i don´t understand... Which scale is he using when he says "subtitute A7#5 (chord) with an Em7 line form"... what is a Em7 line form? Is he talking about some sort of Dorian mode or what?
It's taken me years of thinking about Pat's system to understand that the minor-subs over a dominant chord are minor 3ds apart: over A7#5 = Em7, Gm7, Bbm7, Dbm7. I'm sure many of you know this already, and the fact that it comes from his idea of starting with a diminished chord, lowering any of its tones 1/2 step, to yield the 4 resulting dom7 chords.
Yes, I thought that too. It's possible he thinks that way imho... Since Bb whole-half dimished scale contains chords A7, C7 Eb7 & F#7 and so forth A7 = Em7 C7 =Gm7 Eb7 = Bbm7 F#7 = Dm7. Allthought A7#5 is very tensioned chord which gives possibility to play very out out outly ;-)
@alfbarroso A7 would resolve to D(m or maj) Em7 (dorian/locrian) is the ii of A7. Gm7 (melodic) is the ii of C7, which could be a way to resolve to D also. Bbm7 (melodic) is a way of playing the altered scale. Dbm7 would be the ii chord for Gb7. Which would lead to the parallel key to D, which is B (assuming D is major, it's interchangeable though in this context). This would be a way to explain it without all the whole-half mumbo-jumbo :) That doesn't have much tonal context to me.
hello guitar fans, who want to know the work of tb Mazin Silva, Brazilian guitarist, feel free to listen to Brazilian guitar,,,, Mazin SILVA (search youtube)
@Neuromance27 nooooo not at all. Start with the most basic thing and you'll quickly understand this and more difficult things. It also helps downloading the video and playing it slowed down on Transcribe! and it wont sound random to you no mo'
One day in a future age, when we are fully enlightened, Pat Martino's words shall be chanted as the divine prophecies of post-Pythagorean mysticism... "the choooooord that NOW shall be plaaaaaayed is A-seven sharp five....the substitution shall be..."
@ilovekittenification Perhaps you shall be the first acolyte of my new religion, Holy Martino Harmonizationism, in which we explore the depths of reality through the ritualized use of powerful chord substitutions and unusual harmonies.
His playing is not typical at all. As an example: on A7#5#9, the raised 5th (#5) is the F note. On e minor 7th traditional scale, the F is sharp (F#). So unless we use an E phrygian flavor or chromatic, there will be a clash between the dominant chord played and the solo. Also the #9 makes the dominant chord major in the first triad ( with C#) and minor at the end (with C), which might cause a new clash. I appreciate your reply and I am still experimenting with your guidance. Thanks a million!
if you want to know more about what pat martino is talking about . you should check out barry harris jazz workshop vids. he talks about this in great detail.
@triclone123 each scale he plays contains chord tones which are a part of the A altered dominant chord of one form or another. (A7#5#9) for the first example (e minor 7th forms). Beyond that he is peppering his lines with personally chosen chromatic tones. Why does it work is purely subjective really. The Bb minor stuff sounds to my ear like something from the 50's (listen to Paul Horn and others on the soundtrack to Sweet Smell of Success. Good Luck.
This is wonderful. Pat shows here that music theory is not exact science, but depends also on someone to give meaning to the whole thing.
Actually the A 75+ can be thought as a V degree of a major scale , in that case playin the Em7 ( the ii degree ) fits good. But Pat can think also the same chord as an alteration of Bbm7, in that case another arpeggio creates a different atmosphere. The hardest part is , as shows the end of the segment to evoluates from a dimension to another one, smoothly
@JMOLIVES - If degree I is D major then the F# of D Major will clash with the A75+ on the 5+. If degree i was to be D minor, then the Em7 should have a b5 as the second degree of a minor scale is diminished, otherwise, you might also feel a clash.
for most guitarists scales or chords like that are like a labyrinth, but this is not the case with Pat Martino, he feels like being at home. I like his soft and fluent tone. He is one of the elite players.
@steveeolio wow, if my opinion brandishes me as ignorant in your opinion, you must think a lot of people are less intelligent than you eh? Well you clearly are a hipster jazz-head as you degrade my opinion in light of your own. I'm not ignorant cuz this sounds like musical jibberish. I just don't like jazz, get over it.
your head is probably so far up your hipster jazz ass you think you have some kind of definitive opinion.. but your opinion is worth no more than mine or anyone elses jazzboy.
Pat also uses a system based on diminished chords...You will notice in this example he uses a simple minor scale (or arpeggios) in a sequence/combination of four minor thirds (outlining the E, Bb, Db diminished chords)...Using this diminished series for substitutions is a key to Pat's lines over chords approach, but certainly not his only approach to linear creativity.
@frank For being able to play (over) any chord, in any key, wherever you happen to find yourself on the fretboard, Pat's insight into diminished chords as "parental chords" is a blessing. His chromatic approach to position-changing extends that insight, & makes the entire fretboard one comfortable whole. Funny thing is, you don't have to ever actually -play- a diminished chord or riff to be using the system :-)
Pat's approach is simple, for him that is...Basically, anything can be substituted over anything, meaning almost any scale, extended arpeggiation or modality will work over most sets of chords...The main thing i usually some sort of resolution, either in a modality, or, of course, the melody or theme...The key is being able to hear it...This takes big ears...Pat is not normal in terms of mental capacity...He is a genius...As person he is wonderful...You can analyze, not duplicate his concepts.
@frankdialogue I just got both of Pat's lesson-DVDs. Although my style has no similarity to his , I have no interest in playing anything like him, and couldn't if I tried: The insights into how he organizes the fretboard is immediately very useful.
@Jacobe888: Sorry, I can´t find those Pdf files. Actually I never figured out this thing from info on youtube, it sucks sometimes. Could you help me on that?
@thegreatgarry I personally find Martino to be a much better guitarist after the second time he learned how to play. Some of his more outside stuff from way back doesn't work for me at all.
You must buy the DVD and the book join with it where there are the tabs.A lot of work after ... there are two years i work these methods and i just begin to ear these licks and i don't play so fast but with a different articulation.
in other words, play what you want, just watch out for the major 7th. unless of course you want to play it. still takes a lot of work, but it's really just about finding and using different colors. what sounds good to you?
