hi i would love to check these composers out, but i can not find any soundclips online. do you have a link which I could use? given what I read, I am particularly interested in Smetanin.
No thank you. you' ve been very nice in forstering a serious debate, as opposed to "pezzajay," who is only capable of insulting...Anyway you are right, clearly all these ideas are very subjective. And in response to sazza1980 I say that he clearly misunderstood my comment, not too mention having himslef a pretty stiff idea of what aesthetic should or should not be. I do not oppose references to the past per se, I oppose falling into revival.
No worries mate. Personally, I think that revival is a good thing - I do believe it can work. As long as it is not a "pastiche" and still has something personal about it, it can still work, at least to me and possibly sazza 1980.
I've heard a bit of Smartzis, but it's not really my cup of tea. Check out Graeme Koehne and Ross Edwards if you're interested. I'm big fans of their work. You might like Michael Smetanin. Some of his stuff is pretty crazy.
Spissiga, I don't agree with many of your points. If art is merely to find new ways through the quagmire without concern for aesthetics, then it becomes an intellectual wank. I think well-constructed music for entertainment is as worthy as 'revolutionary' music. Just because a composition utilises a technique that has been used before, the worth of that music is not automatically negated. I personally think your views are a little one-dimensional and shallow.
i entirely agree, an excellent example of this would be Bach and his use of Vivaldi's themes in the Brandenburg concertos. that is more than just techniques, its note for note.
i do not seek to win this battle here, and you are right eclecticism is the warhorse of the 20th-century, so everything is possible. But it seems to me that in all fields conservatism is ill-advised, as it leads to stagnation. The point is not trying to reproduce in your music the same feeling you had when you were listening to Chopin as a student, but to develop and propose some entirely new feeling, a new experience, unknown to the masses.
On your point about "all-fields of conservatism" being "ill-advised" - forgive me if I'm taking it into an unnecessary context, but as an example, I am quite the opposite of conservative politically - my politics are VERY social. As a result, I enjoy writing music for communities to be inspired by in the current age, particularly my vocal music. My influence of pop music and Jazz works very well in this regard, therfore. I just thought that was also an interesting point.
But your choices (incorporating jazz etc.) are already known to musicians. They are something that people have done for decades, starting from Gershwin or the French. So unless you were able to create a style so personal that sounds completely new, then I can notsee how that can be worth pursuuing. And then again this is the old classic battle between progressives and conservatives, between atonal and tonal, between experimental and traditional.
Again, great points. I do think the whole concept of our disagreement is a bit subjective, however. We may have to just agree to disagree - as you said this discussion is a "classic battle." However, on the point of the importance of "newness" in musical style - do consider that Schoenberg once said: "In 50 years children will be whistling my tone rows." Well it's be well over 50 years since the introduction of atonality, and it ain't happening!
Also, the exmples you mentioned are all fine, but related to people imitating composers of the previous generation. In the case of "post-modernits" styles, we are often seeing a connection with composers that are as far back as 4 or 5 generations. This is why I question your choices. They are about reviving, not renovating and revolutionizing. Reviving is the business of historians, not of artists. Now I am curious about your new music. Perhaps I would like it.
I do believe that entertainment could not be part of art music. I am certainly entertained by Xenakis and the like. On the other hand, entertainment should not be sought as an end. This is true for kinds of art. By letting common belief dictating what your music should be you surrender to populism, which has NEVER brought significant results throughout history. As a matter of fact the composers you mentioned were often unpopular in their lifetime.
not the Del Tredici or the Coriglliano. With "postmodern" music of this kind, in an era that has shifted his attention on sound (timbre) rather that counterpoint and orchestral sonorities, one can only find success in writing for the media (i.e. film scores)... Once again, my apologies for the arrogant tone.
No apology required. What you say is true in a sense, but I think we have a different point of view about the place of "entertainment" in "serious art music." The 21st Century is a place of many simultaneously existing styles and traditions and there is so much to draw from in what has happened and what exists now. I admire the work our modernist pioneers (i.e Stockhausen/Cage) and I thank them for essentially making music more free, almost to the extent that anything may be considered viable.
