Michelle Kwan 1997 Worlds LP (high quality)

[gonzo77ffm]

why underappreciated?

she won the free program with this and almost gathered the gold!

The judges did not wanted to give her the gold, irina was way better than tara, so michelle could have won!

for me it's her second best program after 1996!!

my problemin those years was that there always got second the one i saw as winner

1995 bonaly

1996 Lu chen

1997+1998 kwan

[jarwillnc]

I too find this performance under appreciated. The choreography in my opinion was superior not to mention Kwan's overall mesmerizing presence on the ice. Personally I think had the current judging system been in place we would have seen a different outcome. That wasn't the case so Michelle couldn't place any higher than second because of her short program results.

[idolfan9495]

She won the long program here. Actually, in terms of individual programs, Tara only beat Michelle three times-- 1997 Nationals LP, 1997 SP and 1998 Olympics LP. The USFSA had a solo Hall of Fame induction for Tara just like they are doing for Michelle. Oh wait, they didn't. This is not to say that Tara was not a very good technical skater and competitor. But

she is just not in the same league as Michelle. No one is.

[allenglandlawns]

@idolfan9495 Don't forget the 96-97 Champions Series Final short and long!

[getrealandsee]

@idolfan9495 Tara beat the sequins off Michelle when it counted...she set records and transformed the sport...as far as the solo Hall of Fame induction....well, Tara is an Olympic Gold Medalist and Kwan isn't....no, Tara is way way out of Michelle's league...she's head and shoulders above the lol...oh, and the solo HOF....Michelle is 30 and hung on forever and ever...so who else was there to be inducted...it was a geriatric moment in figure skating.

[Karosanyo]

@getrealandsee You're so catty and nasty. You sound so bitter and full of hate.

[getrealandsee]

@Karosanyo Actually, I am none of the above:)

[Karosanyo]

@getrealandsee You ARE that way when it comes to Michelle Kwan!

[getrealandsee]

@Karosanyo :)-:)

[Karosanyo]

@getrealandsee You are very hateful when it comes to Michelle Kwan...

[getrealandsee]

@Karosanyo Nope..just totally real:)-:) She is not worth hating.

[Karosanyo]

@getrealandsee You keep telling yourself that...

[getrealandsee]

Silver....what a flippin' joke...handed yet another undeserved medal and laps up all the praise for a great comeback....you want to see real athletes, real champions, real comebacks.....Rudy Gallindo, Irina Slutskaya, a wonderful German skater whose first name is Tonya and her last name starts with S...there are many inspiring courageous skaters out there who are true CREDITS to the sport....Kwan is NOT even remotely close to them...she's not even worthy to breathe the same air as they!!!

[mlc2005]

@getrealandsee: It'sssssssssssssssssssssssssss­sss Back :( Sighhhhh. Btw, the people you named all consider Kwan a legend and an inspiration.... so fuck off, frankly. Obviously our begging that getreal get real help for it's mental health/ocd issue have gone unheaded. A real shame.

So keep the pathetic obsession about a skater you hate coming getreal. We love them.

[TeamKween2010]

@getrealandsee You mean Tanja, (not Tonya by the way) Szewczenko? And you are now claiming that Michelle did not deserve the silver medal here? What event are you watching? Tara skated all segments and ran away with the gold here. Vanessa, who was second after the short had several mistakes as did Butryskaya, who was third after the short. That gave the Michelle (and Irina) a chance at medaling. Irina moved up to fourth and Michelle skated away with the silver. Fair judging in my book. :)

[mru06]

I love this performance. Perfectly executed with more intensity that I think she had ever skated with up to this point. I'm sorry to everyone that I had to add such a negative comment below but I've had it with this allenglandlawns person.

[formersk8ter]

Tara deserved this win.

[formersk8ter]

@Karosanyo How were Tara's jumps too small? She got plenty of height on her toe-loop and salchow especially. More height for someone her size would have been weird. And it's not as if Michelle had particularly "big" jumps, either. Michelle was marked fairly in this competition.

[Karosanyo]

@formersk8ter My scores: Michelle 5.8/5.9 ,Tara 5.7/5.6 , Irina 5.8/5.6.

[allenglandlawns]

@Karosanyo Sheesh and you've been giving Irina 5.0s at next year's worlds...but you must squeeze Irina in between Kwan and Tara so that SHOCKER...Kwan gets the title by default. Tara blew everyone out of the water at these worlds with, by far, the most difficult programs... Irina was great too...landing a 3salchow-3loop. They both earn their marks but even they are still shafted to make way for the Kween to be handed another title for her collection.

