@thefrockdoctrine I can't see any video respose but it the figues fit it will be the right poll ... here is another democracymovementsurrey.co.uk/dyk_pollwatch.html.
What is clear from ALL these polls (even the left/liberal hug a eurocrat sorts!) is that the people want a referendum and in that referendum the people, at very least, want a free trade arrangement with Europe, but if pushed they would instruct our representatives to leave rather that suffer the idiots in Brussels.
@levenbrown It's not a video response it's a link to the poll. I placed it in the description of the Newsnight episode above. Click on the words "Show More" immediately under the video window. At the end of the description is a link to the poll. Stop throwing the snidey insults around. I hug Eurocrats all the time and I haven't ever caught anything. Well, just that once but the tablets sorted it out.
@anglosaxons100 Unless you have functioning crystal ball there is no way you know Cameron did the right thing. He may have pleased a lot of people with a particular viewpoint but playing to the gallery and being right don't always align. I'm not saying he was wrong, my dull point is that we are not going to know for a while yet. It is also possible there is a price to be paid. We don't know yet. As for the "incredibly unknown Lithuanian president" don't be silly.
@thefrockdoctrine - The right thing to do is to restore to the people the power that successive governments have 'given' to the the EU, which they have gleefully taken without and specifically avoiding the people's consent.
Damn what the scaremongers say. They are just vested interests spouting fury at those who dare question the status quo. It is time to get Britain's political/civil servants classes off the Euro teet, to keep them honest and to broaden their horizons beyond the EU's udder.
@levenbrown Who are the scare-mongers? I said the results of the veto are far from clear. There are a large number of possible outcomes. I would like it if people would stop patting David Cameron on the back until it's clear exactly why he did what he did and ditto with the consequences. Cameron is pro Europe. The anti-Euro crew need to apply some of their scepticism to a politician who doesn't agree with your aims, but claims that he does. Talking out of both sides of his mouth.
@thefrockdoctrine - The scaremongers are anybody who says that our exit from the EU would economically disastrous. The one's that play the old stuck records of 3 million jobs, war and isolation .. when infact trade would continue rather uneffected, virtually no real jobs would be lost (only EU non jobs like chris davies!) and as one of the worlds largest economies we would not be isolated but we could embrace the rest of the world as well as the so called single market.
@levenbrown I agree one should never make decisions based on the predictions of scare mongers. However, it may be economically disastrous for us to leave Europe. It is impossible to know beforehand. But that in itself is not a reason to stay in because economically we would recover. There is a lot of scare-mongering comes from the anti-Europe side as well. About soviet style dictatorship or new fascism etc etc and a lot of other hot air. More facts less shouting all round suits me.
@thefrockdoctrine There is only one argument that should be given any credence whatsoever scaremongering aside - the vast majority of which comes from those who are pro EU vested interest (no 'proper' I know are in favour of EU membership unless they are 'on the teet') - is; have our courts or parliament lost any of their power or become subservient to EU law since 1975 without the government having our express consent ? - if the answer is Yes then we need a referendum.
@thefrockdoctrine - It is possible for us to know beforehand how leaving the EU will effect us ... all you do is cut out the crud from the pro EU piggies with their snouts in the trough and look at what happened to Australia, America, India, Barbados, Canada and many other countries large and small who where told all sorts of scare stories about what would happen to them if they declared independence from a foreign power who imposed taxes and tariffs without the consent of the people ...
@levenbrown It's not possible for us to see what the consequences of next week will be never mind jumping out of an economic union. You're being deliberately daft if you think there won't be a price to pay. The real question is whether you think the British are cohesive enough to get our heads down and deal with it. And as usual you can't make a civil point, do you have to revert to insults like "piggies and snouts?" Rise above it you hurt your own case with that kind of talk.
@thefrockdoctrine - there will not be a 'price to pay' ... there may be short term costs but that is an investment in our future as a self determining and independent power that is governed by the people we elect. Not these non entities in brussels most of who have never had a proper job.
Europe will not stop trading with us. The heaven's will not fall and guess what - we get our country and our democracy back - single market yes, run by the EU no ... people who object to that = vested interest
@thefrockdoctrine "The real question is whether you think the British are cohesive enough to get our heads down and deal with it."
With respect that is far from the real question ... the real question surely is; who do we want to be governed by ... people we elect or the unelected, woefully distant, unaccountable european commission?
