From these comments it seems you have never read more than one book from the Baha'i Writings,I have no idea where you get your information from.There is information on reincarnation, (you would not approve),your previous life,next life,heaven, hell, paradise, astrology etc. Baha'i women are not put in a separate room or kept out of the kitchen (we would like that bit) during our period, God forbid.
I would need 20 yrs to understand the Upanishads, 'There's a religion for all types' is true.
That's good stuff indeed. The Upanishads are rich. (I'm well aware that you have no clue what any of that means.)
If you don't have any information in the Baha'i Faith about the nature of reincarnation and how various births are attained at the transition, that's fine. You at least have your rule about what sort of ring you have to wear when your you're planted in the cemetary plus a chant for your women to do during their periods. There's a religion for all types.
"We may weep for ourselves, but should be glad for those who've passed on."
This is heartless. Let the grieving weep. Don't tell them to be glad about anything. They don't know the state or condition of that person. I despise what you just said.
"yes expression is good"
But your "Most Holy Book" admonishes you Baha'is to "not weep in calamities." It also says in your "Hidden Words" "Fear not abasement, neither sigh nor weep." You have quite a few statements like this in your "scriptures."
Baha'is, by contrast, will ocassionally jabber, with some slight self-consciousness, about a nebulous "abha kingdom." But don't ask a Baha'i for any details about it. In fact, I think that the most details ever provided, by Baha'is, about the "Abha Kingdom" (heaven) were provided by some Los Angeles singer who wrote a song where she came up with ideas about it straight out of her head. (A Baha'i children's album w/Bill Sears.) That's probably the most elaborate Baha'i teaching on heaven! Funny.
"The view on death is like a person being born into heaven. "
Baha'is have basically zero information about heaven, or the various heavens, or how to think of the heavens. Baha'is basically avoid this topic because their religion offers so little here. The other religions are far more sophisticated. They list grades and states of heaven, and finally consider them to be all lacking; mere transient states. Vedanta says anything involving "perceivables" and experiences is not the final goal.
And Kitra said: All who depart from this world (or this body) go to the moon. In the former, (the bright) half, the moon delights in their spirits; in the other, (the dark) half, the moon sends them on to be born again. Verily, the moon is the door of the Svarga world (the heavenly world)
Upanishads
You believe the Upanishads to be correct don't you? You refer to them
I guess SO! The Baha'i Faith has a great deal of emphasis on funerals and burial rules. There is more content in your "Most Holy Book" addressing funerals and burial than anything about...
"All things change...wealth is followed by poverty, and poverty followed by wealth for example."
It's a basic teaching of Yoga, Hinduism, and Buddhism but noticeably missing from the Baha'i Faith. The better religions have a direct approach to killing out the sorrow and pain associated with transience, but Baha'is don't even address this fundamental metaphysical problem. The other religions advise detachment from phenomena. But Baha'si are obsessed by their buildings.
Should prosperity befall thee, rejoice not, and should abasement come upon thee, grieve not, for both shall pass away and be no more. (Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)
"Moderation in all things." I'd rather have a religion that has intensity, focus, and keenness, myself. Is that why you Baha'is have a fast that's not really a fast and does not give the benefits of fasting? Is it why you Baha'is seem no better than anybody else in this trash heap world? Meditation, the heart of the better religions like Hinduism and Buddhism, requires intense focus. So I guess you people will never know much about those things. The best things come from focus and intensity.
Hi you two Just need to share this. I have a friend staying,and every so often he comes and has a look at these comments. Now, he went to various churches for a bit, and came out an atheist.When he read your comments he said your sort of stuff is what put him off. He read your stuff, then the Writings,he read you,he read the Writings. He said he can see the validity of this Faith,that there is a God,(again) and now it makes sense to him, and this 'Baha'i Stuff' is ok
I have some unanswered questions for you bahies today. Here is one:
B-u-L says in your "Most Great Book" the following:
"Neither show grief nor joy in times of calamity."
Questions: Is this approach to life psychologically healthy? Is it natural? Do Baha'is teach this stoicism (not crying during calamities) to their children, too? do Baha'is try not to cry, then, at funerals? Other views are that expression of emotion can be natural, purgative, and healthy for individuals.
@BookOfFlaws you sound uninformed this time...that is not in the Aqdas, that is the Hidden Words. I find that principle very healthy indeed. He is pointing out a common way recommended by wise people during history, to find EQUANIMITY in all situations. Baha'u'llah knew the nature of suffering very well and brilliantly overcame it.
He is not recommending to NOT HAVE EMOTION. Further in the sentence he recommends a "half way", just like Buddha did. Bahaullah is just buddist there.
@duckotaco once again you show how much your understanding of eastern philosophy is a mere facade, mere theatre, and not substantial or deep. Your understanding is indeed limited.
@BookOfFlaws ON THE OTHER HAND, Abdu'l Baha (the video is about him, let's not forget) in facts said some things that didn't appear very psicologically healthy to me, and I remember that was pretty much at the same time when I began exploring buddhism, finding health in it.
I don't remember what it was of Abdu'l Baha. But I did find some sayings that were not absolute and sort of dangerous in my opinion, in terms of mental health. Also some S.Effendi stuff
@duckotaco Independent Search of Truth is the first principle of the Baha'i Faith. If there is a an item that you seems not quite right whether in a Baha'i literiture or gathering, you should first bring it up and ask the question. Often there is a lack of adequate information or a misunderstanding that causes doubys in our mind. Please discuss and search about any specific subject with a knowladgable Bahai, or search the Baha'i Writings and your questions will be answered. Don't give up easy.
@BookOfFlaws Stoicism isn't really tought, no. Rather the idea of moderation in all things...including emotional extremes. We do express our emotions, but we shouldn't cling to them. All things change...wealth is followed by poverty, and poverty followed by wealth for example. Funerals specifically are an interesting mix. The view on death is like a person being born into heaven. We may weep for ourselves, but should be glad for those who've passed on. yes expression is good
@duckotaco After much 'meaningfull dialogue' with the devine fellow I have come to the conclusion that this Faith really is correct. Every time he says something about it, and you had a small part in it, I would check out the writings. That is one reason he could spout so much and I struggled a bit to keep up. But the Writings make so much sense when compared with his opinion.
When I read about Abdu'l-Baha. Amazing stuff. I may well convert,but not just yet;-)
I request that you to cease posting my phone number in YouTube threads, cease sending me emails, and if you can manage, cease addressing me or conversing with me in threads.
No, I don't like stalkers. I also don't think you should be posting my phone number on YouTube threads from your anonymous little YouTube account. I have your IP from that email you sent me, and I will complain both to YouTube and any other necessary authorities about your harassment.
@BookOfFlaws The authorities will ask: what harassment. If somebody harassed the other I think that would be you, no? You gave me your phone number. You publish it publicly all over the web. Stop being a joke, Julian. I wish you were Assange, a more accurate atheist Julian.
Why don't you fight more worthy opponents? I am not even an opponent. I have not opposed you much. I have just expressed my opinion. When will you stop being nonsensically aggressive?
@BookOfFlaws I have deleted that comment, because I had the feeling that you actually liked it in its controversy. But it is not in my interest to satisfy your desires.
@BookOfFlaws How come you didn't see that coming? Tarot cards let you down? Stars not quite in line that day? Hell I thought I could get down and dirty, I am a learner against this guy. Well done duck.
"Tarot cards"? I've never owned any tarot cards and wouldn't know what to do with them. (Shows how limited Baha'is are in their knowledge about anything outside their limited and small 'religious' culture. One of the things that made me sick of them.) I have no interest in what duck taco thinks or does. Just interested in bringing out the truth about this dishonest and silly religion. I am enjoying myself heartily.
@BookOfFlaws "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened" - Churcill
it's duckotaco, not duck taco, Julian Pee.
Anyway, his about tarots was a quite correct remark on your superstitious activity with astrology, that sure is superstition and it's dishonest and silly that you steal money from people that way. You simply can't teach baha'is honesty. I mean, maybe you can, but I can teach you too.
@duckotaco I'm not suggesting that astrology in itself is useless...just the way you use it is just an american coverting ANYTHING into money, don't know if with success or not. Americans should stop obsessing about money - your economy is collapsing anyway, so prepare to a life without astronomic clients. Plan B Julian, plan B.
@BookOfFlaws you wish somebody stalked you. You stalk people and make them feel unconfortable by visiting their homes for your ridiculous astronomy joke business. Fuck off. If the bahai faith is a joke then you are ten times a joke.
Twice he fussed here bec. I didn't respond to his email, getting snitty over it. I deleted a few emails tonight, noticed his full of misspelled words and no punctuation, told him I don't respond to ill writing or rude people. Just deleting emails. Now look at the post he makes: One designed to look make it seem I was initiating communication. What a snake.
I didn't realize Baha'is had become dishonest, slippery little eels since my years in the B. Faith. And they used to be into literacy.
My parents taught me to never swear and to care about form. I rejected all this because I am not a testicle as you are. Looking and sounding educated has nothing to do with BEING educated. You look and sound educated but still you're a piece of shit. Like many other people. I am much more educated than you. And I do my job at AAA level and I'm not a mediocre man, writer and musician and fake spiritualist a you are. Enough now! I dont want to offend you further, thats not the point.
@BookOfFlaws you fuckin' idiot, this is mostly lie but it doesn't matter. What matters here is that I come from Italy, and if you know an italian with better english than mine, let me know, you idiotic american testicle. People much more cultured than you are and with better control of the language than your mediocre usage are usually impressed by my english, fuckin' arrogant tool. Shut the fuck up now.
@BookOfFlaws by email did not lack PUNCTUATION, even though it was quickly written without attention to form because that's what online communication is about, FUCK FORM you fuckin' old man.
second, you did try to communicate with me now after I couldn't care less. I sent you that email a week ago, if you don't reply right away it's GONE! and then I got to know your stupid thinking here, I don't care about you replying now. You lose. Go away.
@BookOfFlaws now, since you care so much about form, you should be informed that this usage of youtube comments of yours is against any sort of netiquette common people are used to. You don't know much about how to communicate with this tool. So, now you know, that this knd of exchange should be PRIVATE. You have problems with discerning PRIVATE from PUBLIC. If you think they're the same thing FUCK YOU. The sex vices thing was a JOKE, man without a sense of humour.
