That's a good point. The atheist argument ultimately boils down to nothing more that a personal disinclination to SUBMIT to God's Will. Or in other words, it boils down to sheer spite. Atheists have to level with themselves: No more pretense to intellectual superiority, as all that pretense is just over-compensation for what amounts to a character problem. They're rebellious.
@MyFriendLeonard1 Your argument against atheism is very basic and unsophisticated. You clearly have not conversed with enough people to understand the different belief structures and how they develop. For someone to be rebellious they first have to admit that there is in fact an existing authority. What atheists claim is that there is no divine authority; therefore they cannot actually rebel against what does not exist. What would be the purpose of rebelling? And you left me hanging last time.
@AtomicKinetic12 You want to talk sophisticated? Then tell me what are the foundations of rationalism.
In my experience, about 1% of atheists know the answer to that question. And of that 1%, exactly none have ever grasped what it entails - in regard to authority indeed.
That said, I can't keep one atheist straight from another, as all you guys sound alike. Just blathering. Twitty. Dull.
Show me you know what rationalism really amounts to. And then explain why a theist needs to answer to it.
@MyFriendLeonard1 How else do you plan on acquiring knowledge and communicating it if not by way of reason. What would you consider to be a more effective way of acquiring knowledge when dealing with the topic of theism? Is it divine revelation? Some special form of intuition? What are the limitations of reason and how have you overcome those limitations? You speak about diving into the experience of god; elaborate on what you mean.
@AtomicKinetic12 This is what kills me about atheists. You barge into discussions about God. And it turns out you don't have a single clue in regard to the subject at hand. We got to defer to your terms. Answer your questions. Kiss your bottoms. Lick your boots. But it always turns out that you need schooling on the subject at even the most elementary level. Why don't you just give up? Why do you bother with this topic? If you find it so difficult, then just drop it and go ride your skateboard.
@MyFriendLeonard1 You seem to be an expert at stalling and diverting attention. It is most wise to ask YOU the individual that I am conversing with to define HIS terms so that I may converse with you effectively so that we don't talk past each other. # 1) I'm a philosophy student with a great deal of knowledge pertaining to theology and metaphysics. # 2) I'm trying to be respectful and actually hear your side specifically. It would be a big mistake in assuming you speak for all theist.
@MyFriendLeonard1 ...cont. I have had many debates with different types of thinkers; theist and atheist. Not everyone has the same experience and perspective. So when I ask you a question simply answer it. That way we can move on. I'm not going to read you mind.
@MyFriendLeonard1 You've made multiple assertions without the slightest of clues as to what you are saying. And you continue to make ad hominem attacks without once addressing a single point I brought up. It should be very easy for you to explain away the things I've stated since you've had so many conversations before. You should be ready with a quick response pertaining to my arguments and not pertaining to how much you dislike atheist. Please forgive me if I find this to be cowardice.
@MyFriendLeonard1 I never identified myself as a rationalist; empiricist; foundationalist; or even an atheist. You have been conversing with yourself this whole time because you definitely haven't even bothered to address me or my points. And for someone who truly believes in God to state that another human being has no experience in the matter is quite odd. It would seem that we all have experience in the matter whether we admit to it or not. And whether we identify ourselves as theists or not
@AtomicKinetic12 I gather you're one of those who are always blameless. If any label is at all blameworthy, you eschew it. And so there you are, indefinable, free of all blame. What a wonder. So pristine as to be all a-glow, like God Himself. But the fact of the matter is that you're a rationalist and an atheist. But most of all, profoundly mixed-up and personally dishonest.
And before you whine about ad hominem attacks, let me go get my violin.
@MyFriendLeonard1 Dishonest about what? And what is it with blame that's so important to you? Forget about blaming me for anything and just speak on the topic at hand; which you have not said a single thing about. God is the topic.. so please do share how this "consciousness" takes place. I am a human being just like you; do you honestly believe that I will not be able to grasp what you say "billions" of other people do? My main point has always been about perspective and interpretation.
@AtomicKinetic12 Have you experienced God yet? What chance do you have of understanding anything a theist might explain to you if you have no experience in regard to the subject at hand?
Like every other atheist, large and small, you're ultimately just an idle troll, wasting everyone's time, including your own.
Go experience God. And if you hesitate, then you're no atheist. If you hesitate, then you know God exists but are scared to death of Him. And that makes you just a reprobate.
@MyFriendLeonard1 You just don't get it. What the heck does "go experience god" mean..? As if I can just turn on the god switch and have a go at it. Who takes that line seriously even among theists? I'm sure it's a bit more involved than that. Again your failure to even attempt to speak on the topic shows who is truly scared. If you had any confidence in yourself at all you would have expressed that level of "consciousness" in the best way you can. You are correct; time is being wasted on you.
@AtomicKinetic12 You can't live in this world, surrounded by theists, and not know. You're just playing dumb - because you're caught and scared.
If an atheist hesitates at all when challenged to experience God, then he in fact believes in God and is scared to death of Him. In which case, he's not an atheist but just a reprobate.
Now find me one atheist who won't hesitate but will actually go through - in earnest - with searching out the experience of God.
That's a good point. The atheist argument ultimately boils down to nothing more that a personal disinclination to SUBMIT to God's Will. Or in other words, it boils down to sheer spite. Atheists have to level with themselves: No more pretense to intellectual superiority, as all that pretense is just over-compensation for what amounts to a character problem. They're rebellious.
