Self talks...I think that you're jumping around trying to remember details of your conversation with the LDS missionaries. Believing in Christ is not enough. You gotta believe & DO (DO is WORK) what Jesus wants you to do. The Bible says that even the devils believe in Jesus but they cannot DO what Jesus says. The Bible also says: "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of His Father; And then He shall reward EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS" Go figure!
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast." -Eph. 2:8-9
"He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit," -Titus 3:5
I apologize in advance that I don't have time to drag on an endless debate (I know how these things go), but I would hope you read the verses I've posted for you and read them as they are. To believe what you've posted on my video you must inevitably deny these words of Holy Scripture. Please... submit to the Word of God and stop trying to earn the grace Christ offers you. To try and pay Christ back for the gift He offers is to flush His death and resurrection down the toilet.
@Gospelenthusiast...If you wanna apologize...apologize to God by doing what His Son Jesus set up for you to follow. Which "Word of God" that you need me to submit to?...would that be "The Holy Bible"? and if so, You don't even comprehend the mysteries of God in it. The Bible tells us what Jesus said to follow & learn of Him, that means any of His Apostles' ideas or doctrines..Paul included. It seems that Protestants preach Paul's doctrines more than what Jesus Christ preached.
mormons are witnessing to others in many parts of the world THE WORD OF CHRIST...so-called that is.You are witnessing to Mormons.Now which church holds the TRUTH?NONE.
@sampuna..."Now which church holds the TRUTH?NONE" Exactly..all these Protestants knowingly are wasting their times preaching NO TRUTH at all but only hatreds...The LDS Church thru their missionary works publicly bear witness to the RESTORED TRUTH of Jesus the Christ...in other words, we do have GOD'S TRUTH whether you like it or not. Go figure!
Active Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter DAy Saints aka Mormons Know more about Jesus Christ then any one of any other religion... get your facts straight... the Lds Church is God's Kingdom once again restored to the Earth, the divinity of the origins and existence of the book of mormon is Proof of this...
The deity of Jesus Christ was decided upon by a vote . A few hundred church leaders gathered at Nicea in 325 AD. to vote on the matter. (the vote was loaded, because most of the opposing bishops were either KILLED or EXHILED or excluded!) Representation for the TRUTH about the Godhead was allowed by only a small fraction of those TRUE Christians...we lost the TRUTH then to the pagan trinity of man.
And you that will not partake of the goodness of God, and respect the words of the Jews, and also my words, and the words which shall proceed forth out of the mouth of the Lamb of God, behold, I bid you an everlasting farewell, for these words shall condemn you at the last day.
For what I seal on earth, shall be brought against you at the judgment bar; for thus hath the Lord commanded me, and I must obey. Amen
The Holy Ghost teaches us TRUTH ...it is revelation..we are instructed by a member of the Godhead..not by man's own learning..we LDS put our trust in God.
How would you try to show a Moslem that the Bible is the WORD of GOD?..one would need to have him/her READ it and PRAY about it..and it would be GOD in the end by the Holy Spirit that would convert that person..as is the case with the Book of Mormon.
Ignorant people like you are a by-product of your society and your prejudice
Now. I'm A Mormon. And I Believe In Being Born Again. Half Of You Who Knock The Church Have NEVER Stepped Foot Inside Of Our Church, Never Sat Down A Actually Read And Prayed About The Book Of Mormon. I Can Tel You Beyond A Sahdow Of A Doubt, I Have A Relationship With God And Jesus, And I'm Born Again, And Am On Way Way To Heaven. The Mormon Church Is Christian. Go Ahead And Tell Me Otherwise About Every Truth I Just Said...But You Won't Be Getting Another Word Out Of Me. Thanks. =]
Why do you write comments and then delete them? Have the courage to leave your words up man. Who knows they might convert someone to LDS.
Truth is something you can prove. Since the comments you made (then deleted) can not be proven you can not count them as truth. They are instead counted as FAITH.
Mormons are not Christians because they have different beliefs.
