I'm an American and I think what my country did to Iraq is the most shameful thing imaginable.
That and Pres. Bush fighting this war all with borrowed money while cutting taxes and giving rebates is one of the things that's ruined our ability to continue to borrow on world markets and given us this terrible devaluation of the dollar.
@SatchmoSings@SatchmoSings Well, Obama is now the president. The US still needs to borrow more money. Otherwise, how the hell will the US be able to pay for the state-run health insurance? The US has been borrowing money from foreign countries FOR SO LONG because the American government simply does not spend the money responsibly. Even when Democrats are in control, the problems do not get any better.
@SatchmoSings Well, Obama is now the president. The US still needs to borrow more money. Otherwise, how the hell will the US be able to pay for the state-run health insurance? The US has been borrowing money from foreign countries FOR SO LONG because the American government simply does not spend the money responsibly. Even when Democrats are in control, the problems do not get any better.
@SatchmoSings Google or Youtube 'the Petrodollar'. It will explain all of the USA's foreign policy since 1970. The Petrodollar system has given the USA tremendous wealth for little effort (accept military enforcement of OPEC countries) for the last 40 years. However, unfortunately it will also eventually bring the USA to it knees in the form of a dollar collapse. Greed got the better of the USA which is a shame for democracy.
@SatchmoSings Its a temporary wealth - like a loan (an I.O.U). Its also not about the purchase of oil (the US can print money) its about the purchase of US dollars. The world must purchase US dollars to buy oil. If the 13 OPEC countries start selling oil in Euros as Iraq did in 2000, or the push by Libya to sell oil in gold Dinar, or Iran or Venezular wanting to sell oil in a currency other than US dollars.........see a pattern.
Checkout the 'Petrodollar Cycle' and all will become clear.
@dazzagazza6969 Not only do I NOT see a pattern, I do not also see the result that claim so I while I don't even understand your premise, I cannot even see its logical conclusion.
@mark32811 It's good that they challenge the visitors no matter what they believe in. That way the visitors can make their point even stronger. No one would listen to it if they just agreed on everything.
I love how he uses the term "cut and run". In America, we invest partisan connotations to phrases because they were used by certain candidates. If someone says one of these phrases? Fuck the connotation, don't get beleaguered by it, use their stupid turn of phrase, and make it your own. Reclaim it as a good thing.
Sarah Palin cannot produce a sentence that make sense. Only American can equate one of the best speaker in the world to one of the worst speaker in the world.
Sarah Palin economy plan is her umbrella of job creation for god's sake.
@garytcw I agree that Palin is economically retarded. However, it's her terribly annoying voice and the liberal media twisting her words that has made her seem like a poor speaker.
I wish Australia owned him altho im sure our controlled media would distroy him before he had a chance like other independents for eg, if an independents talks about immigration our media calls them rasists. If hes not married our media calls him a playboy slease bag. or they simply make stuff up too ruin him its just the way it is here an i hate it, please god send us a Nigel Farage we really need one here
Europe (CERTAINLY including Russia; Europe needs Russia, vice versa) should work together but have full indepenance, the character of the peoples, thier culture etc. should be up to each nation - I would like to see a loose coalition of this sort whereby European culture & unity is promoted as a whole & locally as much as possible, but in a relaxed manner. A Confederacy of some sort would be ideal IMO. European nations HAVE to work together, but each nation should be run in its own manner..
It's a common misconception that 80% of our trade is with the EU. The majority of our trade comes from elsewhere and even though it's important to trade with Europe, we do not need to be part of a political union in order to do that. There should not be a European single market, but free trade agreements with every country in the world. Herman van Rompuy and co will not help you with that.
isolationism and non-interventionism are 2 TOTALLY different things. i hate how the talking heads continually do a shitty job. this guy nigel is right on as far as i can see.
@treez78 I like this guy as well but I'm saddened by the rift between the BNP & UKIP (& indeed NGO think-tanks like Migration Watch, press like the Daily Express); even though these groups express the same views as the BNP, they always condemn them as to conform, to ensure thier personal wellbeing - so though the BNP hold the very same views, they are "racist" & therefore "evil". These attitudes hold back traditional conservative politics - the BNP put thier nation first, just as sane people do!
I love the guy to bits love his speeches, but being a politician, honest, sensible and speaking the truth, as you say a rarity in politics, they all the same power and screw the people he is no different.
@MrUKAtheist: Let's not speculate about his honesty (who knows anyway) but he's certainly a refreshing and necessary asset in the usual EU parliament borefest.
The idea of the EU is a fallacy in the sense of why ANYONE would want a completely unified idea of foreign policy, when all places work in some ways differently than others. There are 27 member states in the EU, and the odds that all of them could agree on any ONE thing other than, "We don't want to die" is a bit ludicrous. =/ But hey, what do I know, I'm some useless American. :3
As a matter of fact I would have said no and anyone else I know as well! So there is no doubt that Germany would have said NO!!!!!! And today more than ever before!
@ORALORALSEX They would only ban the Burka in places where balaclavas and crash helmets are not allowed, which makes perfect sense! Why should we have to let people cover their faces because of 'religious sensitivity'? It's not fair. Anyone could go and rob a bank wearing a Burka and spare themselves precious minutes incase their religous sensitivity is being imposed upon!
I like Nigel!!! He's your version of our Ron Paul...but people over here are too ignorant to vote for Ron Paul for President!!! grrr
He speaks out just the same...makes the same types of warnings....and just as Nigel seems to be right all the time, the same as Ron Paul always ends up being right!!! Be glad he's putting up the fight for you!!!!
He is awesome Im from the USA a boy he and RON Paul we need more of these 2 our governments here and overseas is corupt they no longer serve the needs of the people. How did we alow these few elite to take away our pride and hijack our countries cheers to them for exosing the evils from w/in
We are still one of the most powerful countries in the world. We are the 5th richest nation and have one of the most powerful armies we are a major member of NATO. We have great allies such as the USA and Canada!
@cyclekarl Well obviously we would have better relations with our commonwealth, anyway beside the point i dont see whats wrong with being with the eu, we dont even use the euro anyway, we still kept the pound!
@Saxophonic For how long? In principle the EU is not a bad idea, but it is an undemocratic system being enforced on people against their will. The Irish voted against it in a referendum so they just held another referendum and would have continued doing so until they got the answer they wanted. The EU is merely in the interests of the self styled global elite and is just a stepping stone to a one world police state.
Nigel obviously wants britain to be a tiny little island with no connections round the world, do you know how much power we would lose if we left the eu?
@MrGilles1990 Because we was well connected, and it was nearer to a time when we had just conquered half the world. its different now, we are not the most powerful country in the world anymore.
@Saxophonic well we are still a powerful country I mean to give up are freedom and independence because we are not "as big as we once were" is very sad indeed we have become just a pathetic little island in the EU.
But people want their country back in the hope of Independence and freedom
and the people who don't well Abraham Lincoln has a line for them....
Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. ~Abraham Lincoln
to aussiepolitics, your academic background is questionable. you are not structural engineer. you donot know law of physics . no building can fall at free fall speed . open the high school physics book and use mathmatics and ask question what happened to building 7. i think you are a aussie beer drinker night club bouncer.
We didn't go into Iraq for democracy, or even to overthrow Saddam; that was an ulterior motive. We went in there for the oil, and to impose our way of life onto people who neither want nor need it.
@seafury Whether the war is for oil or not, it is still an illegal war. We certainly know that they lied about WMD's, they admit that now. You had Bush joking about them before. So my question is ths; What would we gain from starting a war with Iraq? And the answer is most definitely OIL. What else?
The war in Iraq was a mistake. We should never have gone in there; it was not our business to impose democracy upon a nation that neither wants nor needs it. Western-style democracy has no place in the Arab world, and we should stop thinking that it does.
well actually you're the one making massive claims without a shred of evidence. extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. so show me this evidence or shut up.
@AussiePolitics Hmmm... you wanna debate the offical 9/11 story? Watch Fabled enemies and red Crossing the Rubicon first... seriously even if you disagree with it out of all the 9/11 truth things I looked at FABLED ENEMIES and CROSSING THE RUBICON are the 2 most solid cases. They aren't - repeat aren't - about exposives in the building,etc... it is about the foreknowledge and dubious ties that the US intelligence communities had with terrorism. Too many people are afraid of documentaries man.
UKIP's idea to completely exempt those earning £12, 000 or less from paying tax is a good one, as is their idea to save £15 billion Pounds every single year by withdrawing from the EU.
