Father Barron on "Gran Torino" (SPOILERS)

[laxtm1]

And Tao's (if that is how the boy's name is spelled) word meaning is "the path." How apt.

[williemetoyer1]

The character in the movie goes to confession also I think

[Rockstar6111]

I have heard you talk about how violence does not solve anything but only brings more violence in other videos. I am curious on your opinion about the use of nuclear weapons to help stop WW2. Those violent weapons helped cause the surrender of japan but how do you rationalize that in your violence only brings more violence formula or would that apply to it?

[dpiscoya]

He also died with "Hail Mary" on his lips...

[dpiscoya]

That theory is just like Narnia!

[MontChevalier]

Damn, the Gran Torino sounds awesome. I have got to watch it now. Thanks Father!

[VictorLepanto]

The Jack Nicholson character as a Christ figure? I can't see it.

[wordonfirevideo]

@VictorLepanto Watch the movie again. He's a force of liberation and counter-culture who annoys the authority sturcture and teaches prisoners how to be free. He leads twelve of his "disciples" on a boat ride; he dies and, through the chief, "rises again."

[VictorLepanto]

@wordonfirevideo: How does he rise again? He is lobotamized & is then 'euthanized" by one his disciples. So the Indian is Judas? Haven't the Indians suffered enough? I am just teasing you.

[robair9911]

@wordonfirevideo Did Jesus take prostitutes on boat rides to have sex with them. No? Ok then, they are not the same. But Jesus was fond of prostitutes wasnt he?

[southyr6]

Did i say a man named "jesus" never existed? I don't remember saying that. I really wish you folks would think before you type.

[ohsnap31]

Allowing yourself to be crucified or shot to death is not non-violent. What this movie should have taught you is that your God is deficient and not real. An omnipotent God would not have his Son trap people into killing himself to wash away our sins. He would have a more perfect solution. Nice Try! Your bible is mad made garbage like you see in the movies.

[masteroftheforce1]

@ohsnap31 who ever said that the story of our redemption was to be nonviolent? that cross should have been ours. we deserve the violent death. yet jesus took it upon himself. it is true love at its finest. there is no better solution that i could think of to our redemption. christ somehow used justice and showed mercy at the same time. it is amazing. no other God of any religion loves his people enough to die the violent death for his loved ones.

[southyr6]

Comparing one fictional story, to another fictional story. How......pointless.

[wordonfirevideo]

@southyr6 If you think Jesus was a fictional character, you are running counter to the overwhelming consensus of scholars, both believing and non-believing.

[josephdtibbs]

@wordonfirevideo if you believe evolution you are running counter to the overwhelming consensus of scholars, both believing and non-believing... Francis Collins, for the believing side and countless on the non believing side. Think for a moment before posting things like this. This kind of consistent inconsistency is what causes basic deism to thrive into thriving atheism. I believe in a higher power in the idea that its hard not to. But misrepresentation isn't the way...

[wordonfirevideo]

@josephdtibbs Gotta tell you, friend, I have no idea what you're talking about here. The video was on a movie!

[josephdtibbs]

@wordonfirevideo I was quoting you word for word except using evolution instead of jesus because your implying that jesus is a scientific fact, which is true, however equaling so is evolution. Lack of intelligent design is more present today then at any other time in history. Because of these facts I find it hard to believe that a priest would be using science as a point of discussion...

[IoannesBellator]

@southyr6

Calling Jesus fictional completely disregards any historical and archaeological evidence states about facts- There was a Proconsul named Pontius Pilate, and there are historical records regarding a Nazarean who was sentenced to death, and of course, there is a sizable community that revolved around this crucified Jew. I'm sure people weren't supremely gullible then, or else nothing in the world would have changed a lot.

[SilenceSlayer224]

I didn't think Catholics were allowed to watch movies.

[VincentBlouin]

all was well until 6:23

[AGentertainment]

Great analysis.  You forgot to mention Robocop as a Christ figure as well, dying and then being resurrected again, although Robocop sticks with violence to overcome evil. The story is more about a man who become a robot that remembers and proves that he's still a man.

[woweixiaomiandui]

i also thought that it was a great concretisation of victor quia victima and greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

And how he had more in common with the Hmongs and is more or less rejected by his own family.

-Oh, i am at peace.

-I've got light

-Everybody blaims the Lutherans

So all in all, a great movie :D

[Jim1905]

I thought the Christus Victor theory was only accepted by Orthodox Catholics? And that Roman Catholics accept the Satisfaction view held by St. Anselm and St. Aquinas? I prefer the Christus Victor theory myself as that seems to be what the early church fathers (St. Irenaeus and Origen) had in mind, but I was just curious.

