I hope more Turk's come to Jesus Christ. I like the message in this video but the last part about the Pope shouldn't have been included. CBN often speaks of the Pope and the RCC as though its Christian. The Roman Catholic Cult is not Christian! I hope more true Christians come to understand this historical fact. Presentations like this can often confuse a young believer into thinks the RCC is just another denomination, which it isn't! The persecution of Christians by Rome is well documented.
Olabilir! Ona kalirsa, irakta mogollar zamaninda budist'di! Amerika, avrupalilardan evvel samanistdi! Bu demek degildirki turkiye hala bir hristiyan ulkedir! Turkiyenin simdiki kimligi islamdir ve gercek kimligi islamdir! Eski birsey gercek anlamina gelmez! Ya sev yada terket!
Dear OrthodoxTurkGirl. You claim to be Turkish so I might as well speak Turkish with you.
Turkiye'deki hristiyanlar azinliktir! Sen ne hakla 80 milyonluk bir ulkenin kimligini hemen bir azinlik grubun tarihine dayarsin? Farkinda isen, Islam'dan once Turkiye diye birsey yoktu! Turkler geldi. Islam geldi. Osmanli kuruldu. Turkiye kuruldu! Bunu kucuk cocuk bile bilir! Eger ulkenin 98% musluman ise, o zaman o ulke musluman bir ulkedir! Selametle!
You know these Christians brought it up on themselves! And I knew the government wouldn't look into this case! Because Christian or any other Evangelism or Missionary work movement other than Islam is not allowed in Turkey! So basically these Christians were breaking the law! If you live in Turkey, you got to obey their laws. Simple!
Looks like someone is trying to grab some land ..Lets occupy Turkey ? Turkey does host Jewish and several other faith groups, as well as various brands of Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant Christians, which means it is a long way from denying religious freedom — Turkey is a home of tolerance compared to all of the Middle Eastern and even European Countries.. This is just an ugly propaganda trying to make people believe with no idea about this country at all ..
@IslamicMedProduction I say the same in America if the Islamic people dont like America laws they can get the hell out,but Islamic people enjoy to many freedoms in America to do so
Listen. Muslims who live in the west and are not happy with their laws, they can get out! Simple! But the thing is, Muslims apply shariah to themselves in their own household! They don't interfere with the lives of others! They just mind their own business! Whereas this garbage is just a false propaganda to vilify a nation.
@IslamicMedProduction already did that, they refuse - suppose we'll have to rebuild Auschwitz to get rid of these muslim rats who are infecting Europe.
Turkey is a military controlled nationalistic government that drowns itself in race based myth. Funny thing is there is no such thing as a "Turk" beyond citizenship. "Contrary to nationalist dogma, studies of population genetics have indicated that the modern Anatolian Turks are prevalently descended from indigenous (pre-Islamic) Anatolian populations." Race has been proven to be myth by DNA testing. That's why the Turkish government will not allow free and open DNA testing in Anatolia.
Funny, here we are fighting against so called terrorist, but yet you hear more and more about Muslim tolerance . crazy ass stupid gov bull crap.I hope everyone makes to heaven, but the bible says Jesus as savior. no other way.
Its the Brainwash they give you in scool, they teach you that The lands you live on now belongs to turkey, NO NO NO, its not , Northeast Turkey was once West armenia, Southeast Turkey was once to be North Kurdistan until you betrayed the kurds, west coast of turkey belonged to greeks and pontic greeks, You turks invaded and stole those lands, its ok, its the nature of invasions, but at least have the courage to admit your past and dont make up new history.
this makes me sad. the most advanced muslim society punishes people for converting others and building churches.I can't wait for the rapture and the millenial kingdom of Christ. thumbs up if you agree
@fws91 even the most advanced muslim society fails to live up to the minimum of tolerance that is standard in the west. Be it persecution of women or religious minorities or racial discrimination or even sunni vs. shia violence.
My mother is a Brazilian Catholic married to a Turkish Muslim. They never had or have problems with each others religions, and their families respect each others religion. You are an Armenian and are jealous of Turkey. You know nothing about Turkey or Muslims. I respect your opinions but spreading lies makes me hate you.
Armenians were at war with Turkey because they wanted their own state carved out of Turkish lands. In WW2, over 50 million civilians died. My point, Innocent civilians die in conflicts. Armenia sucks, that's why they try to paint a bad image on Turkey. Ask foreigners who traveled to Turkey what they thought of Turkey, they are the best source.
@turkzil Own state carved out of Turkish lands? Are you fucking stupid? Most of east Turkey is historical armenian land, if they did something is recovering their own land, remember, its the Turks who came from Mongolian steppes not the Armenians, Armenians lived in that regions you Turks were eating bananas in trees so dont come along with that bullshit, dont create history, or how do you explain all the Armenian Churches,monuments, in East turkey? Fuck off.
While Europe was unstable and persecuting different religious groups at different times, Turks gave religious freedom to anyone who wanted to practice their own religion. While the Jews were getting massacred in Medievel Europe, Turks took those Jews and appointed them into High Ottoman Courts as Ministers and etc... Europe was the worst for religious freedom. Virgin Marry's last house is located in Ephesus, Turkey. Muslims and Christians pray together in that Holy Site. I have seen it with my
@turkzil your historical account is fairly accurate. Turks were by far more moderate and enlightened than Christian Europe at that time. That doesn't say that Christians and Jews enjoyed equal rights there. They were still heavily discriminated against by today's standards. THe scary part is... while the West made great strides, islam has not moved forward since the middle ages when it comes to tolerance and civil rights.
im a christian from the usa. and even thow im not muslim i agree that everyone no matter what religion they practice. taking a christian church and turning it into a mosque is just wrong!! you would never see a christians take a mosque from muslims and turn it into a house for christians..if that happen u know some1 would want to start a war ..god will make who ever responsible for that pay!!!!!!!!!!
This only improves my faith in islam. What a cheap tactic to make islam evil... Not only dd this video attack Islam but also Turkey and the turkish citizens. Filthy devil followers!
@DrXoz In my opinion it didn't attack Islam at all. It just pointed out the facts. And the fact is, non-muslims are supposed to be subjugated as dictated in the Quran, and practiced by Muhammed. Quran teaches that non-muslims should have no power/authority, cannot build churches or fix existing churches, cannot be called as witnesses against a muslim, etc, etc. So if the facts make Islam look evil, maybe you should consider changing religions, because the facts are the truth.
@themacdaddytj be my guest and prove your point. Start quote verses out of Quran so I can debunk evey singel lie you just typed down. You are a liat just like your saint Paul. The fact is that you lie like the christian missionary lies when they try to convert small muslim kids like Rifqa Berry.
Maybe you should consider to read your own bible before throwing stones on other religion?
@DrXoz Apparently you haven't your own religion. What I'm saying is commanded in the Quran, and is seen all over the Hadith, and throughout Islamic history. Why is it that you, a muslim, are ignorant of what Islam? Did you only memorize the Quran, or did you actually study it? I'll dig up those verses for you later today so you can see how foolish you are. While I'm doing that, I want you to prove to me that I'm a liar. Let's see who actually has the proof of their words
@themacdaddytj The Quran and Hadith are the foundations for sharia law, whereby non-muslims are discriminated against in muslim countries. This should not be some shocking discovery for you. Every single Islamic school of jurisprudence teaches these things. Not just in the middle east, but throughout the world. It IS what Islam is. Not just some fantasy thought up by non-muslims. Again, it's prevalent throughout your books, throughout your history, and is STILL seen today.
@themacdaddytj The same old verses that has been refuted not one time but one thousand times. Alright lets start with sura 9:29..
I would love to quote it in its full context starting from sura 1 but it will take too much room. Anywayz if you read it with its context you will come to know that the verses are actually about how muslim should handle when being threatend by the enemy. But most important read these verses before 9:29.. 9:6-7-10-12-13-17-18-23-25 and 32
@themacdaddytj The main point, in this passage 9:29 is that the Muslims were NEVER to be the aggressors, they are to DEFEND themselves and they have always done so. See verse 13. "Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!"... So in conclusion muslims can defend themselves unlike christians like you!
@DrXoz During the final battle of the Crusades, Saladin justified his pressing into Jerusalem by saying that the Quran teaches that Muslims should not be aggressors only when they are outnumbered. But if they have the upper hand, Allah orders them to press the fight and undo the non-believers. I can't remember the passage he used now, but it was very clear and unambiguous. This is not only right out of your Quran, it's out of your very history...
@DrXoz Additionally, Islam is riddled with 1500 years of rising aggression against unbelievers; even hundreds of years before the Crusades, and even a couple of hundred years before most of Christian civilization had even heard of Islam. Again, this is out of Islamic history, is compelled by the Quran, and is found all over the Hadith.
When coming to sura 2:216, lets read the verse after. "They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. [ the verse CONTENUEs]
@themacdaddytj "NOR WILL THEY CEASE FIGHTING UNTIL THEY TURN YOU BACK FROM YOUR FAITH IF THEY CAN. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein."...
Muslims are not supposed to be cowards. If enemy declares war on them, muslim have to fight and defend, even if they dont like it. Unlike christians like you who are prohabited from defending themselves.
@themacdaddytj Last, about the Jizya. Lets quote from both isalmic and non islamic sources on how cheap the jizya was and what the benefits of it did to the non muslims.
Lets start with the muslim sources. Sahih bukhari Volume 2, Book 23, Number 475: "I recommend him to abide by the rules and regulations concerning the Dhimmis (protectees) of Allah and His Apostle, to fulfill their contracts completely AND FIGHT FOR THEM and not to tax (overburden) them beyond their capabilities."