In one of his videos the minor substituions are supposed to all based on Dorian mode, but I'm assuming he makes the appropriate 'adjustments', that is if using Bbm-dorian subst over A7+5 make sure the b7th of that scale (that is, the note Ab) doesn't fall on a down beat , otherwise you end up playing a Major 7th on the down beat of a Alt.Dominant chord (which has a LOWERED 7th).
@egyptianminor I think that's it exactly. Pat doesn't make it clear at all, i suppose he wants to keep people guessing. Then again what does one note really mean at high tempo? He hits the major 7th all the time over dominants, so did Wes.
@professorlamp sounds like hes making it up as he goes,"improvising"there is theory behind it it might easier to understand if he would mabye relate it to modes,think of it this way,hes just substitutiing chords,the scales hes playing are arpeggios of the substitutions,thats a real simplified version but I think he makes it too complicated I assume these lessons were made for "advanced"players so hes kinda assuming that we already know some things and hes not taking time to explain those things
@fraterlucifer888 He is making it way over complicated. Since in actual Theory he is playing in one key, and playing one scale over the chord with some accidentals. But hey, if Jazzers want to over complicate Music Theory, I can't stop them =P
From what part of this video did you identify he was playing in one key? And he's not playing one scale. He's showing you that you can use the diminished cycle to cover a dominant chord. He's only moving a minor 3rd every time and combining those in any order. It's only over complicated to you because you don't understand what he is doing. Familiarity is everything.
He's using the diminished cycle. Emin-A7 is a 2/5 right? all he's doing is cycling a minor third each time from the initial minor: Emin-Gmin-Bflatmin-Dflatminor- Eminor7 is one of the 3 diminished cycles. essentially take your pick from the cycle.
So impressive and - 'musicological'! I'll probably never get round to learning any of it, or even trying to understand much of it, but to see this level of concept and skill at close quarters is very pleasing. On a different note; does anyone else's computer keep stopping -and hesitating ALL THE TIME?? It drives one nuts.
It sounds great but it would more useful if the great man explained which modes he was using for the substitutions eg is the Gm sub a Dorian,Aeolian,Melodic etc
Pat Martino doesn't use modes. He openly says this in the rest of the video.
Everything he plays on II V's and all derivations of that, he always plays from the minor deriving from dorian (if you analyzed it that way) but he throws in all the other notes as passing notes.
This is brilliant but I just wish he'd slow down a tad to give us mere mortals a chance to see exactly what he's doing. I love these shapes but it's so tough to follow him.
Hi Jacob, who did the transcription? I see that the second Emin line is missing ... man, Pat really knows how to put notes together! It's not like he's just doing straight runs up and down the minor scales. He's got single chromatics, patterns, and short motifs moved chromatically, making it quite challenging to identify.
I guess he's using the bebop method of using the diminished chord substitutions . It sounds great to hear, somebody apart from Barry Harris incorporating it . Maybe there are others.
folks, watch the whole video... pat is so out of this world concerning his musical theory ... the longer you watch, the more you realize who few you know. he is not teaching "classical" theory, rather his own system of northward southward movements ... wtf? it is a puzzle of 50000000000000 pieces
Anybody watch this and reexamine what they've been doing over the years.I've played metal and experimental rock for 24 years and never really had much interest or exposure to jazz except for Greg Howe or Alan Holdsworth but watching Pat here I realized where I should've been;I'm self taught for the most part and have been playing jazz licks in metal for year's and now I know why the musicians I played with always had a hard time keeping up and understanding what I was trying to do.Thank you.
More than chords....you have to pick up a rail pass, and keep you seat window clear...
and maybe not have potatoe picking fingers..but these slim fine jobs that pat and many technical guys seem to have...that guitar looks metallic...but I believe it's a lot of carving on the wood....doesn't really go with his sound...but maybe I'm not advanced enough to see that yet...
es sin duda el mejor de los jazzistaz que jamas a existido extaciandonos con su conocimiento apesar de el accidente que tuvo es y sera el mas grande maestro en mexico estamos anciosos con su visita donde impartira clinicas gratuitas en un famoso festival de jazz sin duda el mejor gracias por tu hermosa musica y por todo el conocimiento brindado
rillloudmother. you have it on the dime...pat is a genius only because hes worked real hard....twice....if you look at what hes talking about, as in the notes that are included in each and how they relate to each other its not rocket science.....the hard part is practicing enough to A) have a vocab that big ingrained and at your fingertips at all times B) make it your own...hence jazz
The scale tones are woven into the fabric of the phrase.One cannot discard how the scale tones are woven into the fabric of the phrase.Its how the scale tones are used contextually that gives them their identity.
The roots of the sub chords spell a diminished chord. E,G,Bb,Db. That means each sub chord is as harmonically distant from the root chord as the previous. The only two notes not included in those chords are the maj7 and the minor third. The way to apply this is to hit notes in the key of the root chord on downbeats and hit chords in the key of the substitute chords on the upbeats. for instance you could play, starting on a downbeat. A,Ab,G,Gb,F,Eb,C#.Bb,A and it would fit over an amin7#5 chord.
There are many clashes with those 4 subs but they're supposed to be used melodically; it depends how you resolve what doesn't sound good to make it sound good.
Even if you don't use any subs, A7#5 still has an E because the #5 is really a b13. In Cm9 the Eb clashes with the D, right?
Em7 to A7 (sharp 5) is a II V. Both are interchangeable. Joe pass went staright to the dominant, and Pat Martino goes straight for the minor. You should start with looking at two fives before you even begin to think about this video.