[wordonfirevideo]

@Jim1905 Catholics are obliged to believe that the death of Jesus had a salvific power, but we are not obliged to believe any particular theory which explains precisely how this worked. So we can certainly accept versions of the Christus Victor theory. In fact, references to it can be found throughout the liturgy.

[MaidenUtah1]

I liked Gran Torino, but I was not as inspired as everybody else was at the end. The reason is that once those gang members were arrested, THAT'S when it really began: in the legal system.

I could see them all getting off: it was dark, some of those witnesses we can presume were drinking and/or have a past, threats from affiliate gangs against testifying, blah, blah, blah...

In the end, Clint shoulda offed 'em the old fashioned way: with hot lead and cool one-liners!

[evandergeld]

@MaidenUtah1 I bet they wouldn't get off. He never left the sidewalk -- a public easement. They used guns, at least one of which (the SMG) is banned. And who knows what the cops found in the residence. (Drugs, etc.) Plus think of what the prosecutor has to work with: victim is an elderly, law-abiding (mostly) decorated vet, while the perps are gang-bangers. While normally the witnesses might be cowed by threats for normal, inter-ethnic crimes, the media spotlight here would loosen tongues.

[poetnine]

Excellent analysis and a key advocate of a peaceful paradigm shift made possible by an act of love. Clint did some good in this hurting world with this movie for sure.

[DeeNeeBug]

This discussion is pretty amazing. I've never heard of the Christus Victor Theory. The devil is tricked. The divinity of Christ swallows up evil. Wow. Kind'a gives one a lot to think about.

[302MarkVII]

The turtle in KungFu Panda is also Christ-like.

[redbaron998]

I liked the interplay between the young Priest and the main Character and that he was praying his penance when he was shot (though I personally would have made sure my penance was done before I was killed)

[wildhias]

man how could i have overseen - the Cross posture of Eastwoods dead body - of course. But probably unlike Jesus - Kowalski also died for his own sins - he sees in Tao the young Korean boy who had killed in the war - he was a very brutal man and enyoed killing back than - which haunts him now

But what is of course fitting with the Jesus connection is that both don't adhere to the religius establishment -lol

[xukeith33]

what order do you belong to? I liked the beginning and middle of this movie but Walt selfishly "committed suicide" to be a hero and preserve the "good people".

He Knew he would die and he basically said, "life sucks, religion is not for me" I will die and my new friends will be happy. IT is selfishness.

[Matthew06660]

it wasn't a shotgun... priest

[wordonfirevideo]

@Matthew06660 Sorry...lay person!

[scienceatheism]

i would like to know father if you have read a book called I, Lucifer by Glen Duncan? and if you have id like to know your thoughts on it.

[redbaron998]

@wordonfirevideo

Ha Ha, nice

[aaf9999]

@wordonfirevideo

HIS NAME IS  Matthew

[misterzonker2584]

@Matthew06660 What the hell was the point of calling him out as a priest?

[bat5jamma]

great movie, by a great director. and really good explanation. I enjoyed this alot.

[KnightOwl2006]

The self sacrifice at the end of Gran Torino immediately brought to mind the Crucifixion.

I also remember a college professor pointing out how ET was basically a retelling of the Christ story.

I

[RobotMonster464]

Father Barron, could you do a review of one of the great pieces of cinematic excellence called "Maniac" (1980). Its available on YT for your viewing pleasure.

[GhostSnake]

Theres a similar movie, The Professional.

[mancrushonhanksnow]

Haha I wonder if the developers of the film had that stuff in mind. Very awesome analysis, though.

[scorpionkings]

Do you find Religious mythology in everything you see?

[wordonfirevideo]

@scorpionkings Well, first of all, it's not mythology. And second, no I don't see Christian themes in everything, just in some things.

[scorpionkings]

Of course it is!

My advise is grow up, get a real life and stop believing in fairy tails, you look and sound silly speaking about that bronze age nonsense.

Now be brave and see reality!

[wordonfirevideo]

@scorpionkings And I would recommend that you read a more serious commentator on religion than a third-rate journalist like Christopher Hitchens. And by the way, Aeschylus, Sophocles, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Confucius, Homer, and the Buddha were all from "the Bronze Age." Do we just reject texts out of hand just because they're old?