@DrXoz Actually the Jizya was intended to be prohibitively expensive. When non-muslims began converting to Islam as a means of their own social/economic survival, the Jizya was "relaxed" because the muslim countries were losing their tax base. And by "relaxed" I mean only a little. This is why the Zoroastrians use to be a thriving culture, until Islam taxed them practically out of existence...
@DrXoz If you look into the history surrounding dhimmitude (the Jizya in addition to other social discrimination/oppression) you may be surprised at just how oppressive it really was. Non-muslims in no way had the same rights as muslims; they only had the same protections. Even if the Jizya was "mild" (and most historical accounts suggest that it was not mild) dhimmitude was an all-emcompassing institutionalized system of discrimination, still seen today in modern Islamic lands
@themacdaddytj Women and children did not have to pay Jizya. Malik's Muwatta Book 17, Number 17.24.46: "Malik said, "The sunna is that there is no jizya due from women or children of people of the Book, and that jizya is only taken from men who have reached puberty."
So women and children did not have to pay Jizya, only men who had reached the puperty and had a good work.
@DrXoz Of course women/children did not pay. The men were the heads of the household. But putting that aside, you're ignoring the unfairness of the reality of the Jizya....a tax reserved for non-muslims living in muslim lands--even if those people were indigenous to those lands before muslims conquered it. Even if the Jizya was dirt cheap (and it wasn't), it's still an exhibit of domination and oppression.
@themacdaddytj Next lets see how cheap the Jizya was from non isalmic sources.
(Sir Thomas Arnold, Invitation to Islam, p. 77 "The jizya was so light that it did not constitute a burden on them, especially when we observe that it exempted them from compulsory military service that was an obligation for their fellow citizens, the Muslims."
@DrXoz The Jizya didn't exempt anyone from military service. Being non-muslim exempted them from from the "honor" of military service! Jizya had nothing to do with it. So your source is already flawed. On top of that, Sir Thomas Arnold was a historian of Islamic ART. Not Islamic history or jurisprudence. He also wrote things about Catholicism that are laughably untrue and inaccurate. The list of his flawed or incorrect claims is a mile long.
@DrXoz I had to point this out--it's killing me. Thomas walker wrote "the tolerance of muhammad toward Jews/Christians was truly grand; the founders of other religions...did not prescribe such goodwill" It's historically inaccurate to the point of being complete fiction. Jews themselves wrote volumes about how much better they were treated in Crusader states than they were in muslim lands. Muhammed beheaded and enslaved Jews/Christians who did not convert...
@DrXoz He took adolescent children as servants or sexual objects until they reached puberty, at which point they were executed. Once again the Hadith alone disproves everything Arnold claims, not to mention the countless historical conclusions before, and SINCE Thomas Arnold. This source is so incredibly flawed, I caution you very seriously to reconsider your reliance on his works. And I mean that as intellectual-to-intellectual. Not in any adversarial way.
@themacdaddytj Now that it is obvious that you do not base any knowledge on islam, you should'nt attack this beautiful religion basen on only your opinion. Becuase its clear that you do not have any sort of source to back up your critique. Notice what you are doing, you just keep denying every fact that I just presented when debunking your whole position by merely stating your own lies which you obviously cant even back up with any sort of evidence.
@DrXoz You aren't presenting facts, once again. And unfortunately your own historical documents, and your own sacred books prove my point resoundingly, and disprove your claims resoundingly. I'm really kind of shocked that in spite of the Quran and Hadith, you continue to say the things you say. Muhammed would cast you out or execute you if he were alive today.
@themacdaddytj it is obvious that you dont have anything else to critisize islam with so you just attacking salahudding and what the muslims did after the death of Muhammad (pbuh).
I ask you who was the first target of the crusaders? Let me answer: THE JEWS of spain! Not that I now have to educate you on islam but I have to educate you on history as well.
@DrXoz The Crusades were an effort to protect pilgrims to the holy land and to re-take lands that Muslims took from Christians. Some crusaders saw it as an opportunity to be savages and killed Jews on their way to Jerusalem. Of course, those men were in the extreme minority. If you like we can count how many muslim warlords slaughtered innocent men women and CHILDREN throughout YOUR history and see who wins the trophy for dishonor (it would be Muslims)
@themacdaddytj You seem to think that christians were living in peace before islam? While they were not! Even they conquerd many lands before Muhamamd(pbuh) even started to preach islam. Such as the war between christian Rome and the Persians. I can give you many examples were christians were basicly slaughtering people for no reason. Even your own chrsitian prophets were slaughtering everyone including infants, children, pregnant women, old women and men, not even the animals were spared.
@DrXoz You just asked for trouble with this challenge. Okay.....present to me two things then. 1. Examples where Christians were slaughtering people for no reason. 2. Proof that Christians conquered lands before Muhammed and proof that we fought wars before Muhammed was preaching Islam. I'm warning you now, you're about to make a total fool of yourself, because you obviously do not realize that history does not support your claims. But I'm listening. present your argument.
You said "Actually the Jizya was intended to be prohibitively expensive." I just quoted non islamic source, an historian who said that Jizya was cheaper than the zakat, and still you act blind to this and keep typing down your utter nonsense without any evidence to back your arguements up
YOU SAID "Non-muslims in no way had the same rights as muslims; they only had the same protections."
I gave you the evidence supporting my case and you are still lying without any evidence? Shame on you!
@DrXoz 1. No, you quoted a source that is not credible. My first encounter of Thomas Arnold was in a philosophy class on the Exponents of Propaganda. Arnold has been a discredited source for YEARS That source doesn't count. And so you still have yet to present evidence. If you like I can offer you books by muslim scholars that make my point for me, and prove that you don't know what you're talking about.
@themacdaddytj You said "you're ignoring the unfairness of the reality of the Jizya....a tax reserved for non-muslims living in muslim lands"
Are you ignoring every singel evidence that i present and just keep typing your bullshit? It seems that you have a problem with non muslim paying taxes in muslim countries? If so you must have problem with me who is a muslim paying my taxes in SWEDEN a christian country? HAHAHA you see how easy it is to refute and reverse your arguements?
@DrXoz 1. You didn't answer my question. 2. You haven't presented evidence. You're presenting flawed sources, biased sources, and uninformed opinions. I don't think you've actually studied your own history. but I have. I've been studying it for years. I've been studying it for more years than you've been alive. So what I'm saying is NOT bullshit, though you may feel the need to call it that in an effort to discredit what I'm saying. The facts speak for themselves. And you've offered none.
@themacdaddytj You Said "On top of that, Sir Thomas Arnold was a historian of Islamic ART." ... Well atleast i quote you outside sources, you havent been able to give a singel source to anything you've put forward? Only your own thoughts and lies.
I can give you more islamic sources on how cheap the Jizya was but you will only come up with cheap excuses and say "well he was this or that so it is unreliable" while you yourself went to the same source in previous comments.
You havent been able to prove anything that you accused prophet Muhammad and the muslims of? Why is it so hard for you to show some evidence if you are so sure?
NEXT TIME you respond condemn your christian biblical PROPHETS for their innocent killings and raping before moving on to islam!
AND NEXT TIME bring forth your PROOOF. Dont just accuse islam for everything without proving your claims! PEACE
@DrXoz I don't have to prove it, history proves it for me. Your Hadith proves it for me. I mean, just Google the prophet and the proof will show up right in front of your face. The fact is YOU haven't been able to disprove anything I've said, nor have you been able to justify the injustices you even admit to (Jizya, Dhimmitude). So let's not kid ourselves here, you're the only one showing how foolish he really is.
@themacdaddytj Im sorry this had to be so long but i had to clarify. As we can see women and children did not have to pay the jizya. The jizya was not be burden on the non-muslims. The Jizya was cheaper than the zakat muslims had to pay. The Jizya gave many benefits to the non muslims, that muslims could not do. Here is a non islamic source were the tukrish petriarch shows that Muhammad granted protection and religious freedom to them.
@DrXoz@DrXoz One example I can give you now is Quran 9:29 "fight against the unbelievers until they pay tribute and feel themselves subdued" This is why non-muslims are discriminated against in muslim countries
Quran 2:216 "Warfare is ordained for you through you may hate it. But sometimes you will hate something that is good for you" Hadith 19:4294 "If they refuse to accept Islam demand from them the Jizya (tax). If they agree to pay accept it from them. If they refuse to pay, fight them"...
@themacdaddytj The Jizya was lesser than the Zakat muslims had to pay. (non isalmic source)
(The Fair Logic of Jizyah) Jizyah was calculated in different ways throughout different eras (a certain amount of money, certain percentage of the crops, etc), but it was consistently less than the zakah, which every Muslim had to pay anyway.
"SO much anti islamic propoganda, while in Europe christians were killing each other because they were protestant catholic"
Is it anti-American to point out crimes that the US troops do in other countries? No. Is it anti-Muslim to point out the crimes that Muslims do against non-Muslims in Muslim dominated countries? No. Also, you talk about protestant/catholic fighting- stop trying to change the subject.
@Nickname997 Turkey was a Christian nation until the muslims slaughtered and subjugated the Christians there. Which is why its a muslim nation today. The civil unrest in Europe between christians is more about social class than religion. In fact it isn't really about religion at all. All religions do not live in peace in turkey. Non muslims are institutionally discriminated against, which is an idea taken from the Quran, and it is part of the fabric of Turkish culture. Maybe YOU'RE brainwashed
@themacdaddytj OH PLEASE GO TO TURKEY and see if there is discrimination and learn the Turkish culture. Turkey was first pagan before christianity and later Muslims came who gave religious freedom. For a 1000 years christians lived together with muslims in freedom, in th 19th century the christians worked together with the imperialist west and tried to massacre all muslims and establish a pure christian state which is why the muslims expelled most of the christians. But christians still live.
