The exhaust flames during start up are no big deal. It is just hot unburned fuel hitting the oxygen in the atmosphere. The pilot will adjust the fuel mixture after the engine warms up.
Germans are not racists.The German state persecutes German people in the same way as foreigners.Torture and murder are seen as normal tools of the state because Germans get accustomed to this since beeing young children.So no German would ever complain.In no other country torture and murder by the state is accepted.Consequently foreigners being persecuted in Germany are complaining.This gives the completely false picture of Germans being racist.They are not.They are only NAZIs.See my homepage.
Germans are not racists.The German state persecutes German people in the same way as foreigners.Torture and murder are seen as normal tools of the state because Germans get accustomed to this since beeing young children.So no German would ever complain.In no other country torture and murder by the state is accepted.Consequently foreigners being persecuted in Germany are complaining.This gives the completely false picture of Germans being racist.They are not.They are only NAZIs.See my homepage.
Close...very close. DC-6 engines were mostly R-2800-CB-16 whereas those in that C-131 Samaritan were R-2800-99W. Not much of a difference, mostly one is a civilian variant whereas -99W is military.
@Roundmotor1 I understand there was NO difference between R2800 radial engines in the Convair 240 and the Martin 404. We had both landing at the airport when I was young. Eastern with the Martin and AA with the Convain. I also thought the engines were the same but the Martin's sounded louder with more of a drone and I think it was the short exhaust pipe verses the exhaust runnng to the back on the wing on the Convair. But the same engine none the less right?
A flame-out on a North Central plane (Convair 580?) ready for take-off. Makes you just long for those olden days of U.S. commercial avaqition. Pass the ear-plugs please!
Reminds me of the times I flew in both Delta & Eastern's Convair 440s. They were comfortable props to fly in. You were not squezed in like on todays jets. Plus it was much quieter airborne than the Martin 404 of Southern Airways.
Ah.... but Lycosaurs do not have over 2000 hp either ;-). Seriously though it is not considered as a big deal with big radials. Sometimes it just happens. Probably a good thing though that the exhaust ejectors have been plumbered to the trailing edge of the wing in that Convair....
I've seen video of Connie engines throwing fire too, it was part of the show back in the good old days of piston airliners. Yeah the Lycoming is a toy compared to these monsters, but it powers the Skyhawk quite nicely.
@ovalila they just do that, the fuel and oil that collects in the lower cylinders is the culprit , thats what makes the smoke and fire, nothing can compare in my view,jets are cool but round engines rule
THank you very kindly for explaining this. I talked with a former hostess from TWA (The airline I worked with for about 29years) and she worked on the Connie. She told me that seeing the flames was perfectly normal. Oh the stories she told about that!!! LOL!!!! Thanks again for a great video.
I'm from the jet days as a f/a so please forgive my ignorance when I ask this...I noticed some flame shoot out the back of the engine so I was wondering, is that normal? Great vid tho! :)
Well..... not exactly "normal", but not unheard of either. As you can see from both mine and Charley's comments, the C-121 had stood for quite a while so it required a bit of a prime. While he was working on the starter and the primer, I was fumbling about with mags, mixture and a camcorder.... and I have only 2 hands :-) . So slightly overprimed but nothing really outraging except for some flames that were fast blown out by the propwash. Makes some nice vid material nevertheless.
Use to go to the Roanoke airport in the 1950's to watch those radials start up. Man was it always exciting. American had Convair 240's and Eastern Martin 404s. I was told back then both had P&W R2800's. But the Martins sounded louder and sometimes would back fire like a shotgun going off. I think it was because on the Martin the exhaust pipes were under the engine just behind the props like the DC-3and the 240 was behind the wing all the way back. that made the engine louder on the Martin.
ORVO! Hey man, I remember this! Stupid damned engine wouldn't catch then I overprimed it. Totally dig seeing the flame shoot out of the augmentors! If I remember correctly we were going to crank up the ex Finnair 440 but it was out of fuel, so 3AT had to substitute. Did we fire up the DC3 too? Hope you're doing well, hell it's only been 6 years now.
