I was wrong I'll admit it, honestly though it's pretty cool to proven wrong with creditable evidence rather that stupid idiots with a tenous grasp on history
@chantervz The Saturn rocket is a direct engineering descendent of the German series. "Truth" matters chantervz, Without it, progress is VERY difficult. Excessive jingoism, and Americans claiming credit where they do not deserve for propaganda reasons not only leaves Americans embarrassed, but not able to react to the true facts of the challenges they face.
2. Had the US continued to NOT (finally) accept that the von Braun's V-2 was the first rocket to hit space (104 km alittude) and quickly activated his team when the Vanguard failed, the Russians would have have been the first to land Man on the moon. Accepting von Braun and using German experience and knowledge took 10-12 years off the time for the US to catch up with the Germans in Russia. The Germans brought the A-9 to A-12 already advanced engineered designs with them!.
1. Had the U.S. not ignored German jet fighter advancements, they would not have been faced in Korea with the German-designed Mig 15 (superior to the LATER hastily put together F-86). Already In 1946 the Russians flew the Mig-9, built off the German drawings and flown with the BMW jet engines.
@chantervz Actually chantervz, it DOES matter. The whole of scientific advancement is a methodical matter of learning, one to the next, like Emilie-du-Chatelet (Versailles brilliant mistress to Einstein) or Leibnitz to Newton.To "falsify" the record -- which is to deliberately ignore the achievements of another -- is to deliberately derail the progress of man for "prestige" and "ingoistic" reasons. For examile, ...
Actually, Jack Northrop built his first flying wing, the Avion Model 1 in 1928. Hey, if you all are seriously into flying wings, I would highly recomment the book "Jack Northrop and the Flying Wing: The Real Story Behind the Stealth Bomber" by Ted Coleman. It's rare and out of print, so a large library would be the best place to look. I'm lucky enough to own a copy.
@Freesoler01 All aircraft are "flying wings". The difference here is the removal of drag from the tail rudder and ailerons. Finally, he gave up and tried again in 1937/1938, but the models did not survive the wind tunnel testing and he ran out of money. His later military contract came with the information on the Horton efforts and he did an excellent job of picking up the threads with the Ni-M In parallel the Horton Gotha 229 was flown with dual jets in very late 1944..
Well finally after 40 years with the B-2 the Air Force brass finally decided maybe having a radar evading bomber was a good idea. They could have bought the stealthy B-35/49 in 1948 but were too stupid to realize what an advantage evading radar was.
@USAmerican100 Actually, they could have BOUGHT it as early as 1945! The Gotha company had been commissioned to build 20 Hortons for the Luftwaffe. It had been tested at high speed, with the newest engine in testing with enough clout to get it supersonic. Why didn't they? Some jackass thought the "wooden" skin was retrograde rather than advanced anti-radar and didn't know what they were looking at!! The German BMW jets shifted to production in Switzerland and then on to France.
Everything you say is correct but the metal Northrop wings were just as stealthy as the Horton wood wings, Discovery Channel had Northrop build and test a wooden Horton wing, the exposed Horton engines raised the RCS while the Northrop wings had buried engines. I suppose a wooden or RAM coated Northrop wing would have a really low RCS but as we know the Air Force was too stupid to understand it.
@USAmerican100 You know the old saying, "necessity is the mother of ..." While the "tailless wing wasn't a necessity, just a compellingly good idea, the matter of the radar footprint was. The Horton was actually designed to be have a low radar signature because it was to go at the radar sites on the english south coast that were giving so much warning of Luftwaffe raids. While the Hortons put it together (with the BMW jets) Northrup did a very good job to get it going as he did.
@USAmerican100 A friend (old man now) who worked on the F-15 fuselage project told me many years ago that the Germans worked out the math on wing lift body shape and control surfaces with six secret equations that years later (1991) were shown on a placard in the air and space museum in Wasnington. They showed up in the specs on the captured German engineering. Northrup didn't have that so he to work it up with "trial and error" which is much more difficult. Amazing that he managed it without.
That's really interesting about the equations, I will have to check it out. Northrop had Theodore Von Karmen, supposedly the smartest aerodynamicist in the USA as a consultant on the wing project, I wonder why he didn't come up with these equations also. Maybe too busy with too much work.
