Fighting the War on Cameras: Jerome Vorus and the ACLU take D.C. to Court

[ewhitlow]

I always love to hear articulate discussion on these topics. And Jerome, you are very articulate. Good Job!

[DerpHerper]

I think the main reason officers don't want to be documented is because they feel uncomfortable on several levels. What if someone started taking pictures of you while you were doing your job? Wouldn't that be a bit unsettling? Put yourself in the officer's shoes. Who's that guy over there? Why is he taking pictures? Is he connected to this? While I admit it isn't a reason to detain someone, it does come off as suspicious enough for a more paranoid person to take it seriously.

[vcool]

@DerpHerper Screw you. The police hold great power over us, and as such must behave responsibly. I can put them in my shoes. If I was cop, I'd like to filmed from multiple angles, so if some scum decides to sue me, I have evidence of who was right. You can take all the pictures you want of me when I'm on the street.

[vcool]

@DerpHerper The main reason why they don't want to be sued is that they know they're abusive and don't want their abuses to be recorded.

[dakeyjake]

@vcool That's a pretty generalized statement. I do agree to an extent, but to say they're all abusive is ignorant at best.

[OneVoiceMore]

@DerpHerper Gotta respond. Their comfort be damned. They hold PUBLIC office, paid for by PUBLIC funds. Their job is NOT like my job. Imagine at your job, if your company installed security cameras, and you destroyed the cameras, handcuffed your bosses, and threw them in a cell.

Failing to understand that WE are the employers in these cases is a failing of cop and citizen alike.

If a cop is unsettled by a CAMERA, I'm pretty sure he shouldn't have a gun, a tazer, pepper spray, a club, or a car.

[theylied1776]

The Police are afraid of being held to the same standards as everyone else. the video camera levels the playing field.

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[TheNewMusicNetwork]

shocker! the aclu is helping a nigger! end sarcasm. this is good but those marxo-fascist faggots never help you if you have white skin

[formicapple2]

Well reasoned and articulated interview.

[teransc6303]

Great job!

[ArtStone]

This is a 4th amendment issue and maybe 5th, not a 1st. Calling yourself a "reporter" doesn't give you any more of a right to use a camera in a public place than I as a non-"reporter" also have. Don't be an elitist.

Paraphrasing the Bill of Rights is not helpful in trying to make your case and suggests to me the motives are not as pure as this video suggests.

[SomethingSea1]

It would be lovely if what he's doing would help. It won't. Here's why:

watch?v=BNIgztvyU2U

[kilroy238]

In a sad signs of our times the same officer who illegally detained Jerome was named Officer of the Month in June.

georgetown.patch.((((com)))/ar­ticles/officer-of-the-month-mi­riam-wishnick

[bweazel]

If the "constitution is the constitution" don't say stupid things like "reasonable suspicion". It says probable cause.

[captaindiesalot]

Do you believe in the ENTIRE Constitution? or just the parts that pertain to you?

[furyofbongos]

@captaindiesalot - check this out, see what you think! (it's relevant to your comment) /watch?v=ngpsJKQR_ZE

[SomethingSea1]

@captaindiesalot watch?v=BNIgztvyU2U

[phillipgaley]

@palatiality It's just that, so very few do not accept the commonly promulgated "nobody" status; people doubt the power which inheres in their own existence—third party DOES work, but like Diogenes of old, you have do look long and hard to find a true believer, . . .

[tyrohne]

remember, when seconds count; the police are only (usually) minutes away...

[brad238899]

Thank You Jerome. If ordinary citizens like you and I don't stand up for our rights then they disappear.

[phillipgaley]

@brad238899 Wikipedia: Brown v Texas determined that, lacking a reasonable suspicion of crime, a police officer may not force citizens to identify themselves - BROWN V. TEXAS, 443 U. S. 47 (1979).

[SomethingSea1]

@brad238899 watch?v=BNIgztvyU2U

[RizeUpAgainstIt]

ACAB

[granitepeaks1]

Never trust the police...EVER. They are not there to "protect and serve"...as they claim to be.