Jesus' own words on the false "christian" churches of men and thier CREEDS:
JS-H 1: 19
I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
“Ye STIFFNECKED and uncircumcised IN HEART and EARS, YE DO ALWAYS RESIST the HOLY GHOST: as your fathers did, SO DO YE.
Which of the PROPHETS have not your fathers PERSECUTED and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Who have RECIEVED the law BY THE DISPOSITION OF ANGELS, and have NOT KEPT IT”.
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou FOOL, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Why is it that false christianity needs analogies like an egg, a triangle, or water in its three phases to EXPLAIN thier 3-headed god?..can you point to just ONE place in the Bible where ANY of the prophets or apostles use these very analogies or ANY analogies for that matter to explain the GODHEAD?..well?
@Gospelenthusiast...JESUS DID?...What Jesus told Nicodemus to be born again even more puzzled & confused him, even today's Protestants. Jesus made it clear to all Nicodemuses that they MUST BE BAPTIZED to enter into the Kingdom of God.
Martin Luther & other Catholic apostates didn't but their followers decades later cooked up these ideas to organize a movement different from Protestantisms & today known as Born Again Protestants
Now be assured we Christians (at least gospelenthusiast and i) dont try to bruise any mormons we see. we love them enough to talk to them about what the Bible says about TRUE salvation and the TRUE Jesus. so why do you speak badly about "born agains"? Is it because we love you as well and therefore you must hate us?
marcopolo8765 you put up very offensive arguements here, as if my friend's video has struck a nerve! "spoken like a true follower of satan" really caught my attention as i was reading your comments. you also tried justifying the work of mormons as they give up two full years of their life in "ministry". now while THIS IS ADMIRABLE of them, what about the jehovah's witnesses? they print out more literature than even the mormons, so should we as "born agains" show them honor as well?
You mean the lord sent you LDS missionaires to show unto you the truth in the fully restored gospel. And you argued with them? Man i bet Christ was shaking his head in disbelief.
There was no arguing. It was a friendly conversation and we left on good terms. It's important though that they knew the whole of what the Bible teaches not just their favorite verses. Yeah I bet you're right...
Christ was shaking His head. Heretical teaching that says the cross wasn't enough really just carves the grace right out from what Christ did.
He probably sits on His throne asking, "Why does man feel the need to 'restore' his own self-righteousness to the freedom I provided?"
Self righteous. You really see acts of faith hope and charity as self righteous. Well I suppose to a born again. When they see people like missionairse who devote 2 full years of their life to serve the lord and give up all that they have even contact with there families. I can see how a born again would see that as self righteous. Well Jealousy and resentment anyway. But you can call it what you want to.
"...all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment" -Isaiah 64:6
"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy..." Titus 3:4-5
Adding any works of our own to salvation no matter how good... is ultimately an attempt to bribe God and deny the finished work of Christ. It's not about jealousy. It's a matter of solemn concern. Sacrifices are good, but not if we're hoping in them to help save us.
spoken like a true follower of satan. Only a wickedly bad person would not even have any desire to be good or to help others, to follow and commandments or examples from the bible at all. To only follow the desires of his own lust and still think that he is saved and do nothing for his own salvation. And hey dude why does it have to be about bribing God why cant good people just be good people cause they want to be? I know thats pretty hard for a born again to understand but really
Strong words. Zeal without knowledge can consume you and feed deception.
Please read what I say before replying. My ref. to works was purely regarding salvation. Works do characterize how believers live after being saved. That's what James teaches.
Consider your extreme words; "any, at all, only" These are are not my claims. Don't assume... ask me.
If for the purpose of salvation it's not just you wanting to do good works... it's paying God in deeds and implying Christ wasn't enough.
You know I have never once even met another Mormon that thinks they need to pay God in deeds for any reason. Your pre determined false assumptions of things you are not willing to find out for yourself about, is your biggest down fall. Speaking out about something that you don't have the mustard to find out for yourself about. well thats a close second. Cause its not only destroys your character but your creditably as well. You really might want to talk to a missionary. It might help.