@USAmerican100 I'm not expert enough to say more, but in my own field (econometrics) the mathematical methods weren't even available in those days to develop solutions for the analytical challenges. Pure mathematics has come a long way since and is now buried in computer assisted design (CAD) to make it a mouse click. In those days it was still a stone-age even before electronic calculators so I'm impressed at what these people accomplished.
Not stolen.... gained from gernany.. which had just lost a war... and as such. had its technnology givem away. wouldn´t call that "stealing.."
by the way.. had germany won the war we´d all be flying in thase "craps" around the world by now. and. the first fly by wire would be invented in 1950 probably.
@Tu49 That is factually incorrect. Northrup's 1929 prototype was not "tailless" (photos exist on Google) and his next effort in 1937/1938 did not go past windtunnel tests. The design failed and he ran out of money. From me, NO disrespect for making good tries on a complicated set of problems. The Hortons succeeded in developing the Ho I gliders engineered with flight stability, in the early 30'3, and Ho II and III with power. The National Air and Space Museum has archive photos films, tapes.
@Tu49 Hanna Reitch flight-tested the powered Ho II. (built 1934). Horton III made it to 26,000 feet in 1938. "it possesses great static longitudinal stability and complete safety in relation to the spin." At that point Northrup had not been given the contract. The next models were bigger (79 foot wingspan) and ended with the Ho IX going into production As Horton Gotha 229 with dual BMW jets. First Powered wing was Ho II with Hirth HM 60 HP. No reputable authority disagrees with that timeline.
@kriegmeister3000 alot of the things Americans have were not invented by Them lol they were just copied reverse enginered and improved lol so I wouldent call that the greatest of achievements besides there the only people that need weapons to defend themselves anyway cause nobody in the world likes them and its not cause they have more then other countries its cause there rude arrogant trouble makers that have there nose up everyones ass oh and they dont like anyone accept there own
Not hardly, the small wings were built before the war, the big wings during the war to bomb Germany in case England or Russia fell. The B-35 could carry 5 tons of bombs from the US to Germany and back.
@USAmerican100 If an 80 foot wingspan is "big" enough -- as fighters go -- then the "big wings" were production-built during the War in the form of the Horton Gotha 229 to bomb the British radar sites. What other "big wings" (tailless aircraft) were being built during the war?
@psneves You must be an American. The correct words are "reverse engineered", but the patents were definitely 'STOLEN', and even more foolishly, the US decided NOT to pick up the Horton's and use their services as they did with von Braun.
calling the one-wing a creation of jack northropp is pretty nasty actually for something he could not even build having the construction plans that the US Army stole as well as the latest prototype.
First of all it was a stolen concept that was not even whilst having the constructions plans done well. the YB series were stopped due to being not stable and the whole piece of crap that was done by northropp could be only done with a fly-by-wire system in the 80's with the b-series and lockheeds f117. there is nothing to tribute about a stolen development and then not even being able to do it well. Even the RC Models fly well. And Prof. Horten said it himself: "they just did not understand it"
Um.....dude okay let me explain something to you, the concept of a flying wing was an idea not solely restricted to two brothers in Germany, not saying anything bad about the horten brothers. Jack Northrop had developed the idea of a flying wing long before the hortens had, to give an example of this: N-1M and the N-9M which spwaned the XB-35 and the YB-49
it even states on wikipedia that these developed onewings you mention were all unstable. the concept goes even beyond the hortens and the hortens had theirs flying in the early 30's. the dates to tell. look it up especially on wiki and you may want to think about the comment you put up. the biggest piss i have is about this industry that blocks us worldwide from technical developments that would lead to less polution faster transports etc because they wanna sell their shit to us.
@Tu49 Where do you get the ridiculous idea that Northrup had "developed the idea of a flying wing long before the Horton's had? What's more the first powered wing flight (the Ho II model AFTER experimental flights was flown by Hanna Reitsch for testing for the Luftwaffe in 1938, long before the N-1M. Get your fact straight.
I thought of an interesting question. I like the flying wing design myself, so I'm not trying to detract from it. But here is my question; why has no other major nation that makes aircraft -Russia, China, France, etc.- ever made their own version of the flying wing? If it is so great -and I think it is- why are there no imitators?