@BookOfFlaws this is the stupidest accusation you could do since it's what YOU do and what I don't do and what I suggested you not to do. I will now accuse you of masturbating twice a month, since it is what I do.
I'll also accuse you of shitting once a day, since you seem to hate the very idea of shit.
@BookOfFlaws you fool, if you think I'm gonna begin to talk to you via email you're wrong. Forget about it, I don't have time to waste. I said everything that had to be sayed about you, and that's all. Reality is the final judge.
@duckotaco People like you simply don't perform well as gurus, which obviously is their ego's greatest desire. People like you Julian fail to understand the importance and wisdom of being and humble and transmitting humility, something Abdul Baha knew how to do well, even though maybe he wasn't perfect - and he doesn't have to be. Sure you have to learn his humility. Until that moment, forget about being a guru. Your philosophy too is full of flaws and imperfect.
Baha'is like to say "we're not political." Yet in reality their whole teaching program looks, in these days, like nothing but a racial and culture program, indeed a political program. "One world government." "Multiculturalism." "Advocacy of science." (Opposite the founders.) "Feminism." Where the hell did the religion part of the Bahai Faith go? Like I said, it's just Marxism for naive Whites to make themselves feel O.K. after watching too much TV and getting afflicted with White Guilt syndrome.
It is with greatest disgust that I observe that Baha'is not only don't understand or appreciate this aspect of their religion, they actually reject and disavow it. Just one of many demonstrations that what's called "the Baha'i Faith" is far from its origins and founding scriptures, and that it's nothing but an intellectual program.
So, the real stunning thing then, is the fact that Baha'is don't have this element, or don't comprehend it, or they reject it (as the Baha'i below rejects 'devotion to the founder' as a Top-10 item) -- notwithstanding the fact that this element is heavily present in their writings. In fact Baha'i prayers, too, incredibly bhakti-oriented. They are dripping with the devotion. Baha'i prayers are nothing if not exercises teaching Baha'is what the devotional attitude is like.
The human feeling of devotion (and emotion generally) are the highest aspect of man. Not his ratiocinations or mere thoughts. God wants us to cry out to Him and have devotion for Him, just as a man wants a woman who has feeling/devotion for him, not cool and aloof agreement. ("I agree in these cool Baha'i 'principles'"). Devotion is the heart of real religion. Christ gave the "highest law" the same way: "To love the lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul."
This is one of the many ways that, as I've stated before, Baha'is don't understand their own religion, focusing on non-essentials and invented imperatives, while ignoring the real gold of their religion. (Guru-bhakti, chanting.) Or considering those latter things unimportant or nuisances. It is an aspect of Baha'is being religiously uneducated. The point of a "manifestation of God" is, in fact, to help us cultivate and focus devotional feelings Godward.
Now, anybody familiar with the best aspects of Hinduism, Yoga, and Buddhism know about the principle of bhakti, or devotion, sometimes called guru-bhakti. In Hinduism and yoga this "bhakti" or devotion is often extolled as the highest and most reliable path to God-knowledge and samadhi. They would look at such Baha'i writings and say, "Oh, bhakti. This is clearly bhakti. The Baha'i Faith has a strong bhakti element. How nice." But notice that the Baha'i was simply embarrassed about it.
So when I placed "devotion to the founder" as one of the "Top 10" items in the B. Faith, I was not mocking or belittling the BF with that item. That was, in fact, one of the respectable items. But notice how the Baha'i reacted. He was embarassed about it. His response was, essentially, 'No, we are not that devoted to Baha'u'llah. We only have 2 days honoring him.' Follow along carefully.
"Dress my raven locks" -- and this is just one of many Baha'u'llah quotes of this nature, is clearly an inducement to devotion. Indeed, the Hidden Words are loaded with this sort of devotional content self-directed by Baha'u'llah at himself, as an admonition to Baha'is about how they should be toward him.
Now, the really sad thing is that this is, in fact, the best aspect of the Baha'i Faith (along with the chanting of the Bahai' mantra), but Baha'is (like the one below) don't know this.
One that comes to mind from memory, from the "Hidden Words," is this one:
"The comb, too, have I given thee that thou mayest dress My raven locks, and not lacerate My throat."
This one is a perfect example because it contains both his repeated admonitions to worship him (have devotion) combined with his continually voiced "I'm so persecuted, I'm so wronged!" message. Anybody vaguely familiar with Baha'i writings will no well I speak the truth about this.
From this "Hidden Words," called by some Baha'i Teachers the book of 2nd importance in the :BF, it is clear as the sun that the Baha'i Faith has a strong devotional element, and that the believers are supposed reverential devotion toward Baha'u'llah. He himself speaks (of himself) this way, and a lot of his lines are fulminations and condemnations of others (from kings to the followers) for not revering him adequately. Even in the Hidden Words.
His multitude of superlative terms for himself, such as "Blessed Beauty," "Day Star of Splendor," and so on are just one of the evidences of this. (I might pull out a list of such references to himself from their "Most Holy Book" a bit later.) Even in the "Hidden Words," which is supposed to be the "essence of all religion," contains perhaps up to a quarter of its verses are self-glorifications by Baha'u'llah, often speaking of himself in the 3rd person.
Waio differs with my listing "Beauty and glory of the founder; Baha'is should worship the founder devotionally." (As a top 10 item.) As proof, he says there are only two "holy days" associated with Baha'u'llah. But I was talking about a more important assay, and that is the content of their scriptures. There is, quite possibly, no religious figure who extols himself so much, or regales so much his followers with the imperative to worship him.
Waio says that Number 4 -- emphasis on getting along, institutions for deciding questions -- is incorrect. I was being generous to Baha'is here. Certainly there is an emphasis, across the Baha'i writings, on the idea of amity, harmony (so called "unity") and getting along with each other as well as other religionists. This kind of theme, further, is mentioned far more than "equality of men and women" or "harmony of science and religion." (Neither phrase exists in their founding writings.)
You say that item 2, the ,greatness of martyrdom,, is "not correct" as a "top 10" item in Baha'i. This is simple mendacity from you. Or perhaps you are not even familiar with your own writings. For every time any idea of "equality of men and women" (to give one example) is mentioned in Baha'i writings, martyrdom gets extolled perhaps 10 times. Even in the Hidden Words. On item 2, this Baha'i is simply telling lies.
It just goes to show that Baha'is don't really like their founder & can't relate to him. Baha'is don't realize how much they are missing, in the religious realm, when even their so-called human personification of the divine is somebody they can't pray to or don't want to. Just one of the many sad things about your religion. But looking at his picture, I guess I understand.
:Why not pray to your guru? It's odd that you wouldn't. The reason the Deity personifies Himself in a human form is so human beings have something to relate to. Anybody can communicate spiritually with anybody else, here even in the world. Why do you not wish to pray to Baha'u'llah? He is the "Blessed Beauty"! The "Dayspring of Munificence," etc. I pray to my guru, have prayed to Christ, and pray to God in other forms.
Trying to ascertain "what really happened" in a "past" that is found to be constantly changing and movable like an alligator, is the kindergarten of religion. The religious adept chooses the past he pleases.
@BookOfFlaws these are fantasies, not truth to me. Spiritual people can end up too detached form realoty. reality exists. It is not true that if you think it then it's true. Lies exist, bullshit exists. You are mixing hindu wisdom with postmodern idiocy.
@duckotaco -- Well, though you are unfortunately little-equipped for yoga (lacking faith as you do), I note that you do have faith in at least one thing: the past. (Nothwithstanding your daily evidence that the past continually changes.) See, you have faith after all. Just in dumb things. But it's a start.
@BookOfFlaws you have faith in dumb things. I am much more REASONABLE than you. You have abandoned reason. I am valuing Ayn Rand more now. Spirituality makes people detached from reality and deluded. I think you are detached from reality and deluded. Sorry. Some REASON would do good to you.
Reality is real. Your thoughts aren't. This is Buddha's message. You thinking that thoughts are real and reality is not is called INSANITY. If you think your thoughts are real but reality isnt
@duckotaco -- All humans live in their own personal reality. At night during your dreams you consider that reality. The Vedas teach that passing phenomena are not Reality. You are just attached to a certain sort of coarse, seemingly impervious (yet transitory) "reality." Your "reality" is just what you are attached to. (Such as you being attached to particular past stories, even though other people continually change them on you.)
@BookOfFlaws there is something called objective reality. If you don't believe in that we're not going to talk anymore. If you don't believe in objective reality then you have to piss off, you'll be insane and I'll be reasonable, and it ends that way.
@BookOfFlaws the sky is blue. If it's a dream that it is blue, it is a real dream and if you think it's not "real", then you're insane by wordly standard, and you have to be hospitalized, spiritual or not.
You are uneducated. It's the Upanishads that teach that the creative principle (Isvara, etc.) is "lord of the past, present, and future," having complete power over all three. (Even your own daily world, as noted, changes your past regularly.). Further the Upanishads themselves teach (esp. the Mundakya) that the past is a mental projection like all the rest. In any case, I won't discuss religion with a fellow who uses profanity while doing so. So this will be my last post on this.
@BookOfFlaws the past cannot be changed. The present and the future can. I don't believe in this kind of new age silliness. This is not spirituality, but fantasy.
I am going to walk to the store. It was a good discussion. I encourage your continued interest in the yoga of India. It would be fun fo you to read Autobiography of a Yogi, and also "Miracle of Love."
Baha'is get that same power-lust: To stand up there, maybe with funny little reading glasses, and give a talk and be "Continental Kahuna." So, the avid ones try to get a doctorate or become a doctor. Because, of course, you can't get to be a Continental Mojo without having "Doctor" after your name. No God-knowledge is needed, no insight into scriptures. Just be good loking, get a PhD, and be a good talker. (Some jokes helps.) Then you can be a covert idol and rock-star to guru-hungry Bahais.
