B2B - BrainToBrain: A BCI Experiment - May 2009

[SujamiZ]

Read accelerando, the stuff in this video is just the beginning.

[fristytron]

so kids, start learning binary code!

[GenoSkill]

with BLIND people it didn't work. Brain to Brain concept FAIL.

[JINXZER]

@GenoSkill Hi I'm posting on the brain to brain comment, you said with blind people brain to brain failed, thats becuase they have no visual sensory, thierfor part of thier visual cortex in thier brain has been not used thierfor the brain process the information precied by the usuable sensory. I think this would work on blind people we just have to attach a sensor to thier toung.

[csguy12]

@GenoSkill

Actually, binaural beats could be used for that instead of light then.

[proceedapathy]

I kind of don't understand, can somebody fill me in.. wait, just explain it brain to brain! HAHA

[viperior]

We must use this to train AI to our own brain workings.

Once they learn how to be more like us, perhaps they can surpass our intelligence and spark the singularity.

I'm hungry!

[CatharticWeek]

Aaaaaaweeeeeeeeesome!

[LaserGoPEWPEW]

5% of our brain is used. The other 95% = possibilities

[pinkubento]

Wrong.

[WALTKRIEG]

Wrong ! All the brain cells are used. By exemple, a man who suffured of brain dammages, may probably recuperate because other cells take the places of the destroyed cells.

[sea4ever7241]

This is really awesome, should put more time into understanding the brain so that it's no longer 'imagine moving your left arm' to send a 0, but rather that it picks up something faster and easier. :) Can't wait for the wireless brain-cap.

[MsVader]

I find this v exciting - but at what point will we have communication with BtB/HCI that is more than left or right, on or off, 1 or 0, . or -? At what point can we convey more complex data/emotion and how? And will that require "training" to decode it?Having the pc/internet to convey information isn't such a bad thing, it means that this can be done with 2 parties anywhere in the world where there is a network connection.Can this be measured in a more direct way bet 2 people in adjoining rooms?

[johnnyt]

Do not confuse this with telepathy, this is more like "Look Maw, No Hands and No Mouth!!"

I can see how this could be something the military would be interested in with increased bit rates, silent communication.

Wonder who's funding.....

[OwenNein]

Tinfoil a bit tight?

[ZirconCode]

This video looks way better than their website, maybe they should have embedded it x.x

[ivucica]

This hardly shows a communication through power of brain ALONE. LED, for one. Besides, the computer is recognizing pattern extracted from person. So, computer and LED are necessary just for decoding info (not counting transmission).

[psinet32]

By which law of nature did you expect ESP would be channeled?

Furthermore, by definition, watching recorded video IS extra sensory. You were not there when the event occured, it was beyond your biological senses, and yet you witnessed the event.

I wish the net was a smarter place. I get so depressed by all the morons creating so much white noise. It is almost pointless using the net for intelligent discussion. Every 2bit moron wants to add his unintelligible opinion.

[psinet32]

I cant believe you amatuers expect that there will be a technology called ESP that can somehow link into a nonexistent sense perception that has no foundation, reciever or processing equipment in the brain. Either the sensory infrastructure is there (smell, touch, taste, sound, sight) and we utilise that, or we dont use B2B communication. This is not Star Trek. The idea of ESP is a fantasy, and we are trying to make a real approximation, not ESP is real and we are trying to understand it.

[psinet32]

yes it is. You expect they can use some magical ESP ether to send thoughts?

[dpodhola]

Really cool stuff guys. This is surely a building block to something new.

[womblekewl]

Very interesting! But, how does the LED flashing translate into sufficient brain activity to produce a 0 or 1 in the brain of person 2?

[sdorshan]

No, don't send ones and zeroes. Humans can't do anything useful with those. Send Dots and Dashes - Morse Code. It's the same thing, but it has meaning. Get some hams to test this and send an actual message.

[psinet32]

daftest misinterpretation of the truth I have seen i a while. 1 and zero are different to dot and dash? You need an ontological maths lesson.

[gamozak]

So the most important and crucial task to accomplish is to make a device that is able to transfer information into thoughts of the brain. Without this device real brain-to-computer-to-brain communication would not be possible. My opinion is that the research should be concentrated to developing computer to brain interface.