@Nickname997 1. Reports like this video give enough evidence of how non-muslims are treated in Turkey--and such reports are numerous. I don't need to set feet on Turkish soil to witness it. 2. Never in the history is Islam, NEVER have muslims lived harmoniously with non-muslims, because the subjugation of non-muslims is a practice ORDERED by the Quran. 3...
@themacdaddytj If you would go to Turkey you would see the reality but ur prejudice is so powerfull, Well Muslims have in fact lived harmoniously with non muslims their entire history read some history books written by western historians themselves, Till the modern age Muslim countries were more tolerant than Western, but now Western have achieved tolerance too. In the middle ages christians had no tolerance even for christians, protestants killed catholics and vice versa. Inquistion learn..
@Nickname997 Harmoniously their entire history? Really? The destruction of Constantinople is harmony? The destruction of Christian Churches is harmony? The legalized discrimination against non-muslims is harmony? WOW!!! Your idea of peace and harmony is completely warped. How is it that every literary contribution regarding Islam for the past 300 years reports that Muslim countries are highly INTOLERANT of the Christians in their lands if--as you claim--Muslims are so tolerant of Christians?
@themacdaddytj Me discussing with you is also a waste of time its like a nonblind person discusses with a blind person who never saw the sun how the sun looks like, u talk about a country and people whom you have never met or never went, probably u never met 1 Turk in your life and the only news you got from Turkey were this kind of negative propoganda movies,You should read the subjects I wrote first, and besides believe what u want :) I dont want to waste my time to a totally ignorant person.
@Nickname997 Anyone reading these comments would conclude that YOU are the ignorant person. You offer no facts, no evidence. You offer only opinion. You say I'm blind because I have never been to Turkey...that's utterly ridiculous and evasive. I do know Turks. I know 17 of them. 12 Christian, 5 Muslim. I read books. I read news from various sources. I AM NOT uneducated in these matters. But apparently you are, because you offer absolutely no substance to this discussion, only uninformed opinion
Discrimination exist in every country and every society, it also happens between people with the same ethnic group or religion, But there is no mass discrimination of the Christians by the Turkish state or the muslims of Turkey in Turkey, thats the idea this propoganda movie wants to give, Turkey has hundreds of churches, an christian minority existing since more than 1000 years, every year millions of western tourists visiting, In fact Turkey had freedom of religion before the West.
@Nickname997 3..Muslims pretend that they allow non-muslims to co-exist peacefully. Yes, it may be peaceful, but it is NOT pleasant. In the United States (i mean in the past), Blacks co-existed with Whites peacefully, but blacks were discriminated against horribly and did NOT have the same rights as Whites. In kind, the dhimmi class in muslim lands DO live peacefully in those lands, but they live under discrimination and do not have the same rights as muslims. To deny this is to deny history
@themacdaddytj First of all you dont know anything about Turkey, if you would have actually went to Turkey and had seen the reality all your prejudices would dissapear, But I dont know but probably ur entire image of Turkey is this kind of propoganda movies and negative news in the media, then u have such an wrong image of Turkey. But probably you will never realise this.
@Nickname997 I have never seen a dinosaur either. And I never fought in the Civil War. But through education, research, and the reports of experts, I know quite a lot about those topics. So if you want to avoid the facts by hiding behind the insignificant detail that I've never been to turkey go right ahead. Hide, like a coward. But there are so many books and news reports and 117,575 Turkish CHristians in NYC that I needn't be in Turkey to assess the truth of the TUrkish muslim culture.
@themacdaddytj Muslims always gave religous freedom , read about the Umayyad caliphate in Spain, 5 centuries muslims lived together, But when catholic christian spain finished the reconquista in 1492.
Religious freedom ended everybody in Spain was forced to become catholic all Jews and Muslims, who didnt convert was killed or had to leave, most muslims pretended that they converted but secretly remained muslims. But in 1609 Spain still exiled all christians from muslim ancestry, learn...
@Nickname997 You keep saying stupid things like "Christians and muslims lived together" but that isn't in dispute. What is in dispute is the conditions under which Muslims and Christians lived together. Christians only lived under muslim rule under extreme conditions, under extreme discrimination, having to abide by rules that ONLY applied to dhimmis (non-muslim population). You keep suggesting they lived together in harmony but that is a BLATANT distortion of history. That makes you a liar.
@themacdaddytj Muslims (and especially in Turkey) never treated other religions the same behaviour that was shown to the Blacks in America, Your very ignorant denying the 1000 years tolerance muslim Turks showed, everybody lived like brothers, muslim families and christians lived in the same village, shared everything, many Christians became rich and owned businesses lived in larger houses then their muslim neighbours, phanariots Armenian Greek Traders, Jews, ur so ignorant learn learn...
@Nickname997 Oh really? Wikipedia: "In modern Turkey, the Istanbul pogrom was a state-sponsored and state-orchestrated pogrom that compelled Greek Christians to leave Istanbul, the first Christian city in violation to the Treaty of Lausanne (see Istanbul Pogrom). The issue of Christian genocides by the Turks may become a problem, since Turkey wishes to join the European Union." The record of things like this is a mile long. Maybe I know more about Turkey than you do.
@Nickname997 "Persecution of Christians has continued in modern Turkey. On 5 February 2006, the Catholic priest Andrea Santoro was murdered in Trabzon by a student influenced by the reactions following the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy. On 18 April 2007, 3 Christians were murdered in the bible publishing firm in Malatya. In December 2007, Adriano Franchini, a catholic priest, was stabbed in the stomach after Sunday mass. Franchini led the church of the Virgin Mary in Ephesus."
@themacdaddytj 7.There is no persecution of christians in Turkey, those murders were comitted by 5 individuals, millions of christians continue their daily life, in every country in the world there are instances of racist or religious motivated killings, incidents do not mean the rule, the number of christians killed the last 10 years isnt more than 10. Muslims and all non muslims live(d) in peace and as neighbours,friends, go ask christian people from Turkey if u dont believe.man ur stupid!
@Nickname997 " the number of christians killed the last 10 years isnt more than 10." Really? According to to the facts, there have been more than 10 religiously motivated killings of Christians in the last TWO years. Such killings speak to the culture of a nation. In a country where a religion is discriminated against by the laws of that country, it sets a tone. It sets an atmosphere, it sets a culture. Murders of Christians is the result of that culture
@Nickname997 Finally, as there are numerous reports such as this one which mar Turkey's history. This has been going on for countless years, it is not new behavior, and the historical record of Christians fleeing Turkey prove it (One of my best friends is Turkish Orthodox Christian whose family fled Turkey). Your lies and your ignorance do not work on me.
@themacdaddytj Historical record of Christians fleeing Turkey, that is such a big joke. CHRISTIANS HAVE NEVER FLED FROM TURKEY, why? because they all always lived very comfortably, I think your Turkish orthodox friends family only went to (USA?) to earn more money and the story of persecution they just lied to gain sympathy from the people there, while in reality itwas only for economic reasons,
If this is not true then tell me what kind of persecution did they face I am very curious.
@Nickname997 Obviously not all Christians flee turkey. Istambul still has CHristians in it. Although, as Turkish records indicate, the Christian population went form 50% to 1% LOL. And across the whole of Turkey, many--though not all--Christians HISTORICALLY FLEE THE COUNTRY as soon as they are able. In NYC alone there are ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOODS full of Christian Turks who fled turkey. This is part of YOUR history, and you're either lying when you deny it, or you're just that damn ignorant.
@themacdaddytj 6.Istanbul was conquered in 1453, Turkish muslims gave religious freedom to everybody, many christians and Jews settled there and lived together in peace for 500 years, most of the non muslims were more wealth than the muslim. Istanbul is full with churches and synagogues, christian cemeteries and schools, many of them built under Turkish rule. The Istanbul pogroms had a nationalistic reason conflict with greece, and it is the exception not the rule of the Turkish period.
@Nickname997 The Istambul pogroms completely defeat the root of your argument, because you are arguing that Christians and Muslims have lived in peace inTurkey for 500 years. And I have warned you before to stop using terms like "freedom" if you don't know what freedom means. Do you deny that there are laws in Turkey that restrict or inhibit the practice of non-muslim religions. Do you deny this, yes or no???
@Nickname997 Also, I want you to provide me with historic evidence of this alleged 19th century massacre of Muslims so that I can study your source and respond (or yield). One last thing: have you taken the time to research how many religiously motivated killings there were in Turkey in the past 10 years? The violence of muslims against Christians may surprise you. Yet you'll never see a report of a Christian detonating a bomb in a mosque or a Catholic stabbing an Imam to death.
@themacdaddytj Historic evidence,read this book (Death and Exile of Ottoman Muslims), by justin Mccarty, read the Dashnak plans for great Armenia, Greek invasion of Turkey in 1918, read the Balkan wars in 1912, the millions of muslims refugees, the wars Russia made ethnically cleansing Muslims.The exile of Circassians by the Russians, the Treaty of Sevres forced to Turkey by the Imperialist west, and the puppets of them were the christian minority who had lived in wealth and religious freedom.
@Nickname997 This book is in reference to Ethnic cleansing perpetrated BY muslims against other muslims, as well as by the Soviet Union, which had nothing to do with Christianity in the least. It was about imperialism territorialism and ethnic conflict. And in case you don't know, Islam is not an ethnicity. This book does not support your argument at all.
@themacdaddytj The violent killings of the christians in the last years is protested by all the Turkish people and media and the murderers are all in prison. In the last 10 years If I am not wrong less then 20 christians were killed by a group of less then 20 muslims, the population of Turkey is 70 million, it has 200,000 christians and every year 10 million western tourists come, and the last years 10thousands of germans and english bought houses and live in Turkey,learn the reality.