But I don't think there is anything wrong with "entertainment" in serious art music, and I don't understand why it is looked upon so unfavourably by some. To create my own style I choose to draw upon tradition and fuse it with other styles like Jazz, music of popular culture, cinematic music, world music and anything else that takes my fancy. I enjoy doing it and I feel that it is honest and has the potential for development.
ounterpoint is one of my major passions, and I have been working on incorporating developments in harmony from Jazz (like modal jazz) into my "art music," for example. The video here shows me mastering more traditional music, before I started fusing it with other sources of inspiration.
It is also worth considering that Stravinsky, Bartok and Schoenberg have all developed their style from a tradition.
Stravinsky's early works were based on Rimsky-Korsakov - Bartok on Liszt and Wagner - and in Schoenberg even elements of Brahms can be seen in his early atonal works. Perhaps technique is not enough, I grant you, but I think that "entertainment" is actually something people are crying out for these days. I think it is more important to develop a personal style from the understanding of technique, than it is to forge some kind of innovation in your music.
Twistijoe, I have to apologize. I realized I have been overly violent, not to say a jerk, in my earlier comment. However, I do believe that technique is not enough to achieve art. You may achieve entertainment but not art. And similarly when reviving composers of the far past. It can be useful, but only if aware of the stylistic innovation of your own time. Beethoven writing like Bach would not have been Beethoven. Similarly it is the Ligeti and the Stockhausen who will be remembered.(follow)
good skills, but please weak up! we are not in the 20th century any more. and forge about the 19th. this is too much john williams wanna be bartok the eclectic...too american...and not in a good way...it would be like a painter painting like picasso. yes it looks nice but would you please get your own style?
Thanks, I wrote this years ago when I was still just developing as a composer. I have begun to develop my own style since then slowly - I think that to create something that doesn't come from some kind of tradition (i.e 19th & 20th C) is to write music with "shallow roots." I am a "postmodernist" so I am seeking a revival of tradition as a means by which to create a musical voice; technique my focus, rather than originality. I believe a personal style can still be achieved this way.
really a nice composition.. i like the orchestration too.. you have a very expressive style! it reminds me a litte bit of Bartók and Korngold.. you're on the right path :D good job. continue that way!
I'm never said never move, I just said Not too much. I also move my body. The musicians can see your emotions everywhere, in your hand gesture, face, eyes... I think it is not correct ineterpretation of my words. Wish you best.
a bit neo-romantic. the violin has such a wide range of colors that you only began to scratch the surface of. I wish I could hear more of your music. thanks for posting.
Nice composition! You have some good command of the stick. One suggestion, I'm sure you've heard it before, get your head out of the score. Communicate with your players via facial expressions and eye gestures. As the composer, I'm sure you know the score. Make eye contact with your soloist. I would like to hear the rest of the piece, but I'm guessing that since it was a class situation that is all that was filmed?
I really enjoyed that! I love symphonic music (and I used to play the violin, never any good at it) and I think your concerto is quite beautiful. Thanks for posting it.
wonderful ,wonderful ....very good conductor honest and very talented....very good instrumentation ....inspiration!! ....congratulations !
Spartakino 3 years ago
Caro signor Boian!!!!
soltanto oggi ho potuto vedere ed ascoltare il vostro video.
grazie d'inviarmelo..e...mi permettete un'opinione,giovane maestro?
siete un vero romantico!
BRAVO!
me piace MOLTISSIMO!
Nina Galantha,vostra devota amica ed ammiratrice dall'Argentina
Ankhsnammon 3 years ago
man, 1:49 on is just gorgeous.
fiddlinmatt 3 years ago
@fiddlinmatt mate! wait till you hear the next bit - the bit that isn't there - i played in the recording and love this to bits..
s4050326 10 months ago
oi dont show that spissiga anything
and he recons hes so good he can fucken
find them himself
public schooled bitch
pezzajay 3 years ago
hi i would love to check these composers out, but i can not find any soundclips online. do you have a link which I could use? given what I read, I am particularly interested in Smetanin.
spissiga 3 years ago
I notice you guys are Australian. What do you think of Philip Samartzis? I think he is great.
spissiga 3 years ago
No thank you. you' ve been very nice in forstering a serious debate, as opposed to "pezzajay," who is only capable of insulting...Anyway you are right, clearly all these ideas are very subjective. And in response to sazza1980 I say that he clearly misunderstood my comment, not too mention having himslef a pretty stiff idea of what aesthetic should or should not be. I do not oppose references to the past per se, I oppose falling into revival.
spissiga 3 years ago
No worries mate. Personally, I think that revival is a good thing - I do believe it can work. As long as it is not a "pastiche" and still has something personal about it, it can still work, at least to me and possibly sazza 1980.