Norway is the most eligible nation on the planet in which to live, and they trade with the Euro Zone countries even more than we do. Yet they are not in the EU.
The Liberals, the Tories and New Labour want to scare the British people into staying in the EU.
anyone with anyone common sense would know that that as soon as the coalition leaves, either iran or one of the other countries is going to move into iraq and engage in one of the most bloody periods of bloodletting in the nation's history. nigel wants to get out of iraq because it suits him politically and doesnt give a shit how many it will kill.
@AussiePolitics ............why are we in iraq? why is anyone in iraq?........the war is about saving america's credit card facility - the "petro-dollar". without them having the world trade in the us dollar for oil - they are screwed!!!....thats why they got rid of saddam - he wanted to sell oil in euros!!!....so yes ..unfortunately lots of fine soldiers will die for nothing.....farage knows this...and wants to save his boys!!!
i never defended nor condemned the reasons for the war in iraq, i stated the facts that matter TODAY. and what would happen if the coalition withdrew from iraq is one of the most bloody periods in human history where at first there would be total anarchy - no law, thousands would die, then a power in the region like iran would move in and you'd see the violence intensify. however nigel doesn't give a shit about this, just so long as he can dust his hands on iraq and say "not our problem"
@AussiePolitics ...the facts that matter today......i agree...just on different facts....we should not be there!!..what is the purpose of being there?..WMD's - where are they? nuclear weapon labs - which cave are they in?.....the media is doing a great job in feeding the world with scare mongery.....just to keep the mainstay of the american economy....or rather - its greatest export in business - war!
@szczepan4069 the bigger issue that nigel is discussing is the fact that the EUand its parlimentary system is not the best solution for England. 75% of UK laws are now being made in Brussels - you cant vote in/out the commissioners of the EU. Its the potential for a dangerous shift of power from sovereign states in the hands of a few. Not good for the individual countries of europe...
you didn't say what the facts that matter today were. you keep going back to us not being in iraq. so WHAT? do you think that makes any difference today? do you think that the coalition can say "sorry chaps, this has all been a dreadful mix up, how about you forget we were ever here and we'll let things go back to the way they were." its not going to happen. nigel has his head so far up his own ass he doesn't give a shit that as soon as we leave iraq there's going to be a bloodbath.
@AussiePolitics There is no solution to the problem that isn't going to result in bloodshed. We don't have the right to police the world. We should allow the citizens of the country and region to govern their own affairs. We can effect long term change by regulating the arms trade. U know all these problems can be traced back to interventionism? Do you that the US overthrew the democratically elected president of Iran in '53 and installed a despotic government for 20 plus yrs?
Yep you've got your head so far up your own self-righteous ass you don't give a shit about the present and the future of what will happen to that region. If the coalition moves out of the area there is going to be utter chaos. you thought now was bad? its going to look like paradise compared to when there's no-one in charge. then iran will probably move into the region and there's going to be even more bloodshed. but hey who gives a shit if hundreds of thousands of people will die right?
@AussiePolitics POLITICIANS AND THE MILITARY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PEOPLE IN THE REGION, THEY CARE ABOUT THEIR OWN SELF INTERESTS, POWER, RESOURCES AND MONEY. You need to look into people like Zbigniew Brzezinski who has been an influential foreign polcy maker for the US administration. You will see that coalition presence in the military is primarily about thier own governemnts self interest and not to help people in the region. Do you know what the project for the new american century is?
@AussiePolitics You know there is a organization called Iraq Veterns against the war. Many of them are against the war because they have witnessed many injustices carried out by the military when they were serving (and some of them participated in), they believe that the injustices carried out by the military is fuelling sectarian violence. Type in THE GRANDCHESSBOARD (title of a book by Zbigniew Brzezinski) you'll learn about what really motivates the 'coalition', it isn't benevolence.
and yet again you avoid the real debate at hand and try to go off onto other tangents. I am not interested in who is right or wrong or who cares or does not, what I am interested in is the REAL WORLD and what will happen to that region if the coalition left it. if we left right now, then it would be a bloodbath. but i guess people like you don't care about the hundreds of thousands of people who will die, you'd rather tell them "sorry you're going to die, we shouldnt have been here so bye"
@AussiePolitics I already answered you, there will be bloodshed and injustice either way. The coalition troops carry out injsutices and so do the insurgents, however I don't believe that another country with obvious (if you research) dubious motivations for their intervention is the better option. I don't romanticize what will happen if they leave however after probably years of struggle hopefully something better for the people will emerge. History is full of examples of that.
of course not, the coalition forces are the only thing in that region that's giving it even the tiniest amount of stability. do you know what will happen as soon as they remove their troops and there is no-one in power? it will be a massacre. you thought the genocides under saddam were bad? it will pale in comparison. and yes it will stabilize when another nation moves into the region, but in the time this takes them to control the region hundreds of thousands will die. but you dont care.
@AussiePolitics You want them to stay in the region to help the people, however the motivation of the military industrial complex and the coalition isn't benevolence but power and resources. It is important to examine the greater context of the motivations for coalition military intervention. What your intentions are and what the polticians motivation are different, and intentions shape actions. Look at US military intervention from the 1960's onward and the result. FABLED ENEMIES bro.
oh please mate iraq has become such an expensive waste of money and electoral liability that america and britain can't wait to get their asses out of their. the only reason they are staying is they know they've be condemned for decades for leaving too early and being complicit in the butchering of hundreds of thousands of civilians. What I am interested in is what will happen if they leave, and the fact is that things will get a lot worse if they leave.
@AussiePolitics WAR is good for the economy because of the way our current 'system' istructured. If you look into the history of computers, internet, medical technology, alot of funding from the military, etc.... ever looked into Smedley Darlington Butler, one of the most decorate generals in Us history and became anti war and wrote the book war is a racket? The book outlines that in his view as a decorated general military intervention was for economic interests/resources.
@AussiePolitics You seem to really believe that the coaltion military industrial complex has good intentions. They've brought alot of pain and suffering to asia, the middle east and south america through their intervention since the 1960's, are you aware of US military histoy in those regions? The reason why they are staying is because their geo politcal interests in the region aren't secure, and revenge (dead soldiers).
The iraq war has cost america almost 800 million dollars and they have received no benefit from it and politically it was electoral suicide. America is trillions of dollars in debt to china so going deeper into debt over a war no-one wants to be in is in NO-ONE'S interest. economically america is screwed over and they would love to let go of the iraq war so they could save a dickload of money. tell me, why is america still in iraq. what are they getting out of it.
@AussiePolitics I've already answered you why the US is in Iraq; war is good for the economy, the resources in the region (research into how much US based businesses have made in Iraq, and read the book war is a racket), and to maintain power (they've have permenant bases in various countires) . Quite simply it is an arrogant attitude to be believe that the US should police the world.
no, war is not good for the economy when you have a deficit that the US and UK currently do. resources in the region? don't make me laugh, the oil the US ever got was minuscule, especially compared to the amount they spent on the war. it is a FACT that the war has cost far, far more than any nation has gotten out of it.
maintain power? bullshit. america just wants to get out of iraq.
lmao do you really believe that debt is a beneficial think toa country? all the countries like britian and america who went into the GFC were already in debt and they were fucked when the crisis hit. the australian economy on the other hand had a SURPLUS when the crisis hit and guess what? we didnt even have a recession and our unemployment level is half that of the UK
@AussiePolitics ? Where did I right it is beneficial? I wrote it is an intrinsic part of our monetary systems, again check out austrian economics, and MONEY AS DEBT. I don't agree with out monetary system for the record.
I meant that you had the assumption that debt was a good thing in the context of the current system. a war where you are getting hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, pushing america deeper into debt, the interest of which has to be paid by taxpayers is immense, is not a good war for the economy.
@AussiePolitics OK I'm gonna ask you again will you look into the resources that I presented to see things from a different context? Even if you don't agree with the information at least you will understand my perspective on the situation. Would you like me to list the main ones to you? Are you interested in looking at things from a different perspective?
you're obviously not interested in looking at things from another perspective. you're obviously not going to change your views, its just that my views are backed up by common sense. an iraq withdrawal will see hundreds of thousands of civilians die. are you really so stupid that you believe that as soon as the coalition leaves the insurgents will put down their weapons?