[rainzoro]

@wordonfirevideo many of those philosophies are now useless. thats something u cant argue. you see, i agree that in ancient times, people needed to be controlled and so some used religion to do that. the thing is we dont need that now. humanity is in place. people are smart and logical with many studies, not just science. religion is old my friend, which explains the diminishing power of the vatican.

[rainzoro]

@wordonfirevideo let me ask you another question about the vatican. does that building really look like what jesus planned to build. come on.. you see? like i commented on the other clip, the problem with this so called "faith" lies in the absuement by the high priests.

[misterzonker2584]

@wordonfirevideo Two comments: I wouldn't consider Christopher Hitchens a third-rate journalist. You don't like God is Not Great, I get that, but he is a very perceptive guy and a good writer. Second, it's not wise to reject texts simply because they are old, I agree, but I wonder how you square the religious texts such as the Vedas and Buddhist writings with the Bible when they clearly don't support each other. This is an old question, sure, but I'm curious to know your response as a priest.

[wordonfirevideo]

@misterzonker2584 Well, we take them on a claim by claim basis. There are many truths contained in the Vedas and the Upanishads and in the writings of the Buddhist scholars.  But they don't bear the saving truth of Jesus Christ.

[Naturalhit]

@misterzonker2584 I wouldn't consider Hitchens to be a good writer. If you look at his books you'll see there are no cliff notes, footnotes, and references.

[misterzonker2584]

@Naturalhit I disagree that he isn't a good writer, though he is very sharp-tongued; he can definitely turn a few phrases. He does keep the endnotes anbd references to a minimum, which is problematic, and he gets carried away with some of his claims, true, but he's also writing for a popular audience, so his books can't be expected to be too technical. He could do a better job with his citations, but I wouldn't discard his writings wholesale, either.

[Naturalhit]

@misterzonker2584 I agree with you. He does have a sharp tongue. I watched him in a debate a couple of years ago and in the middle of that debate he lost it and he got very loud to a point where he's not giving the other person a chance to speak anymore and the moderation couldn't shut him down.

[MRSAnary]

@scorpionkings And my ADVICE is to learn basic English. You may believe these are fairy tales, and you're entitled to your opinion, but your arguing skills are seriously lacking.

[scorpionkings]

@MRSAnary Are they?

[MRSAnary]

@scorpionkings No, actually. You presented no arguments. Just idiotic opinions with no backing. Sorry for my mistake.

[OccamKant]

If the devil has us all under control, why are some of you people Christian?

Doesn't sound like the devil has much control.

[lordwalks]

Listen closer. The theory is the devil had/ not has Jesus after all died 2000 years ago. The answer to your question is free will and with free will at times mankind chooses to things that hurt our relationship with God. aka sin.

[wjb67ii]

All of us are sinners...we do the wrong things in this world...i.e. the Devil has control. *Some* of us are Christians...i.e. we realize there is a "Devil" and that we are sinners. Even christians sin...i.e. none of us are sinless. Ergo the Devil has "control" of this world.

[jamiebrs]

Satan has control in the absence of Christ, that is the point.

[Rondaria]

I loved this movie but ended up wondering how soon the punks would get out of jail, if they would even be convicted.

[mrROfLlol]

We get mad at them and want them to suffer, but it is all about forgiveness right?

[Rondaria]

Forgiveness has nothing to do with legal justice for murder. They can be forgiven, and at the same time receive just punishment for crime.

[jmctigret]

Dear Christian3269 I welcome you back to the Catholic Church. As a convert to the Catholic from reading the Early Church Fathers, Bible, Church Councils, and Catholic teachers like Peter Kreeft, Newman, St Augustine and many more.

[mshirley99]

I'll let Fr. Barron respond to this one.

[Christian3269]

shirley, I already had a little go around with him!

Only the Holy Spirit can convict him otherwise....sadly, there will be no conviction if he satys a Roman priest..

anyways, good day

[wordonfirevideo]

Well, friend, it might help if you offered anything even vaguely resembling a convincing argument! Until then, I think I'll stay in the priesthood to which Christ called me.

[Christian3269]

I have read Dr. Hahn's testimony and I found no Scriptural truthness in it at all. He basically just says, "I was a Protestant and now I am Catholic". He does not even mention repentance, faith or grace. If he truly got 'saved' while converting to catholicism then his testimony would be similar to this Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Dr. Hahn is nothing more than a lost soul who does not know his Savior or God

[wordonfirevideo]

Then you have not read him seriously at all. Scott Hahn is one of the most thoroughly biblical teachers I know. He talks continually of repentance, faith, grace, and much, much more. After you read Dr. Hahn, you might take a look at the decretals of the Council of Trent, wherein the Catholic teaching on the gracefulness of salvation is clearly laid out. Friend, you have got to get past the silly anti-Catholicism that someone taught you!

