Well lets see. Just a quick Google can get you all kinds of info. But Ill let you do most of the work on your own, which you wont of course, because Google isnt sanctioned by the LDS leaders, is it?
JS knew about the chances of a pending war and that South Carolina was THE biggest rebellion even back then. The entire Country knew it. It was being discussed in news papers in the towns all around him!
The reason her children asked her not to speak to her gr.children about the Church was because she would have been a very negative influence on them. I understand perfectly. This very misled lady said that she was not your normal kid/person growing up...she was a bit rebellious and didn't like to be told what to do. I understand perfectly how Pride can come before a Fall. It's a shame, I feel sorry for her as she seems ok otherwise.
Attacking the messenger is something which does not fly dear defender. It is a sign that the attacker has nothing with which to counter the claims. If Mormonism is real, then the evidence would be there in spades to support such. If Mormonism was the truth, such would be self evident, there would be no need for apologetics and obfuscation to make Mormonism true, it would just be so.
Perhaps a perusal of a Mormon run site will better aid you in your studies, MormonThink d o t c o m.
@Exmormon: But that's what people like you and Emmitt do..."attack the messenger (Joseph Smith). The Holy Ghost is available for all as a witness of the Truth. This is a great blessing to all.
No, we have evidence to support our claims, you do not. Let's take another tack on this, if Smith is a prophet as you claim, then certainly his prophecies have come true correct? Which have come true and how many did not? Does he run greater than a statistical 50/50 (coin toss) average in his prophecies? If you investigate this, you will see that Smith failed miserably in his abilities to prophecy about anything. Please research.
@Exmormon: Prophesying is not a game of how many come to pass or not. What true prophets prophesy about come true, period... whether it's a dire warning to the ppl abt pending destruction (unless they repent and get their lives in order) or of other future events, personal or for the population. Did you know that Smith prophesied the Revolution war in America, and that it would begin in the South?
I'm afraid you are not adhering to the "standard' of what a prophet is according to your own scriptures, please see Deut 18:21-22,Matt 7:15-20, Ezek 12:21-28, D&C 1:37. According to the last scripture, "shall all be fulfilled." If even one remains unfulfilled, then this also is a false prophecy." So I'm afraid it IS about how many he got right. And no, he did not prophecy about the CIVIL WAR and get it right. It's very easy to do prophecy in reverse.
The so called "civil war" prophecy was something Smith brought forth when there was a great amount of contemporary discussion about succession and the Southern desire to do so in the press & public square. Soon after he made his "prophecy," it was forgotten and only later was it added back to his collection once the war had begun as a "sign" that Smith was indeed a prophet. Hindsight prophecy is nothing new, people do it with Nostradamus all the time too, and he wasn't a prophet either.
Perhaps a perusal of the following article on Smith's prophecies will give you a better understanding about Smith's abilities as a prophet. The article can be found here:
packham d o t n4m d o t o r g (backslash) prophet d o t h t m
(you'll have to enter the info manually due to link posting restrictions on Youtube)
Uh...did you mean the CIVIL was, Yung? That was was brewing the entire time old Joe was making up his religion, dude. There was nothing important about what he said, it was on it's way for years and the entire country was talking about it. Secession was beiing rallied for for many years before the actual CIVIL war happened. Read a book, lady.
@kackyful: Wrong, sorry. Let's consider the details that Smith accurately predicted: 1. The war would begin with the rebellion of South Carolina. 2. It would cause the death and misery of many souls. 3. The Southern States would be divided against the Northern States.4. The Southern States would call upon other nations for assistance, even upon the nation of Great Britain. 5. Great Britain would call upon other nations for assistance. 6. War would eventually be poured out upon all nations.
@kackyful: "We have in our possession a pamphlet, published at Liverpool, in 1851.... In view of our present troubles, (the raging War) this prediction seems to be in progress of fulfillment, whether Joe Smith was a humbug or not.... Have we not had a prophet among us?" (Philadelphia Sunday Mercury after the outbreak of the Civil War. Clipping in Journal History, 5 May 1861.)
