Isn't this about that old political tag perceived by non-Americans known as the outrageous opinion of an UGLY AMERICAN? Isn't this the ludicrous shit that has gotten our country in so much hot water in the past? When are we going to learn the virtue of SILENCE...?
The Muslim Brotherhood is a NWO front that will soon come to rule many OPEC countries. The Arabs will be betrayed by a weakening dollar caused by skyrocketing oil prices. They'll stop buying treasury bills (meaning NO MORE MIDDLE EASTERN OIL FOR OUR SOCIETY), and our paper money will become worth the paper it's printed on. This is the blueprint of the elite, and if all goes according to plan, the U.S. dollar will be worthless by the end of 2012.
Oh so a population doesn't deserve democracy if they don't believe in freedom & safety of others, and secular democracy? USA, hand in your voting rights please...
Do Republicans really think people are that stupid they don't know when they are being screwed by the RICH? When I say RICH I mean the Republicans and all their supporters and people that gave money to their election. Hope they all have private body guards. Remember Egypt!
I think like what Isrealian scholars says in other videoes, everyone should just shut up and let the Egyptians decide what to do...It is not like if you bitch more about them, the pro-demcrats and pro-theocrats will suddenly switch side, and it is their country after all, let the Egyptians decide which is a better future for themselves.
Egypt must reduce birthrates, if they want to increase their wealth. They cannot continue to double all 20 years. That is the real reason, why these countries are in such economic trouble.
@ChineseAtheist believe me its corruption , Egypt's incomet is huge , we ve many projects which can contribute to the favor of the ppl , BUT it all was cuz of corruption . now the regime is not yet over , but we are on the right path
I like the "democracy is an american instinct" line best, very good at taking credit for things that had absolutely nothing to do with them. Plato would mess that guy up.
@RealityGrapple : your point of view is short-sighted. The alternative of having such allies is war. Do you prefer war ? Towards those countries, it's carrot and stick : that's why we try to have good relations with them, despite their dictators. We do not care about their regime, if they're with us, they're rewarded (even Pakistan,...). Even Iran has been promised benefits if they cooperates with international community.
Your view is not short-sighted on the other hand but incredibly naive if you think the United States have some god-granted right to go everywhere they want and fuck the world up just because the people in a specific area want better living conditions which in turn might get you fuckers to pay some dollars more per gallon of oil or wtf.
The alternative is a change of discourse and stop thinking fat, hypocritical Americans are worth more than the rest billions of the world.
@RealityGrapple : "it's up to them". Indeed. But it's up to US to support Mubarak and other allies in the region. If they make elections, and the result being the army cancelling them because of the win of islamists, I deeply hope that we will support the decision of the egyptian army (to cancel thosee elections). That's what happened in Turkey frequently during the 20th century. That's what happened in Algeria in 1991 (France and the USA approved the decision to cancel the elections).
Not so long ago Fox news was extolling the virtues of bringing democracy to Muslim countries by US military intervention (note Iraq was also a secular country). But when the people in those countries want to do it themselves it's suddenly different, and they aren't capable of having democracy??? Also countries in the Muslim world can't embrace democracy? Turkey or Malaysia anyone...
@MrDragon1968 : Turkey is a special kind of democracy, where the army is regularly interfering in politics. The best precedent for Tunisia and Egypt is Algeria from 1990 and 1991, when the islamic FIS won 953 cities (on 1539) and 188 seats in the Parliament (on 231) against only 25 for socialists and 15 for the ruling FLN. The army had to cancel the electoral processus, to save Algeria from becoming an islamist country. With the support of international community. The right and good decision.
@ColonelHarry Well hold on. Turkey, by standards of 'newer' democracies set up in the 20thC, is a fairly normal democracy. They also have a pretty strict constitution. It takes quite a long time for democracies to fully embed themselves into society to the level we have say in the UK or the US. That is unless they've been thoroughly beaten & dominated into submission by world powers for good reason- as in West Germany & Japan after WW2.
@ColonelHarry The issues Algeria suffered had more to do with post colonialism than anything else. I think you should take a breath before assuming Egypt will go down the same route in 2011. I'm not saying it will turn out good in Egypt, but it's equally naive to assume it wont. Bottom line is they deserve the chance to democratically elect whom they want. If the results don't suit 'us' in the west it's too bad. We can't lecture people on democracy if we aren't prepared to live up to the result.
You're the clown, sir. Just look at the difference between India and Pakistan, to check what islam made from great english liberal institutions. I know that we used to say the same thing about Germany, Japan, Russia and South America, but the fact is that democracy in muslim world is a dangerous bet for us where we have allies. Look at Algeria in 1990, when the islamic FIS took over 80% of the seats. Result ? Army cancelled elections.
@ColonelHarry Dude. India descended into communism for almost half a century after 'great english liberal institutions' were installed during colonial times, when 'us' British (not English) left. Yes, India has turned out better than Pakistan, today, long after British colonialism ended; but having said that the British Empire put much more focus into putting infrastructure into India than Pakistan during the British Raj. You're trying to simplify history that's actually a lot more complex.
where does Fox get these idiots.... seriously... if you're an American and you still wonder why the middle east hates you so much..get your head out of the stone age people.. the world is moving on to better things, and sorry to say to these sorry Americans, you cant keep repressing any more. hypocritical animals
@mido4life: Do you know why Osama Bin Laden began hating the US in the first place? It has nothing to do with US freedom or US intervention in Islamic countries. Read a history book and realize that Bin Laden hates the US for stopping aide to Afghanistan when they were fighting off the communist Soviets.
The rest of the world hates us because everyone hates number 1. You hate us when we try to help and you hate us when we refuse to help. Now I don't give a fuck, because it's a Catch 22 anyway.
@shaven84 it's because we have an agreement that we get some benefits from all the money that we give to Egypt, and if that changes in any way, that means a huge loss in income for them...the reason for all of that in Iraq was because they had oil, and goddammit, they were gonna get it...
it's just business...that's all it ever is with these guys...
I'm also going to say that Ben's point about voting being human rights and choosing who can vote being imperialism is totally right.
All men and women have the right to choose their government. The US doesn't get to decide. The US was subsidizing Mubarak's regime....what could be a worse abuse of power than that?
Plus, these tools need to purge this idea that Christians are more civilized than Muslims. Christians are the inventors of the iron maiden and the thumb screw for fuck's sake.
@Redfingers Supporting Mubarak was a tricky situation. America needs to use the Suez Canal and have to at least be friendly to the gov't that controls it...or replace it...or wait until it's clear the people will out the current gov't and support the people. People's ethics change when they have to pay twice as much for cargo transport.
Let me put it this way, the Salem Witch Trials in the American colonies were in 1692, and the American Constitution was written in 1787, less than 100 years later.
We were burning witches in the same century as we were embracing democracy, these old codgers forget their Christian heritage.
In reality, when faced with the alternative of backwards bronze age superstitions, dark age barbarism, and the civility of the western liberal intellectual tradition, I say they will choose the latter.
I just want to say that these Fox News commentators are killing me. Who's to say that the Egyptians cannot become secularists when I am the first atheist in 10 generations of western Christian Europeans?
Maybe the Egyptians just like freedom?
Listen, I like religion as little as anybody else, but if the Puritanical Americans could put down their anus pokers and heretic burning pyres and make the United States of America with freedom of religion, who's to say the Egyptian Muslims can't?
Fox News: Clearly if they don't pick the type of democracy we want, then democracy in Egypt is evil.
Pathetic. The protests had nothing to do with secular acceptance. They can address that if and when they want to. Let them deal with the whole dictator thing first. I bet FOX is more surprised by the fact that it was a peaceful revolution. If things got violent they'd be like "Oh look at those crazy violent mooslims, see how violent Islam is?"
r u fkn kidding me they let this on TV ?!!. fkn racist pigs. wtf is that supposed to mean if we let them vote, terriorisom will expand? and they mention ill-educated americans LMAO look whos talking.
scheuer contradicts himself so much it is impossible to understand why anybody would take him seriously. so when the united states was born, a largely christian people decided to embrace a secular democracy over thousands of year of trust in the abrahamic faith, but because these people are muslim, they can't do the same? he's supposed to be an expert in the area? what about all the other non-theocracies of the middle east: turkey, yemen, uae, lebanon? why can't egypt go the route of turkey?
not to sound like a dick, but those dudes on the panel have a poin. Those muslims don't give a fuck about the freedom WE love and WE protect. They don't share the same white proud american values.
