This dude exhibits bad behavior. I shall use him as an example to my future children, so they will know that bad is everything that goes against human nature.
Thanks for the friend! This vid. scared the crap out of me. I thought this might be some serious religiosity. Wow I have come a long way. I've wondered what I would do in a church service. A) Stand up and publicly denounce the preacher. B) Sit and shake C) Run for cover. Turns out it would be D) LOL!
I believe I'm sinful to the bone but I don't feel bad about it.
I always thought the whole point of grace was that you didn't have to be perfect to be loved?
Anywho I hate the tendency towards "worm theology", where people just go "Oh lord I am a worm I am a worm", but still act like self righteous douchebags.
"I'm perverse, I'm sinful, I'm selfish, I'm wrong!" Yeah, mate, but you need to focus on the positive too: for example, your tie goes well with your shirt.
This is a core truth: People who think they are worthless, are unable to accomplish anything worthwhile. Christianity sucks the life energy out of its followers like a parasite. People need to have self respect to be able to have nobility and goodness, yet christianity (while claiming to be a force of goodness) destroys their self-respect, thus crippling their capacity to do good.
Christianity brought modernity to the world. Without us - you pagans would still be stomping around in your mud huts. People need to have humility and serve others. They have lots of self respect - just need a little more of respect for others. CATHOLIC STATE for me - cos the good alone will survive!
@amaqula People need to be able to respect themselves before they are able to respect other people. Catholicism, is propably the worst that christianity has to offer. You are advocationg something that I consider to be pure evil. In my opinion, you are working on the side of darkness.
And they do - people not only respect themselves (though not in the moral sense) but they indulge themselves. Not a good basis for anything. You are working for Satan - cos you are against Christ (God Hismelf). Keep yourself to yourself please! CATHOLIC STATE for me!
@amaqula By self respect I didn't mean egoism or self gratification, just healthy self esteem. I wonder what would happen to people like me in the catholic state that you dream of.
Yeah - most people have self respect in bucketfulls (though not of the moral kind). And for those fragile souls that don't have it - I suggest contemplating on the fact that God made them unique as they are - cos He wanted to! Self suggestion of the atheist kind ie that they are very great will not help. Nothing would happen to people like you in a CATHOLIC STATE - you would just be expected to follow the laws of the land like I do in a secular land. CATHOLIC STATE for me!
sigh ... If only religion actually stick to their purpose: give peace of mind to their followers. Really sad to see how their fanaticism poisons their mind... Nice video man, and your kids are beautiful :) I wish someday I might have a family like that, all loving and free from any religion
*sigh* ... If only religion actually stick to their purpose: give peace of mind to their followers. Really sad to see how their fanaticism poisons their mind... Nice video man, and your kids are beautiful :) I wish someday I might have a family like that, all loving and free from any religion
*sigh* ... If only religion actually stick to their purpose: give peace of mind to their followers. Really sad to see how their fanaticism poisons their mind... Nice video man, and your kids are beautiful :) I wish someday I might have a family like that, all loving and free from any religion
*sigh* ... If only religion actually stick to their purpose: give peace of mind to their followers. Really sad to see how their fanaticism poisons their mind... Nice video man, and your kids are beautiful :) I wish someday I might have a family like that, all loving and free from any religion
I have been babysitting a friends daughter every since her daughter was 6 months old. She is now 2 years old. Whenever they come over, her daughter only wants me to hold her and she cries whenever I leave the room. She is such a beautiful child in my eyes. I don't care what that idiot says. I will never say that she is worthless. I will never punish her the way that the bible wants me to discipline her. If she does something wrong, I will try to explain to her why she is wrong with kind words.
Hey Steve, Just wanted to thank you for "likeing" my Eruption vid dude! Subbed to your channel, and can't wait for more great videos from you. I also was a Christian for most of my life, until I actually gave it any serious thought. What a shame soooo damn many good people, (including my whole family) have that horrible mind fuck! :)
If God ever gets angry about anything I do, or that my child does, then he is quite welcome to come talk to me about it like anyone else, and I'll hear him out. However, his reasoning better go further than 'I don't like it', because that's just hard cheese.
however, if he never shows himself to express any concerns, I'll assume he thinks I'm doing just fine or that he doesn't mind either way. (or maybe, just maybe, he doesn't exist).
Sir, you have some beautiful children as do I. If ANYBODY tries to tell me that my daughters are "BAD/Evil" they are going to answer to me and my size 11.5 steel toe combat boots.
that guy has a real issue. he lives his life in guilt thinking about doing bad things and his imaginary friend is mad on him. human kind is nor bad nor good and children are a product of education and society. this guy is a shame for every sane person.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
cp, based on the comments here,you succeeded in manipulating people's emotions in order to get them to hate Christian doctrine. Show an "angry" and "hateful" preacher then play nice, soft music with cute baby pictures to make him look like the world's biggest butt-hole. What is that tactic called again?
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On a lighter note, your children are absolutely adorable. Congrats and,heck,good job!! I can see where they get it. You're not too bad looking yourself, and.. Ok, I'm just gonna stop there :P
@AgApE010 "On a lighter note, your children are absolutely adorable."
Thanks Danny (that's right isn't it?) for the kind comment. They are the most important part of my life, and the reason I finally left my faith (although I know you disagree with this).
@AgApE010 "cp, based on the comments here,you succeeded in manipulating people's emotions in order to get them to hate Christian doctrine."
This video was actually directed at Christians. I suspect those who commented negatively about "Christian doctrine" already hated it before they saw the video. As your doctrine would say, they really have no choice but to hate it, as they are totally depraved.
or maybe it is just that Christian doctrine is essentially blood loving, life hating, and in short, disgusting nonsense that should be thrown on the trash heap of history?
Total Depravity doesn't teach that man is incapable of good. It teaches that man is unable to choose outside of his nature, namely, choose Christ apart from God first choosing him. Honestly, if you do not even understand these doctrines, why are you trying to talk about them?
No, you didn't understand me correctly. Piper is right in saying that. However, this doesn't mean that a child is incapable of doing good deeds as well (indeed, man,even an unbeliever,can do much good). However, because our nature is sinful, the good that we do is never truly good in God's sight, which is why He offers grace through Christ. In short, you need to distinguish between doing good and doing the kind of good to meet God's standards. I think that's where you're confused.
@AgApE010 "However, this doesn't mean that a child is incapable of doing good deeds as well"
Where did I say this in my video? Are you referring to my comment to 1689Baptist who said that you never have to teach a child to do bad? I simply questioned his statement, as it implies a significant inconsistency (i.e. if a child does bad he/she is bad, but if a child does good he/she isn't good). Additionally, I believe I used quotes around 'good'. Am I wrong?
You didn't say it in your video. I perceived from your comment that you saw a discrepancy between my comment that "Total Depravity doesn't teach that man is incapable of good" and Piper's comment that children do bad things because they are bad. You yourself asked "you would disagree with him (Piper)?" which lead me to assume that you saw an inconsistency or discrepancy between my comment and his. Did I misunderstand?
@AgApE010 "...which lead me to assume that you saw an inconsistency or discrepancy between my comment and his. Did I misunderstand?"
No, you didn't misunderstand me. Teaching that we do bad things (like lie) because we are bad has consistency problems. It implies that the reverse is also true, we do good things (like tell the truth) because we are good. However, I don't think either Piper or you believe this.
"It implies that the reverse is also true, we do good things because we are good"
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The discrepancy is resolved by what I had previously noted, namely that there is a difference between doing good and doing the kind of good that God requires. Because we are indeed internally and inherently sinful, we cannot do good by God's standards. But we are more than capable of doing good by our own standards.
@TheGenuineChristian: Because you sincerely believe that our children need to be saved from our godless ways. Because the suggestion that unbelievers will burn forever is sickeningly offensive. Because religion permitted to run riot historically results in doctors and scientists being burned at the stake. Because the preacher in the video here is an extreme example of the infectious superstitious insanity that's plagued our species for millenia.
1) Children that cannot even comprehend the Bible have barely anything to be accountable for.
2) The language of "forever and ever" is used of being a long time or for a sure thing to happen. Consider Isa 34:10, "the smoke thereof shall go up for ever" this is ancient history, yet where is the smoke? Also, "one shall pass through it for ever and ever" and yet people pass through there today.
