It is opportunism. Consequently, it is not permissible for a traditional Catholic, who understands that the New Mass is insulting to Our Divine Savior, to assist at the New Mass, and this even if there is no danger of scandal to others or of the perversion of one’s own Faith (as in an older person, for example), and even if it is the only Mass available.
For the end does not justify the means. Consequently, although it is a good thing to want to assist at Mass and satisfy one’s Sunday obligation, it is never permitted to use a sinful means to do this. To assist at the New Mass, for a person who is aware of the objective sacrilege involved, is consequently at least a venial sin.
However, regardless of the gravity of the sacrilege, the New Mass still remains a sacrilege, and it is still in itself sinful. Furthermore, it is never permitted to knowingly and willingly participate in an evil or sinful thing, even if it is only venially sinful.
How can nayone say the no mass is invalid when they use al lthe prayers? They use the Roman Canon, along with the other Eucharistic prayers.
How can it be protestant, if the words say, "Lord, may this sacrifice, which has made our peace with you,advance the peace and salvation of all the world."
The Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter was established by pope JPII and Cardinal Ratzinger, the present pope.
They are "" legal"" traditionalist, in full communion with Pope Benedict XVI, and the local bishop, in our case dr. J.M. Punt of Haarlem-Amsterdam, who gave the huge basilica of St. Agnes to the legal traditionalists. Tridentine high mass every sunday, every weekday a tridentine low mass at 11.00.
@AndreasAntoniusMaria Okay. Then can you tell me what is High and Low Mass? I am a Pakistani Catholic from the Beginning of Christianity (Catholic Church) we are saying the Novus Ordo Mass in Our Own Language.
St. Thomas the Apostle and St. Francis Xavier came and preached the Word of God in Our Region.
I'm sick of all the Catholics who prefer to prefix themselves as "traditional" rather than "Roman". Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the TLm, but is it superior, therefore having the Bride of Christ presenting us with something that is inferior? Alice von Hildebrand said that her husband, Dietrich, always abhored the attitude in which the Church, the Faith, the Mass are turned into a type of intellectual chess game. Just stop. There will be a reform, one day.
It is true. It is deeper than just using Latin. I would rather have the 1965 English Mass than this Novus Ordo Mass in Latin. Simply because the older form of the Mass clearly shows the teaching of the Church.
You would never guess it is the ordinary form...well except for the PatFotA of course...just as the Council Fathers wanted, nothing wrong with vernacular of course either. but Gregorian chant and versus deum are the way to go! Amen.
Remember Christians, the will of God is no Catholic, Protestant,Orthodox, Penticostal, Adventist, JW, Etc. NO DIVISION, Only Christians, holy, helping and sharing instead of buying and selling.
"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." (John 17:9-21)
Abandoning Latin is the least of the Problems with the Novus Ordo Mass!
The Problems are Doctrinal. It continues to amaze me how high ranking Clergy, such as Cardinal Arinze etc, imply that the Novus Ordo can be said in Latin, when he is bound to know that this issue is the least of the problems with the New Mass!
Vatican II called for an increased use of vernacular languages in the liturgy, which snowballed into saying the entire Mass in the vernacular.
"nothing wrong with the vernacular" - Not for ordinary speech maybe, but the Church uses Latin to guard Dogmas and Doctines aginst modernist interpretation.
in our small church during special occasions, mass is celebrated ad orientem. some parts are said in latin particularly the words of consecration. the ordinary of mass are sung in latin (de angelis). Our holy week services were all done this way. the faithful received holy communion on the tongue while kneeling. we had very solemn holy week liturgies.
Read the Otavianni Intervention which critiqued the Novus Ordo in it's purest most reverently performed manner. Even if it were to retain the smells and bells of the true Mass it still eliminated enough Catholic theology from the prayers to make it acceptable to most protestants.
The bigger problem with wishing for the Novus Ordo to be said reverently is that it was designed to allow for novelty. Besides, with the heresy of collegiality in place, the "pope" has no control anymore.
I can't help but feel that if the OF had been said this way from the beginning, there never would have been an SSPX schism. This type of Mass is what the Fathers of Vatican II intended when they called for a reform of the liturgy. Its noble simplicity stands in sharp contrast to the liturgical excesses promoted by those Modernists who ignore what the Council actually said and go by what they wish it had said. Fortunately, under Benedict XVI, a lot of these errors are slowly being rectified.
Not true. If all that had been done was to change the prayers to the vernacular, there would have been no break (it was not properly schism). The Liturgy itself had been compromised.
It is opportunism. Consequently, it is not permissible for a traditional Catholic, who understands that the New Mass is insulting to Our Divine Savior, to assist at the New Mass, and this even if there is no danger of scandal to others or of the perversion of one’s own Faith (as in an older person, for example), and even if it is the only Mass available.
WeepingStellaMaris 2 months ago
For the end does not justify the means. Consequently, although it is a good thing to want to assist at Mass and satisfy one’s Sunday obligation, it is never permitted to use a sinful means to do this. To assist at the New Mass, for a person who is aware of the objective sacrilege involved, is consequently at least a venial sin.
WeepingStellaMaris 2 months ago
However, regardless of the gravity of the sacrilege, the New Mass still remains a sacrilege, and it is still in itself sinful. Furthermore, it is never permitted to knowingly and willingly participate in an evil or sinful thing, even if it is only venially sinful.
WeepingStellaMaris 2 months ago
How can nayone say the no mass is invalid when they use al lthe prayers? They use the Roman Canon, along with the other Eucharistic prayers.
How can it be protestant, if the words say, "Lord, may this sacrifice, which has made our peace with you,advance the peace and salvation of all the world."
brndurham 5 months ago
well if this is what Vatican II wanted(i know it is the intention of the Council)...they shouldn't have changed anything...
cunjoz 6 months ago
Well if you do this, you just as well do a tridentine mass!