Funny you were wondering that. The flying wing concept originated from Nazi Germany, so were allot of other concepts that were then taken and Americanized. Sad, but true, we owe allot to Ze Germans!! Of course that doesn't quite answer your question, but it makes you wonder if there were other "Nations" that did it but was classified!!
@braindead78 Actually the flying wing concept did NOT orginate in Nazi Germany. That era started 1933, the Hortons and others were already working on it in the 1920's, so Weimar Germany.
@braindead78 I think that any kid who folded a piece of paper had the idea? Anyway if you look at the drawings Otto Lilienthal made you will find it there. The first design actually build was by Alexander Lippisch who was working for Zeppelin at the time. Gottlob Espenlaub actually built it in 1921 as the Lippisch-Espenlaub E-2 glider. He did MANY talless designs and ended up designing the famous ME-163 rocket plane.
@braindead78 As a kid I lived just after the war in officer's mess rubble of the destroyed Luftwaffe base (Bad Zwischenahn) which is the only airfeld from which ME-163 was put into service. I actually played in the two remaining destroyed Me-163 carcasses that were trapped in and under the rubble, with no idea of their significance until decades later. I ran across pictures of the airbase before it was destroyed with Me-163's in front of the wrecked building that we had lived in. Small world.
@braindead78 Forgot to mention that not only did Alexander Lippisch design the first tailless wings as gliders while at Zeppelin he also designed the first ever tailless craft to have powered flight, the "delta 1" in 1931. He's the man who got the Hortens started.
I wanted to copy your statement and paste it on another site
not trying to move in. You are right though. This was a German invention as many other inventions were and the allies stole them after the war and told the world "look what we have"
"The Horten Brothers flying wing bomber. It was intended to be a '1000' bomber, ie, it was supposed to fly at 1,000kph for up to 1,000kms, carrying up to 1,000kgs of bombs. The wing skins were made of a wood-carbon powder composite that absorbed radar pulses, so it would have been largely invisible on radar. Quite a project, but the war ended before it was fully developed."
"The Horten Brothers flying wing bomber. It was intended to be a '1000' bomber, ie, it was supposed to fly at 1,000kph for up to 1,000kms, carrying up to 1,000kgs of bombs. The wing skins were made of a wood-carbon powder composite that absorbed radar pulses, so it would have been largely invisible on radar. Quite a project, but the war ended before it was fully developed."
I was wrong I'll admit it, honestly though it's pretty cool to proven wrong with creditable evidence rather that stupid idiots with a tenous grasp on history
Tu49 7 months ago
Jack Northrop is one of my heros :)
aandc2005 8 months ago
@chantervz The Saturn rocket is a direct engineering descendent of the German series. "Truth" matters chantervz, Without it, progress is VERY difficult. Excessive jingoism, and Americans claiming credit where they do not deserve for propaganda reasons not only leaves Americans embarrassed, but not able to react to the true facts of the challenges they face.
historatia 9 months ago
@chantervz
2. Had the US continued to NOT (finally) accept that the von Braun's V-2 was the first rocket to hit space (104 km alittude) and quickly activated his team when the Vanguard failed, the Russians would have have been the first to land Man on the moon. Accepting von Braun and using German experience and knowledge took 10-12 years off the time for the US to catch up with the Germans in Russia. The Germans brought the A-9 to A-12 already advanced engineered designs with them!.
historatia 9 months ago
@chantervz
1. Had the U.S. not ignored German jet fighter advancements, they would not have been faced in Korea with the German-designed Mig 15 (superior to the LATER hastily put together F-86). Already In 1946 the Russians flew the Mig-9, built off the German drawings and flown with the BMW jet engines.
historatia 9 months ago
@chantervz Actually chantervz, it DOES matter. The whole of scientific advancement is a methodical matter of learning, one to the next, like Emilie-du-Chatelet (Versailles brilliant mistress to Einstein) or Leibnitz to Newton.To "falsify" the record -- which is to deliberately ignore the achievements of another -- is to deliberately derail the progress of man for "prestige" and "ingoistic" reasons. For examile, ...
historatia 9 months ago
Actually, Jack Northrop built his first flying wing, the Avion Model 1 in 1928. Hey, if you all are seriously into flying wings, I would highly recomment the book "Jack Northrop and the Flying Wing: The Real Story Behind the Stealth Bomber" by Ted Coleman. It's rare and out of print, so a large library would be the best place to look. I'm lucky enough to own a copy.
