Lesson 2 - Rolls Ascending and Descending (John Bonham)

[Spydr2000]

Great Playing! You better send them heads back to Remo and have them replaced...their coating sucks and I've been complaining about it. They will replace them. They use to make great drumheads.

[Earthdogbonzo3]

@GrooveDrummin Top Sticking Pattern: 1e&2&d3&=3/8(RLRLRLRL) L(sd) F R(ft w/hh), L(sd) R(ft) F, L(sd w/hh) F R(ft), L(sd) R(ft w/hh) F = 1cycle. It's a drummistic polyrhythm, w each limb playing a distinct pattern keyed together with everything else. I have given the very basic idea here. This is Bonzo's drum-splash most notably at the end of RNR, but once you master it, it then becomes recognizable especially in his live performance. This is not a 'trick', it's a skill.

[GrooveDrummin]

@Earthdogbonzo3

What? Please write the pattern on one line...what i get from this is:

LFLFLFLR and if this is a polyrhythm then see if you can line the notes up on two lines, one above the other.

[Earthdogbonzo3]

@GrooveDrummin LFR LRF LFR LRF: Where the 'L' plays snare drum, the 'F' plays bass drum, and the 'R' plays the floor tom. The hi hat falls together on the first R, the third L and then the 4th R. This is the basic idea, then you can start moving it around.

[GrooveDrummin]

@Earthdogbonzo3

That's much better! I'll look into that pattern and let you know my findings.

[XxStrongDrums1996xX]

@Earthdogbonzo3 Check out his vid "Upbeat kick lick" (or at least that's what I think it's called). That was not only a popular lick amongst John Bonham, but many other drummers back in his time. I believe that Ian Paice also helped popularize that pattern.

[Earthdogbonzo3]

@XxStrongDrums1996xX No, the pattern that I'm referring to is different from the ascending/descending triplets. It's a mixed sticking pattern with what ends up to be a double 'kick' which alternates with the two 'Rs': LFR LRF LFR LRF: where the 'L' plays the snare drum, 'R' plays floor tom, and 'F' is the bass drum. The hi hat falls together on the first R, third L and fourth R. This is the basic concept; from this there are at least several major variations that I use. It can also blast.

[XxStrongDrums1996xX]

@Earthdogbonzo3 I wasn't referring to the ascending/descending triplets. Check out Dan's video entitled "upbeat kick lick". That video demonstrates what you are explaining.

[GrooveDrummin]

@XxStrongDrums1996xX

you are correct, exactly like my lesson...the only difference is in the bass drum. Instead of steady 8th notes it turns out to be two 16ths.

[Earthdogbonzo3]

@XxStrongDrums1996xX not the same idea: apples and oranges, i think a bit more esoteric . . .

[XxStrongDrums1996xX]

@Earthdogbonzo3 Maybe so, but the two ideas aren't really that different. What you are explaining isn't a very secret pattern. RFRLR played as triplets is one of my favorite licks.

[Earthdogbonzo3]

@XxStrongDrums1996xX R(sd) L(t) R(ft), B L(t) B, R(sd) L(t) R(ft), B L(t) B: t=rack tom, ft=floor tom, sd=snare drum and B=bass drum, check it out

[XxStrongDrums1996xX]

@Earthdogbonzo3 I think I see what you're trying to get at now, but you're writing it differently than before! Is it RLRFLF or RFLRLF?

[Earthdogbonzo3]

@XxStrongDrums1996xX same pattern, but a different slant/emphasis.

[Earthdogbonzo3]

There is one very important mixed sticking triplet technique of Bonzo's that I have yet to see anyone expound on or even hint at knowing it.

[TheApostleofRock]

so when i play triplets i speed up no problem. then at a certain speed, i hit this barrier it seems and when ever i try to push any faster than that i loose my timing and the spacing and it sounds so sloppy...got any advice?

[GrooveDrummin]

@TheApostleofRock

what's happening is you have reached "pedal to the metal"...if you want to go faster you'll need to "supe up" your body. This happens with practice. Make sure you don't speed up or slow down...practice to a metronome.

