or for gtr in a version he may just understand...God's servant must not be argumentative, but a gentle listener and a teacher who keeps cool, working firmly but patiently with those who refuse to obey.
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
wow this is quite godly here . people cant even show a verse proving Calvinism, and just rehashing the same one line phrases....
"liver shivers"? get for real I bet you wouldn't last 2 seconds in a real life debate, but that's the trouble with alcohol and the internet it makes cowards brave.
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@Georgephyl Your "logic" is ignorant and your reasoning is circular. First you appeal to the "quikening" of the spirit then yopu appeal to Hebrews 4 about God's word which you say that nobody knows.
@gtrjunky It is not my reasoning it is the word of God alive! The letter kills but the Spirit gives life! The word of God is quickened when the presence of God is manifested! Please quit with the name calling and put downs! How can you possibly think that brings glory to God? Did you ever think that you just might not get it? Did God ever show you something in the word that you were not taught by man?
@Georgephyl When Jesus said "The letter kills" it was in CONTEXT to obeying the LAW. Once again your idiotic "reasoning" is self defeating because now your using the the bible to try and discredit the bible.
There can't be "unity" as long as people like you ahr MANGLING God's word and inviting the wolves to dine on the sheep. Sorry but you are a walking train wreck with God's word. It's because of fools like you that there is no unity.
@gtrjunky The context says we are new covenant people! The new covenant is more glorious because it is NOT JUST WRITTEN but a COVENANT OF THE SPIRIT! The letter kills and the Spirit gives life! The Old Testament veil is taken away in Christ!
Could there be a veil on some of our doctrines? Could the veil remain until we come into the unity of the faith? We need the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth so we will no longer believe every wind of doctrine!
@Georgephyl OK, let's follow your idiotic logic here...according to you people that are guided by the word are wrong because they need to be guided by the Spirit because the letter kills but the Spirit gives life...
WRONG! The "Letter" is in reference to law keeping and the Soirit is in reference to grace, this has nothing to do with people who use scripture alone as the final arbiter for truth.
@gtrjunky People interpret the scripture differently! When we only rely on our understanding of the reading of scripture without the influence of the Holy Spirit we can come up with all kinds of things. If we rely on the leading of the Holy Spirit alone we might actually be relying on our soul. The bible says that the word divides between soul and spirit. The Bible says the Holy Spirit in us bares witness with our spirit! The Holy Spirit is in us for reasons! to guide into Truth!
@Georgephyl Well when the things you say CONTRADICT what is written then you are WRONG, plain and simple. Who cares what people on the internet do, that doesn't make it right. Obviously the only thing leading you is your flesh.
@Georgephyl Basically what you're doing is saying a binch of stupid things that are out of context and then trying to blame the Holy Spirit because He "quikened" you.
@Georgephyl I git news for you, the Holy Spirit isn't guiding you because you're a disaster with the word and the HS would never lead someone to say the moronic things that you do.
Once again though it's funny how you elevate your own pet doctrines but criticize those of others.
PS, leave your dumb speculations out of it because they're irrelevant and they stink like flesh.
@gtrjunky Aside from how I believe. You my friend do not operate as a christian! You are angry, arrogant and demeaning! Like everyone I have doctrines i believe. The difference between me and you is that I know I could be wrong and i do not call people names and speak condesending to them! JUNKY YOU HAVE ISSUE! What if you just do not get it? Could you be wrong? do you trust in your education that much? If i am wrong you should speak the truth in love! Do you know what that means?
@Georgephyl Well Jesus called people names too so get over it. The Holy Spirit doesn't lead people to invite the wolves to dinner and since you missed the boat on discernment then it's safe to say that the only "quikening" you operate from is the flesh.
@gtrjunky Just saw this! Just because I believe Bells message on Dust of your Rabbi is an encouraging one and just because I think Cameron missed the main idea of it does not mean I endorse his teachings. Things he brings up should be discussed prayerfully and in light of scripture. I am not inviting him to speak at our church. He is out there, Some of his questions are worth talking about. When his followers hear him being condemned they will reject the speaker.
@Georgephyl I am well familiar with how charismatics can be. They rely on feelings and experiences and liver shivers to interpret scripture and recieve personal revelations from God. That's also known as the flesh. Most the time they say dumb things.
@gtrjunky I would agree with you! There are a lot of weird charismatics! I have seen it all and do not like the circus act either! That does not mean that the Holy Spirit does not manifest ! Because some are wacko does not mean that the Holy Spirit is not in us to guide us ! Jesus sent the spirit to empower us to do the works that he did! We are still learning ! God will bring balance to his people!Try to be nice this weekend! I am praying for you! Please pray for me!
@Georgephyl I know what Jesus sent the HS to do and I know that's what the bible says...I also know that many of the things you say do not line up with that.
@Georgephyl The body will not have unity as long as lazy, worthless, watchmen like YOU elevate your emotional experiences (that are disguised as quickening of the Spirit) and invite the wolves to devour the sheep. If you don't have confidence in God';s word then the best thing for you to do is shut up!
@gtrjunky I never said nobody knows the word. What the bible says is that we know in part. The bible says we see through a glass darkly. I think some of the things we know in part are the doctrinal difference amongst the sects. I think they divide the body. I am referring to the non essentials of course.
@Georgephyl Your reasoning is circular... YES it IS your reasoning because you want to rely on your subjective liver shivers and claim that it's some sort of "quikening" yet you cannot explain what that "quikening is and then you claim that it's the word (which is doctrines) and then you criticize doctrines. Sorry but your "logic" fails and it IS YOURS.
IRONY: i've got 2006's "Darfur Now" on my tv, as i flip through some youtube videos.
hmmmm. Does God really, deeply and truly care about us Christians "in the developed countries" bickering and bantering about who has the best theology? omgosh, no. God's heart wants us to love our neighbor as ourselves... and if Rob Bell wants to FOCUS on the "loving ourselves" part; then so be it.
@gitbint You can read about what God "really, deeply & truly cares about" in His book, the Bible. The Gospel is the only way anyone is going to be saved from ETERNAL suffering, which is why it's so important that heretics like Bell who preach false gospels are exposed. This is what God said: If anyone preaches a different gospel, let them be eternally condemned. Gal 1.8-9.
@wherethatat Not only did the 70 preach the Kingdom but they also cast out demons! This was possible because they had followed their Rabbi so closely!
May all believers follow Jesus closely in the Word and may we trust the Holy Spirit inside of us to guide us into all truth and may we pray to the Father for his kingdom to come and his will to be done!
Luke 10 is a powerful chapter! Lord thankyou for your word!
@wherethatat Well if "chooses" those who "choose" Him then He is "respecting" their "choice" and "choosing" them based on something that they do. Of course these things won't make any sense to you because you're dead. Maybe someday God will save you and it will all make sense.
@gtrjunky Since they did not have the Holy Spirit yet and if they did not learn from Jesus (who sent them out) How did they preach the Kingdom and cast out demons? Why would Jesus appoint 70 who cast out demons in his name if they were not his followers?
@gtrjunky You always state the obvious! Everything is all God! Any believer would tell you that! The thing that seems to be the problem is that you do not think as believers that we should do the works that Jesus clearly taught! We do them by his authority however we have to get off our duff and do them! he said go into all the world1 Go is something we obey or not! God in his sovereignty partners with man! How about answering the question?
@gtrjunky "The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed." (Deuteronomy 28:27)
@gtrjunky Actually God would bypass me and find a willing servant! You do not give God enough credit to be able to equip his people to make choices! Why must you make everything personal? Why must you mock those that oppose your interpretation and view on the things of God? Keep in mind that the Jews missed the Messiah because they thouhgt they had the meaning of scripture down pat!
@Georgephyl I give God all the credit because that's what is taught in His word. Rob Bell's man centered techings however are nowhere to be found. According to Bell "the Rabbi chooses you because he thinks that you can be like him" but according to God's word, God chooses those who CANNOT be like Him so that He gets the credit and man gets ZILTCH!
@gtrjunky You are right Jesus gave them authority! He also gave us authority as well. The problem is that we have not matured into the fullness of Christ or we would be doing the works that he did in a greater way. What are those works reconciling the world to God, laying hands on the sick, destroying the works of the Devil Ect. All these are because of his delegated authority to believers!
@Georgephyl So I'll tell you what??? YOU "keep in mind" that ther reason the Jews DELIBERATELY missed the Messiah was because they were very proud of their own works.
So what "works" have you done that are greater than any that Jesus did?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Some might be blind for God's purposes also! Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. All sects probably have winds of doctrine! The only dogma is let God be true & every man a liar!
@Georgephyl Obviously the HS hasn't lead you in any such truth because the things you say are off the radar. AGAIN you mistake your liver shivers for the work of God. The only Dogma is whatever God has said in His word.