3) The same evil can be said of any religious group and non-religious groups.
1) According to some Christians; many (including our preacher in the video) would disagree with that perspective.
2) Apologetics. Are you saying the damned get forgiven eventually? That's not in the Bible, and there's still burning involved somewhere along the line.
3) That's why I said "religion", without specifying Christianity; the Bible just happens to be the most prevalent manual of superstition in our culture.
1) Piper just happens to be here to point out. My point was that extending the doctrine of Original Sin to children is a major issue that Atheists find hateful in Christianity.
2) You're still saying that people go to hell to be tortured; again, this is something Atheists believe should not be taught to anyone, least of all kids.
3) Individual Atheists, sure; Atheism isn't an ideology though, it's just non-belief in God. A non-belief cannot motivate people to do harm.
2) Of course, there is no way getting around it, especially if you're an atheist.
3) A non-belief cannot motivate people to do harm? LOL. Tell that to Ukrainian and Russian mafios. I think you need to do some exploring of the world, not just some random atheists you meet on the internet or in that tiny town of your's.
2) Atheists don't accept the notion that the threat of torture is in any way a moral incentive to living a good life, let alone a happy one.
3) Organized criminals are motivated by greed; non-belief in God doesn't motivate Russian mobsters to crime; the Mafia are Catholics, belief in God doesn't stop them.
The same cannot be said for Jihadis, the Crusaders, the Inquisition, Thugi Fanatics... now name one Atheist who did something *because* they were an Atheist.
@JCLeSinge You obviously are completely ignorant of Ukrainian and Russian mafios. This is hilarious. They are able to shot your baby in the dead, cut off your wife's head in front of you right after they rape her, stab a pregnant woman in the stomache, etc, because they don't believe in God and thus no punishment for their crimes. I'm a Ukrainian, I know how it all works. You're stuck in fairyland.
@TheGenuineChristian: You asked "why are Atheists angry with Christianity"; I'm just telling you the answer.
You also missed my point: The Italian Mafia believe in God, they're just as violent and nasty as the Ukrainian and Russian mob. If they're able to get away with their crimes, it's not because of belief or non-belief in God. It's because they're *organised* crime; syndicates that protect their members from temporal punishment. God doesn't stop believers committing crime.
Crazypills2, you are an awesome dad. You keep up the good work (and the wonderful videos!) I know we don't "rate" videos by stars anymore, but 5/5, man.
@ReligionFreeDeist "My wife loved the pictures of your boys, she wants kids sooo bad."
Well Jordan, I think you would make a wonderful father. Although they are the most wonderful things in my life, kids take up a lot of time. I fear your video output would decrease substantially :-)
@Widgetas: You'd be surprised. English Christians may be more low-key about it, but Evangelicals and Pentacostals in the UK regularly pray for Armaggedon. Seriously, they'll never admit it, but I know whereof I speak; this guy is extreme, but there is *at least* one fundie psychopath in every Church in England covertly spreading this fundamentalist crap, and virtually all *moderate* UK Christians are willing to consider it. They're here; all they lack is political power to make real noise.
@Widgetas: Seriously; the CofE is almost universally Moderate, but as soon as you step outside of "Regular Church", you're swimming with the Creationists. UK Christians bored of the dullness in CofE services go to the Evangelicals, but the Pentacostals are here and they're worse. If you're secure in your intellect and live in London, visit Kensington Temple in Notting Hill Gate, 2 minutes from the station. Anytime on a Sunday; they have four services a day, and they're phucking insane.
@Widgetas: Sorry. If it's any consolation, they're not a political force here in England. It's more that moderate Christians are susceptible to persuasion by Biblical "reasoning", so the minority Creationists sneak about English churches trying to pass on their brain-fever. There are hardly any of 'em in C-of-E churches, they're a sizeable minority among Evangelicals, and prevelant among Pentacostals.
More worrying is that ALL Muslims are Creationists by default, and most folk don't know this.
@crazypills2: Eat them? Blasphemer! Don't you know that the smell of burning flesh is pleasing to the Lord, and that He is a jealous God who will NOT share his dinner? Send the kiddies back to Jehovah before they have a chance to displease Him; kill 'em with fire!
@pjssjr Hell yeah! My daughter is 8 months old now, and she is the light of my life! She is not a bad person, she is amazing. Children are wonderful! That preacher really irritates me!
Great video!, disturbing but I am sure that was part of the intent. This age old technique to diminish one (at the core) so, they can be "transformed, molded and mind contolled". I am not a supporter of Hate Crime legislation. But if there was ever a "true crime of hate" ....here it is. What mentally and emotionally is worse than stamping out the individual in the name of sin? This is BS. This is real hate. Hate of humanity and intolerance for uniqueness outside of religion.
@EuphoricImpact "What mentally and emotionally is worse than stamping out the individual in the name of sin? This is BS. This is real hate. Hate of humanity and intolerance for uniqueness outside of religion"
Are those your kids, Steve? If so, you've got a great family. I can tell you're a loving, protecting, and nurturing father because you'll never tell you're kids that they are inherantly bad people. Inherantly bad people would do horrible things out of despondancy or desperation, believing that they have no hope. And not that weird xtian "jesus hope" either. Great vid... :)
00:01-00:55: It's rare that I see or hear someone who, within one minute, can convince me that the most humane thing would be to take them outside, point out something nice for them to look at, and shoot 'em in the back of the head. Seriously. I don't often think that, and when I do, it usually takes a damn sight longer than one frikkin' minute to reach that conclusion. That preacher needs to be put down like a rabid dog; he's got brain fever.
@JCLeSinge That preacher is a horrible man, huh? I'm really conflicted, being a more gentle person, between killing him for the sake of humaninty, or just running him out of any civlilized country...
@gustjorodedheo: That's why I said "humane"; running this guy out into the wilderness would condemn him to a lingering death. I don't want to torture the guy; I don't want him to suffer at all... but equally I don't want this psychopath to hurt any children, which he outright says he plans to do because he thinks this is "good". He's clearly beyond help, a danger to the most vulnerable innocents in society. So a bullet in the skull is the most humane compromise; put him out of our kids' misery.
@ozmoroid "Teaching children they are "bad" is real live child abuse. This is at the heart of Christianity"
It is. If there were no reason for us to be 'saved', then there would be no reason for Jesus. If there were no need for Jesus, then there would be no need for Christianity.
Feelings that went through my mind: shock, disgust, anger, disgust again, anger again!!! How am I supposed to RESPECT.. THIS?!?!?!?! How convincing a child that she's a pile of shit is gonna make her a better person? More productive? More intelligent? The guy on the podium is a criminal type, as far as I am, very much, sure of!!! I would not ever agree for that psychotic FUCK to ever open his fucked up mouth to any child!!! Any child, at all!!! This is fucking sick!!!!!!
@bigsteakjoe "I would not ever agree for that psychotic FUCK to ever open his fucked up mouth to any child!!! Any child, at all!!! This is fucking sick!!!!!!"
"Original Sin" is a pseudoproblem that was invented to give Christians the opportunity to sell their pesudosolution. That is, "Original Sin" is merely a manipulative psychological ploy. The People of the Old Testament invented the story of Eve eating the apple to explain why a loving god would create thorns and thistles, make man live by the sweat of his brow, and cause women to suffer great pain in childbirth. Then Christianity hijacked and distorted the story with a different stratagem in mind
@unseenstrings: The OT story of Adam & Eve is an inversion of older myths; the Babylonians (the OT's main source for plagiarism) had myths that accord with virtually every other culture on Earth wherein the serpent represents wisdom, women are credited with intuition and men with reason, and eating the damn apple resulted in immortality. ONLY the OT reverses this; Google Joseph Campbell for detailed essays on the topic.
@JCLeSinge, I have the HB ed of The Power of Myth. My son said one of the things that turned him into an atheist was sitting with me in the evenings watching Cosmos and Bill Moyer's interviews, like the one with Campbell.
I'll agree The Bible has plenty of plagiarizing. But I suspect most of the plagiarizing was unconscious. The garden tale likely was one accumulated during oral tradition and eventually got written down. Associating satyrs with sin-burdened scapegoats may have been intentional.