[Earthdogbonzo3]

@TheApostleofRock Try just incorporating it slowly with musical feeling being the main force as opposed to technique. In other words phrase it to compliment a song that you're hearing, once a technique becomes a musical expression it then assumes a whole other life from just being a 'riff' or crowd pleaser: then the technical points and facility begin to come together in a big way!

[jeffgreenpix]

Great Lessons, you're awesome!! Thanks

[zitfig]

You sound like the guy on ice-age.

No but honestly you are the best player I have seen on youtube so far, great to-the-point lessons, and your kit sounds fantastic:)

[JackMehoff845]

@zitfig you mean ray romano, haha hes Canadian not jewish

[crunkalac]

you r a god!!

[peaceout231]

lol i can only to them leading with the left

[caden2434]

Oh my god, I never realized it but I play that fill A lot.

[RriverJJ]

VERY GOOD

[KirkyDaTurkey]

holy crap. I always do those fills LEFT, RIGHT, KICK. I've never seen anyone else do it until now

[GrooveDrummin]

@KirkyDaTurkey

cool, are you British? ...just wondering because I've noticed most of those players do L-R-K.

[KirkyDaTurkey]

@GrooveDrummin Nope. Born and raised in the NorthWest haha. My teacher briefly showed me L-R-K one time and ever since then it's what I've always done. I need to work on R-L-K more. I just really like the descending high to low tone. And you're definitely right at the end...it's a lot of fun to play!

[z3n3]

@KirkyDaTurkey Same here. I always begin my trips with my left hand, even though I am right-handed. Always thought it was kind of strange, but it's cool to know others do the same.

[GrooveDrummin]

@XxAneurysmx

Please see my profile for complete list of gear. Usually no eq or fx just a dynamics expander when I master the final mix. Thank you!

[jordanjcm]

I always begin with my foot

[yonatawodi]

Good stuff!

I love how something so simple as leading with the left or right hand changes the sound of the same fill. Mixing these up really allows for that brilliant Bonham sound.

Cheers

[GrooveDrummin]

@yonatawodi

Yeah, for sure. Thanks very much!

[arjunkaul]

Supreme lesson

[wildrocker92]

Thanks for the tips! I like your drums sound :D

[IAmtheBallrus]

holy crap your soooo good

i watched a couple of your videos and i'm amazed great job

[Jabarichonicles]

Have ur hats chikin with ur left hand...that's truly bonzos style

[nojam4u]

Your drumset sounds so much like Bonzo's.

[mreliassimpson]

Im a brutish drummer ;D

[mreliassimpson]

@mreliassimpson British

[aczeppelindc2908]

your vids are freaking me out, you talk like robot and suddenly appeares

[sticksbass]

im american but i taught myself the desending way and later noticed everybody else doing it asendingly. you sound great!

[GrooveDrummin]

@sticksbass

Thank you kindly

[hendrickvps]

I start the triplet with the kick: kick left right... you think thats wrong o its another fill?

[GrooveDrummin]

@hendrickvps

That's great, so long as you keep the left then right to retain the descending notes.

[RFRCR]

I first learned this lick from watching a Primus live DVD (track: "My Name is Mud"). It wasn't til later that I realized Tim Alexander got it from Bonzo, no surprise!

[distubedrat]

Never thought of this... o.O

[jesseleite]

What type of coated heads do you use? Are they coated Emporers or Ambassadors?  Have you ever tried Remo's "Vintage A" or "Vintage Emporer" heads?

[GrooveDrummin]

@jesseleite

Emperor...never tried those newer heads but the guys at my local music shop say they sound darker and dryer.

[jesseleite]

@GrooveDrummin

Interesting thank you. Could I ask you about your toms? What heads you use on the bottom of your toms? Do you tune the bottoms up to the same pitch as the tops, or do you you tune them tighter? I've heard it both ways, but you have a great Bonham like sound so I was wondering what your preference is.

[zepgen8]

Fantastic stuff my friend..The Guy who taught me was Bill Harvey..bonzo best mate..

So I feel you're keeping the Great man alive...Oh by the way those drums sound incedible..Keep up thr good work.

[GrooveDrummin]

@zepgen8

Very cool to hear from you! Did Bill teach John anything?