Your comments are all very well but you are essentially putting a price on democracy and a cost on freedom. I'd like to leave a better legacy to our children.
I would also add people need to take the heat and flying bullshit out of the current debate, the facts of what has happened and what is coming are far from clear.
lord oakshott = pension from the EU, Chris Davies = worried about his EU lifestyle.
B Jenkin could have destroyed 'matthew' with a quote that said that 70% of the uk population want an EU referendum. The lib dems are a spent force and the labour shadow government are a disgrace both want to make us an irrelevance on the world stage by capitulating to the EU and handing over our elected governments power to a foreign dictatorship.
@levenbrown Why would that have "destroyed" him? Saying that 70% of the population want a referendum vote does not equate to meaning that 70% of the public share your opinion and will vote No in a referendum. It is an enormous leap to suggest it does mean that. You also don't cite a source for your 70% figure so it's difficult to asses it's veracity. As for "The British People Disagree" the best that can be said is you don't know that. Neither do I. There is only one way to find out
@thefrockdoctrine - Your absolutely right - there is only one way to find out ... give us the referendum the vast majority people want on the EU.
It would have destroyed him because he acts like a simpleton trying to argue that the referendum is some right wing conspiracy - in fact it is an issue brought in by the people for the people. Europhile newspaper the guardian (+ ICM) cites 70% want a referendum and 49% would vote to leave altogether .. the real numbers are likely to be much higher!
@levenbrown 49% of the 70% who want a referendum or 49% of the entire electorate would vote to leave? If it's the first it isn't a majority. If you send me a message with a link to the poll I'll post it in the video description.
@thefrockdoctrine if 70% of the people polled by a a left/liberal news paper want a referendum - that is a majority. 99% of Express readers want a referendum.
The figures reveal that even in the left/liberal leaning poll that 40% would opt to stay in the EU and 49% would opt to leave the EU ... that is a landslide for common sense, freedom and long term prosperity in my book.
The people are not fooled by politicians and a minority of people on the EU gravy train. Britain is better off out.
@levenbrown That is not the question I asked. I want to know what the 49% is a percentage of. Is it a projection of the electorate? Is it out of 100% of those polled? Or 49% of the 70% who said they want a referendum? As for not being fooled by politicians - you've been fooled by Cameron if you think he is remotely interested in renegotiating the UK position in Europe. Without a vote it's all propaganda. Till then be like Ed Ricketts, a lover of true things and ditch the hyperbole.
@thefrockdoctrine How have I been fooled by Cameron? I have seen the expected backtracking he is doing so weasels like oakeshott can keep his eupension, the hysterical chris davies still gets invited to his Euro banquets and most of all Cleggie is kept on course for his commissioners jobs and his wife kept on rolling in the cash due to the EU's 'green' energy policy.
49% in either case from such a liberal newspaper poll is massive and shows the great strength & depth of feeling amongst Britons.
@levenbrown Okay. Maybe you personally haven't been fooled by Cameron. But a lot of people seem to be falling for his "all things to all men" routine. I'm not trying to downplay the size of the demand for a referendum. I come at from a neutral frame of mind. I would like to see a vote as well but I don't think its a good idea to assume a particular result is a guarantee based on opinion polls. This stuff is a shifting sea of change and uncertainty.
Where's the referendum!!! If Cameron had signed it his backbenchers would of walked out and he would need to put it to a referendum and we know what the answer would be!
@sionnyn Very good point. Many Scots have had a different relationship with Europe than that of the English, pretty much since Bonnie Prince Charlie sped off in his bonnie boat to Skye.
With this veto Cameron has squashed the milipede and eliminated the Lib Dems making himself and the conservatives popular. All that needs to happen now is to call a general election promising a referendum on Europe. Will labour and the lib dems oppose that?
@Sheila1932 You have a point, but I'm still voting U.K.I.P.. Nothing but withdrawal from the (illegal E.U.) is good enough. Please watch "Treason Reported." on youtube, or any of Alan Burges's videos for confirmation that The E.U. is illegal.
@Sheila1932 I thought that myself, Cameron was being too modest about his chess game. Until I read a piece in The Economist titled "The moment, behind closed doors, that David Cameron lost his EU argument last night" By someone called Bagehot. I can't post a link as youtube doesn't allow links in comments but if you google it there are some interesting bits of information about the actual events leading up to the veto.
Please watch "Britain's Entry into The E.U. was based on Deceit" by George West of C.I.B. Can anything based on deceit be good? Lets hope the coalition breaks up too.