[gamozak]

This is not true brain-to-brain communication but brain-to-computer-to-web-to-co­mputer-to-brain-to-computer-to­-brain. It is interesting experiment but real new and exciting when you would not need computer on the recipient side to decode brainwaves of the recipient to be able to decode the message when this is solved this would be really brain-to-brain communication or exactly brain-to-computer-to-web-to-co­mputer-to-brain. This would be then real revolution like borg in star trek TNG series.

[psinet32]

SO DUMB. I suppose P2P isnt really P2P because it travels over the internet?

[jamescjj]

Also any b2b is going to involve technology to facilitate - from Reading, transmitting and writing information.

[jotaeme1979]

i agree, but... isn't that what we already do?, hitting keys on a keyboard so the information is coded to computer language and then reproduced to human language again.

You are right too about nobody talked about conscious thought. But is important to notice that brain here is merely a conducting material, not the generator of the input. We can also use the skin to send information with low voltage electricity. But of course is always easier to criticize than making it, and you did something.

[gamozak]

what we usually do is to think speak or write our thoughts to computer then it is transfered to other computer and presented to recipient which interprets them. This is now already happening so this experiment involves one decoding step more then is usually needed. But as experiment it shows that is possible to transfer thoughts directly to computer transmit it to another computer and feed it to recipients brain. When the recipient could directly decode information fed to their brains.

[jamescjj]

Nobody said anything about conscious thought, you might call that mind-to-mind, whether one uses the senses or stimulates the brain directly both result in brain stimulation.

[slartibartfats]

This is not brain to brain communication, it is brain to computer communication via EEG. That is why it is termed BCI and not BBI (or B2B). The computer decodes the EEG of the sender and displays the information to the recipient . The use of the internet is incidental.

[jotaeme1979]

That is interesting, but calling it brain to brain communication is too optimistic, or simply wrong. What I see here are the human senses being used as a part of the system. Stimuli, not thinkings. So the brain doesn't generate any message, just transmits, just like a wire conducting electricity. The brain is involved, of course, because we can't perceive without it, but no brain to brain communication since no thoughts generated in the brain are transmited. Anyway, it was cool to see it.

[rg0057]

I'm not really seeing anything new here.

We've known that brainwaves can be read by a computer to determine things such as arm movements and visual input.

The sender is not sending 1's and 0's, but rather "left arm" and "right arm".

The immediate and ultimate receivers are both PCs and other hardware.

The other brain is merely being used as some extra unnecessary communication medium. It is not aware of 0, 1, left arm or right arm, and therefore this is not Brain-to-Brain.

[jamescjj]

Remember this is a proof of concept trial meant to try and start doing BCI both ways, "from little acorns ..." :)

[jamescjj]

As for what constitutes "true" brain to brain - you tell me. The information is being read from the visual cortex of the receIver using standard SSVEPs.

[metsesell]

"True" B2B would be decoding information directly from brain signals (any cortex you like) and "writing" them directly into the brain without the need of intermediate perception organs like eyes, ears etc. In this experiment there was two different types of readings done from brain (from sender's and receiver's brain) but the information was sent into receivers brain through visual stimuli - so this demonstrates "brain -> pc -> eye -> brain -> pc" communication not "brain -> pc -> brain".

[jamescjj]

So, like I said then, this experiment describes brain-to- brain! However circuitous the route! There is no escaping that fact, whichever way you look at it.

[jamescjj]

Some interesting comments keep them coming :) note I never said the receiver was aware of the incoming data they are in effect just a conduit.

[Tribe84]

as i understand it, the answer is still captured by a brainwave. thus, the brain "decodes" the flashing light.

[funtala]

You have the confound that the LED rate was disturbing the EEG signal on the receiver side, and not the visual cortex generating the differential signal.

[chenzii]

i dont understand how the receiver is understanding what digit they are receiving...are they counting the flashes? it seems kinda far fetched to me that your brain can naturally decipher binary code via led flashing...

[metsesell]

Every communication between two people is in a strict sense B2B communication. The "true" B2B would be when the need for intermediate perception organs between senders brain and receivers brain are removed. This very experiment was just demonstrating the ability to decode of brain signals, but not wiring them directly into brain.

[lvl69engineer]

How is the digit received in the other person's brain? If the LED is flashing and the person gets the digit from that, that's not the same thing as a digital one being transmitted directly to the receiver's brain.

[Nadiditta]

exactly!!! you're 100% right!