James was talking to a group of new Christians. They were already saved. Context is everything. If you look at James 1:23 you'll see that Abraham BELIEVED God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness.
Our righteousness is as filthy rags before God (according to the bible). Nothing we do can justify us, but we are justified by Christ living in us and through us, and it is because of this that we do good works...not the other way around. Does anyone really believe we can work our way into heaven? Then salvation would be a reward, not a gift if that were so...and scripture clearly says that it is a GIFT FROM GOD
Those "filthy rags" works are the works of the Law of Moses. That's what people don't seem to realize, that when Paul speaks of grace vs. works, it's not the works of the Gospel, it's the works of the Law. which Mormons do NOT do. We do the works of the gospel, following the commandments of CHRIST, as we see them.
Paul speaks about this same thing in romans when he says "before men you are justified by works, by God you are justified by faith". People could only see Abraham's faith when he lifted the knife over Isaac's body, but God knew Abrahams heart before he even went up the mountain. the LDS church has it backwards. Look in Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by grace you have BEEN saved (past tense), through FAITH-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God. NOT BY WORKS lest any man should boast.
This is a classical example of lack of communication. No Protestant Christian (that I know of) believes that after being saved by Christ, it is then completely fine to go out and kill someone intentionally. Likewise, I know of no Mormon that believes they are going to get to Judgement Day and tell God, "Well, I earned it! Now let me in!" I think because of these communication errors we get endless debates with the same rehashed arguements on both sides.
total Here say. You are a queer. Of course god could have done the job with out the plan of salvation. He could have made everyone keep his comandments, oh yeah, that was Satans plan. You will never win, Satan.
the lord will help the missionaries answer your questions. Why did the Lord give very intense demanding commandments (synoptic gospels sermon on the mount,fulfilling the law of moses) if we are not to obey them . . . honestly my brother. We don't think we have to work our way into heaven, but we also don't agree with, knowing the gospel,knowing the scriptures,knowing the doctrine and not living it. If u know if you have to try and become perfect, that is also in the new test "perfect like I am"
i'm definatly NOT mormon, but you are wrong when you say that james 2 is talking about "justification before men", it is clearly talking about justification before God.
"see that a man is justifiied by works and not by faith alone" (James 2:24)
Study the passage and correlate it with Galatians and Ephesians... it's the only logical conclusion. To believe otherwise begs the question of the salvation of the interpreter.
So you're saying that as long as you accept Jesus Christ you can go do whatever you want and it doesn't matter cause you are SAVED and you'll get to Heaven?
That's an extreme assumption at the opposite end of the spectrum. Do a google search on the idea of eternal security and you'll find a more thorough discussion of that idea and an answer to your question that frankly... I'm tired of answering.
Christ enables any and all good works we do. If one is choosing to follow Christ their actions are only doable because of the grace of Christ. So they are not 'our' works. To do Christ's work is part of receiving of the Grace of God.
We are only able to do Christ's work through HIM the SON. Without HIM it would be impossible. OUR works are as filthy rags, but don't call Christ's works, given to us, filthy rags.
They are filthy rags if they are supposed to contribute in any way to our eternal salvation... before being born again, Christ is not in us and therefore we are not doing His works... but our own.
Being born again is not a one time event. We are to be continually reborn in Christ. Every action we do is dependent on the grace of God for it's effectuation and any efficacy it may achieve.
Salvation is not an end, it is a process. A process through which God's grace is omnipresent and omnirequisite.
yes it is a one time event... to believe otherwise is to be maintaining your own salvation and to do so is to prove the lack of being saved at all. "Saved" is past tense. Salvation is not an end... we grow in sanctification after salvation.
But that sanctification is because we are saved not in hopes that we will be. Please understand this. If you're trusting in your works and some constant grace for an eventual salvation... examine your heart and make your calling and election sure.
It's not maintaining your own salvation, it's choosing God's grace. God forces his grace unto Eternal Life on no one, if there was no choosing on our parts then we could not be held responsible whether we turned out damned or saved. Choice is not taken from us even when grace is available to us.
ahh... now you're getting into the theological paradox that is divine sovereignty and human responsibility. That's a dilemma that requires much more study and discussion than we have on a youtube comment page. Ultimately I do believe we choose, but only after God has enabled us to choose. Beforehand... all we desire to choose is sin.