[moofushu]

There is no laws against recording police in public. The only law that might affect someone recording police is the audio portion of the video. Many police arrest people for recording them and charge them with weird charges. The real erosion of the law happens when the prosecutor decided to waste tax payers money and take the case to court. What is troubling is when police are cough threatening people for recording and sometimes violating civil rights of the person recording.

[ENJOYtheLITTLthings]

Police are public employees, they can be filmed. Don't like it? Find a new job.

[FailasaurusRex]

good fuck the police they are scum.

[ilikemitchhedberg]

fucking pigs. oink oink

[patteel]

Or they don't want their photos used out of context.

[hellsunicorn]

God bless the ACLU for standing up for this man's rights, and shame on the DC police department for failing to respect the rights of individuals in this country.

[blue46gt]

Go Jerome!!!!

[b07rivera]

When it comes to the ACLU, i have heard many negatives things about them. Mostly from the talking heads of the Republican branch. Even when, I was a regular listener of Michael Savage. He mentions nothing but the communism that are the ACLU and their lawyers. I believe when Savage was banned from Great Britian, the ACLU did back up Savage, but there was never any follow-up according to him of course. But more like GOP propaganda in my view, now that I am a Libertarian conservative.

[chewbaca1989]

One good thing the ACLU has done.

[mcoop221]

God bless this man! Screw the ACLU < even though they are defending him.

[Everett07630]

Big government equals a big police-state.

[SirWinstoneChurchill]

You get shot by the police in San Francisco if you don't pay the bus fare...

[chewbaca1989]

@SirWinstoneChurchill

/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

Chris Tucker: how not to get your ass kicked by the police

Fast foreword to 54 seconds it's the same scenario, jumping the turnstile. LOL. On a serious note the man was a menace and ran because he was a out of state parolee.

[SirWinstoneChurchill]

@chewbaca1989

You could also ride the BART train and get shot by the police while handcuffed.

These questionable police shootings piss me off... In the BART shooting, the police tried to confiscate all the cell phones that recorded the incident... I saw some of those... It was pretty clear the policeman fucked up.

But, remember, it is "change" they voted for... more taxes = more police = more of a police state

[chewbaca1989]

@SirWinstoneChurchill

Hey, the cop that shot that young man made a horrible mistake and has paid for it. Not enough IMO but he's done as an officer. I felt bad for that young man, but this recent shooting seems like the Parolee was up to no good and likely had it coming. I'll second you on the police state.

[SirWinstoneChurchill]

@chewbaca1989

These officer involved shootings with questionable circumstances have increased seriously in frequency over the last few years and it clouds the legitimate ones in the eyes of the public.

The First Amendment "freedom of the press" applies to all citizens, not just ABC,CBS, CNN, FOX, NBC, BBC or PBS... as much as the drive by media, establishment hacks and shady, bought off, unionized policemen hate it.

[chewbaca1989]

@SirWinstoneChurchill

Nothing was questionable of the Metro shooting, the officer was tried and convicted. I propose to you that anyone with a camera and a computer is the "Press". Good luck to you.

[robm425]

What's sad is the ACLU is only bringing this case to get money so once they get a settlement they will drop their case and no real progress will come from this but the ACLU will have more money in their purse

[Ecosse57]

kudos to you jerome! 2:35

[032125]

Jerome sounds like a clear headed and articulate guy. He can be on my team.

[mikheii]

THIS is the case the ACLU picks out of the hundreds? Check out the blog Photography is Not a Crime- there's a ton more cases a hell of a lot more alarming than this one....

[hannas1234]

LEOs don't need criminals, I mean non-officers, jeopardizing their safety and scrutinizing their work by constantly filming them in their duties.

[dirtbagstatus]

@hannas1234 How about their employers,the citizens? Non Officers are not jeopardizing any officers safety by filming them doing their jobs. If you disagree, then you are either a criminal officer or have stockholm syndrome.

[SomethingSea1]

@dirtbagstatus watch?v=BNIgztvyU2U

[rockinandout]

Okay I work a part time job at an ice cream shop. I'd be pretty pissed if some guy started taking pictures of me while I was working too.