@Nickname997 Your country's population demographic does not speak to your argument. The number of Christian tourists to Turkey does not speak to your argument. The issue at hand is Turkey does not treat Christians the same way Muslims are treated in Turkey. I have supplied mounds of evidence to support my argument. Details, facts, historical evidence. You have provided distortions of history, blind accusations of my ignorance, and you have provided NO HISTORICAL RECORD to support your claim.
@themacdaddytj Western news is always biased and makes sysytematic propoganda against muslims, christians in northern Ireland fought for years, You yourself may be surprised how many Muslim have been killed by the christian west in the last years, In the first weeks of the invasion of Iraq 20,000 people died from bombing, Usa dropped 2 atomic bombs and killled 150,000 in 10 seconds in japan. each day western aircraft targets civilian homes in Afghanistan, hundreds ofwomen and children die,
@Nickname997 Why do muslims always dismiss the truth as propaganda? Would you call TV shows depicting Jews killing Christian children to use their blood in Matzo "propaganda" ? Because that's the programming airing on Muslim TV as we speak. You can actually find it on YouTube. Would you call reports of 10,000 people dying in the world trade center "propaganda"? That's what Arab TV reported for years after 9-11. I don't think you have a very good eye/ear for what propaganda really is.
@Nickname997 After some research I have found a few things. Istambul was 50% Christian up to 1914. Today it is less than 1% Christian. Catholic Church is not legally recognized in Turkey. There are laws restricting ownership of property by non-muslims. They cannot build places of worship or run seminaries or train clerics. Freedom House lists Turkey as "Partly Free" All other EU members or candidates for entry are listed as "Free". The more I research, the more ridiculous your claims appear.
@themacdaddytj Istanbul was conquered by Turks in 1453, they gave religous freedom to everbyody, 500 years later the population was 50% because of tolerance, but they later left for nationalistic reasons, Greece had a very large muslim population, Athens had many Ottoman mosques now they are churches or used for other purpose, the story has 2 sides you know. greece got an immigrant muslim population the last 30 years, but 100 years ago greece was 20% native muslim now 0,1%, of total population
@Nickname997 First of all your argument goes to dust as soon as you admit that Turks "conquered" Constantinople (Istambul). Because--as history records it--the Turks were never attacked by Constantinople, and were never provoked to war. So your argument is already defeated by your own admission. Second of all...
@themacdaddytj 1.Europeans colonised america and the entire world killing millions of natives and destroying their culture, muslim Turks never did this. 2. There is totally freedom in Turkey, all religions have their own temples, churches, shools, cemetaries, national holidays, newspapers, 3. Christian Turks live in total peace and freedom, and have equal rights,4. Turkey isnot an Arab country or Afghanistan,5. Turkey has always been an ally of Usa and is a secular country.
@Nickname997 1. Europeans have nothing to do with this argument. And your statistics are inflated to the point of being deceptive. Europeans didn't kill millions, and they didn't destroy their culture. 3. Christian turks live in peace, and under the oppression of laws written specifically to restrict Christians from being in the same class as Muslims. Again, you have yet to refute that with fact. You offer only opinions.
@Nickname997 ...Second of all, stop trying to fool people with your twisted use of words like "Freedom" and "Tolerance". Religious "freedom" means people are allowed to practice their religion without tax, without special rules, and without discrimination. This type of freedom NEVER existed in Turkey. As such, you cannot legitimately claim "tolerance" either. Yes, Christians can practice their religion "freely" in Turkey, but not without institutionalized discrimination.
@themacdaddytj Turkey has many laws regarding to foreigners, may countries in the world have those, Turkeys neighbours are christian states with whom they had a lot of wars, their secret or open goal is to destroy Turkey, so Turkey controls missionary activity and foreign ownership, But all the christian neighbours of Turkey have the same laws, Athens doesnt even has one official mosque while Istanul has more than 100 churches but Greece will never be criticized, but Turkey will, the prejudice
@Nickname997 We aren't talking about foreigners here. We're talking about Christian TURKS. So stop trying to deflect. Nowhere in the world do Muslims live under the same institutionalized oppression that Christians experience in Muslim countries INCLUDING Turkey. And none of these facts are disputable.
@themacdaddytj Listen you have never been to Turkey you know nothing about Turkey you are very prejudiced and incredibly ignorant and still you think you know everything, most what you said is just bullshit, first of all learn history and read books. And then think. You are just a brainwashed islamophobe who doesnt know anything only but selective propoganda.
The simple reality is christians- muslims live in total peace in Turkey, what you yourself believe isnt the reality but only fantasy.
@Nickname997 I'm not an islamophobe. I actually had profound respect for Islam until I began studying it, and studying its history and looking into modern islam and modern islamic culture. So to call me ignorant, stupid, or to call my opinions "bullshit" is evasive and cowardly. You, on the other hand, offer no substantiation to your claims, which makes YOUR claims bullshit, since you fail to back them up with facts.
@themacdaddytj Dude I said go to Turkey, so u can see the reality, because one visit would destroy more of your prejudices than hundreds of books,movie, news,talks
Dude you can believe what you want, maybe one day you will understand the reality
maybe....... or you will live your entire life brainwashed with prejudice,
I dont care..... I tried to explain......bye.....
@Nickname997 I don't have to BE in Turkey to know that there are laws discriminating against christians. I don't have to be in Turkey to know that these discriminatory laws coincide with the Quran, and Islamic History. I'm sure Turkey isn't some hell hole where Christians are hunted down like animals. I'm not suggesting that. What I'm stating is that in practice Christians do not get the same treatment as muslims in turkey, and such discrimination is the norm.
God Bless Turkey. I know God has a purpose in this beautiful country. let's pray for christians in turkey, and not only to them, but to all of the pple around the world
Turkey was established in 1923, for 11 centuries before that was a Christian country in fact Christianity was born out of this area. Take a look at the ancient Churches that pre date the invasion of the Ottoman Mongolians in 1400s. St. Sofia church was a church until it was converted to a mosque today it is a museum and the town changed from Constaniople to Istanbul. To be a Christian in Turkey is risking your life.
I Think that Muslim countries only kill other Christians because they dont want their population to go down, what kind of religion kills and throws people in jail for being another religion? Christianity's god loves you for who you are and gives you free choices! and will! Islam is the mot brutal religion. GOD BLESS YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST!
Robert Morrison was a missionary who first translated Bible into Chinese. But BIG problem - his justification to enter China was as employee for British East Indies Company, biggest smuggler of opium into China. Eastern nations legitimately fear spies of West who claim to be missionaries! Religious freedom is one thing, but if Human Rights is often used as excuse to violate Int'l Sovereignty - a country's right to self rule. Why not Animal Rights = Human Rights = Civil Rights? Should be same!
Actually China has nothing to fear from Christianity. Jesus paid taxes and his followers to do so. the new Testament clearly states that Christians are to be good citizens.
As for spies from the West well I can't say nothing about that.
@crazy4jesus63 I agree - China has nothing to fear from TRUE Christians, but every country must be watchful of foreigners who masquerade as missionaries, etc....
@crazy4jesus63 By the way, I'm not accusing Morrison of being evil. Given Britain had no trade with China, Morrison perhaps had no other reason or justification to be in China, so he took what opportunity he could. The British East Indies Co was implementing evil deeds, so Morrison was judged by the company he kept!
Probably due to the primitive nature of Turko-Mongolian civilization, Turkey is the only Muslim country that has no tolerance toward any other religions.
As a matter of fact, Turks have only been in Anatolia ("Turkey", as called today) for about 600 or 700 years. Constantinople ("Istanbul" as called today) has only fell to Turks' hands since 1453. What a pity!
I hope more Turk's come to Jesus Christ. I like the message in this video but the last part about the Pope shouldn't have been included. CBN often speaks of the Pope and the RCC as though its Christian. The Roman Catholic Cult is not Christian! I hope more true Christians come to understand this historical fact. Presentations like this can often confuse a young believer into thinks the RCC is just another denomination, which it isn't! The persecution of Christians by Rome is well documented.
Isaiah122 4 weeks ago
@OrthodoxTurkGirl88
Olabilir! Ona kalirsa, irakta mogollar zamaninda budist'di! Amerika, avrupalilardan evvel samanistdi! Bu demek degildirki turkiye hala bir hristiyan ulkedir! Turkiyenin simdiki kimligi islamdir ve gercek kimligi islamdir! Eski birsey gercek anlamina gelmez! Ya sev yada terket!
IslamicMedProduction 4 weeks ago
@OrthodoxTurkGirl88
Dear OrthodoxTurkGirl. You claim to be Turkish so I might as well speak Turkish with you.
Turkiye'deki hristiyanlar azinliktir! Sen ne hakla 80 milyonluk bir ulkenin kimligini hemen bir azinlik grubun tarihine dayarsin? Farkinda isen, Islam'dan once Turkiye diye birsey yoktu! Turkler geldi. Islam geldi. Osmanli kuruldu. Turkiye kuruldu! Bunu kucuk cocuk bile bilir! Eger ulkenin 98% musluman ise, o zaman o ulke musluman bir ulkedir! Selametle!
IslamicMedProduction 1 month ago
When Islam is ashes, you have my permission to die!!
baywatchrules12 1 month ago
Turkey belongs to Attaturk, not Islam, not Christianity!!! Period!!
baywatchrules12 2 months ago
@baywatchrules12
Ataturk is dead. The country never belonged to him! Turkey's real identity is Islam whether you accept it or not!
IslamicMedProduction 1 month ago
@IslamicMedProduction Keep dreaming numnuts!!!!
baywatchrules12 1 month ago
@baywatchrules12
Dreams do come true! and how is it a dream when it already is a reality!