There's no paradox in LDS theology because we don't have the problem with Evil. God's enabling us to choose is simply God's grace enabling us to continue with agency in this existence. The desire to sin is emergent from Adam/Eve's fall, but is not inherent to the nature of Man--because mankind was created perfect. But I agree that since we are getting into basics like the nature of the creation (ex nihilo vs ex materia). Though it would be interesting seeing you address the problem of sin.
Read up on Martin Luther and his ministry and you might see where I'm coming from.
The Bible has strong words about our effort and grace in relation to salvation. The point is not that we all fall short, but that our standing is so low that nothing we can do is able to please Him, that's the whole reason why we need a Savior. Take a look at these references: Gal. 3:3, Gal. 3:24-25
Its a matter of semantics, you and the two missionary's representing Christ were on the same page.."all you can do" simply means that one tries to do his/her best. No is one is perfect (except Christ). We all fall very very short. After we try to do our best, it is the Grace of Christ that ultimately saves us - this requires power to save and a lot of grace and mercy on His part.
keep up the good work brother
jayhawk88z 2 months ago
leSavaii: Paul doctrines ARE what Jesus preached.
wannawatchu66 8 months ago
Self talks...I think that you're jumping around trying to remember details of your conversation with the LDS missionaries. Believing in Christ is not enough. You gotta believe & DO (DO is WORK) what Jesus wants you to do. The Bible says that even the devils believe in Jesus but they cannot DO what Jesus says. The Bible also says: "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of His Father; And then He shall reward EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS" Go figure!
leSavaii 9 months ago
@leSavaii
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast." -Eph. 2:8-9
"He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit," -Titus 3:5
Gospelenthusiast 8 months ago
@leSavaii
I apologize in advance that I don't have time to drag on an endless debate (I know how these things go), but I would hope you read the verses I've posted for you and read them as they are. To believe what you've posted on my video you must inevitably deny these words of Holy Scripture. Please... submit to the Word of God and stop trying to earn the grace Christ offers you. To try and pay Christ back for the gift He offers is to flush His death and resurrection down the toilet.
Gospelenthusiast 8 months ago
@Gospelenthusiast...If you wanna apologize...apologize to God by doing what His Son Jesus set up for you to follow. Which "Word of God" that you need me to submit to?...would that be "The Holy Bible"? and if so, You don't even comprehend the mysteries of God in it. The Bible tells us what Jesus said to follow & learn of Him, that means any of His Apostles' ideas or doctrines..Paul included. It seems that Protestants preach Paul's doctrines more than what Jesus Christ preached.
leSavaii 8 months ago
mormons are witnessing to others in many parts of the world THE WORD OF CHRIST...so-called that is.You are witnessing to Mormons.Now which church holds the TRUTH?NONE.
sampuna 10 months ago
@sampuna..."Now which church holds the TRUTH?NONE" Exactly..all these Protestants knowingly are wasting their times preaching NO TRUTH at all but only hatreds...The LDS Church thru their missionary works publicly bear witness to the RESTORED TRUTH of Jesus the Christ...in other words, we do have GOD'S TRUTH whether you like it or not. Go figure!
leSavaii 5 months ago
Haha, I thought it went well. Would've kept it for a while if my job didn't make me shave it.
Gospelenthusiast 11 months ago
Haha, I thought it went well. Would've kept it for a while if my job didn't make me shave it.
Gospelenthusiast 11 months ago
how did the facial hair thing turn out by the way?
tbarronify 11 months ago
the mormon missioniares are evil !!!! free beer for who ever brings me the head of a mormon!!!!