@unseenstrings: I saw "The Power of Myth"; it had a strong effect on me too. But I'm not convinced the Biblical plagiarism was unconscious; we're talking about a religion with a stated intent of opposing the gods and traditions of its rivals. Besides the frequent moral inversions of other cultures' myths, there's the repeated assertion that wisdom is foolishness, that the knowledge and beliefs of contemporary cultures are outright evil; political motives seem far more likely than mere accident.
@JCLeSinge, good point. Religion has been involved in politics right from the get-go. However, I would be skeptical about assuming ALL biblical stories that originated elsewhere & ended up in the Old Testament were consciously plagiarized. The agenda of the writers was obvious when they associated "sin-burdened" goats with the Greek God Pan. Christians came along later & drew pictures of their God Satan in the image of Pan (equivalent to the Roman God, Faunus). Other examples abound, as you say.
@unseenstrings: I hadn't made the connection between Scapegoats and Pan; well spotted.
I think the unconscious plagiarism became more the case in the NT; in the OT, particularly in Genesis and the earlier books, the moral inversion is too clear and detailed to be accidental (or so I reckon).
But the NT was written mostly in Greek, and it's there that the concepts of Heaven & Hell suddenly come to mirror Elysium & Tartarus; largely, I think, as an accidental result of the linguistic shift.
If we were following a column of smoke by day and fire by night, leading us to a mountain trembling and shaking, I'm sure today we'd deduce it was a volcano. And when someone went up the mountain and came back down appearing all white, we'd deduce it was a layer of ash. A bush that burned but wasn't consumed was most likely carbonized by lava. The OT authors were good at taking stories of actual phenomena and events and injecting their myths into them. The human is easily befuddled and beguiled.
@unseenstrings: Add to that the pre-existing belief that Yahweh was a Mountain God (AKA "El-Shadai", meaning either "mountain god" or "Most High"), and we have a rationale for the Hebrews heading to their Holy Mountain as indicated by the column of smoke, where they expected their God to be waiting.
But El-Shaddai was originally a Mesopotamian deity, before the Hebrews got hold of him and changed his name; that particular myth was plagiarism plus ad-hoc rationalizing of observed phenomena.
I am with you brother... any one who teaches this sick belief to anyone, especially children, is a depraved, self-loathing individual who should not be around children or adults.
Anyone who tries to tell this to my kids gets a punch in the throat.
As did you with mine, not only with the video, but the flattering gesture of replying to my comment as well. Sincerely, thank you. Keep up the great work.
Beautiful - just beautiful. I have told my Dad in recent years how much I hated being told as a kid that we are all 'filthy rags' in the eyes of god. Your kids are gorgeous.
The subject of this video is a creep who wants to tell children they are inherently bad. I believe it is a suck mind that tries to convinces others that they are inherently bad; it produces dysfunctional people. But equally, telling kids that they are all fantastic, beautiful, smart, etc. doesn't produce adults with good self esteem, it produces narcissists.
I don't believe we are either inherently good or bad. All we are is inherently human.
I can understand why Xians may assume we are born with a "sinful" nature. I once heard my granddaughter say, "I wish mommy were dead." I can't remember her exact age. I'm thinking 4 or 5. At about the same age, I was told I picked up a cocked BB gun and shot my younger brother; and the BB is still in his chin 59 years later. And I've seen kids barely more than mere babes lock on to someone and bite with all their might. Of course, we were ignorant little animals at the time. Sin is a delusion.
Hmm.. so the question is are people inherantly bad or not? In what sense?
Yes - people inherantly selfish, proud, angry and prone to irrational and hurtful behaviour.
No - it's not bad, it's natural, just like the "good" impulses. When you understand you are an animal you understand the "sinful" part is just a survival trait, with good reason behind it, like an extra skill.
Remember, we are crap, crap, crap. But God love us, sort of. We have to show our love for this monster by, not thinking, self hate, hating those not like us, and following jerks like John Piper. OH HELL NO.
Funny, how you never need to teach a baby how to be deceitful or be selfish or throw a mad fit or take things that don't belong to them, no you must teach them NOT to do these things. It is in their nature to sin.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
@1689Baptist babies also don't hate anyone because of the colour of their skin, the philosophy they choose to follow, or the person they love THOSE are the truly evil traits are very carefully taught.
@nelliediddle That may be true but let me tell you what he will do. An 18 month old baby see your watch while you are holding him, he reaches for it, you tell him ,NO, he starts to cry and reaches for it again, you tell him, NO, he starts screaming and flinging his arms, at that moment if he had the strength of an 18yr old man he would kill you where you stand and take the watch anyway.
@1689Baptist hunny chile I have two lovely children one of whom is possibly the most empathetic individuals I have ever met. Neither of them have any "religious" affiliation. I also worked for 20 years in the school system. The really awful kids the one who deliberately hurt people & I mean make a conscience effort to cause pain to another have in the large part been from "nice religious families" you can quote bible verse to me all day your are still full of sheit
@nelliediddle I'm with you. The most hateful, intolerant and violent people I've ever known, have invariably been entrenched in some kind of dogmatic religious mindset, and often acting on its behalf. Of course, that is only my personal experience...
Now, to the issue of mr. Baptist:
"Psalm 127:3 Behold, children are a gift of the LORD; The fruit of the womb is a reward."
Wow - this god guy really is a sadist. He wants us to have a nice, evil baby, as a reward!?!?
@B9Sign "Psalm 127:3 Behold, children are a gift of the LORD; The fruit of the womb is a reward." This in no way contradicts the doctrine of total depravity.
I still believe children are a gift from God, but I in noway pretend that they don't need correction and their sinful nature dealt with.
@1689Baptist Ah! So, you are one of those sheep with the mental acuity of a citrus fruit. Thanks for clearing that up - it explains the content of most of your comments...
@1689Baptist There's more than two ways to raise a child: The options are not simply 1) raise in the name of the LOOORRRD to cleanse children of their sinful nature or 2) let them run riot.
I was raised secular and never had a religion forced on me. Ask anyone you want who saw me and my sister when we were growing up and ask how we used to behave. You won't get the answer you hope you will - Craps all over your "sin" argument somewhat.
@nelliediddle I have three grown children also so I know what I am talking about. Thankfully all three love the Lord Jesus Christ, but that does not mean they never displayed their sinful nature.
@1689Baptist you also have to teach children to speak, how to use the toilet , how to eat food with their mouth closed... it's all about socialization and has NOTHING to do with being sinful...let me ask you this do you believe dogs have souls and go to live with God and Jesus in heaven when they die if they've been good little doggies?
@nelliediddle There you go, as you said you have to teach kids HOW to do these things. But when it comes to sin we don't have to teach them HOW we have to teach them NOT to sin.
No, little doggies don't have a soul and go to doggy heaven. LOL
@1689Baptist well no that's not what I said...but if doggies don't have should why teach them not to bite? OBVIOUSLY by your logic says we stop biting because it's sinful... and that's the only reason to teach anything, and if doggies don't have souls it doesn't matter if they bite. buh bye thanks for playing it's been fun
@WavegirlThinks That is the whole point, babies are not able to way the consequences of there action, so the illustration I gave shows the unrestrained wickedness of man. An 18 yr old man has the ability to way the consequences of killing for a watch.
You mean "weigh"? Assuming your proposition that babies illustrate the unrestrained character of humanity, then it is just as logical to conclude that humans are inherently 'good' due to their expression of positive attributes like sharing.
However, your proposition is flawed, as babies are not actually fully developed people. i.e. are not fully representative of the character or psychology of an adult.
@WavegirlThinks Yes I did mean "weigh" I didn't catch that.
The problem is the bible teaches that the "good" that man does (babies included) is only good on a human level but it is still sin and wicked before God.
So all the human-level 'good' Jesus supposedly did was sinful? Because I thought the whole point was that he had no sins (other than original sin).
Declaring that even the good people do is bad makes your whole argument (that babies display our inherent wickedness) void. You could just point to an aid worker helping dying children and shout "SIN".
It’s a very convenient way to disregard any good people display. It’s also circular reasoning.
@WavegirlThinks Pro 21:4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin. See even a "good" thing like plowing a field to raise a crop corn is sin to a man that is still in his sinful nature, b/c he dies not plow it for the glory of God. So, the aid worker helping dying children if not saved by grace through faith does not help children for the glory of God therefore it is sin.
Jesus was born perfect, with no sin nature, His human-level good was not sin.