IslamicMedProduction 1 month ago
@elisabethkohler33
I'm not! You're just a bitch who likes to waste her time on YT!
IslamicMedProduction 3 months ago
You know these Christians brought it up on themselves! And I knew the government wouldn't look into this case! Because Christian or any other Evangelism or Missionary work movement other than Islam is not allowed in Turkey! So basically these Christians were breaking the law! If you live in Turkey, you got to obey their laws. Simple!
IslamicMedProduction 3 months ago
Looks like someone is trying to grab some land ..Lets occupy Turkey ? Turkey does host Jewish and several other faith groups, as well as various brands of Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant Christians, which means it is a long way from denying religious freedom — Turkey is a home of tolerance compared to all of the Middle Eastern and even European Countries.. This is just an ugly propaganda trying to make people believe with no idea about this country at all ..
zeynelkorukmez 3 months ago
you know, if they don't like Turkey's Islamic nature, they can just get the hell out!
IslamicMedProduction 3 months ago
@IslamicMedProduction I say the same in America if the Islamic people dont like America laws they can get the hell out,but Islamic people enjoy to many freedoms in America to do so
kyriacos40 3 months ago
@kyriacos40
Listen. Muslims who live in the west and are not happy with their laws, they can get out! Simple! But the thing is, Muslims apply shariah to themselves in their own household! They don't interfere with the lives of others! They just mind their own business! Whereas this garbage is just a false propaganda to vilify a nation.
IslamicMedProduction 3 months ago
@IslamicMedProduction and get the Turks the hell out of Europe!
Trains2007 1 month ago
@Trains2007
I never asked them to go there so u can do that!
IslamicMedProduction 1 month ago
@IslamicMedProduction already did that, they refuse - suppose we'll have to rebuild Auschwitz to get rid of these muslim rats who are infecting Europe.
Trains2007 1 month ago
@Trains2007
LOL u may be a nazi but let me tell you something. Muslims are not Jews! We will shove you into Auschwitz!
IslamicMedProduction 1 month ago
@IslamicMedProduction Endloesung der Muhammedanen Schweine - bye bye cousin-marriage inbred muslim retards.
Trains2007 1 month ago
@elisabethkohler33
lol elisabeth I have found you here as well!
IslamicMedProduction 3 months ago
Turkey is a military controlled nationalistic government that drowns itself in race based myth. Funny thing is there is no such thing as a "Turk" beyond citizenship. "Contrary to nationalist dogma, studies of population genetics have indicated that the modern Anatolian Turks are prevalently descended from indigenous (pre-Islamic) Anatolian populations." Race has been proven to be myth by DNA testing. That's why the Turkish government will not allow free and open DNA testing in Anatolia.
timeallows 3 months ago
Funny, here we are fighting against so called terrorist, but yet you hear more and more about Muslim tolerance . crazy ass stupid gov bull crap.I hope everyone makes to heaven, but the bible says Jesus as savior. no other way.
JamesAlan051 4 months ago
Its the Brainwash they give you in scool, they teach you that The lands you live on now belongs to turkey, NO NO NO, its not , Northeast Turkey was once West armenia, Southeast Turkey was once to be North Kurdistan until you betrayed the kurds, west coast of turkey belonged to greeks and pontic greeks, You turks invaded and stole those lands, its ok, its the nature of invasions, but at least have the courage to admit your past and dont make up new history.
xTheWarlordx 5 months ago
this makes me sad. the most advanced muslim society punishes people for converting others and building churches.I can't wait for the rapture and the millenial kingdom of Christ. thumbs up if you agree
fws91 5 months ago
@fws91 even the most advanced muslim society fails to live up to the minimum of tolerance that is standard in the west. Be it persecution of women or religious minorities or racial discrimination or even sunni vs. shia violence.
mrkv39 5 months ago
My mother is a Brazilian Catholic married to a Turkish Muslim. They never had or have problems with each others religions, and their families respect each others religion. You are an Armenian and are jealous of Turkey. You know nothing about Turkey or Muslims. I respect your opinions but spreading lies makes me hate you.
turkzil 6 months ago
@turkzil
Marry a muslim woman with a catholic man you will see problems coming up.
GrandmasterTigerfist 6 months ago
@GrandmasterTigerfist You didn't fully read my comment, did you?
turkzil 5 months ago
Armenians were at war with Turkey because they wanted their own state carved out of Turkish lands. In WW2, over 50 million civilians died. My point, Innocent civilians die in conflicts. Armenia sucks, that's why they try to paint a bad image on Turkey. Ask foreigners who traveled to Turkey what they thought of Turkey, they are the best source.
turkzil 6 months ago
@turkzil Own state carved out of Turkish lands? Are you fucking stupid? Most of east Turkey is historical armenian land, if they did something is recovering their own land, remember, its the Turks who came from Mongolian steppes not the Armenians, Armenians lived in that regions you Turks were eating bananas in trees so dont come along with that bullshit, dont create history, or how do you explain all the Armenian Churches,monuments, in East turkey? Fuck off.
xTheWarlordx 5 months ago
While Europe was unstable and persecuting different religious groups at different times, Turks gave religious freedom to anyone who wanted to practice their own religion. While the Jews were getting massacred in Medievel Europe, Turks took those Jews and appointed them into High Ottoman Courts as Ministers and etc... Europe was the worst for religious freedom. Virgin Marry's last house is located in Ephesus, Turkey. Muslims and Christians pray together in that Holy Site. I have seen it with my
turkzil 6 months ago
@turkzil your historical account is fairly accurate. Turks were by far more moderate and enlightened than Christian Europe at that time. That doesn't say that Christians and Jews enjoyed equal rights there. They were still heavily discriminated against by today's standards. THe scary part is... while the West made great strides, islam has not moved forward since the middle ages when it comes to tolerance and civil rights.
mrkv39 5 months ago
im a christian from the usa. and even thow im not muslim i agree that everyone no matter what religion they practice. taking a christian church and turning it into a mosque is just wrong!! you would never see a christians take a mosque from muslims and turn it into a house for christians..if that happen u know some1 would want to start a war ..god will make who ever responsible for that pay!!!!!!!!!!
seveere1 6 months ago
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DrXoz 6 months ago
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DrXoz 6 months ago
This only improves my faith in islam. What a cheap tactic to make islam evil... Not only dd this video attack Islam but also Turkey and the turkish citizens. Filthy devil followers!
DrXoz 8 months ago
@DrXoz In my opinion it didn't attack Islam at all. It just pointed out the facts. And the fact is, non-muslims are supposed to be subjugated as dictated in the Quran, and practiced by Muhammed. Quran teaches that non-muslims should have no power/authority, cannot build churches or fix existing churches, cannot be called as witnesses against a muslim, etc, etc. So if the facts make Islam look evil, maybe you should consider changing religions, because the facts are the truth.
themacdaddytj 7 months ago
@themacdaddytj be my guest and prove your point. Start quote verses out of Quran so I can debunk evey singel lie you just typed down. You are a liat just like your saint Paul. The fact is that you lie like the christian missionary lies when they try to convert small muslim kids like Rifqa Berry.
Maybe you should consider to read your own bible before throwing stones on other religion?
DrXoz 7 months ago
@DrXoz Apparently you haven't your own religion. What I'm saying is commanded in the Quran, and is seen all over the Hadith, and throughout Islamic history. Why is it that you, a muslim, are ignorant of what Islam? Did you only memorize the Quran, or did you actually study it? I'll dig up those verses for you later today so you can see how foolish you are. While I'm doing that, I want you to prove to me that I'm a liar. Let's see who actually has the proof of their words
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj The Quran and Hadith are the foundations for sharia law, whereby non-muslims are discriminated against in muslim countries. This should not be some shocking discovery for you. Every single Islamic school of jurisprudence teaches these things. Not just in the middle east, but throughout the world. It IS what Islam is. Not just some fantasy thought up by non-muslims. Again, it's prevalent throughout your books, throughout your history, and is STILL seen today.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj The same old verses that has been refuted not one time but one thousand times. Alright lets start with sura 9:29..
I would love to quote it in its full context starting from sura 1 but it will take too much room. Anywayz if you read it with its context you will come to know that the verses are actually about how muslim should handle when being threatend by the enemy. But most important read these verses before 9:29.. 9:6-7-10-12-13-17-18-23-25 and 32
DrXoz 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj The main point, in this passage 9:29 is that the Muslims were NEVER to be the aggressors, they are to DEFEND themselves and they have always done so. See verse 13. "Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!"... So in conclusion muslims can defend themselves unlike christians like you!
DrXoz 6 months ago
@DrXoz During the final battle of the Crusades, Saladin justified his pressing into Jerusalem by saying that the Quran teaches that Muslims should not be aggressors only when they are outnumbered. But if they have the upper hand, Allah orders them to press the fight and undo the non-believers. I can't remember the passage he used now, but it was very clear and unambiguous. This is not only right out of your Quran, it's out of your very history...
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@DrXoz Additionally, Islam is riddled with 1500 years of rising aggression against unbelievers; even hundreds of years before the Crusades, and even a couple of hundred years before most of Christian civilization had even heard of Islam. Again, this is out of Islamic history, is compelled by the Quran, and is found all over the Hadith.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj
When coming to sura 2:216, lets read the verse after. "They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. [ the verse CONTENUEs]
DrXoz 6 months ago
@DrXoz I don't see how this verse solidifies your argument in the least. Please explain.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj "NOR WILL THEY CEASE FIGHTING UNTIL THEY TURN YOU BACK FROM YOUR FAITH IF THEY CAN. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein."...
Muslims are not supposed to be cowards. If enemy declares war on them, muslim have to fight and defend, even if they dont like it. Unlike christians like you who are prohabited from defending themselves.
