even Kacem the historian in the bujinkan's pocket said :
"So yes, these “famous” densho, I had the chance to see them and read a few. Now to say that Takamatsu sensei created these schools is hard to say, and to prove… Even Hatsumi sensei says openly that he doesn’t know. "
hatsumi isn't sure if he has a direct transmission, or something hobbled together from prodigious amounts of research and great martial technique.
wanted to include this, it goes before that bit, and puts it in context.
"First of all, the densho and makimono were not written by Hatsumi sensei, these are densho and makimono that were written by Takamatsu sensei. Among the densho that Hatsumi sensei received from Takamatsu sensei we find the writing of Ishitani sensei who was one of Takamatsu sensei’s three masters"
the interview was with kwoon... a google search turns it up.
My lord, people... Does it genealogy or lineage matter? We should believe in people by virtue of their skill, not paperwork.
Personally, I have never heard of this Kawakami guy. Whether he's actually a ninja worth recognition or not should be determined by his skill as a practitioner of his techniques. Claims about position or status are meaningless if he's not good at the art.
In Bujinkan, the disciples of Hatsumi Masaki do not question his position because it's irrelevant. Instead, we believe in his skill as a practitioner or teacher, whether or not he is the rightful heir to the school.
Arguing about lineage and status is childish. Ask yourselves what's really important. Is this guy good at what he does? If so, great. He'll be a good teacher, and his status is irrelevant. If not, then no one will be his student, and his status is irrelevant anyway.
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isnt it funny that the only people who say lineage doesnt matter are the people that are benefitting by selling shit fraudulently?
you seem to be looking at "lineage" the wrong way... we are talking about a record of who passed on the skills, what skills they were, and to whom,
so why does it matter? because otherwise you end up with people like ashida kim and greg park who make up shit and say it was taught by a secret ninja teacher
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so then i guess Brock Lesner can just claim to be a ninja... and since you cant knock him out it must be that he is telling the truth....
ah wait.. that doesnt work... we have names for things for reasons... by using the name of ninjutsu they are attempting to profit from the association with feudal japans spies...
if you want to use the name... you should be able to back up your link to a real ninja,.... oddly nobody can do this anymore...
@Creationsofmyown I'm rather surprised that you're still replying to my post from five months ago. I originally wasn't going to bother to respond, but since you seem so adamant...
Honestly, the mere idea that lineage is important in a martial art is extreme elitism. It's arrogant and pointless. Also, ninja weren't really a cast like the Samurai, where lineage DID matter. Instead, they were more of a side-job that many Samurai undertook. It had nothing to do with lineage. (Continued...)
Although there were some ninja organizations/clans, such as the Koga and Iga, most ninja weren't part of a clan. In fact, nearly all ninja were actually Samurai moonlighting.
As for fraudulence to earn money... That's ironic, because I've never heard of a legitimate Bujinkan dojo that profits from membership fees. Instead, the little sum of money we do pay covers rent on the dojo and supplies.
Also, just out of curiosity. Where is your proof that Takamatsu admits being a "fraud"?
Lastly, shall we just agree to disagree? It's clear I cannot convince you, and there is no hope of you convincing me with your logic. Rather than wasting time arguing through comments on a somewhat unrelated video, shall we just go and live our separate lives?
have you ever heard of the Bugei ryuha daijiten? check their entry for togakure ryu in 1968.
takamatsu's friend watatani kiyoshe shared a personal anecdote telling of takamatsu's admission... wasnt really required tho... his claims are entirely without evidence... atleast as ninjutsu goes...
there is also the FACT that ninjutsu is not, and does not include, martial arts, budo, fighting styles, or combat techniques... but if you ever read a scroll u would know that...
Oh I see what you did there. Creationsofmyown is your troll account, and Arteanor is your real account, or visa-versa. Very clever. Alas, this means our little conversation is over, as YOUR legitimacy just went out the window.
I also find it ironic that your Arteanor account has a favorite video about enlightenment and elitism on it, yet you act like an elitist jerk... =\
Imho, you ought to reconsider your path. Your choice of actions fails your potential intelligence.
close... my little brother likes to leave his youtube/google accounts signed in... not much to be done for it... i forget to check sometimes... and then it autosigned in again, frustrating as hell.
and how would my legitmacy have anything to do with what i have told you?
you SHOULDNT trust me... you shouldnt believe me just cuz i say so....
you should look for the EVIDENCE...
you should re-evaluate your trust in people on faith...
Valid point, though I find trusting people is far more polite than distrusting people without any reason for it.
Also, you're the one going against the more popular belief that Bujinkan is, in fact, legitimate. As such, you're the one with the burden of proof in this debate. Therefore, it isn't my job to look for evidence, when I can simply say I disagree based on experience :P
He said it was rumored to be in the Third Edition.
I'll quote
" It's worth noting, in this context, that in the third edition of the Bugei ryuha daijiten Watatani Kiyoshi stated that Takamatsu (who was, BTW, a personal friend of his) had created his "ninpo" ryuha and teachings from "ninja-gokko" ("childhood ninja games"
So to my knowledge that would be the 1978 edition.
how can lineage not be important? all i want is the name of each successive master the school was passed thru.... that isnt much... how else can we kno that a school has legitimate connection to actual ninjutsu?
im actually impressed u knew that shinobi were simply soldiers (aka samurai, it wasnt always a caste).
ah nice word play, "legitimate bujinkan-dojo" nice oxymoron. ever hear of the honbu in japan? hatsumi turns a tidy profit on his little cult.
Toshitsugu Takamatsu was the last livin ninja masaaki hatsumi has scrolls passed down from Toshitsugu Takamatsu an his family so yes he was dont believe me go to japan or go to the bujinkan site an look for urself..
Several ninja families in Iga, Koga and Ueno decide to give the title of Soke to Kawakami from the family Ban, because his family is in "active" nowadays.
And they give him their makimonos too for bein preserved.
Come off it, a true ninja is anyone who is adept at Ninjutsu. Anyone who has the right state of mind, the right attitude, and a will to learn and adapt can be a ninja. Shinobi will never die out so long as there is ninjutsu
Japanese say the last true ninja was seiko fujita, not takamatsu, so 8dahar1 is correct. Fujitas obituary and the News reports of his death all said he was the last true Ninja.
Hes good at ninjutsu, but I just don't think he can call himself soke of Iga ryu. By the way, hes resally coming to New Jersey? Where at, I'm interested.
There are japanese that would disagree. Simply being japanese does not make them correct. The same goes for news reports. Many of them conflict. They are more to entertain than to inform. Nothing you've listed is proof, I'm afraid.
Well of course, I'm just saying that if you're going to support one side or the other, then something at least a little bit concrete would do much better for you.
sounds like a cop out to me.... btw i got the rights to put up the seminar videos... they await your 1 star votes... and thanks for playing fake ninja boy.
LOL, you still talking garbage , you no dojo having, fake ass, wanna be martial artist. Once again let me remind you that I already exposed you as a liar, so what you do , I really dont give a damn. BTW what seminar are you talking about. Oh and on August 8,9th Duncan is having his annual Cross Training seminar in Hicksville , NY. See if you can make it, I plan to be there.
not talking garbage at all... the videos on my channel show the only garbage is coming out of YOUR dojo.
i never claimed to have a dojo... so it kinda makes it hard for me to be a fake for that.
you havent exposed me as a liar as i havent lied about anything. insisting that you have exposed me when i havent done anything to be exposed for is truly laughable...
are you going to deny your invite to me again? i have a screenshot of this one :P
YAWNNNNNN. Nothing on your channel came from Dojo you joke! Stop lying, I exposed you on your " I know people who study authentic Japanese martial arts" Then it was Oh I read both of Duncans Books ( which he has none). Then it was OH I was told by some one who read Duncans books, until finally you admitted, your source was a dumb ass no body from youtube, NOw do you remember ?! YOUR A LIAR!!! Deny my invite for what! YES EVERYONE IM inviting the no dojo having wanna be to this next seminar
Yes you clearly told me you had read Duncans books. Why must I account for something you read about some other person?? And maybe they conflict because they are 2nd and 3rd hand information instead of from the man himself. Ever think about that? And again I have never seen where Duncan himself said he learned from Draeger. Although Draeger must have known something or how the hell did he write that book about Ninjas and their deadly art? And lastly why do you keep using 2nd hand info as proof?
