No obstante, me gustaría que Alemania tuviera un plan de infraestructra semejante al PEIT español. Eso sí, de momento la alta velocidad ferroviaria avanza muy lentamente aquí...
Germany´s railway system won´t become obsolete. The distances between the cities are smaller than in Spain. Therefore, ICE service is good even though the trains run also on old tracks. Spain´s network offers some excellent high speed service but it´s too centralized. Have you ever tried to travel by train from Bilbao to Oviedo or from Murcia to Málaga? However, in Germany you can travel by train from one city to almost any other. This excellent network will also remain in future.
in spain we cant build all the railways we want like in germany because between bilbao and oviedo there are like 30 mountains. Spain is the european union country with more mountains so we have to build a centralized system which is the most efficient.
Tienes razón. Hay que establecer prioridades. No obstante, una conexión ferroviaria Murcia-Málaga en un tiempo de viaje competitivo frente al coche la considero bastante adecuada. Y hablando del coste no debe haber AV en todo el trayecto para alcanzar este objetivo.
sabes sierra nevada? esta justo en el medio entre murcia y malaga y son muchas montañas altas, es muy caro, quizas entre valencia y murcia, pero ya hay autopista buena ahora
Beside of this the railway-net in Germany is 20 times more congested, I don't know how many thousends of miles railways there are.
They invest multibillions each year into the railway-system there and beside of this Germany is paying billions of Dollar for subsidies (European Communitiy) to Spain to finance the railway-system, airports etc... there...
Hola, Solucionfinal2010, aqui "el franchute estupido"... por favor, enviame el mensaje en castellano que con tu inglés de mierda no me enteré de nada, aparte de que pareces muy amargo y con mucho complejo....Hasta la vista!!!!
German ICE3 runs 320 km/h since many years, the german Velaro up to 350 km speed usual traffic speed (both Siemens). As there is much more population and almost no space between the cities to run out the trains the german Velaro does not really make sense in most parts of the country. The Velaro is the fastest serial-train for commercial use, faster then TGV and ICE-3. It has the same look like ICE3, I see it every day because the Velaro is constructed just 1km from my home.
Around 40% high-speed trains in Spain are made by Siemens, and they look like the ICE. However, most of the high-speed trains in Spain are made by renfe, and they look very different than the ICE. The problem of the trains in Germany is the railway, which in most areas is very bad, and that is the reason why the ICEs cannot reach the maximum speed.
Spanish High Speed network is under and intensive expansion programme. Its length surpasses 1000 Km currently. This year many stretches will be opened as Camp de Tarragona-Barcelona, Córdoba-Málaga, or Madrid-Valladolid. Lines to Valencia, Alicante and northern Spain are UC or IE, as well as other minor stretches in the south such as Seville- Granada. By 2010, Spain will have the largest HS (>=300Km/h) network with 2230Km, overtaking Japan, with 2090Km (2010), and France, with 1893Km (2010).
There are other HSTs running in Spain as the CAF/Alstom S104 (20 units, 270Km/h), CAF S120(20 units, 250Km/h, variable gauge) or Talgo S-130(45 units, 250Km/h, variable gauge). The ETR 600 may be included to this family, as 13 units have been ordered but none its still on service.
AVE S103 (Velaro E) is made by Siemens, but isn't the same train that is running in DE, NE or BE (ICE 3 & ICE 3M). Its top speed is 350Km/h (ICE 3 -- 300Km/h). Its power output is 8800KW, higher than ICE's 8000Kw. It holds the world record for an unmodified commercial train at a speed of 403.7Km/h, reached during tests on Spanish tracks in 2006. Look for "Velaro" or "Land speed record for railed vehicles" on Wikipedia. 26 units have been ordered.
little mistake in 1988 TGV Atlantique with no modifications runned at 408km/h! (official world record) to prove the safety for the passengers because they where afraid of the speed (300 to 320km/h!) Look on Wikipedia too!
AVE S102 or Talgo 350 is made by both Bombardier and Talgo. Its top speed in commercial service is 330Km/h, however the european signalling system that allow those speeds (>300Km/h) is in tests (ERTMS 2)and it will not enter in service until 2008, so the trains are running actually at a top speed of 280-300Km/h. It reached in tests a speed of 368Km/h on Spanish tracks in 2006. 46 units have been ordered.
AVE S100 built by the French brand Alstom runs at a top speed of 300Km/h since 1994, two years later it was innaugurated, back in 1992. Spain ordered 24 units, 18 on UIC and 6 on iberian gauge(Currently running in eastern Spain's coastat 220Km/h, as S101 Euromed. They will be transferred to AVE services in 2009 on UIC gauge at 300Km/h.)