DrXoz 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj Last, about the Jizya. Lets quote from both isalmic and non islamic sources on how cheap the jizya was and what the benefits of it did to the non muslims.
Lets start with the muslim sources. Sahih bukhari Volume 2, Book 23, Number 475: "I recommend him to abide by the rules and regulations concerning the Dhimmis (protectees) of Allah and His Apostle, to fulfill their contracts completely AND FIGHT FOR THEM and not to tax (overburden) them beyond their capabilities."
DrXoz 6 months ago
@DrXoz Actually the Jizya was intended to be prohibitively expensive. When non-muslims began converting to Islam as a means of their own social/economic survival, the Jizya was "relaxed" because the muslim countries were losing their tax base. And by "relaxed" I mean only a little. This is why the Zoroastrians use to be a thriving culture, until Islam taxed them practically out of existence...
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@DrXoz If you look into the history surrounding dhimmitude (the Jizya in addition to other social discrimination/oppression) you may be surprised at just how oppressive it really was. Non-muslims in no way had the same rights as muslims; they only had the same protections. Even if the Jizya was "mild" (and most historical accounts suggest that it was not mild) dhimmitude was an all-emcompassing institutionalized system of discrimination, still seen today in modern Islamic lands
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj Women and children did not have to pay Jizya. Malik's Muwatta Book 17, Number 17.24.46: "Malik said, "The sunna is that there is no jizya due from women or children of people of the Book, and that jizya is only taken from men who have reached puberty."
So women and children did not have to pay Jizya, only men who had reached the puperty and had a good work.
DrXoz 6 months ago
@DrXoz Of course women/children did not pay. The men were the heads of the household. But putting that aside, you're ignoring the unfairness of the reality of the Jizya....a tax reserved for non-muslims living in muslim lands--even if those people were indigenous to those lands before muslims conquered it. Even if the Jizya was dirt cheap (and it wasn't), it's still an exhibit of domination and oppression.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj Next lets see how cheap the Jizya was from non isalmic sources.
(Sir Thomas Arnold, Invitation to Islam, p. 77 "The jizya was so light that it did not constitute a burden on them, especially when we observe that it exempted them from compulsory military service that was an obligation for their fellow citizens, the Muslims."
DrXoz 6 months ago
@DrXoz The Jizya didn't exempt anyone from military service. Being non-muslim exempted them from from the "honor" of military service! Jizya had nothing to do with it. So your source is already flawed. On top of that, Sir Thomas Arnold was a historian of Islamic ART. Not Islamic history or jurisprudence. He also wrote things about Catholicism that are laughably untrue and inaccurate. The list of his flawed or incorrect claims is a mile long.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@DrXoz I had to point this out--it's killing me. Thomas walker wrote "the tolerance of muhammad toward Jews/Christians was truly grand; the founders of other religions...did not prescribe such goodwill" It's historically inaccurate to the point of being complete fiction. Jews themselves wrote volumes about how much better they were treated in Crusader states than they were in muslim lands. Muhammed beheaded and enslaved Jews/Christians who did not convert...
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@DrXoz He took adolescent children as servants or sexual objects until they reached puberty, at which point they were executed. Once again the Hadith alone disproves everything Arnold claims, not to mention the countless historical conclusions before, and SINCE Thomas Arnold. This source is so incredibly flawed, I caution you very seriously to reconsider your reliance on his works. And I mean that as intellectual-to-intellectual. Not in any adversarial way.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj Now that it is obvious that you do not base any knowledge on islam, you should'nt attack this beautiful religion basen on only your opinion. Becuase its clear that you do not have any sort of source to back up your critique. Notice what you are doing, you just keep denying every fact that I just presented when debunking your whole position by merely stating your own lies which you obviously cant even back up with any sort of evidence.
DrXoz 6 months ago
@DrXoz You aren't presenting facts, once again. And unfortunately your own historical documents, and your own sacred books prove my point resoundingly, and disprove your claims resoundingly. I'm really kind of shocked that in spite of the Quran and Hadith, you continue to say the things you say. Muhammed would cast you out or execute you if he were alive today.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj it is obvious that you dont have anything else to critisize islam with so you just attacking salahudding and what the muslims did after the death of Muhammad (pbuh).
I ask you who was the first target of the crusaders? Let me answer: THE JEWS of spain! Not that I now have to educate you on islam but I have to educate you on history as well.
DrXoz 6 months ago
@DrXoz The Crusades were an effort to protect pilgrims to the holy land and to re-take lands that Muslims took from Christians. Some crusaders saw it as an opportunity to be savages and killed Jews on their way to Jerusalem. Of course, those men were in the extreme minority. If you like we can count how many muslim warlords slaughtered innocent men women and CHILDREN throughout YOUR history and see who wins the trophy for dishonor (it would be Muslims)
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj You seem to think that christians were living in peace before islam? While they were not! Even they conquerd many lands before Muhamamd(pbuh) even started to preach islam. Such as the war between christian Rome and the Persians. I can give you many examples were christians were basicly slaughtering people for no reason. Even your own chrsitian prophets were slaughtering everyone including infants, children, pregnant women, old women and men, not even the animals were spared.
DrXoz 6 months ago
@DrXoz You just asked for trouble with this challenge. Okay.....present to me two things then. 1. Examples where Christians were slaughtering people for no reason. 2. Proof that Christians conquered lands before Muhammed and proof that we fought wars before Muhammed was preaching Islam. I'm warning you now, you're about to make a total fool of yourself, because you obviously do not realize that history does not support your claims. But I'm listening. present your argument.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
You said "Actually the Jizya was intended to be prohibitively expensive." I just quoted non islamic source, an historian who said that Jizya was cheaper than the zakat, and still you act blind to this and keep typing down your utter nonsense without any evidence to back your arguements up
YOU SAID "Non-muslims in no way had the same rights as muslims; they only had the same protections."
I gave you the evidence supporting my case and you are still lying without any evidence? Shame on you!
DrXoz 6 months ago
@DrXoz 1. No, you quoted a source that is not credible. My first encounter of Thomas Arnold was in a philosophy class on the Exponents of Propaganda. Arnold has been a discredited source for YEARS That source doesn't count. And so you still have yet to present evidence. If you like I can offer you books by muslim scholars that make my point for me, and prove that you don't know what you're talking about.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj You said "you're ignoring the unfairness of the reality of the Jizya....a tax reserved for non-muslims living in muslim lands"
Are you ignoring every singel evidence that i present and just keep typing your bullshit? It seems that you have a problem with non muslim paying taxes in muslim countries? If so you must have problem with me who is a muslim paying my taxes in SWEDEN a christian country? HAHAHA you see how easy it is to refute and reverse your arguements?
DrXoz 6 months ago
@DrXoz 1. You didn't answer my question. 2. You haven't presented evidence. You're presenting flawed sources, biased sources, and uninformed opinions. I don't think you've actually studied your own history. but I have. I've been studying it for years. I've been studying it for more years than you've been alive. So what I'm saying is NOT bullshit, though you may feel the need to call it that in an effort to discredit what I'm saying. The facts speak for themselves. And you've offered none.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
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DrXoz 6 months ago
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DrXoz 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@themacdaddytj You Said "On top of that, Sir Thomas Arnold was a historian of Islamic ART." ... Well atleast i quote you outside sources, you havent been able to give a singel source to anything you've put forward? Only your own thoughts and lies.
I can give you more islamic sources on how cheap the Jizya was but you will only come up with cheap excuses and say "well he was this or that so it is unreliable" while you yourself went to the same source in previous comments.
DrXoz 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj you said "Jews themselves wrote volumes about how much better they were treated in Crusader states"
THATS ONE BIG BULLSHIT! HERE IS A FAMOUS JEWISH RABBI WHO HIMSELF REFUTES YOU:
/watch?v=Txu4KIdi1yc&feature=related Time 17:48
So again prove your point just like I am proving my.
DrXoz 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj
You havent been able to prove anything that you accused prophet Muhammad and the muslims of? Why is it so hard for you to show some evidence if you are so sure?
NEXT TIME you respond condemn your christian biblical PROPHETS for their innocent killings and raping before moving on to islam!
AND NEXT TIME bring forth your PROOOF. Dont just accuse islam for everything without proving your claims! PEACE
DrXoz 6 months ago
@DrXoz I don't have to prove it, history proves it for me. Your Hadith proves it for me. I mean, just Google the prophet and the proof will show up right in front of your face. The fact is YOU haven't been able to disprove anything I've said, nor have you been able to justify the injustices you even admit to (Jizya, Dhimmitude). So let's not kid ourselves here, you're the only one showing how foolish he really is.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj Im sorry this had to be so long but i had to clarify. As we can see women and children did not have to pay the jizya. The jizya was not be burden on the non-muslims. The Jizya was cheaper than the zakat muslims had to pay. The Jizya gave many benefits to the non muslims, that muslims could not do. Here is a non islamic source were the tukrish petriarch shows that Muhammad granted protection and religious freedom to them.
/watch?v=uAhNzusURQs&feature=related
Time 2:57
DrXoz 6 months ago
@DrXoz @DrXoz One example I can give you now is Quran 9:29 "fight against the unbelievers until they pay tribute and feel themselves subdued" This is why non-muslims are discriminated against in muslim countries
Quran 2:216 "Warfare is ordained for you through you may hate it. But sometimes you will hate something that is good for you" Hadith 19:4294 "If they refuse to accept Islam demand from them the Jizya (tax). If they agree to pay accept it from them. If they refuse to pay, fight them"...
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj The Jizya was lesser than the Zakat muslims had to pay. (non isalmic source)
(The Fair Logic of Jizyah) Jizyah was calculated in different ways throughout different eras (a certain amount of money, certain percentage of the crops, etc), but it was consistently less than the zakah, which every Muslim had to pay anyway.
