help but then you need to deal with it later.
ytmachx 2 months ago
Use stainless steel for both electrodes doesn't work? And, Can I increase the voltage to accelerate the reaction?
Krummers1 2 months ago
@Krummers1 Why don't you worry about getting a reaction started first,before looking for ways to do it faster???
ytmachx 2 months ago
@ytmachx Do you think that I'm an ashole? If you don't answer to me, don't do it.X(
Simplemente preguntaba porque aquí no hay lugar donde se consiga un electrodo de platino; Anomet no existe acá. Si te interesa entender, que alguien te lo traduzca porque no tengo porqué escribir en Inglés, no es mi idioma nativo.
Krummers1 2 months ago
@Krummers1 Usted tendrá que buscar en la Internet para el MMO o un electrodo de platino. Cuando usted tiene el electrodo, entonces usted puede comenzar el proceso. Hay otros en México, Italia, España y Brasil que han sido exitoso en la búsqueda de los electrodos.
ytmachx 2 months ago
@ytmachx I live in Uruguay.
Krummers1 2 months ago
Could I substitute a titanium electrode for the platinum electrode? Thanks!
sPaWnSMASH1337 2 months ago
@sPaWnSMASH1337 No, that will not work as a positively charged electrode, as the titanium will become passivated and fail.
ytmachx 2 months ago
the positive is the stainless steel ?
malaeel 2 months ago
@malaeel No,it's negative.
ytmachx 2 months ago
Comment removed
malaeel 2 months ago
use 5 volts to keep the solution hot?
b43e65f77 3 months ago
@b43e65f77 The electrolysis current is the source of heat in the solution. It's not just the voltage but the total dissipated power, i.e. Watts. Volts x amps = Watts. I am dissipating approx 155 watts,(6.2 volts x 25 amps). Think of how hot a 155 watt light bulb gets. At lower currents, there will be very little heat. For example; 5 volts x 2 amps =10 watts. A 10 watt light bulb is not very hot.
ytmachx 3 months ago
Very nice setup you got there mate!
rakia66 3 months ago
@rakia66 Thanks!
ytmachx 3 months ago
>platinum electrodes
>easy way
wat
demoniack81 3 months ago 2
@demoniack81
>The "easy way" refers to the direct conversion of KCL in lieu of NaCL. This eliminates the need for metathesis,further more, you can also see your progress visually, as the finished product falls from solution during the process.
>Platinum electrodes are not difficult to obtain.
ytmachx 3 months ago
@ytmachx Yes, but they're very expensive.
Krummers1 2 months ago
@Krummers1
Mine was $135 and it seems to last forever~ it's worth it at twice the price!
ytmachx 2 months ago
How much did that whole setup cost you? With details please?
wannaparty247 3 months ago
@wannaparty247 Ebay, 1 3L M Buchner funnel $60. Glass shop, add 45/50 joint $110. Ebay,4L Apothecary $40. Ebay,3L reaction vessel $40. Ebay,reactor head $75. Anomet,Platinum anode $135. Power supply,cathode, stands, clamp~ home made. Total? $500-600?
ytmachx 3 months ago
Can you make potassium hydroxide during the process? Where did you purchase the large flask with the electrodes?
Thanks
Mrelevatorman 4 months ago
@Mrelevatorman Please read the comments. Many questions have been answered.
ytmachx 4 months ago
how do i know what my final product is i ran my cell for a few days. at the bottom was large clear crystals but not the fine crystals like yours . it looks almost like the chloride settled at the bottom and then crystalized into chlorate i need a way to test the product can you help?
and if yoyu have any other pointers i will gladly take them
DivineAssassinXXX 4 months ago
@DivineAssassinXXX I have a problem with your youtube name. It sounds like you're a muslim jihadist.
ytmachx 4 months ago 2
@ytmachx lol i can assure you i am not my name is actually a variation of my PSN devineassassin this name was already taken on youtube so i put x's at the end. The use of this will be for airsoft and milsim operations that of which i am an enthusiast of. I dont have many other videos other than the ones of my schools trebuchet
DivineAssassinXXX 4 months ago
@DivineAssassinXXX Chlorate crystals are square, salt crystals have no consistent shape. Test with sugar and fire. (Salt doesn't burn)
ytmachx 4 months ago
What voltage did you use and what electrolyte? And, did you use DC or AC current?