They are pro cutting off hands and heads, pro sharia law, pro anti-women legislation, they don't want freedom! they want to be free to do things THEIR way.
Whoa, wait a minuet...isn't Iraq a prodominantly muslim dominated nation? Aren't we trying to make a democracy there? Why can it work in Iraq, but all of a sudden not work in Egypt? Isn't there another religion that's about a thousand years older than Islam that also is dominated by thousands of years of faith that is trying to declare a democracy in the US and also out of the Middle East?
I guess I'm confused...boy I'm glad I have fox news to tell me these things...
Whoa, wait a minuet...isn't Iraq a prodominantly muslim dominated nation? Aren't we trying to make a democracy there? Why can it work in Iraq, but all of a sudden not work in Egypt? Isn't there another religion that's about a thousand years older than Islam that also is dominated by thousands of years of faith that is trying to declare a democracy in the US?
I guess I'm confused...boy I'm glad I have fox news to tell me these things...
They're only on democracy's side as long as it works in their favor. This self-righteous attitude that is allowing this men to act like the people of Egypt to enjoy the same democractic freedoms Americans and Europeans have for so long is not anything unique. Most country leaders meddle in the internal political affairs of vulnerable 3rd world countries and have been for a very long time. America has of course been a champ at this.
It's not about safety concerns. It's about profit and power.
@SupaAmi Actually the US has been absolutely shit at foreign policy as evidenced by the total collapse of their empire Afghanistan and Iraq will never turn a profit for the US. US power is gone, just like the Romans at the end.
This is one of the most condescending bigoted things I've ever heard. They're basically saying Muslims and Middle Easterners are incapable of democracy?
It's strange to reach for secular democracy? Maybe so, but the colonists in America did it over two hundred years ago despite centuries of repressive Christianity in Europe. They had to get past the puritanical bullshit they brought with them, but they eventually did it.
So ... What, Fox News is against Democracy now? Do they believe that anyone from the middle east isn't capable of having a voice in their own Government?
so its ok for christian s to rule politics like in america but if theres a muslim in charge its not alright.... thats nice to know america doesnt stand for what it originally stood for
It's not guaranteed either. And America can't be in every middle east country for 10+ years. As Cenk said, you drop a bomb on a guy's aunt, how you'd think he'll feel? Egypt is for Egypt's interests.
The Saudi's have sharia law, but we don't care because they give us oil.
@AmericanNohbuddy Fine, but Cenk's schtick regarding Egypt is the silly idea that a 'Democratic' revolution which results in Sharia Law will not be dangerous for the region. It will be extremely dangerous. You need to understand that while Cenk seems to be a smart impartial man, he has deep seated psychosis when it comes to Muslims. I wish it wasn't true but it is. It's the reason why TYT is 100% anti-Israel when they report on Israel.
@AmericanNohbuddy N... that silly argument was flushed down the toilet months ago. Try to come up with something other than a boring strawman argument...
@AmericanNohbuddy Saudi Arabia and Israel do not share a border. As for antisemites, the overwhelming evidence is that most people do not like Jews or Israel and never have. If you don't like that fact, it's really too bad.
@AmericanNohbuddy Sure I care. But Saudi Arabia is firmly under the control of the Saudis, whose main goal is to live off massive oil wealth. they have little to no desire to harm Israel. In fact, they favor bombing the fuck out of Iran.
@Asymmatrix Why would sharia law be dangerous for the region... Most the countries in that region already have sharia law. sharia law is just a backwards legal system... It would only effect egyptians. Under Mubarrack, the legal system was hopelessly corrupt, if you spoke out. You would be whisked off in the middle of the night, no trial, no rights, and tortured or killed.
Whatever legal system they choose, most likely it will be better. Though i prefer secular system.
@GhostInTheShell29 Because Sharis is Muslim Fundamentalist. the Palestinian cabinet resigned in anticipation of this very real possibility. It will mean massive Muslim opposition to Israel, which will create massive problems.
@GhostInTheShell29 at least absolute rulers care about the prosperity and peace of their country, since they benefit from it. Elected leaders don't give a shit, they just get a massive amount of power for a short amount of time if they can make enough promises and please the uneducates masses.
@Houshalter Well its not really fair to use America as an example of democracy. We are an example of what happens if you have a democracy with no checks and balances.
As long as egypt can have a free media and press. They shouldn't fall into the same pitfalls that we have. If great care is taken when drafting seperation of powers within their government as they write a new constituition. They can avoid our fate.
@GhostInTheShell29 all people shout "sharia laws" and never actually know "sharia laws" outside the media.
why do u think sharia law is bad can u give me one example ?
harsh punishment? well i tell u something , dont be a criminal easy ... actually we are not like you , we dont have thiefs everywhere ... we leave the cars open in the streets and no one steals anything inside. in your country they steal the whole car.
give me statistics of harsh punishment done in percentage.
@snaforfun Lose a hand if you steal, hanged if you're gay, stoned to death if you cheat on your husband. Such is life in Iran, which practices Sharia Law. Am I wrong?
@snaforfun No, you're not right, Barbaric bullshit like Sharia Law has no place in the 21st Century. You ok with gays being hanged to death? Pretty pathetic.
@snaforfun It doesn't work, it's fucking disgusting. Poor people will sometimes be driven to steal, period. Especially with an ass backward regime like Iran has or Egypt had. Egyptians live on $2 a day. Basing laws on religious bullshit is exactly what will lead to WW3 in the Mid East.
@Asymmatrix ok see how u are ignorant? in sharia laws , if u are poor and steal to eat and live . we dont cut ur hand.
try me , I am a student of sharia laws.
TRY ME ASK !
LAW : If some one steals to eat and hes poor , he is innocent and he is not jailed , the ruler and governer shold be blamed for not providing him with food and clothes.
LAW : in case of hunger and famine , the cut hand law is lifted untill it is back to normal
@snaforfun Oh, good you don't amputate hands for stealing Wasn't sure about that one (although I suspect its true anyway). You just hang gays for being gay and stone women to death for cheating on their husbands, who basically have all the rights. Go fuck yourself.
@Asymmatrix I dont talk with retards. since u insult me at end of ur talk ur IQ is very low so anything I say wouldnt be processed in ur tiny brain. thats why I am not explaining anymore .. unless u upgrade ur cpu m add some ram , and get a new solid state harddisk .. it will help u ... reach 10 more IQ
@Asymmatrix we dont have to coz we dont do it show me statistics and % of population
. have fun with ur 50% of kids "illegal" who dont know who their father is.
your problem is that you look at ur filthy community and say oh oh if we apply it we all gonna die we are all filth and cheaters and our sons are mostly bastards.
@snaforfun But sharia law is never enforced by God, or Muhammed, its enforced by governments. Thats the problem with religious systems. The "Ideal" sharia law laid out in your religion really might not be all that bad of a system. But its not the ideal system people get. Being a religious system is extremely easy to corrupt.
You say the Quran tells you to kill the raper. But in Iran the Quran tells you to kill the raped. Because interpretation is being done by men with agenda's.
@GhostInTheShell29 "But in Iran the Quran tells you to kill the raped. Because interpretation is being done by men with agenda's"
I understand the point you're trying to make but the true Quran DOES NOT tell ppl in Iran to kill the raped. It's the fault of ppl who use religion as a mask to do heinous things. It's a horrendous insult to the true teachings of the holy book. That's not interpretation. It's outright blasphemous corruption.
@uchihaangelus But the problem with your logic is you don't seem to realize. If a sharia judge enforces something that goes against the true principals of the Qu'ran... How would you correct that situation? The government has authority over the judge, but what if the government agrees with the judges position. You could challenge the judge on religious grounds but by going against a religious leader you could be accused of blasphemy. A crime that carries with it a death sentence.
@GhostInTheShell29 who said so ? you are comparing christian ways with Islamic ways.
the head of the caliphate "the ruler of the believers" once stood in the COURT , with a non Muslim JEW.
and guess what. the Jew won the case. for the lack of witnesses.
and guess what .. after the case ended the jews Declared himself Muslim. he said , I lied ... and u judged with justice for lack of witness a non muslim against the ruler!
there is NOTHING CALLED immunity for religious leaders in ISLAM.
@snaforfun When the Ayatolla khomeini first came to power he gave a big speech and he made many promises of how the government would change, that the government would provide for the people, ect. ect. Many promises.