The organized Catholic church printed up little holy cards of saints doing the Anjoli Mudra (hands together, upraised to the face). So, I started doing that young. It was one of the most important things that ever happened to me. It later became associated with the lifting of the shakti up the spine, as it is supposed to do in yoga, and did for the Catholic saints. The org also provided me with malas for chanting (rosaries) and repetition of prayers. Highly significant.
Religion does not "fail" because of heirarchy or organization. It was because the Catholic Church created beautiful, mystical places devoted to God (the sanctuaries) that I got in touch with God in the form of space (akasa) as described in the Upanishads. My original spiritual food was sitting in the quiet, reverberant Catholic churches, alone. These would not have existed without organization, structure. They provided spiritual experence.
@BookOfFlaws this is not a good reason to respect churches. Churches are beautiful, as much as a tree you could have sitten under. This is not a reason for me to respect religious structures. I do not respect religious structures.
@BookOfFlaws "Religion does not "fail" because of heirarchy or organization."
obviously it fails and will always fail because of that! No two individuals can ever agree forever with each other. When you put two individuals together, there will be conflict if they're honest. That is why the bahai community is not a good environment for spiritual progress, as you yourself said! The reason why you and me find buddism and hinduism deeper is because they DONT have that kind of structure
The list would look like that. "Equality of men and women," based on the actual incidence of statements in the literature, would not make the list. (It's not even a teaching, per se, in those words.) "Harmony of science and religion" could not make the list.
I realized that the BF was developed for westerners as a marketing package for Marxist-influenced progressives. That disgusted me. With my yogic studies I appreciated the austere tone of the Aqdas. Yet it was too Islamic & primitive for me.
@duckotaco the individual has a soul and a brain. There is nothing like a collective brain, and a collective soul? Hhhm, what matters is that communities have always oppoed the brilliance and best in individuals, because that brilliance DISTURBS the peace of communities.
Life is, to me, a war of the individual against groups.
Groupthink is always bad. If groups have a soul, it's a bad one.
If you hired 20 scholars, non-Baha'i, to study the three most important Baha'i scriptures and come up with a "Ten Basic Principles" list, they would come up with something like this:
TEN BASIC PRINCIPLES OF THE BAHA'I FAITH
1) Beauty and glory of the founder; Baha'is should worship the founder devotionally.
2) Greatness of martyrdom
3) Say a special chant once every day (95 times)
4) Emphasis on getting along, institutions for deciding questions.
@BookOfFlaws all things that sound like the community dictatorship over the individual. being the individual the house of God, and not the community, the community is against god. Organized religions are against God (whom is in the individual).
Around that time, too, the BF came out with a new, different translation of the "worthy of study" comment that made it sound like astrology was a bad thing. I began to see how closed-minded and fearful Baha'is were about so many things.
-- Another was starting to wonder: "Why is there no Aqdas yet? Did all the Arabic translators die off? Then finding a copy and finding it HAD been translated long ago, and realizing WHY they had suppressed it. (Would have made BF look bad.)
It's the deeply religious people who get the highest spiritual knowledge. It takes rigor, intensity, faith, and technique. These come from religion. Who would do austerities or fast if religion did not tell them it was good? Who would practice meditation of religion did not point it out and advocate it? When somebody says "I'm spiritual but not religious" (I hear it all the time), I just know, "Oh, they don't get much spiritual knowledge. They want to be lazy. They're not sure of anything."
@BookOfFlaws Laziness isn't good, but "not being sure of anything" is good to me. Very good. It is a good way to avoid delusion and error. One must keep a "don't know" mind for all of his life. Constant curiosity, constant knowledge of NOT KNOWING! Do you have that.
And by the way, if you live around San Francisco, do you know that guy Jose Stevens? I get the feeling you have met him
"Laziness isn't good, but "not being sure of anything" is good to me."
For seeker stages, yes. For development faith and certitude are even better. Faith is unconscious knowledge, your expression of divine will. One must get certitude or faith that meditation might have value before he'll undertake it. Ram Das, who I dislike, said a good thing: At the beginning is eclecticism/search. At the end is enlightenment. In between is "lineage" -- some definite path you throw yourself into.
Why would anyone, having spent years in this Faith, a Faith based on the assumption that all the Prophets of old, including Krishna, have been Manifested in Baha'u'llah, and having even a rudimentary knowledge of this, then want to be a Hindu? Or a Buddhist? If the founders of these religions have said that They or someone will return, revealing all truth,why doubt them and go to their old Religion? Strange
@waiotahi52 yes because it's mroe complex, or rather more simple, than that. If bahaullah said that he was teh promised one, and founds a religion with 6 million followers or less, it doesn't mean that he really was the promised one. he was a man, and he could be wrong. It is not so crazy to not be a baha'i. Also, hinduism and buddhism truly are deeper, and in many points they are in conflict, and not agreement, with bahai
@duckotaco -- He was the promised one for those who want him to be their promised one. Everybody gets to have a "promised one" if they long for that for a spell.
"Also, hinduism and buddhism truly are deeper, and in many points they are in conflict, and not agreement, with bahai"
Oh, definitely. That is right. Both things. Seems like you have studied a bit. One of the purposes of my posting here is to show how Baha'i is indeed in conflict with most of the best things in Hinduism.
@BookOfFlaws Oh wow, I know a Birkland, probably a son of this AuxB. I despise the whole of bahai gerarchy. That is a game of power and has nothing to do with spirituality. see where religion fails? In this kind of game.
The baha'i community is against intellectuals and artists, we know that. These two figures are too creative and dangerous for the status quo. Too bad it's their job to destroy the status quo. Therefore, most intellectuals and artists have left the bahai faith.
"I despise the whole of bahai gerarchy. That is a game of power and has nothing to do with spirituality."
Yes and no. It is a version of religion. There need to be many different religions. In a way, Baha-u was trying to think like a westerner in formulating his religion. Then it appealed to westerners adapted to the control structures of the European Catholic church. Catholic types really take to the BF for that reason. It's an "organized" control approach to religion that westerners like.
Within such religions and control structures pure spiritual knowledge can be got; just as many blissed-out mystic Catholic saints arose within the safe and ordered confines of the Catholic church. (The monastics, etc.) The sufies tell an analogy of the tree that grows great and large, but also gets rigid. Many creatures can come live in it, etc.
They build sanctuaries for worship, seclusion; make those available to monastics; distribute the luminous words of the saints, hold Sunday worship in which bhakti (devotional) feelings are stimulated (with choirs and devotional singing, further lifting the kundalini). My guru's guru, Yukteswar, was "organized" enough to have a place where his monks could meditate, get fed, have a discipline life, etc. May as well say: "I don't think hospitals should be organized or have any authorities."
One of the things I became aware of, in the Baha'i Faith, was the way that Baha'is are actually into power thrills. In genuine religion, God-contact gives the thrills; thrills coming from worldly power or control are just same-a-usual human addictive life. Not that a holy man would not have tasks, duties, things to do, responsibilities. But I perceived how into power Baha'is are. For example, they get bliss dreaming of world conquest and seeing their beautiful impressive buildings.
@BookOfFlaws -- In the deeper religion one gets bliss from meditaiton and God-contact, and that is the goal. Not from "doing things" or "fixing the world." He may do those things from duty, but that is not where his bliss derives. The Hidden Words actually contain guidance of this nature. There is, also, a quite extraordinary statement that Baha'u'llah says, in the Aqdas, about the Baha'i chant, implying it's the real center of Baha'i life. But Baha'is have no clue about it.
@BookOfFlaws you have said this 892728227272 times already. could you please tell me WHY you reapeat it. I am not going to listen to you if you repeat what you have already said.
@BookOfFlaws we are just from different cultures and generations, man. I am not used to all this repetition and a few other things. But I have said where I completely agree, that's what matters.
"I think it's evil and deluded to try to "organize the world" or control the world through one org. "
It's not deluded if you can. It's deluded if you're the bahai house of justice, which is barely known to the world.
but Rockefeller can, can aid a world governement, and he's doing it.
@BookOfFlaws the power htrills exist because a hierarchy and clergy exists. That is why you shouldn't have a beuroucracy apart from what is essential for basic organization. The existance of a hierarchy will automatically translate into power games and thrills. As much as it exists, people will put their egos into it
I think it's evil and deluded to try to "organize the world" or control the world through one org. However, kingdoms exist. Human beings want kingdoms to exist. Kingdoms are places of some order and law that make higher culture & higher communal experience possible. In Hinduism there is no overarching "Hindu church" that tries to control everything. Instead, there are gurus. But the sat-guru acts like a king in his realm. He'll organize his work however, according to his predilection.
@BookOfFlaws and by the way all these "rants" would find a good place in a site called bahairants-dot-com, in case you don't know it. I recommend it, especially the comments section.
Another thing is how Baha'is have these "leaders who are not leaders," "personalities who are not supposed to be personalities." I mean, of c., the "Continental" and "Auxiliary" types. They become the objects where Baha'is project their desires for power and glamor. It is very interesting. Humans have a need for gurus and glamorous spiritual leaders. But that's not "ok. So Baha'is project that need onto these persons covertly. The big shots play along, getting a mythic status. It's very funny.
@BookOfFlaws it is amazing how people today conversate by talking on their own, with no attention whatsoever to the person in front of them; there's no communication, we're all alone, self-absorbed douchebags as I said before. If you weren't as self absorbed you would get a number of advantages, you cannot possibly think that there is nothing wrong in your behavior at all. Be insecure, otherwise, you're not very smart. Smart people are insecure by default.
@duckotaco -- I'll read your posts when I get to them. I can't read your posts while also typing my own, young fool. Clean up your mouth and stop talking about objects put up into their privates and maybe I'll read a few more of yours and respond.
-- Seeing Steven Birkland (AuxB) walk out to protest a Baha'i musician for teaching the group to chant the B. chant. (Too mystical.)
-- Realizing that the contents of the H. Words were profound, unexamined Sufi-like mystical content, then seeing Bahais considered it unimportant.
-- Discovering astrology was real, and worked. Then finding that Baha'is were nervous & shunned me for studying it, tho AB said it was "worthy of study."
@duckotaco -- I don't believe I copy-pasted a duplicate post. If you'd like to show me where there are duplicate posts, I'll delete one. Or maybe you are just carping some more.