[SingLifesSong]

Father, I'm surprised to hear you endorsing Scott Hahn! We had to endure his textbooks in our theology class. He is so... dialectical, so black-and-white--a sort of "fulfilled" Protestant with a knack for overly literalistic biblical interpretation and dubious historical conclusions. And while I respect him personally, his sort of "golly-gee" neo-triumphalist approach, and right-leaning theological tendencies, leave him in the dust compared to a host of more, well, "objective" Catholic writers.

[Christian3269]

I would deeply question if it was truly Christ who called you into the Roman priesthood or the prince of the power of the air.

[wordonfirevideo]

Remove the plank in your own eye!

[lordwalks]

Fr. on a personal note I am curious your reaction to the interactions between Walt and the Catholic priest in the script in Gran Torino. I've got to imagine that you of all could appreciate reaching out to folks that did not "want your help" despite in many cases needing it. Would love to hear your thoughts as a priest and the dynamics of walt/priest relationship. Gotta think it would be similar to reading the Father Brown stories.

[mshirley99]

Thanks for the reply. Are you saying, then, that Catholics aren't Christian?

[Christian3269]

Catholics are led astray people lost in a man-made religion where the living God does not dwell.

Yes, Catholics are not Christians because they are under the spiritual oppressed control of the Vatican. It's very sad actually, knowing how much God loves them but they believe more in Roman Doctrine than Biblical.

You can tell by their fruits!

I am an ex-catholic who found God by acceping His Son into my heart and calling on His Name.

Oh the Glory! :)

[tiernan87]

is it not possible there are SOME Catholics who are caught up in what THEY have made their religion into while there are others who faithfully follow the Church and are TRUE Christians? I would say, yes. it is. Just as i believe that the Catholic Church is the One, True, Holy, Apostolic Church, but there are Protestants (most in fact) that are true Christ-following people who are indeed going to be with their Savior when they pass on.

[Christian3269]

tiernan - it all depends on their heart. If they believe with all of their heart that the theory of transubstantiation is true, then they are not Christian. The only reason you say and believe that the Catholic Church is the one true holy roman church is because you recite it week after week after week after week after week when you go to their m ass. I will be very very blunt and honest, it is brainwashing at its finest. Mind control over the people. It's scary! Come to know Jesus outside of it

[tiernan87]

i don't buy that. i was raised a Reformed calvinist. i converted three years ago when i was 18 after studying the fathers of the Church and the Bible. About transubstantiation: John 6 says "You must EAT MY FLESH and DRINK MY BLOOD....MY FLESH IS TRULY FOOD...MY BLOOD TRULY DRINK." Pretty cut-and-dry to me. Also, whenever Paul talks about Communion, it is obvious that it is MORE THAN A SYMBOL. "Whosoever eats or drinks without RECOGNIZING THE BODY...." and all that.

[Christian3269]

also, I can't get this out of my mind because it's very difficult to witness to catholics. I feel as if I left something out. It does depend on the persons heart, but the truth of the matter is this. The Holy Spirit can only convict a human heart to repent but since the roman churches are filled with idols and false gods of all sorts then the Holy Spirit will not be there to convict. So, it's difficult to say if catholics are saved. I know there leader isn't, why would the follower? truly scary!

[tiernan87]

Read Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Ignatius of Antioch and all of the Church Fathers. They were Catholic. Their writings are part of the foundation of Christianity. And ANY Biblical scholar (protestant or otherwise) will say these were the men who began the study of theology. I should know, i was taught that in my religion and Biblical literature classes i take at my WESLEYAN university. Any true Biblical scholar will recognize the authenticity of CATHOLICS such as Thomas Aquinas.

[soslica]

Anti-Catholicism: The last acceptable bias in America. Thank you for proving it.

[skumringbegravelse]

Anti-Semitism too, but Catholics and Jews are still the kickable minorities in this country.

[Liracomx]

The scary part is you closing yourself off to the Truth.

You're saying that the Holy Spirit cannot reach Catholics because of its false "idols". How can you give more credence and power to the devil than to God? THAT is not Christian.

If the Holy Spirit doesn't convict people to change from Catholicism, it's because He cannot lead them to a lie.

Also, what happened to "love your neighbor"? That includes "enemies", unless Catholics are not even that. I'll pray He leads you to find the Truth.