@kackyful: Further, while speaking in Ramus, Illinois, on April 2, 1843, Joseph said: "I prophesy, in the name of the Lord God, that the commencement of the difficulties which will cause much bloodshed previous to the coming of the Son of Man will be in South Carolina. (And it did) It may probably arise through the slave question. (And it did) (And it did) This a voice declared to me, while I was praying earnestly on the subject, December 25th, 1832." (See Doctrine and Covenants 130:12-13.)
@kackyful: "While there had been tensions between the South & the North, including talk of secession, hardly anyone seriously thought that civil war would erupt. Americans had great faith in their nation & in democracy. In fact, there were members of the Church who were so shaken by the "ridiculous" nature of Joseph's civil war prophecy... the many specific details of his prophecy suggest that more than reason & guesswork were needed to be so accurate."
@kackyful: "Beginning in the 1830s, LDS missionaries carried manuscript copies of the above revelation with them in their missionary journeys, and "frequently read it to their congregations in various parts of the United States" (Roberts, p. 315). The entire revelation was printed in 1851 in Liverpool, England, in a pamphlet entitled, "The Pearl of Great Price." This was a decade before the first shot of the Civil War on April 12, 1861." Cont:
@kackyful Thus, the prediction was made 28 years before its fulfillment, and was printed and circulated in England and in the United States at least ten years before.
My lord, would you do some research? I understand that your Mormons and "know" the truth, we too were once so damned ignorant too. I really don't want to keep this going because ultimately it is absurd and you have nothing on which to stand, especially when you offer nothing other than the regurgitated Mormon pablum of which we as former Mormons are well aware. So let's go through this shall we?
Can any person rightfully claim prophetic abilities if they predict unrest in the Middle East in the future? I think not.
Along the same lines, I think it is quite clear from historical records that unrest was already brewing regarding slavery in Joseph Smith's time. Joseph Smith made his South Carolina "revelation" (D&C 87) on 12/25/1832.
Do you think that the nullification convention held in November 1832 by South Carolina may have had an influence on Joseph Smith's prediction? I think so.
In November 1832 a South Carolina delegation defiantly nullified the federal 1828 and 1832 tarriffs. South Carolina immediately prepared for a military showdown with the federal government. South Carolina regiments were organized and volunteers were gathered together to fight the federal government. The issue was temporarily diffused with the compromise of 1833, but the tension was only postponed. (Secret and Sacred, The Diaries of James Hummond, a Southern Slaveholder, edited by Carol Bleser)
So history speaks to us quite clearly. Joseph Smith's so called revelation was made on the heals of one of the biggest signs to the country that a civil war was evident. A State within the Union had nullified federal law and even prepared its people for war against the Union. Do Mormons consider this information when reviewing Doctrine and Covenants 87? I think not.
Yes, Smith predicted that the northern & southern states were going to be at war and the rebellion would begin in South Carolina.
BUT this is not at all surprising when one looks at the facts. At the exact same time that South Carolina was preparing for war against the federal government in 1832, Joseph Smith made his prediction.
Smith was not a prophet, despite your religion's lame attempts at spin. Perhaps you need more help in this are as it is aparent you're not going to study these issues yourself. Let's list a few more "prophecies" shall we?
SALE OF BOOK OF MORMON COPYRIGHT: Winter 1829-1830. Comp Hist 1:165 Joseph had a revelation that Hiram Page and Oliver Cowdery were to go to Toronto to sell the copyright of the Book of Mormon to raise money.
FULFILLMENT: They went, according to the revelation, but were completely unsuccessful. Joseph Smith "inquired of God" and was told that some "revelations" are not from God. David Whitmer reports this incident in his book An Address To All Believers In Christ, Richmond, 1887, photo reprinting by Utah Lighthouse Ministry, pp 30-31.
So how can one tell if a revelation is not of god? Apparently Smith didn't know either.
FAR WEST TEMPLE: April 26, 1838. D&C 115. Revelation concerning the city of Far West, Missouri, and the building of a temple there. God commands the temple to be built; the church will be gathered to Zion (Missouri), which will be "for a defense, and for a refuge from the storm." Work on the temple is to commence in the summer of 1838, with construction to begin April 26, 1839, with work to continue "diligently until it shall be finished, ..
from the corner stone thereof unto the top thereof, until there shall not anything remain that is not finished." (v. 12) Verse 17: "I say unto you, it is my will that the city of Far West should be built up speedily by the gathering of my saints."
