It's funny when James White and others call it a "man centered" perspective. It has nothing to do with man saving himself, it has to do with man accepting Christ and continues to love and serve Christ. Matthew 24:12-13 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, BUT the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
@jazzbummer Hey. I think what he's getting at with man-centred is where the emphasis lies. Consider "Man accepting Christ and continuing to love and serve Christ" vs "God glorifying Himself in the salvation of His people and preserving them until the end". Not that yours is wrong, but the emphasis is different, you see. Man can only accept Christ once God has granted Him a heart of flesh, and faith(Phil1:29,Jn6:44). Salvation begins and ends with God that we may only boast in Him.
@ThePuppyTurtle You cannot lose your salvation. Hebrews 6: 4-6 makes no mention of someone who is saved. It's an overreach to come to that conclusion. And, how exactly is one saved? It can't be from a simple prayer. I can't tell you how many atheists I have met in my life who have gone to Catholic school their whole lives. You would think they would of prayed at least once for salvation, wouldn't you? No,God chooses who to save and He knows who will accept Him.
@YesYou123333 No attempt to address Timothy or James, and a bare assertion fallacy for Hebrews. In what way is it an overreach to conclude that only the saved are Partakers of the Holy Spirit? And I never said, nor do I believe, that salvation is through a prayer, I believe it is through Grace given to those who repent. Contrast this with you who believes that it is given and deprived arbitrarily.
@ThePuppyTurtle Well, at least you didn't defend that phony assertion you have made about Hebrews 6. Throwing more verses out there makes you look desperate.
@YesYou123333 Yes I did defend it, Hebrews 6 says you can lose your salvation. It describes a SAVED Person in painstaking detail and says that they can fall away.
@YesYou123333 Way to Change the subject, but anyways, the only limit I put on God's love is the fact that he cannot do nonthings (Such as forcing a free choice) You however, believe God RANDOMLY and ARBITRARILY Chose not to save some, Even though he wanted to save everyone (1 Timothy 2:3-4) and was perfectly capable of doing so. Yeah, What a Guy.
@ThePuppyTurtle James 2 says nothing about a saved peron. A partaker only means a believer. The devil believes in the Holy Ghost too. Is he saved? God does nothing "randomly". He chooses those He knows will accept Him.
@YesYou123333 Hebrews 6 mentions Partakers of the Holy Ghost. James 2 Teaches Salvation by Faith and Works. Partake entails more then belief, I believe in premarital sex. but I do not partake in it. Likewise, Some may believe in the Holy spirit without partaking of Him as I do.
@YesYou123333 If You read the context, it is addressing saved people. It lists several characteristics of the Saved, And says that They can fall away. You also are yet to address James 2 and haven't acknowledged 1 Timothy 2: 3-4. And Once you say it CERTAINLY doesn't mean saved, YOU Accept the burden of Proof. So please say what else Partakers of the Holy Ghost Could POSSIBLY mean and demonstrate that's what it does mean.
I am NOT offended By The cross. But what I AM offended about is when People say this is what My Pastor Believes as opposed to this is What the bible says. I Reject KJV ONLY People and Churches. I reject Assembly of God,calvary Chapel,Mormons,Jehovahs WSitness,Catholic.Foursquare,Seventh day Adventist, And MANY Other Cults out there today. I ONLY attend a Non denominational Christian Church,and While I Disagree with Rick warren,His Style Of Music is The way ALL Churches should be.
@lasvegastroll I have attended Rick Warrens church many times as my mother is in the Choir. But you just people need to say this is "What the Bible says" and end with the "style" of music. That has nothing to do with the Bible.
If people are offended by the cross -- that's their problem. If people are offended by the truth -- that's their problem. Passion for the truth is right.
@Keruaran-- "not a single author who wrote any book..." God is the author. He is inerrant. That is the point you don't seem to get. Men wrote the Bible under direct revelation from God Himself. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. Or don't care to understand.
@Keruaran sorry... I am not sure where this came from. It is my user name, but I didn't post this. I need to look into this. I think I may have been hacked. My hotmail was recently. Sorry for any inconvenience.
There is a lot of misunderstanding in the comments and I do note that most of the misrepresentation concerns Reformed Theology or 'Calvinism' (a term I dislike since the doctrines of grace were held dear by all the reformers though Calivn was indeed one of them). It really does help if you take the time to understand what you criticise so that when you do criticise you're actually representing what others hold dear correctly.
To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
short answer, ignore them as they are obviously (preordained) to hold false beliefs about God and burn burn burn... this sort of 'hands off' theology really simplifies things... if God foresaw all those who would ultimately accept Him, rejecting all else, what power do any of you elect have over the non elect? none... also is your own faith a sign that you are elected? are you sure?
@cwross1976 So youre saying that every person who is saved has to understand every bit of the bible perfectly and if they misunderstand something or happen to be mistaken or they just arent intelligent enough to understand the Bible perfectly they're not saved...even though they believe in Jesus and believe he died for their sins and was raised on the third day ect,,,I think we need to stop pointing fingers at one another like this everyone is struggling to understand the truth and its a journey
Even though I am in TOTAL disagreement with White on this issue I must say that I am soooo glad that he answered as he did. I agree with extended grace to one another on this issue.
Calvinism is objectively false. You have to believe that the mythic Adam and Eve were the first humans, but anthropology demonstrates that the genus Homo (humans) is at least 2 million years old. Sapiens (us and supposedly Adam and Eve) are a mere 200,000 years old. There were lots of other human species before us. Demonstrated fact contradicts Calvinist nonsense. It is a late medieval superstition invented by a third-rate French lawyer who wanted to be a theocrat in Geneva. It's absurd.
@candiceevans1 The texts collected in the Bible are not the inerrant words of anybody. They are human documents written by humans for human purposes and express ideas in human terms that are inherently error prone. The dogma of an inerrant, infallible document is a preposterous superstition invented not by the people who wrote the texts in the Bible but by people who lived centuries, even thousands of years, after them. Not a single author included in the Bible claims to be inerrant.
Hmm that comment isn't going to stand up to scriptural scrutiny.
"You have to believe that the mythic Adam and Eve..."
Ah, Biblical inerrancy is out the door from the outset. Your problem isn't Calvinism, its inerrancy. You have a problem believing the Bible itself, period.
@Keruaran Not a single author who wrote any book of the Bible ever claimed to be inerrant. Not one. So were do you get the idea that the Bible is inerrant? Certainly not from the Bible itself. Why do I need to believe a dogma that you merely made up?
I'm not really interested in getting into an argument on inerrancy with somebody who doesn't believe in the inerrancy of sciripture and therefore probably isn't going to accept an argument for inerrancy from scripture anyway. (Selah...) The point is that its just silly to argue about Calvinism when you don't actually believe in the very scriptures that both Calvinists and Arminians will appeal to in support of their respective arguments.
@Keruaran In other words unless I accept both inerrancy and Calvinism, there's no point in discussing my disagreement with inerrancy and Calvinism. What an interesting approach: we can discuss your disagreements with me if and only you agree with me to begin with. I don't need the Bible to disprove Calvinism. I need only biology and anthropology both of which conclusively demonstrate that the dogma on which Calvinism stands--original sin--is preposterous.
No, I'm saying I'm not interested in getting into a debate with someone I don't believe can be reasoned with from scripture. And I'm saying that unless that ground is covered first, a debate about Calvinism is meaningless.
@Keruaran I don't play the Calvinist proof-text word game with the Bible. Bible verses don't trump demonstrated scientific fact. Cavinism is a late medieval superstition created by a man who had absolutely zero knowledge about the way the world really works. Calvinism is false because the world-view on which it rests is demonstrably false. There is no debate between medieval ignorance and modern knowledge. Knowledge wins.
you cannot take specific pieces of scripture and use them to support what you believe. All these comments seem to do that. When you lay the whole bible out on the table and study it as a whole, predestination is real and undeniable. I won't say I'm a Calvinist because i have never read a work of Calvin and because of 1 Corinthians 1:12-13. I have only read the bible and see true sovereignty of God
Because of ADAMS sin; God creates ALL people DEAD in their mothers womb. God purposely manufactures defective material Preprogrammed to Sin & ONLY Sin, lacking ALL ability to repent or Beg for Mercy, w/the Majority PREDESTINED for DAMNATION God being angry w/them EVERYDAY Ps.7:11, yet COMMANDED by God to Repent, His GENERAL CALL though Jesus NEVER died for them on the cross to begin with & The minority CHOSEN for Glory.
@EverydayRevival "All men are condemned for their sin, except those that God has elected to save."
Liar! Be a consistent Calvinist "Al MEN are Condemned because of ADAMS Sin" not for their own sins.
In fact, you believe that God HATED the Majority of the World & predestined the Majority for HELL "BEFORE having done ANYTHING either GOOD or BAD in order that Gods purpose of Election might continue".
THIS is YOUR gospel "Oh how beautiful are the feet of those who preach the SOVEREIGNTY of God"
I have a question for all Calvinists! If God willed men to go to hell by divine election, why did He say He is not willing that any should perish? Is God a liar? Another Question. If God only elected a special few, why did He tell the disciples whosoever believes and is baptized shall be saved, and whoever believes in Him shall not perish, God so loved the world that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish.Not only would you be spreading a lie you would by your notion be saying God lies.
@EverydayRevival Uhm no. This debauched bit of exegesis, claiming 2 Peter 3:9 is about 'the elect' is neo-calvinist newspeak. Even Calvin himself attested to the universal offer of salvation in this text. Let me guess: 1 John 2:2 also refers to the 'elect' only?
@zeph317 continue... Jesus says the same thing in John 6:47 ("...he who believes has eternal life"). But he speaks of man's ability (or inability) shortly thereafter: "no one can (ability) come to me unless it has been granted him from the Father" (John 6:65). So in reality John 3:16 is not a passage contrary to Calvinism.
@BulldoggiesHotDogs Yeah John 3:16 is in actuality a strong verse for proving Calvinism, because all the believing-ones will not perish but have eternal life. The point that a lot of people miss is that believing isn't a choice so much as it is a matter of the heart, and man's heart from birth is sinful and evil continuously. Only after God has removed our heart of stone and given us a heart of flesh are capable of believing.
The Gospel is the POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION... it's not a choice!