@Georgephyl Where does the bible teach that when you "mature into the fullness of Christ" that you will do these things? I think worthless watchmen are the epitome of lack of maturity especially when they invite the wolves to dine on the sheep.
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
@Georgephyl In fact in verse 5 it says that there is "one faith" meaning that there is ONE specific faith. So how do we discern which faith is the "one" that Paul spoke of? Oh that's right, according to you we can't because we don't know everything so who ever mutters the name of Jesus is in the fold.
@gtrjunky There is one faith! We will come into unity! All the body is necessary! I know that something I believe is not accurate and I am open to when the Holy Spirit reveals it by making the Word Spirit and life! We can not believe that any sect has the scripture down pat! We need to prayerfully examine the scriptures together trusting God alone to bring the unity that Jesus prayed for! These things have to be worked out in his presence! They are not intellectual which is of man!
@Georgephyl Yes, I'm sure that you are open to all of your liver shivers and gas pains however you don't seem to know when the HS is at work in you. So how do you know when it's the HS and not bad pizza?
@Georgephyl See if you read ch.4 in context, Paul is simply saying that God has given pastords and teacher, etc UNTIL....we come into unity of the faith.
@Georgephyl It's too bad that your argumentation is so weak that you have to resort to idiotic ad hominems and red herrings. Once again I have not mentioned "calvinism" or anything related to it.
@gtrjunky You do not need to mention it! We both know where you stand! Speaking of mentioning, I do not know what liver shivers are. By you saying that I can tell that the leading of the Holy Spirit is unfamiliar to you! As I said before I am praying for you! Jesus gave us his word and the Holy Spirit to quicken it to us!
@Georgephyl Liver shivers are your subjective experiential "sixth sense" that you appeal to as the "leading of the spirit". What exactly do you look for when you think the HS is "quickening" you?
@gtrjunky The Holy Spirit bears witness with my spirit! Just like knowing I am saved! However aside from that the word of God confirms also. It is the Holy Spirit and the study of the word that will lead the Body of Christ into unity! How will we recognize the move of God if we argue from an academic view according to what we have been taught! How can we become one if being right about doctrine matters more than being right with God and our brothers & Sisters?
@Georgephyl I see so your subjective experience trumps other poeople's subjective experience. How do you know when the HS is "bearing witness" with your spirit? How do you know that it's not a caffeine rush or paint inhalation?
Sorry but the body will NEVER be in unity when we have worthless, undiscerning watchmen like you inviting the wolves to dine of the flock.
@gtrjunky The whole point is that we can not tell sometimes if it is the soul or the spirit! The word of God is the deciding factor! That being said God gave us passion and emotions the quickening of the Spirit can be compared but in order to be sure the word of God confirms! In other words passion, emotion, word pictures, dreams & visions can all be from God. If so they will not be contrary to his word! I will pray that the Holy Quickens a word to you.
@gtrjunky The whole point is that we can not tell sometimes if it is the soul or the spirit! The word of God is the deciding factor! That being said God gave us passion and emotions the quickening of the Spirit can be compared but in order to be sure the word of God confirms! In other words passion, emotion, word pictures, dreams & visions can all be from God. If so they will not be contrary to his word! I will pray that the Holy Quickens a word to you.
@gtrjunky I am not special at all! I can tell you this , I believe if different sects of the Body of Christ came together and sought the Lord in a humble prayerful way it would be fruitful!
Why are you angry with me and why do you need to call me worthless? What if you are right and I need direction? The way you communicate does not help! How much more would be accomplished if believers brought their differences to the Lord and trusted him to bring unity?
@Georgephyl It's funny and hypocritical of you to try and override theological dogman with your own theological dogman. That's a double edged sword so you ought to get rid of that type of thinking. Whatever you come up with from scripture still equates some kind of theological position it's just that you elevate the ones that you like over the ones of others.
Why do we as christians take so mush time to attack eachother. Stop worrying about who's right and wrong when it comes to doctine and start trying to show more love to those who are lost and alone in this world.
@Skuuzz Maybe for the SAME reason you're commenting here about what this guy is doing. Isn't "showing love" a doctrine? What is so unloving about telling someone else that they are wrong? I mean if that's so "unloving" then you are being pretty unloving by commenting about this video.
where did Jesus ever tell someone they were going to Hell? He told people to love the Lord your God and to Love your neighbor. Showing love is not a doctrine it is a choice and then a way of life.
@Skuuzz Jesus told people that they were in danger of hell on many occasions. Jesus told people to repent and believe, the only time He mentioned loving God and loving neighbor is when the religious people asked Him what the greatest command was. Basically all you appealed to was the Law, not the gospel so again I ask you, what is UNloving about exposing false doctrine?
Something def doesn't seem right about what Rob Bell is saying here but do not make a judgment of Rob Bell as a whole just based on this one thing. I don't exactly like what this guy here is saying either. He just makes an assumption and draws conclusions based on that short vid, and then forces people to think of him negatively. I say this because there have been other things that Rob Bell has said that people criticized him for, and I wondered what was so wrong about it.
6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
@Georgephyl Yes indeed, Goid's thoughts are NOT your thoughts therefore when He elects, it is in accordance to His wisdom and not yours and when He sends the wicked to eternal punishment it is according to His wisdom and not yours. So you see Hid ways are higher than your liver shivers.
@gtrjunky His thoughts are not yours either! His ways are not necessarily what you have been taught! I am open to God showing me contrary to my beliefs, are you? I told you before I am from the charasmatic camp yet I do not adhere to everything they teach. The reason is that God has shown me different in his word! Is there anything that you do not see the same as your teachers? Remember that God is just! The passage about God's thoughts also refer to his mercy to those that seek him!
@Georgephyl I realize that His thoughts are not my thoughts and so forth and that's why I can accept and trust that when God elects it is according to His wisdom and when He sentences the wicked to an eternity in punishment that it according to His wisdom and His will. See I don't seek to redefine God according to my feelings and liver shivers.
But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."
“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
@gtrjunky I also trust him! I trust him with everything & everybody that I love! I trust he hears my prayers & knows my needs before I ask! I trust that he alone knows the beginning from the end! I trust that he knows all of our conversations & that he is working in you & me because of them! I trust that no matter what he will wipe away all tears & make all things new! I trust his plan is right & he alone knows exactly what he is doing! I also trust that he loves more than we do!!!
@gtrjunky I do not come against God;s freedom. I believe him when he says, he is my father! I believe when he says that he will wipe away all tears! I believe him when he says that I am made in his image! He loves far beyond my capacity! Jesus died and was resurrected so that I could be born again and escape the second death! I believe God is big enough to give man freedom to choose and still be in complete control! I Trust him to make all things right and good! Gotta go.
@Georgephyl Man is free to choose and by man's sinful nature he chooses sin and rebellion because man is a slave to sin. Man doesn't "pick" God man is at emnity with God. God takes dead men and makes them alive and when they are made alive they willingly follow Him.
@gtrjunkythat's why I can accept and trust that when God elects it is according to His wisdom and when He sentences the wicked to an eternity in punishment that it according to His wisdom and His will.
I find this very sad, shouldnt Christians have better things to do than crucifying brothers. Do we need more divisionism and bickering. I have seen many Rob Bells DVD's and have always found then to challenge me to walk more closely to Him. He is creative and has a fresh perspective, and yes he's controversial, wouldnt the Biblical approach have been to confront the brother directly, rather than to publically try and humiliate and discredit someone who has positively influenced millions ?
@LieslRoome But Rob Bell is not a brother. Divisions in the church are indeed sad, but they are created by heretics, not by those who stand up and point out the heretical teachings of wolves in sheep's clothing. There's much about Bell's theology that's wrong, but to focus on the nooma Dust alone - where in the Bible are we ever told to have faith in ourselves that we can be like Jesus? Give me one verse that says that, if you can.
Help us as your body to represent you by walking worthy and loving each other! Help us to rebuke one another in love and to realize that we have not arrived! Holy Spirit guide us into all truth and help us to know you better! Help me see where I am blind and do a mighty work in all of us! Help us continue to be equipped until we can come into unity and gow up into you!
The Judaizers were not trying to add faith in self to saving faith. In Galatians they were adding the jewish ceremonial law especially circumcision!
Doing good works is a responsibility because we are saved! it does not save us! Everyone agrees that by grace we are saved through faith! The only difference is the doctrine of total depravity that some believe
@Georgephyl You don't understand Galatians.They most certainly WERE trying to add faith in SELF, just as Rob Bell does. "How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?"Gal3.3 The point about them adding ritual observances was it amounted to them believing their own works (SELF!) were good enough. Every time you attempt to interpret scripture you reveal your ignorance. May God open your eyes!