MrMormonslayer 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MrMormonslayer ...Give me your address & I'll send two.
leSavaii 9 months ago
Active Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter DAy Saints aka Mormons Know more about Jesus Christ then any one of any other religion... get your facts straight... the Lds Church is God's Kingdom once again restored to the Earth, the divinity of the origins and existence of the book of mormon is Proof of this...
jkulesha 1 year ago
Book of Mormon
2 Nephi 33:6
“I glory in plainness; I glory in truth; I glory in my Jesus, for he hath redeemed my soul from hell.”
2 Nephi 9: 34
“Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell.”
imtherealthing 1 year ago
On the devil-inspired doctrine of the “Trinity”
The deity of Jesus Christ was decided upon by a vote . A few hundred church leaders gathered at Nicea in 325 AD. to vote on the matter. (the vote was loaded, because most of the opposing bishops were either KILLED or EXHILED or excluded!) Representation for the TRUTH about the Godhead was allowed by only a small fraction of those TRUE Christians...we lost the TRUTH then to the pagan trinity of man.
imtherealthing 1 year ago
The Book of Mormon
2 Nephi 33: 14-15
And you that will not partake of the goodness of God, and respect the words of the Jews, and also my words, and the words which shall proceed forth out of the mouth of the Lamb of God, behold, I bid you an everlasting farewell, for these words shall condemn you at the last day.
For what I seal on earth, shall be brought against you at the judgment bar; for thus hath the Lord commanded me, and I must obey. Amen
imtherealthing 1 year ago
God is truth. You tell the truth you reveal God to someone. Lie, and you hide God.
Truth, Jews follow the profits Abraham, Isaac. ect.
Christians follow the profit Jesus.
Muslims follow the profit Muhammad.
With new profits come new religion. -True
Mormons follow the new profit Joseph Smith. -true.
To be a Christian you follow Jesus, to be Mormon you follow J. Smith. -true
SO Mormons are not Christians because they dont believe the same teachings.
Truth hurts.
Bramendor 2 years ago
Jesus Dosn't Carry This Spirit Of Contention. And I Will Try Not To Have Part In It. That's Why...
watda411 2 years ago
@Bramendor
The Holy Ghost teaches us TRUTH ...it is revelation..we are instructed by a member of the Godhead..not by man's own learning..we LDS put our trust in God.
How would you try to show a Moslem that the Bible is the WORD of GOD?..one would need to have him/her READ it and PRAY about it..and it would be GOD in the end by the Holy Spirit that would convert that person..as is the case with the Book of Mormon.
Ignorant people like you are a by-product of your society and your prejudice
imtherealthing 1 year ago
Now. I'm A Mormon. And I Believe In Being Born Again. Half Of You Who Knock The Church Have NEVER Stepped Foot Inside Of Our Church, Never Sat Down A Actually Read And Prayed About The Book Of Mormon. I Can Tel You Beyond A Sahdow Of A Doubt, I Have A Relationship With God And Jesus, And I'm Born Again, And Am On Way Way To Heaven. The Mormon Church Is Christian. Go Ahead And Tell Me Otherwise About Every Truth I Just Said...But You Won't Be Getting Another Word Out Of Me. Thanks. =]
watda411 2 years ago
Of course we will knock a church that was invented by satan and his prophet of satan filthy jospeh smith
secretbandmember2 2 years ago
Comment removed
watda411 2 years ago
@watda411
God is truth. You tell the truth you reveal God to someone. Lie, and you hide God.
Truth, Jews follow the profits Abraham, Isaac. ect.
Christians follow the profit Jesus.
Muslims follow the profit Muhammad.
With new profits come new religion. -True
Mormons follow the new profit Joseph Smith. -true.
To be a Christian you follow Jesus, to be Mormon you follow J. Smith. -true
SO Mormons are not Christians because they dont believe the same teachings.
Truth hurts.
Bramendor 2 years ago
Comment removed
watda411 2 years ago
@watda411
Why do you write comments and then delete them? Have the courage to leave your words up man. Who knows they might convert someone to LDS.
Truth is something you can prove. Since the comments you made (then deleted) can not be proven you can not count them as truth. They are instead counted as FAITH.
Mormons are not Christians because they have different beliefs.