[kategatsby]

I used to believe that - taught the Bible in famous studies in the USA and International, know the WORD OF GOD, love the Lord and at 70 and 76 my husband and I turned around and found that we were not in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. We were stunned to discover that what Fulton Sheen said was true!! "here are only a handful of Americans who hate the Catholic Church, though there are millions who hate what they think the Church is." We were ignorant (not stupid) of the TRUTH!

[Christian3269]

Terry, my goodness! What are you saying?

Do you honestly believe that the New Covenant between God and men comes through Catholicism?

I don't believe for one second you taught Scripture, not for one second ma'am.

[wordonfirevideo]

Friend, you have an advanced, graduate degree in anti-Catholic prejudice! Who taught you this nonsense? "Roman doctrine" is nothing but a distillation of the essential teachings of the Bible. All of the Catholic spiritual masters--Irenaeus, Augustine, Jerome, Chrysostom, Aquinas, Anselm, John of the Cross, Newman, Chesterton, etc.--are deeply biblical. The Catholic liturgy is, from beginning to end, scriptural. I might suggest you read Dr. Scott Hahn on all this.

[Christian3269]

Funny how Walt takes the Lord's Name in vain before Glorifying Mary before his death! Walt is a Christian?

I don't think a Christian would do what Clint's character would have done.

Walt was a Roman Catholic believer, right?

[mshirley99]

So, you're saying that a Christian wouldn't act as Christ did?

[Christian3269]

No, I' m saying Clint is a catholic believer and he is truly acting like a catholic would.

He takes the Lord name in vain while glorifying mary before his death.

This is not Christianity mshirley99

[bigstabby]

How was Walt a "christ-figure"? I don't know what that means either. But it means Walt was like Christ, can someone please explain to me why?

[wordonfirevideo]

Watch the video!

[bigstabby]

I did. I didn't get it. Oh well.lol

[Henchberg]

Great video. I saw this film a few weeks ago and really enjoyed it but never picked up on that theme. In a way the priest is one of the more sympathetic characters in the film as well. Even when he is repeatedly put down by Eastwood's character he still compares favourably with the other (at least the white) chatacters who live far more self obsesses and vapid lives.

[murse23]

the character was an athiest father!! how can you compare him with Christ??t!! why you didn't mention his dead relationship with the Church(the instituion) and his atheism ...he only goes to church in the name of the memory of his wife who was a devoted catholic.Love is everything.Loves conqurs all.I think this is the essance of the film but also the teaching of Jeus.This is what I think they have in commun!!...and that is an intense film &character indeed

[wordonfirevideo]

First of all, how do you know he was an atheist? He did go to confession, after all. But secondly, and more importantly, the moral status of a literary or cinematic character does not in itself determine whether he or she is a figure of Christ. Think of Graham Greene's "whisky priest" or Cool Hand Luke, neither of whom is a perfect moral specimin. Nevertheless, they embody some aspect of Christ's person or activity.

[elvismilk]

Fr. Barron, just want to chime in here for a second. Have we forgotten the significance of the"non Christ like" car wash scene?, in Cool Hand Luke, or Jack in Carnal Knowledge giving Ann a piece of his manly"Christ" mind. Moral specimens?, depends on absolutes for those that judge.

[murse23]

about eveil father its interesting to read about Evl in Sartre's book Saint Genet1!THE EVIL SI ALAWAYS IS THE OTHER !!

[jyd0076900]

It would also be interesting to examine the role of the sacrament of reconciliation in the film. After resisting the persistent priest the entire movie, he eventually goes before his death, but confesses everything except the more serious sin, murder. It's almost as if the "sacrament" for Walt occurred when he confessed to the boy afterwards.

[sherdog1981]

You certainly don't have to be a seminarian to appreciate the articulation.

[northwestern111]

As a former student from St. Mary of Lake Mundelein Seminary, you always seem to surprise me with how you are able to articulate the inner divine beauty of Catholicism with movies.

[wordonfirevideo]

Thanks! Did I teach you? When were you at Mundelein?

[kairoskronos]

I always find your insights very profound and perceptive. Please do a review of the movie, "Doubt."

[jennywiser]

Me too Please do "Contact." (w/ Jodie Foster)

[muertos06]

MarkGauvreau did a review of it. You should go see. If you haven't discovered his channel yet, it is splendid. One of my favorite Catholics on youtube. He has commentary for everything.