"Why would anyone, having spent years in this Faith...then want to be a Hindu? Or a Buddhist?"
Well, the way it happened with me was seeing Baha'is didn't seem to really have answers for a many things. (Reading the "Seth Material" was another catalyst.) Then, getting handed "Autobiography of a Yogi" and finding that the book dealt with a vast world of religion that was basically alien to Baha'i minds. Thus I restarted my seeking.
That is true. It is astounding what eternal knowledge is found in the ancient texts. The past is one's own self-projection. If one wants to deposit knowledge for one's self, out in his external world-dream, he can script-write that it arise from any epoch. The neat and tidy "progression" idea Baha'is entertain does not comport with the wild nature of samsara. Besides, the old scriptures are far more sophisticated and profound than Baha'i writings. (I don't write here just for you.)
Pasts (which constantly change) are a malleable part of your exterior, transitory world-dream. Any story can come true for the human mind if he hankers after it enough. That is the knowledge in the Vedas which you claim to like.
@BookOfFlaws "Any story can come true for the human mind if he hankers after it enough."
That will mean that a LIE is CONFUSED by truth. It is not thatif you THINK it's true, then it is. The mind can do MISTAKES. It does all the time.
Faith is good but not when reason is completely abandoned.
There is no guarantee that you did truly understand the Vedas in their entirety. You a a human being, and you can be mistaken. You are not infallible. If you think so you're insane.
@duckotaco -- The only truth is the Pure Consciousness. The entire created world is, in Upanishadic terms, a lie. The mind, and the Pure Consciousness, can generate and erect any transitory false thing it likes. That's in fact what you are continually doing. The only truth is in the power of the Pure Consciousness (Brahman) to externalize infinite phenomena. And that's all.
@BookOfFlaws the fact that the world is a "lie" is between many quotes in western terms. It is symbolical, not literal. Reality exists. The sky is blue for everyone. The whole of life could be a dream, ok, but you stil have to THINK it is real, otherwise you wouldn't wake up or eat. Being too detached from the dream that material reality is a silly idea. Also, if somebody kills you it is not you that created it, and if it's karma, fine, maybe. MAYBE, but theres no way to be sure
@duckotaco and I'm not going to be sure of anything I can't be sure of. Karma is THEORY, also reincarnation, I have no proof of them. Buddha wasn't sure of reincarnation. That is the way, the way of certainty/uncertainty. I don't want to endorse your full on detachment from reality because it's a dream. I find it counterproductive and useless to everything and everyone, and conducive to madness.
@BookOfFlaws so no, there are many things that are true and are facts, such like the fact that the sky is blue. If it's a dream, it's a collecitve dream, therefore you MUST think it is reality, or be hospitalized. We go nowhere as humanity if we don't agree on what is real and what is not. You are too impractical and detached from the world to me. Bahais too wordly? Maybe. But you are too much of the opposite. I want BALANCE
@BookOfFlaws it is even possible that pasts constantly change, but not because you said so. It is an intruiguing idea I'm not going to say no to right away, but it is not true just because you said it.
@BookOfFlaws the world is not a "dream". I don't think Buddha really believed that, nor Krishna. This is a new age interpretation, popular and silly in my opinion. You find in religion escapism from the harsh reality of the world - the fact that, so far, it IS real. You accused others of being weak, well, you are too. Your belief are not genuine, but come from the need to think that the world isn't as real as one might think. But the world IS real, sorry. You wish it weren't.
@BookOfFlaws not everything the mind perceives is true. If you drink absynth and see the sky green, you are mistaken, the sky is still blue. Mistakes of the mind exist. not everything it thinkg is real. The mind is deluded. This is what Buddha repeated many times, and YOU didn't get it. So sotp talking to me like you know it all. YOU DON'T KNOW IT ALL, I HAVE SAID IT BEFORE AND I WILL REPEAT IT because it's true. A major truth you don't seem to understand.
@duckotaco and if you know everythign and have understood the vedas perfectly, well I am not stupid to not think that, you'll have to prove it. Until that moment it is perfectly good that I know that you don't know, that you are fallible like any human being.
Then later, I began to read the Bhagavad-Gita. That is, actually reading it instead of accepting some Baha'i "treatment" of it in which some quote was selectively lifted that appeared to be "in agreement" with some Baha'i idea. I found that it was loaded with ideas that I knew nothing at all about, and neither did the Bahai's. The whole theory of "karma yoga," for example, or its references to meditation techniques. It's full of vital religious ideas not part of the Baha'is lexicon.
@BookOfFlaws The ancient Vedas and the Gita are THE religious scriptures, and I doubt they'll ever be surpassed - the Vedas are the religion, and the wisdom of mankind, the spiritual way for people of all races. The Gita talks directly to the spirit. Now THAT is the voice of God, to me.
"The ancient Vedas and the Gita are THE religious scriptures, and I doubt they'll ever be surpassed - the Vedas are the religion, and the wisdom of mankind, the spiritual way for people of all races."
I have a lot of agreement. I am astounded by the fact that the Upanishads are highly coded, and directed primarily to yogic adepts, the only ones who can really understand them. Every time I read them (daily) I am blown away anew, and I have been penetrating this stuff for years.
@BookOfFlaws "and directed primarily to yogic adepts, the only ones who can really understand them."
myth to me, not truth. Everyone wants a sense of exclusiveness. Reality is that everything that matters is attainable by literally ANYONE. Exclusivity does not exist. No kind of person is "better" than another and no person is luckier than another.
Myth is truth if you make it so. Truth bubbles in one's exterior world-dream as a reflection of one's inner truth. The Upanishads, and non-dualistic Vedanta, consider ALL HISTORY to be myth. (Including what your childhood was like, etc.)
@duckotaco -- Is this the same poster who wrote this? --
"The ancient Vedas and the Gita are THE religious scriptures, and I doubt they'll ever be surpassed - the Vedas are the religion, and the wisdom of mankind, the spiritual way for people of all races. The Gita talks directly to the spirit. Now THAT is the voice of God, to me."
One post patently contradicts the other. Not that it matters. Yes, you must be tired.
"The Gita talks directly to the spirit. Now THAT is the voice of God, to me."
I felt the same when I began really reading the Gita. And that was the Mascaro version (Penguin) which is not very accurate. Definitely the voice of God.
Realize though that scriptures are part of your own world-projection, maybe the best part, but new ones can arise according to your developing karma. For me it's: 1) Words of Nityananda, 2) The Upanishads, and 3) The Yoga-Sutra, sort of in that order.
"That is why religion IS different from individual spirituality. "
It is absurd to take the position (popular tom, I know) that "spirituality" is disconnected from religion. There is a close link between the two. When men get spiritual knowledge, religions form around them. Religion is the guidebook they leave (or that grows up) about how others can have their same experience and knowledge. Attacking religion but praising "spirituality" is like "I love travel but hate roads, maps, and signs."
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The whole Baha'i knowledge
On life-after-death
A pop singer sang
In "The Kingdom of Abha"
It's just a kid's song
And she just made it up
But it'll just have to do
In your world-religion dumb
SectsOfBahaisDotCom 3 days ago
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Don't look to him for anything! He was a very hard and cruel man.
The best Baha'i sects are the Reform Baha'is and the Aqdasi Bahai's.
SectsOfBahais●com/reform.html
Aqdasi●Org
These are much more true to the Baha'i Founders and the original scriptures.
OneWorldBore 4 days ago
Happy Grandpa! Cute old man.
javedmahmood 5 days ago
From these comments it seems you have never read more than one book from the Baha'i Writings,I have no idea where you get your information from.There is information on reincarnation, (you would not approve),your previous life,next life,heaven, hell, paradise, astrology etc. Baha'i women are not put in a separate room or kept out of the kitchen (we would like that bit) during our period, God forbid.
I would need 20 yrs to understand the Upanishads, 'There's a religion for all types' is true.
waiotahi52 5 days ago in playlist Liked videos
Don't try to get in too deep, kid. (It would take an average Baha'i 10-20 years to begin to understand the content of the Upanishads.)
BookOfFlaws 5 days ago
That's good stuff indeed. The Upanishads are rich. (I'm well aware that you have no clue what any of that means.)
If you don't have any information in the Baha'i Faith about the nature of reincarnation and how various births are attained at the transition, that's fine. You at least have your rule about what sort of ring you have to wear when your you're planted in the cemetary plus a chant for your women to do during their periods. There's a religion for all types.
BookOfFlaws 5 days ago
"We may weep for ourselves, but should be glad for those who've passed on."
This is heartless. Let the grieving weep. Don't tell them to be glad about anything. They don't know the state or condition of that person. I despise what you just said.
"yes expression is good"
But your "Most Holy Book" admonishes you Baha'is to "not weep in calamities." It also says in your "Hidden Words" "Fear not abasement, neither sigh nor weep." You have quite a few statements like this in your "scriptures."
BookOfFlaws 5 days ago
@BookOfFlaws 3. O SON OF BEING!
If poverty overtake thee, be not sad; for in time the Lord of wealth shall visit thee. Fear not abasement, for glory shall one day rest on thee.
Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words
waiotahi52 5 days ago
Baha'is, by contrast, will ocassionally jabber, with some slight self-consciousness, about a nebulous "abha kingdom." But don't ask a Baha'i for any details about it. In fact, I think that the most details ever provided, by Baha'is, about the "Abha Kingdom" (heaven) were provided by some Los Angeles singer who wrote a song where she came up with ideas about it straight out of her head. (A Baha'i children's album w/Bill Sears.) That's probably the most elaborate Baha'i teaching on heaven! Funny.
BookOfFlaws 5 days ago
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waiotahi52 5 days ago in playlist Liked videos
"The view on death is like a person being born into heaven. "
Baha'is have basically zero information about heaven, or the various heavens, or how to think of the heavens. Baha'is basically avoid this topic because their religion offers so little here. The other religions are far more sophisticated. They list grades and states of heaven, and finally consider them to be all lacking; mere transient states. Vedanta says anything involving "perceivables" and experiences is not the final goal.