FULFILLMENT: The temple cornerstone was laid, but no more work was ever done and the temple is still not completed. Far West was abandoned by the Mormons soon after this revelation.
ICE SHALL FLOW: Nov 3, 1831. D&C 133:26. Those "who are in the north countries... shall smite the rocks, and the ice shall flow down at their presence."
FULFILLMENT: The church has made no claim that this prophecy has been fulfilled. Besides, what does it mean?
NATIONS SHALL TREMBLE: Nov 3, 1831. D&C 133:42 "...all nations shall tremble at thy presence." FULFILLMENT: No one can claim that all nations tremble at the presence of the Mormons.
ENEMIES WILL BE SHAMED: Dec 1, 1831. D&C 71:7-10 Mormons are to call upon their enemies to meet them both in public and in private, & the shame of their enemies shall be made manifest. "No weapon that is formed against you shall prosper."
FULFILLMENT: The Mormons are generally reluctant to discuss their religion with anyone but prospective converts, but when they have been willing to meet with their critics & debate, they have not been particularly able to make their opponents' shame manifest.
NEW YORK WILL BE DESTROYED: Sept 22-23, 1832. D&C 84:114-115. New York, Albany and Boston will be destroyed if they reject the gospel. The "hour of their judgment is nigh..."
FULFILLMENT: Newell K. Whitney and Joseph Smith went to New York, Albany, and Boston and preached there. These cities did not accept the gospel. They have not been destroyed.
MORMON DEBTS WILL BE PAID: April 23, 1834. D&C 104: 78-83. God's promise to deliver the Saints from their debts. "It is my will that you shall pay all your debts." The Lord will soften the hearts of their creditors.
FULFILLMENT: Joseph Smith and other prominent Mormons had to flee Kirtland to avoid their creditors, leaving debts of thousands of dollars unpaid. Smith ultimately filed bankruptcy.
SALEM, MASS., WILL BELONG TO MORMONS: Aug 6, 1836. D&C 111. J. Smith received a revelation telling him to go to Salem, Mass. This section is the revelation given to him when he and his companions had arrived there. It promises that they would receive the city and "have power over it" and "its wealth pertaining to gold and silver" should be theirs.
FULFILLMENT: J. Smith returned in Sept. to Kirtland. Neither he nor the Mormons ever had power over the city, nor did they receive its gold & silver.
KIRTLAND LAND INVESTORS WILL BE RICH: April 1837. LDS Mess & Adv Apr 1837 p 488 "This place [Kirtland, Ohio] must be built up, and will be built up, and every brother that will take hold and help secure and discharge these [land] contracts shall be rich."
FULFILLMENT: Nobody became rich investing in Kirtland land contracts. Most of those involved in the Kirtland land speculation, encouraged by Joseph Smith, lost money. Joseph Smith himself went bankrupt and had to flee his creditors.
I just goes on an on like this through the entire litany of Smith's "prophecies." The man could not prophecy his way out of a paper bag, but it did get him into the pants of elven married women, a few teenagers (one of which was my relative) and others for a total of 34 "wives" on record, but I'm sure there were even more.
On that note, you may also want to research into why Smith was bedding 16yr old Fanny Alger out in his Barn in 1833 (the Mormon Church claims her as his first plural wife) when Smith supposedly did not get the keys from Elijah in the Kirtland Temple and thus "heavenly sanction" to do so until April 3, 1836.
Uh oh! "Uh, Kolob? We have a problem."
Please for the love of sanity, research. I'm not going to continue this absurd discussion with you if you're not going to research.
When I see a person like her I'm confirmed in my observation that some people are just BORN with an extra urge toward integrity. They simply CANNOT abide a lie or an inconsistency. They refuse to pull the rug over it.
It's just such people who leave religion as they become adults--no matter how devout their upbringing....