DrXoz 6 months ago
SO much anti islamic propoganda, while in Europe christians were killing each other because they were protestant catholic,
In Turkey all religions lived in peace and continue
what a dumb brainwashed people live in this world.,....
Nickname997 8 months ago
@Nickname997
"SO much anti islamic propoganda, while in Europe christians were killing each other because they were protestant catholic"
Is it anti-American to point out crimes that the US troops do in other countries? No. Is it anti-Muslim to point out the crimes that Muslims do against non-Muslims in Muslim dominated countries? No. Also, you talk about protestant/catholic fighting- stop trying to change the subject.
TurboDally 7 months ago
@Nickname997 Turkey was a Christian nation until the muslims slaughtered and subjugated the Christians there. Which is why its a muslim nation today. The civil unrest in Europe between christians is more about social class than religion. In fact it isn't really about religion at all. All religions do not live in peace in turkey. Non muslims are institutionally discriminated against, which is an idea taken from the Quran, and it is part of the fabric of Turkish culture. Maybe YOU'RE brainwashed
themacdaddytj 7 months ago
@themacdaddytj OH PLEASE GO TO TURKEY and see if there is discrimination and learn the Turkish culture. Turkey was first pagan before christianity and later Muslims came who gave religious freedom. For a 1000 years christians lived together with muslims in freedom, in th 19th century the christians worked together with the imperialist west and tried to massacre all muslims and establish a pure christian state which is why the muslims expelled most of the christians. But christians still live.
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 1. Reports like this video give enough evidence of how non-muslims are treated in Turkey--and such reports are numerous. I don't need to set feet on Turkish soil to witness it. 2. Never in the history is Islam, NEVER have muslims lived harmoniously with non-muslims, because the subjugation of non-muslims is a practice ORDERED by the Quran. 3...
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj If you would go to Turkey you would see the reality but ur prejudice is so powerfull, Well Muslims have in fact lived harmoniously with non muslims their entire history read some history books written by western historians themselves, Till the modern age Muslim countries were more tolerant than Western, but now Western have achieved tolerance too. In the middle ages christians had no tolerance even for christians, protestants killed catholics and vice versa. Inquistion learn..
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 Harmoniously their entire history? Really? The destruction of Constantinople is harmony? The destruction of Christian Churches is harmony? The legalized discrimination against non-muslims is harmony? WOW!!! Your idea of peace and harmony is completely warped. How is it that every literary contribution regarding Islam for the past 300 years reports that Muslim countries are highly INTOLERANT of the Christians in their lands if--as you claim--Muslims are so tolerant of Christians?
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj Me discussing with you is also a waste of time its like a nonblind person discusses with a blind person who never saw the sun how the sun looks like, u talk about a country and people whom you have never met or never went, probably u never met 1 Turk in your life and the only news you got from Turkey were this kind of negative propoganda movies,You should read the subjects I wrote first, and besides believe what u want :) I dont want to waste my time to a totally ignorant person.
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 Anyone reading these comments would conclude that YOU are the ignorant person. You offer no facts, no evidence. You offer only opinion. You say I'm blind because I have never been to Turkey...that's utterly ridiculous and evasive. I do know Turks. I know 17 of them. 12 Christian, 5 Muslim. I read books. I read news from various sources. I AM NOT uneducated in these matters. But apparently you are, because you offer absolutely no substance to this discussion, only uninformed opinion
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
Discrimination exist in every country and every society, it also happens between people with the same ethnic group or religion, But there is no mass discrimination of the Christians by the Turkish state or the muslims of Turkey in Turkey, thats the idea this propoganda movie wants to give, Turkey has hundreds of churches, an christian minority existing since more than 1000 years, every year millions of western tourists visiting, In fact Turkey had freedom of religion before the West.
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 3..Muslims pretend that they allow non-muslims to co-exist peacefully. Yes, it may be peaceful, but it is NOT pleasant. In the United States (i mean in the past), Blacks co-existed with Whites peacefully, but blacks were discriminated against horribly and did NOT have the same rights as Whites. In kind, the dhimmi class in muslim lands DO live peacefully in those lands, but they live under discrimination and do not have the same rights as muslims. To deny this is to deny history
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj First of all you dont know anything about Turkey, if you would have actually went to Turkey and had seen the reality all your prejudices would dissapear, But I dont know but probably ur entire image of Turkey is this kind of propoganda movies and negative news in the media, then u have such an wrong image of Turkey. But probably you will never realise this.
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 I have never seen a dinosaur either. And I never fought in the Civil War. But through education, research, and the reports of experts, I know quite a lot about those topics. So if you want to avoid the facts by hiding behind the insignificant detail that I've never been to turkey go right ahead. Hide, like a coward. But there are so many books and news reports and 117,575 Turkish CHristians in NYC that I needn't be in Turkey to assess the truth of the TUrkish muslim culture.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj Muslims always gave religous freedom , read about the Umayyad caliphate in Spain, 5 centuries muslims lived together, But when catholic christian spain finished the reconquista in 1492.
Religious freedom ended everybody in Spain was forced to become catholic all Jews and Muslims, who didnt convert was killed or had to leave, most muslims pretended that they converted but secretly remained muslims. But in 1609 Spain still exiled all christians from muslim ancestry, learn...
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 You keep saying stupid things like "Christians and muslims lived together" but that isn't in dispute. What is in dispute is the conditions under which Muslims and Christians lived together. Christians only lived under muslim rule under extreme conditions, under extreme discrimination, having to abide by rules that ONLY applied to dhimmis (non-muslim population). You keep suggesting they lived together in harmony but that is a BLATANT distortion of history. That makes you a liar.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj Muslims (and especially in Turkey) never treated other religions the same behaviour that was shown to the Blacks in America, Your very ignorant denying the 1000 years tolerance muslim Turks showed, everybody lived like brothers, muslim families and christians lived in the same village, shared everything, many Christians became rich and owned businesses lived in larger houses then their muslim neighbours, phanariots Armenian Greek Traders, Jews, ur so ignorant learn learn...
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 Oh really? Wikipedia: "In modern Turkey, the Istanbul pogrom was a state-sponsored and state-orchestrated pogrom that compelled Greek Christians to leave Istanbul, the first Christian city in violation to the Treaty of Lausanne (see Istanbul Pogrom). The issue of Christian genocides by the Turks may become a problem, since Turkey wishes to join the European Union." The record of things like this is a mile long. Maybe I know more about Turkey than you do.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@Nickname997 "Persecution of Christians has continued in modern Turkey. On 5 February 2006, the Catholic priest Andrea Santoro was murdered in Trabzon by a student influenced by the reactions following the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy. On 18 April 2007, 3 Christians were murdered in the bible publishing firm in Malatya. In December 2007, Adriano Franchini, a catholic priest, was stabbed in the stomach after Sunday mass. Franchini led the church of the Virgin Mary in Ephesus."
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj 7.There is no persecution of christians in Turkey, those murders were comitted by 5 individuals, millions of christians continue their daily life, in every country in the world there are instances of racist or religious motivated killings, incidents do not mean the rule, the number of christians killed the last 10 years isnt more than 10. Muslims and all non muslims live(d) in peace and as neighbours,friends, go ask christian people from Turkey if u dont believe.man ur stupid!
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 " the number of christians killed the last 10 years isnt more than 10." Really? According to to the facts, there have been more than 10 religiously motivated killings of Christians in the last TWO years. Such killings speak to the culture of a nation. In a country where a religion is discriminated against by the laws of that country, it sets a tone. It sets an atmosphere, it sets a culture. Murders of Christians is the result of that culture
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@Nickname997 Finally, as there are numerous reports such as this one which mar Turkey's history. This has been going on for countless years, it is not new behavior, and the historical record of Christians fleeing Turkey prove it (One of my best friends is Turkish Orthodox Christian whose family fled Turkey). Your lies and your ignorance do not work on me.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj Historical record of Christians fleeing Turkey, that is such a big joke. CHRISTIANS HAVE NEVER FLED FROM TURKEY, why? because they all always lived very comfortably, I think your Turkish orthodox friends family only went to (USA?) to earn more money and the story of persecution they just lied to gain sympathy from the people there, while in reality itwas only for economic reasons,
If this is not true then tell me what kind of persecution did they face I am very curious.
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 Obviously not all Christians flee turkey. Istambul still has CHristians in it. Although, as Turkish records indicate, the Christian population went form 50% to 1% LOL. And across the whole of Turkey, many--though not all--Christians HISTORICALLY FLEE THE COUNTRY as soon as they are able. In NYC alone there are ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOODS full of Christian Turks who fled turkey. This is part of YOUR history, and you're either lying when you deny it, or you're just that damn ignorant.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj 6.Istanbul was conquered in 1453, Turkish muslims gave religious freedom to everybody, many christians and Jews settled there and lived together in peace for 500 years, most of the non muslims were more wealth than the muslim. Istanbul is full with churches and synagogues, christian cemeteries and schools, many of them built under Turkish rule. The Istanbul pogroms had a nationalistic reason conflict with greece, and it is the exception not the rule of the Turkish period.
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 The Istambul pogroms completely defeat the root of your argument, because you are arguing that Christians and Muslims have lived in peace inTurkey for 500 years. And I have warned you before to stop using terms like "freedom" if you don't know what freedom means. Do you deny that there are laws in Turkey that restrict or inhibit the practice of non-muslim religions. Do you deny this, yes or no???