Thank you very much!!

[zepgen8]

@GrooveDrummin .They used to trade idea's.But bonzo was pretty much a leader.So the Answer Not really.Bill would say ''Perhaps a little Finesse''..

Bit of a joke that.Cheers.

[chazsinger]

Been playing myself some 40 years and I love your videos and explanation! Fantastic job brother!

[Aviyaytor]

Wow! Make it look too easy ! Thank you for the lesson!!!

[RikkiDeeRocks]

Kick Ass Bro!!!

[somegrass1987]

Dude, you're incredible. I've only been playing drums for about 2 years and can't stop watching your videos. A major help!

[GrooveDrummin]

@somegrass1987

Hey man, that makes me very happy to hear this :)

[somegrass1987]

@GrooveDrummin I'm just glad to find a video where someone actually explains pretty in depth. I've been practicing this A LOT as of late when I can (I'm primarily a guitar player) and I'm finally starting to get it down. I love that feeling of gratification when you learn something new on an instrument. Can't thank you enough for putting this up man. Cheers.

[GrooveDrummin]

@somegrass1987

That's great to hear you are able to play this lick now! Awesome! Thanks for letting me know.

[GrooveDrummin]

@somegrass1987

Thanks a lot for watching and the kind words!

[JacqueShredo]

Beautiful playing man

You really capture the spirit that's for sure, and great drum tone!

[ranemijo18]

The kit sound real good. Can you share your tuning tips, the kick drum especially. Thanks.

[GrooveDrummin]

@ranemijo18

equal tension, not too tight, no port, no dampening except two felt strips and the falam pad adds attack. I have a 22min. video that I explain and illustrate in detail how I tune my bass drum. See in my list of videos. Thanks.

[Skravinner]

really easy to play

[GrooveDrummin]

@Skravinner

I know, it's about the technique and sound not the difficulty

[Skravinner]

@GrooveDrummin i was beeing ironic ¬¬'

[GrooveDrummin]

@Skravinner

ok, i misunderstood you

[Skravinner]

@GrooveDrummin haha...no problem...you're very good by the way! i mean VERY GOOD

[GrooveDrummin]

@Skravinner

thank you very much!

[ianbestdrummer]

Really great lesson.

Thanks so much

[funkytomtom]

AWESOME VIDEO!!!  Very nicely done. It makes everything very clear and easy to understand. Almost makes me think I could play it....

[GrooveDrummin]

@funkytomtom

Thank you, You can play it :)

[WisperMetal]

great thanks a lot! ill try it with the ambassador and if it doesnt work ill try emperors

[WisperMetal]

ah yeah, i forgot to tell you that I have the resonant tight and the batter a couple of full twists of the rod after the wrinkles are gone. basicly the resonant is 50 percent tighter than the batter. it sounds pretty agressive and i dont want that its too mucho resonance and sustain

[GrooveDrummin]

@WisperMetal

I would suggest to get that reso looser and then bring the batter up to same tension then start loosening off the batter (as you play it) and listen for that tone that strikes your ears best. Also, the coated emperor (2-ply) will be closer to the sound of a pinstripe, but more "natural" sounding. The ambassadors sound great too with more attack and resonance yet but I think you may be happier with the coated emperor. Batter LITTLE looser than reso.

[WisperMetal]

hi.. i need some advise, I got a Ludwig Element and i recentrly bought a remo ambassador coated for my 12" tom, with the ludwig stock head as resonant. The thing is i achieved a very nice tone but there is a tremendous vibration after it that i never heard that loud with clear heads (pinstripes for example). i never bought a batter coated before, now i want that darker sound of old kits, like yours, not as birght as with clears but still pure. so the vibrations are normal with coated?

[DeBAMreptiles]

I peed my pants. But just a little >:(

[smadonna89]

Your kit sounds great and I like the video but you forgot the classic bonzo crossover (his finale for every moby dick)

[GrooveDrummin]

@smadonna89

Didn't forget anything and clearly I wasn't playing Moby Dick

[llamedica]

Great lesson Dan. You touch on some really important pointers and tips in there. Love the format with the voice overs too.