@bossendenwoodconvict A lot of things are based on deceit in life and especially in politics. To be devil's advocate I think they would argue that the ends justify the means.
@thefrockdoctrine Like the lib dems saying they wouldn't support increases in tuition fees for students, and then, when they had got into government parltly on the student vote, supporting increases in tuition fees. Like Cameron giving us a cast iron guarantee of a referendum and backtracking (almost losing the election because of it and having to rely on a corrupt party like the lib dems to prop him up. And finally warmongering Labour with nothing about their war plans in their manifesto.
@bossendenwoodconvict Summed up nicely. There is a word they use for this, which I hate, realpolitik, it essentially means sacrificing ones principles for political expediency. We live in world where politicians appear to exist simply to pass power to small groups of elites. In this case, the bankers. The people who created the crisis are calling the shots. Look at the ratings agencies, criminally rubber stamping fraudulent loans and still able to affect entire economies.
That's the best for England what David Cameron did. EU will collapse anyway. Get away from dictatorship.
al4484 1 month ago
@levenbrown Posted a link to the Guardian/ICM poll in video description. if this is isn't the right one (although how many are there?) let me know.
thefrockdoctrine 2 months ago
@thefrockdoctrine I can't see any video respose but it the figues fit it will be the right poll ... here is another democracymovementsurrey.co.uk/dyk_pollwatch.html.
What is clear from ALL these polls (even the left/liberal hug a eurocrat sorts!) is that the people want a referendum and in that referendum the people, at very least, want a free trade arrangement with Europe, but if pushed they would instruct our representatives to leave rather that suffer the idiots in Brussels.
levenbrown 2 months ago
@levenbrown It's not a video response it's a link to the poll. I placed it in the description of the Newsnight episode above. Click on the words "Show More" immediately under the video window. At the end of the description is a link to the poll. Stop throwing the snidey insults around. I hug Eurocrats all the time and I haven't ever caught anything. Well, just that once but the tablets sorted it out.
thefrockdoctrine 2 months ago
@thefrockdoctrine hehe -- it's not what you catch when you hug a Eurocrat it is what you lose that is the show stopper!!
levenbrown 2 months ago
@anglosaxons100 Unless you have functioning crystal ball there is no way you know Cameron did the right thing. He may have pleased a lot of people with a particular viewpoint but playing to the gallery and being right don't always align. I'm not saying he was wrong, my dull point is that we are not going to know for a while yet. It is also possible there is a price to be paid. We don't know yet. As for the "incredibly unknown Lithuanian president" don't be silly.
thefrockdoctrine 2 months ago
@thefrockdoctrine - The right thing to do is to restore to the people the power that successive governments have 'given' to the the EU, which they have gleefully taken without and specifically avoiding the people's consent.
Damn what the scaremongers say. They are just vested interests spouting fury at those who dare question the status quo. It is time to get Britain's political/civil servants classes off the Euro teet, to keep them honest and to broaden their horizons beyond the EU's udder.
levenbrown 2 months ago
@levenbrown Who are the scare-mongers? I said the results of the veto are far from clear. There are a large number of possible outcomes. I would like it if people would stop patting David Cameron on the back until it's clear exactly why he did what he did and ditto with the consequences. Cameron is pro Europe. The anti-Euro crew need to apply some of their scepticism to a politician who doesn't agree with your aims, but claims that he does. Talking out of both sides of his mouth.
thefrockdoctrine 2 months ago
@thefrockdoctrine - The scaremongers are anybody who says that our exit from the EU would economically disastrous. The one's that play the old stuck records of 3 million jobs, war and isolation .. when infact trade would continue rather uneffected, virtually no real jobs would be lost (only EU non jobs like chris davies!) and as one of the worlds largest economies we would not be isolated but we could embrace the rest of the world as well as the so called single market.
levenbrown 2 months ago
@levenbrown I agree one should never make decisions based on the predictions of scare mongers. However, it may be economically disastrous for us to leave Europe. It is impossible to know beforehand. But that in itself is not a reason to stay in because economically we would recover. There is a lot of scare-mongering comes from the anti-Europe side as well. About soviet style dictatorship or new fascism etc etc and a lot of other hot air. More facts less shouting all round suits me.