@Aslak1Simonsen What is offensive is worshipping a deity that hates his own creation with such passion, that he arbitrarily creates human beings, who have the capacity to feel pain, for the sole purpose of damning them. That is offensive. Offensive to the character of God, and offensive to the mind as well as the heart.
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones SO YOU HATE GOD? Youre angry because GOD didnt do things your way? Youre angry that Adams sin made us dead in our sins? you want a Gospel that saves all? You just proved the Calvinist position that men hate GOD and that men cannot come to GOD unless he draws them and that men are depraved and you find Yahweh offensive,,YOU LOVE GOD ON YOUR CONDITIONS
@candiceevans1 Wait... you believe Obama is the anti-christ... Well, that explains a lot. Seriously, that alone ensures me that your theology isn't worth a cent.
@Aslak1Simonsen You are right. To use the holy words Glory Hallelujah in a context that anywhere near has to do with the calvinist vision of god, is offensive.
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones 15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." (Rom 9:15 ESV)
No one deserves mercy. Everyone deserves condemnation.
36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. (John 3:36 ESV)
Only vile sinners will be cast into Hell, people that hate God and Christ, and want nothing from Him.
@zeph317 continue... This is quite consistent with the Reformed position. There is not a problem. For the passage does not speak of ability. It simply affirms that every one of the category of believing ones have eternal life. It does not tell us who has or has not the ability to believe. We must look elsewhere for that information. Jesus says the same thing in John 6:47 ("...he who believes has eternal life"). But he speaks of man's ability (or inability) shortly thereafter: "no one ca
@zeph317 continue (under new name) Let's look at the actual wording: pas ho pisteuwn is the actual Greek phrase. It quite literally means "every one believing" (pas- "all, every," ho- article, pisteuwn- present- active- participle meaning "believing"). The verse is speaking of eternal life for every one of a certain category of people. The category is those who believe. Every one believing. This is quite consistent with the Reformed position. There is not a problem. For the passage does
@zeph317 continue... James White describes the use of whosoever in The Potter's Freedom: "Furthermore, the common misconception that John 3:16 uses an indefinite phrase, 'whosoever,' is presented as evidence against the particularity of God's work of redemption." People tend to think that whosoever means that anyone and everyone is able to choose righteousness and come to faith in Christ. It doesn't. Let's look at the actual wording: pas ho pisteuwn is the actual Greek phrase. It quite lite
@zeph317 continue... World does not have to mean every single individual. In fact the term has numerous meanings in the New Testament and especially in the Johaninne corpus. In this context it is best to use kosmos to mean people from every tribe, tongue, and nation. The next part of the passage to discuss is the translated term whosover made popular by the King James Bible. The pastor who provided me the list had this term highlighted. James White describes the use of whosoever in The Pott
@zeph317 continue... In my previous post I discussed the list given to me titled, "Passages Contrary to Calvinism." I also said that I would examine John 3:16 first. It is arguably the most well-known verse in the Bible, and it is one commonly used for the purpose of refuting Calvinism. I won't bother writing the verse out since we've all got it memorized.
The context of this passage is a soteriological discussion between Jesus and a pharisee named Nicodemus. We have to remember that Jesus
@zeph317 as to John 3:16 The context of this passage is a soteriological discussion between Jesus and a pharisee named Nicodemus. We have to remember that Jesus had just finished telling Nicodemus, "unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). This is one of the clearest passages teaching regeneration preceeding faith. Many passages used against Reformed theology end up proving universalism when pressed this way. This appears to be the case here. World does not h
Calvinists seem to be formed in one of three ways: 1) Calvinist preachers scare the living daylights out of them in a Puritan fashion, 2) They are raised in a Reformed church, or 3) they are converts who came to Christ with an Arminian understanding of free will. Nearly every Calvinist I know was either born Presbyterian/Reformed Baptist or claims to have been "enlightened" as an Arminian and repented of their past error. Is there anyone who is saved while thinking they are powerless to convert?
I'm neither an Arminian nor a Calvinist, and I'm convinced that the so-called "doctrines of grace" clearly have their origin in the sixteenth and not the first century. But although James White can be arrogant, I appreciate his willingness not to entertain people who believe non-Calvinists are damnable heretics. Reformed theology, however, IS a tradition of man, and it does very much concern me that he speaks of a conversion from Armininianism to Calvinism as if one is born again... again.
@prettylola1 If you want to be a good Augustinian Protestant, you would probably be better off if you subscribed to Lutheranism. Augustine affirmed regeneration through BAPTISM; Luther agreed but Calvin denied it. He affirmed a real physical presence of Christ in the Eucharist; Luther agreed but Calvin denied it. He affirmed the absolute theological authority of Rome [Roma locuta est; causa finita est—Rome has spoken; the case is concluded (Sermon 131, 6:10)]; all reformers strongly denied it.
@ElasticGiraffe Who said I wanted to be an Augustinian Protestant? And those "other things" have nothing to do with TULIP. I know what Augustine taught about Infant Baptism and the Eucharist, and I do not agree with either one. You are building a strawman, and I do not correspond with people that have no interest in honest dialogue.
@prettylola1 Augustine invented and affirmed a doctrine of individualistic predestination unto salvation; Luther agreed but Calvin went further and developed it into the doctrine of DOUBLE-predestination. There is dispute over whether Augustine held to a doctrine of limited atonement. If so, he was without theological precedent. I think it likely that he changed his position on it, as he did during his anti-Pelagian period after he argued for the necessity of libertarian free will for morality.
@ElasticGiraffe "Augustine invented and affirmed a doctrine of individualistic predestination unto salvation; Luther agreed but Calvin went further and developed it into the doctrine of DOUBLE-predestination." You are very misinformed on this issue.
@ElasticGiraffe "All things whatever arise from, and depend on, the divine appointment; whereby it was foreordained who should receive the word of life, and who should disbelieve it; who should be delivered from their sins, and who should be hardened in them; and who should be justified and who should be condemned." - Martin Luther
Thus, Double-Election. You are wrong and deliberately misrepresent Calvinism...not very honest!
@prettylola1 Say that Luther affirmed double-predestination to a Lutheran, and see what kind of reaction you get. For the most part, Lutherans HATE Luther himself being claimed by Calvinists because they consider Calvin's theology "too Reformed." Two points should be noted, however: 1. Martin Luther's views on the hidden will are NOT entirely or finally summed up in his On the Bondage of the Will, and 2. Martin Luther was not the only theologian to develop the theology of Lutheranism.
@prettylola1 Consider this statement in Luther's Commentary on Genesis:
"For otherwise, if someone had been predestined, he would have been saved without the Son and without the sacraments or Holy Scripture. Consequently, God, according to the blasphemy of these people, was horribly foolish when He sent His Son, promulgated the Law and the Gospel, and sent the apostles if the only thing He wanted was that we should be uncertain and in doubt whether we are to be saved or really to be damned."
@prettylola1 "The predestination or eternal election of God, however, extends only over the godly, beloved children of God, being a cause of their salvation, which He also provides, as well as disposes what belongs thereto. Upon this [predestination of God] our salvation is founded so firmly that the gates of hell cannot overcome it." (Book of Concord, Article IX, Section 5)
@prettylola1 "Therefore we reject the following [error]. . .that God is unwilling that every one should be saved, but that some, without regard to their sins, from the mere counsel, purpose, and will of God, are ordained to condemnation so that they cannot be saved." (Book of Concord, Article IX, Sections 16, 19)
The Book of Concord was published in Dresden in 1580 and CONSCIOUSLY OPPOSED the peculiarly Calvinist doctrines of double-predestination and limited atonement.
@prettylola1 Before you accuse me of intellectual dishonesty or of misrepresenting Luther as more of a "Lutheran" than a Calvinist, you should consider ALL of Luther's writings on the subject as well as the earliest creeds of Lutheranism.
The sad fact is that Calvinism is its own soteriological island. No mainstream theological system in the history of Christianity EXCEPT Calvinism posits that God has secretly decreed, according to a hidden will, that this or that individual be eternally damned.
@ElasticGiraffe I guess you have read all of Luther's writings and all creeds of Lutheranism and all mainstream theological systems throughout the history of Christianity haven't you?
@bull1504 I'm well acquainted with the historical development of theology. I don't need to read every creed in Christendom to say with confidence that there has never been any Christian tradition like Calvinism prior to the Reformation. The Catholic Jansenists were radical Augustinians who held some of the same beliefs about the nature of original sin and predestination, but that movement originated in the 17th century.
@bull1504 well...you replied to @prettylola that she/he should consider "ALL of Luther's writings on the subject..." etc etc...now you say that you don't have to read every creed in Christendom to say that there was no tradition like Calvinism prior to the Reformation. I think your rules are unfair. Besides that, the point is not whether Calvinism existed prior to the reformation or not...that's really not important. What's important is whether "calvinism" has biblical support or not.
Arminians are idealists,,,they cant cope with the reality of GOD,,,They want GOD to be like Santa Clause and if he actually condemns people to hell THEY CANT COPE WITH IT, they want to sugar coat everything I have heard them say I cant worship a GOD that condemns most people to hell,,,well then you cant worship the GOD of the Bible,,,they dont understand that we deserve hell already,,,we are wicked ,,,I like what JW said about us being like murderers in a burning building
This is a great video. It took me awhile to accept the doctrines of grace as well. I have now come to realize that you cannot force these doctrines on anyone, but can only explain what you believe and God must do the rest.
Please, you're a pastor in mordern day american where there are thousands upon thousands of pastors. Why don't you go to the nations and stop trying to win a theological debate you hypcrotical...
Yes yes yes! It took me 14 years before I was ready to accept these doctrines. And that was a work God did in my heart. In fact, I put off reading about it until I sensed I was ready. I knew God was preparing me to learn these things, and I couldn't accept it until I was prepared.
"He who does not hate the false does not love the true; and he to whom it is all the same whether it be God’s word or man’s, is himself unrenewed at heart." - Spurgeon
"Men do not naturally love the Doctrines of Grace and, therefore, they cast them out of their minds as much as possible. The larger portion of mankind do not believe that salvation is of Grace - another part of them profess to believe it but do not understand its meaning—and many who do understand it have never yielded to it or embraced it......!" - Spurgeon
"We have nowadays around us a class of men who preach Christ, and even preach the gospel; but then they preach a great deal else which is not true, and thus they destroy the good of all that they deliver, and lure men to error. They would be styled "evangelical" and yet be of the school which is really anti-evangelical." - Spurgeon
"I believe the man who is not willing to submit to the electing love and sovereign grace... of God, has great reason to question whether he is a Christian at all, for the spirit that kicks against that is the spirit of the devil, and the spirit of the unhumbled, unrenewed heart." ~Spurgeon
There seems not to be crystal CLEAR Scripture either direction but what I will say is that there was not one Apostle who would have been an example of a 'synergist' aside from maybe Judas who was not saved and even he might have known better.