DUDE!! I've been looking for you from everywhere! Yeah the plan was to run up N202RA but she was out of batteries ( or fuel? ) so we started the C-121 in stead. I would not say overprimed.... perhaps half a pint flooding over to the tarmac but of course you were not able to see that from the left seat. :-) And yes, we did fire up #1 engine of Vera Lynn II also but #2 was out of commission due to bad prop governor.
I remember seeing Convair 440s flying into Kirkwall Airport, Orkney, in or around 1979. They were owned by Norfly Charter of Norway, who at that time owned LN-MAM, LN-MAP, and LN-KLK. I regret I never had the chance to go to the Airport and see one close up, or experience the startup. They were the only big piston engined planes I've ever seen, except Avro Shackletons of course. Great video!
I just LOVED the sound of that engine--I flew as Flight Mechanic in T-29 A , B , and D models in the late 60's and early 70's . Our jump seats were modified to sit forward and the F/M handled ALL power , from start-up to landing . Sure miss those days . I still remember the sequence ; Gear - up ; Flaps- up
Meto Power ; Climb Power ; After take-off and climb check list .
I long for the good old days when men were men, women were straight, and airplane engines were round. I believe the Air Force mechanics used to say a radial didn't need a rebuild till you could no longer jump across the oil puddle beneath each one.
I have one of these engines, and I have been told to start by *turn through 9 blades, *turn on mags, *apply primer with mixture in idle cut off, *wait for happiness and then apply mixture.
The last time I tried to start it another way I flooded it.
I would not mind having a R-2800 in my back yard either. Not sure how much the neighbours would like it though.... ;-)
9 blades, mags hot and add mixture was pretty much what we did on that day and it paid off eventually. But as you saw it came pretty close to flooding too.
The CV-440 was the main domestic airplane of Scandinavian Airlines System from 1956 until 1972. And SAS still had a few CV-440's in service until September 1976.
the reason fro this startup is the engines are mostly full of oil to keep the cool and this oil goes to towards ground cuz the gravity. at the startup the oil gets burned by the hot engine then all the make much smoke and when this enough oil it burns. the most startups of old engines like this behave like this no one must be worried about the fire, but when the fire comes out of the front, then you must be worried then this normally dont happen(when the smoke turns black and the engine fail)
hahahaha YEEEEAAAHH!!! love those radials... so used to hearing jets, its been along time since ive heard those radials crank up, but ill get a chance again @ airventure 2008!!! that thing must have been surging with fuel since there was a nice flame out of the back of the nacelle
Oho enpäs huomannut että täällä oli lisää kommentteja.... tuo C-121 oli seissyt noin kolmisen kuukautta tuossa vaiheessa ja sitä ryypytettiin melko huolella ennen käynnistystä. Mikä sitten jäljessä näkyykin.
R-2800 radials can be a bit temperamental to start and this one had been standing for a few weeks so we really needed to prime it well. Part of the problem was me fumbling with mags and mixtures ( a bit late ) and trying to shoot with the camcorder, while the pilot was operating the starter, booster pump and primer.
Nice job, I have a question. When you are through cranking with the mags off, has the engine been primed already? After the mags are switched on do you continue to hit the primer intermittenly until the engine is running or do you just wait until it fires and mix in auto rich? Looks like a handful to start.
I'm by no means a specialist on what it comes to radial starting and I believe there are various ways and preferences on the subject. In this case anyway, the procedure went on: Prime first, set mixture lean, crank starter, count 9 blades, mags hot, mixture auto-rich and keep priming and cranking until engine catches. And yeah, catching might take a while sometimes so priming intermittently using common sense...;-)
Y'know I wish I could give you a 100% certain answer but I lost all my still photos of those planes in a tragic hard drive disaster.... However I believe the plane in case is N973AT, c/n 257 since that is listed in oldprops Convair list as located in Denton, where this was shot back in Feb -03. I thought I'd lost this clip too but found it in a CD during a move. Yes, I do my backups now, thanks for asking....;-)
Thanks, I think you're right about it being N973AT. It has a red ring around the intake of the engine cowling and stribes on the tip of the prop blades.