@Georgephyl You quote Gal5.14 but again you show that you don't understand. In your view, loving ppl means never offend anyone,never upset them,always be nice, never call them names,etc. That's NOT love, it's sentimentalism. In the Bible we read that 'faithful are the wounds of a friend',ie a true friend says what you need to hear even if hurts you, and Jesus said "those whom I love I rebuke and discipline, so be earnest and repent". In the Bible,names are used for those who twist the gospel.
@john17v17 You said you were with me & I prefer it that way! You are not easy to communicate with because you twist peoples words and jump on the ones that will elevate your view while ignoring the main point! I also believe in rebuke but what you do is trying to prove you are right! Rebuke is for the sake of others not to prove your self! I have not ever felt a loving rebuke from you! You guys call people worthless all the time! Bible says to speak the truth in love!
@Georgephyl I have never said I was with you. I oppose your views. I have pointed you to the clear, undeniable words of God in his word, the Bible. I have never tried to prove that I am right, I have repeatedly told you that GOD IS RIGHT, ALWAYS! And this means that when ppl contradict what God has said, they are WRONG. It is very arrogant to contradict God. You are a very proud person, for you simply will not hear the plain words of God himself in his word - CURSED is the man who trust in man.
@john17v17 I agree that God is right! It is our interpretations that need help! you think your interpretations are above flaw! There is the problem! Perhaps that is not your intent to come across like you are proving yourself but you do. my first comment was for the very same reason which is that John Mac is so confident in his doctrine that he declared Bell not saved. I hear all your words and i weigh them before God. i am not proud! I know I am wrong somewhere!
@Georgephyl So when the Bible says Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, & Cursed is the man who trust in man, how can you maintain that Rob Bell is not violating Scripture when he teaches we should have faith IN OURSELVES that we can be like Jesus? There is zero support in the Bible for what Bell says about this, you won't find one verse telling us to have faith in ourselves. Not one! Where does the bible tell us to have confidence in SELF? Nowhere! The Bible teaches:Trust in Christ alone.
@john17v17 You are doing it again. Missing the main idea of his message! I have said before he should have worded it different. We are to trust in Christ alone but faith without works is dead! In order to do the works and represent him accurately we need confidence that we are who he says we are! We are his ambassaders, we are his body, we are his bride, we are a royal priesthood ect. We need faith to believe that we are truly new creatures in Christ!
@Georgephyl You might find this hard to believe, but I am praying for you as I post. There would be no point engaging in prayerless apologetics. Doing that is not biblical. I don't care what you think of me, I want you to believe what God has said, and trust in Christ alone. Rob Bell doesn't preach the gospel, he contradicts it. False gospels cannot save. The love of Christ compels true believers to contend for the faith, as the Bible tells them too.
@Georgephyl YOU are doing it again!!! You construct an argument that is flat out contradicted by the Bible, & when this is pointed out to you, you accuse the other person of 'missing the main idea'! Yes, we need confidence... but in WHOM?! Christ, or self? The Bible says in Christ. Bell says in yourself as well. There is ZERO support for Bell in the Bible. You really are very blind, you cannot see the simplest truth of Scripture - that we are told PLACE FAITH IN CHRIST ALONE, NOT IN SELF!
@john17v17 You needed confidence in your ability to send these messages. Didn't you? Don't you have confidence in your ability to understand scripture? Saying that there is ZERO support for Bell in bible is a pretty darn confident thing to say!
I will pray and ask God to show me where I am blind. Can you do the same?
My faith is in Christ! He alone has the words to eternal life! He upholds all things by his mighty power! He is all in all! He has made me his bride, body, ect.
@Georgephyl Bell's teaching is specifically to have faith in ourselves THAT WE CAN BE LIKE JESUS. That is why he's a heretic on this point. Where in the Bible are we ever told that in order to be like Jesus, have faith in self? Give me one verse! Clue: there aren't any. On the subject of BEING LIKE JESUS, the Bible is very clear: FAITH IN CHRIST ALONE. Cursed is the man who trusts in man/Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord. Antithetical. Polar opposites. It's one or the other.
@john17v17 God gave us emotions, God gave us the ability to dream, God put his spirit in all true believers! Holy Spirit quickens things to people. Do you know what that means? Do you know God other than your knowledge of scripture? Your trump card seems to be putting other's knowledge of the word down and elevating your own! You come across like a know it all! You do not come across giving glory to God! What is your purpose?
@Georgephyl Precisely! You make my point for me. Peter wasn't going to be saved from drowning by having faith in himself. He started walking on water by faith in Christ,then he took his eyes of Jesus, he saw the storm, & started sinking.His faith in Christ wavered.When he realised his mistake & the danger he was in,he cried out to Jesus who immediately saved him.The passage is all about how faith in Christ is what keeps believers safe. Trust in yourself and you will sink.
@john17v17 Unfortunately what you are saying is not born out in this clip or the bible! What ARE you commenting on? The preacher clearly states that he feels a biblical case could be made that Peter was too confident? In the verse, Jesus was standing there in front of him displaying his ability to stand on water. The bible says Peter was afraid of the wind, not that he lost faith in Jesus, & indeed he cries out to Jesus for help which would make no sense if he had just lost faith in him.
@maxxxman64 You're an idiot. I say that as a good example of responding biblically to someone who insists on believing a false gospel, for Paul said the same thing to the Galatians, who, like Rob Bell, thought that Christianity meant adding faith in SELF to faith in Christ. You foolish maxxman64! You can clearly hear Bell's words at 1:19 and the Bible DOES NOT SAY ANYWHERE "HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF THAT YOU CAN BE LIKE JESUS".
@john17v17 You have a problem. You're so fixated on Rob Bell being wrong, you blindly defend any criticism of him. You take his words massively out of context and ignore the message he's portraying, just to justify your little vendetta. You put yourself on a pedestal as being the ultimate authority on the bible and the truth & deride anyone who disagrees with you. The only biblical modelling for that in the bible is by those who crucified Jesus. Good luck to you. Read the verse again.
@Georgephyl I agree! This shows that Peter had not lost faith in Jesus. If he had, he would not have called out to him for help. Rob Bell is entitled to discuss why he thought this was. He suggests that Peter didn't think he could do it, despite Jesus, who he had faith in, urging him to walk on the water. I always thought that while Peter trusted Jesus, he let other things (his fear of the storm in this case) get in the way. Showed me that you need Jesus there, but you also need to respond.
@MrTCOBJIMMY "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment" Words of Jesus, Matthew 12:36
@etherform66 As to your suggestion that preachercam "get a life", here's a truth you'll never hear faithfully preached by Rob Bell:
"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him" John3.36
Unregenerate people who love being told how great they are & how much God believes in them don't like hearing truths like John 3.36. They'd rather have their itching ears tickled by heretics like Rob Bell.
@john17v17 cherrypicking a verse a scripture divorced from the overall theme of scripture, which happens to be 'good news', is typical of preachers of ET. Do you relaize that the doctrine of ET is not taught in the Torah or OT, nor is it taught by Paul - a man who devoted entire chapters to the correct use of spiritual gifts.The word hell comes from 4 words that have nothing to do with everlasting torment in the afterlife - Bell preaches truth, I only wish he would radically commit to it.
@etherform66 The idea that ET is not taught in the OT is irrelevant, it is taught in the NT and that is what matters. The bible is a progressive revelation finding it's culmination in the book of Revelation itself. Paul spoke about God's wrath (Romans 2) and alluded to "ET" in 2Thes.1:8 as well.
Your arguments here are the typical weak, strawmen that the uni's prop up.
You could just as easily say that "Jude never said anything about tongues" therefore they were not true.
@gtrjunky "its irrelevant" LOL! Your saying that Elohim intends on torturing BILLIONS of people for trillions of endless ages with no redemptive purpose in mind & holds this information back from the world for over 4000 years and then reveals the hiddeous message to the world through Christ, who is said the be "THE SURETY OF A BETTER COVENANT". How can Christ have a better covenant when it involves punishments TRILLIONS of times worse than anything found under the Mosaic Priesthood? What a joke.
@etherform66 "cherrypicking" - well at least you know the name for your hermeneutical method. You think the OT supports that all will be saved? The psalmist fretted over the apparent success of the wicked - "till I entered the sanctuary of God;then I understood their FINAL destiny.Surely you place them on slippery ground;you cast them down to RUIN.How suddenly are they DESTROYED,COMPLETELY SWEPT AWAY by terrors!" Ps73.
@john17v17 of course.. like I said, Elohim judges sin - this is not in question. That Jesus is the only name under heaven by which a man can be saved is not the question. Men in the OT were destroyed, swept away, ruined - no different to today. However, eternally tortured in literal fire for trillions of endless ages? NO! The Lords anger does not endure forever - the Lord even promised to restore the fortunes of SODOM! Eze 16:53 - so much for eternal vengance.
@etherform66 The message of universalism is a fiflthy, stinking lie and those who propogate it are as well. The fact is that the wicked are cast into the Lake of fire and after that there is no mention of them EVER coming out.