@AussiePolitics I used to be a staunch advocate for the war in Iraq, I used to be pretty right wing. I suppose I haven't read anything to opposing recently but I however know a bit the history of US intervention in the middle east, asia and south america, and have seen the devastation it has brought. Again you draw extreme conclusion from what I have written, I'm now convinced it's intentional.
extreme conclusions? you make frequent references to america trying to police the world, drag up economic conspiracy theories and have the utopian view that iraq won't be too bad if we leave and I'm the one drawing extreme conclusions? Of course I know the history of the region and there's a lot america has to answer for. however to say that is grounds to demand a withdrawal which will condemn hundreds of thousands of innocent people to death in the chaos is lunacy.
@AussiePolitics You seem to have a false alternative in your reasoning. 2 your there is only 2 options; Either people believe that the coalition should stay in Iraq, and police the region - and if you believe that you care about the civilians. Or they beleive in troop withdrawl and that it will make Iraq into a Utopia. I think that's why you mind can't seem to comprehend a less black and white way of looking at things and why you miss many point that I make. Look back at our conversation.
no i do not, i do eventually want to see the coalition leave iraq AFTER THE REGION HAS A GOVERNMENT WHICH CAN GOVERN. now if that involves changing tactics and recruiting militia, so be it, just so there is not a massive amount of bloodshed when they leave. its you who has the false dichotomy - you think that people who don't want to leave iraq until its stabilized want to stay there forever.
oh and for your information the Federal Reserve returns the interest paid by the government to the Treasury. The government "borrowing" money from the Federal Reserve (which is really an incorrect description of what occurs) nonetheless does not cost the government anything
@AussiePolitics If you have the courage to challege your own perspective on the world the best introduction to the an alternative look at 'coalition' poltics is INVISIBLE EMPIRE and FABLE ENEMIES. A great intro into the monetary systems is MONEY AS DEBT 1 AND 2. Research into Smedley Darlington Butler, Zbigniew Brzezinski, US military intervention and support for dictators in south america, asia and the middle east. Hopefully you'll see thing from a deeper context.
you see this is why this debate is so irritating because you go off into random rants about conspiracy theories instead of discussing the implications of withdrawal.
money bears no interest except when its owner consents to lend it to a borrower for a rate of return and when it was spent legally the debt has been paid.
that's the problem with debating conspiracy nutjobs. if you disagree with them they're so brainwashed they either think you're ignorant, or if you bother actually debating them they assume that you're part of the conspiracy.
go take a few basic economics courses then get back to me.
@AussiePol For the record you challenged me to research deep into my own viewpoints. However you explicitly disregard the need to understand immediate history and to question the intentions, and injustices of the coalition military in the middle east, both of which are incredible irresponsible. I supposed labelling me a 'conspiracy nutjob' makes it easier to dismiss the documetaries (that contain publicly verifiable sources) and any points I made that made you feel uncomfortable. VIVA FOX NEWS!
does the documentary claim that the government borrows money from the reserve? if so it is incorrect as a load of bullshit. all i have ever talked about have been the consequences of a coalition withdrawal. it is you who is trying to distract from that point with your random conspiratorial ramblings.
@AussiePolitics (it's clear that this genuine discussion has gone now and we are just trying to piss each other off). You seem to be scared of looking into the documentaries for yourself, afraid you'll become a 'conspiracy nutjob' disprove the conclusions in INVISIBLE EMPIRE and FABLED ENEMIES if you want, but you have to watch them to do it. Don't be scared, man.
answer my question: does the documentary claim that the government borrows money from the reserve??????? because if it does than it is a basic lie and anyone with the most basic understanding of economics would be able to tell you this.
i will have a look at this documentary only on the condition that it does not make up things like this
@AussiePolitics Honestly I watched money as debt 1 and 2 a while ago and so I can' t remember explicity. If I remember right it desribes fractional reserve banking as a concept and how it leads to a paradigm of infinite growth and how it isn't a sustainable economy and that is one of the reason (simplified) why we have 'bubbles', etc.
the reason I brought this up is because I was reading a few forums about the documentary which state that it does make this claim which is just laughable. anyone who takes a documentary which can make such an elementary mistake seriously needs to go back to school.
@AussiePolitics I agree, anybody who thinks 9/11 was organised by a bunch of people who died in the attacks, then half were actually alive, by a pair of hopelss trainee pilots who were able to suddenly fly 747s, and luckily leave copies of the Koran in the wreckage is a few bananas short of a bunch
@AussiePolitics what the hell have I just told you. The proof of the offical story is what you maybe should ask questions about, that is the biggest bullshit conspiracy I have ever heard. I'm not going to tell you what the event was really created for, or how it was done. You should be consious enough to go and investigate that yourself. Otherwise you're just another clone, pissing in the wind while your life is systematticaly destroyed under your nose
@JonnyInfinite oh piss off you utter fool. there's no point debating with idiots like you because as soon as i do then i am automatically a part of the conspiracy and trying to conceal it.
@AussiePolitics you are not part of a conspiracy, you are the unwitting victim of an agenda. Clearly arguing with you is pointless as you have little of constructive merit to offer me apart from silly name calling and minor swears. I hope you wake up soon. Peace be to you x
Look into austrian economics or MONEY AS DEBT for an insight into why debt is an instrinsic part of our current economic systems, an instrinsic part. New development, new resources and infinite business exansion and profit is needed to prop up our economy, war provides all of these things. We have a system based on infinite growth when the would has finite resources, war to prop up economies is nothing new. Check out Smedley Butlers seriously.
@AussiePolitics Look deeper than debt figures because the way the monetary system is set up debt is an INTRINSIC part of it, if you don't beleive me look into austrian economics or for a good intro check out the documentaries MONEY AS DEBT 1 AND 2. The immediate past effects the present, that is why we need to understand it, otherwise we evalutate situations without context. Seriously look deeper into these issues to understand the greater context.
you know what? assuming america is this big evil empire only staying in iraq because it loves controlling a lump of sand and wasting millions of dollars, that still does not detract from the fact that if the coalition leaves, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WILL DIE.
what's your solution? oh that's right, leave. is that because you don't give a shit about all those lives or you just dont think its your problem?
@AussiePolitics History is full of examples of people ability to overcome adversity and political instability. Check out Iraq veterans agains the war for their insights. The US has an extremely poor history of military intervention in south america, asia and the middle east, and it resulting in pain and suffering to the people. It is not the US job to police the world. Out of curiousity do you intend to look into any other the things that I present to you to get a greater look into the context?
what I am interested in is what will happen to the iraq region if there is a coalition withdrawal from there. now you can cross your fingers and hope for the best, but anyone with any sense will know that as soon as the coalition leaves there is going to be a massive rise in violence as the insurgents try to claim control of the nation.
you're right that the region will stabilize itself, but its not going to do that peacefully and over the years it takes for this to happen many will die.
@AussiePoli I guatentee that the region will never stabilize if the coalition stays there, that is the MAIN reason for the insurgent violence. They openly state that, and is clear to veterans, people within the region and analysts. The coalition military cannot eradicate guerilla insurgents, vietnam, and south america proved that, and Afghanistan and Iraq is showing that, with the military might of the coalition no real progress has been made in the last 5 yrs, even military officials say that.
no, the coaliton is the only things unifying the insurgent groups. as soon as they no longer have a common enemy they'll effectively turn into their own gangs trying to control their patch, resorting to violence and not giving a damn who gets caught in the crossfire. I am not saying we don't need a change of strategy in iraq, I am saying that if the coalition left there would be a massive spark in violence. or do you really think once they're one suddenly everyone will put their guns down?
"The reason why they are staying is because their geo politcal interests in the region aren't secure"
at last you admit it, if the coalition left it would not be secure, in fact hundreds of thousands of people would die and there would be utter chaos. of course you don't give a shit about that.
of course i know the fucking history. BUT I'M NOT DISCUSSING IT. what I am discussing is the current situation in iraq. get that through your head.
@AussiePolitics So you beleive that securing THEIR governments geopolitical interests = securing the interests of the civilians? Iraq veterans against the war are agains foreign military presence in Iraq, why don't you read there solutions. Loo,k you need to realize that people can differ in opinion to you a still be sincere, it is cop out to put people in the box of 'you don't care about them' simply because they don't agree with you. I might comfort you, but it isn't reality.
correct me if I'm wrong but you have the attitude "lets leave iraq now". if we did then hundreds of thousands of civilians will be slaughtered. so that is what makes me wonder if you care about it
coalition cannot WAIT to get out of iraq. for any politician to come out in support of the war is electoral suicide, its costing hundreds of millions of dollars putting the UK and US government even more deeper into debt. they are only there because if we leave now they know its going to be horrible
@AussiePoliti No it is unrealistic to leave overnight (if that's what your implying) but we need tangible plans to leave in under 2 years, and no politicians have set a time limit they simply leave it at an ambiguos 'we will pull out the troops in due time' and no plans materialize. If they couldn't wait to get out of Iraq they would be out now after 7 YEARS! The insurgents are targeting primarily (although they don't care if they hurt innocents) the military and government, you know that right?
and what do you think the insurgents will do when the coalition leaves? do you think they'll put down their weapons and say "right got rid of those chaps, now lets all love each other again" of course not, the nation is going to be utter anarchy as different insurgent groups vie for power and to quote you "dont care if they hurt innocents"
regardless of how the mess started we have an obligation to ensure that when we leave it doesn't just result in a bloodbath.