She lied again!...at the start of this video she said that there were no witnesses to the gold plates/the Book of Mormon but there were 11 witnesses who saw and/or felt the gold plates and they signed a document to this effect. This is common knowledge to many people. You can read their testimonies in the beginning of the Book. Go to ldschurchdotcom and check it out for yourself. Also, it is not a record of the Jews but are a branch of Joseph of Egypt's descendants... of the House of Israel. : )
Umm, I'm afraid you're just repeating the Mormon line which you have been told was the "truth." Why did Martin Harris over the pulpit of the Kirtland Temple state that they (the witnesses) did not see the plates with their physical eyes, but rather with the "eyes of their understanding" which in the vernacular of the day meant "imagination." There's much out there to learn in Mormon history. Please research, it simply is not what it claims to be.
@Exmormon: If you are truly an exmo, then you'd know without a doubt that the written testimonies of the 11 witnesses exist and are in the beginning of the Book of Mormon. Shame on you.!
Yes spritboy, I'm aware of the testimonies on the cover page. But they are irrelevant especially when you understand that they did not write those testimonies, Smith did, and some of them were quite reluctant to have their names on the document. You need to research. You are trying to play a game of defense without any evidence to do so. But according to your logic, one should believe the witness testimonies of James Strang and his "Book of the Law of the Lord?" Replete with plates? Research.
@Yunginspirit: There is considerable information about this issue, if you care to research it. Toward the end of their lives, those witnesses (most of whom had left the church--or be kicked out), reluctantly admitted (to journalist interviewers) that they "saw" the plates with "spiritual vision," and not physically, in reality.
Essentially....they "made believe" in their own minds that they had seen them.
Well lets see. Just a quick Google can get you all kinds of info. But Ill let you do most of the work on your own, which you wont of course, because Google isnt sanctioned by the LDS leaders, is it?
JS knew about the chances of a pending war and that South Carolina was THE biggest rebellion even back then. The entire Country knew it. It was being discussed in news papers in the towns all around him!
kackyful 1 year ago
@kackyful - I did already. I got the main details to you, now it's up to you to further investigate to get to the truth. : )
Smith's first prophesy was 28yrs prior to the Civil war.
Yunginspirit 1 year ago
The reason her children asked her not to speak to her gr.children about the Church was because she would have been a very negative influence on them. I understand perfectly. This very misled lady said that she was not your normal kid/person growing up...she was a bit rebellious and didn't like to be told what to do. I understand perfectly how Pride can come before a Fall. It's a shame, I feel sorry for her as she seems ok otherwise.
Yunginspirit 1 year ago
Attacking the messenger is something which does not fly dear defender. It is a sign that the attacker has nothing with which to counter the claims. If Mormonism is real, then the evidence would be there in spades to support such. If Mormonism was the truth, such would be self evident, there would be no need for apologetics and obfuscation to make Mormonism true, it would just be so.
Perhaps a perusal of a Mormon run site will better aid you in your studies, MormonThink d o t c o m.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
@Exmormon: But that's what people like you and Emmitt do..."attack the messenger (Joseph Smith). The Holy Ghost is available for all as a witness of the Truth. This is a great blessing to all.
Yunginspirit 1 year ago
@Yunginspirit
No, we have evidence to support our claims, you do not. Let's take another tack on this, if Smith is a prophet as you claim, then certainly his prophecies have come true correct? Which have come true and how many did not? Does he run greater than a statistical 50/50 (coin toss) average in his prophecies? If you investigate this, you will see that Smith failed miserably in his abilities to prophecy about anything. Please research.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
@Exmormon: Prophesying is not a game of how many come to pass or not. What true prophets prophesy about come true, period... whether it's a dire warning to the ppl abt pending destruction (unless they repent and get their lives in order) or of other future events, personal or for the population. Did you know that Smith prophesied the Revolution war in America, and that it would begin in the South?