Now obviously he lied and those promises were never fullfilled. So they made owning a copy of the tape punishable by death.
He's an Islamic ruler, In a country that has Sharia law. 100% immunity.
@GhostInTheShell29 bla bla bla. you are not a truth seeker. I tell you white u give me gray.
listen . shut up and go away. I told you Iran , Saudi Arabia are NOT 100% sharia laws and you know this .. want proof? u never look at sources . u try to FAKE the truth by using a well known Corrupt governments.
and you know Shia are minority in Islam. I sense from ur talk deception, and FAKERY .. GET LOST
@snaforfun :p sorry i'm not your average American. The constituition is a secular document no matter how hard the religious fundamentalists try to pervert it. I believe law should be based on pragmatic principles for creating a free and safe society with unalienable rights.
So America's system doesn't live up to that either. Its better then many countries, but still needs a lot of improvement too.
Your system is religious based so its always easy to corrupt it. All religions are.
@GhostInTheShell29 sorry the main difference here is that you put the constitution from the people THEN FOLLOW IT. the judge follow it and all country follow it. they cant say we dont MIX .
Sharia laws are FIXED and from GOD. we follow it.
it is man made laws VS GOD laws issue
it is not about separation. it is about REJECTION of GOD LAWS and taking in MAN laws.
the justice is in the "Independence" of the judge and the ways to prevent them from going against the book
There is nothing to suggest Sharia is actually from God. Just because you believe they are from God doesn't make it so.
Being able to amend and update laws is only 100% better than fixed immovable laws. What happens when laws affect a group of people in a negative unexpected way? Is it: well God wills it? Or do we take a hard look at the law, update it and adjust the fairest way possible?
@jesse1018 well the whole issue is about Egypt an Muslims countries.
as for god's laws .. well u have them without knowing. Atheists have NO laws. they believe in natural selection... they believe the strong stay and weak go ... actually inside if they can get away with a crime they dont mind coz they are smarter and deserve the money more than the weaker and is natural selection.
every good law came from GOD. they leech it then say there is no GOD ...
@snaforfun Atheists have all the laws of the country they live in... just like everyone else. Without laws there would be no freedom. If murder was legal we could never enjoy our lives knowing someone could kill us at any time. So in order for us to be selfish we need laws that promote a good society. Natural selection has nothing to do with atheism. Your thinking of social darwinism.
@snaforfun well, I wasn't expecting you to jump to secular ethics...but I'm game. But first I must point out that atheists cannot be mass grouped, we have no central doctrine. Strong, weak, these terms are inaccurate and misused. Try successful or unsuccessful. As for "getting away with it", atheists simply aren't compelled to do things out of fear of hell or promise of heaven, which sound pretty dishonest to me. Anyone with a brain realizes helping others will ultimately help themselves as well
@snaforfun Wow your incredible racism just came out right there. :p its kinda funny you a minority who will be judged by idiotic people for things your not responsible for. Will persecute another minority that you've been fed lies about.
The next time some racist asshole throws something out a car at you. or spits on you. Just remember you hold those same racist thoughts and believes about people you don't bother to try and understand.
@snaforfun 1- You first have to prove the laws come from God before you can make assumtions about it. 2- Secular laws are based on what works best, not the jungle 3- Animals don't have laws to follow, and if they aren't pack animals, they don't even have to follow accepted pack behavior 4- Atheists aren't in denial, God simply isn't a factor in our decision making process.
@jesse1018 1- why dont u goto islamic university and ask there I cant prove that here on youtube with ease.
2- na secular laws are based on Religion laws like it or not starting from the word "justice" to "dont lie" to "dont steal" to "dont betray etc. your athiest "faith" cant produce these laws.
3- animals dont have it proves we are not animals . and did not come from evolution as u say.
Well, in spite of everything else in your post being wrong, I won't hold it against you, because at least you got #4 right, which is more than I can say for most of you religious types.
I don't need an imaginary friend to understand that it is counter-productive to hit someone's head with a hammer. I just have to think about the consequences and implications. Empathy is instinctive for every highly intelligent and communicative species.
You are slave of your ignorance and have no idea of the true nature of freedom.
@jimalbi well the atheist dont think so. they believe in the best stays and the weak dies.
actually I saw atheist talk in forums... once a man was killed by a baby carrying a gun... they said thank nature good riddance of stupid man didnt take the gun away from the kid he deserves to die.
they have it inside. thats why atheist dont respect the laws in wars .. dont value human kind and see them as numbers .. let the nature take care of it right ?
@snaforfun Again I feel the need to tell you that you can't group atheists in one ideology, we..have..no..central..doctrine. This "the weak die" mentality is all wrong, and again, innaccurate. And natural selection is the mechanism of evolution, not the tennants of gov't. Please try to differentiate the two. And please, please remember that evoking the word GOD doesn't mean anything to atheists, it's like me saying there's no laws without Zeus. You have to argue from logic.
@jesse1018 u are very good when playing with words. ok ?
I ve seen what atheists did in wars and how many they killed.
starting from the USSR to modern days atheists. they dont value human life at all.
and what is your Logic ? huh ? a random mix up can make a car or a plane ? this whole universe done by Random ? bleh ...
logically , even if u SAY manage to get earth by random u will need some one to isolate it and save it from the destruction the billion failed attempts.
@snaforfun Just as wars fought by religous men were often about land and resources, not religion, wars fought by atheists were not fought for atheism, but for land or resources. Before you blanket all atheists as killers, look at the percentages in prison populations. Far, far less atheists vs religous in prision. Less atheists get divorced, I can do this all day.
The random parts analogy is completely false on many levels, too many for 500 characters. And I'm unclear on the 'failed attempts'?
@snaforfun what the fuck you stupid bitch, you have no idea what atheism means and unless you are going to show the forum you "recall" don't bring it up because it sounds like bullshit to me. what was george bush's excuse for getting america in the idiotic war is are in?? wasn't he doing GOD's job? following the steps of jesus? atheist respect life because for them this is all there is, you are not going to the afterlife.
@snaforfun you have no clue of what you are talking about, i wasn't attacking christianity, i was defending atheism you said some ignorant shit about atheism i was using your piece of shit logic against you... btw islam is as bad as christianism so shut the fuck up... btw false logic is called fallacy you illiterate motherfucker
@Scratch912 sure if ur atheism made u say motherfucker without feeling bad about it .. I wonder what will stop u from insulting other people mothers ...
@snaforfun not other people'S mothers it would just be yours by the way mother fucker is not insulting YOUR mother per se, it means you fuck mothers... get it?? i don't think so but its not easy when you are logic impaired... i don't feel bad because that is what you inspire from me, and i truly believe every word i say about you fucking hillbilly
@snaforfun So your telling me the kid should have had a gun in his hand? the child should be allowed to fire a gun? "The Laws" have not been created by any "God", laws are created by the community and the society of which we live in. If it were socailly acceptable to end a life, it would be legal, but due to the negative stigma, the hurt felt by victims and the remorse felt by many of the perpetrators, murder is illegal. GOD IS A FIGMENT OF YOUR MIND. THERE IS NO PROOF. Please show me proof.
You know, it's funny to think that religious foundies like you are right-wingers and against social help program, pro-guns and pro-death penalty. Your politics are so «survival-of-the-fittest»-based but you are always in total denial about it.
I got a problem with your "without GOD laws there is no laws" i just wanna point out thats false, lets take a look in a book written more recently and learn something read a sociology book.
now actually most laws are made out of social norms society sets in motion, for instance lets say you kill someone and someone else does not like that it is looked down upon by others and eventually to stop the killings the authoritive figures set in motion laws to stop you from doing that.
@furverus u went to the killing why such extreme thing? why not talk about lies , deception , stealing whithout getting caught ? wars ? killing weak nations and taking their resources ?
when the "strong" can get away with it without being punished .. he will do it ... if atheist... and the part of him rejecting it comes from Religion and justice in religion...
i was just using killing as an example as for what you stated the same can be said, while yes the "strong" can get away with it if u mean those with money that can buy their way out (thats a different topic) im talking about how laws were made. i have an honest question and please take it seriously
Everyone knows there were people around before the bible was around, do you believe before then that every homo sapien was a lawless human killing and lieing without remorse?
@snaforfun I can't help but notice that you disregard my arguements against your notion 'the strong' getting away with bad deeds. IT IS NOT WHAT ATHEISTS BELIEVE. Can you please acknowledge that one thing?