Siemens HST (I don't remember the exact model) will be in use over the new TGV Est-Europe in June, alongside the Alstom TGV. And I'm very happy to welcome those nice trains in France.
At night, I like to see the Talgo pendular Paris-Madrid when it crosses my local station (Poitiers). No matter it is from Spain, Germany or planet Mars.
At my knowledge, the first HST in Spain was introduced in '92 between Madrid and Sevilla, has a V-Max of 270 km/h and (sorry) was not built by Siemens or Talgo but Alstom.
French HST in use over TGV Méditerranée line has a V-max of 320 km/h since '01 (confirmed by UIC website).
yes i have to agree the best is german and spain. america is still crawling with its rail system. we seem to lack the will to put forth the money to build a truly high speed system. and even acela barely reaches its max spead of 150mph
That is because the United States are organized in another way: many houses which are spread out. I think that in the USA, the trains can never be good competitors to the aircrafts. I am sure that people in Spain will start using more trains and less aircrafts, just because the Spain is made of big cities. Some airlines are already scared by the trains.
in 2020 full SPain will be comunicated by the AVE. I will say a thing the worst high speed is the italian, its really poor, they are all the day with errors, and problems. I believe that the ebst is the german and french. And its said by a spanish.
You can't never go in the TGV that goes at 574 km/h, the max. speed at the TGV will be 320 km/h in the new HSL, The Ave Pato will be run at 330 km/h and the velaro at 350 km/h. You must be know that the AVE S103 or Velaro is the fastest comercial train in the world with 404 km/h, the TGV of the record, have nearly 20000Kw of power, the TGV "normal" have more or less 9000Kw of power.
Well, have your "AVE" fitted with a 20000KW power engine and try and beat the French...sweetheart the AVE is a fine train, but hundreds of TGV's have been criss-crossing the French countryside for more than 25 years.
Moreover, the last TGV record, in 19191 (515.3km/h) was achieved with an ordinary TGV Atlantique, hundreds of which are in use today. Sorry to disappoint you, Touareg27, but if Spain were at the peak of railway speed, we would know about it.
NO, the First record (515.3) was too with Modificate Tgv.
You can see what is the fastest comercial train, and if you don't know nothing about HS in Spain, is not my problem... and yes, in Marketing your country wins!!
I hope that one day we try to do the same here, with a modificate train.
I'm not certain my knowlege about HS in Spain is OK (is 270 km/h is enough for you?) but I believe the first high speed train in your country was not build by Siemens or Talgo (and it was in... '92!).
Siemens Valero holds the world speed record for unmodified commercial trains which is what counts in the market. All Alstom records had to rely on heavily modified train sets. They nothing more but desperate attempts to have some good PR after Alstom has fallen behind so much technology wise behind the Germans and the Japanese. The company wouldn't be around anylonger if it hadn't been protected by the French government from a takover by Siemens and shortly afterwards from bancruptcy.
However, the ICE does not travel so fast in germany because german railways are very bad. Spanish railways, with many tunnels and bridges, are much better and allow trains to travel faster than in germany. I am sorry, but you have to accept than the german railway system is becoming obsolete.
El Talgo 350 parece un pato. Muy interesante...
StapledNote 1 year ago
No obstante, me gustaría que Alemania tuviera un plan de infraestructra semejante al PEIT español. Eso sí, de momento la alta velocidad ferroviaria avanza muy lentamente aquí...
cemocolo 2 years ago
Germany´s railway system won´t become obsolete. The distances between the cities are smaller than in Spain. Therefore, ICE service is good even though the trains run also on old tracks. Spain´s network offers some excellent high speed service but it´s too centralized. Have you ever tried to travel by train from Bilbao to Oviedo or from Murcia to Málaga? However, in Germany you can travel by train from one city to almost any other. This excellent network will also remain in future.
cemocolo 2 years ago
in spain we cant build all the railways we want like in germany because between bilbao and oviedo there are like 30 mountains. Spain is the european union country with more mountains so we have to build a centralized system which is the most efficient.
kaikovich 2 years ago
@kaikovich
Tienes razón. Hay que establecer prioridades. No obstante, una conexión ferroviaria Murcia-Málaga en un tiempo de viaje competitivo frente al coche la considero bastante adecuada. Y hablando del coste no debe haber AV en todo el trayecto para alcanzar este objetivo.