Freesoler01 1 year ago
@Freesoler01 All aircraft are "flying wings". The difference here is the removal of drag from the tail rudder and ailerons. Finally, he gave up and tried again in 1937/1938, but the models did not survive the wind tunnel testing and he ran out of money. His later military contract came with the information on the Horton efforts and he did an excellent job of picking up the threads with the Ni-M In parallel the Horton Gotha 229 was flown with dual jets in very late 1944..
historatia 9 months ago
@chantervz FINALLY SOME SENSEE
Tu49 1 year ago
Serbian heroes destroyed f-117 and Americans in a show say that he fell because of failure hahaha
chava85bl 1 year ago
Well finally after 40 years with the B-2 the Air Force brass finally decided maybe having a radar evading bomber was a good idea. They could have bought the stealthy B-35/49 in 1948 but were too stupid to realize what an advantage evading radar was.
USAmerican100 2 years ago
@USAmerican100 Actually, they could have BOUGHT it as early as 1945! The Gotha company had been commissioned to build 20 Hortons for the Luftwaffe. It had been tested at high speed, with the newest engine in testing with enough clout to get it supersonic. Why didn't they? Some jackass thought the "wooden" skin was retrograde rather than advanced anti-radar and didn't know what they were looking at!! The German BMW jets shifted to production in Switzerland and then on to France.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia
Everything you say is correct but the metal Northrop wings were just as stealthy as the Horton wood wings, Discovery Channel had Northrop build and test a wooden Horton wing, the exposed Horton engines raised the RCS while the Northrop wings had buried engines. I suppose a wooden or RAM coated Northrop wing would have a really low RCS but as we know the Air Force was too stupid to understand it.
USAmerican100 1 year ago
@USAmerican100 You know the old saying, "necessity is the mother of ..." While the "tailless wing wasn't a necessity, just a compellingly good idea, the matter of the radar footprint was. The Horton was actually designed to be have a low radar signature because it was to go at the radar sites on the english south coast that were giving so much warning of Luftwaffe raids. While the Hortons put it together (with the BMW jets) Northrup did a very good job to get it going as he did.
historatia 1 year ago
@USAmerican100 A friend (old man now) who worked on the F-15 fuselage project told me many years ago that the Germans worked out the math on wing lift body shape and control surfaces with six secret equations that years later (1991) were shown on a placard in the air and space museum in Wasnington. They showed up in the specs on the captured German engineering. Northrup didn't have that so he to work it up with "trial and error" which is much more difficult. Amazing that he managed it without.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia
That's really interesting about the equations, I will have to check it out. Northrop had Theodore Von Karmen, supposedly the smartest aerodynamicist in the USA as a consultant on the wing project, I wonder why he didn't come up with these equations also. Maybe too busy with too much work.
USAmerican100 1 year ago
@USAmerican100 I'm not expert enough to say more, but in my own field (econometrics) the mathematical methods weren't even available in those days to develop solutions for the analytical challenges. Pure mathematics has come a long way since and is now buried in computer assisted design (CAD) to make it a mouse click. In those days it was still a stone-age even before electronic calculators so I'm impressed at what these people accomplished.
historatia 1 year ago
Go Phillies
Pgabs123 2 years ago
the onewings and a lot of other developments would lead to a lot more efficient transports.
illusional1 2 years ago
Not stolen.... gained from gernany.. which had just lost a war... and as such. had its technnology givem away. wouldn´t call that "stealing.."
by the way.. had germany won the war we´d all be flying in thase "craps" around the world by now. and. the first fly by wire would be invented in 1950 probably.
psneves 2 years ago
F-16 was the first to have fly by wire, in the 80's,
and dont diss german designes
Tu49 2 years ago
It was stolen like eveything else. Next you'll say that it fell into the hands of.
