The air will flow into the tube from the pocket, and then up into the balloon and potentially then out of the balloon into the big cavity, until the tip of the pipe is below the water level in the pocket.
@blackjeffrey1 you know, when there is no balloon and exposed to atmospheric pressure air from the air pocket doesnt leak out even when you pour water into the tube...the water just squirts out of into the air pocket. You cud argue that the balloon is a micro version of atmospheric pressure... never tried to build this yet so im willing to give to the benfit of the doubt :).
@kamalmichael How does that work? The water shuold push all the air out. You try it yourself, get a bucket of water, a little cup and a tube.
There is no mechanism by which the air will not be pushed out of the tube, unless the tube is full of water to begin with (which makes it indistinguishable from the rest of the water).
@blackjeffrey1 i think i turned a clear glass upside down in a sink with a air pocket and pushed a clear with water into the air pocket so it was indistinguishable. cant remember what i did next but it may be to turn the tap on on to the tube at the top. but what ever i did, water squirted out on to the air pocket and the air pocket stayed where it was.. a fountain was created and this kinda gave me the idea for the vid
@blackjeffrey1 yesterday ...turned a clear glass upside down in water n got the air pocket, stuck a water filled tube into the air pocket and ran tap water on top of the tube (the driving force ) and there was a fountain n the water level stayed same. What i did originally was had a water container on the tap end of the tube ,which was raised above water level.Fill container with water n gravity (driving force) created a fountain... thats why air balloon is above water level
@kamalmichael Was the glass completely full of air, or was there some water in it at the bottom? With a small enough flow the water should be able to join the bulk before displacing significant amounts of air.
Also, what is the driving force to keep the fountain running? If you had water in the balloon, what is stopping it from going into the other pipe? I understand it working when you have a water supply, but not like in the video.
@blackjeffrey1 the glass was almost full of air. If i suck the tube, the level comes up obviously but if i push air into the tube the level drops.. this cud explain why the level is at the bottom... the driving force orignally i suppose was gravity and air pressure.,.. if you add water at the top of the tube, which must be above the water level, you will get a fountain and no rise in water level at the air pocket ie the fountain in no way get swallowed up by rising water level
@kamalmichael Yeah, if you don't push enough water through, then the air is pushed to the bottom, but the water hits the bottom before additional air gets pushed out. If you stop flowing the water, the level should be slightly inside. If you drain the tube the air will be pushed out the tube. Yes, the driving force was originally gravity, however if you seal the system and set it up as shown, gravity would need to push the water through the tube, and out into the air and back to the balloon.
@kamalmichael This would result in no net force. The force to push the water through the tube into the air pocket, would be countered by the weight of the water and it having to be pushed back into the balloon. Additionally, it is just as likely to try and go the other way (and force air through the tube).
The system will come to equilibrium, and the water will stop flowing. Even with a ballon instead of a rigid upper chamber it will achieve equilibrium. The pressure in the air chamber can be large enough to hold the water in the upper chamber. Look up Heron (Hero's) fountain. water is moved to a higher elevation based on air pressure. If you think you can get it to work build it instead of drawing it.
unfortunately this won't work. The air will be pushed out of the air pocket and up into the balloon, and the water you inject will go to the airpocket instead of the balloon. There is no magical force to make the water go up into the balloon rather than filling the lowest cavity first.
The perssure of the water added to the closed system is forcing water into the balloon and into the air pocket equally so the system instantly comes to a stop. The more extra water you add to the system the bigger the ballon gets until the balloon bursts. water does not flow through the pipe because it is at the same pressure at both ends.
Perpetual motion only works in peoples minds - because they forget to include some of the forces or resistances thus throwing off the calculations. Imho
gravity u forgot- the water cannot stay suspended in the ballon- it will have to fall to a lower level especially since air pressure is acting on the ballon(hence a ballon-and not a ridge chamber)- it will follow a pipe with least resistance-ie the pipe leading to the air pocket. U can try a simple version by using an upside down cup(air pocket) and a water hose above water level and subjected to air pressure (2nd tube). the universe itself is perpetual motion bt i am not an advocate
Why'd you put all this energy into building an animation when you could have constructed the actual device itself?
learrus 2 weeks ago
The air will flow into the tube from the pocket, and then up into the balloon and potentially then out of the balloon into the big cavity, until the tip of the pipe is below the water level in the pocket.
blackjeffrey1 3 months ago
@blackjeffrey1 you know, when there is no balloon and exposed to atmospheric pressure air from the air pocket doesnt leak out even when you pour water into the tube...the water just squirts out of into the air pocket. You cud argue that the balloon is a micro version of atmospheric pressure... never tried to build this yet so im willing to give to the benfit of the doubt :).
kamalmichael 3 months ago
@kamalmichael How does that work? The water shuold push all the air out. You try it yourself, get a bucket of water, a little cup and a tube.