Jaybird196 4 months ago
@Jaybird196 6.5 volts ,KCL, D.C.
ytmachx 4 months ago
@ytmachx Thanks a bunch :) !
Jaybird196 4 months ago
will a regular sheet of steel work? or does it have to be stainless steel ?
DivineAssassinXXX 5 months ago
@DivineAssassinXXX It needs to be 304 stainless steel. (an austenitic stainless steel made with nickel)
ytmachx 5 months ago
So you mean if i'll have 20 Amperes the soluion will heat enough to produce chlorate??
nickoolay 5 months ago in playlist Другие видео от пользователя ytmachx
@nickoolay Yes, if the cell is not more than about 5 liters. The heat alone, is not the reason that chlorate is produced, but the temperature helps speed up the reaction. Anywhere between 40 to 90 degrees C is adequate.
ytmachx 5 months ago
@ytmachx obviously will make chlorate don't see anything impossible for me in here
nickoolay 5 months ago
Lucky SOB your facility is awe inspiring.
RatkoUSA 5 months ago
@RatkoUSA Thanks man!
ytmachx 5 months ago
how did you make and where can i get material for the anodes and cathodes ?
DivineAssassinXXX 5 months ago
@DivineAssassinXXX ebay
ytmachx 5 months ago
@ytmachx hey great vid man but i cant find platinum screen on ebay could you give me a link
much appreciated
BCQD4 5 months ago
@BCQD4 It was from Anomet. Use google.
ytmachx 5 months ago
@ytmachx Thanks for the great video! I have one question though, I'm currently waiting for an answer from Anomet but I doubt they ship worldwide. If not, could you send me, via post, the PtCladNb mesh anode if I payed you in advance?
tTatmosT 5 months ago
@tTatmosT I believe that Anomet will ship to you. Lets see what happens with them first.
ytmachx 5 months ago
@ytmachx Well it turn out they do so that's good news, but they have a minimum order of 150$ (e.g 2" by 12" mesh) so I'll have to save some cash first
tTatmosT 5 months ago
@tTatmosT You'll want them to attach the rod to the mesh for you. Mine has a 6mm platinum clad titanium rod crimped and spot welded on it.
ytmachx 5 months ago
@ytmachx and is it save to dip that rod in the electrolyte? will the spot welding not "melt" the plated platinum away?
tTatmosT 5 months ago
@tTatmosT It is what I am using in the video.
ytmachx 5 months ago
@tTatmosT I found a 3'x2" piece on amazon for $35
brush200400 4 months ago
@brush200400 That I doubt it will be reliable, since a platinum wire (the thinnest I could find) one foot long costed over 300pounds (UK site)
tTatmosT 4 months ago
Did you heat the mixture so it would produce chlorate?
MrCpuclocker 5 months ago
@MrCpuclocker The solution is heated by the electrolysis current.
ytmachx 5 months ago
What why doesn't this produce potassium hydroxide?
MrCpuclocker 5 months ago
@MrCpuclocker Hydroxides are produced during the process but they are intermediates and become converted.
ytmachx 5 months ago
I'm thinking about a cell that is composed of copper cathode, platinum-iridium anode and a 5v 50a. Would it be a good idea? By the way, where can I get lead dioxide anodes?
b1912313 6 months ago
@b1912313 That could work well, provided that the electrodes are large enough to handle the current and you never leave the electrodes in the electrolyte unenergized.
ytmachx 6 months ago
@ytmachx Thank you very much! Then I'll be try it. Would it work for bromates as well? What about the lead dioxide?Do you know where I can buy them?
b1912313 6 months ago
@b1912313 I haven't tried bromates and the lead dioxide electrodes are nothing but trouble. They are usually plates taken out of car batteries.