@AussiePolitics The insurgents will probably try to overthrow the government. Their primary target are soldiers and the government. Like I said there is no solution that will not result in injustice (the US military commits injustices too, kills and abuses innocents I hope you know) however history has shown that people eventually govern themselves. We need to curtail the arms trade AND STOP SUPPORTING FASCIST GOVERNMENTS... like the US government support for saudi arabia, and others.
really? the insurgents are just interested in overthrowing the government? and as soon as there is no government in the region it will all become peaceful right?
what a load of crap. the insurgents will want to carve out their own little kingdoms in iraq and dont care how many innocents they kill in the process. as i said, the region will stabilize in a few years but only an idiot would think that would happen without immense bloodshed.
@AussiePolitics I first wrote to you that no solution will be free from bloodshed. Bloodshed and injustice is being committed by the coalition too I hope you recognize and accept? You seem to draw extreme conclusion from what I write. No I beleive that people within the region and the government have a better understanding of how to eradicate insurgent violence, although it will be a long term process.
of course there is bloodshed and will continue to be bloodshed but do you really think that this will get better as soon as the coalition leaves? compared to 06/07 the number of civilians deaths is way down. as soon as we leave it will spike up massively.
Labour has many crimes to answer for, both actual and conceptual. Remember that our EU masters couldn't have foisted their new dictatorship without help. Latterly Labour help, a party more treasonous than even the Tories for landing us in a fully-fledged federal European Bastardstate.
But people are waking up, not with just a little help from the Web.
Click my username or paste title into bar: THINGS CAN ONLY GET LABOUR - WHY THE 'PC' QUISLINGS WILL LOSE THE NEXT ELECTION (SPEECH)
Ditto! I wish he were Canadian and running against the sold out morons currently in power in Canada!
Our politicians are used-car salesmen and whores who service various lobbies and who have instilled a PC environment which has stifled free speach. The country has been eviscerated of any basic moral fibre and has become a Neocon stronghold. It's people have been dumbed down to the point of sheer stupidity.
Finish what you start, sir. We (Dutch) will be gone, we should have been gone a long, long time ago. Its a travesty we even went in the first place. Indeed, I am ashamed of my own country in blindly walking after this warmonger, the U S A
What should I be grateful for? The pittance you sent in our support? Maybe you should be grateful we have been protecting Europe for 60 plus years. If arrogance is telling the truth, then call me arrogant all you want.
Support in what, handing out oil contracts and letting Blackwater run wild? In placing a utterly currupt, 'made in the US' Karzai on the throne? Your sense of righteousness is shockingly misguided, sir. You are either uninformed, delusional or insulting my intelligence.
You just keep believing in your 'war = peace' doctrine, leave other countries alone.
I see no evidence of intelligence, so I have nothing to insult. What Oil Contracts...specifically? The French got the most contracts, not the US. Did we not protect you from the Germans in WWII and the Soviets since WWII? A thank you is all we ask you worthless little fuck.
Well done Nigel, for saying what the rest of us think. We all know how pointless and futile this war is, and we all want our troops to withdraw. It's this miserable excuse of a government that insists on remaining in Iraq. Up with UKIP, down with Labour!
Wise words Nigel. We have been in Iraq for 8 years and its the same result - you could have been speaking yesterday. Shame you didnt point out the difference between Isolationism and Nonintervention to the interviewer. They are chalk and cheese, see Ron Paul on the subject especially when he eats McCain alive in the Fox News debate.
I'm an American and I think what my country did to Iraq is the most shameful thing imaginable.
That and Pres. Bush fighting this war all with borrowed money while cutting taxes and giving rebates is one of the things that's ruined our ability to continue to borrow on world markets and given us this terrible devaluation of the dollar.
SatchmoSings 9 months ago
@SatchmoSings @SatchmoSings Well, Obama is now the president. The US still needs to borrow more money. Otherwise, how the hell will the US be able to pay for the state-run health insurance? The US has been borrowing money from foreign countries FOR SO LONG because the American government simply does not spend the money responsibly. Even when Democrats are in control, the problems do not get any better.
ttiiyy 8 months ago
@SatchmoSings Well, Obama is now the president. The US still needs to borrow more money. Otherwise, how the hell will the US be able to pay for the state-run health insurance? The US has been borrowing money from foreign countries FOR SO LONG because the American government simply does not spend the money responsibly. Even when Democrats are in control, the problems do not get any better.
ttiiyy 8 months ago
@SatchmoSings Google or Youtube 'the Petrodollar'. It will explain all of the USA's foreign policy since 1970. The Petrodollar system has given the USA tremendous wealth for little effort (accept military enforcement of OPEC countries) for the last 40 years. However, unfortunately it will also eventually bring the USA to it knees in the form of a dollar collapse. Greed got the better of the USA which is a shame for democracy.
dazzagazza6969 7 months ago
@dazzagazza6969 I fail to see how this gives the US ANY wealth, let alone for any effort.
Anyway, the US doesn't get its oil from The Middle East, or very little, anyway
SatchmoSings 7 months ago
@SatchmoSings Its a temporary wealth - like a loan (an I.O.U). Its also not about the purchase of oil (the US can print money) its about the purchase of US dollars. The world must purchase US dollars to buy oil. If the 13 OPEC countries start selling oil in Euros as Iraq did in 2000, or the push by Libya to sell oil in gold Dinar, or Iran or Venezular wanting to sell oil in a currency other than US dollars.........see a pattern.
Checkout the 'Petrodollar Cycle' and all will become clear.
dazzagazza6969 7 months ago
Comment removed
SatchmoSings 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dazzagazza6969 Not only do I NOT see a pattern, I do not also see the result that claim so I while I don't even understand your premise, I cannot even see its logical conclusion.
Also, that video was of no help.
SatchmoSings 7 months ago
I can't stand the hosts on mainstream television, they're ALWAYS AGAINST WHAT IS RIGHT.
mark32811 9 months ago
@mark32811 It's good that they challenge the visitors no matter what they believe in. That way the visitors can make their point even stronger. No one would listen to it if they just agreed on everything.
GarciaVega5 9 months ago
Nigel is hilarious.
mark32811 9 months ago
I love how he uses the term "cut and run". In America, we invest partisan connotations to phrases because they were used by certain candidates. If someone says one of these phrases? Fuck the connotation, don't get beleaguered by it, use their stupid turn of phrase, and make it your own. Reclaim it as a good thing.
frogboy7000 11 months ago
@frogboy7000 good observation, i like when people have an eye for detail
urbanpoems 9 months ago
Makesno difference whtn the public think politicians only plrease themselves
cpnstav 1 year ago
@cyclekarl There, is also in the UK
twihok 1 year ago
And people here in the USA equate this guy to Sarah Palin who wants to STAY in Iraq. Fundamental difference indeed...
americans4integrity 1 year ago
@americans4integrity
Sarah Palin cannot produce a sentence that make sense. Only American can equate one of the best speaker in the world to one of the worst speaker in the world.
Sarah Palin economy plan is her umbrella of job creation for god's sake.
garytcw 1 year ago
@garytcw I agree that Palin is economically retarded. However, it's her terribly annoying voice and the liberal media twisting her words that has made her seem like a poor speaker.
EvilShrinkyDink 1 year ago
I wish Australia owned him altho im sure our controlled media would distroy him before he had a chance like other independents for eg, if an independents talks about immigration our media calls them rasists. If hes not married our media calls him a playboy slease bag. or they simply make stuff up too ruin him its just the way it is here an i hate it, please god send us a Nigel Farage we really need one here
jimmycar83 1 year ago
This man is marvelous..I hope that a new type of politician will emerge if they copy him..