@snaforfun How am I interfering? You are comparing "man's law" to "God's law". I'm simply weighing in.
Also, any gov't requires a minimum budget to operate. In an all volunteer system, you can't rely on a steady in flow. And no interest? How does that bank make money? What is it's incentive to operate?
@jesse1018 read about Islamic Banking system. they are surviving the financial crises now.
they gain money as PARTNERS. u put your money there you are a full partner in the bank project and income. u may loose or gain and is not fixed percentage.
as for currency , it is fixed value. that is it keeps its value with time coz it is not paper and ink , it is GOLD.
and if u trade GOLD for GOLD must be same weight. this way no one can steal currency and say went down.
Isn't this about that old political tag perceived by non-Americans known as the outrageous opinion of an UGLY AMERICAN? Isn't this the ludicrous shit that has gotten our country in so much hot water in the past? When are we going to learn the virtue of SILENCE...?
deetjay1 1 week ago
should of said rips on democracy and acts like rascists.. democracy an american instinct??? really the US isnt even a "democracy"..
wannabchomsky 7 months ago
who are these guys? douche bags,...
fistedsaxe 9 months ago
The Muslim Brotherhood is a NWO front that will soon come to rule many OPEC countries. The Arabs will be betrayed by a weakening dollar caused by skyrocketing oil prices. They'll stop buying treasury bills (meaning NO MORE MIDDLE EASTERN OIL FOR OUR SOCIETY), and our paper money will become worth the paper it's printed on. This is the blueprint of the elite, and if all goes according to plan, the U.S. dollar will be worthless by the end of 2012.
tl;dr AMERICANS MUST UNITE NOW
iamsmeemo 1 year ago
Silly brown people! Democracy is for white people only!
Schnippshly 1 year ago 2
Oh so a population doesn't deserve democracy if they don't believe in freedom & safety of others, and secular democracy? USA, hand in your voting rights please...
MyTemporaryAccount88 1 year ago
TUM-ult? Is-LAM? Speak American, you Fox News Anti-American asshole.
aaronsande 1 year ago
... I'm surprised there isn't a show called "Dumb & Pretty! on FOX NEWS" :)
"Principles before Personalities" means something completely different to FOX NEWS.
:)
:P
Joxman2k 1 year ago
Do Republicans really think people are that stupid they don't know when they are being screwed by the RICH? When I say RICH I mean the Republicans and all their supporters and people that gave money to their election. Hope they all have private body guards. Remember Egypt!
Pellegrino80 1 year ago
The Right don't care about an Islamic Theocracy, they deal with them every day.
They'd love another Ahmadinejad to justify the new Cold War they're calling for, or a House of Al Sabah to do business with.
They worry about another Nasser, an Eastern Chavez.
That's what makes their pink little sphincters implode.
PRIVATEAYEIEYE 1 year ago
I think like what Isrealian scholars says in other videoes, everyone should just shut up and let the Egyptians decide what to do...It is not like if you bitch more about them, the pro-demcrats and pro-theocrats will suddenly switch side, and it is their country after all, let the Egyptians decide which is a better future for themselves.
Balencian 1 year ago
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The Right don't care about an Islamic Theocracy, they deal with them every day.
They'd love another Ahmadinejad to justify the new Cold War they're calling for, or a House of Al Sabah to do business with.
They worry about another Nasser, an Eastern Chavez.
That's what makes their pink little sphincters implode.
PRIVATEAYEIEYE 1 year ago
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PRIVATEAYEIEYE 1 year ago
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PRIVATEAYEIEYE 1 year ago
In 1800, Egypt had 2,5 million inhabitants.
In 1900 it was 12 million.
In 1981 it was 45 million
In 2011 it is 85 million
Egypt must reduce birthrates, if they want to increase their wealth. They cannot continue to double all 20 years. That is the real reason, why these countries are in such economic trouble.
ChineseAtheist 1 year ago
@ChineseAtheist believe me its corruption , Egypt's incomet is huge , we ve many projects which can contribute to the favor of the ppl , BUT it all was cuz of corruption . now the regime is not yet over , but we are on the right path
supersuper18 1 year ago
It is their country, it is none of your fucking business.
Elmaln 1 year ago
je souhaite au peuple egyptien quil connaisse une vraie democratie et que la paix avec nous israel continue/
lilibarm 1 year ago
Does America even accept Secular Democracy?
ShallowBeThyGames 1 year ago
I like the "democracy is an american instinct" line best, very good at taking credit for things that had absolutely nothing to do with them. Plato would mess that guy up.
Erebusmc 1 year ago
@RealityGrapple : your point of view is short-sighted. The alternative of having such allies is war. Do you prefer war ? Towards those countries, it's carrot and stick : that's why we try to have good relations with them, despite their dictators. We do not care about their regime, if they're with us, they're rewarded (even Pakistan,...). Even Iran has been promised benefits if they cooperates with international community.
ColonelHarry 1 year ago
@ColonelHarry ---
Your view is not short-sighted on the other hand but incredibly naive if you think the United States have some god-granted right to go everywhere they want and fuck the world up just because the people in a specific area want better living conditions which in turn might get you fuckers to pay some dollars more per gallon of oil or wtf.
The alternative is a change of discourse and stop thinking fat, hypocritical Americans are worth more than the rest billions of the world.
underbjorn 1 year ago
@RealityGrapple : "it's up to them". Indeed. But it's up to US to support Mubarak and other allies in the region. If they make elections, and the result being the army cancelling them because of the win of islamists, I deeply hope that we will support the decision of the egyptian army (to cancel thosee elections). That's what happened in Turkey frequently during the 20th century. That's what happened in Algeria in 1991 (France and the USA approved the decision to cancel the elections).
ColonelHarry 1 year ago
Not so long ago Fox news was extolling the virtues of bringing democracy to Muslim countries by US military intervention (note Iraq was also a secular country). But when the people in those countries want to do it themselves it's suddenly different, and they aren't capable of having democracy??? Also countries in the Muslim world can't embrace democracy? Turkey or Malaysia anyone...
MrDragon1968 1 year ago 3
@MrDragon1968 : Turkey is a special kind of democracy, where the army is regularly interfering in politics. The best precedent for Tunisia and Egypt is Algeria from 1990 and 1991, when the islamic FIS won 953 cities (on 1539) and 188 seats in the Parliament (on 231) against only 25 for socialists and 15 for the ruling FLN. The army had to cancel the electoral processus, to save Algeria from becoming an islamist country. With the support of international community. The right and good decision.
ColonelHarry 1 year ago
@ColonelHarry Well hold on. Turkey, by standards of 'newer' democracies set up in the 20thC, is a fairly normal democracy. They also have a pretty strict constitution. It takes quite a long time for democracies to fully embed themselves into society to the level we have say in the UK or the US. That is unless they've been thoroughly beaten & dominated into submission by world powers for good reason- as in West Germany & Japan after WW2.
MrDragon1968 1 year ago
@ColonelHarry The issues Algeria suffered had more to do with post colonialism than anything else. I think you should take a breath before assuming Egypt will go down the same route in 2011. I'm not saying it will turn out good in Egypt, but it's equally naive to assume it wont. Bottom line is they deserve the chance to democratically elect whom they want. If the results don't suit 'us' in the west it's too bad. We can't lecture people on democracy if we aren't prepared to live up to the result.
MrDragon1968 1 year ago
2:10 "that's clownish and horrible"
You're the clown, sir. Just look at the difference between India and Pakistan, to check what islam made from great english liberal institutions. I know that we used to say the same thing about Germany, Japan, Russia and South America, but the fact is that democracy in muslim world is a dangerous bet for us where we have allies. Look at Algeria in 1990, when the islamic FIS took over 80% of the seats. Result ? Army cancelled elections.
ColonelHarry 1 year ago
@ColonelHarry Dude. India descended into communism for almost half a century after 'great english liberal institutions' were installed during colonial times, when 'us' British (not English) left. Yes, India has turned out better than Pakistan, today, long after British colonialism ended; but having said that the British Empire put much more focus into putting infrastructure into India than Pakistan during the British Raj. You're trying to simplify history that's actually a lot more complex.