Jesus committed no sins but was still marked by Original sin. Therefore he could not be perfect and did have sin in his nature.
The Bible declares everything we do as wicked, so why do you feel the need to point out negative traits humanity displays as proof?
It also strikes me as hypocritical that god can do nice things to us because he loves us, and it'll be a good act, but if we do something nice because we love 'his creations' too, it’s bad.
@WavegirlThinks (Jesus committed no sins but was still marked by Original sin. Therefore he could not be perfect and did have sin in his nature.) This is wrong, Jesus had NO original, sin everything he did was GOOD, pure, and perfect, He lived life in perfect obedience to His Father, the way we were supposed to but cannot b/c of sin. See this is how we get to heaven, those that believe in Jesus get His perfect Life imputed to them, so we go to heaven on His merit, even with our demerit.
The denomination I was raised in believed Jesus had original sin through Mary. They believed his purpose was to experience and overcome man’s fallen nature and thus save us all. Different denominations have different opinions on that matter.
Also, several people other than Jesus were reputedly completely obedient to god i.e. Job (Job 1:1-8), Zacharias and his wife Elisabeth (Luke 1:5-6).
Regardless, your argument was that the Bible telling us that we are wicked is true because babies display the inherent wickedness of man through their negative actions. I pointed out that babies show positive actions too and that infants cannot be representative of adult psychology anyway.
You invoked the bible to say that the good we do is wicked. But first you need to demonstrate the bible is true... which is what you were using babies for in the first place.
@WavegirlThinks I don't need to demonstrate the Bible is true, b/c the argument is whether John Piper is preaching a false view of Christianity, I am proving by the Bible he is not. Whether you believe the Bible is true is between you and God, if you don't believe in God then I guess you don't have anything to worry about. Also, my baby argument is just as sound as crazypills2 who argued by showing cute baby pictures.
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belfastfreethinker 1 week ago
This dude exhibits bad behavior. I shall use him as an example to my future children, so they will know that bad is everything that goes against human nature.
HeyRuka 1 year ago
Thanks for the friend! This vid. scared the crap out of me. I thought this might be some serious religiosity. Wow I have come a long way. I've wondered what I would do in a church service. A) Stand up and publicly denounce the preacher. B) Sit and shake C) Run for cover. Turns out it would be D) LOL!
pumpstations 1 year ago
Ya...tell children they're evil. Over and over again. Easiest way to ensure they'll do evil things - so you can "prove" yourself right.
The Cult of Christianity disgusts me in just about every way possible.
TheHigherVoltage 1 year ago
Appeal to emortion.... O.o
lnmylife 1 year ago
Wow. Lovely video. I have to subscribe (though you had me at "My sons will never be taught this crap.") :D
DukeNavarre 1 year ago
Also your kids are absolutely GORGEOUS. It's almost scary : ).
Sorry for flooding :p.
TheCarydal 1 year ago
@TheCarydal "Also your kids are absolutely GORGEOUS. It's almost scary : )."
Thanks TheCarydal, they take after their mother.
crazypills2 1 year ago
Despairing over your own sinfulness is itself pretty sinful and cowardly and self centered IMO.
"Oh I am a worm! I'm useless! I'm unlovable :(:(:(!"
It's a pathetic attitude.
I'm a christian btw.
TheCarydal 1 year ago
I believe I'm sinful to the bone but I don't feel bad about it.
I always thought the whole point of grace was that you didn't have to be perfect to be loved?
Anywho I hate the tendency towards "worm theology", where people just go "Oh lord I am a worm I am a worm", but still act like self righteous douchebags.
TheCarydal 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Another excellent video. It's people like John, here, that are perverse, sinful, selfish, and wrong, NOT their children. "Original Sin" is a lie.
BTW, your children are beautiful. :)
Epitome613 1 year ago
WOW!
It is just disgusting that someone could believe what this guy is spewing...
This shit pisses me off. What a sickening belief.
Zentz29 1 year ago
Thou shalt loathe thy neighbor as thou loathe thyself.
Lohitaksha 1 year ago
"I'm perverse, I'm sinful, I'm selfish, I'm wrong!" Yeah, mate, but you need to focus on the positive too: for example, your tie goes well with your shirt.
lexo30 1 year ago
This is a core truth: People who think they are worthless, are unable to accomplish anything worthwhile. Christianity sucks the life energy out of its followers like a parasite. People need to have self respect to be able to have nobility and goodness, yet christianity (while claiming to be a force of goodness) destroys their self-respect, thus crippling their capacity to do good.
Ravenkeep 1 year ago
@Ravenkeep
Christianity brought modernity to the world. Without us - you pagans would still be stomping around in your mud huts. People need to have humility and serve others. They have lots of self respect - just need a little more of respect for others. CATHOLIC STATE for me - cos the good alone will survive!
amaqula 1 year ago
@amaqula People need to be able to respect themselves before they are able to respect other people. Catholicism, is propably the worst that christianity has to offer. You are advocationg something that I consider to be pure evil. In my opinion, you are working on the side of darkness.
Ravenkeep 1 year ago
@Ravenkeep
And they do - people not only respect themselves (though not in the moral sense) but they indulge themselves. Not a good basis for anything. You are working for Satan - cos you are against Christ (God Hismelf). Keep yourself to yourself please! CATHOLIC STATE for me!
amaqula 1 year ago
@amaqula By self respect I didn't mean egoism or self gratification, just healthy self esteem. I wonder what would happen to people like me in the catholic state that you dream of.
Ravenkeep 1 year ago
@Ravenkeep
Yeah - most people have self respect in bucketfulls (though not of the moral kind). And for those fragile souls that don't have it - I suggest contemplating on the fact that God made them unique as they are - cos He wanted to! Self suggestion of the atheist kind ie that they are very great will not help. Nothing would happen to people like you in a CATHOLIC STATE - you would just be expected to follow the laws of the land like I do in a secular land. CATHOLIC STATE for me!
amaqula 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
sigh ... If only religion actually stick to their purpose: give peace of mind to their followers. Really sad to see how their fanaticism poisons their mind... Nice video man, and your kids are beautiful :) I wish someday I might have a family like that, all loving and free from any religion
Redbloodedsky 1 year ago
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*sigh* ... If only religion actually stick to their purpose: give peace of mind to their followers. Really sad to see how their fanaticism poisons their mind... Nice video man, and your kids are beautiful :) I wish someday I might have a family like that, all loving and free from any religion
Redbloodedsky 1 year ago
*sigh* ... If only religion actually stick to their purpose: give peace of mind to their followers. Really sad to see how their fanaticism poisons their mind... Nice video man, and your kids are beautiful :) I wish someday I might have a family like that, all loving and free from any religion
Redbloodedsky 1 year ago
*sigh* ... If only religion actually stick to their purpose: give peace of mind to their followers. Really sad to see how their fanaticism poisons their mind... Nice video man, and your kids are beautiful :) I wish someday I might have a family like that, all loving and free from any religion
Redbloodedsky 1 year ago
I have been babysitting a friends daughter every since her daughter was 6 months old. She is now 2 years old. Whenever they come over, her daughter only wants me to hold her and she cries whenever I leave the room. She is such a beautiful child in my eyes. I don't care what that idiot says. I will never say that she is worthless. I will never punish her the way that the bible wants me to discipline her. If she does something wrong, I will try to explain to her why she is wrong with kind words.
incoherentpoet 1 year ago
Hey Steve, Just wanted to thank you for "likeing" my Eruption vid dude! Subbed to your channel, and can't wait for more great videos from you. I also was a Christian for most of my life, until I actually gave it any serious thought. What a shame soooo damn many good people, (including my whole family) have that horrible mind fuck! :)
6stringsbrainfingers 1 year ago
I get it, & I like your message. & you are so right.
Donnatella624 1 year ago
LMAO @ Christina Aguilara in this vid
I mean I agree I was taught that as a kid, that you deserve hell and all that and it's pretty harsh on a kid
but just LOL Christina
theypretend 1 year ago
John Piper needs a padded cell.
TheHigherVoltage 1 year ago
If God ever gets angry about anything I do, or that my child does, then he is quite welcome to come talk to me about it like anyone else, and I'll hear him out. However, his reasoning better go further than 'I don't like it', because that's just hard cheese.
however, if he never shows himself to express any concerns, I'll assume he thinks I'm doing just fine or that he doesn't mind either way. (or maybe, just maybe, he doesn't exist).