The exhaust flames during start up are no big deal. It is just hot unburned fuel hitting the oxygen in the atmosphere. The pilot will adjust the fuel mixture after the engine warms up.
hawkint 1 year ago
Germans are not racists.The German state persecutes German people in the same way as foreigners.Torture and murder are seen as normal tools of the state because Germans get accustomed to this since beeing young children.So no German would ever complain.In no other country torture and murder by the state is accepted.Consequently foreigners being persecuted in Germany are complaining.This gives the completely false picture of Germans being racist.They are not.They are only NAZIs.See my homepage.
wwwtotalitaerde 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Germans are not racists.The German state persecutes German people in the same way as foreigners.Torture and murder are seen as normal tools of the state because Germans get accustomed to this since beeing young children.So no German would ever complain.In no other country torture and murder by the state is accepted.Consequently foreigners being persecuted in Germany are complaining.This gives the completely false picture of Germans being racist.They are not.They are only NAZIs.See my homepage.
wwwtotalitaerde 1 year ago
Close...very close. DC-6 engines were mostly R-2800-CB-16 whereas those in that C-131 Samaritan were R-2800-99W. Not much of a difference, mostly one is a civilian variant whereas -99W is military.
ovalila 1 year ago
@ovalila
The C-131 used the R 2800-103W the T-29 used the 99W
Roundmotor1 11 months ago
@Roundmotor1 I understand there was NO difference between R2800 radial engines in the Convair 240 and the Martin 404. We had both landing at the airport when I was young. Eastern with the Martin and AA with the Convain. I also thought the engines were the same but the Martin's sounded louder with more of a drone and I think it was the short exhaust pipe verses the exhaust runnng to the back on the wing on the Convair. But the same engine none the less right?
boblackey1 7 months ago
No backfire, so a good start. The fire just cleans out the accumulated oil
and grease, LoL....
harmgb1 1 year ago
So badass!!!
motorcopjoe 1 year ago
A flame-out on a North Central plane (Convair 580?) ready for take-off. Makes you just long for those olden days of U.S. commercial avaqition. Pass the ear-plugs please!
ButchEkstrom 1 year ago
Easy there Turbo!
FEDEXMD11 2 years ago
Reminds me of the times I flew in both Delta & Eastern's Convair 440s. They were comfortable props to fly in. You were not squezed in like on todays jets. Plus it was much quieter airborne than the Martin 404 of Southern Airways.
022921 2 years ago
Good video. As a passenger I too would be alarmed seeing the engine throw fire while starting up. Lycoming 320's don't do that as a rule.
bagelboi66 2 years ago
Ah.... but Lycosaurs do not have over 2000 hp either ;-). Seriously though it is not considered as a big deal with big radials. Sometimes it just happens. Probably a good thing though that the exhaust ejectors have been plumbered to the trailing edge of the wing in that Convair....
ovalila 2 years ago
I've seen video of Connie engines throwing fire too, it was part of the show back in the good old days of piston airliners. Yeah the Lycoming is a toy compared to these monsters, but it powers the Skyhawk quite nicely.
bagelboi66 2 years ago
Outstanding,love to see them cough and spit a little before startup.
schnellguy 2 years ago
Golden days... stupid jet engines...