MyFriendLeonard1 4 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 Your argument against atheism is very basic and unsophisticated. You clearly have not conversed with enough people to understand the different belief structures and how they develop. For someone to be rebellious they first have to admit that there is in fact an existing authority. What atheists claim is that there is no divine authority; therefore they cannot actually rebel against what does not exist. What would be the purpose of rebelling? And you left me hanging last time.
AtomicKinetic12 4 months ago
@AtomicKinetic12 You want to talk sophisticated? Then tell me what are the foundations of rationalism.
In my experience, about 1% of atheists know the answer to that question. And of that 1%, exactly none have ever grasped what it entails - in regard to authority indeed.
That said, I can't keep one atheist straight from another, as all you guys sound alike. Just blathering. Twitty. Dull.
Show me you know what rationalism really amounts to. And then explain why a theist needs to answer to it.
MyFriendLeonard1 4 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 How else do you plan on acquiring knowledge and communicating it if not by way of reason. What would you consider to be a more effective way of acquiring knowledge when dealing with the topic of theism? Is it divine revelation? Some special form of intuition? What are the limitations of reason and how have you overcome those limitations? You speak about diving into the experience of god; elaborate on what you mean.
AtomicKinetic12 4 months ago
@AtomicKinetic12 This is what kills me about atheists. You barge into discussions about God. And it turns out you don't have a single clue in regard to the subject at hand. We got to defer to your terms. Answer your questions. Kiss your bottoms. Lick your boots. But it always turns out that you need schooling on the subject at even the most elementary level. Why don't you just give up? Why do you bother with this topic? If you find it so difficult, then just drop it and go ride your skateboard.
MyFriendLeonard1 4 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 You seem to be an expert at stalling and diverting attention. It is most wise to ask YOU the individual that I am conversing with to define HIS terms so that I may converse with you effectively so that we don't talk past each other. # 1) I'm a philosophy student with a great deal of knowledge pertaining to theology and metaphysics. # 2) I'm trying to be respectful and actually hear your side specifically. It would be a big mistake in assuming you speak for all theist.
AtomicKinetic12 4 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 ...cont. I have had many debates with different types of thinkers; theist and atheist. Not everyone has the same experience and perspective. So when I ask you a question simply answer it. That way we can move on. I'm not going to read you mind.
AtomicKinetic12 4 months ago
@AtomicKinetic12 The implication in what I've written so far is that rationalists aren't equipped to discusss God.
And now note I didn't say doctrine. I said God. The fundamental issue is God.
That said, you're not equipped to discuss doctrine either.
MyFriendLeonard1 4 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 You've made multiple assertions without the slightest of clues as to what you are saying. And you continue to make ad hominem attacks without once addressing a single point I brought up. It should be very easy for you to explain away the things I've stated since you've had so many conversations before. You should be ready with a quick response pertaining to my arguments and not pertaining to how much you dislike atheist. Please forgive me if I find this to be cowardice.
AtomicKinetic12 4 months ago
@AtomicKinetic12 The issue is God. And you have zero experience in this matter. But I'm the one who doesn't know what he's talking about.
And then you call yourself a rationalist.
I'm going to bed now, where I expect to sleep quite soundly. Goodnight. : )
MyFriendLeonard1 4 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 I never identified myself as a rationalist; empiricist; foundationalist; or even an atheist. You have been conversing with yourself this whole time because you definitely haven't even bothered to address me or my points. And for someone who truly believes in God to state that another human being has no experience in the matter is quite odd. It would seem that we all have experience in the matter whether we admit to it or not. And whether we identify ourselves as theists or not
AtomicKinetic12 4 months ago
@AtomicKinetic12 I gather you're one of those who are always blameless. If any label is at all blameworthy, you eschew it. And so there you are, indefinable, free of all blame. What a wonder. So pristine as to be all a-glow, like God Himself. But the fact of the matter is that you're a rationalist and an atheist. But most of all, profoundly mixed-up and personally dishonest.
And before you whine about ad hominem attacks, let me go get my violin.
MyFriendLeonard1 4 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 Dishonest about what? And what is it with blame that's so important to you? Forget about blaming me for anything and just speak on the topic at hand; which you have not said a single thing about. God is the topic.. so please do share how this "consciousness" takes place. I am a human being just like you; do you honestly believe that I will not be able to grasp what you say "billions" of other people do? My main point has always been about perspective and interpretation.
AtomicKinetic12 4 months ago
@AtomicKinetic12 Have you experienced God yet? What chance do you have of understanding anything a theist might explain to you if you have no experience in regard to the subject at hand?
Like every other atheist, large and small, you're ultimately just an idle troll, wasting everyone's time, including your own.
Go experience God. And if you hesitate, then you're no atheist. If you hesitate, then you know God exists but are scared to death of Him. And that makes you just a reprobate.
MyFriendLeonard1 3 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 You just don't get it. What the heck does "go experience god" mean..? As if I can just turn on the god switch and have a go at it. Who takes that line seriously even among theists? I'm sure it's a bit more involved than that. Again your failure to even attempt to speak on the topic shows who is truly scared. If you had any confidence in yourself at all you would have expressed that level of "consciousness" in the best way you can. You are correct; time is being wasted on you.
AtomicKinetic12 3 months ago
@AtomicKinetic12 You can't live in this world, surrounded by theists, and not know. You're just playing dumb - because you're caught and scared.
If an atheist hesitates at all when challenged to experience God, then he in fact believes in God and is scared to death of Him. In which case, he's not an atheist but just a reprobate.
Now find me one atheist who won't hesitate but will actually go through - in earnest - with searching out the experience of God.
You're all just reprobates.
MyFriendLeonard1 3 months ago