Steampunk Anime - Part IV

[solidsnake2234]

Well you do see a bit of WWII in Matsumoto's GE999. Two episodes, one being a reference to the Battle of El Alamein (1942), and the other was a flashback from the Buddhist Monk showing him as a US Infantryman during the Battle of the Bulge (1944)

[QwoPhasaArius]

I seem to be having a hard time getting my point across. Apologies, my communication skills are obviously lacking, so we can just leave it there.

[QwoPhasaArius]

We can point the fingers at the extremists all we like, but THAT'S not going to change anything. However, WE can! But look at what we're doing instead! It's not a case of who's worse, or who's more at fault, don't misunderstand me.

[QwoPhasaArius]

We're in in a great position of power, but we only abuse it. As the voice of supposed reason and intelligence, I have every reason to be more critical of us. And I say "we" and "us" because every nation in the west has a role to play; that's the people. Everyone is responsible in part.

[QwoPhasaArius]

This whole thing was a disaster. What have they accomplished? We're not some Western saviors coming to the rescue, "cleansing" out all the "evil". Are you saying it's the thought that counts? We meant good? It's inexcusable. One problem has just been replaced with another, and we're the cause this time.

[CoryTheRaven]

@QwoPhasaArius "Are you saying it's the thought that counts? We meant good?"

That's not what I said. You're still reading the situation in partisan terms where you're either for America or for the terrorists, or in this case, being anti-America by downplaying the threat of terrorism.

What I said is that a pacifist position with integrity is critical of BOTH. It recognizes and condemns BOTH war and terrorism without downplaying the horror of either.

[QwoPhasaArius]

@CoryTheRaven I do recognise both. I also recognise that war is not the solution to terrorism, they actually both go hand-in-hand. Other moves need to be employed to correct such horrendous societies, and no, killing people doesn't do that I'm afraid. We have the potential to play a large part in leading to the solution, but we're doing the exact opposite.

[QwoPhasaArius]

And don't even get me STARTED on god damn Obama and his "good-doings". Pulling out the army MY ASS. Nobel peace price? WHAT. THE. HELL. Who's next? The devil?

[QwoPhasaArius]

The whole fucking world is just sitting there watching this "war on terror" take place. We're sitting through one of the most controversial war campaigns in all of history, and people lap up all the bullshit America is spilling. Terror? Don't make me laugh! WE'RE the ones doing the terrorising.

[CoryTheRaven]

@QwoPhasaArius: There is a fine line to challenging the War on Terror without losing sight of the fact that terrorism and Islamist extremism is very real. To deny that reality is every bit as partisan as ignorant flying the American flag. To hold a pacifist ideology with integrity, one must stand up to condemn both, equally.

[QwoPhasaArius]

@CoryTheRaven Of course. But it was clear from the very start that this would be no "solution" to the problem. It's done little good to justify the many lives taken on both sides, soldier and civilian. And to what ends? The situation has not changed, they're getting nowhere (in fact, many out on the field have even reported it's gotten worse in their area). The poor soldiers are fed up and the public want answers.

[QwoPhasaArius]

There's also a lot to be said about America in all; past and present. In particular recent events concerning Wikileaks and Julian Assange, the release of the 70 odd thousand documents and of course the collateral murder footage. The real horror is that this is no doubt a common occurrence which, for the most part, these countless individual cases the majority of humanity never know ever happened.

[QwoPhasaArius]

I've even been told that the crew of the Enola Gay are considered heros in America? Are you fucking kidding me? Makes me sick to the stomach of the acceptance of this tragedy against humanity. It's as if it has been already forgotten and forgiven. Utterly disgusting.

[QwoPhasaArius]

I had a very enlightening article at hand a while back concerning this, but I seem to have lost track of it. I'll post the link here if I find it again.

[CoryTheRaven]

@QwoPhasaArius: Please do, I would be interested.

[SailorBarsoom]

I saw Galaxy Express 999 and Adieu, Galaxy Express 999 (both dubbed, on TV).

I kind of felt that it was the Japanese trying to do the sort of "machines are evil" crap we do, and failing. And this failure is what makes the story interesting, and not just another tired old "man v machine" tale.

I mean, they really try. Zillians of human beings being killed to make robot pills: they are really trying to be luddite.

[SailorBarsoom]

And then the machine person nobly sacrifices her life for the humans. Again. And the 999 is not evil, despite being an AI.

It seems that the Japanese truly LIKE technology, and this shows through even when they try, and try hard, to make something anti-tech.

Machines Are Good

[CoryTheRaven]

Well, the feature film leaves a lot to be desired. The TV show is the way to go, and it is much more thorough with a theme that is more akin to "giving up your humanity and becoming a cyborg wont solve your problems, and will give you a whole bunch of new ones."

The problem with labelling people Luddites is that the Luddites were completely right. Look them up sometime: they were a group of craftspeople who realized that mass production would destroy their traditions and way of life. It did.

[CoryTheRaven]

Japan's relationship with technology is far more ambiguous. On the one hand they are incredibly technologically advanced and generally don't have the same fear of robots that Westerners have. On the other, they had nuclear bombs dropped on them. That sucks.

A Japanese cautionary tale about our eagerness to adopt a Transhumanist lifestyle is far more nuanced than you might give it credit for. I also think it's worth listening to. I love GE999.

[SailorBarsoom]

"Japan's relationship with technology is far more ambiguous."

Yeah, this is true. It would be wrong to paint all of American SF with the brush Evil Machines Destroying Humanity, because NOT all American SF is like that. But a lot more is than with the Japanese. Especially movies, man. To the point that H-wood perverted Asimov.

There's a lot to like with GE999, but for "relationship with technology" stuff, I prefer Cutey Honey.

[QwoPhasaArius]

@CoryTheRaven It's ambiguous for many other reasons too. Although Japan may be the capital of materialism, consumerism and tech and their enthusiasm [perhaps even obsession] is so clearly represented in their media and is recognised world wide because of it, so much about that country is contrastingly conservative; you have businesses and corporations with heads that don't even know how to use computers or mobile phones.

[QwoPhasaArius]

@CoryTheRaven "That sucks" is a extremely insensitive way of putting it. The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was an act of mass murder "justified" by war. Countless innocent men, women and children, and their children, and their children's lives were devastated.

[CoryTheRaven]

@QwoPhasaArius: One time, I was filling in for my pastor while he was off on vacation and I had someone walk out in the middle of my sermon when I stated in no uncertain terms that the atomic bombings of Japan and the firebombings of Germany were a crime against humanity equally as horrible as the Holocaust. While I was still in university, I organized a silent vigil on Remembrance Day to commemorate the civilian victims of war and terror.

Don't worry, I know.

[QwoPhasaArius]

@CoryTheRaven Thank you. You have no idea how reassuring it is to hear that from you. Sorry if it seemed as though I was lashing out, I just get so emotional sometimes. The realisation that literally billions of people aren't aware of or have never even questioned such atrocities DESTROYS me inside.

[CoryTheRaven]

@QwoPhasaArius: My family were amongst the 15 million Germans ethnically cleansed from the former Prussia after WWII by the Allies. I grew up on stories from the civilian side in war (after all, there are only two sides: the military and the civilians) which, coupled with my being Christian, turned me to pacifism.

[QwoPhasaArius]

@CoryTheRaven I've always thought how sad it is that I will die not experiencing the full glory and history of humanity, how expansive our influence may grow to be and far we will evolve; but then there's times like these that I'm glad I'll die in ignorance.

[SailorBarsoom]

And now their descendants enjoy a standard of living that John Ludd could never have imagined.