MrDragon1968 1 year ago
where does Fox get these idiots.... seriously... if you're an American and you still wonder why the middle east hates you so much..get your head out of the stone age people.. the world is moving on to better things, and sorry to say to these sorry Americans, you cant keep repressing any more. hypocritical animals
.
mido4life 1 year ago 23
@mido4life: Do you know why Osama Bin Laden began hating the US in the first place? It has nothing to do with US freedom or US intervention in Islamic countries. Read a history book and realize that Bin Laden hates the US for stopping aide to Afghanistan when they were fighting off the communist Soviets.
The rest of the world hates us because everyone hates number 1. You hate us when we try to help and you hate us when we refuse to help. Now I don't give a fuck, because it's a Catch 22 anyway.
CDubSD 1 year ago
@mido4life You're blaming all Americans for the views of a few, i.e. Fox "News" viewers. Most Americans don't think that way so calm the hell down.
NewYorkCityUSA7 1 year ago
DUR HURR if you are muslim you cant haz democracy cuz you iz muslim and you cant believe in iz
arga400 1 year ago
Where the fuck was this rhetoric when they decided to god damn invade Afgan & Iraq!?!?!? I can't stand these pompous ass, fucks!
shaven84 1 year ago 33
@shaven84 it's because we have an agreement that we get some benefits from all the money that we give to Egypt, and if that changes in any way, that means a huge loss in income for them...the reason for all of that in Iraq was because they had oil, and goddammit, they were gonna get it...
it's just business...that's all it ever is with these guys...
MoPapparani 1 year ago
They are horrible pieces of shit
RectorCR 1 year ago 2
So according to fox news DEMOCRACY aspect , we middle easterns are not supposed to ve democracy in our countries !!! AINT THIS HYPOCRISY !!
supersuper18 1 year ago
@supersuper18 Democracy is an evil Western concept, no?
VictimOfBoredom 1 year ago
@supersuper18 except irak we have to have "democracy" thare ;D
arga400 1 year ago
@supersuper18 it is :)
trapedd 1 year ago
So in other words, we don't want to give Egypt a chance for democracy? Is that what Fox News is saying? Really?
Hey, isn't that what the British said about U.S. when we had OUR revolution?
sdcazares1980 1 year ago 4
need to go
see ya
snaforfun 1 year ago
I'm also going to say that Ben's point about voting being human rights and choosing who can vote being imperialism is totally right.
All men and women have the right to choose their government. The US doesn't get to decide. The US was subsidizing Mubarak's regime....what could be a worse abuse of power than that?
Plus, these tools need to purge this idea that Christians are more civilized than Muslims. Christians are the inventors of the iron maiden and the thumb screw for fuck's sake.
Redfingers 1 year ago
@Redfingers Supporting Mubarak was a tricky situation. America needs to use the Suez Canal and have to at least be friendly to the gov't that controls it...or replace it...or wait until it's clear the people will out the current gov't and support the people. People's ethics change when they have to pay twice as much for cargo transport.
jesse1018 1 year ago
Let me put it this way, the Salem Witch Trials in the American colonies were in 1692, and the American Constitution was written in 1787, less than 100 years later.
We were burning witches in the same century as we were embracing democracy, these old codgers forget their Christian heritage.
In reality, when faced with the alternative of backwards bronze age superstitions, dark age barbarism, and the civility of the western liberal intellectual tradition, I say they will choose the latter.
Redfingers 1 year ago
I just want to say that these Fox News commentators are killing me. Who's to say that the Egyptians cannot become secularists when I am the first atheist in 10 generations of western Christian Europeans?
Maybe the Egyptians just like freedom?
Listen, I like religion as little as anybody else, but if the Puritanical Americans could put down their anus pokers and heretic burning pyres and make the United States of America with freedom of religion, who's to say the Egyptian Muslims can't?
Redfingers 1 year ago
This is the reason why I think republicans should be able to vote because they vote republican.
RaynMan718 1 year ago
Stupid ass fox news' commentator. Stupid ass imperialist.
ewertonal 1 year ago
Every country deserves their leader...period. if they permit a dictator, then they shall have it, if they want a democratic president then so be it.
Vladimir0538 1 year ago
Fox News: Clearly if they don't pick the type of democracy we want, then democracy in Egypt is evil.
Pathetic. The protests had nothing to do with secular acceptance. They can address that if and when they want to. Let them deal with the whole dictator thing first. I bet FOX is more surprised by the fact that it was a peaceful revolution. If things got violent they'd be like "Oh look at those crazy violent mooslims, see how violent Islam is?"
jesse1018 1 year ago
r u fkn kidding me they let this on TV ?!!. fkn racist pigs. wtf is that supposed to mean if we let them vote, terriorisom will expand? and they mention ill-educated americans LMAO look whos talking.
TheCursedBanana 1 year ago
i hate republicans... i hate them so much
are they all retarded or what? why do they talk about things they know nothing about and use completely made up incorrect facts?
tarnishedmercury 1 year ago
scheuer contradicts himself so much it is impossible to understand why anybody would take him seriously. so when the united states was born, a largely christian people decided to embrace a secular democracy over thousands of year of trust in the abrahamic faith, but because these people are muslim, they can't do the same? he's supposed to be an expert in the area? what about all the other non-theocracies of the middle east: turkey, yemen, uae, lebanon? why can't egypt go the route of turkey?
tyrannosaurusinf14 1 year ago
Egypt is one of the most secular countries in that region.
1samothrace77 1 year ago
Hypocrisy if I ever saw it.
They won't embrace democracy because it's foreign but it's okay if we try an shove it down their throats. (Iraq)
xxmastermixx 1 year ago
how is democracy alien to that region?
HeyHeyHey8I 1 year ago
not to sound like a dick, but those dudes on the panel have a poin. Those muslims don't give a fuck about the freedom WE love and WE protect. They don't share the same white proud american values.
They are pro cutting off hands and heads, pro sharia law, pro anti-women legislation, they don't want freedom! they want to be free to do things THEIR way.
God bless america and america only!
Pull0utBoy 1 year ago
@Pull0utBoy don't worry you didn't sound like a dick, just like an ignorant provincial fool.
GhostInTheShell29 1 year ago
Has anyone ever noticed that just about every female on Fox News is blonde and and always shows alot of leg?
sikvenum82 1 year ago
Whoa, wait a minuet...isn't Iraq a prodominantly muslim dominated nation? Aren't we trying to make a democracy there? Why can it work in Iraq, but all of a sudden not work in Egypt? Isn't there another religion that's about a thousand years older than Islam that also is dominated by thousands of years of faith that is trying to declare a democracy in the US and also out of the Middle East?
I guess I'm confused...boy I'm glad I have fox news to tell me these things...
Balsology 1 year ago
Whoa, wait a minuet...isn't Iraq a prodominantly muslim dominated nation? Aren't we trying to make a democracy there? Why can it work in Iraq, but all of a sudden not work in Egypt? Isn't there another religion that's about a thousand years older than Islam that also is dominated by thousands of years of faith that is trying to declare a democracy in the US?
I guess I'm confused...boy I'm glad I have fox news to tell me these things...
Balsology 1 year ago
They're only on democracy's side as long as it works in their favor. This self-righteous attitude that is allowing this men to act like the people of Egypt to enjoy the same democractic freedoms Americans and Europeans have for so long is not anything unique. Most country leaders meddle in the internal political affairs of vulnerable 3rd world countries and have been for a very long time. America has of course been a champ at this.
It's not about safety concerns. It's about profit and power.
SupaAmi 1 year ago
@SupaAmi This is like the best comment here..
oprichniki12 1 year ago
@SupaAmi Actually the US has been absolutely shit at foreign policy as evidenced by the total collapse of their empire Afghanistan and Iraq will never turn a profit for the US. US power is gone, just like the Romans at the end.
nilbud 1 year ago
Fox i mean Faux News...never ceases to spew hateful and ignorant remarks...i cannot believe America has become this stupid.....so sad......
FabFashionista89 1 year ago
Secular democracy sure would be nice here in the U.S.
dizzymasekela 1 year ago
This is one of the most condescending bigoted things I've ever heard. They're basically saying Muslims and Middle Easterners are incapable of democracy?
watermelonygoodness 1 year ago
Democracy is an American instinct? did Amurrica patent Democracy?
InTheMistByTheHills 1 year ago
@InTheMistByTheHills appearantly Fox News History says that.
Warpmek 1 year ago
so basically "democracy is only good if we get to pick"
coadynoel 1 year ago
Republicans don't like Democracy
borimirtheboring 1 year ago
It's strange to reach for secular democracy? Maybe so, but the colonists in America did it over two hundred years ago despite centuries of repressive Christianity in Europe. They had to get past the puritanical bullshit they brought with them, but they eventually did it.