[Karosanyo]

@allenglandlawns I would be giving Irina 5.0s at the next Worlds? More ignorant assumptions... You feel that Kwan was "handed" this well EARNED silver??? Six clean triples with a 3/3, GREAT and highly innovative choreography,  great spirals and good spins. Kwan's jumps WERE better than Tara's here (Tara had seven triples and a more difficult 3/3, but Kwan's jumps were higher and stronger). Kwan's choreography, spirals, spins, lines and edging were superior to Irina and Tara.

[Karosanyo]

@allenglandlawns I also find it very funny that you stated that Sasha "earned" a SILVER at the Olympics for only landing THREE clean triples (two BAD falls and she two footed her other two in her sequence). You're UNABLE to be objective and truly honest with your posts about Kwan.... Michelle Kwan WAS superior to Irina and Sasha (she was also superior to Tara and Sarah).

[allenglandlawns]

@Karosanyo And Sasha absolutely EARNED that silver. Points added up through COP...given ZERO pity points, paid for her mistakes and didn't assume anything... unlike Kwan who assumed 6s for showing up...the Kween messed up so badly, judges gave her Sasha's other Olympic medal. Sasha didn't even need to turn on the waterworks on the Torino podium and exos. Just happy to stand up there and represent her country.

[Karosanyo]

@allenglandlawns BS! There is no way in hell that Sasha "earned" any medal at the 2006 Olympics! She fell BADLY twice, two footed 2 other jumps, and the ones that she did land were shaky. Her program was nowhere near as great or innovative as Kwan's Taj. Sasha skated the same elegant sap. She took zero risks with her artistry. I also think that her "great" spiral in the LP was shaky and really slow. Sasha WAS propped with that stupid COP...

[Karosanyo]

@allenglandlawns LMAO! Sasha paid for her mistakes? When did Sasha even give a clean 6 triple performance at Worlds or the Olympics? She was always falling and tripping all over the place. Sasha NEVER gave a performance better than this performance above (Kwan's very good 2002 Worlds silver performance as well). Sasha was a beautiful skater (her 2004 Malaguena is one of my all time favorites), but she could never skate a clean LP at the majors. I really wanted her to win in '06.

[Karosanyo]

@allenglandlawns Waterworks? People handle their emotions differently.... How do YOU really know what Kwan "assumed"? That's an ignorant assumption by YOU. Kwan didn't mess up as badly at the 2002 Olympics as Sasha did in the 2006 Olympic LP. Kwan landed 5 clean triples with one fall compared to Sasha's 3 with two falls. Kwan deserved to win the the SP and her bronze (you and I have been over that topic). Anyone who feels that Sasha's '06 Olympic LP is better than Kwan's '97 World LP is blind.

[allenglandlawns]

@Karosanyo Assumed? It was all over her face. Nose crinkling, thumbs down, cutesy little boo even gifted buckets of 5.9s. Only flashes that crooked smile when she's handed 1st. As if she were trying to say..."I am Kwan the KWEEN. I AM ENTITLED"...much like the way she thought she deserved to crap on Emily when she choked the OGM twice and sat diddly squat all season. And when things don't go her way, she turns into a water hose...and the poor dear gets a standing ovation for choking. Pathetic!

[Karosanyo]

@allenglandlawns Your playlist is Michelle Kwan??? It was all over her face? Again, that's an ignorant assumption. I FEEL that Kwan was upset with herself that she didn't skate her best in the LP and win. She knew that she had to skate her best to win (she skated a 7 triple performance at the '98 Olympics and still lost because she didn't skate her best and wasn't like at Nationals). "Crooked smile"? That's truly low and juvenile...

[allenglandlawns]

@Karosanyo Nope, hardly ignorant. Did you not see the shaking head and cutesy boo in SLC? Thumbs down and pouting more than once. Oh she ain't thrilled with her marks AT ALL. And if she knew she had to skate her best to win, she would have reworked her programs and upped the ante like Tara and Sarah did and come up with new programs and had a coach in SLC. Simply no respect for the sport. To her, the Olympics was the "Michelle Kwan Show" and just waiting to be handed the Gold.