thefrockdoctrine 2 months ago
@thefrockdoctrine There is only one argument that should be given any credence whatsoever scaremongering aside - the vast majority of which comes from those who are pro EU vested interest (no 'proper' I know are in favour of EU membership unless they are 'on the teet') - is; have our courts or parliament lost any of their power or become subservient to EU law since 1975 without the government having our express consent ? - if the answer is Yes then we need a referendum.
levenbrown 2 months ago
@thefrockdoctrine - It is possible for us to know beforehand how leaving the EU will effect us ... all you do is cut out the crud from the pro EU piggies with their snouts in the trough and look at what happened to Australia, America, India, Barbados, Canada and many other countries large and small who where told all sorts of scare stories about what would happen to them if they declared independence from a foreign power who imposed taxes and tariffs without the consent of the people ...
levenbrown 2 months ago
@levenbrown It's not possible for us to see what the consequences of next week will be never mind jumping out of an economic union. You're being deliberately daft if you think there won't be a price to pay. The real question is whether you think the British are cohesive enough to get our heads down and deal with it. And as usual you can't make a civil point, do you have to revert to insults like "piggies and snouts?" Rise above it you hurt your own case with that kind of talk.
thefrockdoctrine 2 months ago
@thefrockdoctrine - there will not be a 'price to pay' ... there may be short term costs but that is an investment in our future as a self determining and independent power that is governed by the people we elect. Not these non entities in brussels most of who have never had a proper job.
Europe will not stop trading with us. The heaven's will not fall and guess what - we get our country and our democracy back - single market yes, run by the EU no ... people who object to that = vested interest
levenbrown 2 months ago
@thefrockdoctrine "The real question is whether you think the British are cohesive enough to get our heads down and deal with it."
With respect that is far from the real question ... the real question surely is; who do we want to be governed by ... people we elect or the unelected, woefully distant, unaccountable european commission?
Your comments are all very well but you are essentially putting a price on democracy and a cost on freedom. I'd like to leave a better legacy to our children.
levenbrown 2 months ago
@levenbrown Indeed also a worthy question, and merry Christmas.
thefrockdoctrine 2 months ago
@thefrockdoctrine Merry Christmas frock doctrine ... have a fab day!
levenbrown 2 months ago
I would also add people need to take the heat and flying bullshit out of the current debate, the facts of what has happened and what is coming are far from clear.
thefrockdoctrine 2 months ago
People need to calm down! Britain has survivied for over thousand years without EU and she can do so for another thousand years.
324wilson 2 months ago 2
lord oakshott = pension from the EU, Chris Davies = worried about his EU lifestyle.
B Jenkin could have destroyed 'matthew' with a quote that said that 70% of the uk population want an EU referendum. The lib dems are a spent force and the labour shadow government are a disgrace both want to make us an irrelevance on the world stage by capitulating to the EU and handing over our elected governments power to a foreign dictatorship.
Guess what? The British people disagree !!
levenbrown 2 months ago
@levenbrown Why would that have "destroyed" him? Saying that 70% of the population want a referendum vote does not equate to meaning that 70% of the public share your opinion and will vote No in a referendum. It is an enormous leap to suggest it does mean that. You also don't cite a source for your 70% figure so it's difficult to asses it's veracity. As for "The British People Disagree" the best that can be said is you don't know that. Neither do I. There is only one way to find out
thefrockdoctrine 2 months ago
@thefrockdoctrine - Your absolutely right - there is only one way to find out ... give us the referendum the vast majority people want on the EU.
It would have destroyed him because he acts like a simpleton trying to argue that the referendum is some right wing conspiracy - in fact it is an issue brought in by the people for the people. Europhile newspaper the guardian (+ ICM) cites 70% want a referendum and 49% would vote to leave altogether .. the real numbers are likely to be much higher!
levenbrown 2 months ago
@levenbrown 49% of the 70% who want a referendum or 49% of the entire electorate would vote to leave? If it's the first it isn't a majority. If you send me a message with a link to the poll I'll post it in the video description.
thefrockdoctrine 2 months ago
@thefrockdoctrine if 70% of the people polled by a a left/liberal news paper want a referendum - that is a majority. 99% of Express readers want a referendum.
The figures reveal that even in the left/liberal leaning poll that 40% would opt to stay in the EU and 49% would opt to leave the EU ... that is a landslide for common sense, freedom and long term prosperity in my book.