I have had many try to pathetically twist Scripture to convey differently as they had believed they were saved 20+ years before becoming 'monergistic' but alas, I have not as yet had anyone bring Scripture forth that is even close to proving their perspective.
These are not complex or confusing doctrines for the saint. They are basic and esssential and for anyone to think that they can learn them LATER is what I have to conclude a tragic deception. Spurgeon seemed to think the same on the matter."
It does not matter to me that in this day and age most claim salvation without grasping the basic doctrines of GRACE....as I see nothing in the Scipture that clearly proves or disproves that is possible. I will say this: I am quite sure that it is not possible to know Christ and trust in Christ at all if one is NOT embracing the basic sovereignty of God and denying their own strength in saving themselves.
Another thing is that White asks the question to this guy "you gotta rememer, two years before you saw these things (full grace) were you unsaved????" Well I would say to James White "That is correct, I was not saved!! I would query that people who believe they were saved BEFORE recognizing the omnipotence of God were sorely deceiving themselves and everyone around them as well.
We are to judge ALL things RIGHTEOUSLY and to keep in mind that when we make mistakes in our judgements that falls directly on our own shoulders and we will be held accounted for it in eternity. So we must take it very seriously and as much as when a preacher gets up to preach. WE better be certain we are being led by the Spirit in our assessments.
I absolutely think we should be careful in our assessment of another to make certain we are forming our opinion on the facts of what they believe and not unsubstaniated ideas....but I do believe we are 'trying the spirits' when we try them and do not take their claim of knowing Christ at sheer face value.
400 years ago here in the Netherlands the followers of Gomerus and Arminius delt with each other by way of prosecution, exile, torture and killing like all good christians did in those days.
Perhaps the old ways are still usable in the USA ?
White also calls 'synergism' as SUBbiblical thing which I find funny considering it is a FALSEbiblical thing. Synergism is a bad fruit and we are to discern others by their fruit. I think it is a sign of the times that most are taking Whites direction on this matter.
Funny he admits that the recognition of 'sovereign grace' is a world changing thing that changes everything in ones life...and it is something God does when He changes someon's heart...YET he thinks that can come after regneration and is not necessarilly part of being sealed in the Spirit. He is contradicting himself here. White says it is a danger to seriously query someone's regeneration when they are hold to a human centred view of salvation YET Spurgeon did.
They who claim as White is claiming, are in the majority by far (which proves nothing to me). They only ones who seem to think otherwise, are the few I have met that never were 'synergistic saints' at any point. So there are these two very distinct camps for sure and though we do not seem to have the most obvious Scripture on the matter either way, we know that both views cannot be correct.
I would say to any newer Monergist to step back and take the Word overall and as a whole and tell me with an honest face that the Bible seems to teach that a new saint does not understand the basics of God's powerful grace and the basics of human depravity and inability!!!
It is a funny thing because EVERY single saint I have come across who claims a person can be saved years before embracing the 'omnipotent grace of God'...are the very ones who think it happened to them as well. They CLING to an early experience of some kind that is authentic to them but may or may not be in reality. Like answered prayer before salvation.
Nay, they are like oil and water and do not mix. This is what I would say to James White and most who claim this. The basic doctrine of GRACE is an easy one that every saint should be able to grasp at the time of regeneration because I know not a saint in all Scripture who displayed otherwise. Not like these days.
I do not think it is reasonable to say we know God without knowing basically the attributes of God. And how can one lean on Christ when they are still leaning on themselves for salvation? Nay, they are like oil and water and do not mix.
The basic doctrine of GRACE is an easy one that every saint should be able to grasp at the time of regeneration because I know not a saint in all Scripture who displayed otherwise. Not like these days. I am convicted that it is a modern heresy to teach otherwise as it allows the unregenerate to go on thinking they are regenerated and live in tremendous deception. That is what I call dangerous.
@ApologistDougWebb Their is a man on YouTube by the name of theabolonekid who preaches the Love of Jesus and wins many souls to the LORD. He does it with LOVE. Try reading John 5:39-42 the next time you feel like arguing over calvinistic traditions. We are saved by GRACE! It has NOTHING to do with anything we can do, all our righteousness are filthy rags compared to JESUS. And JESUS said that you would know His by their LOVE FOR ONE ANOTHER, not their arguing over John Calvin and arminians.
@mammal46 Part 2 I am not an appologist, but I do have ultimate respect and hold them in high esteem when they are taking on people like Richard Hawkins Darwins greatest admirerer. However, when a bunch of Christian Apologist get together and fight amongst themselves it is rediculous because it makes ppl like Hawkins think "look at the fools fighting amongst themselves, what a bunch of crackpots!" Esecially in arenas like YouTube! If you must quarel do it behind closed doors.
Part 3 And seriously, does either side think that you're even making the slightest difference in each other's thoughts? You'll sit there arguing with each other until JESUS COMES BACK and finds you arguing. And finds theabolonekid winning souls, JESUS is going to look at you like he did the scribes in Mark 9:16 "What is all this arguing about?"NLV
Now I know you're an appologist, and I'm just a layman so I'm sure you'll have some really kool sounding rebuttal, but I won't argue with you
Christians should learn to get along. They represent the Living GOD of the Universe. All their bickering over their trivial views make non Believers think that Christianity is a fairy tale. Really their is only one GOD, one Holy Bible, one Holy Righteous JESUS who saves us, and one salvation by HIM. All else is trivial and real Believers better start looking for common ground. It's too late in the game to be bickering like cackling hens.
Calvin believed the extent of Christ's atonement was unlimited:
"The word many does not mean a part of the world only, but the whole human race: he contrastsmany with one, as if to say the he would not be the Redeemer of one man, but would meet death to deliver many of their cursed guilt. IT IS INCONTESTABLE THAT CHRIST CAME FOR THE EXPIATION OF THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD."
@bullawaya Proverbs 16: 9 The heart of man plans his way,
but the Lord directs his steps.
Now exactly what man is left out and which steps does God not direct? God has decreed all things,you want all to mean all ,all the time,but when all the Father gives to Jesus comes to Him and are saved and all things decreed by Him can't mean all things,right?Why don't you trust God in His decisions of what He decrees and who He has decided to save? Do you not trust God to do what's right?
@bullawaya Isaiah 63:17 O LORD, why do you make us wander from your ways and harden our heart, so that we fear you not? Return for the sake of your servants, the tribes of your heritage.
Who caused the Hebrews to wander from God's ways and who hardened their hearts?
Explain the account of the sheep and goats! Explain the prodical son! Your view is so messed up and twisted that it makes no sense! YOU have but a few verses that you hang your hat on! Such a take can only be proven by twisting the rest of Scripture in order for your stance to make sense! You are heading towards heretical waters, friend! Did God create evil? Is He to blame for evil? Is he responsible for all of satan's evil doing? Did He only die for some? Thin ice, dude!
God at the mercy of Man - you say is a dangerous thing. I totally agree - read the account of the Fall - that was Adam choosing against God - very basic understanding of why the world is evil and why bad things happen to good people - not because God DOES it as you claim but rather because He ALLOWS it. Also, then read about the Flood - God chose for the world to be evil and then He destroyed the world - why not make them change - why not provide His "Irrisistible Grace" then?
@zeph317 Can God stop men from sinning?Yes he can,yet sin still exists,therefore sin has a place in God's plan.God commands men not to murder,yet He decreed sinful men would kill Jesus.God raised Pharaoh just to destroy him,that was his lot in life.God told Moses to go and tell Pharaoh to let HIS people go,yet God told Moses that HE was going to harden Pharaoh's heart even before Moses spoke to Pharaoh so he WOULDN'T LET THEM GO!
@zeph317 Isiaha 17 Why, O LORD, do you make us wander from your ways and harden our hearts so we do not revere you?He makes us wander from His ways and hardens us.Looks like you don't really know who God really is?
@CBALLEN I agree - I don't know who YOUR god is - directly. Your god is a false one, one who did not send his son so that ALL who believe can be saved. You have not answered that Scripture - what does your god say about John 3:16? I have a degree in Theology, what credentials do you have? My God "hardened" pharoahs heart by providing opportunites for him to change -as He does all people - the more you choose to go against God, the more your heart is hardened - to stone.
@zeph317 Here is the real problem ,no one is righteous ,we are all wicked and evil not wanting anything to do with God,we all want to go to Hell and if all men had FREE WILL,THEY WOULD ALL GO TO HELL,but God wanted to change some of the peoples' natures so He could have them with Him,He chose THESE before time for Himself,just like He chose Israel for Himself in the OT.So actually,most people have free will in the sense you believe,they just can't be saved by it.
@zeph317 You say that bad things happen to good people,but Jesus said none are good.We don't think our sin is that bad,but Adam just ate one piece of fruit and that caused the death of every living thing to this very day,also that was the day that entropy kicked in and is the reason that NO MAN CAN CHOOSE GOD BY HIS OWN POWER.
@zeph317 I guess I overestimated your ability to understand what is meant by "why do bad things happen to good people?" Jesus wasn't REALLY saying no one is good - including Himself! Are you saying that Jesus was not good? The man did not know who Jesus was! HE is good BUT also so much more - He is God incarnate! Sin has a "place in God's plan"? Where does it say THAT? It seems odd that one who believes that he is evil, not good, selected but not perfected, & bereft of choice is arguing!
So Lane your attitude is so NOT Christian, humbly rebuke a brother not SLAM him with cutting sarcasm. How do Calvinists read John 3:16? For God so loved the chosen part of the world that He sent his only begotten son that whosoever he chooses will not perish but have eternal life? That is adding to Scripture and, to me, is where this whole polarization is going. Satan is causing this division and giggling in mockery at God, while God knows that this will sort out the sheep and the Calvinists
Reformed theology is where you will find the truth of scripture and the Sovereignty of God realized. I recommend The Sovereignty of God by A.W. Pink . This book is rich in it's exposition of the scripture and handling of the Sovereignty of God. I strongly commend it to you who are embracing the doctrines of grace and searching the scripture for Gods truth. Be blessed in your study.
