The NDP have no credibility on this issue. For years now they haven't done anything to at least get Senators elected to the Upper House. Rather they've wasted their time promoting, like Christopherson, a referendum on abolish or not, which would do nothing to actually abolish it anyways. The senate is part of our constitutional framework which means parliament would need to vote in favour of abolishing it, as well as provinces representing at least 50%+1 of the Canadian population.
@Cnd1867 I'm a New Democrat, and I don't necessarily believe that the Senate should be abolished; sober second thought is important. I also know that the cost of a referendum is perhaps not something our country can afford right now, and that it would not be legally binding. It's upsetting that none of the parties can come to a consensus on this issue... I mean, it's 2011 and we still have an unelected body with the power to shoot down legislation passed by the House.
@Cnd1867 But what I would say is most upsetting is PM Harper campaigning on the promise that he would not make any Senate appointments until reform was complete, then turning around and appointing, to date, 38 unelected Senators. What does that say about the Conservative Party's credibility on this issue?
If we can't trust any of the parties on Senate reform, then I think a referendum is (perhaps) our only option to have our voices heard.
@deathbystarship Ok it's upsetting, but I think the worse part is him making the promise in the first place, because he has the duty and right to appoint these Senators, and overall I think its better for the country to have those positions filled. I don't think you can say the CPC's credibility is done on this, because its the PM who makes these appointments not the govt. as a whole. We are the only party talking about bringing democracy to that institution opposed by everyone else
@Cnd1867 Of course the PM has the right to appoint senators, but that's what we're debating, isn't it? He said he wouldn't, but he did. "It's the PM who makes these appointments not the govt as a whole" I think that's absolutely dictatorial.
I've read that since the 1970s, twenty-eight senate reform bills have been put forward for debate, and all have failed. The problem is that all the politicians DO is "talk about bringing democracy" to the Senate and nothing ever happens.
@deathbystarship I'm sorry I'm tired of the opposition using words like dictatorial. What's dictatorial is ending democratic elections or closing Canada's borders, appointing Senators is nowhere near deserving of that word, especially since those Senators not been close to being harper's servants at every turn.
As for only talking about it: Harper has been doing what he needs to to get things to changed, by making sure that before appointing people they accept changes to the Senate.
@deathbystarship Let's face it, the Liberals had majorities in the Senate during most of Mulroney's years, and since the mid 90's. And what's the NDP's first reaction to the government proposing changes to the way they are chosen? Oppose Oppose Oppose, and on top of that, propose something that has an even smaller chance of getting passed than the government's legislation. I'm saying Harper breaking that one promise is worth the end result of getting people in there who want change.
@Cnd1867 Well, "dictatorial" was an exaggeration. But it's probably because I still have a bad taste in my mouth from when Harper prorogued Parliament, and then filled the Senate to make sure the Liberals wouldn't if they formed a left-wing coalition. I have a feeling that the NDP will again oppose anything that the government proposes. They oppose because they've been in opposition their entire history, and they have no muscle in the Senate. But we'll see what happens in the next four years.
@Cnd1867 Harper breaking that one promise shows, precisely, that he, and his party, have no principles. And yes, it seems everything the CPC do is a means to justify their ends, just like at the debate, or lack thereof, of Bill C-10. Its ironic that you talk about how Harper wants to bring "democracy" to the Senate when he in fact appointed former MPs to the Senate who LOST in the last federal election!
Hahaha get em timmay
Andyspills10 3 months ago
The NDP have no credibility on this issue. For years now they haven't done anything to at least get Senators elected to the Upper House. Rather they've wasted their time promoting, like Christopherson, a referendum on abolish or not, which would do nothing to actually abolish it anyways. The senate is part of our constitutional framework which means parliament would need to vote in favour of abolishing it, as well as provinces representing at least 50%+1 of the Canadian population.
Cnd1867 6 months ago
@Cnd1867 I'm a New Democrat, and I don't necessarily believe that the Senate should be abolished; sober second thought is important. I also know that the cost of a referendum is perhaps not something our country can afford right now, and that it would not be legally binding. It's upsetting that none of the parties can come to a consensus on this issue... I mean, it's 2011 and we still have an unelected body with the power to shoot down legislation passed by the House.
deathbystarship 6 months ago
@Cnd1867 But what I would say is most upsetting is PM Harper campaigning on the promise that he would not make any Senate appointments until reform was complete, then turning around and appointing, to date, 38 unelected Senators. What does that say about the Conservative Party's credibility on this issue?
If we can't trust any of the parties on Senate reform, then I think a referendum is (perhaps) our only option to have our voices heard.
deathbystarship 6 months ago
@deathbystarship Ok it's upsetting, but I think the worse part is him making the promise in the first place, because he has the duty and right to appoint these Senators, and overall I think its better for the country to have those positions filled. I don't think you can say the CPC's credibility is done on this, because its the PM who makes these appointments not the govt. as a whole. We are the only party talking about bringing democracy to that institution opposed by everyone else
Cnd1867 5 months ago
@Cnd1867 Of course the PM has the right to appoint senators, but that's what we're debating, isn't it? He said he wouldn't, but he did. "It's the PM who makes these appointments not the govt as a whole" I think that's absolutely dictatorial.
I've read that since the 1970s, twenty-eight senate reform bills have been put forward for debate, and all have failed. The problem is that all the politicians DO is "talk about bringing democracy" to the Senate and nothing ever happens.
deathbystarship 5 months ago
@deathbystarship I'm sorry I'm tired of the opposition using words like dictatorial. What's dictatorial is ending democratic elections or closing Canada's borders, appointing Senators is nowhere near deserving of that word, especially since those Senators not been close to being harper's servants at every turn.
As for only talking about it: Harper has been doing what he needs to to get things to changed, by making sure that before appointing people they accept changes to the Senate.
Cnd1867 5 months ago
@deathbystarship Let's face it, the Liberals had majorities in the Senate during most of Mulroney's years, and since the mid 90's. And what's the NDP's first reaction to the government proposing changes to the way they are chosen? Oppose Oppose Oppose, and on top of that, propose something that has an even smaller chance of getting passed than the government's legislation. I'm saying Harper breaking that one promise is worth the end result of getting people in there who want change.
Cnd1867 5 months ago
@Cnd1867 Well, "dictatorial" was an exaggeration. But it's probably because I still have a bad taste in my mouth from when Harper prorogued Parliament, and then filled the Senate to make sure the Liberals wouldn't if they formed a left-wing coalition. I have a feeling that the NDP will again oppose anything that the government proposes. They oppose because they've been in opposition their entire history, and they have no muscle in the Senate. But we'll see what happens in the next four years.
deathbystarship 5 months ago
@Cnd1867 Harper breaking that one promise shows, precisely, that he, and his party, have no principles. And yes, it seems everything the CPC do is a means to justify their ends, just like at the debate, or lack thereof, of Bill C-10. Its ironic that you talk about how Harper wants to bring "democracy" to the Senate when he in fact appointed former MPs to the Senate who LOST in the last federal election!
OpenERP1 1 week ago