AnonEyeMouse 1 year ago
Sir, you have some beautiful children as do I. If ANYBODY tries to tell me that my daughters are "BAD/Evil" they are going to answer to me and my size 11.5 steel toe combat boots.
ElvisKnucklehead 1 year ago
that guy has a real issue. he lives his life in guilt thinking about doing bad things and his imaginary friend is mad on him. human kind is nor bad nor good and children are a product of education and society. this guy is a shame for every sane person.
dobste 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
cp, based on the comments here,you succeeded in manipulating people's emotions in order to get them to hate Christian doctrine. Show an "angry" and "hateful" preacher then play nice, soft music with cute baby pictures to make him look like the world's biggest butt-hole. What is that tactic called again?
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On a lighter note, your children are absolutely adorable. Congrats and,heck,good job!! I can see where they get it. You're not too bad looking yourself, and.. Ok, I'm just gonna stop there :P
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 "On a lighter note, your children are absolutely adorable."
Thanks Danny (that's right isn't it?) for the kind comment. They are the most important part of my life, and the reason I finally left my faith (although I know you disagree with this).
crazypills2 1 year ago
@AgApE010 "cp, based on the comments here,you succeeded in manipulating people's emotions in order to get them to hate Christian doctrine."
This video was actually directed at Christians. I suspect those who commented negatively about "Christian doctrine" already hated it before they saw the video. As your doctrine would say, they really have no choice but to hate it, as they are totally depraved.
crazypills2 1 year ago
@AgApE010 that tactic is called " The truth tactic"
theeAlphaOne 1 year ago
@AgApE010
or maybe it is just that Christian doctrine is essentially blood loving, life hating, and in short, disgusting nonsense that should be thrown on the trash heap of history?
blackarrow125 1 year ago
John Piper can go fucking die! Fuck him!!
richaldeano 1 year ago
This made me cry...for the children of this man, if he has them, and the children of the people who subscribe to such vile filth.
Your babies are beautiful, crazypills. I can smile with them knowing they will never hear the crap this man spews.
debbieomi 1 year ago
Total Depravity doesn't teach that man is incapable of good. It teaches that man is unable to choose outside of his nature, namely, choose Christ apart from God first choosing him. Honestly, if you do not even understand these doctrines, why are you trying to talk about them?
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Atheists will never understand Biblical doctrine.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 "Total Depravity doesn't teach that man is incapable of good."
So when Piper said that children do bad things because they are bad, you would disagree with him. Did I understand you correctly?
crazypills2 1 year ago
@crazypills2
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No, you didn't understand me correctly. Piper is right in saying that. However, this doesn't mean that a child is incapable of doing good deeds as well (indeed, man,even an unbeliever,can do much good). However, because our nature is sinful, the good that we do is never truly good in God's sight, which is why He offers grace through Christ. In short, you need to distinguish between doing good and doing the kind of good to meet God's standards. I think that's where you're confused.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 "However, this doesn't mean that a child is incapable of doing good deeds as well"
Where did I say this in my video? Are you referring to my comment to 1689Baptist who said that you never have to teach a child to do bad? I simply questioned his statement, as it implies a significant inconsistency (i.e. if a child does bad he/she is bad, but if a child does good he/she isn't good). Additionally, I believe I used quotes around 'good'. Am I wrong?
crazypills2 1 year ago
@crazypills2
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You didn't say it in your video. I perceived from your comment that you saw a discrepancy between my comment that "Total Depravity doesn't teach that man is incapable of good" and Piper's comment that children do bad things because they are bad. You yourself asked "you would disagree with him (Piper)?" which lead me to assume that you saw an inconsistency or discrepancy between my comment and his. Did I misunderstand?
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 "...which lead me to assume that you saw an inconsistency or discrepancy between my comment and his. Did I misunderstand?"
No, you didn't misunderstand me. Teaching that we do bad things (like lie) because we are bad has consistency problems. It implies that the reverse is also true, we do good things (like tell the truth) because we are good. However, I don't think either Piper or you believe this.
crazypills2 1 year ago 3
@crazypills2
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"It implies that the reverse is also true, we do good things because we are good"
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The discrepancy is resolved by what I had previously noted, namely that there is a difference between doing good and doing the kind of good that God requires. Because we are indeed internally and inherently sinful, we cannot do good by God's standards. But we are more than capable of doing good by our own standards.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@morehate4uall Why are you so mad at Christians?
TheGenuineChristian 1 year ago
@TheGenuineChristian: Because you sincerely believe that our children need to be saved from our godless ways. Because the suggestion that unbelievers will burn forever is sickeningly offensive. Because religion permitted to run riot historically results in doctors and scientists being burned at the stake. Because the preacher in the video here is an extreme example of the infectious superstitious insanity that's plagued our species for millenia.
That's why.
JCLeSinge 1 year ago
@JCLeSinge
1) Children that cannot even comprehend the Bible have barely anything to be accountable for.
2) The language of "forever and ever" is used of being a long time or for a sure thing to happen. Consider Isa 34:10, "the smoke thereof shall go up for ever" this is ancient history, yet where is the smoke? Also, "one shall pass through it for ever and ever" and yet people pass through there today.
3) The same evil can be said of any religious group and non-religious groups.
TheGenuineChristian 1 year ago
@TheGenuineChristian:
1) According to some Christians; many (including our preacher in the video) would disagree with that perspective.
2) Apologetics. Are you saying the damned get forgiven eventually? That's not in the Bible, and there's still burning involved somewhere along the line.
3) That's why I said "religion", without specifying Christianity; the Bible just happens to be the most prevalent manual of superstition in our culture.
JCLeSinge 1 year ago
@JCLeSinge
1) I don't really care what John Piper has to say.
2) No, I am saying they will suffer and then be destroyed.
3) Okay, that works. Atheism has its evil done to humanity likewise.
TheGenuineChristian 1 year ago
@TheGenuineChristian:
1) Piper just happens to be here to point out. My point was that extending the doctrine of Original Sin to children is a major issue that Atheists find hateful in Christianity.
2) You're still saying that people go to hell to be tortured; again, this is something Atheists believe should not be taught to anyone, least of all kids.
3) Individual Atheists, sure; Atheism isn't an ideology though, it's just non-belief in God. A non-belief cannot motivate people to do harm.
JCLeSinge 1 year ago
@JCLeSinge
1) Given.
2) Of course, there is no way getting around it, especially if you're an atheist.
3) A non-belief cannot motivate people to do harm? LOL. Tell that to Ukrainian and Russian mafios. I think you need to do some exploring of the world, not just some random atheists you meet on the internet or in that tiny town of your's.
TheGenuineChristian 1 year ago
@TheGenuineChristian:
1) =)
2) Atheists don't accept the notion that the threat of torture is in any way a moral incentive to living a good life, let alone a happy one.
3) Organized criminals are motivated by greed; non-belief in God doesn't motivate Russian mobsters to crime; the Mafia are Catholics, belief in God doesn't stop them.
The same cannot be said for Jihadis, the Crusaders, the Inquisition, Thugi Fanatics... now name one Atheist who did something *because* they were an Atheist.
JCLeSinge 1 year ago
@JCLeSinge You obviously are completely ignorant of Ukrainian and Russian mafios. This is hilarious. They are able to shot your baby in the dead, cut off your wife's head in front of you right after they rape her, stab a pregnant woman in the stomache, etc, because they don't believe in God and thus no punishment for their crimes. I'm a Ukrainian, I know how it all works. You're stuck in fairyland.
TheGenuineChristian 1 year ago
@TheGenuineChristian: You asked "why are Atheists angry with Christianity"; I'm just telling you the answer.
You also missed my point: The Italian Mafia believe in God, they're just as violent and nasty as the Ukrainian and Russian mob. If they're able to get away with their crimes, it's not because of belief or non-belief in God. It's because they're *organised* crime; syndicates that protect their members from temporal punishment. God doesn't stop believers committing crime.
JCLeSinge 1 year ago
Hevenly father, please deliver me and all of the beautiful children from your followers. Amen.
oppressedinjc 1 year ago
Crazypills2, you are an awesome dad. You keep up the good work (and the wonderful videos!) I know we don't "rate" videos by stars anymore, but 5/5, man.