It's based on key centers. Find were the major scale starts then you apply the substitution. here's the example.. 1-3-5 is the major triad.. 2-4-6 is the minor triad play a cmajor7 then play the 2-4-6 triad over this. just keep stacking the triads.. if you start at 5-7-9 against the cmajor7 you will create a dominate sound go up one more.6-8-10 or "6-2-4" your playing a natural minor chord.. When they started GIT they never taught modes they taught Key centers. learn the majr and all triads
@jamboliboli Fuck U. I was taught music theory by Don Mock. First instructor @ GIT 1-3-5-7-2-4-6 theres the major scale. I just got rid of the 9 and replaced it with the #2 "which it is" since there is only 7 notes in the major scale. chords work in thirds! modes do the same: Phyrigian, it's the 3rd mode. it starts on the 3rd degree of the Major scale. it would look like this 3-5-7-1 from the key center. its a major 7th chord if the bass is on 1 and it's a minor 7th if the bass is on 3
@jamboliboli we now agree on something! that was my whole point. this is all very simple once you understand it! But your wrong about one part. Frank Gambale would go off if heard the "don't use modes" you have to know were the 3rds and 7ths are when the band is playing. Scales are generic. chords have harmony. you need to know your chords and this means you need to know your modes and your intervals! BTW Don Mock and Pat martino go way back as friends and Don Mock smokes on the guitar..
@jamboliboli I just realized I'm talking to an idiot! You have no idea what your taking about! what is a C maj#11, The chord is Lydian and one needs to understand that to understand the essence of the chord. All the jazz greats knew this stuff long ago. Pat Martino understands all of this. Pat and Don were great friends and talked about theory for years. go back to school or show us a video of you playing. pat got to the point in his life that he understood all of this crap! u Dont
he's not calling it the chromatic scale because he's not using the chromatic scale. Just because your using chromatic notes doesn't mean you're playing chromatic scale. If he were playing chromatic scale he's be treating all the notes the same but if you have the ears to hear, he's using the non-diatonic tones as approaching and neighboring tones with the landing point emphasis on notes within the scales he mentions. So in short, that's why!
It's called a dominate 5. the only place to go chromatic is the 5th position from the major scale, because it's dominate it allows you to flat the 5 or sharpen the 5 same with the 9.. 90 percent of jazz was written in the 2-5-1 but there are areas that allow for the harmoni minor to play into this.. its all just the major scale. but some areas allow for the harmonic minor to be played but it's very few chords. the 5 position is where you can get sick and out of bounds. just can't flat the 7
He's so dry it's comical- like in the Holy Grail. "The number of the counting shall be 3, and 3 shall be the number of the counting. Neither shalt thou count 2 unless thou proceedest on to 3." But I love his playing. Very unique.
I have trouble with this concept. What does Am7b5 have to do with Em7 or Gm7? It's ii of G harmonic minor, but where does he get these substitutions from, and why do those work better than any other, say F#m7 sub for Am7b5?
Well, it is basically superimposing outside harmonies over a seemingly unrelated chord. Try this on for size: Play a Bb7 Arpeggio over am Em7 chord and resolve to an E minor scale. This is known as the b5 substitution, commonly in use by most jazzers. It is not that they necessarily work 'better' over the changes-it actually gives more tension, which demands a resolution to either the tonic, the 3rd, the 5th or the 7th, depending on where you want to take the line.
F#m7 contains F# A C# and E so the only note that wouldn't drastically clash with the Am7b5 would be the A. Substitutes are only substitutes when the majority of the chord tones are common to both chords. I hope that answers that.
Did you mean it's a sub when the chord tones "aren't" common? If they're common, it would be in the scale, right? Also, does this mean that you can only superimpose triads over them, rather than the whole diatonic scale of those substituted triads? He must be getting all these notes from somewhere, and it can't just be chromatic embellishment of 3 or 4 chord tones, so is it a matter of substituting the whole scales?
Think of it this way...analyze each scale tone in all the minor keys but with A7#5 as the root chord. so em7 starting at E gives you the 5th, 6th, 7th, root, 9th, #9,3rd(if dorian) and the 4th. Bbm7 would give you b9, #9, 3rd, b5, #5, 6th, 7th(if dorian) and Maj7.
these substitutions are just ways to grab altered tones like #9 and #5 by using licks you already know over minor chords.
it's all common. everything is based on one scale the major scale.. There are areas that will allow for the harmonic minor to work . but its all based on this.. 1st position is Ionian which is a major7 4. is lydian which is a major7. they will sound very similar cause there is one difference in the triad. the 5th position is l major also but it's called a dominate. this little chord has eleven variables to it. the others are minor7ths. positions 2-3-6, the 7th position is a minor flat5 7-2-f5
Great info from an erudite player! Always loved his playing; yet I agree with some who don't like his tone - for me, I wish he had a little bit more treble. Just a matter of taste. his "Live at Yoshis" CD is 5 stars. *****
There is a simple way to understand this. First he's taking an A7 chord. The #5 is irrelevant as the substitutions begin with Em (E is the natural 5th of A). The other three substitutions are Gm Bbm and Dbm. Their overall pattern is the same as a group of 4 diminished scales a minor third apart: E G Bb Db. Then he says just combine any two of these. Job done!
y al usar esas tonalidades menores se refiere a usar el arpegio de tetrada?(1,3m, 5J, b7)o usar escalas menores (natural, armonica, melodica, doria, etc)
Hola te recomiendo que consigas el video si te es posible, Pat no usa los modos que mencionas aunque tambien pueden ser interpretado de esa forma, yo tengo sus videos y la informacion que da es valiosa.
He's clearly using pentatonics:E pentatonic on Emin7.He's playin' some his ideas about miscellaneous of melodic minor/pentatonic/dorian/chromatism.He's using the melodic minor's degrees that i had explain in my first post.
About Db,now i understand:he's using Db MINOR(and not major..)because the 7b of DB...B.
B is also the 2nd/9(omitted)in A7#5.If he had played Db pent. major,the 7th would have been C..and C is minor 3rd in A7#5,so C would have been dissonant..
so for subs over an altered chord: down a tone and then play minor modes from roots a minor third up from last?
roccckkerrr 3 weeks ago
i don´t understand... Which scale is he using when he says "subtitute A7#5 (chord) with an Em7 line form"... what is a Em7 line form? Is he talking about some sort of Dorian mode or what?
atapoicos00 1 month ago
@atapoicos00
Pat refers to kind of 'just minor' when he talks about 'minor lines' ..dorian, harmonic, aieolian, dims as far i know & have heard on this film...
jacobe888 1 month ago
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gg12tone 1 week ago
It's taken me years of thinking about Pat's system to understand that the minor-subs over a dominant chord are minor 3ds apart: over A7#5 = Em7, Gm7, Bbm7, Dbm7. I'm sure many of you know this already, and the fact that it comes from his idea of starting with a diminished chord, lowering any of its tones 1/2 step, to yield the 4 resulting dom7 chords.