RMcHawk 2 years ago 9
I would shit in my pants if i were going to fly with that one...but what do i know, maybe thats a typical startup
kuksugarolle 2 years ago
Almost typical Olle. Almost :-)
ovalila 2 years ago
@ovalila they just do that, the fuel and oil that collects in the lower cylinders is the culprit , thats what makes the smoke and fire, nothing can compare in my view,jets are cool but round engines rule
wlh1usa 1 year ago
THank you very kindly for explaining this. I talked with a former hostess from TWA (The airline I worked with for about 29years) and she worked on the Connie. She told me that seeing the flames was perfectly normal. Oh the stories she told about that!!! LOL!!!! Thanks again for a great video.
twboi75 2 years ago
I'm from the jet days as a f/a so please forgive my ignorance when I ask this...I noticed some flame shoot out the back of the engine so I was wondering, is that normal? Great vid tho! :)
twboi75 2 years ago
Well..... not exactly "normal", but not unheard of either. As you can see from both mine and Charley's comments, the C-121 had stood for quite a while so it required a bit of a prime. While he was working on the starter and the primer, I was fumbling about with mags, mixture and a camcorder.... and I have only 2 hands :-) . So slightly overprimed but nothing really outraging except for some flames that were fast blown out by the propwash. Makes some nice vid material nevertheless.
ovalila 2 years ago
Use to go to the Roanoke airport in the 1950's to watch those radials start up. Man was it always exciting. American had Convair 240's and Eastern Martin 404s. I was told back then both had P&W R2800's. But the Martins sounded louder and sometimes would back fire like a shotgun going off. I think it was because on the Martin the exhaust pipes were under the engine just behind the props like the DC-3and the 240 was behind the wing all the way back. that made the engine louder on the Martin.
boblackey1 2 years ago
ORVO! Hey man, I remember this! Stupid damned engine wouldn't catch then I overprimed it. Totally dig seeing the flame shoot out of the augmentors! If I remember correctly we were going to crank up the ex Finnair 440 but it was out of fuel, so 3AT had to substitute. Did we fire up the DC3 too? Hope you're doing well, hell it's only been 6 years now.
cheers,
Charley
seatfool 2 years ago
DUDE!! I've been looking for you from everywhere! Yeah the plan was to run up N202RA but she was out of batteries ( or fuel? ) so we started the C-121 in stead. I would not say overprimed.... perhaps half a pint flooding over to the tarmac but of course you were not able to see that from the left seat. :-) And yes, we did fire up #1 engine of Vera Lynn II also but #2 was out of commission due to bad prop governor.
ovalila 2 years ago
I remember seeing Convair 440s flying into Kirkwall Airport, Orkney, in or around 1979. They were owned by Norfly Charter of Norway, who at that time owned LN-MAM, LN-MAP, and LN-KLK. I regret I never had the chance to go to the Airport and see one close up, or experience the startup. They were the only big piston engined planes I've ever seen, except Avro Shackletons of course. Great video!
TommyWylie 2 years ago
yeah!!!
is very good the Pratt and Whitney r-2800
beautiful
Pablo221sp 2 years ago
I just LOVED the sound of that engine--I flew as Flight Mechanic in T-29 A , B , and D models in the late 60's and early 70's . Our jump seats were modified to sit forward and the F/M handled ALL power , from start-up to landing . Sure miss those days . I still remember the sequence ; Gear - up ; Flaps- up
Meto Power ; Climb Power ; After take-off and climb check list .
jerryg65 3 years ago
I long for the good old days when men were men, women were straight, and airplane engines were round. I believe the Air Force mechanics used to say a radial didn't need a rebuild till you could no longer jump across the oil puddle beneath each one.
rickey5353 3 years ago
I have one of these engines, and I have been told to start by *turn through 9 blades, *turn on mags, *apply primer with mixture in idle cut off, *wait for happiness and then apply mixture.
The last time I tried to start it another way I flooded it.
tlfrantz1 3 years ago
Nice!
I would not mind having a R-2800 in my back yard either. Not sure how much the neighbours would like it though.... ;-)
9 blades, mags hot and add mixture was pretty much what we did on that day and it paid off eventually. But as you saw it came pretty close to flooding too.
ovalila 3 years ago
I agree on that note, it does look a wee bit over primed, but the flames are something to see.