I have uploaded 2 full Tridentine masses from Holland, Amsterdam Church ST. Agnes (Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter).
AndreasAntoniusMaria 1 year ago
@AndreasAntoniusMaria Do they have a Pope or are they Sedevacantists?
eraser695 5 months ago
The Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter was established by pope JPII and Cardinal Ratzinger, the present pope.
They are "" legal"" traditionalist, in full communion with Pope Benedict XVI, and the local bishop, in our case dr. J.M. Punt of Haarlem-Amsterdam, who gave the huge basilica of St. Agnes to the legal traditionalists. Tridentine high mass every sunday, every weekday a tridentine low mass at 11.00.
AndreasAntoniusMaria 5 months ago
@AndreasAntoniusMaria Okay. Then can you tell me what is High and Low Mass? I am a Pakistani Catholic from the Beginning of Christianity (Catholic Church) we are saying the Novus Ordo Mass in Our Own Language.
St. Thomas the Apostle and St. Francis Xavier came and preached the Word of God in Our Region.
eraser695 5 months ago
As a strong supporter of Vatican II and critic of radical traditional Catholicism, I can firmly say that this is what was meant by Vatican II.
GBVrallyCI 1 year ago
Vatican II is heresy and the novus ordo "mass" is invalid! It's just a protestant service!
StBonifatius 1 year ago
I thought that was a scottish accent I could hear through the Latin! :D
sidmain19 2 years ago
I'm sick of all the Catholics who prefer to prefix themselves as "traditional" rather than "Roman". Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the TLm, but is it superior, therefore having the Bride of Christ presenting us with something that is inferior? Alice von Hildebrand said that her husband, Dietrich, always abhored the attitude in which the Church, the Faith, the Mass are turned into a type of intellectual chess game. Just stop. There will be a reform, one day.
TenderTrap86 2 years ago
It is true. It is deeper than just using Latin. I would rather have the 1965 English Mass than this Novus Ordo Mass in Latin. Simply because the older form of the Mass clearly shows the teaching of the Church.
rumpranger65 2 years ago
Then you would want a 1962 Latin Mass.
dacatholicbandorgan 2 years ago
Indeed. But if vernacular is going to be used, at least make sure it is the true teachings of the Church, in all their glory and orthodoxy.
BTW, I do go to the 1962 TLM, at San Secondo in Guasti in fact. God bless.
rumpranger65 2 years ago
OMG No way, although I prefer St.Therese, I have a video of a Low Mass from that Church a few weeks ago.
dacatholicbandorgan 2 years ago
You would never guess it is the ordinary form...well except for the PatFotA of course...just as the Council Fathers wanted, nothing wrong with vernacular of course either. but Gregorian chant and versus deum are the way to go! Amen.
Winaska 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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Remember Christians, the will of God is no Catholic, Protestant,Orthodox, Penticostal, Adventist, JW, Etc. NO DIVISION, Only Christians, holy, helping and sharing instead of buying and selling.
"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." (John 17:9-21)
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conceil8 2 years ago
Abandoning Latin is the least of the Problems with the Novus Ordo Mass!
The Problems are Doctrinal. It continues to amaze me how high ranking Clergy, such as Cardinal Arinze etc, imply that the Novus Ordo can be said in Latin, when he is bound to know that this issue is the least of the problems with the New Mass!
iotaunam1 2 years ago
You are not entitled to speak against the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite.
There are no "doctrinal problems" at all.
BlackCappa 2 years ago
the second vatican council never abandoned the use of the latin in the liturgy, and there is nothing wrong with the vernacular.
lionlittle 2 years ago
Vatican II called for an increased use of vernacular languages in the liturgy, which snowballed into saying the entire Mass in the vernacular.
"nothing wrong with the vernacular" - Not for ordinary speech maybe, but the Church uses Latin to guard Dogmas and Doctines aginst modernist interpretation.
iotaunam1 2 years ago 3
in our small church during special occasions, mass is celebrated ad orientem. some parts are said in latin particularly the words of consecration. the ordinary of mass are sung in latin (de angelis). Our holy week services were all done this way. the faithful received holy communion on the tongue while kneeling. we had very solemn holy week liturgies.
forestking19 2 years ago
The only latin mass i like is the tridentine mass. In Holland available at the St. Agneskerk Amsterdam, Amstelveenseweg 163.
AndreasAntoniusMaria 3 years ago
Read the Otavianni Intervention which critiqued the Novus Ordo in it's purest most reverently performed manner. Even if it were to retain the smells and bells of the true Mass it still eliminated enough Catholic theology from the prayers to make it acceptable to most protestants.
The bigger problem with wishing for the Novus Ordo to be said reverently is that it was designed to allow for novelty. Besides, with the heresy of collegiality in place, the "pope" has no control anymore.
wjweigand 3 years ago
Wonderful. Would that all Ordinary Form Masses were like this!
Hiberniensis 3 years ago 11
I can't help but feel that if the OF had been said this way from the beginning, there never would have been an SSPX schism. This type of Mass is what the Fathers of Vatican II intended when they called for a reform of the liturgy. Its noble simplicity stands in sharp contrast to the liturgical excesses promoted by those Modernists who ignore what the Council actually said and go by what they wish it had said. Fortunately, under Benedict XVI, a lot of these errors are slowly being rectified.
MckyJcksn 3 years ago 7
The SSPX is not in Schism, it is in communion with Rome, it has not done anything against the doctrine. VII novelties are not dogmas.
ixtoc999 3 years ago
Not true. If all that had been done was to change the prayers to the vernacular, there would have been no break (it was not properly schism). The Liturgy itself had been compromised.
justdobbs 2 years ago