Gminor7 2 months ago
@Gminor7
Yes, I thought that too. It's possible he thinks that way imho... Since Bb whole-half dimished scale contains chords A7, C7 Eb7 & F#7 and so forth A7 = Em7 C7 =Gm7 Eb7 = Bbm7 F#7 = Dm7. Allthought A7#5 is very tensioned chord which gives possibility to play very out out outly ;-)
jacobe888 2 months ago
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Can somebody say what's the theoretical explanation for the Dbm over A7, besides it's TOOO WIERD? Man, it's the proto-Garzone!!
alfbarroso 2 months ago
Would somebody can say what the theoretical explanation for the Dbm over A7, besides it's TOOO WIERD? Man, it's the proto-Garzone!!
alfbarroso 2 months ago
@alfbarroso
the reason is that over altered chords you can play all notes. 12 of them remember? ;-)
jacobe888 2 months ago
@jacobe888 That's why they cal it "atered" ;-)
alfbarroso 2 months ago
@alfbarroso
allthough min 3rd of Dbm is minor 3rd th not major 3rd of A7#5...hmmm... i asked that from Pat himself...
jacobe888 2 months ago
@alfbarroso A7 would resolve to D(m or maj) Em7 (dorian/locrian) is the ii of A7. Gm7 (melodic) is the ii of C7, which could be a way to resolve to D also. Bbm7 (melodic) is a way of playing the altered scale. Dbm7 would be the ii chord for Gb7. Which would lead to the parallel key to D, which is B (assuming D is major, it's interchangeable though in this context). This would be a way to explain it without all the whole-half mumbo-jumbo :) That doesn't have much tonal context to me.
diederikeggenkamp 2 weeks ago
grande pat martino
scassciatos 2 months ago
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hello guitar fans, who want to know the work of tb Mazin Silva, Brazilian guitarist, feel free to listen to Brazilian guitar,,,, Mazin SILVA (search youtube)
gajma1000 3 months ago
Thank you Pat! Unbeliveable type of guy!
stratocaster844 4 months ago
The link to TAB is now updated ,it's in photobucket
jacobe888 4 months ago
I can't even wrap my mind around the actual theory... when it sounds so random and almost atonal. I'd never "get" jazz theory lol
Neuromance27 5 months ago
@Neuromance27 nooooo not at all. Start with the most basic thing and you'll quickly understand this and more difficult things. It also helps downloading the video and playing it slowed down on Transcribe! and it wont sound random to you no mo'
DajaWaja 3 months ago
One day in a future age, when we are fully enlightened, Pat Martino's words shall be chanted as the divine prophecies of post-Pythagorean mysticism... "the choooooord that NOW shall be plaaaaaayed is A-seven sharp five....the substitution shall be..."
mahajohn 5 months ago 2
@mahajohn for some reason i really enjoyed your comment, alot
ilovekittenification 2 months ago
@ilovekittenification Perhaps you shall be the first acolyte of my new religion, Holy Martino Harmonizationism, in which we explore the depths of reality through the ritualized use of powerful chord substitutions and unusual harmonies.
mahajohn 2 months ago
His playing is not typical at all. As an example: on A7#5#9, the raised 5th (#5) is the F note. On e minor 7th traditional scale, the F is sharp (F#). So unless we use an E phrygian flavor or chromatic, there will be a clash between the dominant chord played and the solo. Also the #9 makes the dominant chord major in the first triad ( with C#) and minor at the end (with C), which might cause a new clash. I appreciate your reply and I am still experimenting with your guidance. Thanks a million!
triclone123 6 months ago
The Coltrane Of Guitar!!! Pat, I wish I knew what you were talking about, cuz you rule
AllBluesCat 7 months ago
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hey bud
can u please send me the tabs for : Pat Martino - Multiple Substitutions Demonstration
my email is : arcliya@gmail.com
cheers !
NailedSolo 7 months ago
if you want to know more about what pat martino is talking about . you should check out barry harris jazz workshop vids. he talks about this in great detail.
decus69 7 months ago
Pat doesn't give a fuck about playing Maj7s on Dom7 chords. lol
JazzMac36251 8 months ago
What I miss is: Why does it work? Little more detail would be desirable. Not that I cannot research why on my own, but to save some time.
triclone123 8 months ago
@triclone123 each scale he plays contains chord tones which are a part of the A altered dominant chord of one form or another. (A7#5#9) for the first example (e minor 7th forms). Beyond that he is peppering his lines with personally chosen chromatic tones. Why does it work is purely subjective really. The Bb minor stuff sounds to my ear like something from the 50's (listen to Paul Horn and others on the soundtrack to Sweet Smell of Success. Good Luck.
Hs3u39 6 months ago
@Hs3u39 - I think he is using altered scales to avoid harsh clashes with the dominant chord.
triclone123 6 months ago
This is wonderful. Pat shows here that music theory is not exact science, but depends also on someone to give meaning to the whole thing.
Actually the A 75+ can be thought as a V degree of a major scale , in that case playin the Em7 ( the ii degree ) fits good. But Pat can think also the same chord as an alteration of Bbm7, in that case another arpeggio creates a different atmosphere. The hardest part is , as shows the end of the segment to evoluates from a dimension to another one, smoothly
JMOLIVES 8 months ago
@JMOLIVES - If degree I is D major then the F# of D Major will clash with the A75+ on the 5+. If degree i was to be D minor, then the Em7 should have a b5 as the second degree of a minor scale is diminished, otherwise, you might also feel a clash.
triclone123 6 months ago
Comment removed
MRTEED 8 months ago
are these m7 arpeggios or just the notes of the chord played inside scales?
strwy2hvn94 9 months ago
when did ben stein lose a lot of weight and become sweet at guitar?
themusicman1973 10 months ago
this stuff would be cool to play on a sax... I'm gonna try!! :-D
ratiocinativeness 10 months ago
i guess you really have to know your shit to follow this.. !