The people are not fooled by politicians and a minority of people on the EU gravy train. Britain is better off out.
levenbrown 2 months ago
@levenbrown That is not the question I asked. I want to know what the 49% is a percentage of. Is it a projection of the electorate? Is it out of 100% of those polled? Or 49% of the 70% who said they want a referendum? As for not being fooled by politicians - you've been fooled by Cameron if you think he is remotely interested in renegotiating the UK position in Europe. Without a vote it's all propaganda. Till then be like Ed Ricketts, a lover of true things and ditch the hyperbole.
thefrockdoctrine 2 months ago
@thefrockdoctrine How have I been fooled by Cameron? I have seen the expected backtracking he is doing so weasels like oakeshott can keep his eupension, the hysterical chris davies still gets invited to his Euro banquets and most of all Cleggie is kept on course for his commissioners jobs and his wife kept on rolling in the cash due to the EU's 'green' energy policy.
49% in either case from such a liberal newspaper poll is massive and shows the great strength & depth of feeling amongst Britons.
levenbrown 2 months ago
@levenbrown Okay. Maybe you personally haven't been fooled by Cameron. But a lot of people seem to be falling for his "all things to all men" routine. I'm not trying to downplay the size of the demand for a referendum. I come at from a neutral frame of mind. I would like to see a vote as well but I don't think its a good idea to assume a particular result is a guarantee based on opinion polls. This stuff is a shifting sea of change and uncertainty.
thefrockdoctrine 2 months ago
Is this geologically possible to squeze the england and mexico together??
shewenhao 2 months ago
Where's the referendum!!! If Cameron had signed it his backbenchers would of walked out and he would need to put it to a referendum and we know what the answer would be!
Vote UKIP.
cornwallgeezer 2 months ago
Cameron did the right thing
RoyalQueenSarah 3 months ago 2
@RoyalQueenSarah Absolutely. Cameron did the right thing -for Cameron.
thefrockdoctrine 3 months ago
This is bound to play well in Scotland, and drive those undecided voters into the arms of the secessionists!
sionnyn 3 months ago
@sionnyn Very good point. Many Scots have had a different relationship with Europe than that of the English, pretty much since Bonnie Prince Charlie sped off in his bonnie boat to Skye.
thefrockdoctrine 3 months ago
Stephanie is hot!
RossoBianco1895 3 months ago
With this veto Cameron has squashed the milipede and eliminated the Lib Dems making himself and the conservatives popular. All that needs to happen now is to call a general election promising a referendum on Europe. Will labour and the lib dems oppose that?
Sheila1932 3 months ago
@Sheila1932 You have a point, but I'm still voting U.K.I.P.. Nothing but withdrawal from the (illegal E.U.) is good enough. Please watch "Treason Reported." on youtube, or any of Alan Burges's videos for confirmation that The E.U. is illegal.
bossendenwoodconvict 3 months ago
@Sheila1932 I thought that myself, Cameron was being too modest about his chess game. Until I read a piece in The Economist titled "The moment, behind closed doors, that David Cameron lost his EU argument last night" By someone called Bagehot. I can't post a link as youtube doesn't allow links in comments but if you google it there are some interesting bits of information about the actual events leading up to the veto.
thefrockdoctrine 3 months ago
@thefrockdoctrine Posted a link to The Economist piece at the end of the video description.
thefrockdoctrine 3 months ago
Please watch "Britain's Entry into The E.U. was based on Deceit" by George West of C.I.B. Can anything based on deceit be good? Lets hope the coalition breaks up too.
bossendenwoodconvict 3 months ago
@bossendenwoodconvict A lot of things are based on deceit in life and especially in politics. To be devil's advocate I think they would argue that the ends justify the means.
thefrockdoctrine 3 months ago
@thefrockdoctrine Like the lib dems saying they wouldn't support increases in tuition fees for students, and then, when they had got into government parltly on the student vote, supporting increases in tuition fees. Like Cameron giving us a cast iron guarantee of a referendum and backtracking (almost losing the election because of it and having to rely on a corrupt party like the lib dems to prop him up. And finally warmongering Labour with nothing about their war plans in their manifesto.
bossendenwoodconvict 3 months ago
@bossendenwoodconvict Summed up nicely. There is a word they use for this, which I hate, realpolitik, it essentially means sacrificing ones principles for political expediency. We live in world where politicians appear to exist simply to pass power to small groups of elites. In this case, the bankers. The people who created the crisis are calling the shots. Look at the ratings agencies, criminally rubber stamping fraudulent loans and still able to affect entire economies.
thefrockdoctrine 3 months ago