TwinFlameUnion 1 year ago
Europe (CERTAINLY including Russia; Europe needs Russia, vice versa) should work together but have full indepenance, the character of the peoples, thier culture etc. should be up to each nation - I would like to see a loose coalition of this sort whereby European culture & unity is promoted as a whole & locally as much as possible, but in a relaxed manner. A Confederacy of some sort would be ideal IMO. European nations HAVE to work together, but each nation should be run in its own manner..
andy7666 1 year ago
i think neutrality is a good thing
thedukeofantioch 1 year ago
What happened to the banner at 3:16? Might be a vote winner amongst the chattering classes...
tdp1909 1 year ago
the EU must die
humanity will defeat them
truthmaster10000 1 year ago 7
Just listen on what Ron Paul said in 1998 (copy) ----> watch?v=wZtPzOukjZA <----
bjarnet3 1 year ago
It's a common misconception that 80% of our trade is with the EU. The majority of our trade comes from elsewhere and even though it's important to trade with Europe, we do not need to be part of a political union in order to do that. There should not be a European single market, but free trade agreements with every country in the world. Herman van Rompuy and co will not help you with that.
MrYoungIndependence 1 year ago
isolationism and non-interventionism are 2 TOTALLY different things. i hate how the talking heads continually do a shitty job. this guy nigel is right on as far as i can see.
treez78 1 year ago
@treez78 I like this guy as well but I'm saddened by the rift between the BNP & UKIP (& indeed NGO think-tanks like Migration Watch, press like the Daily Express); even though these groups express the same views as the BNP, they always condemn them as to conform, to ensure thier personal wellbeing - so though the BNP hold the very same views, they are "racist" & therefore "evil". These attitudes hold back traditional conservative politics - the BNP put thier nation first, just as sane people do!
andy7666 1 year ago
Nigel Farage is such a refreshing change. He is sensible, honest and speaks the truth, a rarity in politics.
MrUKAtheist 1 year ago 77
@MrUKAtheist
I love the guy to bits love his speeches, but being a politician, honest, sensible and speaking the truth, as you say a rarity in politics, they all the same power and screw the people he is no different.
cesime 1 year ago
@MrUKAtheist: Let's not speculate about his honesty (who knows anyway) but he's certainly a refreshing and necessary asset in the usual EU parliament borefest.
albedoshader 1 year ago
The idea of the EU is a fallacy in the sense of why ANYONE would want a completely unified idea of foreign policy, when all places work in some ways differently than others. There are 27 member states in the EU, and the odds that all of them could agree on any ONE thing other than, "We don't want to die" is a bit ludicrous. =/ But hey, what do I know, I'm some useless American. :3
princeroy 1 year ago
i'm not sure about ukip but i like farage.
jimmypubeface23 1 year ago
As a matter of fact I would have said no and anyone else I know as well! So there is no doubt that Germany would have said NO!!!!!! And today more than ever before!
swordfish2121 1 year ago
I don't look at ukip
As left wing or right wing
I just look at them as a party of common sence ....but I think banning the burka would be un-British
ORALORALSEX 1 year ago
@ORALORALSEX They would only ban the Burka in places where balaclavas and crash helmets are not allowed, which makes perfect sense! Why should we have to let people cover their faces because of 'religious sensitivity'? It's not fair. Anyone could go and rob a bank wearing a Burka and spare themselves precious minutes incase their religous sensitivity is being imposed upon!
sh4p3shifter 1 year ago
I like Nigel!!! He's your version of our Ron Paul...but people over here are too ignorant to vote for Ron Paul for President!!! grrr
He speaks out just the same...makes the same types of warnings....and just as Nigel seems to be right all the time, the same as Ron Paul always ends up being right!!! Be glad he's putting up the fight for you!!!!
WAKEUPCALL4FREEDOM 1 year ago 3
he's the only politician that I know of that doesn't let people walk over him. And he's more badass than Chuck Norris
fear432 1 year ago
Speculation, has the girl got a brain?
Germany is no fool, we are going to be worse of then if we had had Hitler
We have to demand the solders leave as the government will never do it as its about control. not a fake Terrorist war.
ukbands 1 year ago
He is awesome Im from the USA a boy he and RON Paul we need more of these 2 our governments here and overseas is corupt they no longer serve the needs of the people. How did we alow these few elite to take away our pride and hijack our countries cheers to them for exosing the evils from w/in
msretta34 1 year ago
We should never have invaded Iraq. It's as simple as that.
TheUKIPSupporter 1 year ago 2
We are still one of the most powerful countries in the world. We are the 5th richest nation and have one of the most powerful armies we are a major member of NATO. We have great allies such as the USA and Canada!
NoFukinNamesLeft 1 year ago
@NoFukinNamesLeft , But I saw lots of Englishman curse American in facebook or on line forum!
hsienkangchen 1 year ago
@cyclekarl Well obviously we would have better relations with our commonwealth, anyway beside the point i dont see whats wrong with being with the eu, we dont even use the euro anyway, we still kept the pound!
Saxophonic 1 year ago
@Saxophonic For how long? In principle the EU is not a bad idea, but it is an undemocratic system being enforced on people against their will. The Irish voted against it in a referendum so they just held another referendum and would have continued doing so until they got the answer they wanted. The EU is merely in the interests of the self styled global elite and is just a stepping stone to a one world police state.
Sheepsqueezer 1 year ago
Nigel obviously wants britain to be a tiny little island with no connections round the world, do you know how much power we would lose if we left the eu?
Saxophonic 1 year ago
@Saxophonic you are a minority in the issue of the EU
Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. ~Abraham Lincoln
Britian was a tiny island in 1940 but that "tiny island" had a big bite!
MrGilles1990 1 year ago
@MrGilles1990 Because we was well connected, and it was nearer to a time when we had just conquered half the world. its different now, we are not the most powerful country in the world anymore.
Saxophonic 1 year ago
@Saxophonic well we are still a powerful country I mean to give up are freedom and independence because we are not "as big as we once were" is very sad indeed we have become just a pathetic little island in the EU.
But people want their country back in the hope of Independence and freedom
and the people who don't well Abraham Lincoln has a line for them....
Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. ~Abraham Lincoln
If Churchill were here today he would be shocked!
MrGilles1990 1 year ago
@Saxophonic do you know how much money we would save if we left the EU?
02dartda 1 year ago
@02dartda and loose with loss of exports:)
bicnarok 1 year ago
to aussiepolitics, your academic background is questionable. you are not structural engineer. you donot know law of physics . no building can fall at free fall speed . open the high school physics book and use mathmatics and ask question what happened to building 7. i think you are a aussie beer drinker night club bouncer.
12345678940673 1 year ago
@12345678940673 I disagree. A building CAN fall at free fall speed.
If you put the explosives in the right place ;)
roflcopter2006 1 year ago
We didn't go into Iraq for democracy, or even to overthrow Saddam; that was an ulterior motive. We went in there for the oil, and to impose our way of life onto people who neither want nor need it.
Libertarianism4UK 1 year ago
@Libertarianism4UK Prove that war was waged for oil. You provide absolutely zero evidence to support this claim.
seafury 1 year ago
@seafury Whether the war is for oil or not, it is still an illegal war. We certainly know that they lied about WMD's, they admit that now. You had Bush joking about them before. So my question is ths; What would we gain from starting a war with Iraq? And the answer is most definitely OIL. What else?
RustyL121 1 year ago
@Libertarianism4UK we went to Iraq becouse it was Bush's and bLAIR's ego that drove them to invade Iraq.
MrGilles1990 1 year ago
The war in Iraq was a mistake. We should never have gone in there; it was not our business to impose democracy upon a nation that neither wants nor needs it. Western-style democracy has no place in the Arab world, and we should stop thinking that it does.
Libertarianism4UK 1 year ago 3
@Libertarianism4UK you are so right and Democracy is not working in Afghanistan Afghanistan is should be ruled by a tribal system.
MrGilles1990 1 year ago
@Libertarianism4UK HEAR HEAR!
MrYoungIndependence 1 year ago
well actually you're the one making massive claims without a shred of evidence. extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. so show me this evidence or shut up.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
i like his stance on iraq, he should say the same about afghanistan and maybe iran. unless they bomb cyprus which is unlikely.
sh4p3shifter 1 year ago
@sh4p3shifter I agree. If Iran poses a serious threat to the United Kingdom, then action must be taken. But not until.
Libertarianism4UK 1 year ago
oh shit i just realized ive been wasting my time debating a 9//11 "truther"
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics Hmmm... you wanna debate the offical 9/11 story? Watch Fabled enemies and red Crossing the Rubicon first... seriously even if you disagree with it out of all the 9/11 truth things I looked at FABLED ENEMIES and CROSSING THE RUBICON are the 2 most solid cases. They aren't - repeat aren't - about exposives in the building,etc... it is about the foreknowledge and dubious ties that the US intelligence communities had with terrorism. Too many people are afraid of documentaries man.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
UKIP's idea to completely exempt those earning £12, 000 or less from paying tax is a good one, as is their idea to save £15 billion Pounds every single year by withdrawing from the EU.