[Buergs323]

@rockinandout

You're a private citizen working in a private building. If a guy is filming you, you or your boss have every right to demand someone stop filming you while you work in your PRIVATE building. The difference: Cops are out in public view, working as a PUBLIC servant, why can't they be filmed or photoed? If you still have doubts, ask yourself this question: who watches the watchmen??

[phillipgaley]

@rockinandout No one "works" in an ice cream shop; you should be paying the shop for the wonderful opportunity, . . .

[SirTenenbaum]

Free to Photograph!

[freesk8]

Jarome is a hero. A true patriot. Better than a patriot: a defender of liberty.

[oilhammer04]

Good luck with your photography in some places where they have actually made it illegal to take pictures of policemen on duty.

[tapary]

A NYS Trooper acquaintance told me this, regarding searching your car. If a cop asks if he can search your car, he has no reason to do it, and to refuse in this case.

[QuartuvLarry]

Keep up the good fight!

[Panpiper]

The problem is that cops live in a world where they are constantly exposed to the worst of the world. That becomes their world, their fellow cops are their island of safety and the rest of the world, that would be us, becomes the hostile world they are in opposition to. They do not start out meaning bad at all, but they learn to behave defensively. It is natural for us to reciprocate tot hat with hostility, but I think that is a counterproductive strategy.

More...

[Panpiper]

@Panpiper ...Continued.

We need to address the cause of their alienation, not the symptom. They behave as they do because they think the world outside of their cop station is hostile to them. We need to show them that we are not. We need to smile at them, talk to them, and show them the good side of the world as often as possible.

It would also help of course if they were not forced to uphold bad laws that turn otherwise decent people into criminals. A lot of us fear cops because of that.

[brunojluc4]

@Panpiper

We need to eliminate the entire prospect of law enforcement officers, arm the people, and go back to militias. We can't have a bunch of badge-flashing people with training *below* that of even the most basic military troops. We're supposed to be self-sufficient, but now public workers are strangling the people they are supposed to *serve*.

[Panpiper]

@brunojluc4 I disagree that were are "supposed to be self-sufficient". A truly self sufficient person creating everything they need themselves would be poorer than most medieval peasants. We need to cooperate in order to specialize, and that requires that we all respect the rules that go with self ownership and property. Having those rules codified and enforced by something other than a mob is a good thing. I would agree however that doing that privately, without government, might be preferable.

[brunojluc4]

@Panpiper

Eh, not we as individuals, but we as the people. So, I fully agree with what you said there. If things were solved by mob mentality, the East Coast would be a theocracy (moreso than it is) by now.

[phillipgaley]

@Panpiper "being self-sufficient" means using your own mind and strength to make wealth for your sustenance, . . .

[Panpiper]

@phillipgaley Ok, I have no problems with self sufficiency if that is the definition. If I can be self sufficient writing and selling novels and simply buying what I need, all is good.

[phillipgaley]

@Panpiper Admittedly—and, whom I have met—there are those "nuts" who move off into the woods—not apprehending aught of the fact that, no one makes their own car, blender, bicycle, house, clothing, grows their own food, and so on, and simply because—than the animals which get by on the might of tooth and claw—we are made to live in that higher realm of sociability, commercial exchange, leisure, comfort, personal preference and so forth

[phillipgaley]

@Panpiper The police need to be trained to be more like JESUS, bringing peace where there is strife, . . .

[Panpiper]

@phillipgaley There is a limit. Conflict resolution strategies are great, but I don't want my cops 'turning the other cheek' when trying to catch a bank robber.

[Panpiper]

@palatiality Ah yes, clearly you are making every attempt to improve the world and solve the problems. When you engage in conversation with someone who does not agree with you 100%, the very first thing you do is try to insult them.

Good strategy. Clearly we should be listening to you because you are obviously a great strategist.

[TruthAxe]

WTG Jerome. Thanks man.

[greenghost2008]

This guy is cool.

[DackIsBack]

Anyone using a camera is obliviously gathering intelligence for terrorist attacks...

[Dedhedted71]

The police resent the idea of the public taking its rightful role as the true authority. They want us all to answer to them, not them answering to us as it should be. This is why they hate cameras.