BookOfFlaws 5 days ago
@BookOfFlaws How do the other religions know?
waiotahi52 5 days ago
@BookOfFlaws Do you mean stuff like this?
And Kitra said: All who depart from this world (or this body) go to the moon. In the former, (the bright) half, the moon delights in their spirits; in the other, (the dark) half, the moon sends them on to be born again. Verily, the moon is the door of the Svarga world (the heavenly world)
Upanishads
You believe the Upanishads to be correct don't you? You refer to them
waiotahi52 5 days ago in playlist Liked videos
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Funerals specifically are an interesting mix.
I guess SO! The Baha'i Faith has a great deal of emphasis on funerals and burial rules. There is more content in your "Most Holy Book" addressing funerals and burial than anything about...
...genetic engineering, euthanasia, pornography, abortion, masturbation, miscegenation, industrialization, pollution, and farming...
combined!! Coffins of crystal and rare hardwoods. And that's supposed to be guidance to last us a thousand years.
BookOfFlaws 5 days ago
"All things change...wealth is followed by poverty, and poverty followed by wealth for example."
It's a basic teaching of Yoga, Hinduism, and Buddhism but noticeably missing from the Baha'i Faith. The better religions have a direct approach to killing out the sorrow and pain associated with transience, but Baha'is don't even address this fundamental metaphysical problem. The other religions advise detachment from phenomena. But Baha'si are obsessed by their buildings.
BookOfFlaws 5 days ago
@BookOfFlaws 52. O SON OF MAN!
Should prosperity befall thee, rejoice not, and should abasement come upon thee, grieve not, for both shall pass away and be no more. (Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)
waiotahi52 5 days ago
"We do express our emotions, but we shouldn't cling to them."
Your "Most Holy Book" states that you are not supposed to express emotion during calamities. Why don't you follow your Most Holy Book.
BookOfFlaws 5 days ago
"Moderation in all things." I'd rather have a religion that has intensity, focus, and keenness, myself. Is that why you Baha'is have a fast that's not really a fast and does not give the benefits of fasting? Is it why you Baha'is seem no better than anybody else in this trash heap world? Meditation, the heart of the better religions like Hinduism and Buddhism, requires intense focus. So I guess you people will never know much about those things. The best things come from focus and intensity.
BookOfFlaws 5 days ago
Nice song...
raj5reds 1 month ago
Ya Bahaullah Abha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I love you,all of you Baha'is.And the rest of the mankind.
Gixxiemoto 1 month ago 2
I love it so mch.
rtaghdiri 1 month ago
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Hi you two Just need to share this. I have a friend staying,and every so often he comes and has a look at these comments. Now, he went to various churches for a bit, and came out an atheist.When he read your comments he said your sort of stuff is what put him off. He read your stuff, then the Writings,he read you,he read the Writings. He said he can see the validity of this Faith,that there is a God,(again) and now it makes sense to him, and this 'Baha'i Stuff' is ok
Keep up the good work
waiotahi52 1 month ago
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duckotaco 1 month ago
I have some unanswered questions for you bahies today. Here is one:
B-u-L says in your "Most Great Book" the following:
"Neither show grief nor joy in times of calamity."
Questions: Is this approach to life psychologically healthy? Is it natural? Do Baha'is teach this stoicism (not crying during calamities) to their children, too? do Baha'is try not to cry, then, at funerals? Other views are that expression of emotion can be natural, purgative, and healthy for individuals.
Please explain.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws you sound uninformed this time...that is not in the Aqdas, that is the Hidden Words. I find that principle very healthy indeed. He is pointing out a common way recommended by wise people during history, to find EQUANIMITY in all situations. Baha'u'llah knew the nature of suffering very well and brilliantly overcame it.
He is not recommending to NOT HAVE EMOTION. Further in the sentence he recommends a "half way", just like Buddha did. Bahaullah is just buddist there.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco once again you show how much your understanding of eastern philosophy is a mere facade, mere theatre, and not substantial or deep. Your understanding is indeed limited.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws ON THE OTHER HAND, Abdu'l Baha (the video is about him, let's not forget) in facts said some things that didn't appear very psicologically healthy to me, and I remember that was pretty much at the same time when I began exploring buddhism, finding health in it.
I don't remember what it was of Abdu'l Baha. But I did find some sayings that were not absolute and sort of dangerous in my opinion, in terms of mental health. Also some S.Effendi stuff
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco Independent Search of Truth is the first principle of the Baha'i Faith. If there is a an item that you seems not quite right whether in a Baha'i literiture or gathering, you should first bring it up and ask the question. Often there is a lack of adequate information or a misunderstanding that causes doubys in our mind. Please discuss and search about any specific subject with a knowladgable Bahai, or search the Baha'i Writings and your questions will be answered. Don't give up easy.
Roya9T 1 week ago
@BookOfFlaws Stoicism isn't really tought, no. Rather the idea of moderation in all things...including emotional extremes. We do express our emotions, but we shouldn't cling to them. All things change...wealth is followed by poverty, and poverty followed by wealth for example. Funerals specifically are an interesting mix. The view on death is like a person being born into heaven. We may weep for ourselves, but should be glad for those who've passed on. yes expression is good
aaronlee75 1 week ago
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duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco After much 'meaningfull dialogue' with the devine fellow I have come to the conclusion that this Faith really is correct. Every time he says something about it, and you had a small part in it, I would check out the writings. That is one reason he could spout so much and I struggled a bit to keep up. But the Writings make so much sense when compared with his opinion.
When I read about Abdu'l-Baha. Amazing stuff. I may well convert,but not just yet;-)
As-Salāmu `Alaykum
waiotahi52 1 month ago
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I request that you to cease posting my phone number in YouTube threads, cease sending me emails, and if you can manage, cease addressing me or conversing with me in threads.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
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BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
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duckotaco 1 month ago
No, I don't like stalkers. I also don't think you should be posting my phone number on YouTube threads from your anonymous little YouTube account. I have your IP from that email you sent me, and I will complain both to YouTube and any other necessary authorities about your harassment.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws The authorities will ask: what harassment. If somebody harassed the other I think that would be you, no? You gave me your phone number. You publish it publicly all over the web. Stop being a joke, Julian. I wish you were Assange, a more accurate atheist Julian.
Why don't you fight more worthy opponents? I am not even an opponent. I have not opposed you much. I have just expressed my opinion. When will you stop being nonsensically aggressive?
duckotaco 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws Thanks for the hilarious nonsense Julian, it was somehow surprising.
Now, if you kindly ask me to remove that comment with your phone number, I will. You can't remove it, I can. You're not omnipotent.
Ask and you'll be given. If you don't ask, you will not be given.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws I have deleted that comment, because I had the feeling that you actually liked it in its controversy. But it is not in my interest to satisfy your desires.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws How come you didn't see that coming? Tarot cards let you down? Stars not quite in line that day? Hell I thought I could get down and dirty, I am a learner against this guy. Well done duck.
waiotahi52 1 month ago
@waiotahi52 -- See what coming? Make sense.
"Tarot cards"? I've never owned any tarot cards and wouldn't know what to do with them. (Shows how limited Baha'is are in their knowledge about anything outside their limited and small 'religious' culture. One of the things that made me sick of them.) I have no interest in what duck taco thinks or does. Just interested in bringing out the truth about this dishonest and silly religion. I am enjoying myself heartily.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened" - Churcill
it's duckotaco, not duck taco, Julian Pee.
Anyway, his about tarots was a quite correct remark on your superstitious activity with astrology, that sure is superstition and it's dishonest and silly that you steal money from people that way. You simply can't teach baha'is honesty. I mean, maybe you can, but I can teach you too.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco I'm not suggesting that astrology in itself is useless...just the way you use it is just an american coverting ANYTHING into money, don't know if with success or not. Americans should stop obsessing about money - your economy is collapsing anyway, so prepare to a life without astronomic clients. Plan B Julian, plan B.
duckotaco 1 month ago
Looks like I have a Baha'i stalker now.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws you wish somebody stalked you. You stalk people and make them feel unconfortable by visiting their homes for your ridiculous astronomy joke business. Fuck off. If the bahai faith is a joke then you are ten times a joke.
duckotaco 1 month ago
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Twice he fussed here bec. I didn't respond to his email, getting snitty over it. I deleted a few emails tonight, noticed his full of misspelled words and no punctuation, told him I don't respond to ill writing or rude people. Just deleting emails. Now look at the post he makes: One designed to look make it seem I was initiating communication. What a snake.
I didn't realize Baha'is had become dishonest, slippery little eels since my years in the B. Faith. And they used to be into literacy.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
Now he's telling the world about his sex life and sex vices, and referring to his own defecation again.
I want to point out, to all who read this thread, that this fellow is the son of two Baha'i parents and was raised as a Baha'i.
There ya go.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
My parents taught me to never swear and to care about form. I rejected all this because I am not a testicle as you are. Looking and sounding educated has nothing to do with BEING educated. You look and sound educated but still you're a piece of shit. Like many other people. I am much more educated than you. And I do my job at AAA level and I'm not a mediocre man, writer and musician and fake spiritualist a you are. Enough now! I dont want to offend you further, thats not the point.
duckotaco 1 month ago
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BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws you fuckin' idiot, this is mostly lie but it doesn't matter. What matters here is that I come from Italy, and if you know an italian with better english than mine, let me know, you idiotic american testicle. People much more cultured than you are and with better control of the language than your mediocre usage are usually impressed by my english, fuckin' arrogant tool. Shut the fuck up now.