[benchwarmerbenji]

Great review Father. I must say Eastwood's "Million Dollar Baby" had me feeling really depressed when I saw it a couple of years ago (as it makes a dangerously persuasive case for the culture of death), and I did lose a bit of respect for the man. But it was wonderful to see Clint Eastwood embrace the Catholic perspective so openly in this movie, and I hope that we see a little more of it in his future projects!

[wordonfirevideo]

Yes, I agree with you. I thought that "Million Dollar Baby" was a beautifully crafted, well-acted movie, but left us with a lot of ambiguity at the end. This one is much more satisfying thematically.

[elvismilk]

Like the inspired Bible, fiction, fiction and only fiction. Christ figure? LOL, try Mememto, Who Shot Liberty Valance, and The General just for starters. Remember we are talking fiction. Heck the Passion isn't even on your list now that's funny.

[benchwarmerbenji]

What on earth are you talking about? I never claimed that Million Dollar Baby was anything but fiction. I was simply offering my own critical analysis. Whether you choose to agree or not is fine with me either way, but there is no need to throw a tantrum. And as for your comments on the bible, perhaps you should see Father Barron's video where he reviews Bill Maher's Religulous!

[muertos06]

False assertion, false assertion, and only false assertion on your part elvismilk.

[elvismilk]

No more false than a Father who sends his himself child down for a blood sacrifice, doesn't the father go down with the ship in the real world?

[muertos06]

A month? It took you a month to say that elvismilk?

Any more non-sequitor babble?

[elvismilk]

If you'd like I could provide more babble, what's your flavor? Hopefully you are a nutjob believer in the never been proven to exist, invisible, unchanging, matterless, timesless thing, let's get started, Mr. NO Proof.

[muertos06]

Haha, you enjoy typing fallacious non sequitor babble? I'll let you have your fun then. Like when my nephew throws a tantrum, I leave him be.

[elvismilk]

Leave him be all you want, but sadly all Catholics react and expect vengence just like the young Father in Torino, he's left standing on the grass, hoping for blood, but guess what Clint shoves it back in his religions face and says, man is all the hope there is and has ever been.

[muertos06]

The "him" that I'm referring to is you. My nephew's tantrum was a metaphor for you.

And I'm afraid you are remembering the movie incorrectly. The priest in the movie was never "hoping for blood." He was doing his best to prevent it.

And guess what, Clint's character shoved evil back into it's own face with his Christ-like victory. And he died while citing a prayer because by the end he knew better. Transcendental hope is the only true hope.

[elvismilk]

Well hoping and thinking there will be blood are almost the same idea, the young father couldn't fathom that a human"Clint" could end the tale end any other way, typical believer they have to have Christ crucified, blood shed, Clint does the opposite of old Jehovah he spills his own, instead of his son. Sorry but that is what was prevented.

[elvismilk]

Wrong again, evil wins, Clint dies, he killed for his country in a war, and none of it matters. Young brainwashed kids become pastors, his sons have no relationship with him that he considers meaningful, and the young kids make him feel like "No country for old men". The prayer that is heard is pure artistic genius, give those that believe in that silly nonsense, their little bodily cracker to chew on. Sorry muerto but Clint pulls another one over the eyes of believers, Actor 1, Theology 0

[mooseptrl]

What I don't understand is why is it that people like elvismilk, so convinced that the Bible and God are false, must always give some sort of input on any topic regarding Christianity? Is there perhaps some doubt in your own opinion of non-belief? Or maybe you are pathetically trying to convince the world that you are right. It is apparent that you have no respect for others beliefs, but the pendulum swings both ways: you have no proof Christians are wrong either.

[mooseptrl]

And in regards to this review: This is someone's opinion and interpretation of what the writer was trying to convey. Perhaps it is NOT the actual message of the film, but the best part about movies is that you can interpret as you wish. If you disagree, good for you. That is YOUR opinion, which you are entitled to and may express it. But you don't need to go off on a rant about how you think the Christian faith is "rubbish." It is entirely uncalled for, and completely juvenile.

[elvismilk]

Juvenile, Bah! mad the teacher keeps telling you 2+2=4, but you insist Jesus says it's 5. Opinion does not equate to correct information. Disagreement does not fit into your make up, it can't , faith and wiping your feet of unyielding non-believers is your apostolistic ACT. Three days to you faithers is 48hours to Mr. Perfect's whale of tale "resurrection" , LOL. New title Cruci"fiction". by Mel Gibson.