[colourfulwithaU]

Are you Canadian?

[GrooveDrummin]

@colourfulwithaU

yes, born and raised

[j0hnss0n]

great stuff. gonna start practice to lead with my left hand ! by the way, what heads do you use? they sound amazing!

[GrooveDrummin]

@j0hnss0n

Remo coated Emperor, thank you.

[Jellybeantiger]

You have the best sounding kit on you tube.

Glorious.

[jdrummys]

If I have a lot of trouble getting used to this, wouldnt it sound the same to just cross the arms over and still lead with the right on the high tom?

[GrooveDrummin]

@jdrummys

Yes, it will sound the same but I recommend you keep at it because it will be easier on the brain in the long run...maybe not now...but later when you start incorporating accents and want to embellish. I know when I was first doing this, it threw me for a loop too...try practicing away from your kit, on your lap; left hand on left thigh, right hand on right thigh and foot is foot, go LRF for as long as you can. When you get to the kit, you'll see how it suddenly feels more natural :)

[paultheactor1]

Really some of the sound comes from the stick Michael Andretti! Duh! LOL

[sctaerprhearna]

awesome.

[moisesespisan]

amazing!!!

[susswald]

Great videos, I've rediscovered LZ in the last few days and I always forget just how great Bonzo is, your lessons are very informative, especially on the subtle bits that people forget about.

[kqbumpkin]

Love your videos...they are helping me alot, wish I was half as good as you!

[kydrummer0817]

Do you use overhead mics? And what mics do u use on ur toms/snare? By the way ur amazazing!

[GrooveDrummin]

@kydrummer0817

Yes, two in stereo. See my profile for complete list of mics I use.

Thank you!

[pedrolarrompe]

hi Dan, . What bassdrum skin you use???? congratulations fot your videos. I love it

[GrooveDrummin]

@pedrolarrompe

Coated Ambassador in this vid. Thank you for watching.

[adzug]

drums sound great,nice lesson, but just a cpl things. plz use in a beat so as to hear the phrase, and explain broken trips a lil. i love these fills but have trouble at times for my left hand movin round the kit. its simple but id like to put it in my playing in the right places so it makes sense with the music, cheers bro,

[AldridgeHalenFreak]

Question: "Do you think that sometimes when Bonham was really cranking on these triplet rolls(At their Peak speed) that at times he would take the lead stick weather it be his left or right depending on which way he was moving he would let the stick do a touch of ghost notes to sort of mix with it in the heat of the fury?"

[GrooveDrummin]

@AldridgeHalenFreak

Yes, actually from what I've noticed Bonzo would employ strokes begining with which ever hand he felt like, for the most part he really did begin most of his fills with the left but in the heat of the moment I have seen him occasionally lead with the right and sometimes with his foot (F-L-R). I have to add that he used to like stuff like L-R-L, R-L-R and L-L-R-R, R-R-L-L. There was a "symmetry" in the mechanics of his playing.

[AldridgeHalenFreak]

Alright! Right on...Tuning is a good thing! Tuning is an art. I use my fingers as gauges and my ear . I was working on the Descending roll factor. Leading with my Left since my Left is my largest weakness. It doesn't look it as much but I can feel it.

Thanks Friend.

[AldridgeHalenFreak]

So...where is Lesson 4 N 5? Is there ....?

I was looking for them but if I cannot find them perhaps they are not born yet.

;p()

[GrooveDrummin]

@AldridgeHalenFreak

Not yet, only 3 for now... but because of the demand, I'm working on my first tuning vid...the bass drum. Should be done in the next week or two...

Thanks for your interest!

[TheDirectorofFoo]

Fantastic Tips, dude! I learned something from a youtube video! You accomplished something. And I'm not bashing you or anything, but I can't help chuckling a little bit when your head pops up and you start talking in a monotone voice. Great video though!

[CuriousTripBand]

this is a good lesson you got here

[bigdaveupload1980]

this is incredible man! what skins do you use?

[hashkat]

this reminds me of starfox the way his head keeps poping up with advice

[MarkusGronroos]

Thanks! 5/5! I use this every time I play (:

[midwestheat]

Very informative i love your playing.