All praise and honor belong to you oh God! Thank you for salvation!
me there. That is why I am convinced that if anyone has God's Spirit dwelling within them and is offered truth, they must conform their lives to it! I am thankful that my husband was patient with me and God taught both of us that we cannot do the work of the Spirit...we can only be obedient in sharing truth and leaving the work of God up to God :) I appreciate what you do....or what God does through you I should say..haha!
Thanks for posting this!! I was converted (from spiritual death to life) about five years ago after living my life brought up in the church and not necessarily under good teaching. When God did give me a heart for Him, I came to the table with a lot of preconceived notions about who or what I thought God was like. When offered the doctrines of grace, I was offended and did not approve of the "god" that was presented so I hardened my heart against it. Thankfully, God didn't leave
good point. I believe this is against the point of "Irresistible Grace". The Bible is clear and it clearly states that we reject God's grace, but that is not what this doctrine teaches, but rather, it teaches that because God is all-powerful He can overcome our resistance. John Piper has a series on TULIP, if you'd like to hear it. it's really good! ^_^ hope you have a great day!
@buzzobugJesus said in John 6 35-37 all who come to Him will not hunger or thirst. Some refused why? verse 37 answers the reason they refused. All that the Father gives to Him will come to Him. Irresistible grace isn't what the word suggests. We mean by irresistible grace that the grace that God gives accomplishes what He intends for it to accomplish. The term is better stated as effectual Grace. Salvation is of the Lord . Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith.
Never thoiught Calvinism would be so radical to me, but it was. From the time (In an IFB college) this changed my whole view as basically I see people say they are saved by grace and act like they are saved by works. Same thing in a church I went back too-I cannot express in 500 characters what God has done in me and took many years to connect the dots. I try to encourage and challange to study the bible
I always look at it in this way-the Spirit works in Armenian circles as much as in Calvinistic churches. Yet, most often when sharing and I am known as a "Calvinist"-so many false accusations come my way. Sometimes I am able to talk to some and share and learn from others not Calvinistic Christians. Sometimes it is a matter of clearing up errors many make-other times just educating(especially from KJV types when sharing King James had much more to do with the Synod of Dort as oppose to Calvin)
I totally agree with James White. I was an Arminian for the first two years of my life, but I was still saved. I became reformed in theology for the past two years and my understanding of the bible has grew since then.
P (perseverance of the saints [or, eternal security])--Jn. 10:28: "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." Heb. 13:5: "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." I Pet. 1:5: "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." II Pet. 1:9: "But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins."
I (irresistible [or, efficacious] grace)--Eze. 36:26-27: "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." Acts 16:14: "Lydia,...which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul."
L (limited [or, definite] atonement)--Jn. 10:11, 15: "The good shepherd giveth his life for the SHEEP.....I lay down my life for the SHEEP." Rom. 8:32-33: "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for US ALL, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of GOD'S ELECT? It is God that justifieth." Eph. 5:25: "Husbands, love your wives, EVEN AS Christ also loved the CHURCH, and gave himself for IT."
U (unconditional election)--Acts 13:48: "And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." Rom. 9:16-18: "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth."
T (total depravity)--Isa. 1:5-6: "The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment." Jer. 17:9: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
"The fact that God asked man to reason with him shows that he is not going to arbitrarily deliver man and give to him blessings without man's consent. If the destiny of man is fixed, without regard to whether he accepts or rejects the provision made for him, then there would be no occasion for him to reason with the Lord. This for ever puts to silence the theory of predestination of every creature."--J.F. Rutherford, higher-up of the "Jehovah's Witnesses" cult, "Deliverance", p. 102
"I believe the man who is not willing to submit to the electing love and sovereign grace of God, has great reason to question whether he is a Christian at all, for the spirit that kicks against that is the spirit of the devil, and the spirit of the unhumbled, unrenewed heart."--Charles Spurgeon, "The Blood of the Everlasting Covenant"
"Answer me, ye that deny God's sovereignty, and hate his election—how is it that angels are condemned to everlasting fire, while to you, the children of Adam, the gospel of Christ is freely preached? The only answer that can possibly be given is this: God wills to do it. He has a right to do as he pleases with his own mercy. Angels deserve no mercy: we deserve none."--Charles Spurgeon, "Election and Holiness"
"Our Arminian antagonists always leave the fallen angels out of the question: for it is not convenient to them to recollect this ancient instance of Election. They call it unjust, that God should choose one man and not another. By what reasoning can this be unjust when they will admit that it was righteous enough in God to choose one race—the race of men, and leave another race—the race of angels, to be sunk into misery on account of sin."--Charles Spurgeon, "Election and Holiness"
Mark 9:45 "And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:" Whosover that believes that only some are predestined, please, address if Mark 9:45 is directed towards the predestined of your view or the people that are not predestined in your view, or both.
Why is this such a common view? It's just named after its major proponent. With this logic I could denounce Arminianism, Augustinianism, and even Pauline Christianity as "doctrine of men".
Yes the difference is Calvinism was not thought before Calvin. I do not know enough about Arminianism to say that same, but its probably true also. Augustine was just expounded the most and best until that point justification, free will, the things he said were already being taught.
There's comments directed at me here... wut? I don't even remember commenting on this vid. :P
Keruaran 1 month ago
It's funny when James White and others call it a "man centered" perspective. It has nothing to do with man saving himself, it has to do with man accepting Christ and continues to love and serve Christ. Matthew 24:12-13 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, BUT the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
jazzbummer 2 months ago
@jazzbummer Hey. I think what he's getting at with man-centred is where the emphasis lies. Consider "Man accepting Christ and continuing to love and serve Christ" vs "God glorifying Himself in the salvation of His people and preserving them until the end". Not that yours is wrong, but the emphasis is different, you see. Man can only accept Christ once God has granted Him a heart of flesh, and faith(Phil1:29,Jn6:44). Salvation begins and ends with God that we may only boast in Him.
m4ttieE 1 month ago
The Defense of the Calvinist Heresy is pathetic, and yes, it IS a heresy, as it denies EVERYTHING the Bible says about salvation.
ThePuppyTurtle 2 months ago
@ThePuppyTurtle
Could you be more specific about what exactly Reformed Theology 'denies' about salvation?
Keruaran 1 month ago
@Keruaran 1: God wants all to come to repentance and be saved (1 Timothy 2 3-4)
2: Salvation can be lost (Hebrews 6: 4-6)
3: Salvation is NOT by Faith alone (James 2)
Is that Enough?
ThePuppyTurtle 1 month ago
@ThePuppyTurtle You cannot lose your salvation. Hebrews 6: 4-6 makes no mention of someone who is saved. It's an overreach to come to that conclusion. And, how exactly is one saved? It can't be from a simple prayer. I can't tell you how many atheists I have met in my life who have gone to Catholic school their whole lives. You would think they would of prayed at least once for salvation, wouldn't you? No,God chooses who to save and He knows who will accept Him.
YesYou123333 3 weeks ago
@YesYou123333 No attempt to address Timothy or James, and a bare assertion fallacy for Hebrews. In what way is it an overreach to conclude that only the saved are Partakers of the Holy Spirit? And I never said, nor do I believe, that salvation is through a prayer, I believe it is through Grace given to those who repent. Contrast this with you who believes that it is given and deprived arbitrarily.
ThePuppyTurtle 3 weeks ago
@ThePuppyTurtle Well, at least you didn't defend that phony assertion you have made about Hebrews 6. Throwing more verses out there makes you look desperate.
YesYou123333 3 weeks ago
@YesYou123333 Yes I did defend it, Hebrews 6 says you can lose your salvation. It describes a SAVED Person in painstaking detail and says that they can fall away.
ThePuppyTurtle 3 weeks ago
@ThePuppyTurtle The bottom line is...you don't believe Gods love is infinite. I do.
YesYou123333 3 weeks ago
@YesYou123333 Way to Change the subject, but anyways, the only limit I put on God's love is the fact that he cannot do nonthings (Such as forcing a free choice) You however, believe God RANDOMLY and ARBITRARILY Chose not to save some, Even though he wanted to save everyone (1 Timothy 2:3-4) and was perfectly capable of doing so. Yeah, What a Guy.
ThePuppyTurtle 3 weeks ago
@YesYou123333 Please Address James 2 and tell me how an unsaved person can be made a partaker of the Holy Ghost as in Hebrews 6.
ThePuppyTurtle 3 weeks ago
@ThePuppyTurtle James 2 says nothing about a saved peron. A partaker only means a believer. The devil believes in the Holy Ghost too. Is he saved? God does nothing "randomly". He chooses those He knows will accept Him.
YesYou123333 3 weeks ago
@YesYou123333 Hebrews 6 mentions Partakers of the Holy Ghost. James 2 Teaches Salvation by Faith and Works. Partake entails more then belief, I believe in premarital sex. but I do not partake in it. Likewise, Some may believe in the Holy spirit without partaking of Him as I do.
ThePuppyTurtle 3 weeks ago
@ThePuppyTurtle You can argue all day what "partaking" means but it certainly DOES NOT mean saved. This is what YOU are claiming, so back it up.
YesYou123333 3 weeks ago
@YesYou123333 If You read the context, it is addressing saved people. It lists several characteristics of the Saved, And says that They can fall away. You also are yet to address James 2 and haven't acknowledged 1 Timothy 2: 3-4. And Once you say it CERTAINLY doesn't mean saved, YOU Accept the burden of Proof. So please say what else Partakers of the Holy Ghost Could POSSIBLY mean and demonstrate that's what it does mean.
ThePuppyTurtle 3 weeks ago
@ThePuppyTurtle None of the verses you have brought up mention ANYTHING about being saved. NONE.