[Karosanyo]

@allenglandlawns It IS ignorant. What's your point? Irina wasn't thrilled with her marks AT ALL at the 2000 and 2001 Worlds when she stormed off and cried (Kwan WAS the clear winner in the LPs). Kwan is a human being and she's far from perfect. You act like you know every little move that this woman does (you have a VERY warped perception of Kwan). You analyze every little expression and comment from her and turn it into a negative... Kwan at her best IS a better skater than Tara and Sarah.

[Karosanyo]

@allenglandlawns When did Tara "rework" her program??? She had the same long programs for three years. There WAS a drastic change from Taj to Lyra. Kwan's LP was actually more difficult (only Tara's two triple-triple combo jumps were more difficult). Kwan would have won the LP if she skated like she did at the Nationals. Sarah only won by default. She better thank God that Michelle and Irina didn't skater like they did at that year's Worlds...

[allenglandlawns]

@Karosanyo Oooh wiggle jiggle to a different soundtrack. So so so difficult. Must tire the Kween of 6 to flap her arms so much. Tara and Sarah took the necessary steps required to become a true champion. ALWAYS upping the technicals...skating ain't a beauty pageant. It's a sport much like gymnastics and swimming. As for Sarah winning by default, fluke or not, I will thank God that the judges decided to play fair at the one event that matters. Sarah Hughes: Olympic CHAMPION! Doesn't get better!

[Karosanyo]

@allenglandlawns You and I both know that Taj and Lyra were different. Tara did the same LP over and over. YOU even stated that Kwan's programs were superior and that she had better elements (back when you were mature). A 7 triple Kwan at her best is superior to Tara and Sarah's best. The judges were always fair with Kwan at the majors. She deserved her World titles and Olympic silver and bronze. Kwan was NEVER propped up at those events like Oksana, Witt and Sasha.

[allenglandlawns]

@Karosanyo You're right Kwan was never propped up like those other skaters. It was RIDICULOUSLY WAY MORE propping than any other skater in history. So much that it gave a whole new meaning to the words 'entitlement' and 'favoritism'. Scream all you want about "Kwan's best" she doesn't have an Olympic Gold Medal to prove it. 2 chances and she FAILED big time.

[Karosanyo]

@allenglandlawns Some more dishonest and lame comments from you. Any other skater in history? You don't think that Kwan earned ANY of her World, National, and Olympic medals? That's truly ludicrous and crazy. There are MANY great skaters that didn't win the OGM that comes every four years... Michelle Kwan WILL always be known as a better skater than Tara and Sarah (OGM or not). Your posts are silly.

[mru06]

@allenglandlawns

I watch all of Michelle's programs and you're always commenting on them saying the same hateful, off base statements. If you don't like Kwan's skating and think she is a bad person, that's fine, but to deny her talent and try to tarnish her well deserved titles is completely ridiculous. You are pathetic and need to get a life! Grow up and quit watching and commenting on Michelle's videos! You seriously have a lot of bitterness in your wicked little heart you freaking demon!

[TeamKween2010]

@allenglandlawns Winning a gold medal does not define ones life. Just as not being valedictorian in high school didn't define me. Your constant bickering about how the judges "favourited" or "enlightend" Michelle make no sense. Had the judges wanted to place Michelle first, they would have. But they didn't. I call that fair judging. Your only "legitimate" argument has now been refuted. :)

[Karosanyo]

@allenglandlawns Oh, and the Brits sum up Kwan's skating compared to Tara's at 3:18...

[Dylvente]

The commentator really nailed it with this: "She's only two years older than Lipinski, but the difference in grace and elegance is clearly marked." He might have added "maturity". That difference held for the next year's Olympics, too. She just didn't have the same repetoire of difficult jump combinations.

[rickram1961]

100% Perfection. One of my very favorite programs. I loved watching the 97 World Championships.

[TheWhatsinaname]

Can someone remind me of the history of this, I think I remembe correctly, but am not quite sure, wasn't this the last time until the 2000 Worlds that Michelle was able to land two triple-triple combinations in a long program?

[idolfan9495]

@TheWhatsinaname I don't think she ever landed two 3-3s in a long program. She didn't here. The only 3-3 Michelle ever did in competition was the 3toe-3toe, and it is against the rules to repeat a jump.

[debbwin]

@idolfan9495 It's not against the rules to repeat a jump...thus Michelle's many many many 2-triple lutz performances. You have to do one in combo tho. Thus the 3toe-3toe is completely legal.