Norway is the most eligible nation on the planet in which to live, and they trade with the Euro Zone countries even more than we do. Yet they are not in the EU.
The Liberals, the Tories and New Labour want to scare the British people into staying in the EU.
bigscolari 1 year ago
continued presence is making things worse?
anyone with anyone common sense would know that that as soon as the coalition leaves, either iran or one of the other countries is going to move into iraq and engage in one of the most bloody periods of bloodletting in the nation's history. nigel wants to get out of iraq because it suits him politically and doesnt give a shit how many it will kill.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics ............why are we in iraq? why is anyone in iraq?........the war is about saving america's credit card facility - the "petro-dollar". without them having the world trade in the us dollar for oil - they are screwed!!!....thats why they got rid of saddam - he wanted to sell oil in euros!!!....so yes ..unfortunately lots of fine soldiers will die for nothing.....farage knows this...and wants to save his boys!!!
szczepan4069 1 year ago
i never defended nor condemned the reasons for the war in iraq, i stated the facts that matter TODAY. and what would happen if the coalition withdrew from iraq is one of the most bloody periods in human history where at first there would be total anarchy - no law, thousands would die, then a power in the region like iran would move in and you'd see the violence intensify. however nigel doesn't give a shit about this, just so long as he can dust his hands on iraq and say "not our problem"
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics ...the facts that matter today......i agree...just on different facts....we should not be there!!..what is the purpose of being there?..WMD's - where are they? nuclear weapon labs - which cave are they in?.....the media is doing a great job in feeding the world with scare mongery.....just to keep the mainstay of the american economy....or rather - its greatest export in business - war!
szczepan4069 1 year ago
@szczepan4069 the bigger issue that nigel is discussing is the fact that the EUand its parlimentary system is not the best solution for England. 75% of UK laws are now being made in Brussels - you cant vote in/out the commissioners of the EU. Its the potential for a dangerous shift of power from sovereign states in the hands of a few. Not good for the individual countries of europe...
szczepan4069 1 year ago
you didn't say what the facts that matter today were. you keep going back to us not being in iraq. so WHAT? do you think that makes any difference today? do you think that the coalition can say "sorry chaps, this has all been a dreadful mix up, how about you forget we were ever here and we'll let things go back to the way they were." its not going to happen. nigel has his head so far up his own ass he doesn't give a shit that as soon as we leave iraq there's going to be a bloodbath.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics There is no solution to the problem that isn't going to result in bloodshed. We don't have the right to police the world. We should allow the citizens of the country and region to govern their own affairs. We can effect long term change by regulating the arms trade. U know all these problems can be traced back to interventionism? Do you that the US overthrew the democratically elected president of Iran in '53 and installed a despotic government for 20 plus yrs?
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
Yep you've got your head so far up your own self-righteous ass you don't give a shit about the present and the future of what will happen to that region. If the coalition moves out of the area there is going to be utter chaos. you thought now was bad? its going to look like paradise compared to when there's no-one in charge. then iran will probably move into the region and there's going to be even more bloodshed. but hey who gives a shit if hundreds of thousands of people will die right?
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics POLITICIANS AND THE MILITARY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PEOPLE IN THE REGION, THEY CARE ABOUT THEIR OWN SELF INTERESTS, POWER, RESOURCES AND MONEY. You need to look into people like Zbigniew Brzezinski who has been an influential foreign polcy maker for the US administration. You will see that coalition presence in the military is primarily about thier own governemnts self interest and not to help people in the region. Do you know what the project for the new american century is?
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics You know there is a organization called Iraq Veterns against the war. Many of them are against the war because they have witnessed many injustices carried out by the military when they were serving (and some of them participated in), they believe that the injustices carried out by the military is fuelling sectarian violence. Type in THE GRANDCHESSBOARD (title of a book by Zbigniew Brzezinski) you'll learn about what really motivates the 'coalition', it isn't benevolence.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
and yet again you avoid the real debate at hand and try to go off onto other tangents. I am not interested in who is right or wrong or who cares or does not, what I am interested in is the REAL WORLD and what will happen to that region if the coalition left it. if we left right now, then it would be a bloodbath. but i guess people like you don't care about the hundreds of thousands of people who will die, you'd rather tell them "sorry you're going to die, we shouldnt have been here so bye"
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics I already answered you, there will be bloodshed and injustice either way. The coalition troops carry out injsutices and so do the insurgents, however I don't believe that another country with obvious (if you research) dubious motivations for their intervention is the better option. I don't romanticize what will happen if they leave however after probably years of struggle hopefully something better for the people will emerge. History is full of examples of that.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
of course not, the coalition forces are the only thing in that region that's giving it even the tiniest amount of stability. do you know what will happen as soon as they remove their troops and there is no-one in power? it will be a massacre. you thought the genocides under saddam were bad? it will pale in comparison. and yes it will stabilize when another nation moves into the region, but in the time this takes them to control the region hundreds of thousands will die. but you dont care.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics You want them to stay in the region to help the people, however the motivation of the military industrial complex and the coalition isn't benevolence but power and resources. It is important to examine the greater context of the motivations for coalition military intervention. What your intentions are and what the polticians motivation are different, and intentions shape actions. Look at US military intervention from the 1960's onward and the result. FABLED ENEMIES bro.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
oh please mate iraq has become such an expensive waste of money and electoral liability that america and britain can't wait to get their asses out of their. the only reason they are staying is they know they've be condemned for decades for leaving too early and being complicit in the butchering of hundreds of thousands of civilians. What I am interested in is what will happen if they leave, and the fact is that things will get a lot worse if they leave.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics WAR is good for the economy because of the way our current 'system' istructured. If you look into the history of computers, internet, medical technology, alot of funding from the military, etc.... ever looked into Smedley Darlington Butler, one of the most decorate generals in Us history and became anti war and wrote the book war is a racket? The book outlines that in his view as a decorated general military intervention was for economic interests/resources.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics You seem to really believe that the coaltion military industrial complex has good intentions. They've brought alot of pain and suffering to asia, the middle east and south america through their intervention since the 1960's, are you aware of US military histoy in those regions? The reason why they are staying is because their geo politcal interests in the region aren't secure, and revenge (dead soldiers).
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
The iraq war has cost america almost 800 million dollars and they have received no benefit from it and politically it was electoral suicide. America is trillions of dollars in debt to china so going deeper into debt over a war no-one wants to be in is in NO-ONE'S interest. economically america is screwed over and they would love to let go of the iraq war so they could save a dickload of money. tell me, why is america still in iraq. what are they getting out of it.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics I've already answered you why the US is in Iraq; war is good for the economy, the resources in the region (research into how much US based businesses have made in Iraq, and read the book war is a racket), and to maintain power (they've have permenant bases in various countires) . Quite simply it is an arrogant attitude to be believe that the US should police the world.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
no, war is not good for the economy when you have a deficit that the US and UK currently do. resources in the region? don't make me laugh, the oil the US ever got was minuscule, especially compared to the amount they spent on the war. it is a FACT that the war has cost far, far more than any nation has gotten out of it.
maintain power? bullshit. america just wants to get out of iraq.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
lmao do you really believe that debt is a beneficial think toa country? all the countries like britian and america who went into the GFC were already in debt and they were fucked when the crisis hit. the australian economy on the other hand had a SURPLUS when the crisis hit and guess what? we didnt even have a recession and our unemployment level is half that of the UK
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics ? Where did I right it is beneficial? I wrote it is an intrinsic part of our monetary systems, again check out austrian economics, and MONEY AS DEBT. I don't agree with out monetary system for the record.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
I meant that you had the assumption that debt was a good thing in the context of the current system. a war where you are getting hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, pushing america deeper into debt, the interest of which has to be paid by taxpayers is immense, is not a good war for the economy.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics OK I'm gonna ask you again will you look into the resources that I presented to see things from a different context? Even if you don't agree with the information at least you will understand my perspective on the situation. Would you like me to list the main ones to you? Are you interested in looking at things from a different perspective?
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
you're obviously not interested in looking at things from another perspective. you're obviously not going to change your views, its just that my views are backed up by common sense. an iraq withdrawal will see hundreds of thousands of civilians die. are you really so stupid that you believe that as soon as the coalition leaves the insurgents will put down their weapons?