[Panpiper]

@palatiality Third party has been tried and tried, over and over, and it does not work. The system is rigged, quite deliberately to allow only two real contenders. The best strategy is for liberty minded activists to infiltrate and ultimately take over the Republican party. We are well on the way to doing so, with straw polls typically showing us at 30% of the membership. When we hit 51%, we have won.

[Sparkygravity]

best of luck, jerome!

[ntoiyt]

Horray! One little victory for freedom.

[furyofbongos]

When you refuse a cop's request to search your car they always say "What have you got to hide?"

But when a citizen films them, they get all kinds of upset. What do THEY have to hide? Well, plenty, as we all know.

[MsSarahJ56]

@furyofbongos You hit the nail right on the head. what bothers me the most is people who justify cops having a problem with civilian 3rd parties video taping or photographing. I have gone around the OKC area asking sheriffs and basic police how they feel about being taped. The sheriffs always say 'if the officer is doing their job the shouldnt be worried about it.' it is the basic police who say 'it is illegal' and they really hate it when I tell them we live in a 1 party consent state

[thestudent09]

@MsSarahJ56 OKC sheriff for the win!!!

[MsSarahJ56]

@thestudent09 yeah I know! I didn't expect them to be so nice, not defensive about it, completely honest and real..... but the general officer, thats another story. they are just like any other cops... telling you it is illegal untill they realize you know what your rights are and then they just gert even more defensive.

[phillipgaley]

@furyofbongos When they say "What have you got to hide?", tell them: "My privacy. Have a nice day!", . . .

[Unguidedone]

@furyofbongos they may say "what have you got to hide" however you MUST consent to them (the police) searching your car. you have the right to refuse a search search. they will (and have the right to) search your car IF they have probable cause ie drugs/loaded weapons/explosives/alcohol/ items of interest / in plain sight. Moral of the story always hide your hmx under the seat and never ever expose blasting caps to shock or static electricity.

[TruthBeyond]

More state hypocrisy.

[hounddog183]

MOST LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES ARE CORPORATIONS WORKING FOR/ TO "SERVE & PROTECT" OTHER CORPORATIONS.

NOT COMMON LAWS & NOT YOU. THEY OPERATE, ENFORCE, BY POLICY, NOT CIVIL OR COMMON LAW. LOOK UP YOUR POLICE DEPT. ON DUN & BRADSTREET CORPORATION LISTINGS. POLICE ARE CORPORATE ERRAND BOYS, THUG REVENUE COLLECTORS THAT FOLLOW & ENFORCE CORPORATE POLICY & ORDERS BY THE BARREL OF A GUN. YOUR CITIES,COUNTIES, & COUNTRY ETC ARE CORPORATIONS... GET IT YET???

[032125]

@hounddog183 The Caps Lock is over on the left side of your keyboard by the "A" button. Turn it off. Only mental patients and grandmas who don't know anything about basic internet courtesy type in all caps.

[threepercenter03]

@032125 ONLY TROLLS COMPLAIN ABOUT ALL CAPS. who gives a shit, really, if the cap lock is on or off? You can still read it, can't you?

[032125]

@threepercenter03 Are you trolling me? Because I'm running low on troll food. Call someone who cares.

[threepercenter03]

@032125 Call it what you wish, but you are bitching about all caps; I'm just pointing out the futility of it... that makes me a troll? so be it. You can troll, but if anyone does it to you, your panties get bunched up... typical troll.

[032125]

@threepercenter03 Au contraire. I am elastic hydrocarbon polymer; whereas you, sir, are clearly and irrefutably a polymeric bioadhesive.

And I am very serious. I have been deadly serious about this caps lock issue for years; in fact I was just lobbying Congress to enact greater control over Caps in general. This menace must end. My panties can't get any tighter, and your vicious trolling might just send me over the edge into insanity.

[5tevef]

@032125 REALLY? That's my grandmother you are talking about.  Leave her alone.

[phillipgaley]

@hounddog183 Thank you so much for your use of caps, as I have quite a time of it trying to read all of the little tiny comments of most people, . . .