Ahhh F you and your stupid ass repost of someone elses vid. LOL so you just want drama, typical of troll losers like you. No you lying jackass, you said you read his books, and he doesnt have any books and He didnt write any biography you simpleton. No your info is gossip and internet guys you fake ass wanna be joke!
Ninjutsu is dead, hmmm What research have you done that tells you not one person in Japan or on this planet practices ninjutsu?
And I am not just talking Iga and Koga since there were more areas of Japan that had shinobi.
Also in your quest to bring truth to those that think they are training Ninpo you don't seem to have a war of words with the Bujinkan, wouldn't the McDonald's of the ninjers be the biggest bad guys.
Takamatsu's scrolls are looked at as creations in Japan.
Fujita Seiko was the last disciple of Wada-Ha, it is up to others if they teach in the open to show proof has never been a trait of shinobi, shinobi in other places Tochgi, Ibaragi, edo, Kanagawa, Yamagata, Nigata, Nagano, Toyama, Gifu.
Shinobi being authenticated hmm most be a new thing. Greg park hah ahhaha!
Enough with the emotional stuff, and again I ask what research have you done that says everything ninjutsu is dead, authenticated a spy being authenticated ya that's been going on for ever right.
Sixteenth century daimyo had there own shinobi that recieved a stipend o but wait before that they had to be authenticated ha.
Ninjutsu not a martial art, no practitioners, Sintazaemon was Fujita's grandfather hmm hope he was authenticated or he couldn't teach fujita in there own home! moving on.
So name all shinobi from all different ryu impossable, 1524 the war between mori & Amako what shinobi were used, history doesn't tell us just like it doesn't tell us every samurai used in a battle, common sense. Fujita taught at the Nakano spy school, hmm what were the names of every spy he taught? Iga/koga is it, aaa no.
Watch the video Ninja and Ninjutsu my personal opinion by Houzan Suzuki, japanese perspective on shinobi history ask him a dumb question were there other shinobi outside of Iga and koga.
Ninjutsu outside of Iga and koga, just gave you a battle in my last post.
hmmm wonder where Fuma ryu is from.
My claims I have no claims FACT only people ninja had the prove themselves to is there chunin now if you openly teach the public sure you need to prove your claims like Hatsumi.
Every one can see that I started with a question which was not answered, then we moved on to fujita Seiko and you said every ninja had to register koryu which is stupid if fujita didn't tell other martial artist what he knew people would not know and was his grandfather authenticated by koryu? you asked me if there are other ryu outside of Koga and Iga dumb question everyone knows there are u never asked about practitioners, I used Suzuki sensei because you don't understand the subject.
you also posited an absurd argument that fujita's grandfather must be authenticated.... the koryu board doesnt simply authenticate your abilities... they authenticate your lineage that means showing densho and having it check out with history and genealogies ...
i never said every ninja had to register as koryu. dont misquote me.
if you cant answer my question why are you still posting?
Quote; i never said every ninja had to register as koryu. Quote koryu board has been authenticating any pre meiji art... Sooooo back to my first question how do you know Ninjutsu is dead?
Since you know more then Houzan and me I just wanted to know how you know so much.
Again if they didn't come out in the open people would not know moving on.
Hmmm wonder what Tenshinsho-den Katori Shinto-ryu teaches this is getting boring.
i know because the koryu board has not authenticated any other school than fujita.
are you implying that the ninja are hiding? you are moving the goalpost... the problem with this argument is that there are no ways to win the argument of "hidden ninja".
you are equating this to the debate on the existence of god... cant be proved cant be disproved...
i still refuse to believe that ninja exist currently without evidence. of which you conveniently have none... funny isnt that?
You opened your mouth and did not study my last post there are those that teach ninpo in Japan and for the 100th time if fujita didn't come out in the open people would not know about koka wada ha, Koryu GOSH wrong again! yes they did authenticate a school that teaches ninpo in the higher levels, dude stop talking and wasting peoples time.
Again what research have you done research means going to Japan for study, reference material, your degree Japanese history knowing the language.
Hmm Bipolar, schizophrenic, politician, don't know which word fits you but being wrong on every post and everyone seeing it that way, I have know problem with that, thanks for thinking of something after three weeks.
Hugh so I give everyone the address of a man in Kobe then what, have a bunch of Gijen at his door ready authenticate something that Japanese care nothing about O wait he is supposed to go to the Koryu gods and give them everything he has and be authenticated like shintazaemon.
japanese care nothing for autentication??? thats why the government MADE the koryu board isnt it....
not my fault you dont know the first thing about what you are saying....
if you can counter anything i have said by all means, have at it... but you are unable to answer so simple a question.... if you know what you say you know, it would be easy...
anyways like i said
ur surrender is accepted willingly and without contempt... thanks for playing tho... you put up more fight than most
Quote; i never said every ninja had to register as koryu.
How many of Hatsumi students are Japanese! yup Japanese don't care how many Japanese subscribe to Deans channel? yup they don't care, Houzan put up a vid so dumb westerners would stop asking about ninpo. How do I know this I have family in Himeji and Kobe.
Tenshinsho-den Katori Shinto-ryu you tool, and if anyone wants to learn ninpo they can learn there, also not one person has proved Kawakami to be a liar.
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he also hasnt proved a single claim he makes.
there is no evidence of a link between the kawakami and ban families.
i dont give a fuck where ur family is...
tks is NOT ninjutsu, it claims it, its verifications are in its other schools, none for ninpo... odd isnt it?
many japanese sub to dean, he also has a channel on an asian site like youtube with an almost equal following there.. he has also been written about in a martial arts magazine IN JAPAN,
Quote; he also hasnt proved a single claim he makes. O didn't know you have seen the documents in question? ha NO you havn't! no reasearch again just a big mouth.
TKS teaches ninjutsu and ninpo sorry Wrong again.
Know one new about shintazaemon before fujita told others therefore one can live in this world withought being authenticated, The channel mostly little kids a few japanese, so you saw the article and read it or is it really about a crazy korean guy. Wrong on every point.
We've been accused of unreasonable prejudice against the popular "ninjutsu"-derived arts. Simply put, it is our opinion that modern-day ninjutsu and ninjutsu-derived arts are not koryu bujutsu. They are not based on a continuous transmission of technique and culture.
hmmm and who did the reaserch on fujita in Koryu again? who authenticated him like you said? did Japanese historeans believe his lineage past his grandfather or believe that old grandpa was a ninja?
Historeans did have problems with fujita's claims.
Like Houzan said even the Books from Japan have fiction mixed with truth.
Quote i never said you couldnt live without being authenticated... merely that you cant be taken seriously...
That would have answered my first question, very good wow so easy and again you don't know who is doing what in japan, since you said you are not an expert.
O so now your hard work and reaserch is great then Skoss work ok. WOW
Thought you were no expert, actually if YOU reaserch the site they know a lot more then you think and have japanese sources that help with that reserch at least someone does research.
Sure about fujita! I asked you that question! if you can't answer it end of story you don't start asking question when you don't know the subject we are talking about , what are you 10 years old.
im not saying they dont know their stuff... but that doesnt make them the koryu board of japan.... thats all i said...
i admitted im no expert... you are implying that you are... yet refuse to explain your qualifications.
i asked for your source on the information on fujita... you havent given one...
you should answer a question or 2.... and do stop misquoting me... rather embarassing if you cant argue MY point and have to replace it with one you can attack.
Research in Japan Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai, to me it's same as Koryu. Books I have read. Doronron saigo no ninja, fujita seiko 1959 Fushigina zasshi fujita seiko article Hiden no hon fujita seiko Hojutsu fujita Iga ryu ninjutsu inka no maki concealed fire tech, fujita rikishi graffiti yumio nawa and others watashi wa ninjutsu tsuki, fujita last koga ninja phillip hevener I have a source in Japan he is also on ebay so if people want books on old ninpo they can go there.
Stop going by what some unknown person says or told you somewhere on the internet and go by some reliable facts instead. See this is why guys fail, you keep using sorry claims as your source, Unknown people with user names who no one really knows who the hell they are. These are what your arguments are based on. Come on really!! You cant be taken serious when thats what you use to base your arguments on. Its just weak and sorry and not worthy of a real response. So think what you want.