YesYou123333 3 weeks ago
@YesYou123333 Look, you clearly aren't interested in the truth so, (Shakes dust off feet)
ThePuppyTurtle 3 weeks ago
I am NOT offended By The cross. But what I AM offended about is when People say this is what My Pastor Believes as opposed to this is What the bible says. I Reject KJV ONLY People and Churches. I reject Assembly of God,calvary Chapel,Mormons,Jehovahs WSitness,Catholic.Foursquare,Seventh day Adventist, And MANY Other Cults out there today. I ONLY attend a Non denominational Christian Church,and While I Disagree with Rick warren,His Style Of Music is The way ALL Churches should be.
lasvegastroll 3 months ago
@lasvegastroll I have attended Rick Warrens church many times as my mother is in the Choir. But you just people need to say this is "What the Bible says" and end with the "style" of music. That has nothing to do with the Bible.
jazzbummer 2 months ago
If people are offended by the cross -- that's their problem. If people are offended by the truth -- that's their problem. Passion for the truth is right.
TotalInabilityTruth 3 months ago
@Keruaran-- "not a single author who wrote any book..." God is the author. He is inerrant. That is the point you don't seem to get. Men wrote the Bible under direct revelation from God Himself. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. Or don't care to understand.
johe64 3 months ago
@johe64
That wasn't my comment. You're talking to the wrong person.
Keruaran 1 month ago
@Keruaran sorry... I am not sure where this came from. It is my user name, but I didn't post this. I need to look into this. I think I may have been hacked. My hotmail was recently. Sorry for any inconvenience.
johe64 1 month ago
There is a lot of misunderstanding in the comments and I do note that most of the misrepresentation concerns Reformed Theology or 'Calvinism' (a term I dislike since the doctrines of grace were held dear by all the reformers though Calivn was indeed one of them). It really does help if you take the time to understand what you criticise so that when you do criticise you're actually representing what others hold dear correctly.
Keruaran 4 months ago
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To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
motibi 5 months ago
"Thank you." "Alrighty?" "Thank you." "Alrighty?"
2row777 5 months ago
short answer, ignore them as they are obviously (preordained) to hold false beliefs about God and burn burn burn... this sort of 'hands off' theology really simplifies things... if God foresaw all those who would ultimately accept Him, rejecting all else, what power do any of you elect have over the non elect? none... also is your own faith a sign that you are elected? are you sure?
cwross1976 6 months ago
@cwross1976 So youre saying that every person who is saved has to understand every bit of the bible perfectly and if they misunderstand something or happen to be mistaken or they just arent intelligent enough to understand the Bible perfectly they're not saved...even though they believe in Jesus and believe he died for their sins and was raised on the third day ect,,,I think we need to stop pointing fingers at one another like this everyone is struggling to understand the truth and its a journey
candiceevans1 6 months ago
Even though I am in TOTAL disagreement with White on this issue I must say that I am soooo glad that he answered as he did. I agree with extended grace to one another on this issue.
faithandpractice 6 months ago
Calvinism is objectively false. You have to believe that the mythic Adam and Eve were the first humans, but anthropology demonstrates that the genus Homo (humans) is at least 2 million years old. Sapiens (us and supposedly Adam and Eve) are a mere 200,000 years old. There were lots of other human species before us. Demonstrated fact contradicts Calvinist nonsense. It is a late medieval superstition invented by a third-rate French lawyer who wanted to be a theocrat in Geneva. It's absurd.
jimtrueblue99 6 months ago
@jimtrueblue99 SO YOURE SAYING THE BIBLE LIED ON THE FIRST PAGE? The bible isnt the inerrant word of GOD? ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN?
candiceevans1 6 months ago
@candiceevans1 The texts collected in the Bible are not the inerrant words of anybody. They are human documents written by humans for human purposes and express ideas in human terms that are inherently error prone. The dogma of an inerrant, infallible document is a preposterous superstition invented not by the people who wrote the texts in the Bible but by people who lived centuries, even thousands of years, after them. Not a single author included in the Bible claims to be inerrant.
jimtrueblue99 6 months ago
@jimtrueblue99
"Calvinism is objectively false"
Hmm that comment isn't going to stand up to scriptural scrutiny.
"You have to believe that the mythic Adam and Eve..."
Ah, Biblical inerrancy is out the door from the outset. Your problem isn't Calvinism, its inerrancy. You have a problem believing the Bible itself, period.
Keruaran 4 months ago
@Keruaran Not a single author who wrote any book of the Bible ever claimed to be inerrant. Not one. So were do you get the idea that the Bible is inerrant? Certainly not from the Bible itself. Why do I need to believe a dogma that you merely made up?
jimtrueblue99 4 months ago
@jimtrueblue99
I'm not really interested in getting into an argument on inerrancy with somebody who doesn't believe in the inerrancy of sciripture and therefore probably isn't going to accept an argument for inerrancy from scripture anyway. (Selah...) The point is that its just silly to argue about Calvinism when you don't actually believe in the very scriptures that both Calvinists and Arminians will appeal to in support of their respective arguments.
Keruaran 4 months ago
@Keruaran In other words unless I accept both inerrancy and Calvinism, there's no point in discussing my disagreement with inerrancy and Calvinism. What an interesting approach: we can discuss your disagreements with me if and only you agree with me to begin with. I don't need the Bible to disprove Calvinism. I need only biology and anthropology both of which conclusively demonstrate that the dogma on which Calvinism stands--original sin--is preposterous.
jimtrueblue99 4 months ago
@jimtrueblue99
No, I'm saying I'm not interested in getting into a debate with someone I don't believe can be reasoned with from scripture. And I'm saying that unless that ground is covered first, a debate about Calvinism is meaningless.
Keruaran 4 months ago
@Keruaran I don't play the Calvinist proof-text word game with the Bible. Bible verses don't trump demonstrated scientific fact. Cavinism is a late medieval superstition created by a man who had absolutely zero knowledge about the way the world really works. Calvinism is false because the world-view on which it rests is demonstrably false. There is no debate between medieval ignorance and modern knowledge. Knowledge wins.
jimtrueblue99 4 months ago
you cannot take specific pieces of scripture and use them to support what you believe. All these comments seem to do that. When you lay the whole bible out on the table and study it as a whole, predestination is real and undeniable. I won't say I'm a Calvinist because i have never read a work of Calvin and because of 1 Corinthians 1:12-13. I have only read the bible and see true sovereignty of God
cwoodard664 6 months ago
@EverydayRevival... Let's just cut-to-the-chase--
The Gospel of Calvinism
Because of ADAMS sin; God creates ALL people DEAD in their mothers womb. God purposely manufactures defective material Preprogrammed to Sin & ONLY Sin, lacking ALL ability to repent or Beg for Mercy, w/the Majority PREDESTINED for DAMNATION God being angry w/them EVERYDAY Ps.7:11, yet COMMANDED by God to Repent, His GENERAL CALL though Jesus NEVER died for them on the cross to begin with & The minority CHOSEN for Glory.
apollos6640 7 months ago
@EverydayRevival "All men are condemned for their sin, except those that God has elected to save."
Liar! Be a consistent Calvinist "Al MEN are Condemned because of ADAMS Sin" not for their own sins.
In fact, you believe that God HATED the Majority of the World & predestined the Majority for HELL "BEFORE having done ANYTHING either GOOD or BAD in order that Gods purpose of Election might continue".
THIS is YOUR gospel "Oh how beautiful are the feet of those who preach the SOVEREIGNTY of God"
apollos6640 7 months ago
God is not a Calvinist thankfully!
Gate2enter4life47 7 months ago
I have a question for all Calvinists! If God willed men to go to hell by divine election, why did He say He is not willing that any should perish? Is God a liar? Another Question. If God only elected a special few, why did He tell the disciples whosoever believes and is baptized shall be saved, and whoever believes in Him shall not perish, God so loved the world that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish.Not only would you be spreading a lie you would by your notion be saying God lies.
Gate2enter4life47 7 months ago
@Gate2enter4life47 All men are condemned for their sin, except those that God has elected to save.
2 Peter 3:9 which you only quote half of is addressed to the "ELECT" God isn't willing that any of his elect should perish.
Whoever believes in Christ's life, death, and resurrection shall be saved. No one would believe without being born again of the Spirit.
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
EverydayRevival 7 months ago
@EverydayRevival Uhm no. This debauched bit of exegesis, claiming 2 Peter 3:9 is about 'the elect' is neo-calvinist newspeak. Even Calvin himself attested to the universal offer of salvation in this text. Let me guess: 1 John 2:2 also refers to the 'elect' only?
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
hey @BulldoggieHotDogs and @ElDemonioTribute ....great handling of the Word of God. Press on and keep it up!
npotts89 8 months ago
@npotts89 AMEN
EverydayRevival 7 months ago
@zeph317 continue... Jesus says the same thing in John 6:47 ("...he who believes has eternal life"). But he speaks of man's ability (or inability) shortly thereafter: "no one can (ability) come to me unless it has been granted him from the Father" (John 6:65). So in reality John 3:16 is not a passage contrary to Calvinism.
BulldoggiesHotDogs 8 months ago
@BulldoggiesHotDogs Yeah John 3:16 is in actuality a strong verse for proving Calvinism, because all the believing-ones will not perish but have eternal life. The point that a lot of people miss is that believing isn't a choice so much as it is a matter of the heart, and man's heart from birth is sinful and evil continuously. Only after God has removed our heart of stone and given us a heart of flesh are capable of believing.
The Gospel is the POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION... it's not a choice!
EverydayRevival 7 months ago
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TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones. That was offensing.
Aslak1Simonsen 7 months ago
@Aslak1Simonsen What is offensive is worshipping a deity that hates his own creation with such passion, that he arbitrarily creates human beings, who have the capacity to feel pain, for the sole purpose of damning them. That is offensive. Offensive to the character of God, and offensive to the mind as well as the heart.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones SO YOU HATE GOD? Youre angry because GOD didnt do things your way? Youre angry that Adams sin made us dead in our sins? you want a Gospel that saves all? You just proved the Calvinist position that men hate GOD and that men cannot come to GOD unless he draws them and that men are depraved and you find Yahweh offensive,,YOU LOVE GOD ON YOUR CONDITIONS
candiceevans1 6 months ago
@candiceevans1 "So you hate God?" No, ma'am, I utterly loathe what Calvinism makes of God.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 6 months ago
@candiceevans1 Wait... you believe Obama is the anti-christ... Well, that explains a lot. Seriously, that alone ensures me that your theology isn't worth a cent.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 6 months ago
@Aslak1Simonsen You are right. To use the holy words Glory Hallelujah in a context that anywhere near has to do with the calvinist vision of god, is offensive.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
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@TennesseeOwnsMyBones 15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." (Rom 9:15 ESV)
No one deserves mercy. Everyone deserves condemnation.