ytmachx 6 months ago
@ytmachx Sad to hear that....Do they flake much?
b1912313 6 months ago
@b1912313 They just don't work well if they work at all.
ytmachx 6 months ago
I used platinum plated electrodeds both anode and cathode and a 12v car charger at 10 amps for 4.5 days. It bubbled and you could smell the chlorine.it got hot and I had to add water 2x a day. Now I have chunks that wont dislove in water hot or cold easily. Wont react with h2s04 and sugar except make chorine gas, makes amonia salts release amonia gas but is not a strong base. what do i have? cant be cloride after the time and reaction.2 days into it a sample did react with sugar and h2s04.
mrcookler 6 months ago in playlist Chemistry
@mrcookler You must have some sort of chloride.
You cannot run the platinum electrode for both the cathode and anode. The cathode side will be destroyed.
ytmachx 6 months ago
you do have a chloride sir. because your anode and cathode both have the same charge on a molecular level, the efficiency of electro transfer through the fluid has been reduced regardless of the high amperage. try something like copper and place the cathode/anode close together. there is no need for a large distance between the two, the liquid will flow with the natural heating/cooling effect.
CRAZYSTOO 5 months ago
very nice yield
bas12345654321 6 months ago
I'm so jealous. When I turn mine on I hardly get bubbles because I just don't have enough amps and I can't afford the fancy platinum.
bamboo4tameshigiri 6 months ago
@bamboo4tameshigiri Sorry for that.
ytmachx 6 months ago
found an anode in ebay - no 200640550428 -
you think that might work?
TheChecksix 6 months ago
hey can carbon electrodes be used???
BCQD4 7 months ago
@BCQD4 Yes. Please read the comments
ytmachx 7 months ago
@000JERRY0000 ITS VERY USEFUL ! U CAN MAKE ROCKET WID COMPOMPOUND :)
chemicalbombgang 7 months ago
gr8 idea :) buy 1 question how do you get 25 A POWER SUPPLY ????
chemicalbombgang 7 months ago
@chemicalbombgang You can make it. Look at my other videos.
ytmachx 7 months ago
@ytmachx thanks man i got all the info at ur channel ! u rock.... ;)
chemicalbombgang 7 months ago
I was wondering if gold anodes would work for this. Gold is a little bit cheaper than platinum
b1912313 7 months ago
@b1912313 That's a good question, I don't know.
ytmachx 7 months ago
@b1912313 Gold will not make chlorates or perchlorates.
Simlatio 7 months ago
@Simlatio Fabulous. But can you tell me why?
b1912313 7 months ago
other thing I would like to ask you, how important is the surface area of the electodes? I mean, I know that the bigger it is the better the current is distributed on solution but is there a optimum value?
The electrodes I am using are 25cm x 5cm long (quite big) is this ok or should I decrease the size to increase current density?
Thanks! Have a nice day!
danielrascio 7 months ago
@danielrascio The negative electrode can have a larger surface area than the anode, however, if it is too big, it will not have a sufficient negative charge density to avoid corrosion,(no cathodic protection). My anode is 90 square cm (5cm x 18cm) and I am running a current density of 0.277A/cm Also, I made sure that the electrodes were completely submerged in the electrolyte. Use PM from now on.
ytmachx 7 months ago
Hi!
I am using a PC power suply, titanium expanded mesh as cathode and MMO anode and running with KCl.
Previous runs were very good, I observed high temperatures (needed to use a cold bath to control it) and currents about 28 amps.
But now, I made a smaller cell (same electrodes) and it starts with 10 amps and drops rapidly to 5 amps and stabilizes.
Why does it happen? the electrodes are very close, I was expecting at least 20 amps.
Neither the electrodes seem to be weared out.