Yunginspirit 1 year ago
I'm afraid you are not adhering to the "standard' of what a prophet is according to your own scriptures, please see Deut 18:21-22,Matt 7:15-20, Ezek 12:21-28, D&C 1:37. According to the last scripture, "shall all be fulfilled." If even one remains unfulfilled, then this also is a false prophecy." So I'm afraid it IS about how many he got right. And no, he did not prophecy about the CIVIL WAR and get it right. It's very easy to do prophecy in reverse.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
The so called "civil war" prophecy was something Smith brought forth when there was a great amount of contemporary discussion about succession and the Southern desire to do so in the press & public square. Soon after he made his "prophecy," it was forgotten and only later was it added back to his collection once the war had begun as a "sign" that Smith was indeed a prophet. Hindsight prophecy is nothing new, people do it with Nostradamus all the time too, and he wasn't a prophet either.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
Perhaps a perusal of the following article on Smith's prophecies will give you a better understanding about Smith's abilities as a prophet. The article can be found here:
packham d o t n4m d o t o r g (backslash) prophet d o t h t m
(you'll have to enter the info manually due to link posting restrictions on Youtube)
Smith was no prophet, not even close.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
Uh...did you mean the CIVIL was, Yung? That was was brewing the entire time old Joe was making up his religion, dude. There was nothing important about what he said, it was on it's way for years and the entire country was talking about it. Secession was beiing rallied for for many years before the actual CIVIL war happened. Read a book, lady.
kackyful 1 year ago
@kackyful: Wrong, sorry. Let's consider the details that Smith accurately predicted: 1. The war would begin with the rebellion of South Carolina. 2. It would cause the death and misery of many souls. 3. The Southern States would be divided against the Northern States.4. The Southern States would call upon other nations for assistance, even upon the nation of Great Britain. 5. Great Britain would call upon other nations for assistance. 6. War would eventually be poured out upon all nations.
Yunginspirit 1 year ago
@kackyful: "We have in our possession a pamphlet, published at Liverpool, in 1851.... In view of our present troubles, (the raging War) this prediction seems to be in progress of fulfillment, whether Joe Smith was a humbug or not.... Have we not had a prophet among us?" (Philadelphia Sunday Mercury after the outbreak of the Civil War. Clipping in Journal History, 5 May 1861.)
Yunginspirit 1 year ago
@kackyful: Further, while speaking in Ramus, Illinois, on April 2, 1843, Joseph said: "I prophesy, in the name of the Lord God, that the commencement of the difficulties which will cause much bloodshed previous to the coming of the Son of Man will be in South Carolina. (And it did) It may probably arise through the slave question. (And it did) (And it did) This a voice declared to me, while I was praying earnestly on the subject, December 25th, 1832." (See Doctrine and Covenants 130:12-13.)
Yunginspirit 1 year ago
@kackyful: "While there had been tensions between the South & the North, including talk of secession, hardly anyone seriously thought that civil war would erupt. Americans had great faith in their nation & in democracy. In fact, there were members of the Church who were so shaken by the "ridiculous" nature of Joseph's civil war prophecy... the many specific details of his prophecy suggest that more than reason & guesswork were needed to be so accurate."
Yunginspirit 1 year ago
@kackyful: "Beginning in the 1830s, LDS missionaries carried manuscript copies of the above revelation with them in their missionary journeys, and "frequently read it to their congregations in various parts of the United States" (Roberts, p. 315). The entire revelation was printed in 1851 in Liverpool, England, in a pamphlet entitled, "The Pearl of Great Price." This was a decade before the first shot of the Civil War on April 12, 1861." Cont:
Yunginspirit 1 year ago
Comment removed
Yunginspirit 1 year ago
@kackyful Thus, the prediction was made 28 years before its fulfillment, and was printed and circulated in England and in the United States at least ten years before.
Yunginspirit 1 year ago
My lord, would you do some research? I understand that your Mormons and "know" the truth, we too were once so damned ignorant too. I really don't want to keep this going because ultimately it is absurd and you have nothing on which to stand, especially when you offer nothing other than the regurgitated Mormon pablum of which we as former Mormons are well aware. So let's go through this shall we?
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
Can any person rightfully claim prophetic abilities if they predict unrest in the Middle East in the future? I think not.
Along the same lines, I think it is quite clear from historical records that unrest was already brewing regarding slavery in Joseph Smith's time. Joseph Smith made his South Carolina "revelation" (D&C 87) on 12/25/1832.