I've heard a bit of Smartzis, but it's not really my cup of tea. Check out Graeme Koehne and Ross Edwards if you're interested. I'm big fans of their work. You might like Michael Smetanin. Some of his stuff is pretty crazy.
twistiejoe 3 years ago
ps.... Spissiga is adopted
pezzajay 3 years ago
Spissiga, I don't agree with many of your points. If art is merely to find new ways through the quagmire without concern for aesthetics, then it becomes an intellectual wank. I think well-constructed music for entertainment is as worthy as 'revolutionary' music. Just because a composition utilises a technique that has been used before, the worth of that music is not automatically negated. I personally think your views are a little one-dimensional and shallow.
sazza1980 3 years ago
i entirely agree, an excellent example of this would be Bach and his use of Vivaldi's themes in the Brandenburg concertos. that is more than just techniques, its note for note.
minari5 3 years ago
i do not seek to win this battle here, and you are right eclecticism is the warhorse of the 20th-century, so everything is possible. But it seems to me that in all fields conservatism is ill-advised, as it leads to stagnation. The point is not trying to reproduce in your music the same feeling you had when you were listening to Chopin as a student, but to develop and propose some entirely new feeling, a new experience, unknown to the masses.
spissiga 3 years ago
On your point about "all-fields of conservatism" being "ill-advised" - forgive me if I'm taking it into an unnecessary context, but as an example, I am quite the opposite of conservative politically - my politics are VERY social. As a result, I enjoy writing music for communities to be inspired by in the current age, particularly my vocal music. My influence of pop music and Jazz works very well in this regard, therfore. I just thought that was also an interesting point.
twistiejoe 3 years ago
In the end, thank you for this dicussion - I have actually enjoyed it even though we clearly disagree. As I say, it is subjective, I think.
twistiejoe 3 years ago
But your choices (incorporating jazz etc.) are already known to musicians. They are something that people have done for decades, starting from Gershwin or the French. So unless you were able to create a style so personal that sounds completely new, then I can notsee how that can be worth pursuuing. And then again this is the old classic battle between progressives and conservatives, between atonal and tonal, between experimental and traditional.
spissiga 3 years ago
Again, great points. I do think the whole concept of our disagreement is a bit subjective, however. We may have to just agree to disagree - as you said this discussion is a "classic battle." However, on the point of the importance of "newness" in musical style - do consider that Schoenberg once said: "In 50 years children will be whistling my tone rows." Well it's be well over 50 years since the introduction of atonality, and it ain't happening!
twistiejoe 3 years ago
Also, the exmples you mentioned are all fine, but related to people imitating composers of the previous generation. In the case of "post-modernits" styles, we are often seeing a connection with composers that are as far back as 4 or 5 generations. This is why I question your choices. They are about reviving, not renovating and revolutionizing. Reviving is the business of historians, not of artists. Now I am curious about your new music. Perhaps I would like it.
spissiga 3 years ago
I do believe that entertainment could not be part of art music. I am certainly entertained by Xenakis and the like. On the other hand, entertainment should not be sought as an end. This is true for kinds of art. By letting common belief dictating what your music should be you surrender to populism, which has NEVER brought significant results throughout history. As a matter of fact the composers you mentioned were often unpopular in their lifetime.
spissiga 3 years ago
who the fuck is this spissiga punk.