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics I used to be a staunch advocate for the war in Iraq, I used to be pretty right wing. I suppose I haven't read anything to opposing recently but I however know a bit the history of US intervention in the middle east, asia and south america, and have seen the devastation it has brought. Again you draw extreme conclusion from what I have written, I'm now convinced it's intentional.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
extreme conclusions? you make frequent references to america trying to police the world, drag up economic conspiracy theories and have the utopian view that iraq won't be too bad if we leave and I'm the one drawing extreme conclusions? Of course I know the history of the region and there's a lot america has to answer for. however to say that is grounds to demand a withdrawal which will condemn hundreds of thousands of innocent people to death in the chaos is lunacy.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics You seem to have a false alternative in your reasoning. 2 your there is only 2 options; Either people believe that the coalition should stay in Iraq, and police the region - and if you believe that you care about the civilians. Or they beleive in troop withdrawl and that it will make Iraq into a Utopia. I think that's why you mind can't seem to comprehend a less black and white way of looking at things and why you miss many point that I make. Look back at our conversation.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
no i do not, i do eventually want to see the coalition leave iraq AFTER THE REGION HAS A GOVERNMENT WHICH CAN GOVERN. now if that involves changing tactics and recruiting militia, so be it, just so there is not a massive amount of bloodshed when they leave. its you who has the false dichotomy - you think that people who don't want to leave iraq until its stabilized want to stay there forever.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
oh and for your information the Federal Reserve returns the interest paid by the government to the Treasury. The government "borrowing" money from the Federal Reserve (which is really an incorrect description of what occurs) nonetheless does not cost the government anything
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics If you have the courage to challege your own perspective on the world the best introduction to the an alternative look at 'coalition' poltics is INVISIBLE EMPIRE and FABLE ENEMIES. A great intro into the monetary systems is MONEY AS DEBT 1 AND 2. Research into Smedley Darlington Butler, Zbigniew Brzezinski, US military intervention and support for dictators in south america, asia and the middle east. Hopefully you'll see thing from a deeper context.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
you see this is why this debate is so irritating because you go off into random rants about conspiracy theories instead of discussing the implications of withdrawal.
money bears no interest except when its owner consents to lend it to a borrower for a rate of return and when it was spent legally the debt has been paid.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics An economy based on fractional reserve banking needs loans to keep the economy going, loans by definition are a debt.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
i really do not feel inclined to someone whose understanding of economics has come from reading a load of websites.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics Guess you don't have the courage to check out the documentaries and research topics that I listed ;-) Take care, man.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
that's the problem with debating conspiracy nutjobs. if you disagree with them they're so brainwashed they either think you're ignorant, or if you bother actually debating them they assume that you're part of the conspiracy.
go take a few basic economics courses then get back to me.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePol For the record you challenged me to research deep into my own viewpoints. However you explicitly disregard the need to understand immediate history and to question the intentions, and injustices of the coalition military in the middle east, both of which are incredible irresponsible. I supposed labelling me a 'conspiracy nutjob' makes it easier to dismiss the documetaries (that contain publicly verifiable sources) and any points I made that made you feel uncomfortable. VIVA FOX NEWS!
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
does the documentary claim that the government borrows money from the reserve? if so it is incorrect as a load of bullshit. all i have ever talked about have been the consequences of a coalition withdrawal. it is you who is trying to distract from that point with your random conspiratorial ramblings.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics (it's clear that this genuine discussion has gone now and we are just trying to piss each other off). You seem to be scared of looking into the documentaries for yourself, afraid you'll become a 'conspiracy nutjob' disprove the conclusions in INVISIBLE EMPIRE and FABLED ENEMIES if you want, but you have to watch them to do it. Don't be scared, man.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
answer my question: does the documentary claim that the government borrows money from the reserve??????? because if it does than it is a basic lie and anyone with the most basic understanding of economics would be able to tell you this.
i will have a look at this documentary only on the condition that it does not make up things like this
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics Honestly I watched money as debt 1 and 2 a while ago and so I can' t remember explicity. If I remember right it desribes fractional reserve banking as a concept and how it leads to a paradigm of infinite growth and how it isn't a sustainable economy and that is one of the reason (simplified) why we have 'bubbles', etc.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
the reason I brought this up is because I was reading a few forums about the documentary which state that it does make this claim which is just laughable. anyone who takes a documentary which can make such an elementary mistake seriously needs to go back to school.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics I agree, anybody who thinks 9/11 was organised by a bunch of people who died in the attacks, then half were actually alive, by a pair of hopelss trainee pilots who were able to suddenly fly 747s, and luckily leave copies of the Koran in the wreckage is a few bananas short of a bunch
JonnyInfinite 1 year ago
got any proof mate or just more bullshit conspiracy theories.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics what the hell have I just told you. The proof of the offical story is what you maybe should ask questions about, that is the biggest bullshit conspiracy I have ever heard. I'm not going to tell you what the event was really created for, or how it was done. You should be consious enough to go and investigate that yourself. Otherwise you're just another clone, pissing in the wind while your life is systematticaly destroyed under your nose
JonnyInfinite 1 year ago
@JonnyInfinite oh piss off you utter fool. there's no point debating with idiots like you because as soon as i do then i am automatically a part of the conspiracy and trying to conceal it.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics you are not part of a conspiracy, you are the unwitting victim of an agenda. Clearly arguing with you is pointless as you have little of constructive merit to offer me apart from silly name calling and minor swears. I hope you wake up soon. Peace be to you x
JonnyInfinite 1 year ago
Look into austrian economics or MONEY AS DEBT for an insight into why debt is an instrinsic part of our current economic systems, an instrinsic part. New development, new resources and infinite business exansion and profit is needed to prop up our economy, war provides all of these things. We have a system based on infinite growth when the would has finite resources, war to prop up economies is nothing new. Check out Smedley Butlers seriously.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics Look deeper than debt figures because the way the monetary system is set up debt is an INTRINSIC part of it, if you don't beleive me look into austrian economics or for a good intro check out the documentaries MONEY AS DEBT 1 AND 2. The immediate past effects the present, that is why we need to understand it, otherwise we evalutate situations without context. Seriously look deeper into these issues to understand the greater context.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
you know what? assuming america is this big evil empire only staying in iraq because it loves controlling a lump of sand and wasting millions of dollars, that still does not detract from the fact that if the coalition leaves, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WILL DIE.
what's your solution? oh that's right, leave. is that because you don't give a shit about all those lives or you just dont think its your problem?
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics History is full of examples of people ability to overcome adversity and political instability. Check out Iraq veterans agains the war for their insights. The US has an extremely poor history of military intervention in south america, asia and the middle east, and it resulting in pain and suffering to the people. It is not the US job to police the world. Out of curiousity do you intend to look into any other the things that I present to you to get a greater look into the context?
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
what I am interested in is what will happen to the iraq region if there is a coalition withdrawal from there. now you can cross your fingers and hope for the best, but anyone with any sense will know that as soon as the coalition leaves there is going to be a massive rise in violence as the insurgents try to claim control of the nation.
you're right that the region will stabilize itself, but its not going to do that peacefully and over the years it takes for this to happen many will die.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePoli I guatentee that the region will never stabilize if the coalition stays there, that is the MAIN reason for the insurgent violence. They openly state that, and is clear to veterans, people within the region and analysts. The coalition military cannot eradicate guerilla insurgents, vietnam, and south america proved that, and Afghanistan and Iraq is showing that, with the military might of the coalition no real progress has been made in the last 5 yrs, even military officials say that.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
no, the coaliton is the only things unifying the insurgent groups. as soon as they no longer have a common enemy they'll effectively turn into their own gangs trying to control their patch, resorting to violence and not giving a damn who gets caught in the crossfire. I am not saying we don't need a change of strategy in iraq, I am saying that if the coalition left there would be a massive spark in violence. or do you really think once they're one suddenly everyone will put their guns down?