36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. (John 3:36 ESV)
Only vile sinners will be cast into Hell, people that hate God and Christ, and want nothing from Him.
EverydayRevival 7 months ago
@zeph317 continue... This is quite consistent with the Reformed position. There is not a problem. For the passage does not speak of ability. It simply affirms that every one of the category of believing ones have eternal life. It does not tell us who has or has not the ability to believe. We must look elsewhere for that information. Jesus says the same thing in John 6:47 ("...he who believes has eternal life"). But he speaks of man's ability (or inability) shortly thereafter: "no one ca
BulldoggiesHotDogs 8 months ago
@zeph317 continue (under new name) Let's look at the actual wording: pas ho pisteuwn is the actual Greek phrase. It quite literally means "every one believing" (pas- "all, every," ho- article, pisteuwn- present- active- participle meaning "believing"). The verse is speaking of eternal life for every one of a certain category of people. The category is those who believe. Every one believing. This is quite consistent with the Reformed position. There is not a problem. For the passage does
BulldoggiesHotDogs 8 months ago
@zeph317 continue... James White describes the use of whosoever in The Potter's Freedom: "Furthermore, the common misconception that John 3:16 uses an indefinite phrase, 'whosoever,' is presented as evidence against the particularity of God's work of redemption." People tend to think that whosoever means that anyone and everyone is able to choose righteousness and come to faith in Christ. It doesn't. Let's look at the actual wording: pas ho pisteuwn is the actual Greek phrase. It quite lite
ElDemonioTribute 8 months ago
@zeph317 continue... World does not have to mean every single individual. In fact the term has numerous meanings in the New Testament and especially in the Johaninne corpus. In this context it is best to use kosmos to mean people from every tribe, tongue, and nation. The next part of the passage to discuss is the translated term whosover made popular by the King James Bible. The pastor who provided me the list had this term highlighted. James White describes the use of whosoever in The Pott
ElDemonioTribute 8 months ago
@zeph317 continue... In my previous post I discussed the list given to me titled, "Passages Contrary to Calvinism." I also said that I would examine John 3:16 first. It is arguably the most well-known verse in the Bible, and it is one commonly used for the purpose of refuting Calvinism. I won't bother writing the verse out since we've all got it memorized.
The context of this passage is a soteriological discussion between Jesus and a pharisee named Nicodemus. We have to remember that Jesus
ElDemonioTribute 8 months ago
@zeph317 as to John 3:16 The context of this passage is a soteriological discussion between Jesus and a pharisee named Nicodemus. We have to remember that Jesus had just finished telling Nicodemus, "unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). This is one of the clearest passages teaching regeneration preceeding faith. Many passages used against Reformed theology end up proving universalism when pressed this way. This appears to be the case here. World does not h
ElDemonioTribute 8 months ago
Calvinists seem to be formed in one of three ways: 1) Calvinist preachers scare the living daylights out of them in a Puritan fashion, 2) They are raised in a Reformed church, or 3) they are converts who came to Christ with an Arminian understanding of free will. Nearly every Calvinist I know was either born Presbyterian/Reformed Baptist or claims to have been "enlightened" as an Arminian and repented of their past error. Is there anyone who is saved while thinking they are powerless to convert?
ElasticGiraffe 8 months ago
I'm neither an Arminian nor a Calvinist, and I'm convinced that the so-called "doctrines of grace" clearly have their origin in the sixteenth and not the first century. But although James White can be arrogant, I appreciate his willingness not to entertain people who believe non-Calvinists are damnable heretics. Reformed theology, however, IS a tradition of man, and it does very much concern me that he speaks of a conversion from Armininianism to Calvinism as if one is born again... again.
ElasticGiraffe 8 months ago
@ElasticGiraffe "I'm convinced that the so-called "doctrines of grace" clearly have their origin in the sixteenth and not the first century."
Uh...St. Augustine...
prettylola1 8 months ago
@prettylola1 Uh... do you believe Augustine affirmed all the essential ideas behind TULIP?
The answer is a resounding "No."
ElasticGiraffe 5 months ago
@ElasticGiraffe Wrong
prettylola1 5 months ago
@prettylola1 If you want to be a good Augustinian Protestant, you would probably be better off if you subscribed to Lutheranism. Augustine affirmed regeneration through BAPTISM; Luther agreed but Calvin denied it. He affirmed a real physical presence of Christ in the Eucharist; Luther agreed but Calvin denied it. He affirmed the absolute theological authority of Rome [Roma locuta est; causa finita est—Rome has spoken; the case is concluded (Sermon 131, 6:10)]; all reformers strongly denied it.
ElasticGiraffe 5 months ago
@ElasticGiraffe Who said I wanted to be an Augustinian Protestant? And those "other things" have nothing to do with TULIP. I know what Augustine taught about Infant Baptism and the Eucharist, and I do not agree with either one. You are building a strawman, and I do not correspond with people that have no interest in honest dialogue.
prettylola1 5 months ago
@prettylola1 Augustine invented and affirmed a doctrine of individualistic predestination unto salvation; Luther agreed but Calvin went further and developed it into the doctrine of DOUBLE-predestination. There is dispute over whether Augustine held to a doctrine of limited atonement. If so, he was without theological precedent. I think it likely that he changed his position on it, as he did during his anti-Pelagian period after he argued for the necessity of libertarian free will for morality.
ElasticGiraffe 5 months ago
@ElasticGiraffe "Augustine invented and affirmed a doctrine of individualistic predestination unto salvation; Luther agreed but Calvin went further and developed it into the doctrine of DOUBLE-predestination." You are very misinformed on this issue.
prettylola1 5 months ago
@ElasticGiraffe "All things whatever arise from, and depend on, the divine appointment; whereby it was foreordained who should receive the word of life, and who should disbelieve it; who should be delivered from their sins, and who should be hardened in them; and who should be justified and who should be condemned." - Martin Luther
Thus, Double-Election. You are wrong and deliberately misrepresent Calvinism...not very honest!
prettylola1 5 months ago
@prettylola1 Say that Luther affirmed double-predestination to a Lutheran, and see what kind of reaction you get. For the most part, Lutherans HATE Luther himself being claimed by Calvinists because they consider Calvin's theology "too Reformed." Two points should be noted, however: 1. Martin Luther's views on the hidden will are NOT entirely or finally summed up in his On the Bondage of the Will, and 2. Martin Luther was not the only theologian to develop the theology of Lutheranism.
ElasticGiraffe 5 months ago
@prettylola1 Consider this statement in Luther's Commentary on Genesis:
"For otherwise, if someone had been predestined, he would have been saved without the Son and without the sacraments or Holy Scripture. Consequently, God, according to the blasphemy of these people, was horribly foolish when He sent His Son, promulgated the Law and the Gospel, and sent the apostles if the only thing He wanted was that we should be uncertain and in doubt whether we are to be saved or really to be damned."
ElasticGiraffe 5 months ago
@prettylola1 "The predestination or eternal election of God, however, extends only over the godly, beloved children of God, being a cause of their salvation, which He also provides, as well as disposes what belongs thereto. Upon this [predestination of God] our salvation is founded so firmly that the gates of hell cannot overcome it." (Book of Concord, Article IX, Section 5)
ElasticGiraffe 5 months ago
@prettylola1 "Therefore we reject the following [error]. . .that God is unwilling that every one should be saved, but that some, without regard to their sins, from the mere counsel, purpose, and will of God, are ordained to condemnation so that they cannot be saved." (Book of Concord, Article IX, Sections 16, 19)
The Book of Concord was published in Dresden in 1580 and CONSCIOUSLY OPPOSED the peculiarly Calvinist doctrines of double-predestination and limited atonement.
ElasticGiraffe 5 months ago
@prettylola1 Before you accuse me of intellectual dishonesty or of misrepresenting Luther as more of a "Lutheran" than a Calvinist, you should consider ALL of Luther's writings on the subject as well as the earliest creeds of Lutheranism.
The sad fact is that Calvinism is its own soteriological island. No mainstream theological system in the history of Christianity EXCEPT Calvinism posits that God has secretly decreed, according to a hidden will, that this or that individual be eternally damned.
ElasticGiraffe 5 months ago
@ElasticGiraffe I guess you have read all of Luther's writings and all creeds of Lutheranism and all mainstream theological systems throughout the history of Christianity haven't you?
bull1504 5 months ago
@bull1504 I'm well acquainted with the historical development of theology. I don't need to read every creed in Christendom to say with confidence that there has never been any Christian tradition like Calvinism prior to the Reformation. The Catholic Jansenists were radical Augustinians who held some of the same beliefs about the nature of original sin and predestination, but that movement originated in the 17th century.
ElasticGiraffe 5 months ago
@bull1504 well...you replied to @prettylola that she/he should consider "ALL of Luther's writings on the subject..." etc etc...now you say that you don't have to read every creed in Christendom to say that there was no tradition like Calvinism prior to the Reformation. I think your rules are unfair. Besides that, the point is not whether Calvinism existed prior to the reformation or not...that's really not important. What's important is whether "calvinism" has biblical support or not.
bull1504 5 months ago
@prettylola1 "Wrong"
By the way, negative one-word replies are condescending, lazy, and childish.
ElasticGiraffe 5 months ago
@ElasticGiraffe No, it is a direct response to your misinformed propaganda. But if I hurt your feelings, I'm sorry!
prettylola1 5 months ago
Hell is full of Calvin's AND Arminius' disciples while heaven is full of disciples of Christ.
SlungDungVideos 9 months ago
Arminians are idealists,,,they cant cope with the reality of GOD,,,They want GOD to be like Santa Clause and if he actually condemns people to hell THEY CANT COPE WITH IT, they want to sugar coat everything I have heard them say I cant worship a GOD that condemns most people to hell,,,well then you cant worship the GOD of the Bible,,,they dont understand that we deserve hell already,,,we are wicked ,,,I like what JW said about us being like murderers in a burning building
candiceevans1 9 months ago
Thank for posting this video clip!!