[mooseptrl]

If you are referring to yourself as the teacher, I think that deserves a LMFAO, For you have taught nothing. Only the fact that you know nothing. And no, opinion does not equate the correct information, but neither do you. And if it can't fit into my make up, than how does it fit yours? You again contradict yourself as you have so many times. I am sick of your pointless dribble.

[elvismilk]

Contradiction, you mean like the many in the Bible? The inspired word of an invisible universe creator. LOL, You nutjobs can't even figure out Judas's last hours on earth. Talking about teaching correct information, what story is the right one?, or are we back to 2+2=5.

[elvismilk]

Written from the mind that is convinced Christianity needs to tell the world it's right, LOL. Doubt is what you are about, if you knew, Faith, would not be part of your repertoire. I am just trying to convince people the world is round, not square like your God friend does. Trust me, it's not him keeping you from falling over the edge. Hint..keep avoiding bringing up the Bible.

[muertos06]

Oh, and just in case you're not able to figure it out, as evidenced by your commentary history, I figured I'll take the time to explain to you why you made a leap in logic.

To argue that "hoping" and "thinking" is the "same idea" --- is akin to saying that a student, who thinks he may fail an exam, hopes he does.

I assure you, a student may think he could possibly fail, but most certainly doesn't hope for failure.

The only failure I see is your argument, milky.

[elvismilk]

Wrong ,a student that hopes he is going to fail is thinking that he will. Hopes are thoughts, thoughts aren't hopes, so when I say the father was hoping for blood, he has lost faith there wouldn't be, standing on the lawn prevented nothing, it's the same self fulfilling prophecy nonsense in the new testament, Clint just plans his own cruci"fiction"on his own terms.

[muertos06]

An easy, yet expected, misunderstanding on your part. I never implied that a student who hopes to fail is not thinking he will. I never denied that. Of course you're brilliant at putting words in other people's mouths.

I simply, and rightfully, corrected you on your assertion that thinking there will be blood is synonymous with hoping for blood. You asserted that it's a logical impossibility to assume otherwise, and I corrected you. And in doing so, preserved this film from your distortion.

[elvismilk]

Ok let's take the title "There will be blood", I am satisfied in saying that the thought of blood surely was hoped for, therefore the same synonymous process in that film, Sinclair's book is similiar, but the film contains the same message, there is no God, Justice or Good prevailing, Evil wins, or a least shares in the spoils.

[muertos06]

Yeah you made it clear in PM that you glorify evil. You glorify the message that there is no prevailing Justice or Goodness. Only evil.

A fallacious argument that is subjectively satisfying does not make it's fallacies objectively dissipate.

[elvismilk]

The reality of the whole situation is that theology is the evil, it poisons what we cherish as thinking beings, the mind. Clint tried to convey that message to thinking reasoning human beings to figure out.

[muertos06]

No, hoping and thinking there will be blood is not the same idea. You've made a leap in logic. It's clear what level your intellectual capability is at.

You've made an interpretation that is non-sensical and goes against the tide of Clint's explicit direction and meaning of the film. Don't pretend to talk about art to an art major, son.

And I see you layered on even more emotional assertions. Your appeal to arbitrary subjectivity as a means to present objective counter arguments fail.

[elvismilk]

Yeah and you understand quantum theory also, LOL The father thought there would be blood, revenge, hell type drippings, hoping resulting from the thought, therefore a thought, real hope would have stayed home. The state let the father know who's in charge, and Clint let the audience know he was tired of killing, and would take his life on his own terms. Suicide is ok, watch MDBaby again

[muertos06]

You're creating a false dilemma that doesn't even remotely exist in the film.

[elvismilk]

Because you can't understand how it could exist makes it remotely nonexistent?, very interesting, I think I might have proved something.

[muertos06]

The only thing I deny is the arbitrary false dilemma you needlessly set up for certain characters in the movie. Such as stating the priest was "hoping" for blood. Only an idiot would claim that after watching this beautiful film. Since you set it up, I guess that proves something about you.

[muertos06]

I guess the soldiers that went looking for Private Ryan were "hoping" to be killed too.

[elvismilk]

Interesting yet typical response, you bring into the discussion a war movie, which the two I have decide to discuss are not. What does the Private Ryan movie have to do with what I was comparing? I do know they hoped they would come home thinking that they wouldn't. But we are talking about a stateside theological war in Gran Torino, and also evident in There will be blood, so let's continue in that vein.

[muertos06]

Actor 1, Theology 1, elvis 0.

[elvismilk]

Actor 2, Theology 0, muertos -1

[muertos06]

Actor 3, Theology 2, milky -2

[elvismilk]

Cuter, I'll give you that, I smiled and am still chuckling.