Un saludo
cemocolo 2 years ago
sabes sierra nevada? esta justo en el medio entre murcia y malaga y son muchas montañas altas, es muy caro, quizas entre valencia y murcia, pero ya hay autopista buena ahora
kaikovich 2 years ago
Vamos, con el ferrocarril de Almanzora ya existía un enlace ferroviario bueno hasta su cierre en los 80.
cemocolo 2 years ago
...@dani1978el:
Beside of this the railway-net in Germany is 20 times more congested, I don't know how many thousends of miles railways there are.
They invest multibillions each year into the railway-system there and beside of this Germany is paying billions of Dollar for subsidies (European Communitiy) to Spain to finance the railway-system, airports etc... there...
Cre7tiv 3 years ago
dani1978el: Bullshit. Germany is much more mountainous or congested. Everywhere you need tunnels, bridges or passing villages/cities.
Cre7tiv 3 years ago
Comment removed
FactoriaUrbana 3 years ago
Hola, Solucionfinal2010, aqui "el franchute estupido"... por favor, enviame el mensaje en castellano que con tu inglés de mierda no me enteré de nada, aparte de que pareces muy amargo y con mucho complejo....Hasta la vista!!!!
levoltaire 4 years ago
AVE S:102 is from Spain and this is a very nice train...
touareg27 4 years ago
Here we can see 2 tipes of trains...the Duck is the spanish and the other one "S:103 Velaro" is from Germany.
touareg27 4 years ago
sorry but this train is a spanish molel not german now spain is a rich country and build trains and a lot of tecnology
torrente125 4 years ago 6
Wow! This is soo great there!! I love the Spanish Highspeedtrains!
Z20900 4 years ago 4
its a german highspeed train made for spain trace
Hubieee 4 years ago
German ICE3 runs 320 km/h since many years, the german Velaro up to 350 km speed usual traffic speed (both Siemens). As there is much more population and almost no space between the cities to run out the trains the german Velaro does not really make sense in most parts of the country. The Velaro is the fastest serial-train for commercial use, faster then TGV and ICE-3. It has the same look like ICE3, I see it every day because the Velaro is constructed just 1km from my home.
Cre7tiv 4 years ago
Around 40% high-speed trains in Spain are made by Siemens, and they look like the ICE. However, most of the high-speed trains in Spain are made by renfe, and they look very different than the ICE. The problem of the trains in Germany is the railway, which in most areas is very bad, and that is the reason why the ICEs cannot reach the maximum speed.
dani1978el 3 years ago
Thank you for the comments!!
touareg27 4 years ago
Spanish High Speed network is under and intensive expansion programme. Its length surpasses 1000 Km currently. This year many stretches will be opened as Camp de Tarragona-Barcelona, Córdoba-Málaga, or Madrid-Valladolid. Lines to Valencia, Alicante and northern Spain are UC or IE, as well as other minor stretches in the south such as Seville- Granada. By 2010, Spain will have the largest HS (>=300Km/h) network with 2230Km, overtaking Japan, with 2090Km (2010), and France, with 1893Km (2010).
enriquecmcl 4 years ago
There are other HSTs running in Spain as the CAF/Alstom S104 (20 units, 270Km/h), CAF S120(20 units, 250Km/h, variable gauge) or Talgo S-130(45 units, 250Km/h, variable gauge). The ETR 600 may be included to this family, as 13 units have been ordered but none its still on service.
enriquecmcl 4 years ago 2
AVE S103 (Velaro E) is made by Siemens, but isn't the same train that is running in DE, NE or BE (ICE 3 & ICE 3M). Its top speed is 350Km/h (ICE 3 -- 300Km/h). Its power output is 8800KW, higher than ICE's 8000Kw. It holds the world record for an unmodified commercial train at a speed of 403.7Km/h, reached during tests on Spanish tracks in 2006. Look for "Velaro" or "Land speed record for railed vehicles" on Wikipedia. 26 units have been ordered.
enriquecmcl 4 years ago 2
little mistake in 1988 TGV Atlantique with no modifications runned at 408km/h! (official world record) to prove the safety for the passengers because they where afraid of the speed (300 to 320km/h!) Look on Wikipedia too!
romjek 4 years ago
AVE S102 or Talgo 350 is made by both Bombardier and Talgo. Its top speed in commercial service is 330Km/h, however the european signalling system that allow those speeds (>300Km/h) is in tests (ERTMS 2)and it will not enter in service until 2008, so the trains are running actually at a top speed of 280-300Km/h. It reached in tests a speed of 368Km/h on Spanish tracks in 2006. 46 units have been ordered.
enriquecmcl 4 years ago
AVE S100 built by the French brand Alstom runs at a top speed of 300Km/h since 1994, two years later it was innaugurated, back in 1992. Spain ordered 24 units, 18 on UIC and 6 on iberian gauge(Currently running in eastern Spain's coastat 220Km/h, as S101 Euromed. They will be transferred to AVE services in 2009 on UIC gauge at 300Km/h.)
enriquecmcl 4 years ago
Siemens HST (I don't remember the exact model) will be in use over the new TGV Est-Europe in June, alongside the Alstom TGV. And I'm very happy to welcome those nice trains in France.