[Hammerfoot72]

It is hard to write anything without swearing!!!!! Dan thank you so much for the vids.. your feel and tuning technique is unmatched.. pay attention guys and gals, this fella is the real deal!!! i see you have receieved many nice comments about your playing as well.. i am sure i can speak for all when i say "you are the best drummer i have seen on you tube"!!! this is just great stuff all the way around.. thanks again Dan... your friend, Hammerfoot.........

[Drumming2thelord]

sweet LORD! Subscribed!

[groovingsoul]

Your consistency is astounding.

[osso12]

I have been looking for this forever! Everyone plays this famous "fill"

Is there anyway you can slow some of this down and break it down even further??

So its always best to start this with the left hand eh? Is everything you are playing on this particular video a triplet? No doubles with the hand??

[GrooveDrummin]

I'm glad I can help! I'll keep the "slow down" suggestion in mind for future vids for sure. Yes, mostly single stroke triplets, no double strokes. It is not that it's better to start with the left but the sound, as illustrated in this vid, is different. No right or wrong way but the point of this vid was to clarify how Bonham would execute his fills. Thanks!

[osso12]

I have been looking for this forever! Everyone plays this famous "fill"

Is there anyway you can slow some of this down and break it down even further??

So its always best to start this with the left hand eh?

[StuW4]

Wow! You're really, really good! That's really informative stuff!. I'm a massive Bonham fan, your playing's flawless! Hats off dude! : )

[8771]

Nice, has anyone Played Black & White? Hes like that little red devil thing in the corner of the screen.

[cadetuspifoni]

are there more lessons from you? cause you are a great teacher and drummer too

[GrooveDrummin]

I'm working on getting some more lessons together. I am humbled, thank you so much!

[federicoperale]

man you are good...would give an arm to play like this...but then again I wouldn't be able to play

[thisisspinaltap]

def leppard......

[funnyminky]

Nice tastefull stuff man!

[bonhamfan98]

I love the sound of your snare; how are you tuning it? Phenomenal playing by the way.

[GrooveDrummin]

very, very tight reso, medium tight batter...42 strand snares and don't play into the drum, think of pulling the sound OUT of it. Thanks.

[bonhamfan98]

Cool, thanks a lot.

[Who2Are1You]

dammit. i'm so used to my right hand. i guess now's as good of a time to get my left one going. can you give a lesson on how to lead with your left?? maybe some exercises. i wanna be able to have that flow when bonham played moby dick live. when it's just the high hat going and rolls with the occasional BOOMS.

[FreerideMadness]

this is exactly what i want to play. it's awesome!!!!

[8eatm0nster]

Excellent stuff! As an old Brit drummer who had the privilege of watching Bonzo do his stuff a couple of times, this is as close as it gets. Subscribed!!

[GrooveDrummin]

Wow, I am flattered!! You are so lucky, I wish I could have seen John play...sitting right behind him watching would've been ultimate.

[UberPiroxsFriend]

Don't be flattered Dan you are that good! The only downside to standing right next to Bonham when he was playing would have been that he would have ruptured your internal organs right from the beginning of rock and roll.

[bayamrob]

you lucky arse ol chap!!!!

[thame2010]

This guy is a BEAST!

[CardiffGiant79]

Excellent video lesson! The Ludwig kit sounds so great and almost like Bonhams!!

[F11L00]

really nice!!

[lospepes14]

This is an awesome lesson!!

[TrapsWonder]

Whenever I try triplets like these between snare, tom, and bass, I can never get the bass to fall in the right place. The faster I go, it always ends up sounding like a flam between the second beat and the bass drum. Any tips to correct that besides taking it slow and practicing. I need instant results, hehe - thanks in advance.

[GrooveDrummin]

ok...count 1-2-3 over and over and keep that steady, i mean with a beat to it but it needs to be consistant with no pauses. This count corresponds to L-R-F and all you do is play the notes as you count them. Now, I know you won't be able to count as fast as you can play but this 1-2-3 needs to be embeded into your memory, later you won't need to count. Let me know if this helps.

[TrapsWonder]

I will definitely give that a go - thank you!