NaturalMiracleMan 1 year ago
John Piper is a grade-A nutball.
After having this kind of thinking ingrained in my mind for 18 years, I'm just starting to recover. Thanks for the video...
violentlygraceful 1 year ago 9
@ReligionFreeDeist "My wife loved the pictures of your boys, she wants kids sooo bad."
Well Jordan, I think you would make a wonderful father. Although they are the most wonderful things in my life, kids take up a lot of time. I fear your video output would decrease substantially :-)
crazypills2 1 year ago
It's almost physically distressing to watch that shit being preached.
I think (and hope) that sort of thing is rarely preached in the UK (ignoring Catholics).
Widgetas 1 year ago 5
@Widgetas: You'd be surprised. English Christians may be more low-key about it, but Evangelicals and Pentacostals in the UK regularly pray for Armaggedon. Seriously, they'll never admit it, but I know whereof I speak; this guy is extreme, but there is *at least* one fundie psychopath in every Church in England covertly spreading this fundamentalist crap, and virtually all *moderate* UK Christians are willing to consider it. They're here; all they lack is political power to make real noise.
JCLeSinge 1 year ago
@JCLeSinge Fook :(
Widgetas 1 year ago
@Widgetas: Seriously; the CofE is almost universally Moderate, but as soon as you step outside of "Regular Church", you're swimming with the Creationists. UK Christians bored of the dullness in CofE services go to the Evangelicals, but the Pentacostals are here and they're worse. If you're secure in your intellect and live in London, visit Kensington Temple in Notting Hill Gate, 2 minutes from the station. Anytime on a Sunday; they have four services a day, and they're phucking insane.
JCLeSinge 1 year ago
@JCLeSinge Aw man, I think I was happy living in ignorance :(
Widgetas 1 year ago
@Widgetas: Sorry. If it's any consolation, they're not a political force here in England. It's more that moderate Christians are susceptible to persuasion by Biblical "reasoning", so the minority Creationists sneak about English churches trying to pass on their brain-fever. There are hardly any of 'em in C-of-E churches, they're a sizeable minority among Evangelicals, and prevelant among Pentacostals.
More worrying is that ALL Muslims are Creationists by default, and most folk don't know this.
JCLeSinge 1 year ago
@Widgetas "It's almost physically distressing to watch that shit being preached."
When I first heard it, I got a little queezy. This was a good sign, as I grew up around this stuff. My conscience has been restored.
crazypills2 1 year ago
I think I've found the vestigial roots of my recent existential crisis.
JonathanClement140 1 year ago
Better kill those children before they sin even more
popgrafix 1 year ago
@popgrafix "Better kill those children before they sin even more"
I considering eating them. It doesn't make sense to throw away perfectly good meat :-)
crazypills2 1 year ago
@crazypills2: Eat them? Blasphemer! Don't you know that the smell of burning flesh is pleasing to the Lord, and that He is a jealous God who will NOT share his dinner? Send the kiddies back to Jehovah before they have a chance to displease Him; kill 'em with fire!
JCLeSinge 1 year ago
@crazypills2
What a modest proposal :)
mortuus8 1 year ago
@crazypills2 Marvelous suggestion
popgrafix 1 year ago
John Piper: Epic Fail
Crazypills' kids: Epic Win! :)
pjssjr 1 year ago 3
@pjssjr "John Piper: Epic Fail Crazypills' kids: Epic Win! :)"
Well thanks...I'll let the boys know :-)
crazypills2 1 year ago
@pjssjr Hell yeah! My daughter is 8 months old now, and she is the light of my life! She is not a bad person, she is amazing. Children are wonderful! That preacher really irritates me!
juggaloryan3 1 year ago
That kind of man is dangerous to us all. He should not be teaching anyone anything.
bodeezy 1 year ago
@bodeezy "He should not be teaching anyone anything."
Nope, but he has thousands of followers.
crazypills2 1 year ago
Perfect juxtaposition of good and evil; adorable kids/false teacher.
EPRVa62 1 year ago
@EPRVa62 "Perfect juxtaposition of good and evil; adorable kids/false teacher."
Thank you.
crazypills2 1 year ago
Great video!, disturbing but I am sure that was part of the intent. This age old technique to diminish one (at the core) so, they can be "transformed, molded and mind contolled". I am not a supporter of Hate Crime legislation. But if there was ever a "true crime of hate" ....here it is. What mentally and emotionally is worse than stamping out the individual in the name of sin? This is BS. This is real hate. Hate of humanity and intolerance for uniqueness outside of religion.
EuphoricImpact 1 year ago
@EuphoricImpact "What mentally and emotionally is worse than stamping out the individual in the name of sin? This is BS. This is real hate. Hate of humanity and intolerance for uniqueness outside of religion"
Very well said.
crazypills2 1 year ago
Are those your kids, Steve? If so, you've got a great family. I can tell you're a loving, protecting, and nurturing father because you'll never tell you're kids that they are inherantly bad people. Inherantly bad people would do horrible things out of despondancy or desperation, believing that they have no hope. And not that weird xtian "jesus hope" either. Great vid... :)
gustjorodedheo 1 year ago
@gustjorodedheo "Are those your kids, Steve? If so, you've got a great family."
Yes, they are my children. I am lucky to have them.
crazypills2 1 year ago
That was beautiful. I agree with the various comments regarding battered partner syndrome too. The bride of Christ is married to an abusive husband.
deconverts 1 year ago
@deconverts "The bride of Christ is married to an abusive husband."
Eloquently put. Thanks for the comment.
crazypills2 1 year ago
00:01-00:55: It's rare that I see or hear someone who, within one minute, can convince me that the most humane thing would be to take them outside, point out something nice for them to look at, and shoot 'em in the back of the head. Seriously. I don't often think that, and when I do, it usually takes a damn sight longer than one frikkin' minute to reach that conclusion. That preacher needs to be put down like a rabid dog; he's got brain fever.
JCLeSinge 1 year ago 4
@JCLeSinge That preacher is a horrible man, huh? I'm really conflicted, being a more gentle person, between killing him for the sake of humaninty, or just running him out of any civlilized country...
gustjorodedheo 1 year ago
@gustjorodedheo: That's why I said "humane"; running this guy out into the wilderness would condemn him to a lingering death. I don't want to torture the guy; I don't want him to suffer at all... but equally I don't want this psychopath to hurt any children, which he outright says he plans to do because he thinks this is "good". He's clearly beyond help, a danger to the most vulnerable innocents in society. So a bullet in the skull is the most humane compromise; put him out of our kids' misery.
JCLeSinge 1 year ago
Cute kid :)
MindAndMarzipan 1 year ago
@MindAndMarzipan "Cute kid :)"
Thanks...they take after their mother.
crazypills2 1 year ago
what kinda shit is this, that man is fucking up in his head, kids aren't bad, religion and ppl like you are, fuck you!!!!!!
AndyTheDevil 1 year ago
71 likes ... zero dislikes ... wow
g1code 1 year ago
Teaching children they are "bad" is real live child abuse. This is at the heart of Christianity. It is an evil system, period. Thanks for this video.
ozmoroid 1 year ago
@ozmoroid "Teaching children they are "bad" is real live child abuse. This is at the heart of Christianity"
It is. If there were no reason for us to be 'saved', then there would be no reason for Jesus. If there were no need for Jesus, then there would be no need for Christianity.
crazypills2 1 year ago
Manipulative, but true.
Daruqe 1 year ago
Send this to Dawkins
Mahoivlich 1 year ago
Feelings that went through my mind: shock, disgust, anger, disgust again, anger again!!! How am I supposed to RESPECT.. THIS?!?!?!?! How convincing a child that she's a pile of shit is gonna make her a better person? More productive? More intelligent? The guy on the podium is a criminal type, as far as I am, very much, sure of!!! I would not ever agree for that psychotic FUCK to ever open his fucked up mouth to any child!!! Any child, at all!!! This is fucking sick!!!!!!
bigsteakjoe 1 year ago 2
@bigsteakjoe "I would not ever agree for that psychotic FUCK to ever open his fucked up mouth to any child!!! Any child, at all!!! This is fucking sick!!!!!!"
