ECG Video: AV Block - Complete (Third Degree)

[msl3am]

my 22mths old kid is diagnose to have complete heart block and the only recommendation is a permanent pacemaker...I understand the device poss it's own risk as well... he looks fine and didn't have the sympton of the condition, however the doc said his heart is a little swollen, his heart beat is about 52bpm.

Is there any chance out there that he might recover naturally from this without the need for a pacemaker. I will be greatful to hear people experiences on people with a pacemaker also.

[yagal]

@msl3am Recently my son 24mths old also was diagnosed complete heart block and i have the same question. Is there any chance or way to recover it naturally? His heart beat is about 60 bpm and while rest (while sleep) might come down to even 42bpm. What kind of activities, diet should be applied in such situation? could you refer to some articules web pages worth reading? I would appriciate any help.

[JasmineRiddle7]

@yagal I don't know if this is any help to you or msl3am, but I was born with a complete heart block myself and have lived for 18 years now, without a pacemaker or medication. (In case you are interested: My heart beat is at about 60-50 bpm (most of the time) and goes down to about 35bpm when I sleep.) Although I can't do much sports and get out of breath very easily, my condition doesn't bother me most of the time. I have a happy and normal life.

[JasmineRiddle7]

@yagal As far as I know (at least from my experiences, I am not a doctor) this condition does not go away by itself or heal naturally. (By the way, I don't have to stick to a diet). Althoug I didn't need a pacemaker (so far, you never know if it will become neccessary one day) I can't tell you if it is neccessary in your child's case, since I have no medical training at all. All I can tell you are my personal experiences.

[yagal]

@JasmineRiddle7 Thanks a lot for your reply, this is very helpful as this is new experience for me and I'm trying to know as much as possible about this condition. Recently we have received information form doctor that in case of my son there is no need for pacemaker also, so this is similar situation to yours. I really do appreciate your reply and thanks for that.

Best wishes.

[ECAR1342]

Yea. you can definitely see the varying P to R interval

[firemanladder12]

third degree heart block isnt the block recognizable by the different pri. third degree heart block the r waves and p waves are not associated at all. first degree has a longer pri. second degree mobitz has a differing pri. and weinkebach type two the pri gets shorter and shorter until it drops a qrs complex. just an fyi.

[drgrimaldo]

Excelente video...  Desafortunadamente no para el Paciente... :S

[J999ACK]

Signs of Ishecmia...not good :|

[LukeSlomka]

these films are great for someone like me trying to learn about ecgs and there interpretation, thanks

Luke Slomka

[DHWDeadlyDemon]

I was born in '94 with a disorder called Complete Heart Block, as I grew up I saw the attacks at 9/11 and I knew that wasn't right, I was 7 then, When I was 8 I learned a small bit about the marines, when I was 11, I told My Mom I wanted join the marines, a Year later I was 12, went to the hospital due to a bad stomach ache, They diagnosed Me with My Complete Heart Block, destroyed My dreams, When I was 13, 11 days before My 14th B - Day, I got a pacemaker implant, It's a hard life

[xclnt000]

A 3rd Degree Heart Block -- in a simple way LOOK on your P to P interval is always regular and same too with your QRS complex is regular but note NO CORRELATION between your QRS. Not all the time P before your QRS.

[blondeisius]

all your videos on arrhythmias will help me understand this material for my pharmacotherapeutics exam! thanks so much!

[Alexandre152]

a little doubt here.. I thought that to have a 3rth degree block the ECG would have to show two "P" waves. One in the beggining of the cycle, taking a bit more longer to the QRS complex start, then another "P" wave apearing ramdomly before the next cycle start( similar to 2nd degree).

Is it right to consider 3rth degree without the other ramdom P wave?

[uziriderrush]

not necessarily two P waves... it could vary from 3 - 5 Ps then a qrs.

[imunclesam76]

The P waves will appear at a rate of 60-100 which is the normal intrinsic rate of the SA node.  The qrs will be at a rate of 20-40. Therefore, the P waves and the qrs have no association with each other.

[stef0720]

You've got it!

[cknina]

Why is third degree?

[fifirockefeller]

I'm learning this stuff, too. I "believe" it is a 3rd degree block because the Pwaves are not at all connected to the QRS complex - the atria and ventricles are operating independently and without connection to each other.

.

(Is that right?)

[nizammajid]

hey ....u post this ...u make my life easyyyy am going for my ACLS ...haha i've been taking hard time to remember first, second and third degree HB...very nice...i owe u ...