[capitalist4life]

The ACLU needs to pick a side. Are they pro-freedom or anti-freedom? Every time I start to dislike them, they do something good like this. At least they're better than cops.

[Panpiper]

@capitalist4life They are pro free speech. What they are 'not' is pro-Republican or pro-Democrat. Nor are they necessarily pro-Libertarian. They are defenders of free speech like no one else.

[MrGottabefree]

COPS SUCK!!

[paulrprichard]

Get them into court and have this s**t settled.

[paulrprichard]

Yep, get DC off people's case over camera. There are millions of cameras operated by the state.

[kmg501]

I think the reason why police often find themselves on the wrong side of this issue is two fold. One is that they have been overly propagandized by the war on terror and two is that they feel on some level cameras are a weapon against them.

-

[phillipgaley]

@kmg501 Wikipedia: Brown v Texas determined that, lacking a reasonable suspicion of crime, a police officer may not force citizens to identify themselves - BROWN V. TEXAS, 443 U. S. 47 (1979).

[Thewizzardof9]

Do they even have the right to ask for your identification ? Last I checked if you are just walking the street you do not need official identification in the U.S.

[kd5icr1967]

@Thewizzardof9 yes you have to id yourself to the cops

[kmg501]

@kd5icr1967

Wrong.

[ryanswan0]

@kd5icr1967 No you don't. If you are driving, yes, but walking on the street? No.

[Thewizzardof9]

@kd5icr1967 That is new, I will recheck the law, as far as I know it and this is more than 5 years ago you are not required to carry Identification.

[MsSarahJ56]

@kd5icr1967 there are a few cities that you have to identify yourself to the police (giving them your name) but there is no law in any state that says you have to go get an ID and you have to show that ID when asked.

That hits very close to home with what nazi germany did and it would cause an uprising.

[phillipgaley]

@kd5icr1967 Wikipedia: Brown v Texas determined that, lacking a reasonable suspicion of crime, a police officer may not force citizens to identify themselves - BROWN V. TEXAS, 443 U. S. 47 (1979).

[phillipgaley]

@Thewizzardof9 Wikipedia: Brown v Texas determined that, lacking a reasonable suspicion of crime, a police officer may not force citizens to identify themselves - BROWN V. TEXAS, 443 U. S. 47 (1979).

[Thewizzardof9]

@phillipgaley Thank you.

[UtubeAdminSucksAss]

All glory to the state.

The individual lives to serve the collective.

Obama 2012 .... because War is Peace.

[rubbersole79]

"They" can take pictures of us whenever they want. If the public is restricted from taking photo's or film at any time, we are truly slipping into a Nazi State.

[MrGottabefree]

@rubbersole79 Well dont be suprised, little by little, thats how the scum works!! Once you realize whats happening, its usually too late!!

[loszhor]

They should force police to wear cameras on their person so they can have a POV view of their activity in the same vein of having a dashboard camera.

When someone in power doesn't want their activity recorded you just know something bad is going down.

[cdltpx]

@loszhor Actor Kevin Costner is working with an inventor with a device that is worn on the forearm it has a lazer, tazer and a camera also provides some armor for the officer. The device has gone through about 7 prototypes and is being field tested as we speak.~There are cameras so small that cops can't stop all of them they are small and they are cheap which means we all should have them. Some are motione or voice activated to leave in home all under $100us. See my favorites for cams.

[cdltpx]

We wonder why they can't pay the police it is bc the police are unconstitutional in their actions. You have to do like thsi young man and take it to court. Then and only then will you stop them from running roughshot over the constitution like they are doing. Videotaping photographs audio recording are also evidence! Them stopping us is SUPRESSION of evidence and preventing commerce should you license and sell your photographs for either magazines or court cases they are going to have.

[cdltpx]

@cdltpx He can sue them for potential lost wages he could take pix that can be sold to attorney for pending litigation. Police walking up to your camera and placing their hand over the lenz is assult they have no right to touch you for simply using your equipment in the public. Ask me you should try to use the RICO act on them they are an organized crime synicate when you really look at it they are collectively supressing evidence for the machine that is currently destroying OUR COUNTRY.