I agree.
crazypills2 1 year ago
"Original Sin" is a pseudoproblem that was invented to give Christians the opportunity to sell their pesudosolution. That is, "Original Sin" is merely a manipulative psychological ploy. The People of the Old Testament invented the story of Eve eating the apple to explain why a loving god would create thorns and thistles, make man live by the sweat of his brow, and cause women to suffer great pain in childbirth. Then Christianity hijacked and distorted the story with a different stratagem in mind
unseenstrings 1 year ago
@unseenstrings: The OT story of Adam & Eve is an inversion of older myths; the Babylonians (the OT's main source for plagiarism) had myths that accord with virtually every other culture on Earth wherein the serpent represents wisdom, women are credited with intuition and men with reason, and eating the damn apple resulted in immortality. ONLY the OT reverses this; Google Joseph Campbell for detailed essays on the topic.
JCLeSinge 1 year ago
@JCLeSinge, I have the HB ed of The Power of Myth. My son said one of the things that turned him into an atheist was sitting with me in the evenings watching Cosmos and Bill Moyer's interviews, like the one with Campbell.
I'll agree The Bible has plenty of plagiarizing. But I suspect most of the plagiarizing was unconscious. The garden tale likely was one accumulated during oral tradition and eventually got written down. Associating satyrs with sin-burdened scapegoats may have been intentional.
unseenstrings 1 year ago
@unseenstrings: I saw "The Power of Myth"; it had a strong effect on me too. But I'm not convinced the Biblical plagiarism was unconscious; we're talking about a religion with a stated intent of opposing the gods and traditions of its rivals. Besides the frequent moral inversions of other cultures' myths, there's the repeated assertion that wisdom is foolishness, that the knowledge and beliefs of contemporary cultures are outright evil; political motives seem far more likely than mere accident.
JCLeSinge 1 year ago
@JCLeSinge, good point. Religion has been involved in politics right from the get-go. However, I would be skeptical about assuming ALL biblical stories that originated elsewhere & ended up in the Old Testament were consciously plagiarized. The agenda of the writers was obvious when they associated "sin-burdened" goats with the Greek God Pan. Christians came along later & drew pictures of their God Satan in the image of Pan (equivalent to the Roman God, Faunus). Other examples abound, as you say.
unseenstrings 1 year ago
@unseenstrings: I hadn't made the connection between Scapegoats and Pan; well spotted.
I think the unconscious plagiarism became more the case in the NT; in the OT, particularly in Genesis and the earlier books, the moral inversion is too clear and detailed to be accidental (or so I reckon).
But the NT was written mostly in Greek, and it's there that the concepts of Heaven & Hell suddenly come to mirror Elysium & Tartarus; largely, I think, as an accidental result of the linguistic shift.
JCLeSinge 1 year ago
If we were following a column of smoke by day and fire by night, leading us to a mountain trembling and shaking, I'm sure today we'd deduce it was a volcano. And when someone went up the mountain and came back down appearing all white, we'd deduce it was a layer of ash. A bush that burned but wasn't consumed was most likely carbonized by lava. The OT authors were good at taking stories of actual phenomena and events and injecting their myths into them. The human is easily befuddled and beguiled.
unseenstrings 1 year ago
@unseenstrings: Add to that the pre-existing belief that Yahweh was a Mountain God (AKA "El-Shadai", meaning either "mountain god" or "Most High"), and we have a rationale for the Hebrews heading to their Holy Mountain as indicated by the column of smoke, where they expected their God to be waiting.
But El-Shaddai was originally a Mesopotamian deity, before the Hebrews got hold of him and changed his name; that particular myth was plagiarism plus ad-hoc rationalizing of observed phenomena.
JCLeSinge 1 year ago
fuck religion
PdishmonkeyJJ 1 year ago
"Original sin" is one of the most fucked up ideas ever conceived.
MagnusIan 1 year ago
@MagnusIan Absolutely.
Ansonidak 1 year ago
@MagnusIan ' "Original sin" is one of the most fucked up ideas ever conceived.'
I couldn't agree more.
crazypills2 1 year ago
When I hear people like the guy at the beginning, I think of the line in dark knight:
What were you hoping ? That, deep down, everyone's as ugly as you?
MrLawrenceV 1 year ago
I am with you brother... any one who teaches this sick belief to anyone, especially children, is a depraved, self-loathing individual who should not be around children or adults.
Anyone who tries to tell this to my kids gets a punch in the throat.
johnycannuk 1 year ago
@johnycannuk "Anyone who tries to tell this to my kids gets a punch in the throat."
A well-deserved punch that would be.
crazypills2 1 year ago
That was one of the best videos I have seen in a very VERY long time. Absolutely astounding job. Cute kids too by the way.
damaxman 1 year ago
@damaxman "That was one of the best videos I have seen in a very VERY long time. Absolutely astounding job. Cute kids too by the way."
Thanks so much for the kind words. You made my day.
crazypills2 1 year ago
@crazypills2
As did you with mine, not only with the video, but the flattering gesture of replying to my comment as well. Sincerely, thank you. Keep up the great work.
damaxman 1 year ago
That was the most horrifying video I've ever seen, the evil just radiates from the screen. ;)
TheMudbrooker 1 year ago
@TheMudbrooker "That was the most horrifying video I've ever seen, the evil just radiates from the screen. ;)"
:-) If you think watching it was terrifying, how do you think I felt making it? I'll have night mares for a week.
crazypills2 1 year ago
Beautiful - just beautiful. I have told my Dad in recent years how much I hated being told as a kid that we are all 'filthy rags' in the eyes of god. Your kids are gorgeous.
AuntieDiluvian 1 year ago
@AuntieDiluvian "Your kids are gorgeous."
Thank auntie. Fortunately they take after their mother.
crazypills2 1 year ago
@ReligionFreeDeist Hope you have some. You'll be great parents :)
AuntieDiluvian 1 year ago
Maybe if we just start treating our children like children....
deepashtray 1 year ago 2
Jesus and God say all pre-born babies are evil.......PSALMS 51:5 "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."
Trust in God. He knows what hell a baby can cause due to it's wickedness. Beware the bad and evil babies!
JimmieHiggins 1 year ago
@JimmieHiggins "Beware the bad and evil babies!"
:-)
crazypills2 1 year ago
The subject of this video is a creep who wants to tell children they are inherently bad. I believe it is a suck mind that tries to convinces others that they are inherently bad; it produces dysfunctional people. But equally, telling kids that they are all fantastic, beautiful, smart, etc. doesn't produce adults with good self esteem, it produces narcissists.
I don't believe we are either inherently good or bad. All we are is inherently human.
Textra1 1 year ago 2
@Textra1
Correction - "...sick mind..."
Textra1 1 year ago
@Textra1 "I believe it is a suck mind that tries to convinces others that they are inherently bad; it produces dysfunctional people."
It's true. And, dysfunctional people produce other dysfunctional people. It's a cycle that has to be broken somewhere.
crazypills2 1 year ago
I can understand why Xians may assume we are born with a "sinful" nature. I once heard my granddaughter say, "I wish mommy were dead." I can't remember her exact age. I'm thinking 4 or 5. At about the same age, I was told I picked up a cocked BB gun and shot my younger brother; and the BB is still in his chin 59 years later. And I've seen kids barely more than mere babes lock on to someone and bite with all their might. Of course, we were ignorant little animals at the time. Sin is a delusion.
unseenstrings 1 year ago
Hmm.. so the question is are people inherantly bad or not? In what sense?
Yes - people inherantly selfish, proud, angry and prone to irrational and hurtful behaviour.
No - it's not bad, it's natural, just like the "good" impulses. When you understand you are an animal you understand the "sinful" part is just a survival trait, with good reason behind it, like an extra skill.
8DX 1 year ago
Behold the twisted mind of a religious zealot ...
detersgumig 1 year ago
thanks
FlowerClown 1 year ago
Remember, we are crap, crap, crap. But God love us, sort of. We have to show our love for this monster by, not thinking, self hate, hating those not like us, and following jerks like John Piper. OH HELL NO.
Very nice video.
dtm52 1 year ago
@dtm52 "Very nice video."