Bramendor 2 years ago
@Bramendor
Jesus' own words on the false "christian" churches of men and thier CREEDS:
JS-H 1: 19
I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
imtherealthing 1 year ago
@Bramendor
Acts 7:54
“When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.”
imtherealthing 1 year ago
@Bramendor
Acts 7:51-53
“Ye STIFFNECKED and uncircumcised IN HEART and EARS, YE DO ALWAYS RESIST the HOLY GHOST: as your fathers did, SO DO YE.
Which of the PROPHETS have not your fathers PERSECUTED and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Who have RECIEVED the law BY THE DISPOSITION OF ANGELS, and have NOT KEPT IT”.
imtherealthing 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Bramendor
Matt. 5: 22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou FOOL, shall be in danger of hell fire.
imtherealthing 1 year ago
@Bramendor
Why is it that false christianity needs analogies like an egg, a triangle, or water in its three phases to EXPLAIN thier 3-headed god?..can you point to just ONE place in the Bible where ANY of the prophets or apostles use these very analogies or ANY analogies for that matter to explain the GODHEAD?..well?
Guess your "god" is not found in the bible huh?
imtherealthing 1 year ago
Comment removed
watda411 2 years ago
Does anyone know who founded the born again religion? Was it jerry faldwell or Jim Baker. I can't remember. But I did so love the 80s.
marcopolo8765 2 years ago
lol... Jesus did: "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'" -John 3:7
Gospelenthusiast 2 years ago
@Gospelenthusiast...JESUS DID?...What Jesus told Nicodemus to be born again even more puzzled & confused him, even today's Protestants. Jesus made it clear to all Nicodemuses that they MUST BE BAPTIZED to enter into the Kingdom of God.
Martin Luther & other Catholic apostates didn't but their followers decades later cooked up these ideas to organize a movement different from Protestantisms & today known as Born Again Protestants
leSavaii 9 months ago
why would you ask them about the HOLY BIBLE? They only know the Book of Mormon...
ripmeanewon 2 years ago
Now be assured we Christians (at least gospelenthusiast and i) dont try to bruise any mormons we see. we love them enough to talk to them about what the Bible says about TRUE salvation and the TRUE Jesus. so why do you speak badly about "born agains"? Is it because we love you as well and therefore you must hate us?
over9000q 2 years ago
marcopolo8765 you put up very offensive arguements here, as if my friend's video has struck a nerve! "spoken like a true follower of satan" really caught my attention as i was reading your comments. you also tried justifying the work of mormons as they give up two full years of their life in "ministry". now while THIS IS ADMIRABLE of them, what about the jehovah's witnesses? they print out more literature than even the mormons, so should we as "born agains" show them honor as well?
over9000q 2 years ago
God bless you! I appreciate your work and please never forget that He is always there, waiting for your questions and with His love!
Duncan80723 2 years ago
You mean the lord sent you LDS missionaires to show unto you the truth in the fully restored gospel. And you argued with them? Man i bet Christ was shaking his head in disbelief.
marcopolo8765 2 years ago
There was no arguing. It was a friendly conversation and we left on good terms. It's important though that they knew the whole of what the Bible teaches not just their favorite verses. Yeah I bet you're right...
Christ was shaking His head. Heretical teaching that says the cross wasn't enough really just carves the grace right out from what Christ did.
He probably sits on His throne asking, "Why does man feel the need to 'restore' his own self-righteousness to the freedom I provided?"
Gospelenthusiast 2 years ago
Self righteous. You really see acts of faith hope and charity as self righteous. Well I suppose to a born again. When they see people like missionairse who devote 2 full years of their life to serve the lord and give up all that they have even contact with there families. I can see how a born again would see that as self righteous. Well Jealousy and resentment anyway. But you can call it what you want to.
marcopolo8765 2 years ago
"...all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment" -Isaiah 64:6
"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy..." Titus 3:4-5
Adding any works of our own to salvation no matter how good... is ultimately an attempt to bribe God and deny the finished work of Christ. It's not about jealousy. It's a matter of solemn concern. Sacrifices are good, but not if we're hoping in them to help save us.