@gtrjunky preach it brother!!! universalists are doing something very wicked, for they tell ppl 'hey, don't worry, you're going to heaven too' when if they don't repent/believe on the Lord Jesus Christ before they die they will not be saved. Universalism is a wicked lie, & one that has Satan's marks all over it, for it undermines the preaching of the gospel to repent and believe in Christ. Attempting to undermine gospel preaching has been a satanic strategy from the beginning of the church.
@gtrjunky The lie in Gen. 3 is that you shall not surely die because the wages of sin is death! Jesus said fear him which can destroy both body & soul in Hell!
I believe Satan still convinces people that they shall not surely die but suffer eternal torment ! Conditional immortality seems to answer a lot of ques.
See here's the deal, Satan wants to do anything to convince people that there is nothing to fear and thinking that you are going to cease to exist is NOTHING to fear. Again, you assume that death/destruction somehow equals non-existance. You see Jesus used the same word (apollymi) to describe the wineskins in His illustration yet the wineskins didn't become non-existant.
@gtrjunky I think being cast into the lake of Fire is something to fear!
Do you have kids? God loves us more than we love our own children! I believe it will pain God to throw those that have refused him into the lake of Fire!
@Georgephyl Humanistiuc philosophy with the exclusion of scripture is no rebuttal. The fact is that the bible never equates death/persihing with non-existance.
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Dust seems pretty non-existant.In Christ, all will live however those not Born again (still spiritually dead) will die the 2nd death and become dust forever! He will destroy both Body &Soul! Spirit already dead in the lost!
This is what I see in scripture and the more I investigate the more I see it!
@Georgephyl Well since we have a PROGRESSIVE REVELATION then we aren't limited to ONLY what is taught in Genesis, we have all of scripture to refer to and since the wicked are still in existence at the end of the revelation then the doctrine of "annhiliation" is false, not to mention that Jesus used ther same word for "perish" in reference to the wineskins and the wineskins did not cease to exist.
@gtrjunky We have talked about this before. You know that I do not believe that is referring to after all things are made new but before. I believe John is being given closing instruction there. the vision of things to come is over and it is once again in John's present time!
@gtrjunky Read it again & again until you see the time frames! The vision is over. John is back in his present time! Why else would it say the Spirit and the Bride say come?
@Georgephyl I don't need to readi ti again! The passage says "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still." (22:11)
Notice it DOES NOT SAY "let the filthy be gone". Looks like you need to "READ IT AGAIN".
@gtrjunky John had just come out of his vision.Transition is in verse 6 Back to his time the unjust are unjust still. the holy are holy still! after that the invitation is given to come!
@Georgephyl Yea John had just been givent the vision and those who are still very much in existence and aware are "outside" in their eternal condition. Notice that the passage says nothing of them in the past tense?
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
6 Then he said to me, "These words are faithful and true." And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.
@Georgephyl It doesn't say that at all. We know that it has not ended there because verse 15 says that the "dogs, murderers, etc" are "outside" which begs the question, "outside of what?
@Georgephyl How are they supposed to get in being in that unredeemed, unclean condition to eat from the tree of life when they are like that? Jesus said that those kind of people will not ENTER the kingdom of Heaven.
You see we know based on the words of Jesus that forgiveness of sins must take place in THIS LIFE because Jesus told the pharisees that they would "die in their sins" so if there were any post mortem chances then Jesus statement was of no consequence. Pluse Jesus spoke of His authority to forgive sins "on earth".
@gtrjunky I am not suggesting that it is post mortem!
I believe John is instructed to not seal the book to show that the fate of those dogs is not settled yet. i believe it says unjust still and holy still to bring John back to present reality. he had just seen future as if it had already happened!
@gtrjunky all I can say is to read it prayerfully! if the Holy Spirit does not quicken anything to you and you think i am wrong , pray for me to get revelation!
Please keep in mind that this is a prophetic book!
@Georgephyl Well based on most of the wacked out things you continue to say then I can safely conclude that your train has derailed again. Not to mention that Hebrews 9 is very clear that man lives ONCE and after that the judgment. No mention of "ok you get one more chance to pick Jesus". That's embellished rubish.
or for gtr in a version he may just understand...God's servant must not be argumentative, but a gentle listener and a teacher who keeps cool, working firmly but patiently with those who refuse to obey.
wherethatat 1 day ago
@wherethatat Well Id' love to explain it to you but we're not supposed to throw pearls to pigs.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@gtrjunky yeah I guess you cut that verse out of your bible.
wherethatat 1 day ago
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
wherethatat 1 day ago
wow this is quite godly here . people cant even show a verse proving Calvinism, and just rehashing the same one line phrases....
"liver shivers"? get for real I bet you wouldn't last 2 seconds in a real life debate, but that's the trouble with alcohol and the internet it makes cowards brave.
gtrjunky has more scarecrows then Nebraska.
wherethatat 1 day ago
Hebrews 4:12 (NKJV)
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Georgephyl 1 day ago
@Georgephyl Your "logic" is ignorant and your reasoning is circular. First you appeal to the "quikening" of the spirit then yopu appeal to Hebrews 4 about God's word which you say that nobody knows.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@gtrjunky It is not my reasoning it is the word of God alive! The letter kills but the Spirit gives life! The word of God is quickened when the presence of God is manifested! Please quit with the name calling and put downs! How can you possibly think that brings glory to God? Did you ever think that you just might not get it? Did God ever show you something in the word that you were not taught by man?
Georgephyl 1 day ago
@Georgephyl When Jesus said "The letter kills" it was in CONTEXT to obeying the LAW. Once again your idiotic "reasoning" is self defeating because now your using the the bible to try and discredit the bible.
There can't be "unity" as long as people like you ahr MANGLING God's word and inviting the wolves to dine on the sheep. Sorry but you are a walking train wreck with God's word. It's because of fools like you that there is no unity.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@gtrjunky The context says we are new covenant people! The new covenant is more glorious because it is NOT JUST WRITTEN but a COVENANT OF THE SPIRIT! The letter kills and the Spirit gives life! The Old Testament veil is taken away in Christ!
Could there be a veil on some of our doctrines? Could the veil remain until we come into the unity of the faith? We need the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth so we will no longer believe every wind of doctrine!
Georgephyl 1 day ago
@Georgephyl OK, let's follow your idiotic logic here...according to you people that are guided by the word are wrong because they need to be guided by the Spirit because the letter kills but the Spirit gives life...
WRONG! The "Letter" is in reference to law keeping and the Soirit is in reference to grace, this has nothing to do with people who use scripture alone as the final arbiter for truth.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@gtrjunky People interpret the scripture differently! When we only rely on our understanding of the reading of scripture without the influence of the Holy Spirit we can come up with all kinds of things. If we rely on the leading of the Holy Spirit alone we might actually be relying on our soul. The bible says that the word divides between soul and spirit. The Bible says the Holy Spirit in us bares witness with our spirit! The Holy Spirit is in us for reasons! to guide into Truth!
Georgephyl 1 day ago
@Georgephyl Well when the things you say CONTRADICT what is written then you are WRONG, plain and simple. Who cares what people on the internet do, that doesn't make it right. Obviously the only thing leading you is your flesh.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@Georgephyl Basically what you're doing is saying a binch of stupid things that are out of context and then trying to blame the Holy Spirit because He "quikened" you.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@Georgephyl I git news for you, the Holy Spirit isn't guiding you because you're a disaster with the word and the HS would never lead someone to say the moronic things that you do.
Once again though it's funny how you elevate your own pet doctrines but criticize those of others.
PS, leave your dumb speculations out of it because they're irrelevant and they stink like flesh.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@gtrjunky Aside from how I believe. You my friend do not operate as a christian! You are angry, arrogant and demeaning! Like everyone I have doctrines i believe. The difference between me and you is that I know I could be wrong and i do not call people names and speak condesending to them! JUNKY YOU HAVE ISSUE! What if you just do not get it? Could you be wrong? do you trust in your education that much? If i am wrong you should speak the truth in love! Do you know what that means?
Georgephyl 1 day ago
@Georgephyl Well Jesus called people names too so get over it. The Holy Spirit doesn't lead people to invite the wolves to dinner and since you missed the boat on discernment then it's safe to say that the only "quikening" you operate from is the flesh.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
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Georgephyl 1 day ago
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@gtrjunky Just saw this! Just because I believe Bells message on Dust of your Rabbi is an encouraging one and just because I think Cameron missed the main idea of it does not mean I endorse his teachings. Things he brings up should be discussed prayerfully and in light of scripture. I am not inviting him to speak at our church. He is out there, Some of his questions are worth talking about. When his followers hear him being condemned they will reject the speaker.