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@Nickname997 Also, I want you to provide me with historic evidence of this alleged 19th century massacre of Muslims so that I can study your source and respond (or yield). One last thing: have you taken the time to research how many religiously motivated killings there were in Turkey in the past 10 years? The violence of muslims against Christians may surprise you. Yet you'll never see a report of a Christian detonating a bomb in a mosque or a Catholic stabbing an Imam to death.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj Historic evidence,read this book (Death and Exile of Ottoman Muslims), by justin Mccarty, read the Dashnak plans for great Armenia, Greek invasion of Turkey in 1918, read the Balkan wars in 1912, the millions of muslims refugees, the wars Russia made ethnically cleansing Muslims.The exile of Circassians by the Russians, the Treaty of Sevres forced to Turkey by the Imperialist west, and the puppets of them were the christian minority who had lived in wealth and religious freedom.
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 This book is in reference to Ethnic cleansing perpetrated BY muslims against other muslims, as well as by the Soviet Union, which had nothing to do with Christianity in the least. It was about imperialism territorialism and ethnic conflict. And in case you don't know, Islam is not an ethnicity. This book does not support your argument at all.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj The violent killings of the christians in the last years is protested by all the Turkish people and media and the murderers are all in prison. In the last 10 years If I am not wrong less then 20 christians were killed by a group of less then 20 muslims, the population of Turkey is 70 million, it has 200,000 christians and every year 10 million western tourists come, and the last years 10thousands of germans and english bought houses and live in Turkey,learn the reality.
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 Your country's population demographic does not speak to your argument. The number of Christian tourists to Turkey does not speak to your argument. The issue at hand is Turkey does not treat Christians the same way Muslims are treated in Turkey. I have supplied mounds of evidence to support my argument. Details, facts, historical evidence. You have provided distortions of history, blind accusations of my ignorance, and you have provided NO HISTORICAL RECORD to support your claim.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj Western news is always biased and makes sysytematic propoganda against muslims, christians in northern Ireland fought for years, You yourself may be surprised how many Muslim have been killed by the christian west in the last years, In the first weeks of the invasion of Iraq 20,000 people died from bombing, Usa dropped 2 atomic bombs and killled 150,000 in 10 seconds in japan. each day western aircraft targets civilian homes in Afghanistan, hundreds ofwomen and children die,
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 Why do muslims always dismiss the truth as propaganda? Would you call TV shows depicting Jews killing Christian children to use their blood in Matzo "propaganda" ? Because that's the programming airing on Muslim TV as we speak. You can actually find it on YouTube. Would you call reports of 10,000 people dying in the world trade center "propaganda"? That's what Arab TV reported for years after 9-11. I don't think you have a very good eye/ear for what propaganda really is.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@Nickname997 After some research I have found a few things. Istambul was 50% Christian up to 1914. Today it is less than 1% Christian. Catholic Church is not legally recognized in Turkey. There are laws restricting ownership of property by non-muslims. They cannot build places of worship or run seminaries or train clerics. Freedom House lists Turkey as "Partly Free" All other EU members or candidates for entry are listed as "Free". The more I research, the more ridiculous your claims appear.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj Istanbul was conquered by Turks in 1453, they gave religous freedom to everbyody, 500 years later the population was 50% because of tolerance, but they later left for nationalistic reasons, Greece had a very large muslim population, Athens had many Ottoman mosques now they are churches or used for other purpose, the story has 2 sides you know. greece got an immigrant muslim population the last 30 years, but 100 years ago greece was 20% native muslim now 0,1%, of total population
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 First of all your argument goes to dust as soon as you admit that Turks "conquered" Constantinople (Istambul). Because--as history records it--the Turks were never attacked by Constantinople, and were never provoked to war. So your argument is already defeated by your own admission. Second of all...
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj 1.Europeans colonised america and the entire world killing millions of natives and destroying their culture, muslim Turks never did this. 2. There is totally freedom in Turkey, all religions have their own temples, churches, shools, cemetaries, national holidays, newspapers, 3. Christian Turks live in total peace and freedom, and have equal rights,4. Turkey isnot an Arab country or Afghanistan,5. Turkey has always been an ally of Usa and is a secular country.
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 1. Europeans have nothing to do with this argument. And your statistics are inflated to the point of being deceptive. Europeans didn't kill millions, and they didn't destroy their culture. 3. Christian turks live in peace, and under the oppression of laws written specifically to restrict Christians from being in the same class as Muslims. Again, you have yet to refute that with fact. You offer only opinions.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@Nickname997 ...Second of all, stop trying to fool people with your twisted use of words like "Freedom" and "Tolerance". Religious "freedom" means people are allowed to practice their religion without tax, without special rules, and without discrimination. This type of freedom NEVER existed in Turkey. As such, you cannot legitimately claim "tolerance" either. Yes, Christians can practice their religion "freely" in Turkey, but not without institutionalized discrimination.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj Turkey has many laws regarding to foreigners, may countries in the world have those, Turkeys neighbours are christian states with whom they had a lot of wars, their secret or open goal is to destroy Turkey, so Turkey controls missionary activity and foreign ownership, But all the christian neighbours of Turkey have the same laws, Athens doesnt even has one official mosque while Istanul has more than 100 churches but Greece will never be criticized, but Turkey will, the prejudice
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 We aren't talking about foreigners here. We're talking about Christian TURKS. So stop trying to deflect. Nowhere in the world do Muslims live under the same institutionalized oppression that Christians experience in Muslim countries INCLUDING Turkey. And none of these facts are disputable.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj Listen you have never been to Turkey you know nothing about Turkey you are very prejudiced and incredibly ignorant and still you think you know everything, most what you said is just bullshit, first of all learn history and read books. And then think. You are just a brainwashed islamophobe who doesnt know anything only but selective propoganda.
The simple reality is christians- muslims live in total peace in Turkey, what you yourself believe isnt the reality but only fantasy.
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 I'm not an islamophobe. I actually had profound respect for Islam until I began studying it, and studying its history and looking into modern islam and modern islamic culture. So to call me ignorant, stupid, or to call my opinions "bullshit" is evasive and cowardly. You, on the other hand, offer no substantiation to your claims, which makes YOUR claims bullshit, since you fail to back them up with facts.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
@themacdaddytj Dude I said go to Turkey, so u can see the reality, because one visit would destroy more of your prejudices than hundreds of books,movie, news,talks
Dude you can believe what you want, maybe one day you will understand the reality
maybe....... or you will live your entire life brainwashed with prejudice,
I dont care..... I tried to explain......bye.....
Nickname997 6 months ago
@Nickname997 I don't have to BE in Turkey to know that there are laws discriminating against christians. I don't have to be in Turkey to know that these discriminatory laws coincide with the Quran, and Islamic History. I'm sure Turkey isn't some hell hole where Christians are hunted down like animals. I'm not suggesting that. What I'm stating is that in practice Christians do not get the same treatment as muslims in turkey, and such discrimination is the norm.
themacdaddytj 6 months ago
NO turkey in community Europe fuck islam .
cruzade100 1 year ago
Turkey wants to enter christian Europe....
uboot1967 1 year ago
God Bless Turkey. I know God has a purpose in this beautiful country. let's pray for christians in turkey, and not only to them, but to all of the pple around the world
nikking07 1 year ago
Turkey was established in 1923, for 11 centuries before that was a Christian country in fact Christianity was born out of this area. Take a look at the ancient Churches that pre date the invasion of the Ottoman Mongolians in 1400s. St. Sofia church was a church until it was converted to a mosque today it is a museum and the town changed from Constaniople to Istanbul. To be a Christian in Turkey is risking your life.
Americathebrave100 1 year ago
I Think that Muslim countries only kill other Christians because they dont want their population to go down, what kind of religion kills and throws people in jail for being another religion? Christianity's god loves you for who you are and gives you free choices! and will! Islam is the mot brutal religion. GOD BLESS YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST!
brownberry20 1 year ago 2
Erdogan = IHH = Hamas = AL Qaeda are all terrorists! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!
TheAzzo27 1 year ago
save christians in turkey
ArameansIraq 1 year ago
Robert Morrison was a missionary who first translated Bible into Chinese. But BIG problem - his justification to enter China was as employee for British East Indies Company, biggest smuggler of opium into China. Eastern nations legitimately fear spies of West who claim to be missionaries! Religious freedom is one thing, but if Human Rights is often used as excuse to violate Int'l Sovereignty - a country's right to self rule. Why not Animal Rights = Human Rights = Civil Rights? Should be same!
OnePeopleOneChina 2 years ago
@OnePeopleOneChina
Actually China has nothing to fear from Christianity. Jesus paid taxes and his followers to do so. the new Testament clearly states that Christians are to be good citizens.
As for spies from the West well I can't say nothing about that.
crazy4jesus63 1 year ago
@crazy4jesus63 I agree - China has nothing to fear from TRUE Christians, but every country must be watchful of foreigners who masquerade as missionaries, etc....
OnePeopleOneChina 1 year ago
@crazy4jesus63 By the way, I'm not accusing Morrison of being evil. Given Britain had no trade with China, Morrison perhaps had no other reason or justification to be in China, so he took what opportunity he could. The British East Indies Co was implementing evil deeds, so Morrison was judged by the company he kept!
OnePeopleOneChina 1 year ago
@OnePeopleOneChina
I think in order for Chinese Church to survive they must train their own citizens to be missionaries
That way the Govt won't think that it is some western ploy to infiltrate China
That is what happens all over the world I mean Korean Churches are run by Koreans so are the few churches that exist in Japan run by Japanese.
crazy4jesus63 1 year ago
Probably due to the primitive nature of Turko-Mongolian civilization, Turkey is the only Muslim country that has no tolerance toward any other religions.
As a matter of fact, Turks have only been in Anatolia ("Turkey", as called today) for about 600 or 700 years. Constantinople ("Istanbul" as called today) has only fell to Turks' hands since 1453. What a pity!
AntiDefm 2 years ago