Gospelenthusiast 2 years ago
spoken like a true follower of satan. Only a wickedly bad person would not even have any desire to be good or to help others, to follow and commandments or examples from the bible at all. To only follow the desires of his own lust and still think that he is saved and do nothing for his own salvation. And hey dude why does it have to be about bribing God why cant good people just be good people cause they want to be? I know thats pretty hard for a born again to understand but really
marcopolo8765 2 years ago
Strong words. Zeal without knowledge can consume you and feed deception.
Please read what I say before replying. My ref. to works was purely regarding salvation. Works do characterize how believers live after being saved. That's what James teaches.
Consider your extreme words; "any, at all, only" These are are not my claims. Don't assume... ask me.
If for the purpose of salvation it's not just you wanting to do good works... it's paying God in deeds and implying Christ wasn't enough.
Gospelenthusiast 2 years ago
You know I have never once even met another Mormon that thinks they need to pay God in deeds for any reason. Your pre determined false assumptions of things you are not willing to find out for yourself about, is your biggest down fall. Speaking out about something that you don't have the mustard to find out for yourself about. well thats a close second. Cause its not only destroys your character but your creditably as well. You really might want to talk to a missionary. It might help.
marcopolo8765 2 years ago
James was talking to a group of new Christians. They were already saved. Context is everything. If you look at James 1:23 you'll see that Abraham BELIEVED God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness.
johnyjamie 2 years ago
Keep up the evangelism! Sweet stuff.
MRMdotORG 3 years ago
John 4:1-3 its basically a guideline to determine those false prophets. Its by the things they teach that we will know if they are false or not.
Rammiumptum 3 years ago
Our righteousness is as filthy rags before God (according to the bible). Nothing we do can justify us, but we are justified by Christ living in us and through us, and it is because of this that we do good works...not the other way around. Does anyone really believe we can work our way into heaven? Then salvation would be a reward, not a gift if that were so...and scripture clearly says that it is a GIFT FROM GOD
jsao32 3 years ago
Those "filthy rags" works are the works of the Law of Moses. That's what people don't seem to realize, that when Paul speaks of grace vs. works, it's not the works of the Gospel, it's the works of the Law. which Mormons do NOT do. We do the works of the gospel, following the commandments of CHRIST, as we see them.
lindalds 2 years ago
The comments I posted were for 2nephi28 in case anyone was wondering
jsao32 3 years ago
Paul speaks about this same thing in romans when he says "before men you are justified by works, by God you are justified by faith". People could only see Abraham's faith when he lifted the knife over Isaac's body, but God knew Abrahams heart before he even went up the mountain. the LDS church has it backwards. Look in Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by grace you have BEEN saved (past tense), through FAITH-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God. NOT BY WORKS lest any man should boast.
jsao32 3 years ago
You don't bark to become a dog, you bark because you ARE a dog. you don't go out and do works to get saved, you go out BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED.
jsao32 3 years ago
This is a classical example of lack of communication. No Protestant Christian (that I know of) believes that after being saved by Christ, it is then completely fine to go out and kill someone intentionally. Likewise, I know of no Mormon that believes they are going to get to Judgement Day and tell God, "Well, I earned it! Now let me in!" I think because of these communication errors we get endless debates with the same rehashed arguements on both sides.
deelerofdeath 3 years ago
total Here say. You are a queer. Of course god could have done the job with out the plan of salvation. He could have made everyone keep his comandments, oh yeah, that was Satans plan. You will never win, Satan.
teamhonda333 3 years ago
the lord will help the missionaries answer your questions. Why did the Lord give very intense demanding commandments (synoptic gospels sermon on the mount,fulfilling the law of moses) if we are not to obey them . . . honestly my brother. We don't think we have to work our way into heaven, but we also don't agree with, knowing the gospel,knowing the scriptures,knowing the doctrine and not living it. If u know if you have to try and become perfect, that is also in the new test "perfect like I am"
jacecrawford 3 years ago
WOW! What a clif hanger! I guess we'll never know what happens to those poor skateboarders...
urloony 3 years ago
i'm definatly NOT mormon, but you are wrong when you say that james 2 is talking about "justification before men", it is clearly talking about justification before God.