1st off why the hell do you keep asking me about Duncans business. IM NOT DUNCAN, ASK HIM, Get the info from the man himself. This is once more why your claims are a joke, you keep getting and repeat BS from 2nd hand and 3rd hand sources. Stop asking me and start asking Duncan, what the hell is so hard about that? You havent exposed any BULLSHIT other than your own, you fake ass wanna be martial artist . And your right , good idea why do I keep comment to your bullshit , so Ill stop.
So what you're saying is, you have absolutely no idea what works until you've actually injured someone with it? How, then does one practice before being involved in a real fight? For all anyone knows, it might all fail miserably, according to you.
On the other hand, plenty of people DO consistently practice and attain proficiency prior to being involved in a real fight. How do you explain this?
:-) Jinsuke of course you should attain proficiency before you go to fight but its time consuming and you need to invest patience and efforts thats why choosing the right style can be tricky sometimes and somebody may understand his mistakes in a real fight..that was my point
of course its not proof you dipshit it's youtube. By your logic, you can't believe anything unless you've seen it yourself. And that's just plain stupid.
There are a lot of cues, and to see the whole thing is important. Newspaper articles don't mean much on their own is all I'm saying.
But you're right, one of the few things that will stand as proof on its own is seeing it yourself. Of course, that assumes you can tell the difference in the first place. A lot of people can't even do that.
Ok thanks michaelofflaherty. But, I have one question. I haven't seen him do any actual techniques, just using the tools and weapons to tie the guy up in the same way anyone would, not any special lock or anything. So, does he actually teach techniques? Or just how to use the weapons and tools?
i agree a lot of shinobi familys dont go out there and say HEY EVERYONE IMA NINJA haha they are wiser than that (not saying hatsumi is not wise i am very greatful that through him i could learn ninjutsu) but for other familys its dangerous to brag of theyr secrecy and it is cooler anyways to have a secret like that ha
Yes he is authentic, and Soke Jinichi Kawakami is a direct decendent and heir of the Original Art of Iga-Ruy Ninjutsu. And he does teach new students the Original and almost lost style of Iga-Ryu Ninjutsu. Taylor you will need to travel to Japan to learn Iga-Ryu Ninpo, because there are currently no overseas Iga-Ryu schools outside of Japan at the Banke Shinobinoden Kensyujyo Dojo.
truthfully, i think he is soke of iga and koga ryu. i am not saying that hatsumi is a fraud, i respect him and all and i think he does know 3 ryuha. however, hatsumi cannot really claim to be a ninja being that he didn't learn ninjutsu from his family, he could only say that he is a grandmaster of ninjutsu. kawakami however is from iga, has ninjutsu lineage, and has scrolls to back him up which he does show people his scrolls.
Do any of you even know what your talking about? The Shinobi were farmers, Ronin, and other outcasts and people who trainied in he art of Ninjutsu, and worked for those wo paid the highest, or whoever they felt was fighting for the better cause. I know what I'm talking about to. I don't want an person who gets his facts from Anime to tell me, and 3 year Ninjutsu practitioner whats what.
It also depends on what point in history you are talking about shinobi, in the sixteenth century shinobi were a part of the daimyo's army they were not Koga or Iga, the invasion of korea is also interesting in 1592. Farmers well yes and no my activities would be better concealed being/acting as a farmer then someone in the city and if you were in a group there is more space to train and have a territory to retreat to, and the Iga and Koga areas were perfect for those activities.
Very well put, basically, the shinobi were everywhere, it just the shinobi of Iga and Koga were much more known. However, Ninja did fight for their Daimyo, or whoever they thought was fighting for the better cause, or at some points, whoever paid the most.
Your right, you have different groups some with not so good agendas, when you can't be seen it is like having power some may use that for theft some may use that for intelligence/mercenary work the ruling class at the time saw it as a way to know what is going on throughout the territory so they had there own ninja or paid for it, the western view of ninjutsu is funny the robin hood thing is not even close to reality all samurai were honorable is funny to.
Oh if this is about me snapping? It's not directed at you but that bastard scottbaioisdead and all the other fuckin haters I've had to deal with in the past. I don't know how it got there? I thought I replied it to him directly. Sorry if you thought I said that to you.
And as for ninjas being from samurai lineages, I know some of them were but not all of them. Anyways, they were primarily farmers. The samurai lineages were samurai who learned from the yamabushi monks. And if you still think that Hatsumi is the last ninja I think you had better research more and talk less because you don't know what you're talking about.
I don't know ask all the bullshitkan bastards on this forum that. And if you are one of them then you must really like licking hatsumi's ass like everyone else.
It's obvious this is going nowhere, as you either cannot read or you don't realize that anything over ten koku (Know what a koku is? Sure isn't what your dealer has) higher class merchant pay (Ninja weren't, just to clarify that for ya) or military. Any group of warriors who's members were getting paid the same as some officers were obviously very trained. Hence, military training.
Yamabushi were just that. Yama(mountain)bushi(Martialists of bushido). They trained other yamabushi, not ninja.
Yamazaki ha Tatedo Ryu has nothing to do with the Bujinkan. I have absolutely nothing to say about your grudge against Hatsumi as I hold some JMA grudges as well and will not be a hypocrite. It is your choice what you think of him. I am indifferent, though I still respect anyone who has been in martial arts longer than myself.
Sorry if I snapped and was a inapropriate in my wording. I'm just trying to clear up a lot of "historical" misinformation I have seen floating around over the years.
What do you have against Soke Hatsumi and the Bujinkan, its the only legit Ninjutsu you can get. However, I do agree with you on the fact of Scottbaioisdead.
bujinkan does not suck all the clans are equal they all work hard they all are still around and they all went through the same problems as the other so theres no better or worse ryu stop being so stuborn
All the clans are equal,Bukkake Tsunami Sensei really killed people,Ninjas have disappeared because they got hooked up on Naruto-series and never leave home,I am deadly because I carry ancient farming tools and some sand with me all the time
That's pretty funny. When are these poor farmers going to find the time to drop the fieldwork and study the military teachings involved in ANY martial art to the point of becoming their own respected warrior class? And since when were the yamabushi pumping out samurai or ninja? The yamabushi were sohei who came from pre-existing samurai families. Finally, what were these farmers doing with all of the ninja pay? Burying it? You ralize than shinobi were very highly paid warriors? (40-2000+ koku)
Wow. No wonder that bit died off. Some people are just too dense.
I get my information from historical documents, modern produced martial arts informational books, 12 years of actual martial study (Yamazaki ha Tatedo Ryu currently), research of family history (Kawakami Tsugio is my name), study of Japanese military history, as well as numerous other legitimate sources...Mr. Streetninja. I dare say, many of us are far more legit (and literate, apparently) than street-anything.
Oh I get it now!! So you're saying that ninja were the mercenary next door who happen to live in the iga and koga valleys and also learned military tactics and techniques on their own. And they were also rich. Maybe I should've been a shinobi back in da day. Oh and I wouldn't have to learn my martial arts from the yamabushi monks even if they were samurai. LOL
they're not real, they're modern shuriken made to look old you can get them at goshin. co . jp they're the ones who made them for his little ninja games. but i do own that iga ryu kakurebi no maki his pictures are from at least thats a real document, no tthat he owns the real one
one "ninja master" i dont believe is ashida kim go to the ass-holes site its full of bullshit and i heard if u wanna fight him u gotta pay 30 grand i cant explain that well so just type the dick head in your search engine.
How does one become a Soke or master in 9 different martial arts in only 15 years of training training only on the weekends? It's hard enough being a Soke in just 1 martial art.
street ninja81. hatsumi(i consider you are refering to him)became soke after the last soke TAKAMATSU trained and rewarded him with this right and title... please refer to TAKAMATSU as this will remove any confusion to the right to this title which is recognised by millions of people world..do you study ninjutsu as your name suggests?
Also street ninja... hatsumi is a soke or grand master in aikido other arts rewarded by the grandmasters in each for his knowledge in the realm of budo and taijutsu, this is after he became soke of bujinkan.... credit where credit is due
You should never follow someone blindly. Especially in the Martial Arts realm. There are way too many BS artist out there to never question. ALWAYS question no matter who it is. If they don't like you doing so then leave and they aren't worth your time and money.
Hatsumi is not a ninja because his father was not a ninja. In addition currently Bujinkan does not teach Togakure ryu. Now they teach just samurai ryus.