Thanks! Regards!
danielrascio 7 months ago
@danielrascio As the electrodes are closer together, the amperage should be higher. Check to see if the current is too high for the power supply,(i.e., so high that it is unable to maintain higher currents) Also check the voltage to see if the supply is maintaining proper voltage regulation. Usually the PC power supplies are protected and will shut down if overloaded. The cathode does become slightly corroded and this reduces its effectiveness. I always clean the cathode before each run.
ytmachx 7 months ago
@ytmachx The power supply is OK (both potential and current), I think my mmo has passivated. When I plug the mmo to negative the current jumps to 20A (and start decreasing due to Ti passivation on positive side). When the mmo is connected to positive again current goes to 20A and decreases again, now it barely sustain 2 A. I have more mmo at college´s lab, I will try changing it and see what happens.
I suspect on formation of TiO2 between Ti and mmo coating and in this case the anode is gone.
danielrascio 7 months ago
@danielrascio I believe that you are correct. The Ti cathode is surely passivated if you have run it in the cell connected to the positive. It only needs a minute for this to happen. If the MMO is connected to the negative, it will rapidly lose its MMO coating as well.
ytmachx 7 months ago
Can you replace the stainless steel electrode with graphite?
And the platinum with a manganese dioxide coated titanium electrode?
yellowmetalcyborg 8 months ago
@yellowmetalcyborg You could use the manganese dioxide anode if it is well made, but no on the carbon cathode.
ytmachx 8 months ago
@ytmachx In that case, what grade of stainless steel should I use? Do I use the 430 grade chromium stainless steel, or the 316 type molybdenum high corrosion resistance alloy? The 316 alloy is pretty expensive, so is it worth it? Which one did you use?
Sorry about all the questions.
yellowmetalcyborg 8 months ago
@yellowmetalcyborg You need the austenitic chromium nickel stainless steel 304/304L. 316 is even better because of the higher nickel content (14%). I used 304 stainless. Chromium protects from oxidation.The austenite formed by the addition of nickel protects from a reducing environment and halts the propagation of corrosion. The Asian 200 series manganese/nitrogen austenitic stainless steels are worthless in the chlorate cell because of the lack of nickel.
ytmachx 8 months ago
Platinum electrode?!!!!
norxcontacts 8 months ago
@norxcontacts Yes, the anode is platinum clad niobium.
ytmachx 8 months ago
@ytmachx So it's platinum coated? I thought it was pure platinum.
norxcontacts 8 months ago
@norxcontacts Yes, most all titanium electrodes are platinum plated over a suitable substrate like titanium or niobium. A solid platinum electrode would be much more expensive.
ytmachx 8 months ago
after reading a lot of comment's ,i found 2 answers in separate comment's.
you used 1.13 kg of kcl ,and you got 900 gram's of kclo3, right?
some people said that u will get just the half, and thats in my case also.
then the guy with the user name SONIAACCA comment that's he get 100g kclo3 of 100g kcl, how it can be ???!!!
you should wright this in the description .
thanks man
MrAirshot 8 months ago
@MrAirshot I believe you are mixing comments from two different videos. Yes, I do use ~1.13kg of KCI. I actually get Over 1Kg of chlorate from this. This is because nearly 100% of the KCI converts to chlorate. The comment about 1/2 or 900g was from a KCIO4 video because I only converted 1/2 of the electrolyte.
ytmachx 8 months ago
@ytmachx
stupid me!!!!! : D
"some people said that u will get just the half" what i meant is ,some people in youtube said to me that I AM will get half the amount of kcl converted to kclo3 whatsoever , so if i start with 1 kg i will make just half kg ,and that's from 2 runs i noticed.
i believe that my cell did not run enough time .
thanks ,i am very very happy how you help people out here ,RESPECT.
MrAirshot 8 months ago
@MrAirshot No problem! If you have more questions send me PM.
ytmachx 8 months ago
hey there, again : D
i successfully build cell and works wonder after some modification. i bought ammeter and want to hooked it up, how should i hook up the ammeter , before the electrodes or after? and it should be in series . right
MrAirshot 8 months ago
@MrAirshot That's great news!