[idolfan9495]

@debbwin Yes, I know that. But the point I was trying to make was that Michelle wouldn't have been allowed to do the 3T-3T twice. I was responding to a poster who thought Michelle did two 3-3s in this and other programs. Since Michelle only did the 3T-3T (in competitions, at least), she never did the combo twice, because it would have been against the rules.

[debbwin]

@idolfan9495 Oh, I'm sorry. I get it. You are totally correct. I heard she practiced other combos, but not in competition. I still love this 1997 Worlds LP.

[MsSFRLY]

This music is from Fikret Amirov's symphonic piece "Gulustan Bayati-Shiraz"

[nancymckeon]

This program is, as Peggy Flemming would say, breathtaking. It is so well done that I am speechless that she was not 1997 World Champion. What kind of lame ass judging system were they using?

[TheWhatsinaname]

@nancymckeon It wasn't because of bad judging, actually the judging was quite fair at the 1997 Worlds and Michelle has even admitted such. (She was actually ahead in the long program and actually won that portion of the championships -- she had five 1st place ordinals to I do believe Tara's two -- France's Vanessa Gusmeroli if I remember correctly who won the Bronze had one; the problem was Michelle took herself out,

[TheWhatsinaname]

@TheWhatsinaname unfortunately, of winning this World championship mainly because of how bad she did in the short program ending up in 4th place (at least Michelle did a whole lot better than the other two World medalist from 1996, Chen Lu of China or Irina Slutskaya of Russia at this Worlds). I also have never liked her short program from the 1996 - 97 season, Dream of Desdimona -- I always rated it her worse short program &

[TheWhatsinaname]

@TheWhatsinaname I wonder if Michelle ever felt the same -- since everytime I watched DOD it always came across as though she was trying to get through the program and not actually enjoying as she did other shorts such as the one she had in 1995 - 96, or 1997 - 98, or 1999 - 2000, or 2000 - 01, or 2002 - 03. At least with Taj Mahal LP she showed a lot more emotion and emotional connection with the audience and judges.

[TheWhatsinaname]

@TheWhatsinaname I stand corrected, it would have been Michelle with six 1st place ordinals, Tara with two and I do still believe Gusmeroli had one.

[kwadruple]

@TheWhatsinaname Gusmeroli did not get any first place ordinals. Lipinski, Kwan, and Slutskaya all had tremendous free skates and the ordinals for the three of them were all over the place. Kwan ended up winning the long program by having the most 2nd place ordinals.

[lutz84]

@kwadruple you are absolutely correct

3 first place orders each for lipinski kwan and slutskaya

[nancymckeon]

This program is, as Peggy Flemming would say, breathtaking. It is so well done that I am speechless that she was not 1997 World Champion. What kind of lame ass judging system were they using?

[Chutson353]

who are these commentators - I'm American but I have gotten to where I save the UK videos because I like their commentary

[mlc2005]

As a Kwan fanatic, I have to give Tara some props here. No she was not on Kwan's level artistically (no one was, or, unfortunately, probably ever will), but she had excellent jumps, smoothness, joy, and the second best spirals of the night. IMO, the artistic quality of this worlds was ranked: Kwan (head and shoulders above everyone else, Maria, Irina/Vanessa/Tara on par with each other). I'm okay with the results.

[beckerbombs]

The thing is though I dont think Tara had even the best technical performance of the night. Irina did a triple-triple almost as hard as Tara's (Triple sal-triple loop vs triple loop-triple loop), had much higher and more explosive jumps, stronger spins, and better footwork. Tara's only technical edge was a 2nd triple lutz also giving her a 7th triple. Tara should have been only 3rd in the long behind both Michelle and Irina and would have had no way to win overall then.

[lexlib]

had tara placed 3rd in the long behind michelle and irina, michelle would repeat as world champion.

[beckerbombs]

On top of that Tara should not have been 1st in the short. 1st in the short should have been Vanessa. She was superior to Tara both technically and artistically in the short. She did the same combo as Tara the triple lutz-double loop but with a much purer lutz edge and more height. Her double axel was way better and her spins were a bit better too. Tara had better footwork and a harder solo jump but Vanessa had a better choreographed program with more maturity and expression.

[koolaidnhemlock]

yea okay like vanessa gusmeroli is somebody

[lexlib]

this was a COP ready program when COP wasn't even a pipe dream.

[Chutson353]

I think Kwan and Janet Lynn are the only two skaters that EVERYONE agrees are absolutely flawless - even when they make mistakes - I would probably add Tenley Albright to that but she goes so far back that people don't think about her but she was awfully darn good.

