@SpanishHunkyGuy they are languages that started from the same base, although the split into separate languagues happened a long time ago. they are both occitano-romance languages, and we can understand each other quite easily.
@tlockf I think it's good for you Catalonian people to use Catalan to talk to Occitan people, and get used to each other variants, to foster communication, like for us, Galicians, is good to use our language to communicate with Portuguese and Brazilian people despite the grammatical and lexical differences.
@SpanishHunkyGuy I agree with you, I have a Portuguese friend who goes to Galicia often and talks to them directly in Portugeuse. It's a shame what the Castilians and French do to our languages and cultures.
@tlockf Well, I don't think the Castilians established the Galician-Portuguese border for 900 years, which caused the split of the medieval language. The Portuguese did.
On the other hand, it's quite hypocritical of many Catalonian people to say that they do understand the Balearic dialects and don't understand Languedocien. Catalonians intentionally identify Occitan with Aranese to emphasize how Catalan and Aranese are different, but most Occitan dialects aren't that different from Catalan.
@SpanishHunkyGuy It might be Portugal who established the border, but it's the Castilians who are removing our languages, and from what I hear Galician is barely spoken now. Lets get something clear: the Catalan spoken in the Balearics is not a dialect. Neither is Valencian. In fact only Valencian is used as another term for Catalan. Occitan however is a separate language, and though there are similarities, they still have different vocabulary, grammar and spelling from us.
@tlockf Galician is barely spoken? Hahaha. You should try to get informed. Most Galicians speak Galician in their everyday life. Galicia is the territory in Spain with the largest number of active speakers in the native language, by far! This is a fact. We cannot say the same about Catalan.
Catalan and Occitan aren't two separate languages. There exists a linguistic continuum in the French department of Languedoc-Rosellon.
@SpanishHunkyGuy Ok, I'm really glad I was wrong about Galician, I hope I didn't offend you. But now you need to get informed about the northeast. There isn't a continuum in the Longuedoc-Rossellon, the territory "Languedoc-Rossellon" is an invented one. It wasn't until 1659, that Catalunya Nord (which the French renamed Rossellon after one of comarques there) was made part of France. This is just a small part of LR, and Catalan is only spoken in Ross, and not even much (25%)
@tlockf Omg. Catalonian ethnocentrism is actually bad for both Catalan and Occitan. Languedocien and Catalan are closer than Gascon and Provençal. Who are you going to use Catalan with if you don't talk to Occitan speakers?
Then, you'll expect Galicians to understand Mumbay's Portuguese or the Capeverdean creole...
@SpanishHunkyGuy look, I would be really glad for a greater use of Occitan everywhere where it was originally spoken, and I am saddened that it is dying out. But how can you call us ethnocentrics? We allow the Vall d'Aran to have Aranese as its major language, and I would be very happy to converse on a regular basis with an Oc speaker. And though I mean what I said, if I don't speak with the 1 million Occitan speakers, I can still talk to the 9 million Catalan speakers.
@tlockf Aranese is Gascon. I know it's different from Catalan, but I was actually referring to standard Occitan, which is Languedocien. It's the closest dialect to Catalan. This is the one I'm actually interested in, coz it's nice to talk to and understand the whole linguistic family.
Nevermind, keep talking Catalan. It's the most revolutionary thing you can do in your everyday life. I can't wait to start speaking Languedocien.
@SpanishHunkyGuy why are you personally attacking me? You don't know anything about me. See my first comment? I agree that I, a Catalan speaker, can understand and converse with Occitan speakers. All I'm saying is that not all people are as proficient with languages. Once, I spent a few days in a Italy and soon I understood everything the said. Clearly, all romance languages are similar and intelligible to most otehr romance speakers.
@tlockf I didn't mean to attack you. I just gave you some advice. It wasn't an attack. I was serious.
What do you prefer, keep saying things such as: "em mola molt, no em ratges, qui fort nen" or enter into contact with occitan, which can help you out to speak a more authentic Catalan? Then, according to Catalonian nationalists, it is Galician that is "castellanitzat". Sure!