Soli Deo Gloria
FinalHopee 11 months ago
Good video
mrjoshua1414 11 months ago
This is a great video. It took me awhile to accept the doctrines of grace as well. I have now come to realize that you cannot force these doctrines on anyone, but can only explain what you believe and God must do the rest.
adidsoccr2 1 year ago
@adidsoccr2 Yes! That's exactly what happened to me!
newbirth35 1 year ago
@adidsoccr2 Amen! I've also had the same experience! :)
xWhiteLightning 11 months ago
I was predestined to be arminian.
xJacobPortillox 1 year ago
@xJacobPortillox I was predestinated to be CONFORMED IN THE IMAGE OF CHRIST!
NB3K 1 year ago
@NB3K
Yep.
So you're a Calvinist.
xacaciastrainx 1 year ago
Please, you're a pastor in mordern day american where there are thousands upon thousands of pastors. Why don't you go to the nations and stop trying to win a theological debate you hypcrotical...
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
@TheOkstate2012 doctrine is important it does matter what is taught there is such a thing as true and false teachings
zeb1912 1 year ago
@zeb1912
yeah I know, but most of these videos are theological debate within the secondary views,
which can become a waste of time
TheOkstate2012 1 year ago
Yes yes yes! It took me 14 years before I was ready to accept these doctrines. And that was a work God did in my heart. In fact, I put off reading about it until I sensed I was ready. I knew God was preparing me to learn these things, and I couldn't accept it until I was prepared.
newbirth35 1 year ago
"The greatest enemy to human souls is the self-righteous spirit which makes men look to themselves for salvation." - Spurgeon
ashirly 1 year ago
"He who does not hate the false does not love the true; and he to whom it is all the same whether it be God’s word or man’s, is himself unrenewed at heart." - Spurgeon
ashirly 1 year ago
"Men do not naturally love the Doctrines of Grace and, therefore, they cast them out of their minds as much as possible. The larger portion of mankind do not believe that salvation is of Grace - another part of them profess to believe it but do not understand its meaning—and many who do understand it have never yielded to it or embraced it......!" - Spurgeon
ashirly 1 year ago
"We have nowadays around us a class of men who preach Christ, and even preach the gospel; but then they preach a great deal else which is not true, and thus they destroy the good of all that they deliver, and lure men to error. They would be styled "evangelical" and yet be of the school which is really anti-evangelical." - Spurgeon
ashirly 1 year ago
"I believe the man who is not willing to submit to the electing love and sovereign grace... of God, has great reason to question whether he is a Christian at all, for the spirit that kicks against that is the spirit of the devil, and the spirit of the unhumbled, unrenewed heart." ~Spurgeon
ashirly 1 year ago
There seems not to be crystal CLEAR Scripture either direction but what I will say is that there was not one Apostle who would have been an example of a 'synergist' aside from maybe Judas who was not saved and even he might have known better.
ashirly 1 year ago
I have had many try to pathetically twist Scripture to convey differently as they had believed they were saved 20+ years before becoming 'monergistic' but alas, I have not as yet had anyone bring Scripture forth that is even close to proving their perspective.
ashirly 1 year ago
These are not complex or confusing doctrines for the saint. They are basic and esssential and for anyone to think that they can learn them LATER is what I have to conclude a tragic deception. Spurgeon seemed to think the same on the matter."
ashirly 1 year ago
It does not matter to me that in this day and age most claim salvation without grasping the basic doctrines of GRACE....as I see nothing in the Scipture that clearly proves or disproves that is possible. I will say this: I am quite sure that it is not possible to know Christ and trust in Christ at all if one is NOT embracing the basic sovereignty of God and denying their own strength in saving themselves.
ashirly 1 year ago
Another thing is that White asks the question to this guy "you gotta rememer, two years before you saw these things (full grace) were you unsaved????" Well I would say to James White "That is correct, I was not saved!! I would query that people who believe they were saved BEFORE recognizing the omnipotence of God were sorely deceiving themselves and everyone around them as well.
ashirly 1 year ago
We are to judge ALL things RIGHTEOUSLY and to keep in mind that when we make mistakes in our judgements that falls directly on our own shoulders and we will be held accounted for it in eternity. So we must take it very seriously and as much as when a preacher gets up to preach. WE better be certain we are being led by the Spirit in our assessments.
ashirly 1 year ago
I absolutely think we should be careful in our assessment of another to make certain we are forming our opinion on the facts of what they believe and not unsubstaniated ideas....but I do believe we are 'trying the spirits' when we try them and do not take their claim of knowing Christ at sheer face value.
ashirly 1 year ago
400 years ago here in the Netherlands the followers of Gomerus and Arminius delt with each other by way of prosecution, exile, torture and killing like all good christians did in those days.
Perhaps the old ways are still usable in the USA ?
Oranjeklant 1 year ago
White also calls 'synergism' as SUBbiblical thing which I find funny considering it is a FALSEbiblical thing. Synergism is a bad fruit and we are to discern others by their fruit. I think it is a sign of the times that most are taking Whites direction on this matter.
ashirly 1 year ago
Funny he admits that the recognition of 'sovereign grace' is a world changing thing that changes everything in ones life...and it is something God does when He changes someon's heart...YET he thinks that can come after regneration and is not necessarilly part of being sealed in the Spirit. He is contradicting himself here. White says it is a danger to seriously query someone's regeneration when they are hold to a human centred view of salvation YET Spurgeon did.
ashirly 1 year ago
They who claim as White is claiming, are in the majority by far (which proves nothing to me). They only ones who seem to think otherwise, are the few I have met that never were 'synergistic saints' at any point. So there are these two very distinct camps for sure and though we do not seem to have the most obvious Scripture on the matter either way, we know that both views cannot be correct.
ashirly 1 year ago
I would say to any newer Monergist to step back and take the Word overall and as a whole and tell me with an honest face that the Bible seems to teach that a new saint does not understand the basics of God's powerful grace and the basics of human depravity and inability!!!
ashirly 1 year ago
It is a funny thing because EVERY single saint I have come across who claims a person can be saved years before embracing the 'omnipotent grace of God'...are the very ones who think it happened to them as well. They CLING to an early experience of some kind that is authentic to them but may or may not be in reality. Like answered prayer before salvation.
ashirly 1 year ago
Nay, they are like oil and water and do not mix. This is what I would say to James White and most who claim this. The basic doctrine of GRACE is an easy one that every saint should be able to grasp at the time of regeneration because I know not a saint in all Scripture who displayed otherwise. Not like these days.
ashirly 1 year ago
I do not think it is reasonable to say we know God without knowing basically the attributes of God. And how can one lean on Christ when they are still leaning on themselves for salvation? Nay, they are like oil and water and do not mix.
ashirly 1 year ago
The basic doctrine of GRACE is an easy one that every saint should be able to grasp at the time of regeneration because I know not a saint in all Scripture who displayed otherwise. Not like these days. I am convicted that it is a modern heresy to teach otherwise as it allows the unregenerate to go on thinking they are regenerated and live in tremendous deception. That is what I call dangerous.
ashirly 1 year ago
@ApologistDougWebb GOD bless you♥
mammal46 1 year ago
@ApologistDougWebb Their is a man on YouTube by the name of theabolonekid who preaches the Love of Jesus and wins many souls to the LORD. He does it with LOVE. Try reading John 5:39-42 the next time you feel like arguing over calvinistic traditions. We are saved by GRACE! It has NOTHING to do with anything we can do, all our righteousness are filthy rags compared to JESUS. And JESUS said that you would know His by their LOVE FOR ONE ANOTHER, not their arguing over John Calvin and arminians.
mammal46 1 year ago
@mammal46 Part 2 I am not an appologist, but I do have ultimate respect and hold them in high esteem when they are taking on people like Richard Hawkins Darwins greatest admirerer. However, when a bunch of Christian Apologist get together and fight amongst themselves it is rediculous because it makes ppl like Hawkins think "look at the fools fighting amongst themselves, what a bunch of crackpots!" Esecially in arenas like YouTube! If you must quarel do it behind closed doors.
mammal46 1 year ago
Part 3 And seriously, does either side think that you're even making the slightest difference in each other's thoughts? You'll sit there arguing with each other until JESUS COMES BACK and finds you arguing. And finds theabolonekid winning souls, JESUS is going to look at you like he did the scribes in Mark 9:16 "What is all this arguing about?"NLV
Now I know you're an appologist, and I'm just a layman so I'm sure you'll have some really kool sounding rebuttal, but I won't argue with you
mammal46 1 year ago
Christians should learn to get along. They represent the Living GOD of the Universe. All their bickering over their trivial views make non Believers think that Christianity is a fairy tale. Really their is only one GOD, one Holy Bible, one Holy Righteous JESUS who saves us, and one salvation by HIM. All else is trivial and real Believers better start looking for common ground. It's too late in the game to be bickering like cackling hens.
mammal46 1 year ago
@uniqimage
John Calvin himself was a "4 pointer", he did not adhere to the idea of Christ's aonement being limited to the "elect". So, was Calvin a "Calvinist"?
rntlee 1 year ago
@rntlee Read John Calvin. He wrote a lot on Limited Atonement. Calvin obviously believed in all 5 points as well as Double Predestination.
TRH1292 1 year ago
@TRH1292
Calvin believed the extent of Christ's atonement was unlimited:
"The word many does not mean a part of the world only, but the whole human race: he contrastsmany with one, as if to say the he would not be the Redeemer of one man, but would meet death to deliver many of their cursed guilt. IT IS INCONTESTABLE THAT CHRIST CAME FOR THE EXPIATION OF THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD."
John Calvin
Eternal Predestination of God, IX.5
magicdude44 1 year ago
@bullawaya Proverbs 16: 9 The heart of man plans his way,
but the Lord directs his steps.
Now exactly what man is left out and which steps does God not direct? God has decreed all things,you want all to mean all ,all the time,but when all the Father gives to Jesus comes to Him and are saved and all things decreed by Him can't mean all things,right?Why don't you trust God in His decisions of what He decrees and who He has decided to save? Do you not trust God to do what's right?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@bullawaya Isaiah 63:17 O LORD, why do you make us wander from your ways and harden our heart, so that we fear you not? Return for the sake of your servants, the tribes of your heritage.