Go build an effin bridge and get over yourself ai...
pezzajay 3 years ago
not the Del Tredici or the Coriglliano. With "postmodern" music of this kind, in an era that has shifted his attention on sound (timbre) rather that counterpoint and orchestral sonorities, one can only find success in writing for the media (i.e. film scores)... Once again, my apologies for the arrogant tone.
spissiga 3 years ago
No apology required. What you say is true in a sense, but I think we have a different point of view about the place of "entertainment" in "serious art music." The 21st Century is a place of many simultaneously existing styles and traditions and there is so much to draw from in what has happened and what exists now. I admire the work our modernist pioneers (i.e Stockhausen/Cage) and I thank them for essentially making music more free, almost to the extent that anything may be considered viable.
twistiejoe 3 years ago
But I don't think there is anything wrong with "entertainment" in serious art music, and I don't understand why it is looked upon so unfavourably by some. To create my own style I choose to draw upon tradition and fuse it with other styles like Jazz, music of popular culture, cinematic music, world music and anything else that takes my fancy. I enjoy doing it and I feel that it is honest and has the potential for development.
twistiejoe 3 years ago
ounterpoint is one of my major passions, and I have been working on incorporating developments in harmony from Jazz (like modal jazz) into my "art music," for example. The video here shows me mastering more traditional music, before I started fusing it with other sources of inspiration.
It is also worth considering that Stravinsky, Bartok and Schoenberg have all developed their style from a tradition.
twistiejoe 3 years ago
Stravinsky's early works were based on Rimsky-Korsakov - Bartok on Liszt and Wagner - and in Schoenberg even elements of Brahms can be seen in his early atonal works. Perhaps technique is not enough, I grant you, but I think that "entertainment" is actually something people are crying out for these days. I think it is more important to develop a personal style from the understanding of technique, than it is to forge some kind of innovation in your music.
twistiejoe 3 years ago
As I have described, even some of the greatest composers developed their language from a strong tradition.
twistiejoe 3 years ago
Twistijoe, I have to apologize. I realized I have been overly violent, not to say a jerk, in my earlier comment. However, I do believe that technique is not enough to achieve art. You may achieve entertainment but not art. And similarly when reviving composers of the far past. It can be useful, but only if aware of the stylistic innovation of your own time. Beethoven writing like Bach would not have been Beethoven. Similarly it is the Ligeti and the Stockhausen who will be remembered.(follow)
spissiga 3 years ago
good skills, but please weak up! we are not in the 20th century any more. and forge about the 19th. this is too much john williams wanna be bartok the eclectic...too american...and not in a good way...it would be like a painter painting like picasso. yes it looks nice but would you please get your own style?
spissiga 3 years ago
Thanks, I wrote this years ago when I was still just developing as a composer. I have begun to develop my own style since then slowly - I think that to create something that doesn't come from some kind of tradition (i.e 19th & 20th C) is to write music with "shallow roots." I am a "postmodernist" so I am seeking a revival of tradition as a means by which to create a musical voice; technique my focus, rather than originality. I believe a personal style can still be achieved this way.
twistiejoe 3 years ago
really a nice composition.. i like the orchestration too.. you have a very expressive style! it reminds me a litte bit of Bartók and Korngold.. you're on the right path :D good job. continue that way!
Bobigno 3 years ago
I agree with both of you. I think that Maestro meant that he wouldn't bob from the heels as much as our above conductor did.
By the way, to the composer/conductor, this work is very beautiful. Do you have sheet music published or available?
fiddlinmatt 3 years ago
eso fue maravilloso !!
were can i hear more???
ganso4u 4 years ago
I'm never said never move, I just said Not too much. I also move my body. The musicians can see your emotions everywhere, in your hand gesture, face, eyes... I think it is not correct ineterpretation of my words. Wish you best.
MaestroVNG 4 years ago
It will be better if you NOT to move your mouth, your body and your phisique too much as you did !
MaestroVNG 4 years ago
a bit neo-romantic. the violin has such a wide range of colors that you only began to scratch the surface of. I wish I could hear more of your music. thanks for posting.
Erloser22 4 years ago
Nice composition! You have some good command of the stick. One suggestion, I'm sure you've heard it before, get your head out of the score. Communicate with your players via facial expressions and eye gestures. As the composer, I'm sure you know the score. Make eye contact with your soloist. I would like to hear the rest of the piece, but I'm guessing that since it was a class situation that is all that was filmed?
Jim91010 4 years ago
I really enjoyed that! I love symphonic music (and I used to play the violin, never any good at it) and I think your concerto is quite beautiful. Thanks for posting it.
christpher451 4 years ago