[katydid41]

Yes, vav those names but go back and check Peggy Fleming's long program in 1968. That softness (and grace) on the surface of the ice is still unmatched except for maybe G&G and Kim Yu-na now. The Austrians (where that event was held) nicknamed Peggy "snowflake" because she landed so softly on the ice and because they considered her unique in her artistry. She was way ahead of her contemporaries (except Lynn) vav artistry. People nowadays don't seem to know Peggy's contributions.

[Chutson353]

@katydid41 Well Peggy certainly moved the sport forward artistically - I think it you watch Albright you see the same grace - but Peggy really took Henie's lead and moved the "dancing" elements of the sport forward.

[mlc2005]

I love this program too, although I wouldn't say she went down from here choreographically. I felt 2001 and 2003 were particularly stunning. I was surprised that they chose a theme so similar to Salome, honestly, but regardless, Kwan is incredible.

[beckerbombs]

She definitely deserved 1st in this program. I actually felt Irina should have placed 2nd over Tara in the LP which would have given Kwan the title overall (actually would have moved Irina up from 6th to the bronze overall too). One of the few times I ever felt Irina was placed lower than should have in a program ever, LOL! I scored it:

Kwan- 5.8 technical, 5.9 or 6.0 artistic

Irina- 5.9 technical, 5.8 artistic

Tara- 5.8 technical, 5.7 artistic

[Karolina917]

@beckerbombs actually she won free skate, but she was 4th after SP so she couldn't win :)

[beckerbombs]

Yeah I know she did and deservedly so. It is too bad Tara was overmarked in the short program. Gusmeroli should have won the short program hands down which would have allowed Michelle to control her own destiny anyway.

[Dylvente]

I agree as to Lipinski. The trouble with the old system was that a skater who brought down the house technically, as Tara often did, automatically got top artistic marks too, even if her artistry was just good (as opposed to exquisite, awesome, too-great-to-describe like Kwan's). The same principle goes for the 98 Olympics. Tara was overmarked artistically and got the title that way.

[beckerbombs]

Irina lacked polish but her jumps and spins were the best quality, her skating was more powerful overall than Tara, and she interpreted the music better than Tara did even to her ugh music and hideous black dress. Michelle was excellent technically and in a class of her own artistically. Tara's only edge over Michelle or Irina was a harder triple-triple and 2nd triple lutz. Not enough though. Michelle's polish, maturity, and choreography was on another planet from Irina and Tara here.

[ifusuckilltellu]

Salome was great and started the ball rolling but Taj Mahal was my favorite and really the best work ever she started to lose the theatrics in her choreography after this I thought 1998's Long Program was 3 steps down from this one and from Salome and then in 1999 she kind of came with a theme but after that forget it!

[Chutson353]

I agree 98-2002 she kind of lost the dramatic flair although her skating was still head and shoulders above the rest but I think she got it back in 2003 and 2004.

[khailac]

This is one of my favorite long programs of hers. SO many transitions and details to the program. It's really jam-packed AND every nuance relates so well to the music. WIth upgraded spins and spirals, this would make a very COP friendly program.

[Chutson353]

Also one of her most underappreciated programs - artistically its flawless - the choreography is so perfectly suited to the music and flawlessly executed.

[TheWhatsinaname]

@Chutson353 I agree. I rate this second of my favorite Michelle programs only after her 1996 Worlds program to "Salome". Actually in some respects it's better than the '96 Worlds LP if only for the two triple-triple combinations and the quality of edges in her transitions and spins. I do wish she had been able to land the triple lutz near the end or substituted w/ a triple sal, so she could have gotten off the double axle.

[TheWhatsinaname]

@Chutson353 And the choreography was brilliant. I do wish also she hadn't been so far behind in 4th from the short program at that championships, so she could have still won over Tara. I also love the costuming for the Taj Mahal program. I always thought it's the best costume Michelle wore it so fit the progam's music.

[uncchristine99]

This is probably one of the strongest comebacks in competition ever. I think we all felt such relief along with her... great redemption in this performance.

[dandownunder19]

Thanks for posting in HQ, just a wonderful program after her probs in the SP.

[LOZO71489]

If only she pulled it together on the short program. She would of won the title again, but I'm still proud of her for fighting back

in the long program despite making a crucial

mistake on the short program. Give props to her on that =D