Georgephyl 1 day ago
@Georgephyl I am well familiar with how charismatics can be. They rely on feelings and experiences and liver shivers to interpret scripture and recieve personal revelations from God. That's also known as the flesh. Most the time they say dumb things.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@gtrjunky I would agree with you! There are a lot of weird charismatics! I have seen it all and do not like the circus act either! That does not mean that the Holy Spirit does not manifest ! Because some are wacko does not mean that the Holy Spirit is not in us to guide us ! Jesus sent the spirit to empower us to do the works that he did! We are still learning ! God will bring balance to his people!Try to be nice this weekend! I am praying for you! Please pray for me!
Georgephyl 1 day ago
@Georgephyl I know what Jesus sent the HS to do and I know that's what the bible says...I also know that many of the things you say do not line up with that.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@gtrjunky
I heard a preacher say once:
All scripture = Dry up
All Spirit= Blow up
Scripture & Spirit = Grow up
God has his own checks and balances for his people!
Perhaps some of what I say does not line up with scripture. Highly Possible Or
Perhaps you don't get it. Also possible!
I am trusting the Holy Spirit to bring Truth! Confirming in his word and bringing unity to the Body!
Georgephyl 1 day ago
@Georgephyl Well what you do not comprehend is that there is no proof in your pudding!
The HS doesn't RIP scripture out of context as you like to ERGO you are guided by your liver shivers and your flesh.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@Georgephyl The body will not have unity as long as lazy, worthless, watchmen like YOU elevate your emotional experiences (that are disguised as quickening of the Spirit) and invite the wolves to devour the sheep. If you don't have confidence in God';s word then the best thing for you to do is shut up!
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@Georgephyl your dealing with a hireling here, all he knows is what he heard his pastor or other local loonies have taught him.
he doesn't understand the fruit of the spirit.
wherethatat 1 day ago
@wherethatat That's funny coming from the swine himself.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@gtrjunky still waiting for that verse ,
wherethatat 8 hours ago
@wherethatat Keep waiting swine.
gtrjunky 4 hours ago
@gtrjunky If you don't have confidence in God';s word then the best thing for you to do is shut up!
wherethatat 3 hours ago
@wherethatat I have all the onfidence in God's pearls, that's why I'm not throwing them to a pig.
gtrjunky 2 hours ago
@gtrjunky Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.
but I guess your epitaph would be :(
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have named called and used cliches to the best of my ability.
wherethatat 31 minutes ago
@gtrjunky I never said nobody knows the word. What the bible says is that we know in part. The bible says we see through a glass darkly. I think some of the things we know in part are the doctrinal difference amongst the sects. I think they divide the body. I am referring to the non essentials of course.
Georgephyl 1 day ago
@Georgephyl Your reasoning is circular... YES it IS your reasoning because you want to rely on your subjective liver shivers and claim that it's some sort of "quikening" yet you cannot explain what that "quikening is and then you claim that it's the word (which is doctrines) and then you criticize doctrines. Sorry but your "logic" fails and it IS YOURS.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
IRONY: i've got 2006's "Darfur Now" on my tv, as i flip through some youtube videos.
hmmmm. Does God really, deeply and truly care about us Christians "in the developed countries" bickering and bantering about who has the best theology? omgosh, no. God's heart wants us to love our neighbor as ourselves... and if Rob Bell wants to FOCUS on the "loving ourselves" part; then so be it.
gitbint 4 days ago
@gitbint You can read about what God "really, deeply & truly cares about" in His book, the Bible. The Gospel is the only way anyone is going to be saved from ETERNAL suffering, which is why it's so important that heretics like Bell who preach false gospels are exposed. This is what God said: If anyone preaches a different gospel, let them be eternally condemned. Gal 1.8-9.
john17v17 3 days ago
@john17v17 well how about this cat saying the disciples didn't preach until Pentecost?
is that a false gospel as well?
wherethatat 3 days ago
@wherethatat Not only did the 70 preach the Kingdom but they also cast out demons! This was possible because they had followed their Rabbi so closely!
May all believers follow Jesus closely in the Word and may we trust the Holy Spirit inside of us to guide us into all truth and may we pray to the Father for his kingdom to come and his will to be done!
Luke 10 is a powerful chapter! Lord thankyou for your word!
Georgephyl 2 days ago
@Georgephyl Nope. Nowhere does the bible say it was because "they followed the Rabbi closely". You made that up and shoved it into the text.
gtrjunky 2 days ago
@gtrjunky oh and what part did it say god IS a respecter of persons?
because that's what Calvinism teaches.
wherethatat 2 days ago
@wherethatat Well if "chooses" those who "choose" Him then He is "respecting" their "choice" and "choosing" them based on something that they do. Of course these things won't make any sense to you because you're dead. Maybe someday God will save you and it will all make sense.
gtrjunky 2 days ago
@gtrjunky and which verse is that?
wherethatat 2 days ago
@wherethatat Well maybe someday God will save you then it will all make sense.
gtrjunky 2 days ago
@gtrjunky so your either saying its works or god is being selective? ie respector
wherethatat 2 days ago
@gtrjunky Since they did not have the Holy Spirit yet and if they did not learn from Jesus (who sent them out) How did they preach the Kingdom and cast out demons? Why would Jesus appoint 70 who cast out demons in his name if they were not his followers?
Georgephyl 2 days ago
@Georgephyl The NT says that Jesus "gave them authority" so as much as you'd like to blow man's trumpet, it is all God and ZERO man.
gtrjunky 2 days ago
@gtrjunky You always state the obvious! Everything is all God! Any believer would tell you that! The thing that seems to be the problem is that you do not think as believers that we should do the works that Jesus clearly taught! We do them by his authority however we have to get off our duff and do them! he said go into all the world1 Go is something we obey or not! God in his sovereignty partners with man! How about answering the question?
Georgephyl 2 days ago
@Georgephyl
"LORD, You will establish peace for us, Since You have also performed for us all our works." Is.26:12
Wow, even the OT believers understood this.
gtrjunky 2 days ago
@Georgephyl Praise be to you Horatio Hornblower because if it wasn't for your "duff", poor old God would be helpless.
gtrjunky 2 days ago
@gtrjunky "The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed." (Deuteronomy 28:27)
so I guess God sent you here on purpose.
wherethatat 2 days ago
@gtrjunky Actually God would bypass me and find a willing servant! You do not give God enough credit to be able to equip his people to make choices! Why must you make everything personal? Why must you mock those that oppose your interpretation and view on the things of God? Keep in mind that the Jews missed the Messiah because they thouhgt they had the meaning of scripture down pat!
Georgephyl 2 days ago
@Georgephyl I give God all the credit because that's what is taught in His word. Rob Bell's man centered techings however are nowhere to be found. According to Bell "the Rabbi chooses you because he thinks that you can be like him" but according to God's word, God chooses those who CANNOT be like Him so that He gets the credit and man gets ZILTCH!
gtrjunky 2 days ago
@gtrjunky You are right Jesus gave them authority! He also gave us authority as well. The problem is that we have not matured into the fullness of Christ or we would be doing the works that he did in a greater way. What are those works reconciling the world to God, laying hands on the sick, destroying the works of the Devil Ect. All these are because of his delegated authority to believers!
Georgephyl 2 days ago
@Georgephyl So I'll tell you what??? YOU "keep in mind" that ther reason the Jews DELIBERATELY missed the Messiah was because they were very proud of their own works.
So what "works" have you done that are greater than any that Jesus did?
gtrjunky 2 days ago
@gtrjunky God allowed Jews to be blind til fulness of the gentiles comes.
Rom. 11:25
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Some might be blind for God's purposes also! Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. All sects probably have winds of doctrine! The only dogma is let God be true & every man a liar!
Georgephyl 1 day ago
@Georgephyl Better RE-read Romans 10 because the Jews rejected Christ in favor of their own righteousness.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@Georgephyl Obviously the HS hasn't lead you in any such truth because the things you say are off the radar. AGAIN you mistake your liver shivers for the work of God. The only Dogma is whatever God has said in His word.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@Georgephyl Where does the bible teach that when you "mature into the fullness of Christ" that you will do these things? I think worthless watchmen are the epitome of lack of maturity especially when they invite the wolves to dine on the sheep.
gtrjunky 2 days ago
@gtrjunky
Ephesians 4:13
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
John 14:12
12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
Georgephyl 2 days ago
@Georgephyl Hmmm no mention in Eph.4 about "unity at the expense of truth". Great verse though.
So what works have YOU done that are greater than Christ's?
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@Georgephyl In fact in verse 5 it says that there is "one faith" meaning that there is ONE specific faith. So how do we discern which faith is the "one" that Paul spoke of? Oh that's right, according to you we can't because we don't know everything so who ever mutters the name of Jesus is in the fold.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@gtrjunky There is one faith! We will come into unity! All the body is necessary! I know that something I believe is not accurate and I am open to when the Holy Spirit reveals it by making the Word Spirit and life! We can not believe that any sect has the scripture down pat! We need to prayerfully examine the scriptures together trusting God alone to bring the unity that Jesus prayed for! These things have to be worked out in his presence! They are not intellectual which is of man!