kriegmeister3000 2 years ago
look it up, the N-1M was made before the horten flyer first flew, either before it flew or during the same time
Tu49 2 years ago
At least your not a Cubs fan
kriegmeister3000 2 years ago
@Tu49 That is factually incorrect. Northrup's 1929 prototype was not "tailless" (photos exist on Google) and his next effort in 1937/1938 did not go past windtunnel tests. The design failed and he ran out of money. From me, NO disrespect for making good tries on a complicated set of problems. The Hortons succeeded in developing the Ho I gliders engineered with flight stability, in the early 30'3, and Ho II and III with power. The National Air and Space Museum has archive photos films, tapes.
historatia 9 months ago
@Tu49 Hanna Reitch flight-tested the powered Ho II. (built 1934). Horton III made it to 26,000 feet in 1938. "it possesses great static longitudinal stability and complete safety in relation to the spin." At that point Northrup had not been given the contract. The next models were bigger (79 foot wingspan) and ended with the Ho IX going into production As Horton Gotha 229 with dual BMW jets. First Powered wing was Ho II with Hirth HM 60 HP. No reputable authority disagrees with that timeline.
historatia 9 months ago
@Tu49 Uttely and completely false claim by Tu49.
historatia 9 months ago
@Tu49
Actually your are incorrect, the N1M first flew in 1940.
The first Horten flying wing flew in 1933, in 1937 the Horten had build and flown the twin-engined Ho-V flying wing.
Dreachon 7 months ago
@kriegmeister3000 alot of the things Americans have were not invented by Them lol they were just copied reverse enginered and improved lol so I wouldent call that the greatest of achievements besides there the only people that need weapons to defend themselves anyway cause nobody in the world likes them and its not cause they have more then other countries its cause there rude arrogant trouble makers that have there nose up everyones ass oh and they dont like anyone accept there own
StiTinkBig 1 year ago
Not hardly, the small wings were built before the war, the big wings during the war to bomb Germany in case England or Russia fell. The B-35 could carry 5 tons of bombs from the US to Germany and back.
USAmerican100 2 years ago
@USAmerican100 If an 80 foot wingspan is "big" enough -- as fighters go -- then the "big wings" were production-built during the War in the form of the Horton Gotha 229 to bomb the British radar sites. What other "big wings" (tailless aircraft) were being built during the war?
historatia 9 months ago
@psneves You must be an American. The correct words are "reverse engineered", but the patents were definitely 'STOLEN', and even more foolishly, the US decided NOT to pick up the Horton's and use their services as they did with von Braun.
historatia 9 months ago
calling the one-wing a creation of jack northropp is pretty nasty actually for something he could not even build having the construction plans that the US Army stole as well as the latest prototype.
illusional1 2 years ago
First of all it was a stolen concept that was not even whilst having the constructions plans done well. the YB series were stopped due to being not stable and the whole piece of crap that was done by northropp could be only done with a fly-by-wire system in the 80's with the b-series and lockheeds f117. there is nothing to tribute about a stolen development and then not even being able to do it well. Even the RC Models fly well. And Prof. Horten said it himself: "they just did not understand it"
illusional1 2 years ago
Um.....dude okay let me explain something to you, the concept of a flying wing was an idea not solely restricted to two brothers in Germany, not saying anything bad about the horten brothers. Jack Northrop had developed the idea of a flying wing long before the hortens had, to give an example of this: N-1M and the N-9M which spwaned the XB-35 and the YB-49
Tu49 2 years ago
it even states on wikipedia that these developed onewings you mention were all unstable. the concept goes even beyond the hortens and the hortens had theirs flying in the early 30's. the dates to tell. look it up especially on wiki and you may want to think about the comment you put up. the biggest piss i have is about this industry that blocks us worldwide from technical developments that would lead to less polution faster transports etc because they wanna sell their shit to us.
illusional1 2 years ago
@Tu49 Where do you get the ridiculous idea that Northrup had "developed the idea of a flying wing long before the Horton's had? What's more the first powered wing flight (the Ho II model AFTER experimental flights was flown by Hanna Reitsch for testing for the Luftwaffe in 1938, long before the N-1M. Get your fact straight.
historatia 9 months ago
ALL ABOUT STEALTH
snoop8492 2 years ago
I MISS THE YF-23 BLACKWIDO II
snoop8492 2 years ago
What are the two planes in the background at 3:21?