Thank you.
crazypills2 1 year ago
Funny, how you never need to teach a baby how to be deceitful or be selfish or throw a mad fit or take things that don't belong to them, no you must teach them NOT to do these things. It is in their nature to sin.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
1689Baptist 1 year ago
@1689Baptist babies also don't hate anyone because of the colour of their skin, the philosophy they choose to follow, or the person they love THOSE are the truly evil traits are very carefully taught.
nelliediddle 1 year ago
@nelliediddle That may be true but let me tell you what he will do. An 18 month old baby see your watch while you are holding him, he reaches for it, you tell him ,NO, he starts to cry and reaches for it again, you tell him, NO, he starts screaming and flinging his arms, at that moment if he had the strength of an 18yr old man he would kill you where you stand and take the watch anyway.
You need to understand the wickedness of man.
1689Baptist 1 year ago
@1689Baptist hunny chile I have two lovely children one of whom is possibly the most empathetic individuals I have ever met. Neither of them have any "religious" affiliation. I also worked for 20 years in the school system. The really awful kids the one who deliberately hurt people & I mean make a conscience effort to cause pain to another have in the large part been from "nice religious families" you can quote bible verse to me all day your are still full of sheit
nelliediddle 1 year ago 2
@nelliediddle I'm with you. The most hateful, intolerant and violent people I've ever known, have invariably been entrenched in some kind of dogmatic religious mindset, and often acting on its behalf. Of course, that is only my personal experience...
Now, to the issue of mr. Baptist:
"Psalm 127:3 Behold, children are a gift of the LORD; The fruit of the womb is a reward."
Wow - this god guy really is a sadist. He wants us to have a nice, evil baby, as a reward!?!?
B9Sign 1 year ago
@B9Sign "Psalm 127:3 Behold, children are a gift of the LORD; The fruit of the womb is a reward." This in no way contradicts the doctrine of total depravity.
I still believe children are a gift from God, but I in noway pretend that they don't need correction and their sinful nature dealt with.
1689Baptist 1 year ago
@1689Baptist Then, you need some serious counseling.
B9Sign 1 year ago
@B9Sign Ah! so you are one of those that think it is cute to see a kid lay on the floor at Walmart kicking and screaming.
"OH! he is just expressing himself!" LOLOLOLOL
1689Baptist 1 year ago
@1689Baptist Ah! So, you are one of those sheep with the mental acuity of a citrus fruit. Thanks for clearing that up - it explains the content of most of your comments...
B9Sign 1 year ago
@B9Sign No answer, so attack the messenger. LOL That'll get um.
1689Baptist 1 year ago
@1689Baptist Oh, you have three.
I feel for them. I really do.
Widgetas 1 year ago
@1689Baptist There's more than two ways to raise a child: The options are not simply 1) raise in the name of the LOOORRRD to cleanse children of their sinful nature or 2) let them run riot.
I was raised secular and never had a religion forced on me. Ask anyone you want who saw me and my sister when we were growing up and ask how we used to behave. You won't get the answer you hope you will - Craps all over your "sin" argument somewhat.
Have you raised kids, btw?
Widgetas 1 year ago
@nelliediddle I have three grown children also so I know what I am talking about. Thankfully all three love the Lord Jesus Christ, but that does not mean they never displayed their sinful nature.
1689Baptist 1 year ago
@1689Baptist you also have to teach children to speak, how to use the toilet , how to eat food with their mouth closed... it's all about socialization and has NOTHING to do with being sinful...let me ask you this do you believe dogs have souls and go to live with God and Jesus in heaven when they die if they've been good little doggies?
nelliediddle 1 year ago
@nelliediddle There you go, as you said you have to teach kids HOW to do these things. But when it comes to sin we don't have to teach them HOW we have to teach them NOT to sin.
No, little doggies don't have a soul and go to doggy heaven. LOL
1689Baptist 1 year ago
@1689Baptist well no that's not what I said...but if doggies don't have should why teach them not to bite? OBVIOUSLY by your logic says we stop biting because it's sinful... and that's the only reason to teach anything, and if doggies don't have souls it doesn't matter if they bite. buh bye thanks for playing it's been fun
nelliediddle 1 year ago
@1689Baptist
Yep, great, base the worth of humanity on a baby with ~75% of the brain volume of an adult, let alone the psychological and emotional development.
Babies are also known to share and show affection. But somehow that doesn't mean humanity is inherently good too?
WavegirlThinks 1 year ago 2
@WavegirlThinks
Nicely said Wavegirl, nicely said.
Textra1 1 year ago
@WavegirlThinks That is the whole point, babies are not able to way the consequences of there action, so the illustration I gave shows the unrestrained wickedness of man. An 18 yr old man has the ability to way the consequences of killing for a watch.
1689Baptist 1 year ago
@1689Baptist
You mean "weigh"? Assuming your proposition that babies illustrate the unrestrained character of humanity, then it is just as logical to conclude that humans are inherently 'good' due to their expression of positive attributes like sharing.
However, your proposition is flawed, as babies are not actually fully developed people. i.e. are not fully representative of the character or psychology of an adult.
WavegirlThinks 1 year ago
@WavegirlThinks Yes I did mean "weigh" I didn't catch that.
The problem is the bible teaches that the "good" that man does (babies included) is only good on a human level but it is still sin and wicked before God.
1689Baptist 1 year ago
@1689Baptist
So all the human-level 'good' Jesus supposedly did was sinful? Because I thought the whole point was that he had no sins (other than original sin).
Declaring that even the good people do is bad makes your whole argument (that babies display our inherent wickedness) void. You could just point to an aid worker helping dying children and shout "SIN".
It’s a very convenient way to disregard any good people display. It’s also circular reasoning.
WavegirlThinks 1 year ago
@WavegirlThinks Pro 21:4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin. See even a "good" thing like plowing a field to raise a crop corn is sin to a man that is still in his sinful nature, b/c he dies not plow it for the glory of God. So, the aid worker helping dying children if not saved by grace through faith does not help children for the glory of God therefore it is sin.
Jesus was born perfect, with no sin nature, His human-level good was not sin.
1689Baptist 1 year ago
@1689Baptist
Jesus committed no sins but was still marked by Original sin. Therefore he could not be perfect and did have sin in his nature.
The Bible declares everything we do as wicked, so why do you feel the need to point out negative traits humanity displays as proof?
It also strikes me as hypocritical that god can do nice things to us because he loves us, and it'll be a good act, but if we do something nice because we love 'his creations' too, it’s bad.
Also, still circular.
WavegirlThinks 1 year ago
@WavegirlThinks (Jesus committed no sins but was still marked by Original sin. Therefore he could not be perfect and did have sin in his nature.) This is wrong, Jesus had NO original, sin everything he did was GOOD, pure, and perfect, He lived life in perfect obedience to His Father, the way we were supposed to but cannot b/c of sin. See this is how we get to heaven, those that believe in Jesus get His perfect Life imputed to them, so we go to heaven on His merit, even with our demerit.
1689Baptist 1 year ago
@1689Baptist
The denomination I was raised in believed Jesus had original sin through Mary. They believed his purpose was to experience and overcome man’s fallen nature and thus save us all. Different denominations have different opinions on that matter.
Also, several people other than Jesus were reputedly completely obedient to god i.e. Job (Job 1:1-8), Zacharias and his wife Elisabeth (Luke 1:5-6).
Cont...
WavegirlThinks 1 year ago
@WavegirlThinks (. Different denominations have different opinions on that matter.)
Yes, and they are wrong.
Also, Job nor any one else in the Bible was completely obedient to God.
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
1689Baptist 1 year ago
@1689Baptist Cont...
Regardless, your argument was that the Bible telling us that we are wicked is true because babies display the inherent wickedness of man through their negative actions. I pointed out that babies show positive actions too and that infants cannot be representative of adult psychology anyway.
You invoked the bible to say that the good we do is wicked. But first you need to demonstrate the bible is true... which is what you were using babies for in the first place.
Circles!
WavegirlThinks 1 year ago
@WavegirlThinks I don't need to demonstrate the Bible is true, b/c the argument is whether John Piper is preaching a false view of Christianity, I am proving by the Bible he is not. Whether you believe the Bible is true is between you and God, if you don't believe in God then I guess you don't have anything to worry about. Also, my baby argument is just as sound as crazypills2 who argued by showing cute baby pictures.
1689Baptist 1 year ago
@1689Baptist Cont...
You: God says we are wicked.
Me: We are also good.
You: Even our good is wicked.
Me: Why is our good wicked?
You: God says we are wicked.
WavegirlThinks 1 year ago