@SpanishHunkyGuy I agree that Catalonian nationalists say that about Galician, and it's probably out of ignorance, but I don't know if they've even investigated it, so I'm not going to presume about anyone. Lol, it's true, Catalan is super castellanitzat, and Catalan in North Catalonia is super "francificat". And we're taking great care to remove these "barbarismes". Have you seen the game shows like Bocamoll or El gran dictat? They're all about "destruir menys el Català"
@tlockf They just expect Galician to sound like Catalan. They can't even pronounce "xa cho dixen" properly and expect us to pronounce "xunto" with a vibrating sound, like them. They hear us pronounce "facer" with a th sound and assume that Galician is "castellanitzat". That sound goes back to Middle Galician: /fatser/ > /father/. In modern Portuguese it just became voiced: /fatser/ > /fadzer/ and then simplified /fazer/. Therefore, it's not Spanish.
@tlockf But they love looking down on Galician. I've read thousands of comments about Galician in certain Catalonian fora, saying that the way we spell it or pronounce it is "monstuós". Awesome. They should care more about Catalan, which has been terribly influenced by Spanish in recent times, and leave Galician alone if they don't like the way it is. I've also seen McDonalds ads written in "monstruós" Catalan, but they don't criticise that.
@SpanishHunkyGuy No one's perfect. I guess there's people who just have terrible double standards. All languages in Spain have been terribly influenced by Spanish, it's unfair to say one of them is worse than the other. Well, this has been very interesting and revealing, thanks :D
I wish the United States could try to get some knowledge on Occitan,maybe a dictionary,Occitan for Dummies,and Teach Yourself Occitan,where is Occitan spoken at?
@ekalb2185 well said i heard there was a guy from france or spain that made his multilingual dictionary of basque,spanish,catalan,provencal,occitan all in one but i cant find it tho
@ekalb2185 Yes!!! A lot of them had stronger french accents and others seem less french and perhaps more occitan, yet its nice none the less, don´t you think?
Is it Catalan an Occitan dialect? I'm curious!
SpanishHunkyGuy 1 month ago
@SpanishHunkyGuy they are languages that started from the same base, although the split into separate languagues happened a long time ago. they are both occitano-romance languages, and we can understand each other quite easily.
tlockf 2 weeks ago
@tlockf I think it's good for you Catalonian people to use Catalan to talk to Occitan people, and get used to each other variants, to foster communication, like for us, Galicians, is good to use our language to communicate with Portuguese and Brazilian people despite the grammatical and lexical differences.
Ieu vòli aprendre l'occitan.
SpanishHunkyGuy 2 weeks ago
@SpanishHunkyGuy I agree with you, I have a Portuguese friend who goes to Galicia often and talks to them directly in Portugeuse. It's a shame what the Castilians and French do to our languages and cultures.
tlockf 1 week ago
@tlockf Well, I don't think the Castilians established the Galician-Portuguese border for 900 years, which caused the split of the medieval language. The Portuguese did.
On the other hand, it's quite hypocritical of many Catalonian people to say that they do understand the Balearic dialects and don't understand Languedocien. Catalonians intentionally identify Occitan with Aranese to emphasize how Catalan and Aranese are different, but most Occitan dialects aren't that different from Catalan.
SpanishHunkyGuy 1 week ago
@SpanishHunkyGuy It might be Portugal who established the border, but it's the Castilians who are removing our languages, and from what I hear Galician is barely spoken now. Lets get something clear: the Catalan spoken in the Balearics is not a dialect. Neither is Valencian. In fact only Valencian is used as another term for Catalan. Occitan however is a separate language, and though there are similarities, they still have different vocabulary, grammar and spelling from us.
tlockf 1 week ago
@tlockf Galician is barely spoken? Hahaha. You should try to get informed. Most Galicians speak Galician in their everyday life. Galicia is the territory in Spain with the largest number of active speakers in the native language, by far! This is a fact. We cannot say the same about Catalan.
Catalan and Occitan aren't two separate languages. There exists a linguistic continuum in the French department of Languedoc-Rosellon.
SpanishHunkyGuy 1 week ago
@SpanishHunkyGuy Ok, I'm really glad I was wrong about Galician, I hope I didn't offend you. But now you need to get informed about the northeast. There isn't a continuum in the Longuedoc-Rossellon, the territory "Languedoc-Rossellon" is an invented one. It wasn't until 1659, that Catalunya Nord (which the French renamed Rossellon after one of comarques there) was made part of France. This is just a small part of LR, and Catalan is only spoken in Ross, and not even much (25%)
tlockf 1 week ago
@tlockf Omg. Catalonian ethnocentrism is actually bad for both Catalan and Occitan. Languedocien and Catalan are closer than Gascon and Provençal. Who are you going to use Catalan with if you don't talk to Occitan speakers?
Then, you'll expect Galicians to understand Mumbay's Portuguese or the Capeverdean creole...