Georgephyl 1 day ago
@Georgephyl Yes, I'm sure that you are open to all of your liver shivers and gas pains however you don't seem to know when the HS is at work in you. So how do you know when it's the HS and not bad pizza?
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@Georgephyl See if you read ch.4 in context, Paul is simply saying that God has given pastords and teacher, etc UNTIL....we come into unity of the faith.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@gtrjunky You sure do not see the words: Reformed Theology or Calvanist there in Eph. 4 either!
Georgephyl 1 day ago
@Georgephyl It's too bad that your argumentation is so weak that you have to resort to idiotic ad hominems and red herrings. Once again I have not mentioned "calvinism" or anything related to it.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@gtrjunky You do not need to mention it! We both know where you stand! Speaking of mentioning, I do not know what liver shivers are. By you saying that I can tell that the leading of the Holy Spirit is unfamiliar to you! As I said before I am praying for you! Jesus gave us his word and the Holy Spirit to quicken it to us!
Have a nice weekend!
Georgephyl 1 day ago
@Georgephyl Liver shivers are your subjective experiential "sixth sense" that you appeal to as the "leading of the spirit". What exactly do you look for when you think the HS is "quickening" you?
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@gtrjunky The Holy Spirit bears witness with my spirit! Just like knowing I am saved! However aside from that the word of God confirms also. It is the Holy Spirit and the study of the word that will lead the Body of Christ into unity! How will we recognize the move of God if we argue from an academic view according to what we have been taught! How can we become one if being right about doctrine matters more than being right with God and our brothers & Sisters?
Georgephyl 1 day ago
@Georgephyl I see so your subjective experience trumps other poeople's subjective experience. How do you know when the HS is "bearing witness" with your spirit? How do you know that it's not a caffeine rush or paint inhalation?
Sorry but the body will NEVER be in unity when we have worthless, undiscerning watchmen like you inviting the wolves to dine of the flock.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
@gtrjunky The whole point is that we can not tell sometimes if it is the soul or the spirit! The word of God is the deciding factor! That being said God gave us passion and emotions the quickening of the Spirit can be compared but in order to be sure the word of God confirms! In other words passion, emotion, word pictures, dreams & visions can all be from God. If so they will not be contrary to his word! I will pray that the Holy Quickens a word to you.
Georgephyl 1 day ago
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@gtrjunky The whole point is that we can not tell sometimes if it is the soul or the spirit! The word of God is the deciding factor! That being said God gave us passion and emotions the quickening of the Spirit can be compared but in order to be sure the word of God confirms! In other words passion, emotion, word pictures, dreams & visions can all be from God. If so they will not be contrary to his word! I will pray that the Holy Quickens a word to you.
Georgephyl 1 day ago
@gtrjunky I am not special at all! I can tell you this , I believe if different sects of the Body of Christ came together and sought the Lord in a humble prayerful way it would be fruitful!
Why are you angry with me and why do you need to call me worthless? What if you are right and I need direction? The way you communicate does not help! How much more would be accomplished if believers brought their differences to the Lord and trusted him to bring unity?
Georgephyl 1 day ago
@gtrjunky How do you know that you are saved?
Georgephyl 1 day ago
@Georgephyl It's funny and hypocritical of you to try and override theological dogman with your own theological dogman. That's a double edged sword so you ought to get rid of that type of thinking. Whatever you come up with from scripture still equates some kind of theological position it's just that you elevate the ones that you like over the ones of others.
gtrjunky 1 day ago
Why do we as christians take so mush time to attack eachother. Stop worrying about who's right and wrong when it comes to doctine and start trying to show more love to those who are lost and alone in this world.
Skuuzz 4 days ago in playlist biblical study
@Skuuzz Maybe for the SAME reason you're commenting here about what this guy is doing. Isn't "showing love" a doctrine? What is so unloving about telling someone else that they are wrong? I mean if that's so "unloving" then you are being pretty unloving by commenting about this video.
gtrjunky 4 days ago
@gtrjunky
where did Jesus ever tell someone they were going to Hell? He told people to love the Lord your God and to Love your neighbor. Showing love is not a doctrine it is a choice and then a way of life.
Skuuzz 4 days ago
@Skuuzz Jesus told people that they were in danger of hell on many occasions. Jesus told people to repent and believe, the only time He mentioned loving God and loving neighbor is when the religious people asked Him what the greatest command was. Basically all you appealed to was the Law, not the gospel so again I ask you, what is UNloving about exposing false doctrine?
gtrjunky 4 days ago
Something def doesn't seem right about what Rob Bell is saying here but do not make a judgment of Rob Bell as a whole just based on this one thing. I don't exactly like what this guy here is saying either. He just makes an assumption and draws conclusions based on that short vid, and then forces people to think of him negatively. I say this because there have been other things that Rob Bell has said that people criticized him for, and I wondered what was so wrong about it.
SlimTimber 6 days ago
@SlimTimber Be discerning but don't jump to conclusions.
SlimTimber 6 days ago
@SlimTimber Thanks for bringing a reasonable response to this.
nargles92 5 days ago
I wish rob bell would just stop talking he is helping any but tge devil...
hellokitty35100 1 week ago
After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go
funny how Jesus sent them out before Pentecost,I checked my e-sword and commentaries and I smell a rat....
wherethatat 1 week ago
Isaiah 55:6-9 (KJV)
6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl Yes indeed, Goid's thoughts are NOT your thoughts therefore when He elects, it is in accordance to His wisdom and not yours and when He sends the wicked to eternal punishment it is according to His wisdom and not yours. So you see Hid ways are higher than your liver shivers.
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@gtrjunky His thoughts are not yours either! His ways are not necessarily what you have been taught! I am open to God showing me contrary to my beliefs, are you? I told you before I am from the charasmatic camp yet I do not adhere to everything they teach. The reason is that God has shown me different in his word! Is there anything that you do not see the same as your teachers? Remember that God is just! The passage about God's thoughts also refer to his mercy to those that seek him!
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl I realize that His thoughts are not my thoughts and so forth and that's why I can accept and trust that when God elects it is according to His wisdom and when He sentences the wicked to an eternity in punishment that it according to His wisdom and His will. See I don't seek to redefine God according to my feelings and liver shivers.
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@gtrjunky oh boy one from the "god is a cosmic bogey man crowd"
if God elects than God is a respecter of persons.
so if election means eternal life
and unelected means death
than God is a respecter of persons because he chooses who is elect.
so in other words election =works because you had to do something in order to earn it.
wherethatat 1 week ago
But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."
wherethatat 1 week ago
“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
so were Moses and Joshua confused about election?
wherethatat 1 week ago
@wherethatat Yes well maybe someday God will save you and it will all make sense. Good luck woth your "master's degree".
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@gtrjunky so are you for against election?
because if I am elected than God would have already saved me.
wherethatat 1 week ago
@gtrjunky I also trust him! I trust him with everything & everybody that I love! I trust he hears my prayers & knows my needs before I ask! I trust that he alone knows the beginning from the end! I trust that he knows all of our conversations & that he is working in you & me because of them! I trust that no matter what he will wipe away all tears & make all things new! I trust his plan is right & he alone knows exactly what he is doing! I also trust that he loves more than we do!!!
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl Then perhaps you should stop railing against the Potter's freedom?
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@gtrjunky I do not come against God;s freedom. I believe him when he says, he is my father! I believe when he says that he will wipe away all tears! I believe him when he says that I am made in his image! He loves far beyond my capacity! Jesus died and was resurrected so that I could be born again and escape the second death! I believe God is big enough to give man freedom to choose and still be in complete control! I Trust him to make all things right and good! Gotta go.
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl Man is free to choose and by man's sinful nature he chooses sin and rebellion because man is a slave to sin. Man doesn't "pick" God man is at emnity with God. God takes dead men and makes them alive and when they are made alive they willingly follow Him.
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@gtrjunkythat's why I can accept and trust that when God elects it is according to His wisdom and when He sentences the wicked to an eternity in punishment that it according to His wisdom and His will.
so which is it?
wherethatat 1 week ago
I find this very sad, shouldnt Christians have better things to do than crucifying brothers. Do we need more divisionism and bickering. I have seen many Rob Bells DVD's and have always found then to challenge me to walk more closely to Him. He is creative and has a fresh perspective, and yes he's controversial, wouldnt the Biblical approach have been to confront the brother directly, rather than to publically try and humiliate and discredit someone who has positively influenced millions ?