Muertos 15 Milky love

[muertos06]

Yeah I know, your arguments are funny aren't they? I'm chuckling too.

muertos amor

[mooseptrl]

The Passion?? The character WAS Christ. He's talking about Christ FIGURES. It's only funny to someone who wasn't paying attention in literature class...

[elvismilk]

Exactly, the most unlike Christ figure ever was Jesus, the rest is just canonical myth making at it's finest. Frankenstein is a better analogy for what the church has created in regards to Christ. See ya mooseptrl in lit 101

[mooseptrl]

For someone who regards the Bible as fiction, you don't really have too much room to talk about what figures are "Christ like." If you've ever actually read the Bible, you would know where the term "Christ figure" comes from. And then you would realize that the character of Jesus is more of a "Christ figure" in The Passion because its the same story from which the term "Christ figure" originates.

[elvismilk]

This took weeks to think up, come on moose. I have read the Bible, so what? I guess you hate sarcasm and irony, or just don't understand them when written and then read by your eyes and mind, oh well. How fiction and not knowing Christ like figures mean anything you have me confused.

[mooseptrl]

With that I can agree: you are indeed confused.

And please excuse my long delayed reply. I for one have a life to live and do not wish to waste it further trying to understand your poorly communicated "irony" and "sarcasm." I for one was trying to make conversation, and instead of giving a mature response, you supposedly gave me irony and sarcasm. It is apparent that you and I do not share the same beliefs, and in such, should simply agree to disagree.

[elvismilk]

Yeah, confused on how people like you believe 2+2=5 and God can make a square circle, oh well Galileo shook his head as much as do, and we both know, in his case knew, the truth, at least the reality of this world, and not some other guaranteed better one, created by some guy who has only this one as proof of his magnificent grandeur. Only Jesus can push his chips all in, why? because he's eternal, LOL, pure rubbish.

[Fire4Christ08]

Fr. Barron, should we as Catholic Christians, watch movies in general that use God's and Jesus' name as curse words??!!

Do you pray over it, and still enjoy the movie??

[wordonfirevideo]

This is an important issue, and I'm glad you brought it up. I think it's so important to distinguish between what a director shows and what a director morally approves of. Eastwood shows his character as crude, racist, violent, and foul-mouthed, but this doesn't mean for a second that he necessarily approves of these qualities. And so I can admire the movie deeply (as I do) without approving of all of the behavior of the characters in it.

[PrincessDiana161]

Great review! Just saw this movie tonight, I'm glad I didn't see this before :)

[NutCheese]

I told you it was a good movie! And you're welcome for me not sending you this video before you saw the movie. I was going to but I decided I would be nice for a change. ;)

[PrincessDiana161]

You're a good Cheese :D

[FatherJeffrey]

Absolute top notch video as always. Keep up the great media ministry.

[jackhoffmaster123]

"Violence awakens more violence" seems to be a theme that you like to grab on to in most of your commentary. When does the Church's teaching on Just War come into play in your theology? I can be a martyr as quick as anyone, but if someone comes into my house to take or harm one of my little girls, he will not make it out. I would never sit back and allow that to happen to my girls, nor would the Church ask me to do such a thing. There is a time for every purpose under heaven; even Christ whipped

[wordonfirevideo]

Quite right. I don't recommend non-violence in every circumstance. Sometimes, the only way to battle injustice effectively is through force. Nevertheless, the path of redemptive non-violence should be used whenever possible. It should be the default position for followers of Christ.

[jackhoffmaster123]

Just checking. : ) Sincerely, Thank you Father for your ministry. May God Bless you and your work.

[MarkGauvreau]

Brilliant.

[newworldorder08]

"Go ahead, make my day" :-D I guess God said that to the devil when the devil wanted to overthrow Him through sin. hehehe I guess the devil is still really pissed by that trick. Thank you Father for the insight.

[FarmersMinistry]

Well Said..God Bless you brother, stay encouraged, I know its not easy doing God's work...because everybody is a critic, but God knows.

[warpedoctave]

I just watched the movie last night and had the worst expectations. I was very gladly surprised. My brother and I had just watched "outlander" which was total garbage, so "Gran Torino" was a huge relief. Thank you again for your wonderful insight . I have never seen cool hand Luke and the other movies you mention, but i will definitely netflix them today. Thanks Fr. Barron

[muertos06]

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was waiting for you to make a commentary about this movie!!! Thank you Fr. Barron. Great insight as usual.