At night, I like to see the Talgo pendular Paris-Madrid when it crosses my local station (Poitiers). No matter it is from Spain, Germany or planet Mars.
Pascal, railfan and committed European.
thebaultpascal 4 years ago
Some commentaries.
At my knowledge, the first HST in Spain was introduced in '92 between Madrid and Sevilla, has a V-Max of 270 km/h and (sorry) was not built by Siemens or Talgo but Alstom.
French HST in use over TGV Méditerranée line has a V-max of 320 km/h since '01 (confirmed by UIC website).
To follow
thebaultpascal 4 years ago
yes i have to agree the best is german and spain. america is still crawling with its rail system. we seem to lack the will to put forth the money to build a truly high speed system. and even acela barely reaches its max spead of 150mph
walterrich 4 years ago
That is because the United States are organized in another way: many houses which are spread out. I think that in the USA, the trains can never be good competitors to the aircrafts. I am sure that people in Spain will start using more trains and less aircrafts, just because the Spain is made of big cities. Some airlines are already scared by the trains.
dani1978el 3 years ago
in 2020 full SPain will be comunicated by the AVE. I will say a thing the worst high speed is the italian, its really poor, they are all the day with errors, and problems. I believe that the ebst is the german and french. And its said by a spanish.
divblau20 4 years ago
You can't never go in the TGV that goes at 574 km/h, the max. speed at the TGV will be 320 km/h in the new HSL, The Ave Pato will be run at 330 km/h and the velaro at 350 km/h. You must be know that the AVE S103 or Velaro is the fastest comercial train in the world with 404 km/h, the TGV of the record, have nearly 20000Kw of power, the TGV "normal" have more or less 9000Kw of power.
touareg27 4 years ago
Well, have your "AVE" fitted with a 20000KW power engine and try and beat the French...sweetheart the AVE is a fine train, but hundreds of TGV's have been criss-crossing the French countryside for more than 25 years.
levoltaire 4 years ago
Moreover, the last TGV record, in 19191 (515.3km/h) was achieved with an ordinary TGV Atlantique, hundreds of which are in use today. Sorry to disappoint you, Touareg27, but if Spain were at the peak of railway speed, we would know about it.
levoltaire 4 years ago
NO, the First record (515.3) was too with Modificate Tgv.
You can see what is the fastest comercial train, and if you don't know nothing about HS in Spain, is not my problem... and yes, in Marketing your country wins!!
I hope that one day we try to do the same here, with a modificate train.
Bye.
touareg27 4 years ago
Touareg,
I'm not certain my knowlege about HS in Spain is OK (is 270 km/h is enough for you?) but I believe the first high speed train in your country was not build by Siemens or Talgo (and it was in... '92!).
Pascal, committed European
thebaultpascal 4 years ago
*1990 I meant...
levoltaire 4 years ago
Sorry Dude, but the fastest train on rail is french ;o)
Brounoh 4 years ago
Siemens Valero holds the world speed record for unmodified commercial trains which is what counts in the market. All Alstom records had to rely on heavily modified train sets. They nothing more but desperate attempts to have some good PR after Alstom has fallen behind so much technology wise behind the Germans and the Japanese. The company wouldn't be around anylonger if it hadn't been protected by the French government from a takover by Siemens and shortly afterwards from bancruptcy.
h57g9hqx 4 years ago
I feel some good jealousy in your comment!
Don't be mad!
Brounoh 4 years ago
It's disgust actually.
h57g9hqx 4 years ago
siemens velaro train still goes up to 300 km/h in germany for a couple of years. in germany it´s called the ICE 3.
it´s a german train bought by spain and korea as far as i know.
cpunti 4 years ago
However, the ICE does not travel so fast in germany because german railways are very bad. Spanish railways, with many tunnels and bridges, are much better and allow trains to travel faster than in germany. I am sorry, but you have to accept than the german railway system is becoming obsolete.
dani1978el 3 years ago