The ammeter should be connected in series with one of the electrodes.It doesn't matter which one. If your meter is the shunt type, the shunt is connected in series with one of the electrodes. Both meters will have to be connected with the proper polarity. If the meter reads backward, just reverse the polarity of the meter.
ytmachx 8 months ago
Hi there, I have a few questions in regards to making Potasium chlorate and perchlorate as I really don't know:
I have a platinum anode and a titanium cathode with a adjustable 0 to 8 volts 30 AMP continues power supply. I understand from reading from different sources that the optimum voltage for chlorate production is 3 - 5 V @ 2-3 AMPS and perchlorate production 6 - 7 V @3AMPS. My question to you is. If I want to make chlorate I just use a lower voltage is that right ? also ........
SFXfireworks 8 months ago
@SFXfireworks The truth is, that there are also other factors involved. The absolute minimum voltage is 4-5 (5 volts really).Perchlorate needs about 6-7 volts. Chlorate can be made with either voltage, it just happens faster at 6 volts than 5. The current depends on the amount of electrolyte and the size of your electrodes.If you start with KCI, it doesn't matter which voltage you run, you aren't going to make perchlorate.
ytmachx 8 months ago
M getting 100 grams kclo3 in 18 hours...1 liter cell. 10 amps and 5-6 volts. :)
SONIAACCA 8 months ago
@SONIAACCA
how? i have cell with about 2 liter with about 400 grams potassium chloride and takes about 3 days to get 200 gram kloc3 . 5v and 25a that mu pc power supply
MrAirshot 8 months ago
@MrAirshot MY input is 100 grams kcl and output is also 100 grams kclo3...Using Computer power supply...i am using 12volts yellow wires for anode and i've also placed a nichrome wire in between to lower the voltage to 5-6 volts...i have 10 amps on amp meter.... i did not use 5.5 volts wires because i was only getting 1 amp (dont know why). Its about 1 litre cell and my electrodes are 2 inchs apart....m using a stainless steel cathode.
SONIAACCA 8 months ago
@SONIAACCA
hey there ,great cell u have.
but how you get from 100g kcl a 100g kclo3?
many people tell me that you only get half the amount what so over !!
how much cost u PT anode?
and where can i find this nichrome wire?
MrAirshot 8 months ago
@MrAirshot Question#1...seriously i don't know how m getting 100 grams. My cell is too hot+solution is getting brown due to stainless steel corrosion...and i think my anode is also erroding at 10 amps...my pt electode now has brown stains on it.....i think its due to corrosion of cathode which is stainless steel...see m video.
Question# 2 $120....ti-shop.com
Question# 3 This wire is used in electric heaters....You can find one at local electronic/hardware store.
SONIAACCA 8 months ago
@MrAirshot plz use private msg for questions.
SONIAACCA 8 months ago
@SONIAACCA Sweet!
ytmachx 8 months ago
ytmachx Thanks, i also tried to make kclo3 at home but i am confused with amps and surface area of electrode...i bought mine pt electrode from ti-shop.com (plz visit and see technical info) ...its Surface Area is 32.50 Sq Cm and max current density is (KiloAmps/Meter square) 3.0-5.0. My cell(1 liter) is taking 10 Amps ....i just want to ask that, is my electrode(anode) will errode at 10 amps???? do i need to reduce the amps??? voltage at electrodes is 5.5 volts.
SONIAACCA 8 months ago
@SONIAACCA Is that the PT-25-MS-010-02-01/ti PT Anode 2.5Micron MESH 1mm thick x 50x50mm?
I didn't see one at 32.5 square cm. I think that 0.307A/ square cm is ok. I ran a little less current density on mine,(0.277A/cm for 1000 hours), and I can't even tell it's been used. I hope you have it hooked up to the positive.
ytmachx 8 months ago
@ytmachx It is ti PT Anode 1Micron MESH 1mm thick x 50x50mm....scroll down the list to the end of the page and click technical info... link (ti-shop.com/ti-anodes-electrodes/pt-ti-anode-electrode/1-pt-ti-mesh-anode/1mm-thick-1-m-platinised-ti-mesh-anode-electrode.html)
1mm thick x 50x50mm is anode size and surface area is 32.50 Sq Cm ( see tech info)..