[Kevindavis08]

Ran a call the other day for a guy in 3rd degree from a clinic. The 12 lead didn't catch it, and my Partner and I couldn't believe what we were seeing. When we walked into the room this guy just stood up, and said "I'm fine, I don't need an ambulance". He really was though, 136/84, Skin Warm dry pink. HR 30 Multifocal, Atrial Rate 80. Was just amazing. Put the pacing pads on just in case though.

[anoukholiastos]

hello! i have intermittent 3rd degree heart block (usually in first degree rythym the rest of the time) and i never pass out or even feel dizzy! i am fixing my problem actually through a chiropractor due to my spine pinching my hearts nerves and so far im down just to first degree rythm!

[firemanladder12]

pinching your hearts nerves huh? well the weird thing is that the heart is part of the autonomic nervous system. this means that it isnt dependant on nerves. it automatically electrically fires without any nerve impulses. your chiropractor is a quack if he told you that.

[aaanouky]

hi! yeah i used the wrong term there -its obviously not pinching my hearts "nerves" sorry about that! My chiro does not claim to know how or exactly why spinal adjustments are effective in some arrhythmia cases -BUT at least in my case it has something to do with my spine . Look im not a quack -or easily led -im scientifically minded -i hold a degree in physics and i have at least done some biophysics within that degree (with some study on the electropysiology of the heart).

[aaanouky]

I know its hard to see how or why -but all i want to say publicly is not to ignore this possibility -especially since i and a few other arrhythmia patients i know have had success. At least my scans are showing up way better than before -prior to chiro i entered 3rd degree on my holter monitor scan at least 20 times and on my stress test i was in 3rd degree after a few minutes. Now my scans have not shown one instance of 3rd degree or 2nd degree. Also i am able to run alot farther than before.

[aaanouky]

I understand this is not taught in medical school and cant be recommended by doctors. All i can offer you is my results -and for anyone out there who is suffering from this condition and has suffered rib or neck pain to try at least to have it rectified and just see how you go -BUT still listen to your doctors advice aswell. As it stands the only option recommended to me was a pace maker at my relatively young age of 25 -i was devastated. now in 1st degree ryhthym - i dont need this. good luck!

[trenter22]

Chiropractor is just wasting your money. The electrical system in your heart has nothing to due with your spinal column. The condutive cells in your heart generate its own electricity. This organ is the only organ in your body that is independent from your brain. Don't believe a chiropractor when they tell you that they can help prevent cardiac issues. They are not Cardiologists. 3rd degree heart block comes from the AV node completly blocking all of the electrical impluses from the SA

[trenter22]

I have Sinus Bradycardia at rest. My resting heart rate is 44 BPM. If your bp is normal with your third degree block, then of course you will be asymptomatic. My point is, a chiropractor cannot fix a cardiac issue. I bet a chiropractor could'nt even name the order of the conduction pathways in the heart.

[aaanouky]

Hi trenter -i used the wrong terminology i know -sorry about that -please see my replies to firemanladder12 above :) Im sorry to hear about your bradycardia -i too suffer from that when im in 3rd degree and sometimes when im not -ive been down to 35bpm. Please dont shun what im saying simply because science cant explain it yet -i hold a physics degree so im not a quack -one thing we learn in physics is to think scientifically yes -but also not too rule out what was once thought impossible :)

[firemanladder12]

dude a chiropractor might adjust your back sure, but he cannot fix an autonomic issue. the only thing that would make sense is that it is a stress reliever for you.

[aaanouky]

Good point -i had thought of that -and hey IF my sudden onset of 3rd degree heart block was indeed caused by stress and subsequently relieved by a chiropractor working on my long standing upper rib and neck problems (which can be caused by stressful behavior patterns) -then its worth whiile. Being a cardiology patient is a frightening experience -i just want to bring to the table my experiences and results in hope that it may help at least one other out there with similar issues. good luck all!

[tylerchristensen27]

In 2nd degree type 2(Classic) you never ever use Atropine. It will cause more blocks.

[lisichka265]

Adenosine 6mg IV fast push followed by 20-30cc NSS.

[mobitz57]

Ummm...not! Adenosine is for fast stuff, atropine for slow stuff, pacer for 3rd degree block.

[lisichka265]

Oh shit...you're right lol.

[uziriderrush]

u sir just killed a patient with ur trigger happy adenosine hands :P jkz

[NCTImedic2]

If hes unstable, time to pace his ass!!! haha