MrNick2D 2 years ago
F-117 nighthawks
Tu49 2 years ago
K thank you.
MrNick2D 2 years ago
Why does 0:25 look like a classic UFO shape?
JessThePest 3 years ago
its a flying wing dumbass
Tu49 2 years ago
just as clever, simple and complicated like boomerang , simply awesome !
tamaxandru 3 years ago
at 3:39 what if a bird flew into one of the bombs that would set off the other bombs and no bombs at all and a waste of money
FROWNIEFACE 3 years ago
that N9M is cool. I want one
LoudS1l3nc3 3 years ago
me 2
CCMrJones 3 years ago
lol imaging f-22's flying support for f-117 and b-2's? lol thats creeping death... from above
delsol55 3 years ago 2
maybe they couldn't see the potential.. or just didn't think of it lol
delsol55 3 years ago
I thought of an interesting question. I like the flying wing design myself, so I'm not trying to detract from it. But here is my question; why has no other major nation that makes aircraft -Russia, China, France, etc.- ever made their own version of the flying wing? If it is so great -and I think it is- why are there no imitators?
angelsbookoflove 3 years ago
Funny you were wondering that. The flying wing concept originated from Nazi Germany, so were allot of other concepts that were then taken and Americanized. Sad, but true, we owe allot to Ze Germans!! Of course that doesn't quite answer your question, but it makes you wonder if there were other "Nations" that did it but was classified!!
braindead78 3 years ago
@braindead78 Actually the flying wing concept did NOT orginate in Nazi Germany. That era started 1933, the Hortons and others were already working on it in the 1920's, so Weimar Germany.
historatia 9 months ago
@historatia True, it might have been conceptualized before Nazi Germany, but when did it come to light? and how was it funded?
braindead78 9 months ago
@braindead78 I think that any kid who folded a piece of paper had the idea? Anyway if you look at the drawings Otto Lilienthal made you will find it there. The first design actually build was by Alexander Lippisch who was working for Zeppelin at the time. Gottlob Espenlaub actually built it in 1921 as the Lippisch-Espenlaub E-2 glider. He did MANY talless designs and ended up designing the famous ME-163 rocket plane.
historatia 9 months ago
@braindead78 As a kid I lived just after the war in officer's mess rubble of the destroyed Luftwaffe base (Bad Zwischenahn) which is the only airfeld from which ME-163 was put into service. I actually played in the two remaining destroyed Me-163 carcasses that were trapped in and under the rubble, with no idea of their significance until decades later. I ran across pictures of the airbase before it was destroyed with Me-163's in front of the wrecked building that we had lived in. Small world.
historatia 9 months ago
@braindead78 Forgot to mention that not only did Alexander Lippisch design the first tailless wings as gliders while at Zeppelin he also designed the first ever tailless craft to have powered flight, the "delta 1" in 1931. He's the man who got the Hortens started.
historatia 9 months ago
-_-
GalmTeamLeader 3 years ago
what song??
skucandy 4 years ago
Its sad, one b2 spirit crashd:(
miniheli 4 years ago
Northrop = Horten? Ja wirklich!
Lud0665 4 years ago
sorry volodyyy
I wanted to copy your statement and paste it on another site
not trying to move in. You are right though. This was a German invention as many other inventions were and the allies stole them after the war and told the world "look what we have"
thanks again
HermanDGerman 4 years ago
"The Horten Brothers flying wing bomber. It was intended to be a '1000' bomber, ie, it was supposed to fly at 1,000kph for up to 1,000kms, carrying up to 1,000kgs of bombs. The wing skins were made of a wood-carbon powder composite that absorbed radar pulses, so it would have been largely invisible on radar. Quite a project, but the war ended before it was fully developed."
HermanDGerman 4 years ago 2
"The Horten Brothers flying wing bomber. It was intended to be a '1000' bomber, ie, it was supposed to fly at 1,000kph for up to 1,000kms, carrying up to 1,000kgs of bombs. The wing skins were made of a wood-carbon powder composite that absorbed radar pulses, so it would have been largely invisible on radar. Quite a project, but the war ended before it was fully developed."
volodyyy 4 years ago 2
Awesome video!!!
tracyavaughan 4 years ago
Great tribute to a great man who designed fantastic planes.
doctommy 4 years ago