"see that a man is justifiied by works and not by faith alone" (James 2:24)
OneTrueChurch 3 years ago
Study the passage and correlate it with Galatians and Ephesians... it's the only logical conclusion. To believe otherwise begs the question of the salvation of the interpreter.
Gospelenthusiast 3 years ago
So you're saying that as long as you accept Jesus Christ you can go do whatever you want and it doesn't matter cause you are SAVED and you'll get to Heaven?
What a bunch of nonsense.
EverASurprise 4 years ago
That's an extreme assumption at the opposite end of the spectrum. Do a google search on the idea of eternal security and you'll find a more thorough discussion of that idea and an answer to your question that frankly... I'm tired of answering.
Gospelenthusiast 3 years ago
That is what I have heard from people, more than once.
EverASurprise 3 years ago
Christ enables any and all good works we do. If one is choosing to follow Christ their actions are only doable because of the grace of Christ. So they are not 'our' works. To do Christ's work is part of receiving of the Grace of God.
HiveRadical 4 years ago
I agree with all you said except the last line. We receive the grace of God through faith in His Son.
Gospelenthusiast 4 years ago
We are only able to do Christ's work through HIM the SON. Without HIM it would be impossible. OUR works are as filthy rags, but don't call Christ's works, given to us, filthy rags.
HiveRadical 4 years ago
They are filthy rags if they are supposed to contribute in any way to our eternal salvation... before being born again, Christ is not in us and therefore we are not doing His works... but our own.
Gospelenthusiast 4 years ago
Being born again is not a one time event. We are to be continually reborn in Christ. Every action we do is dependent on the grace of God for it's effectuation and any efficacy it may achieve.
Salvation is not an end, it is a process. A process through which God's grace is omnipresent and omnirequisite.
HiveRadical 4 years ago
yes it is a one time event... to believe otherwise is to be maintaining your own salvation and to do so is to prove the lack of being saved at all. "Saved" is past tense. Salvation is not an end... we grow in sanctification after salvation.
But that sanctification is because we are saved not in hopes that we will be. Please understand this. If you're trusting in your works and some constant grace for an eventual salvation... examine your heart and make your calling and election sure.
Gospelenthusiast 3 years ago
It's not maintaining your own salvation, it's choosing God's grace. God forces his grace unto Eternal Life on no one, if there was no choosing on our parts then we could not be held responsible whether we turned out damned or saved. Choice is not taken from us even when grace is available to us.
HiveRadical 3 years ago
ahh... now you're getting into the theological paradox that is divine sovereignty and human responsibility. That's a dilemma that requires much more study and discussion than we have on a youtube comment page. Ultimately I do believe we choose, but only after God has enabled us to choose. Beforehand... all we desire to choose is sin.
Gospelenthusiast 3 years ago
There's no paradox in LDS theology because we don't have the problem with Evil. God's enabling us to choose is simply God's grace enabling us to continue with agency in this existence. The desire to sin is emergent from Adam/Eve's fall, but is not inherent to the nature of Man--because mankind was created perfect. But I agree that since we are getting into basics like the nature of the creation (ex nihilo vs ex materia). Though it would be interesting seeing you address the problem of sin.
HiveRadical 3 years ago
Read up on Martin Luther and his ministry and you might see where I'm coming from.
The Bible has strong words about our effort and grace in relation to salvation. The point is not that we all fall short, but that our standing is so low that nothing we can do is able to please Him, that's the whole reason why we need a Savior. Take a look at these references: Gal. 3:3, Gal. 3:24-25
Gospelenthusiast 4 years ago
Its a matter of semantics, you and the two missionary's representing Christ were on the same page.."all you can do" simply means that one tries to do his/her best. No is one is perfect (except Christ). We all fall very very short. After we try to do our best, it is the Grace of Christ that ultimately saves us - this requires power to save and a lot of grace and mercy on His part.
Linkn65 4 years ago