There is no mechanism by which the air will not be pushed out of the tube, unless the tube is full of water to begin with (which makes it indistinguishable from the rest of the water).
blackjeffrey1 3 months ago
@blackjeffrey1 i think i turned a clear glass upside down in a sink with a air pocket and pushed a clear with water into the air pocket so it was indistinguishable. cant remember what i did next but it may be to turn the tap on on to the tube at the top. but what ever i did, water squirted out on to the air pocket and the air pocket stayed where it was.. a fountain was created and this kinda gave me the idea for the vid
kamalmichael 3 months ago
@kamalmichael You have a limited volume, if you put water in, something needs to move,
Additionally, what is the driving force to push the water into the balloon?
blackjeffrey1 3 months ago
@blackjeffrey1 yesterday ...turned a clear glass upside down in water n got the air pocket, stuck a water filled tube into the air pocket and ran tap water on top of the tube (the driving force ) and there was a fountain n the water level stayed same. What i did originally was had a water container on the tap end of the tube ,which was raised above water level.Fill container with water n gravity (driving force) created a fountain... thats why air balloon is above water level
kamalmichael 3 months ago
@kamalmichael Was the glass completely full of air, or was there some water in it at the bottom? With a small enough flow the water should be able to join the bulk before displacing significant amounts of air.
Also, what is the driving force to keep the fountain running? If you had water in the balloon, what is stopping it from going into the other pipe? I understand it working when you have a water supply, but not like in the video.
blackjeffrey1 3 months ago
@blackjeffrey1 the glass was almost full of air. If i suck the tube, the level comes up obviously but if i push air into the tube the level drops.. this cud explain why the level is at the bottom... the driving force orignally i suppose was gravity and air pressure.,.. if you add water at the top of the tube, which must be above the water level, you will get a fountain and no rise in water level at the air pocket ie the fountain in no way get swallowed up by rising water level
kamalmichael 3 months ago
@kamalmichael Yeah, if you don't push enough water through, then the air is pushed to the bottom, but the water hits the bottom before additional air gets pushed out. If you stop flowing the water, the level should be slightly inside. If you drain the tube the air will be pushed out the tube. Yes, the driving force was originally gravity, however if you seal the system and set it up as shown, gravity would need to push the water through the tube, and out into the air and back to the balloon.
blackjeffrey1 3 months ago
@kamalmichael This would result in no net force. The force to push the water through the tube into the air pocket, would be countered by the weight of the water and it having to be pushed back into the balloon. Additionally, it is just as likely to try and go the other way (and force air through the tube).
blackjeffrey1 3 months ago
@kamalmichael Regardless, as soon as water started to flow into the pocket, air would be displaced.
blackjeffrey1 3 months ago
@blackjeffrey1 you know thats what i thought...but it didnt.. im gonna go back and try what i did and keep you posted what i did
kamalmichael 3 months ago
The system will come to equilibrium, and the water will stop flowing. Even with a ballon instead of a rigid upper chamber it will achieve equilibrium. The pressure in the air chamber can be large enough to hold the water in the upper chamber. Look up Heron (Hero's) fountain. water is moved to a higher elevation based on air pressure. If you think you can get it to work build it instead of drawing it.
hillideal 5 months ago
unfortunately this won't work. The air will be pushed out of the air pocket and up into the balloon, and the water you inject will go to the airpocket instead of the balloon. There is no magical force to make the water go up into the balloon rather than filling the lowest cavity first.
shockwave77598 9 months ago
@shockwave77598 good points
kamalmichael 9 months ago
HOW CUUUUTE!!!
MagnaCentipede 2 years ago
The perssure of the water added to the closed system is forcing water into the balloon and into the air pocket equally so the system instantly comes to a stop. The more extra water you add to the system the bigger the ballon gets until the balloon bursts. water does not flow through the pipe because it is at the same pressure at both ends.
Perpetual motion only works in peoples minds - because they forget to include some of the forces or resistances thus throwing off the calculations. Imho
mentalooney 2 years ago
gravity u forgot- the water cannot stay suspended in the ballon- it will have to fall to a lower level especially since air pressure is acting on the ballon(hence a ballon-and not a ridge chamber)- it will follow a pipe with least resistance-ie the pipe leading to the air pocket. U can try a simple version by using an upside down cup(air pocket) and a water hose above water level and subjected to air pressure (2nd tube). the universe itself is perpetual motion bt i am not an advocate
kamalmichael 2 years ago
Je ne comprend pas bien le fonctionnement du systeme.
manukantic 2 years ago
1) extra water added to the closed system has nowhere to go which would mean water entering the balloon chamber.
2) air pressure pushes it dowm through the tube of least resistance- the tube going into the air pocket
3)water comes out of the air pocket and again forced to climb out of other tube- the cycle should keep repeating- enternal fountain
kamalmichael 2 years ago