JOHNNYG99X 10 months ago
for most guitarists scales or chords like that are like a labyrinth, but this is not the case with Pat Martino, he feels like being at home. I like his soft and fluent tone. He is one of the elite players.
florafox 11 months ago
my brain just exploded
thenamesfrancisco 1 year ago
@jazzmasterjesus pretty much ignorant
steveeolio 1 year ago
@steveeolio wow, if my opinion brandishes me as ignorant in your opinion, you must think a lot of people are less intelligent than you eh? Well you clearly are a hipster jazz-head as you degrade my opinion in light of your own. I'm not ignorant cuz this sounds like musical jibberish. I just don't like jazz, get over it.
your head is probably so far up your hipster jazz ass you think you have some kind of definitive opinion.. but your opinion is worth no more than mine or anyone elses jazzboy.
jazzmasterjesus 1 year ago
@jazzmasterjesus
steveeolio 1 year ago
Pat is so psycadellic his playing is awsome
McMinnManiac 1 year ago
Pat also uses a system based on diminished chords...You will notice in this example he uses a simple minor scale (or arpeggios) in a sequence/combination of four minor thirds (outlining the E, Bb, Db diminished chords)...Using this diminished series for substitutions is a key to Pat's lines over chords approach, but certainly not his only approach to linear creativity.
frankdialogue 1 year ago
@frank For being able to play (over) any chord, in any key, wherever you happen to find yourself on the fretboard, Pat's insight into diminished chords as "parental chords" is a blessing. His chromatic approach to position-changing extends that insight, & makes the entire fretboard one comfortable whole. Funny thing is, you don't have to ever actually -play- a diminished chord or riff to be using the system :-)
lazur1 1 year ago
Pat's approach is simple, for him that is...Basically, anything can be substituted over anything, meaning almost any scale, extended arpeggiation or modality will work over most sets of chords...The main thing i usually some sort of resolution, either in a modality, or, of course, the melody or theme...The key is being able to hear it...This takes big ears...Pat is not normal in terms of mental capacity...He is a genius...As person he is wonderful...You can analyze, not duplicate his concepts.
frankdialogue 1 year ago
@frankdialogue I just got both of Pat's lesson-DVDs. Although my style has no similarity to his , I have no interest in playing anything like him, and couldn't if I tried: The insights into how he organizes the fretboard is immediately very useful.
lazur1 1 year ago
@Jacobe888: Sorry, I can´t find those Pdf files. Actually I never figured out this thing from info on youtube, it sucks sometimes. Could you help me on that?
Thanks.
Brunototguitar 1 year ago
@Brunototguitar
just private message me your email, I'll send it to you since seems that my ripway.com account has so troubles now :-(
jacobe888 1 year ago
@jacobe888 Can i get one too? Thanks very much for sharing these videos.
androidguitar 1 year ago
@jacobe888 Could you post it here for all of us to see, Jacob? Thank you! :)
BluesRenegade 4 months ago
@Brunototguitar I updated the link on the video markings to the sheet which is in photobucket...
jacobe888 4 months ago
I can't believe that this man was once lost his memory !
Pat is a true legend
thegreatgarry 1 year ago
@thegreatgarry I personally find Martino to be a much better guitarist after the second time he learned how to play. Some of his more outside stuff from way back doesn't work for me at all.
lazur1 1 year ago
That's genius, taking the minor of each chord tone and superimposing it. Soooo out and awesome.
hatesbostonredsox 1 year ago
this should cost at list 1000 dollars :D
Nu9v9 1 year ago
I'm gonna buy a CD of this guy. Can you tell me which is your favourite one?
Surfister 1 year ago
Reminds me of Ben Stein.
LostMuffin03 1 year ago
You must buy the DVD and the book join with it where there are the tabs.A lot of work after ... there are two years i work these methods and i just begin to ear these licks and i don't play so fast but with a different articulation.
microcosmic2 1 year ago
makes it look like nothing! Then again his fingers can actually reach all the strings.. I got such small hands it so hard for me.
893165009 1 year ago
very good workshop jazzguitar cologne
fastjazzguitar 1 year ago
in other words, play what you want, just watch out for the major 7th. unless of course you want to play it. still takes a lot of work, but it's really just about finding and using different colors. what sounds good to you?
eggie62 1 year ago
Pat is the fucking man
JHBPianist 1 year ago
In one of his videos the minor substituions are supposed to all based on Dorian mode, but I'm assuming he makes the appropriate 'adjustments', that is if using Bbm-dorian subst over A7+5 make sure the b7th of that scale (that is, the note Ab) doesn't fall on a down beat , otherwise you end up playing a Major 7th on the down beat of a Alt.Dominant chord (which has a LOWERED 7th).
egyptianminor 1 year ago
@egyptianminor I think that's it exactly. Pat doesn't make it clear at all, i suppose he wants to keep people guessing. Then again what does one note really mean at high tempo? He hits the major 7th all the time over dominants, so did Wes.
jamboliboli 1 year ago
O que que eu posso falar desse mestre da guitarra???ele e de mais!!!
marcelofabbriguitar 1 year ago
Pat Martino's lines are awesomely scary- they sound like they could have been lifted from any song on "Joyous Lake"
easguitar 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Pat Martino's lines are awesomely scary- they sound like they could have been lifted from any song on "Joyous Lake"
easguitar 1 year ago
Pat Martino's lines are awesomely scary- they sound like they could have been lifted from any song on "Joyous Lake"
easguitar 1 year ago
what kind of guitar is that????
zwalrus1 1 year ago
@zwalrus1 an Abe Rivera solidbody,they guy who played for Lenos band Plays one too
fraterlucifer888 1 year ago
is there any theore behind these substitutions or is he just doing this through trial and error and playing what he knows is good?
professorlamp 1 year ago
@professorlamp sounds like hes making it up as he goes,"improvising"there is theory behind it it might easier to understand if he would mabye relate it to modes,think of it this way,hes just substitutiing chords,the scales hes playing are arpeggios of the substitutions,thats a real simplified version but I think he makes it too complicated I assume these lessons were made for "advanced"players so hes kinda assuming that we already know some things and hes not taking time to explain those things
fraterlucifer888 1 year ago
@fraterlucifer888 He is making it way over complicated. Since in actual Theory he is playing in one key, and playing one scale over the chord with some accidentals. But hey, if Jazzers want to over complicate Music Theory, I can't stop them =P
Intotheorchard 1 year ago
@Intotheorchard
From what part of this video did you identify he was playing in one key? And he's not playing one scale. He's showing you that you can use the diminished cycle to cover a dominant chord. He's only moving a minor 3rd every time and combining those in any order. It's only over complicated to you because you don't understand what he is doing. Familiarity is everything.