LieslRoome 1 week ago
@LieslRoome But Rob Bell is not a brother. Divisions in the church are indeed sad, but they are created by heretics, not by those who stand up and point out the heretical teachings of wolves in sheep's clothing. There's much about Bell's theology that's wrong, but to focus on the nooma Dust alone - where in the Bible are we ever told to have faith in ourselves that we can be like Jesus? Give me one verse that says that, if you can.
john17v17 1 week ago
Lord,
Help us as your body to represent you by walking worthy and loving each other! Help us to rebuke one another in love and to realize that we have not arrived! Holy Spirit guide us into all truth and help us to know you better! Help me see where I am blind and do a mighty work in all of us! Help us continue to be equipped until we can come into unity and gow up into you!
In the name of Jesus! Amen!
Georgephyl 1 week ago
God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.
wherethatat 1 week ago
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The Judaizers were not trying to add faith in self to saving faith. In Galatians they were adding the jewish ceremonial law especially circumcision!
Doing good works is a responsibility because we are saved! it does not save us! Everyone agrees that by grace we are saved through faith! The only difference is the doctrine of total depravity that some believe
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl You don't understand Galatians.They most certainly WERE trying to add faith in SELF, just as Rob Bell does. "How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?"Gal3.3 The point about them adding ritual observances was it amounted to them believing their own works (SELF!) were good enough. Every time you attempt to interpret scripture you reveal your ignorance. May God open your eyes!
john17v17 1 week ago
@john17v17 You said that you were not going to talk to me anymore!
It is not the same faith in self that you are referring to concerning Rob Bell! So it is not "just as Rob bell does"You compared it in the same way!
May God open your eyes! May you see your own heart and allow him to soften it!
Galatians 5:14
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl You quote Gal5.14 but again you show that you don't understand. In your view, loving ppl means never offend anyone,never upset them,always be nice, never call them names,etc. That's NOT love, it's sentimentalism. In the Bible we read that 'faithful are the wounds of a friend',ie a true friend says what you need to hear even if hurts you, and Jesus said "those whom I love I rebuke and discipline, so be earnest and repent". In the Bible,names are used for those who twist the gospel.
john17v17 1 week ago
@john17v17 You said you were with me & I prefer it that way! You are not easy to communicate with because you twist peoples words and jump on the ones that will elevate your view while ignoring the main point! I also believe in rebuke but what you do is trying to prove you are right! Rebuke is for the sake of others not to prove your self! I have not ever felt a loving rebuke from you! You guys call people worthless all the time! Bible says to speak the truth in love!
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl I have never said I was with you. I oppose your views. I have pointed you to the clear, undeniable words of God in his word, the Bible. I have never tried to prove that I am right, I have repeatedly told you that GOD IS RIGHT, ALWAYS! And this means that when ppl contradict what God has said, they are WRONG. It is very arrogant to contradict God. You are a very proud person, for you simply will not hear the plain words of God himself in his word - CURSED is the man who trust in man.
john17v17 1 week ago
@john17v17 Typo- I meant, you said you were through with me. One word makes a big difference
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@john17v17 I agree that God is right! It is our interpretations that need help! you think your interpretations are above flaw! There is the problem! Perhaps that is not your intent to come across like you are proving yourself but you do. my first comment was for the very same reason which is that John Mac is so confident in his doctrine that he declared Bell not saved. I hear all your words and i weigh them before God. i am not proud! I know I am wrong somewhere!
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl So when the Bible says Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, & Cursed is the man who trust in man, how can you maintain that Rob Bell is not violating Scripture when he teaches we should have faith IN OURSELVES that we can be like Jesus? There is zero support in the Bible for what Bell says about this, you won't find one verse telling us to have faith in ourselves. Not one! Where does the bible tell us to have confidence in SELF? Nowhere! The Bible teaches:Trust in Christ alone.
john17v17 1 week ago
@john17v17 You are doing it again. Missing the main idea of his message! I have said before he should have worded it different. We are to trust in Christ alone but faith without works is dead! In order to do the works and represent him accurately we need confidence that we are who he says we are! We are his ambassaders, we are his body, we are his bride, we are a royal priesthood ect. We need faith to believe that we are truly new creatures in Christ!
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl Pray for me & I will pray for you! i need to get back to work! God Bless!
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl You might find this hard to believe, but I am praying for you as I post. There would be no point engaging in prayerless apologetics. Doing that is not biblical. I don't care what you think of me, I want you to believe what God has said, and trust in Christ alone. Rob Bell doesn't preach the gospel, he contradicts it. False gospels cannot save. The love of Christ compels true believers to contend for the faith, as the Bible tells them too.
john17v17 1 week ago
@john17v17 Thanks! Let's keep seeking him!
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl YOU are doing it again!!! You construct an argument that is flat out contradicted by the Bible, & when this is pointed out to you, you accuse the other person of 'missing the main idea'! Yes, we need confidence... but in WHOM?! Christ, or self? The Bible says in Christ. Bell says in yourself as well. There is ZERO support for Bell in the Bible. You really are very blind, you cannot see the simplest truth of Scripture - that we are told PLACE FAITH IN CHRIST ALONE, NOT IN SELF!
john17v17 1 week ago
@john17v17 You needed confidence in your ability to send these messages. Didn't you? Don't you have confidence in your ability to understand scripture? Saying that there is ZERO support for Bell in bible is a pretty darn confident thing to say!
I will pray and ask God to show me where I am blind. Can you do the same?
My faith is in Christ! He alone has the words to eternal life! He upholds all things by his mighty power! He is all in all! He has made me his bride, body, ect.
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl Bell's teaching is specifically to have faith in ourselves THAT WE CAN BE LIKE JESUS. That is why he's a heretic on this point. Where in the Bible are we ever told that in order to be like Jesus, have faith in self? Give me one verse! Clue: there aren't any. On the subject of BEING LIKE JESUS, the Bible is very clear: FAITH IN CHRIST ALONE. Cursed is the man who trusts in man/Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord. Antithetical. Polar opposites. It's one or the other.
john17v17 1 week ago
@john17v17 God gave us emotions, God gave us the ability to dream, God put his spirit in all true believers! Holy Spirit quickens things to people. Do you know what that means? Do you know God other than your knowledge of scripture? Your trump card seems to be putting other's knowledge of the word down and elevating your own! You come across like a know it all! You do not come across giving glory to God! What is your purpose?
Georgephyl 1 week ago
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Georgephyl 1 week ago
Matthew 14:30-31 (KJV)
30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, LORD SAVE ME.
31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
LORD SAVE ME= PETER'S FAITH IN CHRIST
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl Precisely! You make my point for me. Peter wasn't going to be saved from drowning by having faith in himself. He started walking on water by faith in Christ,then he took his eyes of Jesus, he saw the storm, & started sinking.His faith in Christ wavered.When he realised his mistake & the danger he was in,he cried out to Jesus who immediately saved him.The passage is all about how faith in Christ is what keeps believers safe. Trust in yourself and you will sink.
john17v17 1 week ago
@john17v17 Unfortunately what you are saying is not born out in this clip or the bible! What ARE you commenting on? The preacher clearly states that he feels a biblical case could be made that Peter was too confident? In the verse, Jesus was standing there in front of him displaying his ability to stand on water. The bible says Peter was afraid of the wind, not that he lost faith in Jesus, & indeed he cries out to Jesus for help which would make no sense if he had just lost faith in him.
maxxxman64 1 week ago
@maxxxman64 You're an idiot. I say that as a good example of responding biblically to someone who insists on believing a false gospel, for Paul said the same thing to the Galatians, who, like Rob Bell, thought that Christianity meant adding faith in SELF to faith in Christ. You foolish maxxman64! You can clearly hear Bell's words at 1:19 and the Bible DOES NOT SAY ANYWHERE "HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF THAT YOU CAN BE LIKE JESUS".
john17v17 1 week ago
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@john17v17 You have a problem. You're so fixated on Rob Bell being wrong, you blindly defend any criticism of him. You take his words massively out of context and ignore the message he's portraying, just to justify your little vendetta. You put yourself on a pedestal as being the ultimate authority on the bible and the truth & deride anyone who disagrees with you. The only biblical modelling for that in the bible is by those who crucified Jesus. Good luck to you. Read the verse again.
maxxxman64 1 week ago
@Georgephyl I agree! This shows that Peter had not lost faith in Jesus. If he had, he would not have called out to him for help. Rob Bell is entitled to discuss why he thought this was. He suggests that Peter didn't think he could do it, despite Jesus, who he had faith in, urging him to walk on the water. I always thought that while Peter trusted Jesus, he let other things (his fear of the storm in this case) get in the way. Showed me that you need Jesus there, but you also need to respond.
maxxxman64 1 week ago
@MrTCOBJIMMY "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment" Words of Jesus, Matthew 12:36
john17v17 2 weeks ago
get a life and leave the business of inspiring people to Rob Bell - you suck at it
etherform66 2 weeks ago
@etherform66 As to your suggestion that preachercam "get a life", here's a truth you'll never hear faithfully preached by Rob Bell:
"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him" John3.36
Unregenerate people who love being told how great they are & how much God believes in them don't like hearing truths like John 3.36. They'd rather have their itching ears tickled by heretics like Rob Bell.
john17v17 2 weeks ago
@john17v17 cherrypicking a verse a scripture divorced from the overall theme of scripture, which happens to be 'good news', is typical of preachers of ET. Do you relaize that the doctrine of ET is not taught in the Torah or OT, nor is it taught by Paul - a man who devoted entire chapters to the correct use of spiritual gifts.The word hell comes from 4 words that have nothing to do with everlasting torment in the afterlife - Bell preaches truth, I only wish he would radically commit to it.
etherform66 2 weeks ago
@etherform66 The idea that ET is not taught in the OT is irrelevant, it is taught in the NT and that is what matters. The bible is a progressive revelation finding it's culmination in the book of Revelation itself. Paul spoke about God's wrath (Romans 2) and alluded to "ET" in 2Thes.1:8 as well.