Wow. Bujinkan does not teach togakure ryu currently,they stopped teaching it in 1990. Hatsumi is the heir of 9 ryu,from these 9,just 3 are ninjas ryu, and they dont teach them. Kawakami comes from a true ninja family and is the manager of iga museum
Even though this soke is unknown to me I expect most true soke are... The posts in the negative for this video should remember Ninjutsu is a living art and not a sport, because the soke show here does not look like a lethal killing machine does not mean he cannot kill. The video is a DEMONSTRATION and not an actual incident. therefore cool down the negatives and enjoy the vid for what it is... dont think too far into it.
knowing how to kick, punch and kill doesnt mean you are part of a legitimate Ninpo Ryu. Fakes: Ashida Kim, Frank Dux, Harunaka Hoshino, ANYTHING called 'Koga Ryu',etc. All a bunch of guys who read a few books and figured they could take money from some folks. LEGIT claims: Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinenkan, Bussey, Toshindo...everything else is bullshido.Kawakami just tryin to make a buck...no legit claim.
"The late Fujita Seiko was the last of the living ninja ... No ninja exist today" Donn Draeger
No serious researcher supports Hatsumi's claims.
seppsters 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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streetninja81 4 months ago
川上さんは英語のコメントチェックしてるのかい？
BuffonSarutobi 11 months ago
The last ninja? Hatsumi have more knowledge in one finger that Kawakami in all her body
alejandrothegod 1 year ago
@alejandrothegod
uh, says fucking who?
even Kacem the historian in the bujinkan's pocket said :
"So yes, these “famous” densho, I had the chance to see them and read a few. Now to say that Takamatsu sensei created these schools is hard to say, and to prove… Even Hatsumi sensei says openly that he doesn’t know. "
hatsumi isn't sure if he has a direct transmission, or something hobbled together from prodigious amounts of research and great martial technique.
Arteanor 11 months ago
@alejandrothegod
wanted to include this, it goes before that bit, and puts it in context.
"First of all, the densho and makimono were not written by Hatsumi sensei, these are densho and makimono that were written by Takamatsu sensei. Among the densho that Hatsumi sensei received from Takamatsu sensei we find the writing of Ishitani sensei who was one of Takamatsu sensei’s three masters"
the interview was with kwoon... a google search turns it up.
Arteanor 11 months ago
um...last ninja of japan....LOL.. riiiight. You obviously have no real clue of real Ninjutsu
Shinobiwonkinobisan 1 year ago
reading books doesnt make one a ninja
Ronin10467 1 year ago
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derrichtigerichter 1 year ago
u are a true ninja, do u teach??? and please dont tell me ur one of masaki hatsumi
scor9977 1 year ago
swastika? 0:40
sarfanco 1 year ago
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Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu
bujinkan12 2 years ago
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nerds
awesomeloftus 2 years ago
LOL
NiNjA8068 1 year ago
My lord, people... Does it genealogy or lineage matter? We should believe in people by virtue of their skill, not paperwork.
Personally, I have never heard of this Kawakami guy. Whether he's actually a ninja worth recognition or not should be determined by his skill as a practitioner of his techniques. Claims about position or status are meaningless if he's not good at the art.
Rawrsification 2 years ago
(continued)
In Bujinkan, the disciples of Hatsumi Masaki do not question his position because it's irrelevant. Instead, we believe in his skill as a practitioner or teacher, whether or not he is the rightful heir to the school.
Arguing about lineage and status is childish. Ask yourselves what's really important. Is this guy good at what he does? If so, great. He'll be a good teacher, and his status is irrelevant. If not, then no one will be his student, and his status is irrelevant anyway.
Rawrsification 2 years ago
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isnt it funny that the only people who say lineage doesnt matter are the people that are benefitting by selling shit fraudulently?
you seem to be looking at "lineage" the wrong way... we are talking about a record of who passed on the skills, what skills they were, and to whom,
so why does it matter? because otherwise you end up with people like ashida kim and greg park who make up shit and say it was taught by a secret ninja teacher
difference is, takamatsu admits the fabrication
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
@Rawrsification
tottaly agree with u man :D
SyouxHM 2 years ago
@SyouxHM Same here.
Ryutobi 1 year ago
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so then i guess Brock Lesner can just claim to be a ninja... and since you cant knock him out it must be that he is telling the truth....
ah wait.. that doesnt work... we have names for things for reasons... by using the name of ninjutsu they are attempting to profit from the association with feudal japans spies...
if you want to use the name... you should be able to back up your link to a real ninja,.... oddly nobody can do this anymore...
weird hmmmm?
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
@Rawrsification
your absolutely right... thats why i have a video of his successor kiyoshe (kawakami is retired) taken at the seminar in NJ in 09.
if you cant tell that the dude is totally full of shit from them, your daft...
and YES lineage is important.. not to being able to fight, but in being able to claim history...
if you dont care about lineage, then dont claim your art to be anything... then nobody will care who taught you it...
Creationsofmyown 1 year ago
@Creationsofmyown I'm rather surprised that you're still replying to my post from five months ago. I originally wasn't going to bother to respond, but since you seem so adamant...
Honestly, the mere idea that lineage is important in a martial art is extreme elitism. It's arrogant and pointless. Also, ninja weren't really a cast like the Samurai, where lineage DID matter. Instead, they were more of a side-job that many Samurai undertook. It had nothing to do with lineage. (Continued...)
Rawrsification 1 year ago
Although there were some ninja organizations/clans, such as the Koga and Iga, most ninja weren't part of a clan. In fact, nearly all ninja were actually Samurai moonlighting.
As for fraudulence to earn money... That's ironic, because I've never heard of a legitimate Bujinkan dojo that profits from membership fees. Instead, the little sum of money we do pay covers rent on the dojo and supplies.
Also, just out of curiosity. Where is your proof that Takamatsu admits being a "fraud"?
Rawrsification 1 year ago
Lastly, shall we just agree to disagree? It's clear I cannot convince you, and there is no hope of you convincing me with your logic. Rather than wasting time arguing through comments on a somewhat unrelated video, shall we just go and live our separate lives?
Rawrsification 1 year ago
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Arteanor 1 year ago
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Arteanor 1 year ago
@Rawrsification
have you ever heard of the Bugei ryuha daijiten? check their entry for togakure ryu in 1968.
takamatsu's friend watatani kiyoshe shared a personal anecdote telling of takamatsu's admission... wasnt really required tho... his claims are entirely without evidence... atleast as ninjutsu goes...
there is also the FACT that ninjutsu is not, and does not include, martial arts, budo, fighting styles, or combat techniques... but if you ever read a scroll u would know that...
Creationsofmyown 1 year ago
@Creationsofmyown
Oh I see what you did there. Creationsofmyown is your troll account, and Arteanor is your real account, or visa-versa. Very clever. Alas, this means our little conversation is over, as YOUR legitimacy just went out the window.
I also find it ironic that your Arteanor account has a favorite video about enlightenment and elitism on it, yet you act like an elitist jerk... =\
Imho, you ought to reconsider your path. Your choice of actions fails your potential intelligence.
Rawrsification 1 year ago
@Rawrsification
close... my little brother likes to leave his youtube/google accounts signed in... not much to be done for it... i forget to check sometimes... and then it autosigned in again, frustrating as hell.
and how would my legitmacy have anything to do with what i have told you?
you SHOULDNT trust me... you shouldnt believe me just cuz i say so....
you should look for the EVIDENCE...
you should re-evaluate your trust in people on faith...
Creationsofmyown 1 year ago
@Creationsofmyown
Valid point, though I find trusting people is far more polite than distrusting people without any reason for it.
Also, you're the one going against the more popular belief that Bujinkan is, in fact, legitimate. As such, you're the one with the burden of proof in this debate. Therefore, it isn't my job to look for evidence, when I can simply say I disagree based on experience :P
Rawrsification 1 year ago
@Rawrsification
uh... not how it works... this isnt a popularity contest.
thing is here... i cant prove anyone doesnt know anything...
nor can you prove that there isnt an invisible flaming rhinoceros behind you...
negatives cant be proven. all that can be said is that there is no evidence for his claims to ninjutsu.
a good test is to substitute the words in question, the argument your using is used by religious people rather frequently...
you could fill out a list of logical fallacies.
Creationsofmyown 1 year ago
Comment removed
Creationsofmyown 1 year ago
@Creationsofmyown
I'm not a fan of Dean's personality or anything.
I don't doubt he makes attacks on people.