jamboliboli 1 year ago
@professorlamp
He's using the diminished cycle. Emin-A7 is a 2/5 right? all he's doing is cycling a minor third each time from the initial minor: Emin-Gmin-Bflatmin-Dflatminor- Eminor7 is one of the 3 diminished cycles. essentially take your pick from the cycle.
jamboliboli 1 year ago
So impressive and - 'musicological'! I'll probably never get round to learning any of it, or even trying to understand much of it, but to see this level of concept and skill at close quarters is very pleasing. On a different note; does anyone else's computer keep stopping -and hesitating ALL THE TIME?? It drives one nuts.
martinjp1958 1 year ago
awesome, thanks for showing off
naxtea 1 year ago
@naxtea exactly !! lol you hit the nail right on the head
fraterlucifer888 1 year ago
????????????-way above my head.
diagreen 1 year ago
Oh my God!
tedybear335 1 year ago
It sounds great but it would more useful if the great man explained which modes he was using for the substitutions eg is the Gm sub a Dorian,Aeolian,Melodic etc
otnas01 1 year ago
On that video lesson Pat tells that he uses MINORS, and tells that he uses melodic, harmonic,naturaletc. minors...
jacobe888 1 year ago
@jacobe888 do you have the pdf for this video. I have the video and it's great but your link doesn't work.
jamboliboli 1 year ago
@otnas01
Pat Martino doesn't use modes. He openly says this in the rest of the video.
Everything he plays on II V's and all derivations of that, he always plays from the minor deriving from dorian (if you analyzed it that way) but he throws in all the other notes as passing notes.
jamboliboli 1 year ago
This is brilliant but I just wish he'd slow down a tad to give us mere mortals a chance to see exactly what he's doing. I love these shapes but it's so tough to follow him.
hexatonia 2 years ago 7
@hexatonia
Turn on the 'Annonations' on low right corner and you find a link to tablature .pdf-file of this film clip...
jacobe888 1 year ago
Comment removed
yamex5 1 year ago
@jacobe888
Hi Jacob, who did the transcription? I see that the second Emin line is missing ... man, Pat really knows how to put notes together! It's not like he's just doing straight runs up and down the minor scales. He's got single chromatics, patterns, and short motifs moved chromatically, making it quite challenging to identify.
yamex5 1 year ago
@yamex5 I did.
jacobe888 4 months ago
@hexatonia haha yeah i hear ya, you really gotta hit the pause button a lot and just learn it bit by bit
GabeSlice 1 year ago
Nobody plays bass quite like Pat Martino.
alreadywoundpie 2 years ago 3
I guess he's using the bebop method of using the diminished chord substitutions . It sounds great to hear, somebody apart from Barry Harris incorporating it . Maybe there are others.
decus69 2 years ago
South Philly Represent!! Wup Wup!!
superjules 2 years ago
it seems to me that he's speaking a foreign language..
wow i really need to work on my music theory skills...
gummylipstick 2 years ago 2
Tuned down a half step...
jplent 2 years ago
Nope ,A (440) is not 415,30 hz but 428 hz :-P
jacobe888 2 years ago
You can find this tuned to 440 from my page :-P
jacobe888 2 years ago
folks, watch the whole video... pat is so out of this world concerning his musical theory ... the longer you watch, the more you realize who few you know. he is not teaching "classical" theory, rather his own system of northward southward movements ... wtf? it is a puzzle of 50000000000000 pieces
Chisuz 2 years ago
Anybody watch this and reexamine what they've been doing over the years.I've played metal and experimental rock for 24 years and never really had much interest or exposure to jazz except for Greg Howe or Alan Holdsworth but watching Pat here I realized where I should've been;I'm self taught for the most part and have been playing jazz licks in metal for year's and now I know why the musicians I played with always had a hard time keeping up and understanding what I was trying to do.Thank you.
blitzspeer 2 years ago
@blitzspeer that's excellent you big wanker.
jamboliboli 1 year ago
fucking genius
thejazzman8 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
now I shall blow your mind
ethanwinograd 2 years ago
This is a custom made solid with carved laminates etc to achieve Pat's dark sound that he uses frequently. What a great inspiring video!
En3usiast 2 years ago
More than chords....you have to pick up a rail pass, and keep you seat window clear...
and maybe not have potatoe picking fingers..but these slim fine jobs that pat and many technical guys seem to have...that guitar looks metallic...but I believe it's a lot of carving on the wood....doesn't really go with his sound...but maybe I'm not advanced enough to see that yet...
sclogse1 2 years ago
What the HECK(!) kind of guitar is that? Pat is a genius.
django519 2 years ago
Custom guitar made by Abe Rivera!
osensei2987 2 years ago
Every time I think I know something about chords and modes, I watch Pat play and get humbled.
pretorious700 2 years ago 9
FANTASTIC IS PAT !
viniguitarjazz 2 years ago
es sin duda el mejor de los jazzistaz que jamas a existido extaciandonos con su conocimiento apesar de el accidente que tuvo es y sera el mas grande maestro en mexico estamos anciosos con su visita donde impartira clinicas gratuitas en un famoso festival de jazz sin duda el mejor gracias por tu hermosa musica y por todo el conocimiento brindado
lezzgy 2 years ago
is this music or math?
robbertdelany 2 years ago 2
music is math, life itself is math, math creates beauty
junka22 2 years ago 3
well said!
mastersgta1 2 years ago
music is built on math
stonehouse1 2 years ago 2
Learn your chords and all will become clear.
rillloudmother 2 years ago 2
rillloudmother. you have it on the dime...pat is a genius only because hes worked real hard....twice....if you look at what hes talking about, as in the notes that are included in each and how they relate to each other its not rocket science.....the hard part is practicing enough to A) have a vocab that big ingrained and at your fingertips at all times B) make it your own...hence jazz
smeier84 2 years ago
amen. all the talent in the world won't let you play jazz without a TON of work.
rillloudmother 2 years ago
the second time was easier im sure....he had the muscle memory still....
thejazzman8 2 years ago
This dude is unreal, what a story and talent.
benthemiester 2 years ago 2
The scale tones are woven into the fabric of the phrase.One cannot discard how the scale tones are woven into the fabric of the phrase.Its how the scale tones are used contextually that gives them their identity.