I dont know how to calculate current density...either using anode size 50x50mm or surface area 32.50 sq cm??? KA/M2= 3-5
SONIAACCA 8 months ago
YA I HOOKED UP TO THE POSITIVE...PT ANODE.
SONIAACCA 8 months ago
@ytmachx I AM CALCULATING MAX CURRENT DENSITY by formula, Kiloamps/ meter sq= 3-5 (given on ti-shop.com) ..so after converting sq cm(32.50) to sq meter i get 0.003250 sq meter & i took average of (3+5)/2 =4....so after putting this into formula i get (meter sq * 4 = kiloamps) or (0.003250 *4= 0.013)
the max kiloamps i can pump is 0.013KA or (0.013*1000) 13 amps.... i guess u got the point wht m actully upto... IS this calculation is correct???
SONIAACCA 8 months ago
@ytmachx In other words U are saying that i should not pump more the 9.9775 amps(0.307 * 32.50 sq cm) from my pt electrode(anode)??? i saw ur video...my electrode is small in size compared to yours. 50x50mm size(mesh) and 32.50 sq cm surface area...It was too expensive for me :(
SONIAACCA 8 months ago
hey ytmachx good setup and ur output is also good... what is the size of platinum electrode by length and width in inchs.????
SONIAACCA 8 months ago
@SONIAACCA The mesh is 2" x7" and the rod is 1/4" x 8" long
ytmachx 8 months ago
@ytmachx thanks :)
SONIAACCA 8 months ago
@GUYSTUFFPRODUCTI0NS HomeDepot
ytmachx 8 months ago
Those are some interesting prismatic crystals...
douro20 8 months ago
@douro20 Yes. Yes, they are.
ytmachx 8 months ago
I'm thinking you should be able to produce HCl as a byproduct, by filtering the waste gas (Hydrogen Chloride) through water. Maybe. If I had the proper equipment, I'd try it myself, but maybe someone else can try. Anyway, thanks for sharing where to find the mesh, was having trouble, google kept giving me issues looking for electrodes with various queries.
steidl001 8 months ago
@GUYSTUFFPRODUCTI0NS You need to be able to read the voltage and amperage dissipated across the cell to properly adjust the electrodes. The solution(electrolyte) needs to be kept warm/hot. This heat is usually provided by the electrolysis current.
ytmachx 8 months ago
I don't understand... I thought potassium chlorate was extremely hydroscopic. Wouldn't running all that ice water through it during the filtering ruin it?
BillyDa59 8 months ago
@BillyDa59 No, that's really not the case. KCIO3 is relatively insoluble in water and especially in cold water. KCIO4 is practically insoluble even in water at RT.
ytmachx 8 months ago
@sabdacrab7224 Anomet
ytmachx 8 months ago
Is it possible to use zirconium and stainless for the electrodes? I would like to try this, but have no plans on obtaining platinum for the electrode, far too expensive.
TunedCavityLasers 9 months ago
@TunedCavityLasers I don't know about the zirconium, but I can tell you that ALL common materials have been tried many years ago and carbon,PB02,MMO, and platinum were the only materials found to work sufficiently and Platinum came out the undisputed winner.
Fact: platinum clad electrode is not far too expensive. Mine were $135ea. (I spent more on the glassware)
ytmachx 9 months ago
@ytmachx
Thanks for the info.. Im not sure how common zirconium is but it has some unique properties and is found in nuclear reactors housing the fuel. It has a high corrosion resistance to acids etc and use it in my HHO generator. I would like to experiment and see if it serves any useful purpose in a set up similar to yours.
I Will be sure to let you know how it works out..
BTW, thought the platinum clad would be higher, 135$ is not bad at all. I had assumed it would be much more.
TunedCavityLasers 9 months ago
@ytmachx how large was your yeild? Im gonna guess and say it was around 550-600g?
Nitricthunder 9 months ago
@Nitricthunder The run shown in this vid was just about 900g
ytmachx 9 months ago
@ytmachx Nice!