But I an open minded to the discussion of Ninjutsu.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
not just the attacks... but the entire list of logical fallacies to boot...
i thought it was funny that despite a 10 minute video he didnt actually prove anything wrong... OR prove his own case with evidence...
just more claims that people have seen the scrolls and thought they were real....
i have never heard of any testing done to authenticate any of them.... hatsumi wont allow it....
Creationsofmyown 1 year ago
@Creationsofmyown
As much as I tend to kinda agree with what you say.
I disagree with this. If you're pointing out the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten.
That was a rumor... And it isn't officially true. Although I have not read it. It was actually rumored to be the third edition.
But the 1968 was proven to not have that written in there by Dean(one of the few owners of the book in the US)
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
ah so you saw his 10 minute strawman of my brother? he proved WHAT?
you should probably go back to the video he replied to and READ what art said to him, i lost a lot of respect for dean that time
1968 is the year given in the article by Dr Friday.... my japanese isnt good enough to tell a doctor of history he is wrong....
dean knows that it IS in the 1963 edition.... AND he knows that the kuden claims part is left in.
he also ignored all my questions on that video...
Creationsofmyown 1 year ago
@Creationsofmyown
I read the article of Karl Friday.
He said it was rumored to be in the Third Edition.
I'll quote
" It's worth noting, in this context, that in the third edition of the Bugei ryuha daijiten Watatani Kiyoshi stated that Takamatsu (who was, BTW, a personal friend of his) had created his "ninpo" ryuha and teachings from "ninja-gokko" ("childhood ninja games"
So to my knowledge that would be the 1978 edition.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku then they changed it later on back to the truth ....you didnt read that didnt you?
Dooshtv 1 year ago
@Rawrsification
how can lineage not be important? all i want is the name of each successive master the school was passed thru.... that isnt much... how else can we kno that a school has legitimate connection to actual ninjutsu?
im actually impressed u knew that shinobi were simply soldiers (aka samurai, it wasnt always a caste).
ah nice word play, "legitimate bujinkan-dojo" nice oxymoron. ever hear of the honbu in japan? hatsumi turns a tidy profit on his little cult.
Creationsofmyown 1 year ago
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lolz hitler shuriken xD
daanliel 2 years ago
Toshitsugu Takamatsu was the last livin ninja masaaki hatsumi has scrolls passed down from Toshitsugu Takamatsu an his family so yes he was dont believe me go to japan or go to the bujinkan site an look for urself..
SadCarnage1224 2 years ago
and hatsumi's claim ( and takamatsu's) still havent been authenticated... the koryu board has declined him 3 times...
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
the only last real ninja was toshigu takamatsu idk who the fuk this is prob another poser >_>...
SadCarnage1224 2 years ago
indeed another poser... vids of his seminar just added to my channel.
i must disagree with your "last ninja" tho... Seiko Fujita was the last authenticated ninja.
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Comment removed
SadCarnage1224 2 years ago
Several ninja families in Iga, Koga and Ueno decide to give the title of Soke to Kawakami from the family Ban, because his family is in "active" nowadays.
And they give him their makimonos too for bein preserved.
ninjadaemon 2 years ago
Info on this video should say: The last asshole of japan. What a fuckin' moron.
psyxex 2 years ago
Come off it, a true ninja is anyone who is adept at Ninjutsu. Anyone who has the right state of mind, the right attitude, and a will to learn and adapt can be a ninja. Shinobi will never die out so long as there is ninjutsu
CharlieStanebayers 2 years ago 2
he is not the last ninja in japan, there is way more like Hatsumi Sensei, Iga Ninjas ect...
chocoloco987 2 years ago
The last true ninja died in the 60's.
8dahar1 2 years ago
The last true ninja was Toshitsugu Takamatsu, and died at the 70's :)
Bethreze 2 years ago
Japanese say the last true ninja was seiko fujita, not takamatsu, so 8dahar1 is correct. Fujitas obituary and the News reports of his death all said he was the last true Ninja.
SuubUrbanNinja 2 years ago
Proof please.
Haku92292 2 years ago
Come to the seminar please and ask kawakami sensei please. May 8-10 2009 in New Jersey. Be there please!!!!
SuubUrbanNinja 2 years ago
Hes good at ninjutsu, but I just don't think he can call himself soke of Iga ryu. By the way, hes resally coming to New Jersey? Where at, I'm interested.
Haku92292 2 years ago
Drew University, Madison New Jersey, May 8th, 9th, and 10th. 2009
SuubUrbanNinja 2 years ago
Thanks, I'll see what I can do.
Haku92292 2 years ago
There are japanese that would disagree. Simply being japanese does not make them correct. The same goes for news reports. Many of them conflict. They are more to entertain than to inform. Nothing you've listed is proof, I'm afraid.
JinsukeHP 2 years ago
Theres always people that disagree. And its not my job to provide proof, its Kawakamis job.
SuubUrbanNinja 2 years ago 2
Well of course, I'm just saying that if you're going to support one side or the other, then something at least a little bit concrete would do much better for you.
JinsukeHP 2 years ago
sounds like a cop out to me.... btw i got the rights to put up the seminar videos... they await your 1 star votes... and thanks for playing fake ninja boy.
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
LOL, you still talking garbage , you no dojo having, fake ass, wanna be martial artist. Once again let me remind you that I already exposed you as a liar, so what you do , I really dont give a damn. BTW what seminar are you talking about. Oh and on August 8,9th Duncan is having his annual Cross Training seminar in Hicksville , NY. See if you can make it, I plan to be there.
SuubUrbanNinja 2 years ago
not talking garbage at all... the videos on my channel show the only garbage is coming out of YOUR dojo.
i never claimed to have a dojo... so it kinda makes it hard for me to be a fake for that.
you havent exposed me as a liar as i havent lied about anything. insisting that you have exposed me when i havent done anything to be exposed for is truly laughable...
are you going to deny your invite to me again? i have a screenshot of this one :P
check my vids if you cant remember the seminar
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
YAWNNNNNN. Nothing on your channel came from Dojo you joke! Stop lying, I exposed you on your " I know people who study authentic Japanese martial arts" Then it was Oh I read both of Duncans Books ( which he has none). Then it was OH I was told by some one who read Duncans books, until finally you admitted, your source was a dumb ass no body from youtube, NOw do you remember ?! YOUR A LIAR!!! Deny my invite for what! YES EVERYONE IM inviting the no dojo having wanna be to this next seminar
SuubUrbanNinja 2 years ago
i never said i read any of duncans books...
i said his biographies...
you still havent accounted for why both of the biographies contradict each other.
duncan claimed to have learned ninpo from Donn Draeger, who doesnt even know ninjutsu.... are you denying this?
and why does professorohms who claims to be a student of yours think that duncan recreated the art from the works of seiko fujita?
why does everyone in your group have a different answer to the same question?
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Yes you clearly told me you had read Duncans books. Why must I account for something you read about some other person?? And maybe they conflict because they are 2nd and 3rd hand information instead of from the man himself. Ever think about that? And again I have never seen where Duncan himself said he learned from Draeger. Although Draeger must have known something or how the hell did he write that book about Ninjas and their deadly art? And lastly why do you keep using 2nd hand info as proof?
SuubUrbanNinja 2 years ago
i clearly asked if YOU had read his books... but i see your story telling ability HAS been taught by duncan, you cant manage to keep it straight.
my information is "the man himself" 's own words in a biography...
falsely labeling my information is a poor excuse to cover the fact you cant answer my questions...
draeger read history books... stuff you seem to be rather ignorant of...
why dont you post a comment on the seminar vids?
i dont need to censor you like you did to me.
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Ahhh F you and your stupid ass repost of someone elses vid. LOL so you just want drama, typical of troll losers like you. No you lying jackass, you said you read his books, and he doesnt have any books and He didnt write any biography you simpleton. No your info is gossip and internet guys you fake ass wanna be joke!
SuubUrbanNinja 2 years ago
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i simply reposted a video that dean was courteous enough to take down when he was asked by the owner of the footage...
my info is your own teachers words... no matter how many times you try to dodge it...
Duncan claims Draeger as a teacher... he is just too lost in his own bullshit to know which way is up anymore...
i dont wannabe something that doesnt exist anymore...
ninjutsu is dead... your going to have to get over it sooner or later
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Ninjutsu is dead, hmmm What research have you done that tells you not one person in Japan or on this planet practices ninjutsu?
And I am not just talking Iga and Koga since there were more areas of Japan that had shinobi.