KABRIS1 2 years ago
The roots of the sub chords spell a diminished chord. E,G,Bb,Db. That means each sub chord is as harmonically distant from the root chord as the previous. The only two notes not included in those chords are the maj7 and the minor third. The way to apply this is to hit notes in the key of the root chord on downbeats and hit chords in the key of the substitute chords on the upbeats. for instance you could play, starting on a downbeat. A,Ab,G,Gb,F,Eb,C#.Bb,A and it would fit over an amin7#5 chord.
Mleyberklee 2 years ago
I don't get using Em7 over A7#5
the E will clash with the F which is the sharp 5! Doesn't sound good to me.
Boldstrummer 2 years ago
There are many clashes with those 4 subs but they're supposed to be used melodically; it depends how you resolve what doesn't sound good to make it sound good.
Even if you don't use any subs, A7#5 still has an E because the #5 is really a b13. In Cm9 the Eb clashes with the D, right?
cristuspz 2 years ago
@Boldstrummer
Em7 to A7 (sharp 5) is a II V. Both are interchangeable. Joe pass went staright to the dominant, and Pat Martino goes straight for the minor. You should start with looking at two fives before you even begin to think about this video.
jamboliboli 1 year ago
@Boldstrummer How can you not understand a basic II V?
jamboliboli 1 year ago
It's based on key centers. Find were the major scale starts then you apply the substitution. here's the example.. 1-3-5 is the major triad.. 2-4-6 is the minor triad play a cmajor7 then play the 2-4-6 triad over this. just keep stacking the triads.. if you start at 5-7-9 against the cmajor7 you will create a dominate sound go up one more.6-8-10 or "6-2-4" your playing a natural minor chord.. When they started GIT they never taught modes they taught Key centers. learn the majr and all triads
Dking863 2 years ago
@Dking863 What a load of bullshit.
jamboliboli 1 year ago
@jamboliboli Fuck U. I was taught music theory by Don Mock. First instructor @ GIT 1-3-5-7-2-4-6 theres the major scale. I just got rid of the 9 and replaced it with the #2 "which it is" since there is only 7 notes in the major scale. chords work in thirds! modes do the same: Phyrigian, it's the 3rd mode. it starts on the 3rd degree of the Major scale. it would look like this 3-5-7-1 from the key center. its a major 7th chord if the bass is on 1 and it's a minor 7th if the bass is on 3
Dking863 1 year ago
@Dking863 did Don Mock charge you?
Yes yes, but my point is, Pat Martino doesn't think in modes ever!
I'm saying your tackling this issue from all the possible wrong angles.
jamboliboli 1 year ago
@Dking863
You are cluttering something which is very very simple.
jamboliboli 1 year ago
@jamboliboli we now agree on something! that was my whole point. this is all very simple once you understand it! But your wrong about one part. Frank Gambale would go off if heard the "don't use modes" you have to know were the 3rds and 7ths are when the band is playing. Scales are generic. chords have harmony. you need to know your chords and this means you need to know your modes and your intervals! BTW Don Mock and Pat martino go way back as friends and Don Mock smokes on the guitar..
Dking863 1 year ago
@Dking863
So you're saying that when Pat says in this video 'I don't think in terms of modes' that he is lying?
jamboliboli 1 year ago
@Dking863
knowing where the 3rds and 7ths are on the guitar doesn't mean you need to know modes my friend. Say that to Tal Farlow!
You're just another player caught up in clutter when it's not needed.
jamboliboli 1 year ago
@jamboliboli I just realized I'm talking to an idiot! You have no idea what your taking about! what is a C maj#11, The chord is Lydian and one needs to understand that to understand the essence of the chord. All the jazz greats knew this stuff long ago. Pat Martino understands all of this. Pat and Don were great friends and talked about theory for years. go back to school or show us a video of you playing. pat got to the point in his life that he understood all of this crap! u Dont
Dking863 1 year ago
@Dking863 and that's great for Frank Gambale.
jamboliboli 1 year ago
he's not calling it the chromatic scale because he's not using the chromatic scale. Just because your using chromatic notes doesn't mean you're playing chromatic scale. If he were playing chromatic scale he's be treating all the notes the same but if you have the ears to hear, he's using the non-diatonic tones as approaching and neighboring tones with the landing point emphasis on notes within the scales he mentions. So in short, that's why!
geoffstockton 2 years ago
It's called a dominate 5. the only place to go chromatic is the 5th position from the major scale, because it's dominate it allows you to flat the 5 or sharpen the 5 same with the 9.. 90 percent of jazz was written in the 2-5-1 but there are areas that allow for the harmoni minor to play into this.. its all just the major scale. but some areas allow for the harmonic minor to be played but it's very few chords. the 5 position is where you can get sick and out of bounds. just can't flat the 7
Dking863 2 years ago
He's so dry it's comical- like in the Holy Grail. "The number of the counting shall be 3, and 3 shall be the number of the counting. Neither shalt thou count 2 unless thou proceedest on to 3." But I love his playing. Very unique.
gingervytis 2 years ago
He sure knows his theory and he can play like a robot, but I just can't find it musically entertaining.
YofterMofter 2 years ago
the Christopher Walkin of jazz guitar gurus
jipidibipity 2 years ago
HOLY EFF
saxophonefreak101 2 years ago
I thought we were talking about playing over an A7 #5 chord not an A min7b5.
baldheadedjohn 2 years ago
HOLY MACKEREL!
Undercurrentuk1 2 years ago
Also you can use, as a b5 substitute over any E minor chord, the Bb Lydian Dominant scale. it is a very interesting sound.
Hypnus9 2 years ago
I have trouble with this concept. What does Am7b5 have to do with Em7 or Gm7? It's ii of G harmonic minor, but where does he get these substitutions from, and why do those work better than any other, say F#m7 sub for Am7b5?