Nitricthunder 9 months ago
@TunedCavityLasers Platinum is used in catalytic converters of cars' exhaust system. All you need is a neighbour, a tool bag and some basic 'engineering' skills.
WhiteKestrell 9 months ago
@WhiteKestrell
How about I send you the internals from a catalytic and you post a video of the process to extract...
It would be far cheaper and easier to purchase the same parts used in this video..
TunedCavityLasers 8 months ago
@TunedCavityLasers Cheaper!? Didn't meant a 'clean' extraction. Neighbour's car... Hammer and sheers... just hit and cut... hehe. Anyways it was humour (bad, maybe... ^_^) so didn't expect you would take that seriously, sorry. Hey you've got an HHO generator!? If uses electrolysis of water then what voltage and power source do you use? I've tried with about 5 AA cells (running on school pocket money here so limited resources :-P) in series but it was practically useless...
WhiteKestrell 8 months ago
@WhiteKestrell
From what I gather there can be up to 1.2g of platinum in a catalytic, but it is not a strip you can readily pull out.. It is impregnated in the comb amongst other materials and is not only a challenge in itself to extract, but also very dangerous and requires a meticulous process..
If you are making HHO, use a proper power supply.. there is tonnes of info and designs available on websites and instructional videos here on YT...
IIRC, the most common are PWM.
TunedCavityLasers 8 months ago
if you leave it long enough it will turn perchlorate?
ExplosiveAnyThing 9 months ago
@ExplosiveAnyThing No, it falls out of solution when it becomes chlorate.
ytmachx 9 months ago
@ytmachx oh i see so to make it perchlorate you need NaCl because is very soluble.
ExplosiveAnyThing 9 months ago
@ExplosiveAnyThing Yes, exactly!
ytmachx 9 months ago
well equipped an well executed
darrylportelli 9 months ago
@darrylportelli ThankYou
ytmachx 9 months ago
Can gold be used for one or both electrodes? If not, then why? Thank you.
likmahchoda 9 months ago
@likmahchoda I really don't know if it would work, but I think it might.. Gold is about half the price of platinum.
ytmachx 9 months ago
@ytmachx Thanks for your reply. Have you ever taken direct temperature measurements of your electrodes while running at maximum current?
likmahchoda 9 months ago
ytmachx, how long have you owned your platinum lattice for and how often do you use it in terms of days per year? I hear they last 20 years in industry, but know nothing on the thickness of the coat or how often they are used, although I imagine it everyday in ore processing. Do you perhaps have an estimate that you have heard somewhere for such small scale uses? I want to know if it is worth the investment as I am over using graphite anodes. Thanks mate.
Simlatio 9 months ago
@Simlatio I have just over 1000 hours on the electrode and I can't see any wear. It is most definitely worth the investment. The life of the electrode really depends how much current is dissipated through the electrode and the nature of the solution.
ytmachx 9 months ago
I must ask: could i use a copper or bismuth as a anode instead of a platinum? How much cost a net of sheet platinum metal?
staszek300 9 months ago
@staszek300 Copper does not work as an anode. Platinum is one of the most precious metals and is currently over $1800 per oz. A sheet of platinum screen large enough to make an anode like mine would probably be over $750, if you can find it.
ytmachx 9 months ago
could you use two stainless steel electrodes?
DraxVideos 10 months ago
@DraxVideos Please read the comments.
ytmachx 10 months ago
Could you tell me the formula, or how ever you decide, to know when to stop. I want to try to run for optimal KClO3 production, and not get KClO4. Right now I'm running it for 4 days. Thanks so much for your help so far.
JediBeowulf777 10 months ago
@JediBeowulf777 Roughly 3 amps per hour to convert .75g sodium chloride to chlorate.
Example; 3000ml /1140g sodium chloride @ 25 amps~140 hours (inefficiencies included)
ytmachx 10 months ago
@ytmachx Can you use more voltage to use less ampage to get the same watt-age?
astrialkil 9 months ago
Is potassium chlorate a more powerful oxidiser than potassium perchlorate.
Sb01343 11 months ago
@Sb01343 No
ytmachx 11 months ago