Your arguments here are the typical weak, strawmen that the uni's prop up.
You could just as easily say that "Jude never said anything about tongues" therefore they were not true.
gtrjunky 2 weeks ago
@gtrjunky "its irrelevant" LOL! Your saying that Elohim intends on torturing BILLIONS of people for trillions of endless ages with no redemptive purpose in mind & holds this information back from the world for over 4000 years and then reveals the hiddeous message to the world through Christ, who is said the be "THE SURETY OF A BETTER COVENANT". How can Christ have a better covenant when it involves punishments TRILLIONS of times worse than anything found under the Mosaic Priesthood? What a joke.
etherform66 2 weeks ago
@etherform66 I think God told us in the very beginning that the wages of sin is death!
God said "Thou shall surely die"Satan told us in the very beginning that " Ye shall not surely die"
John 3:16 sums it up : Perish or Live forever! This is consistant from beginning to end!
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl the wages of sin is death! Spot on - you said it yourself bro - the wages of sin is death, NOT ETERNAL LIFE IN TORMENT!
etherform66 1 week ago
@etherform66 "cherrypicking" - well at least you know the name for your hermeneutical method. You think the OT supports that all will be saved? The psalmist fretted over the apparent success of the wicked - "till I entered the sanctuary of God;then I understood their FINAL destiny.Surely you place them on slippery ground;you cast them down to RUIN.How suddenly are they DESTROYED,COMPLETELY SWEPT AWAY by terrors!" Ps73.
john17v17 2 weeks ago
@john17v17 of course.. like I said, Elohim judges sin - this is not in question. That Jesus is the only name under heaven by which a man can be saved is not the question. Men in the OT were destroyed, swept away, ruined - no different to today. However, eternally tortured in literal fire for trillions of endless ages? NO! The Lords anger does not endure forever - the Lord even promised to restore the fortunes of SODOM! Eze 16:53 - so much for eternal vengance.
etherform66 2 weeks ago
@etherform66 The message of universalism is a fiflthy, stinking lie and those who propogate it are as well. The fact is that the wicked are cast into the Lake of fire and after that there is no mention of them EVER coming out.
gtrjunky 2 weeks ago
@gtrjunky preach it brother!!! universalists are doing something very wicked, for they tell ppl 'hey, don't worry, you're going to heaven too' when if they don't repent/believe on the Lord Jesus Christ before they die they will not be saved. Universalism is a wicked lie, & one that has Satan's marks all over it, for it undermines the preaching of the gospel to repent and believe in Christ. Attempting to undermine gospel preaching has been a satanic strategy from the beginning of the church.
john17v17 2 weeks ago
@john17v17 Indeed, universalism had it's inception in Genesis 3 when it's founder said "surly you won't die..."
gtrjunky 2 weeks ago
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Georgephyl 1 week ago
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Georgephyl 1 week ago
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@gtrjunky The lie in Gen. 3 is that you shall not surely die because the wages of sin is death! Jesus said fear him which can destroy both body & soul in Hell!
I believe Satan still convinces people that they shall not surely die but suffer eternal torment ! Conditional immortality seems to answer a lot of ques.
Correction to typos.
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl
See here's the deal, Satan wants to do anything to convince people that there is nothing to fear and thinking that you are going to cease to exist is NOTHING to fear. Again, you assume that death/destruction somehow equals non-existance. You see Jesus used the same word (apollymi) to describe the wineskins in His illustration yet the wineskins didn't become non-existant.
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@gtrjunky I think being cast into the lake of Fire is something to fear!
Do you have kids? God loves us more than we love our own children! I believe it will pain God to throw those that have refused him into the lake of Fire!
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl Humanistiuc philosophy with the exclusion of scripture is no rebuttal. The fact is that the bible never equates death/persihing with non-existance.
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@gtrjunky Gen3:19
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Dust seems pretty non-existant.In Christ, all will live however those not Born again (still spiritually dead) will die the 2nd death and become dust forever! He will destroy both Body &Soul! Spirit already dead in the lost!
This is what I see in scripture and the more I investigate the more I see it!
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl Well since we have a PROGRESSIVE REVELATION then we aren't limited to ONLY what is taught in Genesis, we have all of scripture to refer to and since the wicked are still in existence at the end of the revelation then the doctrine of "annhiliation" is false, not to mention that Jesus used ther same word for "perish" in reference to the wineskins and the wineskins did not cease to exist.
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@gtrjunky We have talked about this before. You know that I do not believe that is referring to after all things are made new but before. I believe John is being given closing instruction there. the vision of things to come is over and it is once again in John's present time!
I Have to look up wineskin reference.
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl Sorry but the biblical evidence is against you. If the wicked were "non-existant" then they wouldn't be in existence in Revelation 22.
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@gtrjunky Read it again & again until you see the time frames! The vision is over. John is back in his present time! Why else would it say the Spirit and the Bride say come?
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl I don't need to readi ti again! The passage says "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still." (22:11)
Notice it DOES NOT SAY "let the filthy be gone". Looks like you need to "READ IT AGAIN".
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@gtrjunky John had just come out of his vision.Transition is in verse 6 Back to his time the unjust are unjust still. the holy are holy still! after that the invitation is given to come!
Transition back to John's time in verse 6
Invitation given to come in verse 17.
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl Yea John had just been givent the vision and those who are still very much in existence and aware are "outside" in their eternal condition. Notice that the passage says nothing of them in the past tense?
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@gtrjunky Why does it say the following then?
Revelation 22:17 (NKJV)
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl Because that's not part of the vision, the undeniable reference to the wicked in their very concious and aware mention is.
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@gtrjunky Vision ends here: Revelation 22:6 (NKJV)
6 Then he said to me, "These words are faithful and true." And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl It doesn't say that at all. We know that it has not ended there because verse 15 says that the "dogs, murderers, etc" are "outside" which begs the question, "outside of what?
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@gtrjunky They are outside the city when all that obey will have the right to enter.
Revelation 22:14 (NKJV)
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
That they may have (future from John's present)
Revelation 22:15 (NKJV)
15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
VERSE 17 THE INVITATION TO WHO SO EVER
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl
Really? What "city" are they outside of?
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@Georgephyl How are they supposed to get in being in that unredeemed, unclean condition to eat from the tree of life when they are like that? Jesus said that those kind of people will not ENTER the kingdom of Heaven.
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@gtrjunky They will have to get in the way that all do! Through Christ!
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl
You see we know based on the words of Jesus that forgiveness of sins must take place in THIS LIFE because Jesus told the pharisees that they would "die in their sins" so if there were any post mortem chances then Jesus statement was of no consequence. Pluse Jesus spoke of His authority to forgive sins "on earth".
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@gtrjunky I am not suggesting that it is post mortem!
I believe John is instructed to not seal the book to show that the fate of those dogs is not settled yet. i believe it says unjust still and holy still to bring John back to present reality. he had just seen future as if it had already happened!
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl Sorry but the text doesn't say anything about sealing the "fate", it talks about sealing the PROPHECY. Again, you make things up.
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@gtrjunky all I can say is to read it prayerfully! if the Holy Spirit does not quicken anything to you and you think i am wrong , pray for me to get revelation!
Please keep in mind that this is a prophetic book!
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl Well based on most of the wacked out things you continue to say then I can safely conclude that your train has derailed again. Not to mention that Hebrews 9 is very clear that man lives ONCE and after that the judgment. No mention of "ok you get one more chance to pick Jesus". That's embellished rubish.
gtrjunky 1 week ago
@gtrjunky I do not believe that either.
I believe that Rev. 22:17 is speaking to everyone NOW!
Wasn't every believer guilty of some of those things before salvation?
Georgephyl 1 week ago
@Georgephyl Rev.22:17 is speaking to everyone now but it's not a future invitation the people in the Lake of Fire.
gtrjunky 1 week ago