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics You also forget (at least in britain) most of the population was against the war.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
"The reason why they are staying is because their geo politcal interests in the region aren't secure"
at last you admit it, if the coalition left it would not be secure, in fact hundreds of thousands of people would die and there would be utter chaos. of course you don't give a shit about that.
of course i know the fucking history. BUT I'M NOT DISCUSSING IT. what I am discussing is the current situation in iraq. get that through your head.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics So you beleive that securing THEIR governments geopolitical interests = securing the interests of the civilians? Iraq veterans against the war are agains foreign military presence in Iraq, why don't you read there solutions. Loo,k you need to realize that people can differ in opinion to you a still be sincere, it is cop out to put people in the box of 'you don't care about them' simply because they don't agree with you. I might comfort you, but it isn't reality.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
correct me if I'm wrong but you have the attitude "lets leave iraq now". if we did then hundreds of thousands of civilians will be slaughtered. so that is what makes me wonder if you care about it
coalition cannot WAIT to get out of iraq. for any politician to come out in support of the war is electoral suicide, its costing hundreds of millions of dollars putting the UK and US government even more deeper into debt. they are only there because if we leave now they know its going to be horrible
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePoliti No it is unrealistic to leave overnight (if that's what your implying) but we need tangible plans to leave in under 2 years, and no politicians have set a time limit they simply leave it at an ambiguos 'we will pull out the troops in due time' and no plans materialize. If they couldn't wait to get out of Iraq they would be out now after 7 YEARS! The insurgents are targeting primarily (although they don't care if they hurt innocents) the military and government, you know that right?
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
and what do you think the insurgents will do when the coalition leaves? do you think they'll put down their weapons and say "right got rid of those chaps, now lets all love each other again" of course not, the nation is going to be utter anarchy as different insurgent groups vie for power and to quote you "dont care if they hurt innocents"
regardless of how the mess started we have an obligation to ensure that when we leave it doesn't just result in a bloodbath.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics The insurgents will probably try to overthrow the government. Their primary target are soldiers and the government. Like I said there is no solution that will not result in injustice (the US military commits injustices too, kills and abuses innocents I hope you know) however history has shown that people eventually govern themselves. We need to curtail the arms trade AND STOP SUPPORTING FASCIST GOVERNMENTS... like the US government support for saudi arabia, and others.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
really? the insurgents are just interested in overthrowing the government? and as soon as there is no government in the region it will all become peaceful right?
what a load of crap. the insurgents will want to carve out their own little kingdoms in iraq and dont care how many innocents they kill in the process. as i said, the region will stabilize in a few years but only an idiot would think that would happen without immense bloodshed.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
@AussiePolitics I first wrote to you that no solution will be free from bloodshed. Bloodshed and injustice is being committed by the coalition too I hope you recognize and accept? You seem to draw extreme conclusion from what I write. No I beleive that people within the region and the government have a better understanding of how to eradicate insurgent violence, although it will be a long term process.
LuqmanNaq 1 year ago
of course there is bloodshed and will continue to be bloodshed but do you really think that this will get better as soon as the coalition leaves? compared to 06/07 the number of civilians deaths is way down. as soon as we leave it will spike up massively.
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
lies lies lies
jh5kl 1 year ago
Nigel is the only politican who makes sense to me
HelmutVillam 1 year ago 18
@HelmutVillam That's because he's one of the few that acutally tell the truth.
NoFukinNamesLeft 1 year ago
Labour has many crimes to answer for, both actual and conceptual. Remember that our EU masters couldn't have foisted their new dictatorship without help. Latterly Labour help, a party more treasonous than even the Tories for landing us in a fully-fledged federal European Bastardstate.
But people are waking up, not with just a little help from the Web.
Click my username or paste title into bar: THINGS CAN ONLY GET LABOUR - WHY THE 'PC' QUISLINGS WILL LOSE THE NEXT ELECTION (SPEECH)
TheDustpile 1 year ago
Farage should be the PM
charlieiscool1000 1 year ago 2
Go Nigel! Legend!
Bedlammechanic 1 year ago 2
I wish Nigel to visit Sweden, is there a posability?
Chouldentfindanygood 1 year ago
Ditto! I wish he were Canadian and running against the sold out morons currently in power in Canada!
Our politicians are used-car salesmen and whores who service various lobbies and who have instilled a PC environment which has stifled free speach. The country has been eviscerated of any basic moral fibre and has become a Neocon stronghold. It's people have been dumbed down to the point of sheer stupidity.
alecrebel 1 year ago
This is a Great man I WISH he were an American...
Greenhornet270 1 year ago 8
@Greenhornet270 There's no point really...
I'm just GLAD that he is a man with enough balls to fuckin' terrorize them...they wanted us to be afraid..
but damnnnn...listenin 2 this guy makes me imagine the day that we all gonna fight 4 our liberties again...
MousikaE8ismenos 1 year ago
you have ron paul we have nigel farage! imagine those two in office! it would be fantastic!
cnutofcnuts 1 year ago
Have you heard of Ron Paul?? If yes, did you vote for him??
naveclipsys 1 year ago
We should withdraw from Iraq and Afghansitan, and in future we should only go to war on issues that directly affect Britain.
MrUKIndependence 1 year ago 2
vote ukip im tellin ya man
2dubstep5 1 year ago 2
Let the Americans do it all as usual.
MrBasilGanglia 1 year ago
Yes, my ungrateful and arrogant friend.
Finish what you start, sir. We (Dutch) will be gone, we should have been gone a long, long time ago. Its a travesty we even went in the first place. Indeed, I am ashamed of my own country in blindly walking after this warmonger, the U S A
Phaeton230780 1 year ago
What should I be grateful for? The pittance you sent in our support? Maybe you should be grateful we have been protecting Europe for 60 plus years. If arrogance is telling the truth, then call me arrogant all you want.
MrBasilGanglia 1 year ago
Support in what, handing out oil contracts and letting Blackwater run wild? In placing a utterly currupt, 'made in the US' Karzai on the throne? Your sense of righteousness is shockingly misguided, sir. You are either uninformed, delusional or insulting my intelligence.
You just keep believing in your 'war = peace' doctrine, leave other countries alone.
Phaeton230780 1 year ago
I see no evidence of intelligence, so I have nothing to insult. What Oil Contracts...specifically? The French got the most contracts, not the US. Did we not protect you from the Germans in WWII and the Soviets since WWII? A thank you is all we ask you worthless little fuck.
MrBasilGanglia 1 year ago
Temper temper.. Man you're a joke.
Hugs & kisses
Phaeton230780 1 year ago
Hugs and kisses back atcha.
MrBasilGanglia 1 year ago
Now ofcourse with Karzai Im referring to Afghanistan. I feel thesame way about that occupation. Just to be clear here.
Phaeton230780 1 year ago
Ever wonder why people like Nigel and Ron Paul are saying the same thing? Coz they are telling the truth!
jrjrg 2 years ago 14
Great comment!
StayKurdish 1 year ago
@jrjrg the difference is in the charisma, charm, and the witty and potent way that Farge delivers his message that has my interest
IranWantsDivorce 1 year ago
I take it you've never been in one.
scaroth1968 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
British troops are already out of fuckin Iraq. America finished the war, violence is at an all time low. America did the job.
NJRocks281 2 years ago
Are you retarded?
WormX123 2 years ago 4
Muslims vote for UKIP NOT Labour! Don't be hypocrites.
ru4fr 2 years ago 6
Good-Never
Necessary-Sometimes
rockshop115 2 years ago 2
Well done Nigel, for saying what the rest of us think. We all know how pointless and futile this war is, and we all want our troops to withdraw. It's this miserable excuse of a government that insists on remaining in Iraq. Up with UKIP, down with Labour!
rockshop115 2 years ago 4
Comment removed
swembacher 2 years ago
i love nigel
thatcheritescot 2 years ago
Good bye, Labour! Here comes a tidal wave washing your dirty lies and hypocrisy away.
Muinaismuisto 2 years ago 3
A thorough cleaning out of our politicians is well overdue. Guys like Farage are exactly what we need to replace them.
He talks straight, isn't afraid to speak against the majority if he thinks it's wrong, and is a charismatic, intelligent speaker.
We could use another few like him.
Rekaert 2 years ago 3
Wise words Nigel. We have been in Iraq for 8 years and its the same result - you could have been speaking yesterday. Shame you didnt point out the difference between Isolationism and Nonintervention to the interviewer. They are chalk and cheese, see Ron Paul on the subject especially when he eats McCain alive in the Fox News debate.
NOTAdemocracy 2 years ago 2
I wish UKIP were running the country and not this pro-war, pro-nwo/globalisation Labour.
Can dream I suppose lol.
SteveFusionX 2 years ago 4
UKIP's policies are way better then any other major parties.
They are anti-war, pro liberty and pro free market.
Keep up good job Nigel. I'm gonna vote for you
danielzopola 2 years ago 8
Love this man! We need more politicians like him!
FreedomForEurope 2 years ago 6
All hail President Blair of the European Union of Soviet Socialist Republics!
double plus good
therhythmicmenace 2 years ago 2