The other remarks are just as stupid as you.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws by email did not lack PUNCTUATION, even though it was quickly written without attention to form because that's what online communication is about, FUCK FORM you fuckin' old man.
second, you did try to communicate with me now after I couldn't care less. I sent you that email a week ago, if you don't reply right away it's GONE! and then I got to know your stupid thinking here, I don't care about you replying now. You lose. Go away.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws now, since you care so much about form, you should be informed that this usage of youtube comments of yours is against any sort of netiquette common people are used to. You don't know much about how to communicate with this tool. So, now you know, that this knd of exchange should be PRIVATE. You have problems with discerning PRIVATE from PUBLIC. If you think they're the same thing FUCK YOU. The sex vices thing was a JOKE, man without a sense of humour.
duckotaco 1 month ago
Like I told you, kid. Don't send me your stupid illiterate emails. I won't respond to them.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws you have serious problems.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws I don't want you to send emails to me!!! You did that! I don't give a fuck about them! Leave me alone you perv!
duckotaco 1 month ago
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duckotaco 1 month ago
Boof Of Flaws is a fuckin' asshole and liar.
duckotaco 1 month ago
Duck Taco also makes repetitive posts on Baha'i threads, saying the same things over and over, often just copy-pasting. He has no originality.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws this is the stupidest accusation you could do since it's what YOU do and what I don't do and what I suggested you not to do. I will now accuse you of masturbating twice a month, since it is what I do.
I'll also accuse you of shitting once a day, since you seem to hate the very idea of shit.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws you fool, if you think I'm gonna begin to talk to you via email you're wrong. Forget about it, I don't have time to waste. I said everything that had to be sayed about you, and that's all. Reality is the final judge.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco *said. english is not my first language, obviously.
duckotaco 1 month ago
Please ban Duck Taco for being a foul-mouthed little punk.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws people like you who think those who don't perceive him as a spiritual master are "punks", are fuckin' arrogant and deluded.
People like you who think reality doesn't exist and that everything the mind perceives is the reality, are fuckin' new age hippies of my ass.
people like you who think they know the Vedas, don't.
People like you who think they're better than others, are inferior to others.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco People like you simply don't perform well as gurus, which obviously is their ego's greatest desire. People like you Julian fail to understand the importance and wisdom of being and humble and transmitting humility, something Abdul Baha knew how to do well, even though maybe he wasn't perfect - and he doesn't have to be. Sure you have to learn his humility. Until that moment, forget about being a guru. Your philosophy too is full of flaws and imperfect.
duckotaco 1 month ago
Please ban BookOfFlaws so he's encouraged to have a blog instead of spamming youtube videos.
duckotaco 1 month ago
Baha'is like to say "we're not political." Yet in reality their whole teaching program looks, in these days, like nothing but a racial and culture program, indeed a political program. "One world government." "Multiculturalism." "Advocacy of science." (Opposite the founders.) "Feminism." Where the hell did the religion part of the Bahai Faith go? Like I said, it's just Marxism for naive Whites to make themselves feel O.K. after watching too much TV and getting afflicted with White Guilt syndrome.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
It is with greatest disgust that I observe that Baha'is not only don't understand or appreciate this aspect of their religion, they actually reject and disavow it. Just one of many demonstrations that what's called "the Baha'i Faith" is far from its origins and founding scriptures, and that it's nothing but an intellectual program.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
So, the real stunning thing then, is the fact that Baha'is don't have this element, or don't comprehend it, or they reject it (as the Baha'i below rejects 'devotion to the founder' as a Top-10 item) -- notwithstanding the fact that this element is heavily present in their writings. In fact Baha'i prayers, too, incredibly bhakti-oriented. They are dripping with the devotion. Baha'i prayers are nothing if not exercises teaching Baha'is what the devotional attitude is like.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
The human feeling of devotion (and emotion generally) are the highest aspect of man. Not his ratiocinations or mere thoughts. God wants us to cry out to Him and have devotion for Him, just as a man wants a woman who has feeling/devotion for him, not cool and aloof agreement. ("I agree in these cool Baha'i 'principles'"). Devotion is the heart of real religion. Christ gave the "highest law" the same way: "To love the lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul."
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
This is one of the many ways that, as I've stated before, Baha'is don't understand their own religion, focusing on non-essentials and invented imperatives, while ignoring the real gold of their religion. (Guru-bhakti, chanting.) Or considering those latter things unimportant or nuisances. It is an aspect of Baha'is being religiously uneducated. The point of a "manifestation of God" is, in fact, to help us cultivate and focus devotional feelings Godward.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
Now, anybody familiar with the best aspects of Hinduism, Yoga, and Buddhism know about the principle of bhakti, or devotion, sometimes called guru-bhakti. In Hinduism and yoga this "bhakti" or devotion is often extolled as the highest and most reliable path to God-knowledge and samadhi. They would look at such Baha'i writings and say, "Oh, bhakti. This is clearly bhakti. The Baha'i Faith has a strong bhakti element. How nice." But notice that the Baha'i was simply embarrassed about it.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
So when I placed "devotion to the founder" as one of the "Top 10" items in the B. Faith, I was not mocking or belittling the BF with that item. That was, in fact, one of the respectable items. But notice how the Baha'i reacted. He was embarassed about it. His response was, essentially, 'No, we are not that devoted to Baha'u'llah. We only have 2 days honoring him.' Follow along carefully.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
"Dress my raven locks" -- and this is just one of many Baha'u'llah quotes of this nature, is clearly an inducement to devotion. Indeed, the Hidden Words are loaded with this sort of devotional content self-directed by Baha'u'llah at himself, as an admonition to Baha'is about how they should be toward him.
Now, the really sad thing is that this is, in fact, the best aspect of the Baha'i Faith (along with the chanting of the Bahai' mantra), but Baha'is (like the one below) don't know this.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
One that comes to mind from memory, from the "Hidden Words," is this one:
"The comb, too, have I given thee that thou mayest dress My raven locks, and not lacerate My throat."
This one is a perfect example because it contains both his repeated admonitions to worship him (have devotion) combined with his continually voiced "I'm so persecuted, I'm so wronged!" message. Anybody vaguely familiar with Baha'i writings will no well I speak the truth about this.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
From this "Hidden Words," called by some Baha'i Teachers the book of 2nd importance in the :BF, it is clear as the sun that the Baha'i Faith has a strong devotional element, and that the believers are supposed reverential devotion toward Baha'u'llah. He himself speaks (of himself) this way, and a lot of his lines are fulminations and condemnations of others (from kings to the followers) for not revering him adequately. Even in the Hidden Words.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
His multitude of superlative terms for himself, such as "Blessed Beauty," "Day Star of Splendor," and so on are just one of the evidences of this. (I might pull out a list of such references to himself from their "Most Holy Book" a bit later.) Even in the "Hidden Words," which is supposed to be the "essence of all religion," contains perhaps up to a quarter of its verses are self-glorifications by Baha'u'llah, often speaking of himself in the 3rd person.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
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Waio differs with my listing "Beauty and glory of the founder; Baha'is should worship the founder devotionally." (As a top 10 item.) As proof, he says there are only two "holy days" associated with Baha'u'llah. But I was talking about a more important assay, and that is the content of their scriptures. There is, quite possibly, no religious figure who extols himself so much, or regales so much his followers with the imperative to worship him.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
Waio says that Number 4 -- emphasis on getting along, institutions for deciding questions -- is incorrect. I was being generous to Baha'is here. Certainly there is an emphasis, across the Baha'i writings, on the idea of amity, harmony (so called "unity") and getting along with each other as well as other religionists. This kind of theme, further, is mentioned far more than "equality of men and women" or "harmony of science and religion." (Neither phrase exists in their founding writings.)
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
You say that item 2, the ,greatness of martyrdom,, is "not correct" as a "top 10" item in Baha'i. This is simple mendacity from you. Or perhaps you are not even familiar with your own writings. For every time any idea of "equality of men and women" (to give one example) is mentioned in Baha'i writings, martyrdom gets extolled perhaps 10 times. Even in the Hidden Words. On item 2, this Baha'i is simply telling lies.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
It just goes to show that Baha'is don't really like their founder & can't relate to him. Baha'is don't realize how much they are missing, in the religious realm, when even their so-called human personification of the divine is somebody they can't pray to or don't want to. Just one of the many sad things about your religion. But looking at his picture, I guess I understand.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
:Why not pray to your guru? It's odd that you wouldn't. The reason the Deity personifies Himself in a human form is so human beings have something to relate to. Anybody can communicate spiritually with anybody else, here even in the world. Why do you not wish to pray to Baha'u'llah? He is the "Blessed Beauty"! The "Dayspring of Munificence," etc. I pray to my guru, have prayed to Christ, and pray to God in other forms.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
You two sort it all out for a while, I am going to watch Tina Turner, inspires me to get fit
waiotahi52 1 month ago
Trying to ascertain "what really happened" in a "past" that is found to be constantly changing and movable like an alligator, is the kindergarten of religion. The religious adept chooses the past he pleases.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws these are fantasies, not truth to me. Spiritual people can end up too detached form realoty. reality exists. It is not true that if you think it then it's true. Lies exist, bullshit exists. You are mixing hindu wisdom with postmodern idiocy.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco -- Well, though you are unfortunately little-equipped for yoga (lacking faith as you do), I note that you do have faith in at least one thing: the past. (Nothwithstanding your daily evidence that the past continually changes.) See, you have faith after all. Just in dumb things. But it's a start.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws you have faith in dumb things. I am much more REASONABLE than you. You have abandoned reason. I am valuing Ayn Rand more now. Spirituality makes people detached from reality and deluded. I think you are detached from reality and deluded. Sorry. Some REASON would do good to you.
Reality is real. Your thoughts aren't. This is Buddha's message. You thinking that thoughts are real and reality is not is called INSANITY. If you think your thoughts are real but reality isnt
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco then you are insane, and nothing else. Spiritual, maybe. And insane.
REASON is supreme over all things. You are a human being, and when you give up reason, you ruin yourself and society.
REASON. REASON. REASON: Fuck your "spirit". REASON is the main manifestation of the spirit of a man.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco -- All humans live in their own personal reality. At night during your dreams you consider that reality. The Vedas teach that passing phenomena are not Reality. You are just attached to a certain sort of coarse, seemingly impervious (yet transitory) "reality." Your "reality" is just what you are attached to. (Such as you being attached to particular past stories, even though other people continually change them on you.)