SpanishHunkyGuy 1 week ago
@SpanishHunkyGuy look, I would be really glad for a greater use of Occitan everywhere where it was originally spoken, and I am saddened that it is dying out. But how can you call us ethnocentrics? We allow the Vall d'Aran to have Aranese as its major language, and I would be very happy to converse on a regular basis with an Oc speaker. And though I mean what I said, if I don't speak with the 1 million Occitan speakers, I can still talk to the 9 million Catalan speakers.
tlockf 1 week ago
@SpanishHunkyGuy and we allow the Aranese such freedom because they ask for it!
tlockf 1 week ago
@tlockf Aranese is Gascon. I know it's different from Catalan, but I was actually referring to standard Occitan, which is Languedocien. It's the closest dialect to Catalan. This is the one I'm actually interested in, coz it's nice to talk to and understand the whole linguistic family.
Nevermind, keep talking Catalan. It's the most revolutionary thing you can do in your everyday life. I can't wait to start speaking Languedocien.
SpanishHunkyGuy 1 week ago
@SpanishHunkyGuy why are you personally attacking me? You don't know anything about me. See my first comment? I agree that I, a Catalan speaker, can understand and converse with Occitan speakers. All I'm saying is that not all people are as proficient with languages. Once, I spent a few days in a Italy and soon I understood everything the said. Clearly, all romance languages are similar and intelligible to most otehr romance speakers.
tlockf 1 week ago
@tlockf I didn't mean to attack you. I just gave you some advice. It wasn't an attack. I was serious.
What do you prefer, keep saying things such as: "em mola molt, no em ratges, qui fort nen" or enter into contact with occitan, which can help you out to speak a more authentic Catalan? Then, according to Catalonian nationalists, it is Galician that is "castellanitzat". Sure!
SpanishHunkyGuy 1 week ago
@SpanishHunkyGuy I agree that Catalonian nationalists say that about Galician, and it's probably out of ignorance, but I don't know if they've even investigated it, so I'm not going to presume about anyone. Lol, it's true, Catalan is super castellanitzat, and Catalan in North Catalonia is super "francificat". And we're taking great care to remove these "barbarismes". Have you seen the game shows like Bocamoll or El gran dictat? They're all about "destruir menys el Català"
tlockf 1 week ago
@tlockf They just expect Galician to sound like Catalan. They can't even pronounce "xa cho dixen" properly and expect us to pronounce "xunto" with a vibrating sound, like them. They hear us pronounce "facer" with a th sound and assume that Galician is "castellanitzat". That sound goes back to Middle Galician: /fatser/ > /father/. In modern Portuguese it just became voiced: /fatser/ > /fadzer/ and then simplified /fazer/. Therefore, it's not Spanish.
SpanishHunkyGuy 1 week ago
@tlockf But they love looking down on Galician. I've read thousands of comments about Galician in certain Catalonian fora, saying that the way we spell it or pronounce it is "monstuós". Awesome. They should care more about Catalan, which has been terribly influenced by Spanish in recent times, and leave Galician alone if they don't like the way it is. I've also seen McDonalds ads written in "monstruós" Catalan, but they don't criticise that.
Whatever...
SpanishHunkyGuy 1 week ago
@SpanishHunkyGuy No one's perfect. I guess there's people who just have terrible double standards. All languages in Spain have been terribly influenced by Spanish, it's unfair to say one of them is worse than the other. Well, this has been very interesting and revealing, thanks :D
tlockf 1 week ago
the speak occitan with french accent
lolcrumo 1 month ago
wow I can hardly speak standard french but to be able to read arnaut!!
vivascargill1 3 months ago
I would love to learn Occitan languages so I could read all the literature from that region. Sadly, I hear most dialects are going extinct.
juliaisafilmbuff123 3 months ago
I wish the United States could try to get some knowledge on Occitan,maybe a dictionary,Occitan for Dummies,and Teach Yourself Occitan,where is Occitan spoken at?
ekalb2185 3 months ago 2
@ekalb2185 well said i heard there was a guy from france or spain that made his multilingual dictionary of basque,spanish,catalan,provencal,occitan all in one but i cant find it tho
changolini 1 month ago
Comment removed
Rahula 4 months ago
was that all in Occitan?
ekalb2185 5 months ago
@ekalb2185 Yes!!! A lot of them had stronger french accents and others seem less french and perhaps more occitan, yet its nice none the less, don´t you think?
greggegg 4 months ago 2
Awesome
auitane 6 months ago