I believe Egypt can do it too.
quidproquo2004 1 year ago
So democracy is only for white people? good to know douchbags republicans
etazra78 1 year ago
Americans were under a monarchy before the Revolution! Democracy was strange and unfamiliar to them!
RadarKat73080 1 year ago
Deplorable.
ibwilliamsi 1 year ago
we barely embrace SECULAR democracy... I hope egypt can!
RavenBlaze 1 year ago
So ... What, Fox News is against Democracy now? Do they believe that anyone from the middle east isn't capable of having a voice in their own Government?
smartin807 1 year ago
No, that silly argument was flushed down the toilet months ago. Try to come up with something other than a boring strawman.
Asymmatrix 1 year ago
its too much to put your faith in humanity right Fox News?
jbeihl1 1 year ago
so its ok for christian s to rule politics like in america but if theres a muslim in charge its not alright.... thats nice to know america doesnt stand for what it originally stood for
houbow 1 year ago
"This is the middle east. People there are too stupid and backward to know how to do anything without our help"
xxpalmerxx 1 year ago
Cenk just got pwned into the ground by a Neocon on MSNBC over Egypt. Cenk is an ideologue in severe denial.
Asymmatrix 1 year ago
@Asymmatrix
Still trollin'?
AmericanNohbuddy 1 year ago
@AmericanNohbuddy It was funny to see Cenk squirm when his Neocon guest pointed out the fact that 70% (?) of Egyptians favor Sharia Law. Priceless.
Asymmatrix 1 year ago
@Asymmatrix
Yeah, and if they vote for it we should bomb them right? And bomb Iran too?
Saudi Arabia has it right now, I doubt that guy cared.
AmericanNohbuddy 1 year ago
@AmericanNohbuddy No, but it will not create stability in the region. Quite the opposite. Cenk is oblivious.
Asymmatrix 1 year ago
@Asymmatrix
It's not guaranteed either. And America can't be in every middle east country for 10+ years. As Cenk said, you drop a bomb on a guy's aunt, how you'd think he'll feel? Egypt is for Egypt's interests.
The Saudi's have sharia law, but we don't care because they give us oil.
AmericanNohbuddy 1 year ago
@AmericanNohbuddy Fine, but Cenk's schtick regarding Egypt is the silly idea that a 'Democratic' revolution which results in Sharia Law will not be dangerous for the region. It will be extremely dangerous. You need to understand that while Cenk seems to be a smart impartial man, he has deep seated psychosis when it comes to Muslims. I wish it wasn't true but it is. It's the reason why TYT is 100% anti-Israel when they report on Israel.
Asymmatrix 1 year ago
@Asymmatrix
Because you're not allowed to criticize israel right? All you care about is bashing Cenk on Israel. Never see you comment on anything else.
Once again the Saudi's have sharia. Do you want to do something about it?
AmericanNohbuddy 1 year ago
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@AmericanNohbuddy No, that silly argument was flushed down the toilet months ago. Try to come up with something other than a boring strawman.
Asymmatrix 1 year ago
@AmericanNohbuddy N... that silly argument was flushed down the toilet months ago. Try to come up with something other than a boring strawman argument...
Asymmatrix 1 year ago
@Asymmatrix
Not when you say something criticizing israel and you get called an anti semite and want the jews to die.
But answer my question, the Saudis have sharia too. What should the US do with them?
AmericanNohbuddy 1 year ago
@AmericanNohbuddy Saudi Arabia and Israel do not share a border. As for antisemites, the overwhelming evidence is that most people do not like Jews or Israel and never have. If you don't like that fact, it's really too bad.
Asymmatrix 1 year ago
@Asymmatrix
They aren't that far apart either. So you don't care what happens to the Saudi people being oppressed?
I said if you criticize israel you get called an anti semite and hate jews.
AmericanNohbuddy 1 year ago
@AmericanNohbuddy Sure I care. But Saudi Arabia is firmly under the control of the Saudis, whose main goal is to live off massive oil wealth. they have little to no desire to harm Israel. In fact, they favor bombing the fuck out of Iran.
Asymmatrix 1 year ago
@Asymmatrix
So what if they had Shariah and didn't want to blow up Israel?
AmericanNohbuddy 1 year ago
@AmericanNohbuddy Yes, because Saudi Arabia is a tightly controlled country with massive oil wealth. Egypt is becoming an actual Democracy.
Asymmatrix 1 year ago
@Asymmatrix Why would sharia law be dangerous for the region... Most the countries in that region already have sharia law. sharia law is just a backwards legal system... It would only effect egyptians. Under Mubarrack, the legal system was hopelessly corrupt, if you spoke out. You would be whisked off in the middle of the night, no trial, no rights, and tortured or killed.
Whatever legal system they choose, most likely it will be better. Though i prefer secular system.
GhostInTheShell29 1 year ago
@GhostInTheShell29 Because Sharis is Muslim Fundamentalist. the Palestinian cabinet resigned in anticipation of this very real possibility. It will mean massive Muslim opposition to Israel, which will create massive problems.
Asymmatrix 1 year ago
@GhostInTheShell29 at least absolute rulers care about the prosperity and peace of their country, since they benefit from it. Elected leaders don't give a shit, they just get a massive amount of power for a short amount of time if they can make enough promises and please the uneducates masses.
Houshalter 1 year ago
@Houshalter Well its not really fair to use America as an example of democracy. We are an example of what happens if you have a democracy with no checks and balances.
As long as egypt can have a free media and press. They shouldn't fall into the same pitfalls that we have. If great care is taken when drafting seperation of powers within their government as they write a new constituition. They can avoid our fate.
GhostInTheShell29 1 year ago
@GhostInTheShell29 all people shout "sharia laws" and never actually know "sharia laws" outside the media.
why do u think sharia law is bad can u give me one example ?
harsh punishment? well i tell u something , dont be a criminal easy ... actually we are not like you , we dont have thiefs everywhere ... we leave the cars open in the streets and no one steals anything inside. in your country they steal the whole car.
give me statistics of harsh punishment done in percentage.
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun Lose a hand if you steal, hanged if you're gay, stoned to death if you cheat on your husband. Such is life in Iran, which practices Sharia Law. Am I wrong?
Asymmatrix 1 year ago
@Asymmatrix dont steal . dont practice gay and goto doctor and cure ur mental problems , dont cheat on ur husband.
am I right?
harsh punishment is a prevention more than barbarity. plus u are defending .000001 % of the community
as I said ... we dont have it in high percentage.
plus give me statistics dont shout "barbaric"
ur problem is u compare to ur community where 50% have illegal sex and 50% would steal if he knows he wouldnt be caught and get away with it.
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun No, you're not right, Barbaric bullshit like Sharia Law has no place in the 21st Century. You ok with gays being hanged to death? Pretty pathetic.
Asymmatrix 1 year ago
@Asymmatrix yes i am right and it works. ur system is full of thiefs and broken families every where.
u can defend the criminals and give them rights more than the victims as u wish . but do it in your country.
and you are the bull shit.
u steal we cut ur hand ... so DONT STEAL. easy. not like i steal 10 millions goto jail 5 years and then go out and enjoy them
as I said it worked and we live in SAFE environment.
if u are all thiefs then shame on u .
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun It doesn't work, it's fucking disgusting. Poor people will sometimes be driven to steal, period. Especially with an ass backward regime like Iran has or Egypt had. Egyptians live on $2 a day. Basing laws on religious bullshit is exactly what will lead to WW3 in the Mid East.
Asymmatrix 1 year ago
@Asymmatrix ok see how u are ignorant? in sharia laws , if u are poor and steal to eat and live . we dont cut ur hand.
try me , I am a student of sharia laws.
TRY ME ASK !
LAW : If some one steals to eat and hes poor , he is innocent and he is not jailed , the ruler and governer shold be blamed for not providing him with food and clothes.
LAW : in case of hunger and famine , the cut hand law is lifted untill it is back to normal
TRY ME ! GET EDUCATED
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun Oh, good you don't amputate hands for stealing Wasn't sure about that one (although I suspect its true anyway). You just hang gays for being gay and stone women to death for cheating on their husbands, who basically have all the rights. Go fuck yourself.