Who caused the Hebrews to wander from God's ways and who hardened their hearts?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@bullawaya you should check out the verse that comes right after that one..
inhalejesus 1 year ago
I always enjoy listening to Mr James White.. I have learned allot. Thank you for your ministry
rbmath 1 year ago
Explain the account of the sheep and goats! Explain the prodical son! Your view is so messed up and twisted that it makes no sense! YOU have but a few verses that you hang your hat on! Such a take can only be proven by twisting the rest of Scripture in order for your stance to make sense! You are heading towards heretical waters, friend! Did God create evil? Is He to blame for evil? Is he responsible for all of satan's evil doing? Did He only die for some? Thin ice, dude!
zeph317 1 year ago
God at the mercy of Man - you say is a dangerous thing. I totally agree - read the account of the Fall - that was Adam choosing against God - very basic understanding of why the world is evil and why bad things happen to good people - not because God DOES it as you claim but rather because He ALLOWS it. Also, then read about the Flood - God chose for the world to be evil and then He destroyed the world - why not make them change - why not provide His "Irrisistible Grace" then?
zeph317 1 year ago
@zeph317 Can God stop men from sinning?Yes he can,yet sin still exists,therefore sin has a place in God's plan.God commands men not to murder,yet He decreed sinful men would kill Jesus.God raised Pharaoh just to destroy him,that was his lot in life.God told Moses to go and tell Pharaoh to let HIS people go,yet God told Moses that HE was going to harden Pharaoh's heart even before Moses spoke to Pharaoh so he WOULDN'T LET THEM GO!
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@zeph317 Isiaha 17 Why, O LORD, do you make us wander from your ways and harden our hearts so we do not revere you?He makes us wander from His ways and hardens us.Looks like you don't really know who God really is?
CBALLEN 1 year ago
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@CBALLEN I agree - I don't know who YOUR god is - directly. Your god is a false one, one who did not send his son so that ALL who believe can be saved. You have not answered that Scripture - what does your god say about John 3:16? I have a degree in Theology, what credentials do you have? My God "hardened" pharoahs heart by providing opportunites for him to change -as He does all people - the more you choose to go against God, the more your heart is hardened - to stone.
zeph317 1 year ago
@zeph317 Here is the real problem ,no one is righteous ,we are all wicked and evil not wanting anything to do with God,we all want to go to Hell and if all men had FREE WILL,THEY WOULD ALL GO TO HELL,but God wanted to change some of the peoples' natures so He could have them with Him,He chose THESE before time for Himself,just like He chose Israel for Himself in the OT.So actually,most people have free will in the sense you believe,they just can't be saved by it.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@zeph317 You say that bad things happen to good people,but Jesus said none are good.We don't think our sin is that bad,but Adam just ate one piece of fruit and that caused the death of every living thing to this very day,also that was the day that entropy kicked in and is the reason that NO MAN CAN CHOOSE GOD BY HIS OWN POWER.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@zeph317 I guess I overestimated your ability to understand what is meant by "why do bad things happen to good people?" Jesus wasn't REALLY saying no one is good - including Himself! Are you saying that Jesus was not good? The man did not know who Jesus was! HE is good BUT also so much more - He is God incarnate! Sin has a "place in God's plan"? Where does it say THAT? It seems odd that one who believes that he is evil, not good, selected but not perfected, & bereft of choice is arguing!
zeph317 1 year ago
So Lane your attitude is so NOT Christian, humbly rebuke a brother not SLAM him with cutting sarcasm. How do Calvinists read John 3:16? For God so loved the chosen part of the world that He sent his only begotten son that whosoever he chooses will not perish but have eternal life? That is adding to Scripture and, to me, is where this whole polarization is going. Satan is causing this division and giggling in mockery at God, while God knows that this will sort out the sheep and the Calvinists
zeph317 1 year ago
Reformed theology is where you will find the truth of scripture and the Sovereignty of God realized. I recommend The Sovereignty of God by A.W. Pink . This book is rich in it's exposition of the scripture and handling of the Sovereignty of God. I strongly commend it to you who are embracing the doctrines of grace and searching the scripture for Gods truth. Be blessed in your study.
All praise and honor belong to you oh God! Thank you for salvation!
Warhorse22 1 year ago
me there. That is why I am convinced that if anyone has God's Spirit dwelling within them and is offered truth, they must conform their lives to it! I am thankful that my husband was patient with me and God taught both of us that we cannot do the work of the Spirit...we can only be obedient in sharing truth and leaving the work of God up to God :) I appreciate what you do....or what God does through you I should say..haha!
Because of Christ,
Josh's wife
deanjos1 1 year ago
Hi Lane,
Thanks for posting this!! I was converted (from spiritual death to life) about five years ago after living my life brought up in the church and not necessarily under good teaching. When God did give me a heart for Him, I came to the table with a lot of preconceived notions about who or what I thought God was like. When offered the doctrines of grace, I was offended and did not approve of the "god" that was presented so I hardened my heart against it. Thankfully, God didn't leave
deanjos1 1 year ago
Don't worry Lane. CherubimX was ultimately predestined to jeer you.
52blades 1 year ago
i think i believe in some of Calvinism? But i see in the NT where some "refused to believe", in other words they rejected God,s grace to be saved.
buzzobug 1 year ago
@buzzobug
good point. I believe this is against the point of "Irresistible Grace". The Bible is clear and it clearly states that we reject God's grace, but that is not what this doctrine teaches, but rather, it teaches that because God is all-powerful He can overcome our resistance. John Piper has a series on TULIP, if you'd like to hear it. it's really good! ^_^ hope you have a great day!
npotts89 1 year ago
@buzzobugJesus said in John 6 35-37 all who come to Him will not hunger or thirst. Some refused why? verse 37 answers the reason they refused. All that the Father gives to Him will come to Him. Irresistible grace isn't what the word suggests. We mean by irresistible grace that the grace that God gives accomplishes what He intends for it to accomplish. The term is better stated as effectual Grace. Salvation is of the Lord . Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith.
Warhorse22 1 year ago
Never thoiught Calvinism would be so radical to me, but it was. From the time (In an IFB college) this changed my whole view as basically I see people say they are saved by grace and act like they are saved by works. Same thing in a church I went back too-I cannot express in 500 characters what God has done in me and took many years to connect the dots. I try to encourage and challange to study the bible
daveme7 1 year ago
I always look at it in this way-the Spirit works in Armenian circles as much as in Calvinistic churches. Yet, most often when sharing and I am known as a "Calvinist"-so many false accusations come my way. Sometimes I am able to talk to some and share and learn from others not Calvinistic Christians. Sometimes it is a matter of clearing up errors many make-other times just educating(especially from KJV types when sharing King James had much more to do with the Synod of Dort as oppose to Calvin)
daveme7 1 year ago
I totally agree with James White. I was an Arminian for the first two years of my life, but I was still saved. I became reformed in theology for the past two years and my understanding of the bible has grew since then.
CASSMAN777 1 year ago
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P (perseverance of the saints [or, eternal security])--Jn. 10:28: "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." Heb. 13:5: "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." I Pet. 1:5: "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." II Pet. 1:9: "But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins."
briancook007 1 year ago
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I (irresistible [or, efficacious] grace)--Eze. 36:26-27: "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." Acts 16:14: "Lydia,...which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul."
briancook007 1 year ago
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L (limited [or, definite] atonement)--Jn. 10:11, 15: "The good shepherd giveth his life for the SHEEP.....I lay down my life for the SHEEP." Rom. 8:32-33: "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for US ALL, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of GOD'S ELECT? It is God that justifieth." Eph. 5:25: "Husbands, love your wives, EVEN AS Christ also loved the CHURCH, and gave himself for IT."
briancook007 1 year ago
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U (unconditional election)--Acts 13:48: "And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." Rom. 9:16-18: "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth."
briancook007 1 year ago
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T (total depravity)--Isa. 1:5-6: "The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment." Jer. 17:9: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
briancook007 1 year ago
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"The fact that God asked man to reason with him shows that he is not going to arbitrarily deliver man and give to him blessings without man's consent. If the destiny of man is fixed, without regard to whether he accepts or rejects the provision made for him, then there would be no occasion for him to reason with the Lord. This for ever puts to silence the theory of predestination of every creature."--J.F. Rutherford, higher-up of the "Jehovah's Witnesses" cult, "Deliverance", p. 102
briancook007 1 year ago
"I believe the man who is not willing to submit to the electing love and sovereign grace of God, has great reason to question whether he is a Christian at all, for the spirit that kicks against that is the spirit of the devil, and the spirit of the unhumbled, unrenewed heart."--Charles Spurgeon, "The Blood of the Everlasting Covenant"
briancook007 1 year ago
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"Answer me, ye that deny God's sovereignty, and hate his election—how is it that angels are condemned to everlasting fire, while to you, the children of Adam, the gospel of Christ is freely preached? The only answer that can possibly be given is this: God wills to do it. He has a right to do as he pleases with his own mercy. Angels deserve no mercy: we deserve none."--Charles Spurgeon, "Election and Holiness"
briancook007 1 year ago
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"Our Arminian antagonists always leave the fallen angels out of the question: for it is not convenient to them to recollect this ancient instance of Election. They call it unjust, that God should choose one man and not another. By what reasoning can this be unjust when they will admit that it was righteous enough in God to choose one race—the race of men, and leave another race—the race of angels, to be sunk into misery on account of sin."--Charles Spurgeon, "Election and Holiness"
briancook007 1 year ago
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Mark 9:45 "And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:" Whosover that believes that only some are predestined, please, address if Mark 9:45 is directed towards the predestined of your view or the people that are not predestined in your view, or both.
ThePottersvessel 2 years ago
Hey Lane,
Just out of curiosity, did James ever do any sort of video on ex-Calvinists, who are still very much regenerated believers?
I think that would make for an interesting discussion.
JesusMostHigh 2 years ago
As if CALVINism were not a doctrine of men (or a man)
theruteger 2 years ago
Why is this such a common view? It's just named after its major proponent. With this logic I could denounce Arminianism, Augustinianism, and even Pauline Christianity as "doctrine of men".
Hypsistus 1 year ago
@Hypsistus That was @ theruteger.
Hypsistus 1 year ago
@Hypsistus
Yes the difference is Calvinism was not thought before Calvin. I do not know enough about Arminianism to say that same, but its probably true also. Augustine was just expounded the most and best until that point justification, free will, the things he said were already being taught.
theruteger 1 year ago
Does Mr White believe that John Wesley was a man-centred evangelist trapped in the cage of his traditions?
Brightstar27 2 years ago