Do you think that the nullification convention held in November 1832 by South Carolina may have had an influence on Joseph Smith's prediction? I think so.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
In November 1832 a South Carolina delegation defiantly nullified the federal 1828 and 1832 tarriffs. South Carolina immediately prepared for a military showdown with the federal government. South Carolina regiments were organized and volunteers were gathered together to fight the federal government. The issue was temporarily diffused with the compromise of 1833, but the tension was only postponed. (Secret and Sacred, The Diaries of James Hummond, a Southern Slaveholder, edited by Carol Bleser)
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
So history speaks to us quite clearly. Joseph Smith's so called revelation was made on the heals of one of the biggest signs to the country that a civil war was evident. A State within the Union had nullified federal law and even prepared its people for war against the Union. Do Mormons consider this information when reviewing Doctrine and Covenants 87? I think not.
Yes, Smith predicted that the northern & southern states were going to be at war and the rebellion would begin in South Carolina.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
BUT this is not at all surprising when one looks at the facts. At the exact same time that South Carolina was preparing for war against the federal government in 1832, Joseph Smith made his prediction.
Smith was not a prophet, despite your religion's lame attempts at spin. Perhaps you need more help in this are as it is aparent you're not going to study these issues yourself. Let's list a few more "prophecies" shall we?
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
SALE OF BOOK OF MORMON COPYRIGHT: Winter 1829-1830. Comp Hist 1:165 Joseph had a revelation that Hiram Page and Oliver Cowdery were to go to Toronto to sell the copyright of the Book of Mormon to raise money.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
FULFILLMENT: They went, according to the revelation, but were completely unsuccessful. Joseph Smith "inquired of God" and was told that some "revelations" are not from God. David Whitmer reports this incident in his book An Address To All Believers In Christ, Richmond, 1887, photo reprinting by Utah Lighthouse Ministry, pp 30-31.
So how can one tell if a revelation is not of god? Apparently Smith didn't know either.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
FAR WEST TEMPLE: April 26, 1838. D&C 115. Revelation concerning the city of Far West, Missouri, and the building of a temple there. God commands the temple to be built; the church will be gathered to Zion (Missouri), which will be "for a defense, and for a refuge from the storm." Work on the temple is to commence in the summer of 1838, with construction to begin April 26, 1839, with work to continue "diligently until it shall be finished, ..
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
from the corner stone thereof unto the top thereof, until there shall not anything remain that is not finished." (v. 12) Verse 17: "I say unto you, it is my will that the city of Far West should be built up speedily by the gathering of my saints."
FULFILLMENT: The temple cornerstone was laid, but no more work was ever done and the temple is still not completed. Far West was abandoned by the Mormons soon after this revelation.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
It would appear that the building of the Far West temple was not the work of God, since God's work cannot be frustrated (see D&C 3:3).
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
ICE SHALL FLOW: Nov 3, 1831. D&C 133:26. Those "who are in the north countries... shall smite the rocks, and the ice shall flow down at their presence."
FULFILLMENT: The church has made no claim that this prophecy has been fulfilled. Besides, what does it mean?
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
NATIONS SHALL TREMBLE: Nov 3, 1831. D&C 133:42 "...all nations shall tremble at thy presence." FULFILLMENT: No one can claim that all nations tremble at the presence of the Mormons.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
ENEMIES WILL BE SHAMED: Dec 1, 1831. D&C 71:7-10 Mormons are to call upon their enemies to meet them both in public and in private, & the shame of their enemies shall be made manifest. "No weapon that is formed against you shall prosper."
FULFILLMENT: The Mormons are generally reluctant to discuss their religion with anyone but prospective converts, but when they have been willing to meet with their critics & debate, they have not been particularly able to make their opponents' shame manifest.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
The Missourians and the residents of Hancock County, Illinois, who "formed weapons" against the Mormons, were successful in driving them out.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
NEW YORK WILL BE DESTROYED: Sept 22-23, 1832. D&C 84:114-115. New York, Albany and Boston will be destroyed if they reject the gospel. The "hour of their judgment is nigh..."
FULFILLMENT: Newell K. Whitney and Joseph Smith went to New York, Albany, and Boston and preached there. These cities did not accept the gospel. They have not been destroyed.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
MORMON DEBTS WILL BE PAID: April 23, 1834. D&C 104: 78-83. God's promise to deliver the Saints from their debts. "It is my will that you shall pay all your debts." The Lord will soften the hearts of their creditors.