Asymmatrix 1 year ago
@Asymmatrix I dont talk with retards. since u insult me at end of ur talk ur IQ is very low so anything I say wouldnt be processed in ur tiny brain. thats why I am not explaining anymore .. unless u upgrade ur cpu m add some ram , and get a new solid state harddisk .. it will help u ... reach 10 more IQ
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun Yeah ok. Go stone a woman for death for cheating on her master, I mean 'husband.' Have fun in the 14th Century.
Asymmatrix 1 year ago
@Asymmatrix we dont have to coz we dont do it show me statistics and % of population
. have fun with ur 50% of kids "illegal" who dont know who their father is.
your problem is that you look at ur filthy community and say oh oh if we apply it we all gonna die we are all filth and cheaters and our sons are mostly bastards.
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun lol@ 50% you need to stop listening to your Mullahs. Go hang a gay man mr moron.
Asymmatrix 1 year ago
@snaforfun You are educated in what countries version of Sharia law?
GhostInTheShell29 1 year ago
@GhostInTheShell29 the sources , the Holy Quran and the prophet sayings. not the countries.
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun But sharia law is never enforced by God, or Muhammed, its enforced by governments. Thats the problem with religious systems. The "Ideal" sharia law laid out in your religion really might not be all that bad of a system. But its not the ideal system people get. Being a religious system is extremely easy to corrupt.
You say the Quran tells you to kill the raper. But in Iran the Quran tells you to kill the raped. Because interpretation is being done by men with agenda's.
GhostInTheShell29 1 year ago
@GhostInTheShell29 your argument is same even in USA. when u have corrupt government they corrupt the laws .
Bush illegaly invaded and destroyed Iraq. your system couldnt stop him
YOUR lawyers DEFEND thiefs and RAPERS and MAFIA BOSSES using HOLES in the system , and they get away with it.
thats why people REVOLT against the Dictator and APPLY the truth.
when corruption happens , it happens EVERYWHERE.
u should compare the Effectiveness of the laws for a BETTER place to live.
snaforfun 1 year ago
@GhostInTheShell29 "But in Iran the Quran tells you to kill the raped. Because interpretation is being done by men with agenda's"
I understand the point you're trying to make but the true Quran DOES NOT tell ppl in Iran to kill the raped. It's the fault of ppl who use religion as a mask to do heinous things. It's a horrendous insult to the true teachings of the holy book. That's not interpretation. It's outright blasphemous corruption.
uchihaangelus 1 year ago
@uchihaangelus But the problem with your logic is you don't seem to realize. If a sharia judge enforces something that goes against the true principals of the Qu'ran... How would you correct that situation? The government has authority over the judge, but what if the government agrees with the judges position. You could challenge the judge on religious grounds but by going against a religious leader you could be accused of blasphemy. A crime that carries with it a death sentence.
GhostInTheShell29 1 year ago
@GhostInTheShell29 who said so ? you are comparing christian ways with Islamic ways.
the head of the caliphate "the ruler of the believers" once stood in the COURT , with a non Muslim JEW.
and guess what. the Jew won the case. for the lack of witnesses.
and guess what .. after the case ended the jews Declared himself Muslim. he said , I lied ... and u judged with justice for lack of witness a non muslim against the ruler!
there is NOTHING CALLED immunity for religious leaders in ISLAM.
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun When the Ayatolla khomeini first came to power he gave a big speech and he made many promises of how the government would change, that the government would provide for the people, ect. ect. Many promises.
Now obviously he lied and those promises were never fullfilled. So they made owning a copy of the tape punishable by death.
He's an Islamic ruler, In a country that has Sharia law. 100% immunity.
GhostInTheShell29 1 year ago
@GhostInTheShell29 bla bla bla. you are not a truth seeker. I tell you white u give me gray.
listen . shut up and go away. I told you Iran , Saudi Arabia are NOT 100% sharia laws and you know this .. want proof? u never look at sources . u try to FAKE the truth by using a well known Corrupt governments.
and you know Shia are minority in Islam. I sense from ur talk deception, and FAKERY .. GET LOST
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun Sharia law is always enforced by governments. If there is any corruption at all in government, then it also transfers into the religion.
It always happens. Also it works the other way, corruption in the religion gets into the government.
Thats why the two aren't supposed to mix. They bring out the worse in eachother the more closely they work together.
Its not lying to claim Iran and Saudi Arabia have sharia law. They do.
GhostInTheShell29 1 year ago
@GhostInTheShell29 they dont apply it on all people. u ar very sneaky. u try to divert attention.
u wanted to divert attention from the laws themselves to they immunity of the leader o the corruption .. so the main idea is lost in every direction.
the most important thing of sharia laws is the the judge is independent. this is the REAL non mix. not as u say it.
u have religion also called "constitution" so stop the rubbish. we are talking Shraia laws VS your laws. dont FAKE it
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun :p sorry i'm not your average American. The constituition is a secular document no matter how hard the religious fundamentalists try to pervert it. I believe law should be based on pragmatic principles for creating a free and safe society with unalienable rights.
So America's system doesn't live up to that either. Its better then many countries, but still needs a lot of improvement too.
Your system is religious based so its always easy to corrupt it. All religions are.
GhostInTheShell29 1 year ago
@GhostInTheShell29 sorry the main difference here is that you put the constitution from the people THEN FOLLOW IT. the judge follow it and all country follow it. they cant say we dont MIX .
Sharia laws are FIXED and from GOD. we follow it.
it is man made laws VS GOD laws issue
it is not about separation. it is about REJECTION of GOD LAWS and taking in MAN laws.
the justice is in the "Independence" of the judge and the ways to prevent them from going against the book
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun Yeah an english style shariah law is very different from Saudi/ Iran's version i beleive i said that in my first post.
In england you have very limitted authority, and its really not sharia "Law" as its voluntary and non bidding.
A system like that i find silly. but its limited authority prevents any kind of dangerous corruption.
Really think different terminology should be used, for each system. As one has very limited authority and the other one has 100% authority.
GhostInTheShell29 1 year ago
@snaforfun
There is nothing to suggest Sharia is actually from God. Just because you believe they are from God doesn't make it so.
Being able to amend and update laws is only 100% better than fixed immovable laws. What happens when laws affect a group of people in a negative unexpected way? Is it: well God wills it? Or do we take a hard look at the law, update it and adjust the fairest way possible?
jesse1018 1 year ago
@jesse1018 who said it is that fixed? they didnt have banks by then. no banks laws. BUT there are BASICS on which u build on.
that is
if u open BANK ... No interest is allowed . u make the bank system on it. other things u put your own rules freely without contradicting the basis.
also , Taxes .. in Islam Taxes for government is illegal. the 2.5% go to the poor. so we build on it. and say Taxes are voulinteer not FORCED .
as for we believe in it? well we do, our country why u interfere?
snaforfun 1 year ago
Comment removed
jesse1018 1 year ago
@jesse1018 well the whole issue is about Egypt an Muslims countries.
as for god's laws .. well u have them without knowing. Atheists have NO laws. they believe in natural selection... they believe the strong stay and weak go ... actually inside if they can get away with a crime they dont mind coz they are smarter and deserve the money more than the weaker and is natural selection.
every good law came from GOD. they leech it then say there is no GOD ...
they admit they are apes and animals ..
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun Atheists have all the laws of the country they live in... just like everyone else. Without laws there would be no freedom. If murder was legal we could never enjoy our lives knowing someone could kill us at any time. So in order for us to be selfish we need laws that promote a good society. Natural selection has nothing to do with atheism. Your thinking of social darwinism.
Atheists admit that we are humans.
GhostInTheShell29 1 year ago
@GhostInTheShell29 I said end of conversation . why u talk with me ? anyway ? are u stupid? u said i argue with stupid people.
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun I was making a point you took out of context. Anyways i guess you'll learn nothing.
Have a good day, and i pray that god continue to prove his non existance to you, until you realize invisible friends are for kids, not for adults.
GhostInTheShell29 1 year ago
@snaforfun well, I wasn't expecting you to jump to secular ethics...but I'm game. But first I must point out that atheists cannot be mass grouped, we have no central doctrine. Strong, weak, these terms are inaccurate and misused. Try successful or unsuccessful. As for "getting away with it", atheists simply aren't compelled to do things out of fear of hell or promise of heaven, which sound pretty dishonest to me. Anyone with a brain realizes helping others will ultimately help themselves as well
jesse1018 1 year ago
@jesse1018 you didnt understand me. all the laws we enjoy came from GOD.
atheists came in and enjoy them .. then claim there is no GOD ...
there basic idea of Natural selection ... is jungle laws.
they can never produce the laws from evolution.
look at the animals u understand... they kill each other steal each other do horrible things...
so the athiests are in deep trouble here... they dont want to believe .. and they cant deny GOD rules.