Also in your quest to bring truth to those that think they are training Ninpo you don't seem to have a war of words with the Bujinkan, wouldn't the McDonald's of the ninjers be the biggest bad guys.
Takamatsu's scrolls are looked at as creations in Japan.
snakeeyes007 2 years ago
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because the last one to be authenticated went on record MANY times saying he was the last....
if you think there are more shinobi provinces then name them....
i agree with your assessment of the bujinkan... and have just as much issue with them...
let an art be its own merit... not the name some fraud slapped onto it...
Duncan, Greg Park, Ashida Kim, Frank Dux.... i take equal issue with all of them...
Seiko Fujita was the last ninja... and nobody can prove otherwise...
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Fujita Seiko was the last disciple of Wada-Ha, it is up to others if they teach in the open to show proof has never been a trait of shinobi, shinobi in other places Tochgi, Ibaragi, edo, Kanagawa, Yamagata, Nigata, Nagano, Toyama, Gifu.
Shinobi being authenticated hmm most be a new thing. Greg park hah ahhaha!
snakeeyes007 2 years ago
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shinobi being authenticated, new? are u high?
i dont buy the "teach in the open" bullshit either...
tell you what... name me one that stands up to your expert skepticism and we shall take a look alright?
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Enough with the emotional stuff, and again I ask what research have you done that says everything ninjutsu is dead, authenticated a spy being authenticated ya that's been going on for ever right.
Sixteenth century daimyo had there own shinobi that recieved a stipend o but wait before that they had to be authenticated ha.
snakeeyes007 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
since the meiji era the koryu board has been authenticating any pre meiji art....
the shinobi have been employed by the government in many time periods for many roles... Fujita even worked with special forces in WW2.
there was no emotional stuff in my post...
and you dodged my question...
i asked you to name a practitioner of ninjutsu that is legitimate, from those provinces or anywhere else...
why is that so hard?
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Ninjutsu not a martial art, no practitioners, Sintazaemon was Fujita's grandfather hmm hope he was authenticated or he couldn't teach fujita in there own home! moving on.
So name all shinobi from all different ryu impossable, 1524 the war between mori & Amako what shinobi were used, history doesn't tell us just like it doesn't tell us every samurai used in a battle, common sense. Fujita taught at the Nakano spy school, hmm what were the names of every spy he taught? Iga/koga is it, aaa no.
snakeeyes007 2 years ago
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try that again with legible english... i have NO clue what your entire first paragraph is trying to convey...
why is it that you can't cite any sources to back up these claims of yours?
ah wait... nevermind... you subscribe to VenomfangX you dont need evidence... you just believe anything you are told....
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Watch the video Ninja and Ninjutsu my personal opinion by Houzan Suzuki, japanese perspective on shinobi history ask him a dumb question were there other shinobi outside of Iga and koga.
Ninjutsu outside of Iga and koga, just gave you a battle in my last post.
hmmm wonder where Fuma ryu is from.
My claims I have no claims FACT only people ninja had the prove themselves to is there chunin now if you openly teach the public sure you need to prove your claims like Hatsumi.
snakeeyes007 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
funny that you are too cowardly to post a comment in reply to mine...
its also funny that you stand behind houzan suzuki a good friend of Dean who is firmly of the opinion that the bujinkan is the last link to ninpo...
i also asked you to name 1 practitioner... something you clearly havent been able to do....
i will ask again... 1 verifiable practitioner.... is that so hard?
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Every one can see that I started with a question which was not answered, then we moved on to fujita Seiko and you said every ninja had to register koryu which is stupid if fujita didn't tell other martial artist what he knew people would not know and was his grandfather authenticated by koryu? you asked me if there are other ryu outside of Koga and Iga dumb question everyone knows there are u never asked about practitioners, I used Suzuki sensei because you don't understand the subject.
snakeeyes007 2 years ago
a question i answered....
you also posited an absurd argument that fujita's grandfather must be authenticated.... the koryu board doesnt simply authenticate your abilities... they authenticate your lineage that means showing densho and having it check out with history and genealogies ...
i never said every ninja had to register as koryu. dont misquote me.
if you cant answer my question why are you still posting?
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Quote; i never said every ninja had to register as koryu. Quote koryu board has been authenticating any pre meiji art... Sooooo back to my first question how do you know Ninjutsu is dead?
Since you know more then Houzan and me I just wanted to know how you know so much.
Again if they didn't come out in the open people would not know moving on.
Hmmm wonder what Tenshinsho-den Katori Shinto-ryu teaches this is getting boring.
snakeeyes007 2 years ago
i know because the koryu board has not authenticated any other school than fujita.
are you implying that the ninja are hiding? you are moving the goalpost... the problem with this argument is that there are no ways to win the argument of "hidden ninja".
you are equating this to the debate on the existence of god... cant be proved cant be disproved...
i still refuse to believe that ninja exist currently without evidence. of which you conveniently have none... funny isnt that?
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
You opened your mouth and did not study my last post there are those that teach ninpo in Japan and for the 100th time if fujita didn't come out in the open people would not know about koka wada ha, Koryu GOSH wrong again! yes they did authenticate a school that teaches ninpo in the higher levels, dude stop talking and wasting peoples time.
Again what research have you done research means going to Japan for study, reference material, your degree Japanese history knowing the language.
snakeeyes007 2 years ago
so you cant name any?
thanks for playing
your surrender is accepted willingly and without contempt.
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Hmm Bipolar, schizophrenic, politician, don't know which word fits you but being wrong on every post and everyone seeing it that way, I have know problem with that, thanks for thinking of something after three weeks.
Hugh so I give everyone the address of a man in Kobe then what, have a bunch of Gijen at his door ready authenticate something that Japanese care nothing about O wait he is supposed to go to the Koryu gods and give them everything he has and be authenticated like shintazaemon.
snakeeyes007 2 years ago
japanese care nothing for autentication??? thats why the government MADE the koryu board isnt it....
not my fault you dont know the first thing about what you are saying....
if you can counter anything i have said by all means, have at it... but you are unable to answer so simple a question.... if you know what you say you know, it would be easy...
anyways like i said
ur surrender is accepted willingly and without contempt... thanks for playing tho... you put up more fight than most
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Quote; i never said every ninja had to register as koryu.
How many of Hatsumi students are Japanese! yup Japanese don't care how many Japanese subscribe to Deans channel? yup they don't care, Houzan put up a vid so dumb westerners would stop asking about ninpo. How do I know this I have family in Himeji and Kobe.
Tenshinsho-den Katori Shinto-ryu you tool, and if anyone wants to learn ninpo they can learn there, also not one person has proved Kawakami to be a liar.
snakeeyes007 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
he also hasnt proved a single claim he makes.
there is no evidence of a link between the kawakami and ban families.
i dont give a fuck where ur family is...
tks is NOT ninjutsu, it claims it, its verifications are in its other schools, none for ninpo... odd isnt it?
many japanese sub to dean, he also has a channel on an asian site like youtube with an almost equal following there.. he has also been written about in a martial arts magazine IN JAPAN,
u havent disproved anything i have said
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Quote; he also hasnt proved a single claim he makes. O didn't know you have seen the documents in question? ha NO you havn't! no reasearch again just a big mouth.
TKS teaches ninjutsu and ninpo sorry Wrong again.
Know one new about shintazaemon before fujita told others therefore one can live in this world withought being authenticated, The channel mostly little kids a few japanese, so you saw the article and read it or is it really about a crazy korean guy. Wrong on every point.
snakeeyes007 2 years ago
suddenly kawakami has documents? odd they havent been provided to the koryu board...
i never said you couldnt live without being authenticated... merely that you cant be taken seriously...
i had the article translated... if yahoo translator isnt good enough for you ... too bad.
you havent pointed out a single point being erroneous...
you have merely implied i havent done the research... your making an burden of proof argument..
kawakami claims ninpo, he should be able to prove it.
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Koryu Qoute; by Diane Skoss
We've been accused of unreasonable prejudice against the popular "ninjutsu"-derived arts. Simply put, it is our opinion that modern-day ninjutsu and ninjutsu-derived arts are not koryu bujutsu. They are not based on a continuous transmission of technique and culture.
hmmm and who did the reaserch on fujita in Koryu again? who authenticated him like you said? did Japanese historeans believe his lineage past his grandfather or believe that old grandpa was a ninja?
snakeeyes007 2 years ago
good of you to quote a NON koryu board source....
as for the verification... fujita's densho was examined... and matches with known genealogies.
dont quote me tho, im not claiming to be an expert.