Anyone?
earlgrey626 2 years ago
Well, it is basically superimposing outside harmonies over a seemingly unrelated chord. Try this on for size: Play a Bb7 Arpeggio over am Em7 chord and resolve to an E minor scale. This is known as the b5 substitution, commonly in use by most jazzers. It is not that they necessarily work 'better' over the changes-it actually gives more tension, which demands a resolution to either the tonic, the 3rd, the 5th or the 7th, depending on where you want to take the line.
Hypnus9 2 years ago 3
Right. Bb7 over Em7 makes and Em7b5b9.
I see that a couple of ignoramuses gave thumbs down... guess they're country "music" players.
gingervytis 2 years ago
F#m7 contains F# A C# and E so the only note that wouldn't drastically clash with the Am7b5 would be the A. Substitutes are only substitutes when the majority of the chord tones are common to both chords. I hope that answers that.
geoffstockton 2 years ago
Did you mean it's a sub when the chord tones "aren't" common? If they're common, it would be in the scale, right? Also, does this mean that you can only superimpose triads over them, rather than the whole diatonic scale of those substituted triads? He must be getting all these notes from somewhere, and it can't just be chromatic embellishment of 3 or 4 chord tones, so is it a matter of substituting the whole scales?
earlgrey626 2 years ago
Think of it this way...analyze each scale tone in all the minor keys but with A7#5 as the root chord. so em7 starting at E gives you the 5th, 6th, 7th, root, 9th, #9,3rd(if dorian) and the 4th. Bbm7 would give you b9, #9, 3rd, b5, #5, 6th, 7th(if dorian) and Maj7.
these substitutions are just ways to grab altered tones like #9 and #5 by using licks you already know over minor chords.
THEVIKINGISHERE 2 years ago
it's all common. everything is based on one scale the major scale.. There are areas that will allow for the harmonic minor to work . but its all based on this.. 1st position is Ionian which is a major7 4. is lydian which is a major7. they will sound very similar cause there is one difference in the triad. the 5th position is l major also but it's called a dominate. this little chord has eleven variables to it. the others are minor7ths. positions 2-3-6, the 7th position is a minor flat5 7-2-f5
Dking863 2 years ago
HAHA WHAT?!!
jbrstockport 2 years ago 3
Way over my head
This guy is redic
sometimehuh 2 years ago
My head just exploded! ; )
johnnyjolijt 2 years ago 3
the video aint doin his tone justice..give it a break
10fingersofdeath 2 years ago
that's one weird cat
greenfish88 2 years ago
Great info from an erudite player! Always loved his playing; yet I agree with some who don't like his tone - for me, I wish he had a little bit more treble. Just a matter of taste. his "Live at Yoshis" CD is 5 stars. *****
ratraceloser 2 years ago
Take a look at his book "Linear Expressions" as well as his website "Nature of the Guitar" and this will become slightly less opaque.
Pat is a living legend.
TAFNACV 3 years ago
i don't like his tone, great player tho.
tropics1020 3 years ago
I mean, what DVD is this lesson from? lol
CKM6972 3 years ago
The DVD is from 'Creative Force I' ;-)
jacobe888 3 years ago
No, I have both Creative Force 1 and 2 where he wears his stripped sweater. This lesson was done later (he's more gray and wearing a shirt).
I have no idea what DVD this is from.
CKM6972 3 years ago
Oh..I mean it's from 'Quantum Guitare - Advanced Consepts'
jacobe888 3 years ago
What lesson is this DVD from?
CKM6972 3 years ago
not sure about the analysis...just at the stage of diggin the sound...he's amazing
zu0832 3 years ago
Does someone have a Martino's video about his life called "open road"? I'm a fan of his music, but I can't find this video.
PatricioLeija 3 years ago
There is a simple way to understand this. First he's taking an A7 chord. The #5 is irrelevant as the substitutions begin with Em (E is the natural 5th of A). The other three substitutions are Gm Bbm and Dbm. Their overall pattern is the same as a group of 4 diminished scales a minor third apart: E G Bb Db. Then he says just combine any two of these. Job done!
drwinkle101 3 years ago
i humbley bow before GREATNESS...
XDBBC 3 years ago
Martino rules! Love how simply he expresses himself. You can hear a teacher's patience in his voice.
His tone reminds me of the background playing I used to hear on the Revue Studios Western, "The Deputy"....
westpoint64 3 years ago 3
I posted a version of this video, which is tuned to A=440Hz, check it out..use search words : 'Martino tuned 440'
jacobe888 3 years ago
what is meant with "lineforms"? Are these scales or arpeggios?
GrenouilleOnline 3 years ago
no entendi las sustituciones
q modos se forman???
y al usar esas tonalidades menores se refiere a usar el arpegio de tetrada?(1,3m, 5J, b7)o usar escalas menores (natural, armonica, melodica, doria, etc)
0MachucA0 3 years ago
Hola te recomiendo que consigas el video si te es posible, Pat no usa los modos que mencionas aunque tambien pueden ser interpretado de esa forma, yo tengo sus videos y la informacion que da es valiosa.
PatricioLeija 3 years ago
Anybody out there notice that there mouth is hanging open slightly, and their head is moving left to right when they watch this?
My curse is that I never played with a pick, and now at 60, will probably never be able to "pick" it up.
sclogse1 3 years ago 4
Pat's ability is so extraordinary it makes one wonder about reincarnation
shetalkscrazytalk84 3 years ago
btw I adore all Pat Martino's cd's, he is amazing, even after his illness.
thanx for posting
axisgirl 3 years ago
He's clearly using pentatonics:E pentatonic on Emin7.He's playin' some his ideas about miscellaneous of melodic minor/pentatonic/dorian/chromatism.He's using the melodic minor's degrees that i had explain in my first post.
About Db,now i understand:he's using Db MINOR(and not major..)because the 7b of DB...B.
B is also the 2nd/9(omitted)in A7#5.If he had played Db pent. major,the 7th would have been C..and C is minor 3rd in A7#5,so C would have been dissonant..
Thanks dude!
StevieRayVaughan84 3 years ago
You should see how he personally answered this question about Db minor against A7#5 (or A7b13)...I can give you a link..
jacobe888 3 years ago