FULFILLMENT: Joseph Smith and other prominent Mormons had to flee Kirtland to avoid their creditors, leaving debts of thousands of dollars unpaid. Smith ultimately filed bankruptcy.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
SALEM, MASS., WILL BELONG TO MORMONS: Aug 6, 1836. D&C 111. J. Smith received a revelation telling him to go to Salem, Mass. This section is the revelation given to him when he and his companions had arrived there. It promises that they would receive the city and "have power over it" and "its wealth pertaining to gold and silver" should be theirs.
FULFILLMENT: J. Smith returned in Sept. to Kirtland. Neither he nor the Mormons ever had power over the city, nor did they receive its gold & silver.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
KIRTLAND LAND INVESTORS WILL BE RICH: April 1837. LDS Mess & Adv Apr 1837 p 488 "This place [Kirtland, Ohio] must be built up, and will be built up, and every brother that will take hold and help secure and discharge these [land] contracts shall be rich."
FULFILLMENT: Nobody became rich investing in Kirtland land contracts. Most of those involved in the Kirtland land speculation, encouraged by Joseph Smith, lost money. Joseph Smith himself went bankrupt and had to flee his creditors.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
I just goes on an on like this through the entire litany of Smith's "prophecies." The man could not prophecy his way out of a paper bag, but it did get him into the pants of elven married women, a few teenagers (one of which was my relative) and others for a total of 34 "wives" on record, but I'm sure there were even more.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
On that note, you may also want to research into why Smith was bedding 16yr old Fanny Alger out in his Barn in 1833 (the Mormon Church claims her as his first plural wife) when Smith supposedly did not get the keys from Elijah in the Kirtland Temple and thus "heavenly sanction" to do so until April 3, 1836.
Uh oh! "Uh, Kolob? We have a problem."
Please for the love of sanity, research. I'm not going to continue this absurd discussion with you if you're not going to research.
It's all a con.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
The reason her kids keep her from the grandkids is that the Cult always comes first.
exmoagogo 1 year ago
When I see a person like her I'm confirmed in my observation that some people are just BORN with an extra urge toward integrity. They simply CANNOT abide a lie or an inconsistency. They refuse to pull the rug over it.
It's just such people who leave religion as they become adults--no matter how devout their upbringing....
GetMeThere1 2 years ago
She lied again!...at the start of this video she said that there were no witnesses to the gold plates/the Book of Mormon but there were 11 witnesses who saw and/or felt the gold plates and they signed a document to this effect. This is common knowledge to many people. You can read their testimonies in the beginning of the Book. Go to ldschurchdotcom and check it out for yourself. Also, it is not a record of the Jews but are a branch of Joseph of Egypt's descendants... of the House of Israel. : )
Yunginspirit 1 year ago
Umm, I'm afraid you're just repeating the Mormon line which you have been told was the "truth." Why did Martin Harris over the pulpit of the Kirtland Temple state that they (the witnesses) did not see the plates with their physical eyes, but rather with the "eyes of their understanding" which in the vernacular of the day meant "imagination." There's much out there to learn in Mormon history. Please research, it simply is not what it claims to be.
All the best, -EMF
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
@Exmormon: If you are truly an exmo, then you'd know without a doubt that the written testimonies of the 11 witnesses exist and are in the beginning of the Book of Mormon. Shame on you.!
Yunginspirit 1 year ago
Yes spritboy, I'm aware of the testimonies on the cover page. But they are irrelevant especially when you understand that they did not write those testimonies, Smith did, and some of them were quite reluctant to have their names on the document. You need to research. You are trying to play a game of defense without any evidence to do so. But according to your logic, one should believe the witness testimonies of James Strang and his "Book of the Law of the Lord?" Replete with plates? Research.
ExmormonFoundation 1 year ago
You can also read testimonies of the Book of the Law of the Lord.
More people say they saw UFOs.
exmoagogo 1 year ago
@exmoagogo - That's true re testimonies. And perhaps some folks call angels and such UFOs?
Yunginspirit 1 year ago
@Yunginspirit: There is considerable information about this issue, if you care to research it. Toward the end of their lives, those witnesses (most of whom had left the church--or be kicked out), reluctantly admitted (to journalist interviewers) that they "saw" the plates with "spiritual vision," and not physically, in reality.
Essentially....they "made believe" in their own minds that they had seen them.
GetMeThere1 1 year ago