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Sorry koryu is a good source
Not claiming to be an expert, hmm good.
Historeans did have problems with fujita's claims.
Like Houzan said even the Books from Japan have fiction mixed with truth.
Quote i never said you couldnt live without being authenticated... merely that you cant be taken seriously...
That would have answered my first question, very good wow so easy and again you don't know who is doing what in japan, since you said you are not an expert.
snakeeyes007 2 years ago
koryu(dot)com the work of the skoss' is NOT the koryu board of japan...
you are misrepresenting my position, of course i expect this when you cant possibly win on the point i made...
so then if i am not an expert why can i ask a question that thoroughly stumps you?
what qualifies you as an expert?
you sure about fujita? i would like to see a source for that, cite it plz
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
O so now your hard work and reaserch is great then Skoss work ok. WOW
Thought you were no expert, actually if YOU reaserch the site they know a lot more then you think and have japanese sources that help with that reserch at least someone does research.
Sure about fujita! I asked you that question! if you can't answer it end of story you don't start asking question when you don't know the subject we are talking about , what are you 10 years old.
snakeeyes007 2 years ago
im not saying they dont know their stuff... but that doesnt make them the koryu board of japan.... thats all i said...
i admitted im no expert... you are implying that you are... yet refuse to explain your qualifications.
i asked for your source on the information on fujita... you havent given one...
you should answer a question or 2.... and do stop misquoting me... rather embarassing if you cant argue MY point and have to replace it with one you can attack.
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
snakeeyes007 2 years ago
Stop going by what some unknown person says or told you somewhere on the internet and go by some reliable facts instead. See this is why guys fail, you keep using sorry claims as your source, Unknown people with user names who no one really knows who the hell they are. These are what your arguments are based on. Come on really!! You cant be taken serious when thats what you use to base your arguments on. Its just weak and sorry and not worthy of a real response. So think what you want.
SuubUrbanNinja 2 years ago
thats right... continue to mislabel the information i have come to you with....
i notice you never answer questions... odd that you cant manage any of them....
you cannot account for DUNCAN'S WORDS saying he learned Ninjutsu from Donn Draeger...
if you can.. lets hear it...
if i cant be taken seriously then why do you even bother commenting??
ah right... cuz i repeatedly expose the BULLSHIT that oozes from your mouth.
get a real school... or try to get authenticated by the koryu board
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
1st off why the hell do you keep asking me about Duncans business. IM NOT DUNCAN, ASK HIM, Get the info from the man himself. This is once more why your claims are a joke, you keep getting and repeat BS from 2nd hand and 3rd hand sources. Stop asking me and start asking Duncan, what the hell is so hard about that? You havent exposed any BULLSHIT other than your own, you fake ass wanna be martial artist . And your right , good idea why do I keep comment to your bullshit , so Ill stop.
SuubUrbanNinja 2 years ago
an article that quotes his direct words is now a second hand source? whats a first hand? being inside his head when he says it?
get fucking real kid...
and you still cant answer the ha of koga ryu u study can you?
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
the only "proof" is a real combat situation
Anjinsann 2 years ago
So what you're saying is, you have absolutely no idea what works until you've actually injured someone with it? How, then does one practice before being involved in a real fight? For all anyone knows, it might all fail miserably, according to you.
On the other hand, plenty of people DO consistently practice and attain proficiency prior to being involved in a real fight. How do you explain this?
JinsukeHP 2 years ago
:-) Jinsuke of course you should attain proficiency before you go to fight but its time consuming and you need to invest patience and efforts thats why choosing the right style can be tricky sometimes and somebody may understand his mistakes in a real fight..that was my point
Anjinsann 2 years ago
of course its not proof you dipshit it's youtube. By your logic, you can't believe anything unless you've seen it yourself. And that's just plain stupid.
maduker 2 years ago
There are a lot of cues, and to see the whole thing is important. Newspaper articles don't mean much on their own is all I'm saying.
But you're right, one of the few things that will stand as proof on its own is seeing it yourself. Of course, that assumes you can tell the difference in the first place. A lot of people can't even do that.
JinsukeHP 2 years ago
i don't know much on the subject, but seems there are many last ninjas in japan these days, no?
murasameneku 3 years ago
there is no last ninja,there are families out there with ninjutsu lineage that teach ninjutsu to their family.
conzors 3 years ago 3
Ok thanks michaelofflaherty. But, I have one question. I haven't seen him do any actual techniques, just using the tools and weapons to tie the guy up in the same way anyone would, not any special lock or anything. So, does he actually teach techniques? Or just how to use the weapons and tools?
taylormoorefield 3 years ago
THis guy isnt the last ninja of japan, he is the last ninja you have seen in japan though. most other ninjas dont want to be seen.
Yoginator0011 3 years ago 3
i agree a lot of shinobi familys dont go out there and say HEY EVERYONE IMA NINJA haha they are wiser than that (not saying hatsumi is not wise i am very greatful that through him i could learn ninjutsu) but for other familys its dangerous to brag of theyr secrecy and it is cooler anyways to have a secret like that ha
motocrosser 2 years ago
Yes he is authentic, and Soke Jinichi Kawakami is a direct decendent and heir of the Original Art of Iga-Ruy Ninjutsu. And he does teach new students the Original and almost lost style of Iga-Ryu Ninjutsu. Taylor you will need to travel to Japan to learn Iga-Ryu Ninpo, because there are currently no overseas Iga-Ryu schools outside of Japan at the Banke Shinobinoden Kensyujyo Dojo.
michaeloflaherty 3 years ago
I train in the Bujinkan. I actually haven't heard of this guy before. Is he authentic? Does he still accept new students?
taylormoorefield 3 years ago
truthfully, i think he is soke of iga and koga ryu. i am not saying that hatsumi is a fraud, i respect him and all and i think he does know 3 ryuha. however, hatsumi cannot really claim to be a ninja being that he didn't learn ninjutsu from his family, he could only say that he is a grandmaster of ninjutsu. kawakami however is from iga, has ninjutsu lineage, and has scrolls to back him up which he does show people his scrolls.
OkamiNinja7 3 years ago
Do any of you even know what your talking about? The Shinobi were farmers, Ronin, and other outcasts and people who trainied in he art of Ninjutsu, and worked for those wo paid the highest, or whoever they felt was fighting for the better cause. I know what I'm talking about to. I don't want an person who gets his facts from Anime to tell me, and 3 year Ninjutsu practitioner whats what.
Haku92292 3 years ago
It also depends on what point in history you are talking about shinobi, in the sixteenth century shinobi were a part of the daimyo's army they were not Koga or Iga, the invasion of korea is also interesting in 1592. Farmers well yes and no my activities would be better concealed being/acting as a farmer then someone in the city and if you were in a group there is more space to train and have a territory to retreat to, and the Iga and Koga areas were perfect for those activities.
snakeeyes007 3 years ago 2
Very well put, basically, the shinobi were everywhere, it just the shinobi of Iga and Koga were much more known. However, Ninja did fight for their Daimyo, or whoever they thought was fighting for the better cause, or at some points, whoever paid the most.
Haku92292 3 years ago
Your right, you have different groups some with not so good agendas, when you can't be seen it is like having power some may use that for theft some may use that for intelligence/mercenary work the ruling class at the time saw it as a way to know what is going on throughout the territory so they had there own ninja or paid for it, the western view of ninjutsu is funny the robin hood thing is not even close to reality all samurai were honorable is funny to.
snakeeyes007 3 years ago 2
Oh if this is about me snapping? It's not directed at you but that bastard scottbaioisdead and all the other fuckin haters I've had to deal with in the past. I don't know how it got there? I thought I replied it to him directly. Sorry if you thought I said that to you.
streetninja81 3 years ago
lol is that the Iron Chef guy?
TheOneViking 3 years ago 2
Someone saying Koga-ryu is a pretty good indication there's some BS-ing going on. I've seen no Kihon Happo techniques here.