Easyjet8810 3 years ago
Reminds me of flying RyanAir.
smileychirk 3 years ago
So cool!
The CV-440 was the main domestic airplane of Scandinavian Airlines System from 1956 until 1972. And SAS still had a few CV-440's in service until September 1976.
mortdk 3 years ago
the reason fro this startup is the engines are mostly full of oil to keep the cool and this oil goes to towards ground cuz the gravity. at the startup the oil gets burned by the hot engine then all the make much smoke and when this enough oil it burns. the most startups of old engines like this behave like this no one must be worried about the fire, but when the fire comes out of the front, then you must be worried then this normally dont happen(when the smoke turns black and the engine fail)
Powertampa 3 years ago
hahahaha YEEEEAAAHH!!! love those radials... so used to hearing jets, its been along time since ive heard those radials crank up, but ill get a chance again @ airventure 2008!!! that thing must have been surging with fuel since there was a nice flame out of the back of the nacelle
Greendayfan0921 3 years ago
Man, those things sure run rich at startup.
waverly24 3 years ago
Really nice !!!
Billyothon 3 years ago
Excellent video!
I work as a volontaire at Västerås aviation museum, where we fly the CV-440 simulator every sunday.
I would just love to get a good quality sound recording from inside the cockpit, of the engines starting up.
Many of the old Convair pilots that has visited our sim told us they often had problems with flames and fire during startup.
The right thing to do, was just to continue and start the engine, and let the prop blow the flames out.
CrouchOh 3 years ago
A little less prime is what's required. You don't prime so much that it blows past the valves and into the muffler box.
jetpilote 3 years ago
WONDERFULLY tempermental beasties! Encore!!
Shalinar45 4 years ago
koska toi on viimeks käynnistetty `? :D
juppetus12345 4 years ago
Oho enpäs huomannut että täällä oli lisää kommentteja.... tuo C-121 oli seissyt noin kolmisen kuukautta tuossa vaiheessa ja sitä ryypytettiin melko huolella ennen käynnistystä. Mikä sitten jäljessä näkyykin.
ovalila 3 years ago
dont ya just love those engines!
krowndeck 4 years ago
cooooool
dhctwo 4 years ago
I had no idea radials could be so difficult to start. I'd always heard engine fires were a possibility during start!
drummermike99 4 years ago
R-2800 radials can be a bit temperamental to start and this one had been standing for a few weeks so we really needed to prime it well. Part of the problem was me fumbling with mags and mixtures ( a bit late ) and trying to shoot with the camcorder, while the pilot was operating the starter, booster pump and primer.
ovalila 4 years ago
Nice job, I have a question. When you are through cranking with the mags off, has the engine been primed already? After the mags are switched on do you continue to hit the primer intermittenly until the engine is running or do you just wait until it fires and mix in auto rich? Looks like a handful to start.
mine32222 4 years ago
I'm by no means a specialist on what it comes to radial starting and I believe there are various ways and preferences on the subject. In this case anyway, the procedure went on: Prime first, set mixture lean, crank starter, count 9 blades, mags hot, mixture auto-rich and keep priming and cranking until engine catches. And yeah, catching might take a while sometimes so priming intermittently using common sense...;-)
ovalila 4 years ago
WOW! She really flamed up
convaircrazy 4 years ago
Nice video! Which Convair is this (serial/reg) and when was it recorded? Thanks
a26invader 4 years ago
Y'know I wish I could give you a 100% certain answer but I lost all my still photos of those planes in a tragic hard drive disaster.... However I believe the plane in case is N973AT, c/n 257 since that is listed in oldprops Convair list as located in Denton, where this was shot back in Feb -03. I thought I'd lost this clip too but found it in a CD during a move. Yes, I do my backups now, thanks for asking....;-)
ovalila 4 years ago
Thanks, I think you're right about it being N973AT. It has a red ring around the intake of the engine cowling and stribes on the tip of the prop blades.
a26invader 4 years ago