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws there is something called objective reality. If you don't believe in that we're not going to talk anymore. If you don't believe in objective reality then you have to piss off, you'll be insane and I'll be reasonable, and it ends that way.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws the sky is blue. If it's a dream that it is blue, it is a real dream and if you think it's not "real", then you're insane by wordly standard, and you have to be hospitalized, spiritual or not.
duckotaco 1 month ago
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BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
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You are uneducated. It's the Upanishads that teach that the creative principle (Isvara, etc.) is "lord of the past, present, and future," having complete power over all three. (Even your own daily world, as noted, changes your past regularly.). Further the Upanishads themselves teach (esp. the Mundakya) that the past is a mental projection like all the rest. In any case, I won't discuss religion with a fellow who uses profanity while doing so. So this will be my last post on this.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws the past cannot be changed. The present and the future can. I don't believe in this kind of new age silliness. This is not spirituality, but fantasy.
duckotaco 1 month ago
I am going to walk to the store. It was a good discussion. I encourage your continued interest in the yoga of India. It would be fun fo you to read Autobiography of a Yogi, and also "Miracle of Love."
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
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Baha'is get that same power-lust: To stand up there, maybe with funny little reading glasses, and give a talk and be "Continental Kahuna." So, the avid ones try to get a doctorate or become a doctor. Because, of course, you can't get to be a Continental Mojo without having "Doctor" after your name. No God-knowledge is needed, no insight into scriptures. Just be good loking, get a PhD, and be a good talker. (Some jokes helps.) Then you can be a covert idol and rock-star to guru-hungry Bahais.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
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BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
The organized Catholic church printed up little holy cards of saints doing the Anjoli Mudra (hands together, upraised to the face). So, I started doing that young. It was one of the most important things that ever happened to me. It later became associated with the lifting of the shakti up the spine, as it is supposed to do in yoga, and did for the Catholic saints. The org also provided me with malas for chanting (rosaries) and repetition of prayers. Highly significant.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
"see where religion fails? In this kind of game."
Religion does not "fail" because of heirarchy or organization. It was because the Catholic Church created beautiful, mystical places devoted to God (the sanctuaries) that I got in touch with God in the form of space (akasa) as described in the Upanishads. My original spiritual food was sitting in the quiet, reverberant Catholic churches, alone. These would not have existed without organization, structure. They provided spiritual experence.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws this is not a good reason to respect churches. Churches are beautiful, as much as a tree you could have sitten under. This is not a reason for me to respect religious structures. I do not respect religious structures.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws "Religion does not "fail" because of heirarchy or organization."
obviously it fails and will always fail because of that! No two individuals can ever agree forever with each other. When you put two individuals together, there will be conflict if they're honest. That is why the bahai community is not a good environment for spiritual progress, as you yourself said! The reason why you and me find buddism and hinduism deeper is because they DONT have that kind of structure
duckotaco 1 month ago
The list would look like that. "Equality of men and women," based on the actual incidence of statements in the literature, would not make the list. (It's not even a teaching, per se, in those words.) "Harmony of science and religion" could not make the list.
I realized that the BF was developed for westerners as a marketing package for Marxist-influenced progressives. That disgusted me. With my yogic studies I appreciated the austere tone of the Aqdas. Yet it was too Islamic & primitive for me.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws agreed, too islamic and primitive. Same for me. Hinduism and Buddhism take more care of the individual, that is where God is.
Thus, religion and spirituality MUST be individual, not communal. Masses of people will never own the truth. Only individuals.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco the individual has a soul and a brain. There is nothing like a collective brain, and a collective soul? Hhhm, what matters is that communities have always oppoed the brilliance and best in individuals, because that brilliance DISTURBS the peace of communities.
Life is, to me, a war of the individual against groups.
Groupthink is always bad. If groups have a soul, it's a bad one.
duckotaco 1 month ago
If you hired 20 scholars, non-Baha'i, to study the three most important Baha'i scriptures and come up with a "Ten Basic Principles" list, they would come up with something like this:
TEN BASIC PRINCIPLES OF THE BAHA'I FAITH
1) Beauty and glory of the founder; Baha'is should worship the founder devotionally.
2) Greatness of martyrdom
3) Say a special chant once every day (95 times)
4) Emphasis on getting along, institutions for deciding questions.
5) Commonality in religions...
Etc.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws all things that sound like the community dictatorship over the individual. being the individual the house of God, and not the community, the community is against god. Organized religions are against God (whom is in the individual).
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco sound like the typical dictatorship of any community over the individual*
duckotaco 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws There are 2 Holy Days for Bah'u'ullah. There are no prayers to Him, only to God. Ascension of Baha'u'llah The Birth of Baha'u'llah.
2 is not correct.
3 is correct, Alláh-u-Abhá, 95 times, done every day
4 is incorrect
5 is correct
waiotahi52 1 month ago
Around that time, too, the BF came out with a new, different translation of the "worthy of study" comment that made it sound like astrology was a bad thing. I began to see how closed-minded and fearful Baha'is were about so many things.
-- Another was starting to wonder: "Why is there no Aqdas yet? Did all the Arabic translators die off? Then finding a copy and finding it HAD been translated long ago, and realizing WHY they had suppressed it. (Would have made BF look bad.)
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
It's the deeply religious people who get the highest spiritual knowledge. It takes rigor, intensity, faith, and technique. These come from religion. Who would do austerities or fast if religion did not tell them it was good? Who would practice meditation of religion did not point it out and advocate it? When somebody says "I'm spiritual but not religious" (I hear it all the time), I just know, "Oh, they don't get much spiritual knowledge. They want to be lazy. They're not sure of anything."
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws Laziness isn't good, but "not being sure of anything" is good to me. Very good. It is a good way to avoid delusion and error. One must keep a "don't know" mind for all of his life. Constant curiosity, constant knowledge of NOT KNOWING! Do you have that.
And by the way, if you live around San Francisco, do you know that guy Jose Stevens? I get the feeling you have met him
duckotaco 1 month ago
"Laziness isn't good, but "not being sure of anything" is good to me."
For seeker stages, yes. For development faith and certitude are even better. Faith is unconscious knowledge, your expression of divine will. One must get certitude or faith that meditation might have value before he'll undertake it. Ram Das, who I dislike, said a good thing: At the beginning is eclecticism/search. At the end is enlightenment. In between is "lineage" -- some definite path you throw yourself into.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws I don't believe in "faith", I believe in reason and reason only. In this we differ.
Faith and passion can be popular, but only a narrow elite of people are endowed with reason - Goethe
duckotaco 1 month ago
Why would anyone, having spent years in this Faith, a Faith based on the assumption that all the Prophets of old, including Krishna, have been Manifested in Baha'u'llah, and having even a rudimentary knowledge of this, then want to be a Hindu? Or a Buddhist? If the founders of these religions have said that They or someone will return, revealing all truth,why doubt them and go to their old Religion? Strange
waiotahi52 1 month ago
@waiotahi52 yes because it's mroe complex, or rather more simple, than that. If bahaullah said that he was teh promised one, and founds a religion with 6 million followers or less, it doesn't mean that he really was the promised one. he was a man, and he could be wrong. It is not so crazy to not be a baha'i. Also, hinduism and buddhism truly are deeper, and in many points they are in conflict, and not agreement, with bahai
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco -- He was the promised one for those who want him to be their promised one. Everybody gets to have a "promised one" if they long for that for a spell.
"Also, hinduism and buddhism truly are deeper, and in many points they are in conflict, and not agreement, with bahai"
Oh, definitely. That is right. Both things. Seems like you have studied a bit. One of the purposes of my posting here is to show how Baha'i is indeed in conflict with most of the best things in Hinduism.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
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BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws Oh wow, I know a Birkland, probably a son of this AuxB. I despise the whole of bahai gerarchy. That is a game of power and has nothing to do with spirituality. see where religion fails? In this kind of game.
The baha'i community is against intellectuals and artists, we know that. These two figures are too creative and dangerous for the status quo. Too bad it's their job to destroy the status quo. Therefore, most intellectuals and artists have left the bahai faith.
duckotaco 1 month ago
"I despise the whole of bahai gerarchy. That is a game of power and has nothing to do with spirituality."
Yes and no. It is a version of religion. There need to be many different religions. In a way, Baha-u was trying to think like a westerner in formulating his religion. Then it appealed to westerners adapted to the control structures of the European Catholic church. Catholic types really take to the BF for that reason. It's an "organized" control approach to religion that westerners like.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
Within such religions and control structures pure spiritual knowledge can be got; just as many blissed-out mystic Catholic saints arose within the safe and ordered confines of the Catholic church. (The monastics, etc.) The sufies tell an analogy of the tree that grows great and large, but also gets rigid. Many creatures can come live in it, etc.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws I don't see where the control structures are good.
duckotaco 1 month ago
They build sanctuaries for worship, seclusion; make those available to monastics; distribute the luminous words of the saints, hold Sunday worship in which bhakti (devotional) feelings are stimulated (with choirs and devotional singing, further lifting the kundalini). My guru's guru, Yukteswar, was "organized" enough to have a place where his monks could meditate, get fed, have a discipline life, etc. May as well say: "I don't think hospitals should be organized or have any authorities."
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws so you agree that the game of power is NOT spirituality...where is the "no"
duckotaco 1 month ago
One of the things I became aware of, in the Baha'i Faith, was the way that Baha'is are actually into power thrills. In genuine religion, God-contact gives the thrills; thrills coming from worldly power or control are just same-a-usual human addictive life. Not that a holy man would not have tasks, duties, things to do, responsibilities. But I perceived how into power Baha'is are. For example, they get bliss dreaming of world conquest and seeing their beautiful impressive buildings.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws -- In the deeper religion one gets bliss from meditaiton and God-contact, and that is the goal. Not from "doing things" or "fixing the world." He may do those things from duty, but that is not where his bliss derives. The Hidden Words actually contain guidance of this nature. There is, also, a quite extraordinary statement that Baha'u'llah says, in the Aqdas, about the Baha'i chant, implying it's the real center of Baha'i life. But Baha'is have no clue about it.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws you have said this 892728227272 times already. could you please tell me WHY you reapeat it. I am not going to listen to you if you repeat what you have already said.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco -- If you can't bear any repetition, don't read my posts.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws we are just from different cultures and generations, man. I am not used to all this repetition and a few other things. But I have said where I completely agree, that's what matters.