BigDaddyLiberty 3 years ago
And as for ninjas being from samurai lineages, I know some of them were but not all of them. Anyways, they were primarily farmers. The samurai lineages were samurai who learned from the yamabushi monks. And if you still think that Hatsumi is the last ninja I think you had better research more and talk less because you don't know what you're talking about.
streetninja81 3 years ago 3
so what does all the bullshit you swallow taste like?
scottbaioisdead 3 years ago 3
hahahhahaah nice one
CloudKr 3 years ago 2
I don't know ask all the bullshitkan bastards on this forum that. And if you are one of them then you must really like licking hatsumi's ass like everyone else.
streetninja81 3 years ago
It's obvious this is going nowhere, as you either cannot read or you don't realize that anything over ten koku (Know what a koku is? Sure isn't what your dealer has) higher class merchant pay (Ninja weren't, just to clarify that for ya) or military. Any group of warriors who's members were getting paid the same as some officers were obviously very trained. Hence, military training.
Yamabushi were just that. Yama(mountain)bushi(Martialists of bushido). They trained other yamabushi, not ninja.
Hyoujinsama 3 years ago
Yamazaki ha Tatedo Ryu has nothing to do with the Bujinkan. I have absolutely nothing to say about your grudge against Hatsumi as I hold some JMA grudges as well and will not be a hypocrite. It is your choice what you think of him. I am indifferent, though I still respect anyone who has been in martial arts longer than myself.
Sorry if I snapped and was a inapropriate in my wording. I'm just trying to clear up a lot of "historical" misinformation I have seen floating around over the years.
Hyoujinsama 3 years ago 2
Cool.
streetninja81 3 years ago
What do you have against Soke Hatsumi and the Bujinkan, its the only legit Ninjutsu you can get. However, I do agree with you on the fact of Scottbaioisdead.
Haku92292 3 years ago
haku, how can u say bujinkan is the only legit ninjutsu you can get when the jinenkan and genbukan exist?
ninjiujitsu1 3 years ago
bujinkan sucks!!
AdriPosse69 3 years ago
bujinkan does not suck all the clans are equal they all work hard they all are still around and they all went through the same problems as the other so theres no better or worse ryu stop being so stuborn
motocrosser 2 years ago
Bujinkan is not a clan, it's an organization of martial arts that are connected with eachother.
OkamiNinja7 2 years ago
Togakure Ryu is the best one out of the bunch
MrHairyNutz 2 years ago
All the clans are equal,Bukkake Tsunami Sensei really killed people,Ninjas have disappeared because they got hooked up on Naruto-series and never leave home,I am deadly because I carry ancient farming tools and some sand with me all the time
Thisismynameffs 2 years ago
That's pretty funny. When are these poor farmers going to find the time to drop the fieldwork and study the military teachings involved in ANY martial art to the point of becoming their own respected warrior class? And since when were the yamabushi pumping out samurai or ninja? The yamabushi were sohei who came from pre-existing samurai families. Finally, what were these farmers doing with all of the ninja pay? Burying it? You ralize than shinobi were very highly paid warriors? (40-2000+ koku)
Hyoujinsama 3 years ago
You're funny you talk like you know alot of shit. What RPG did you get your info from? Or was it from a cracker jack box?
streetninja81 3 years ago
Wow. No wonder that bit died off. Some people are just too dense.
I get my information from historical documents, modern produced martial arts informational books, 12 years of actual martial study (Yamazaki ha Tatedo Ryu currently), research of family history (Kawakami Tsugio is my name), study of Japanese military history, as well as numerous other legitimate sources...Mr. Streetninja. I dare say, many of us are far more legit (and literate, apparently) than street-anything.
Try research.
Hyoujinsama 3 years ago
Oh I get it now!! So you're saying that ninja were the mercenary next door who happen to live in the iga and koga valleys and also learned military tactics and techniques on their own. And they were also rich. Maybe I should've been a shinobi back in da day. Oh and I wouldn't have to learn my martial arts from the yamabushi monks even if they were samurai. LOL
streetninja81 3 years ago
dude you should disable comments here, there are some ignorent people here
conzors 4 years ago
Can someone tell me why this guy is in Dr. Hatsumi book the grandmaster's book of ninja training? it looks like he was a student.
snakeeyes007 4 years ago
We was more in luckly Train by Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi who's my Hero.
Turtlepimp8000 4 years ago
awesome shuriken...nice...
ShadowWarrior88 4 years ago
they're not real, they're modern shuriken made to look old you can get them at goshin. co . jp they're the ones who made them for his little ninja games. but i do own that iga ryu kakurebi no maki his pictures are from at least thats a real document, no tthat he owns the real one
scottbaioisdead 4 years ago 2
i wish this was in english XD
NightFox52 4 years ago 2
do you think jinichi kawakami takes western students?
conzors 4 years ago
no,he does not take western students, just the people who go with Juan Hombre sensei
kiketet 4 years ago
whos juan hombre?
conzors 4 years ago
a bullshitter
scottbaioisdead 3 years ago
one "ninja master" i dont believe is ashida kim go to the ass-holes site its full of bullshit and i heard if u wanna fight him u gotta pay 30 grand i cant explain that well so just type the dick head in your search engine.
conzors 4 years ago
hey weres the whole video to this and wats it called?and another thing, is this guy still alive? cuz i wanna ask him something
conzors 4 years ago
How does one become a Soke or master in 9 different martial arts in only 15 years of training training only on the weekends? It's hard enough being a Soke in just 1 martial art.
streetninja81 4 years ago
street ninja81. hatsumi(i consider you are refering to him)became soke after the last soke TAKAMATSU trained and rewarded him with this right and title... please refer to TAKAMATSU as this will remove any confusion to the right to this title which is recognised by millions of people world..do you study ninjutsu as your name suggests?
pandorasox 4 years ago
Also street ninja... hatsumi is a soke or grand master in aikido other arts rewarded by the grandmasters in each for his knowledge in the realm of budo and taijutsu, this is after he became soke of bujinkan.... credit where credit is due
pandorasox 4 years ago
It's done by trusting the teacher and do what you are told to do without question.
PMACoralSprings 4 years ago
You should never follow someone blindly. Especially in the Martial Arts realm. There are way too many BS artist out there to never question. ALWAYS question no matter who it is. If they don't like you doing so then leave and they aren't worth your time and money.
Lordasia 4 years ago
Check out videos of Soke Masaaki Hatsumi for a true Ninja Grandmaster
PMACoralSprings 4 years ago
Hatsumi is not a ninja because his father was not a ninja. In addition currently Bujinkan does not teach Togakure ryu. Now they teach just samurai ryus.
kiketet 4 years ago
What BULLSHIT are you talking about? The Bujinkan DOES teach Togakure Ryu, This fake jinichi guy is NO ninja. Learn your history moron.
PMACoralSprings 4 years ago 2
Wow. Bujinkan does not teach togakure ryu currently,they stopped teaching it in 1990. Hatsumi is the heir of 9 ryu,from these 9,just 3 are ninjas ryu, and they dont teach them. Kawakami comes from a true ninja family and is the manager of iga museum
kiketet 4 years ago
Whatever you say buddy. I have no desire to waste anytime on debating the facts of the matter with you, just not worth my time. Have a good life!
PMACoralSprings 4 years ago 2
hey you think you can forward me to the site were you found the whole vid please.
conzors 4 years ago
Comment removed
derrichtigerichter 1 year ago
Since your a Spaniard go to Pedro Fleitas and ask him what a ninja is.
PMACoralSprings 4 years ago 2
Just to let YOU know the 2008 training theme for the Bujinkan Dojo IS Togakure Ryu Ninpo!
ninjasociety 4 years ago 2
Im Bujinkan and Togakure Ryu is very much at the heart of Bujinkan...sometimes its better to be quiet.
qeslah 3 years ago
U ARE COMPLETLY RIGHT JEJE IM 100 WITH U
masterofdisguiseable 2 years ago
Even though this soke is unknown to me I expect most true soke are... The posts in the negative for this video should remember Ninjutsu is a living art and not a sport, because the soke show here does not look like a lethal killing machine does not mean he cannot kill. The video is a DEMONSTRATION and not an actual incident. therefore cool down the negatives and enjoy the vid for what it is... dont think too far into it.
pandorasox 4 years ago
knowing how to kick, punch and kill doesnt mean you are part of a legitimate Ninpo Ryu. Fakes: Ashida Kim, Frank Dux, Harunaka Hoshino, ANYTHING called 'Koga Ryu',etc. All a bunch of guys who read a few books and figured they could take money from some folks. LEGIT claims: Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinenkan, Bussey, Toshindo...everything else is bullshido.Kawakami just tryin to make a buck...no legit claim.
qeslah 3 years ago
well i wouldnt say toshindo..
CloudKr 3 years ago