Bob Katz - music mastering and loudness Part 2

[Samwellah]

I can master a song under 5 minutes. Crank up Nuendo, import my wav track, dump ozone into my master out, load up the master preset, tweak the limiter and squash the shit out of it. Vuahla! Modern music ;)

[keogh02]

@Samwellah the power of christ compels you

[sardhouse76]

vinyl RULE

[Pete75227]

wtf lol "thank you mary". awesome job :)

[z33twinturbo]

I love my banger music loud as shit (the kind that's supposed to be loud, dirty, nasty, and fucked up) but EVERYTHING else when it's over compressed sounds like DOG SHIT. Classical, Jazz, Hip Hop, Latino, Rock, Rap, Metal, Country, Blues, Folk, Indie... All of it is getting over compressed and sounds like shit. Pisses me off.

[sardhouse76]

@z33twinturbo and, what about the drum'n'bass, i love to listen to drum'n'bass songs from vinyl, the bass are too loud and deep and soo big and sometimes there are some "dynamic" surprise , expecially at high volume into the club. amazing!!!!

[555pontifex]

This gentleman is the pair of generative organs belonging to the carbon-based lifeform genus canis canis.



[unclesaboin]

I set my monitors like you said in this video: -20 dBfs RMS = 83 dBc SPL. I've analyzed some of my mixes with Sound Forge to see what the final RMS value would be and they usually come out pretty close to -20 RMS. Like you said, I can mix blind.

When I master stuff myself, I usually have to fight with the client to keep the levels low enough so I don't lose too many dynamics. Everybody says "I don't want my CD to be lower than others." I never go above -14 RMS though.

[thomasnordwest]

To fight the loudnes war we need the industry to create analyzing software that calculates the average dynamic rage of a song BEFORE playing it, and adjustign it to an appropriate LOWER level. Like this the more dynamic songs would sound much better and the war would stop tomorrow! ... Without the support of industry standards it will be a very slow development to return to "good mixed music".

[alexgowers]

I think what i'm concerned about the average volume vs peak metering is consistency, it's impossible to implement without just as many bad habits coming in. How to you manage this average, over what time scale with what frequencies?

These open up loopholes to process audio again to reach more volume during the normalisation process and i think that could actually much much worse.

People are clever and the records they actually like are somewhere in between distorted and just right.

[pancaqe1]

to: MikeeDustBunny: EBU = European Board of Urology (just kidding ;). It stands for European Broadcasting Union. It is a confederation of 75 broadcasting organizations from 56 countries, and 43 associate broadcasters from 25 other countries. In cooperation with the AES, Audio Engineering Society. They educate broadcasters and research/develop new technologies and define industry standards such as AES/EBU for digital audio interconnection.

[brunocoelhobass]

Most music is dead anyway, there is no more a recording industry, it is now "entertainment" industry.

[motphine4u]

this is reason why 80's and 90's music sound so much better than today's. victims of loudness war are comsumer listener.

[MikeeDustBunny]

Pardon my igmorence, but... What is the EBU system?

[lucianodato]

@MikeeDustBunny I wanted to ask the same

[HabAnagarek]

Water FAUCET

[ShynAwkward]

The loudness in modern recordings kills most of the emotional response we feel when we hear something expressive & dynamic (1940 - 2002).

But who dares to take a stand in the 'POPULAR' music areana & re-introduce dynamics to a commercial release?

It means your track on a varied mp3 playlist will be significantly lower than that of your peers.

Can the average consumer tolerate constant variation in levels?

Just a few things to consider.....

[TheExplodingBit]

Very good talk.

[bl4ck0p]

What is the EBU system?

[1978Allanc]

so many albums now are mastered with loudness at the forefront, it should always be the dynamics, if you want to hear a good record louder turn up your speakers, easy!!

[remixerone]

@1978Allanc excellent point!

[freezazoid]

@1978Allanc But there's problems with that... speakers and amps have noise as you turn them up.... so if the record was mastered really quietly, I'm going to start hearing the noise from my system. Second, If a record is MIXED improperly and I'm playing it very loud... certain parts are going to sound too loud while others are too quiet... hence the need for lots of compression during mastering. 90's oasis records are mastered the opposite of katz's world yet sound amazing when cranked up!!!

[ShSwStudios]

@freezazoid You need to have a good compression so your second point doesn't happen. But thats happening while mixing. The Master comp. only brings the music together nicely. It's not for repairing mixin' mistakes! You need to find the middle. With nice dynamics but nice punch, too. Loudness is only for listeners so they think it has a better quality than a record thats not so loud. If you turn down a hard-limited song->AWFUL! Don't forget: too much compression is pretty dangerous for your ears!

[mcturdlemusic]

@1978Allanc I'm not defending the loudness camp by any means... But when you turn up your speakers or monitoring equipment you do bring the overall noise floor up, which results in accentuated high frequency noise playing back through your mix which is unpleasant as well. I think there is a balance that has to be reached between maximizing a nominal volume for the song yet also maintaining good musical dynamics.

[1978Allanc]

@mcturdlemusic Yeah Turdle i would agree with you there, its all about the balance , and not to forget the sound , the key is that there are no real rules , if its the sound you want then its right. That being said your right the balance of loudness and dynamics is essential , good point man. Also when you have the Waves plug ins , its hard to go wrong yee ha!!!

[hedegaard8]

@1978Allanc Yep. Theres an old "rule of thumb", that when using EQ, you're supposed to lower the undesirable notes, not raise the desirable ones :)

[JCHandJobLover]

Music is rather like the human body, it needs to breathe, so dynamics is so important.

Teach them well Bob

[bunnywolfinc]

What about including some form metadata containing the required loudness information for the server?

[Mowens800]

@bunnywolfinc For me, if the metadata is produced by the same Mastering engineers that are pursuing the problem, then they will just enter incorrect data to ensure their recording are louder than others (ie. claim is it a lower average level than it really is, so it is played back louder). So a 3rd party for the metadata is needed, unless done automatically via analysis.