"I think it's evil and deluded to try to "organize the world" or control the world through one org. "
It's not deluded if you can. It's deluded if you're the bahai house of justice, which is barely known to the world.
but Rockefeller can, can aid a world governement, and he's doing it.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws the power htrills exist because a hierarchy and clergy exists. That is why you shouldn't have a beuroucracy apart from what is essential for basic organization. The existance of a hierarchy will automatically translate into power games and thrills. As much as it exists, people will put their egos into it
duckotaco 1 month ago
I think it's evil and deluded to try to "organize the world" or control the world through one org. However, kingdoms exist. Human beings want kingdoms to exist. Kingdoms are places of some order and law that make higher culture & higher communal experience possible. In Hinduism there is no overarching "Hindu church" that tries to control everything. Instead, there are gurus. But the sat-guru acts like a king in his realm. He'll organize his work however, according to his predilection.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws and by the way all these "rants" would find a good place in a site called bahairants-dot-com, in case you don't know it. I recommend it, especially the comments section.
duckotaco 1 month ago
Another thing is how Baha'is have these "leaders who are not leaders," "personalities who are not supposed to be personalities." I mean, of c., the "Continental" and "Auxiliary" types. They become the objects where Baha'is project their desires for power and glamor. It is very interesting. Humans have a need for gurus and glamorous spiritual leaders. But that's not "ok. So Baha'is project that need onto these persons covertly. The big shots play along, getting a mythic status. It's very funny.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws it is amazing how people today conversate by talking on their own, with no attention whatsoever to the person in front of them; there's no communication, we're all alone, self-absorbed douchebags as I said before. If you weren't as self absorbed you would get a number of advantages, you cannot possibly think that there is nothing wrong in your behavior at all. Be insecure, otherwise, you're not very smart. Smart people are insecure by default.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco -- I'll read your posts when I get to them. I can't read your posts while also typing my own, young fool. Clean up your mouth and stop talking about objects put up into their privates and maybe I'll read a few more of yours and respond.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
My doubts about BF starting from several events:
-- Seeing Steven Birkland (AuxB) walk out to protest a Baha'i musician for teaching the group to chant the B. chant. (Too mystical.)
-- Realizing that the contents of the H. Words were profound, unexamined Sufi-like mystical content, then seeing Bahais considered it unimportant.
-- Discovering astrology was real, and worked. Then finding that Baha'is were nervous & shunned me for studying it, tho AB said it was "worthy of study."
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws ok wow you just copied and pasted the same post you wrote ten comments ago. God knows why you do that. But please keep going.
You need to wirite a book, I say. And go to bahairants-dot-com.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco which is a real site, not a joke! I'm nto insulting!
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco -- I don't believe I copy-pasted a duplicate post. If you'd like to show me where there are duplicate posts, I'll delete one. Or maybe you are just carping some more.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws that post I am fairly sure I read it just a little earlier. But forget it, I'm a bit tired now, maybe I'm wrong. goodnight
duckotaco 1 month ago
"Why would anyone, having spent years in this Faith...then want to be a Hindu? Or a Buddhist?"
Well, the way it happened with me was seeing Baha'is didn't seem to really have answers for a many things. (Reading the "Seth Material" was another catalyst.) Then, getting handed "Autobiography of a Yogi" and finding that the book dealt with a vast world of religion that was basically alien to Baha'i minds. Thus I restarted my seeking.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws going back only means going ahead. Modern non-thinkers don't wnat to know that.
duckotaco 1 month ago
That is true. It is astounding what eternal knowledge is found in the ancient texts. The past is one's own self-projection. If one wants to deposit knowledge for one's self, out in his external world-dream, he can script-write that it arise from any epoch. The neat and tidy "progression" idea Baha'is entertain does not comport with the wild nature of samsara. Besides, the old scriptures are far more sophisticated and profound than Baha'i writings. (I don't write here just for you.)
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
Pasts (which constantly change) are a malleable part of your exterior, transitory world-dream. Any story can come true for the human mind if he hankers after it enough. That is the knowledge in the Vedas which you claim to like.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
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@BookOfFlaws "Any story can come true for the human mind if he hankers after it enough."
That will mean that a LIE is CONFUSED by truth. It is not thatif you THINK it's true, then it is. The mind can do MISTAKES. It does all the time.
Faith is good but not when reason is completely abandoned.
There is no guarantee that you did truly understand the Vedas in their entirety. You a a human being, and you can be mistaken. You are not infallible. If you think so you're insane.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco -- The only truth is the Pure Consciousness. The entire created world is, in Upanishadic terms, a lie. The mind, and the Pure Consciousness, can generate and erect any transitory false thing it likes. That's in fact what you are continually doing. The only truth is in the power of the Pure Consciousness (Brahman) to externalize infinite phenomena. And that's all.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws the fact that the world is a "lie" is between many quotes in western terms. It is symbolical, not literal. Reality exists. The sky is blue for everyone. The whole of life could be a dream, ok, but you stil have to THINK it is real, otherwise you wouldn't wake up or eat. Being too detached from the dream that material reality is a silly idea. Also, if somebody kills you it is not you that created it, and if it's karma, fine, maybe. MAYBE, but theres no way to be sure
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco and I'm not going to be sure of anything I can't be sure of. Karma is THEORY, also reincarnation, I have no proof of them. Buddha wasn't sure of reincarnation. That is the way, the way of certainty/uncertainty. I don't want to endorse your full on detachment from reality because it's a dream. I find it counterproductive and useless to everything and everyone, and conducive to madness.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws so no, there are many things that are true and are facts, such like the fact that the sky is blue. If it's a dream, it's a collecitve dream, therefore you MUST think it is reality, or be hospitalized. We go nowhere as humanity if we don't agree on what is real and what is not. You are too impractical and detached from the world to me. Bahais too wordly? Maybe. But you are too much of the opposite. I want BALANCE
duckotaco 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws it is even possible that pasts constantly change, but not because you said so. It is an intruiguing idea I'm not going to say no to right away, but it is not true just because you said it.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws the world is not a "dream". I don't think Buddha really believed that, nor Krishna. This is a new age interpretation, popular and silly in my opinion. You find in religion escapism from the harsh reality of the world - the fact that, so far, it IS real. You accused others of being weak, well, you are too. Your belief are not genuine, but come from the need to think that the world isn't as real as one might think. But the world IS real, sorry. You wish it weren't.
duckotaco 1 month ago
The Vedas which you gush over and claim to like give a very, very high place to Faith. A primordial place.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws not everything the mind perceives is true. If you drink absynth and see the sky green, you are mistaken, the sky is still blue. Mistakes of the mind exist. not everything it thinkg is real. The mind is deluded. This is what Buddha repeated many times, and YOU didn't get it. So sotp talking to me like you know it all. YOU DON'T KNOW IT ALL, I HAVE SAID IT BEFORE AND I WILL REPEAT IT because it's true. A major truth you don't seem to understand.
duckotaco 1 month ago
@duckotaco and if you know everythign and have understood the vedas perfectly, well I am not stupid to not think that, you'll have to prove it. Until that moment it is perfectly good that I know that you don't know, that you are fallible like any human being.
duckotaco 1 month ago
I have been at the store.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
Then later, I began to read the Bhagavad-Gita. That is, actually reading it instead of accepting some Baha'i "treatment" of it in which some quote was selectively lifted that appeared to be "in agreement" with some Baha'i idea. I found that it was loaded with ideas that I knew nothing at all about, and neither did the Bahai's. The whole theory of "karma yoga," for example, or its references to meditation techniques. It's full of vital religious ideas not part of the Baha'is lexicon.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws The ancient Vedas and the Gita are THE religious scriptures, and I doubt they'll ever be surpassed - the Vedas are the religion, and the wisdom of mankind, the spiritual way for people of all races. The Gita talks directly to the spirit. Now THAT is the voice of God, to me.
duckotaco 1 month ago
"The ancient Vedas and the Gita are THE religious scriptures, and I doubt they'll ever be surpassed - the Vedas are the religion, and the wisdom of mankind, the spiritual way for people of all races."
I have a lot of agreement. I am astounded by the fact that the Upanishads are highly coded, and directed primarily to yogic adepts, the only ones who can really understand them. Every time I read them (daily) I am blown away anew, and I have been penetrating this stuff for years.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws "and directed primarily to yogic adepts, the only ones who can really understand them."
myth to me, not truth. Everyone wants a sense of exclusiveness. Reality is that everything that matters is attainable by literally ANYONE. Exclusivity does not exist. No kind of person is "better" than another and no person is luckier than another.
duckotaco 1 month ago
Myth is truth if you make it so. Truth bubbles in one's exterior world-dream as a reflection of one's inner truth. The Upanishads, and non-dualistic Vedanta, consider ALL HISTORY to be myth. (Including what your childhood was like, etc.)
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
@BookOfFlaws "Myth is truth if you make it so".
False.
duckotaco 1 month ago
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@duckotaco -- Is this the same poster who wrote this? --
"The ancient Vedas and the Gita are THE religious scriptures, and I doubt they'll ever be surpassed - the Vedas are the religion, and the wisdom of mankind, the spiritual way for people of all races. The Gita talks directly to the spirit. Now THAT is the voice of God, to me."
One post patently contradicts the other. Not that it matters. Yes, you must be tired.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
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"The Gita talks directly to the spirit. Now THAT is the voice of God, to me."
I felt the same when I began really reading the Gita. And that was the Mascaro version (Penguin) which is not very accurate. Definitely the voice of God.
Realize though that scriptures are part of your own world-projection, maybe the best part, but new ones can arise according to your developing karma. For me it's: 1) Words of Nityananda, 2) The Upanishads, and 3) The Yoga-Sutra, sort of in that order.
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago
"That is why religion IS different from individual spirituality. "
It is absurd to take the position (popular tom, I know) that "spirituality" is disconnected from religion. There is a close link between the two. When men get spiritual knowledge, religions form around them. Religion is the guidebook they leave (or that grows up) about how others can have their same experience and knowledge. Attacking religion but praising "spirituality" is like "I love travel but hate roads, maps, and signs."
BookOfFlaws 1 month ago