[madonlfc]

I love this! Excellent work man. In your opinion, who is the best rock drummer of all time? It is Bonham all the way for me... :)

Once again, thanks for the demo :)

[GrooveDrummin]

Thank you! I agree Bonham at top, then Don Brewer from Grand Funk with Carmine Appice being a 2nd and 3rd for me. Then there is Cozy Powell and how can I forget Ian Paice...the list can go on :)

Thanks again!

[farblosaludiert]

Now this is something I can use. Drum kit sounds

excellent.

[bd1956]

Do you have a dvd available? If not you should.Best Bonham lessons on you tube.Thank you very much for all your video's Awesome stuff !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GrooveDrummin]

Actually working on it. Sorting out some legal issues realting to using Bonham's name and performing Zep music on the dvd .

Thank you so much!

[errriikd]

FUCK YEAAAAAHHHHH !!!!!!

[IAMConnorobrien]

how do you get your snare to have zero ring? if i put a ring on mine it sounds too dead.

[GrooveDrummin]

I ordered mine with an internal felt muffle pad. I apply it very slightly.

[GrooveDrummin]

also, try a coated emperor, you'll be surprised how much of the ring is gone and no need for an internal felt.

[elementality2431]

wow i like your lessons way better then joedrums- you actually explain it, your awesome!

[GrooveDrummin]

Thank you!

[SpaceAndrew]

Great sounding kit! And this was a great lesson too. Though I do agree with Fuhkinay that you should add a part where you play it in slow motion for us slow learners.

[1948Bonzo]

Hi i was Just wondering if Bonham ever did any doubles with his foot when he did any of these Drum fills and Triplets??

[GrooveDrummin]

Yes he did, that will be in the next lesson.

[1948Bonzo]

Alright cool thanks man.

[TheKickassdrummer]

When I play the "Bonham triplet thing" I lead with the left, right or the kick. Always try to learn this lick every different way that you can. You won't believe how different the same pattern will sound just by leading with different limbs

[GrooveDrummin]

I am aware of that but I am demonstrating how Bonzo played his fills and it was done L-R-F. Never R-L-F or F-L-R this is obviously due to the sound and if you don't play it this way you are not doing the "Bonham triplet thing" correctly.

[squeezemylever5]

i actually usually lead with the bass drum when i do triplets

[GrooveDrummin]

That's fine but it will sound different.

[UberPiroxsFriend]

Awesome lessons keep them coming Dan! Its great to hear you talk aswell!

[canelorias]

awsome!!

[fuhkinay]

Great! My only suggestion would be to try to slow it down a bit more for those of us who are slow learners. :)

[GrooveDrummin]

Agreed....point well taken, thanks!

[Ipleadthafif67]

wow amazing drumming the kid is alright

[GrooveDrummin]

thanks

[Ipleadthafif67]

neil peart is not that great i just watched him hes not doing a style just really fancy rudiments im so sick of everyboddy saying hes the god of drumming hes been playing the same fucking drum solo for 20 YEARS!!!!!

[gmcjetpilot]

At 0.55 you say there is no double kicks?

But at 3:05 you double kick, got you...ha ha

Good video. Where was this 34 years ago when I was learning. 11 stars....

[GrooveDrummin]

hehe...good thing it was at the end when the lesson was over...haha....EDIT

Thanks

[hjkklmp]

great job man you are one of the best Bonham Cover i´ve ever seen(sorry for my bad english :-))

[ps454]

Fantastic***** It is about time someone broke down the magic of JB.. I look forward to lesson 3++++

Pete

[jazzaholick]

Sweet!!! 5*s your the best at Bonham covers and style. I love your triplets. PS thanx for the friend add :) keep up the good work, peace

E

[HolandesFrito]

Wow! What an amazing sound!

Five stars

[unmasked90]

awesome !!

u are the best!

[AlainHubert]

Great tips! I remember practicing these back when I was about 15 years old... Every young drummer should practice those, and making sure that it flows smoothly, like a round wheel. The trick is to start slow.

Looking forward to lesson #3 !

On behalf of all the young Bonham fans out there, thanks Dan!