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun Wow your incredible racism just came out right there. :p its kinda funny you a minority who will be judged by idiotic people for things your not responsible for. Will persecute another minority that you've been fed lies about.
The next time some racist asshole throws something out a car at you. or spits on you. Just remember you hold those same racist thoughts and believes about people you don't bother to try and understand.
GhostInTheShell29 1 year ago
@GhostInTheShell29 ignoring
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun 1- You first have to prove the laws come from God before you can make assumtions about it. 2- Secular laws are based on what works best, not the jungle 3- Animals don't have laws to follow, and if they aren't pack animals, they don't even have to follow accepted pack behavior 4- Atheists aren't in denial, God simply isn't a factor in our decision making process.
jesse1018 1 year ago
@jesse1018 1- why dont u goto islamic university and ask there I cant prove that here on youtube with ease.
2- na secular laws are based on Religion laws like it or not starting from the word "justice" to "dont lie" to "dont steal" to "dont betray etc. your athiest "faith" cant produce these laws.
3- animals dont have it proves we are not animals . and did not come from evolution as u say.
4- Atheists dont believe in GOD.
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun
Well, in spite of everything else in your post being wrong, I won't hold it against you, because at least you got #4 right, which is more than I can say for most of you religious types.
Kudos.
Redfingers 1 year ago
@snaforfun
I don't need an imaginary friend to understand that it is counter-productive to hit someone's head with a hammer. I just have to think about the consequences and implications. Empathy is instinctive for every highly intelligent and communicative species.
You are slave of your ignorance and have no idea of the true nature of freedom.
jimalbi 1 year ago
@jimalbi well the atheist dont think so. they believe in the best stays and the weak dies.
actually I saw atheist talk in forums... once a man was killed by a baby carrying a gun... they said thank nature good riddance of stupid man didnt take the gun away from the kid he deserves to die.
they have it inside. thats why atheist dont respect the laws in wars .. dont value human kind and see them as numbers .. let the nature take care of it right ?
without GOD laws there is no laws
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun Again I feel the need to tell you that you can't group atheists in one ideology, we..have..no..central..doctrine. This "the weak die" mentality is all wrong, and again, innaccurate. And natural selection is the mechanism of evolution, not the tennants of gov't. Please try to differentiate the two. And please, please remember that evoking the word GOD doesn't mean anything to atheists, it's like me saying there's no laws without Zeus. You have to argue from logic.
jesse1018 1 year ago
@jesse1018 u are very good when playing with words. ok ?
I ve seen what atheists did in wars and how many they killed.
starting from the USSR to modern days atheists. they dont value human life at all.
and what is your Logic ? huh ? a random mix up can make a car or a plane ? this whole universe done by Random ? bleh ...
logically , even if u SAY manage to get earth by random u will need some one to isolate it and save it from the destruction the billion failed attempts.
what logic?
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun Just as wars fought by religous men were often about land and resources, not religion, wars fought by atheists were not fought for atheism, but for land or resources. Before you blanket all atheists as killers, look at the percentages in prison populations. Far, far less atheists vs religous in prision. Less atheists get divorced, I can do this all day.
The random parts analogy is completely false on many levels, too many for 500 characters. And I'm unclear on the 'failed attempts'?
jesse1018 1 year ago
@snaforfun what the fuck you stupid bitch, you have no idea what atheism means and unless you are going to show the forum you "recall" don't bring it up because it sounds like bullshit to me. what was george bush's excuse for getting america in the idiotic war is are in?? wasn't he doing GOD's job? following the steps of jesus? atheist respect life because for them this is all there is, you are not going to the afterlife.
Scratch912 1 year ago
@Scratch912 and who said Islam is like corrupted Christianity huh ? false logic.
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun you have no clue of what you are talking about, i wasn't attacking christianity, i was defending atheism you said some ignorant shit about atheism i was using your piece of shit logic against you... btw islam is as bad as christianism so shut the fuck up... btw false logic is called fallacy you illiterate motherfucker
Scratch912 1 year ago
@Scratch912 sure if ur atheism made u say motherfucker without feeling bad about it .. I wonder what will stop u from insulting other people mothers ...
u are a pathetic animal.
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun not other people'S mothers it would just be yours by the way mother fucker is not insulting YOUR mother per se, it means you fuck mothers... get it?? i don't think so but its not easy when you are logic impaired... i don't feel bad because that is what you inspire from me, and i truly believe every word i say about you fucking hillbilly
Scratch912 1 year ago
@snaforfun So your telling me the kid should have had a gun in his hand? the child should be allowed to fire a gun? "The Laws" have not been created by any "God", laws are created by the community and the society of which we live in. If it were socailly acceptable to end a life, it would be legal, but due to the negative stigma, the hurt felt by victims and the remorse felt by many of the perpetrators, murder is illegal. GOD IS A FIGMENT OF YOUR MIND. THERE IS NO PROOF. Please show me proof.
2ndBestAllTime 1 year ago
@snaforfun
You know, it's funny to think that religious foundies like you are right-wingers and against social help program, pro-guns and pro-death penalty. Your politics are so «survival-of-the-fittest»-based but you are always in total denial about it.
I don't need to fear hell to be a good man.
But it doesn't looks to be YOUR case...
jimalbi 1 year ago
@jimalbi again u cant fool me with false words.
the punishment is for those who want to be bad .. so is a treatment for a miniority . same as punishment in sharia laws. a prevention.
I try to be a good man coz it is the right thing to do. but every one has weaknesses in some areas .. here where fear comes.
what you are doing here is called deception.
I do right because I love GOD and LOVE to do everything RIGHT. and everything GOOD comes from HIM.
punishment is for the criminals.
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun
I got a problem with your "without GOD laws there is no laws" i just wanna point out thats false, lets take a look in a book written more recently and learn something read a sociology book.
now actually most laws are made out of social norms society sets in motion, for instance lets say you kill someone and someone else does not like that it is looked down upon by others and eventually to stop the killings the authoritive figures set in motion laws to stop you from doing that.
furverus 1 year ago
@furverus u went to the killing why such extreme thing? why not talk about lies , deception , stealing whithout getting caught ? wars ? killing weak nations and taking their resources ?
when the "strong" can get away with it without being punished .. he will do it ... if atheist... and the part of him rejecting it comes from Religion and justice in religion...
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun
i was just using killing as an example as for what you stated the same can be said, while yes the "strong" can get away with it if u mean those with money that can buy their way out (thats a different topic) im talking about how laws were made. i have an honest question and please take it seriously
Everyone knows there were people around before the bible was around, do you believe before then that every homo sapien was a lawless human killing and lieing without remorse?
furverus 1 year ago
@snaforfun I can't help but notice that you disregard my arguements against your notion 'the strong' getting away with bad deeds. IT IS NOT WHAT ATHEISTS BELIEVE. Can you please acknowledge that one thing?
jesse1018 1 year ago
*edit* atheists simply aren't compelled to do things out of fear of hell or promise of heaven, which sounds more honest to me.
jesse1018 1 year ago
@snaforfun How am I interfering? You are comparing "man's law" to "God's law". I'm simply weighing in.
Also, any gov't requires a minimum budget to operate. In an all volunteer system, you can't rely on a steady in flow. And no interest? How does that bank make money? What is it's incentive to operate?
jesse1018 1 year ago
@jesse1018 read about Islamic Banking system. they are surviving the financial crises now.
they gain money as PARTNERS. u put your money there you are a full partner in the bank project and income. u may loose or gain and is not fixed percentage.
as for currency , it is fixed value. that is it keeps its value with time coz it is not paper and ink , it is GOLD.
and if u trade GOLD for GOLD must be same weight. this way no one can steal currency and say went down.
many other things.
snaforfun 1 year ago
@snaforfun Wasn't 100% sure if my response was to what you were actually trying to say.
But now that i re-read it.
Theres no such thing as god given laws.
GhostInTheShell29 1 year ago
@GhostInTheShell29 not ur business. is our land ok? we voted as majority that we want it. SIMPLE.
u want the miniority secularists in our country to be dictators against the vote ? sorry wont happen.
u dont like it go away so simple dont live in those countries.
snaforfun 1 year ago