Knower and the Known

[eznajdj]

Waking Life would have been much better if you were in it

[Euronationist]

"If your unhappy with the world then change the self"

This quote is misplaced in your hippie postmodernistic "let's otherize ourselves" story. Please re-read what it says, because Chinese conformism isn't really what you're trying to communicate with it, even though "change the self" says more about China's sense of passivity than it does about your "mystical point".

By the way: please refrain from talking mysticism when dabbling in science. It's rather annoying and not very professional.

[Engravingsful]

hmm.. If reality is in self intelligent then Artificial intelligent not need to be made. More like try get that inteliget manifest same level as humans.

[emblemOFbeing]

could you please give me more info on the quote you paraphrased about not being able to recognize a quality in another that was not in oneself? Who wrote that? (Lu Chao?) -- I can't find that exact quote through google.  Thanks.

[Professoranton]

@emblemOFbeing I believe it is Lui Shao

[azazel637]

"become otherised by radiclly other others

the more other the others are who otherise you" LOL

[kasuskasus]

"The Tathagatas do not regard mind under the form of know-

able and knower. Where knower and knowable prevail there is

no enlightenment."

[simonodell]

Ive been looking for new channels to watch, nice one subbed and 5 *

[amabodie]

Thats a great quote you ended with!

[cloudmonkeys]

"If your unhappy with the world then change the self"

If an individual is in a dire enough situation then it will overwhelm him regardless of how much he changes or improves or how he acts.

[Professoranton]

It is not the things that trouble us, but the meanings of things. Again: It is not the things but the thought of the things. Even death is not a trouble; the trouble begins when we take under our control what is naturally beyond our jurisdiction.

[alchemistra]

Well done and well said!

Everything exists only in relationship to other-the knower and the known. We should reflect on this deeply, as you have done : )

[MaBu888]

Again, several synchronicities, like a few days ago. This video is very cool, especially the group as seen as one and diverse. If one is familiar with Jean Gebser's theories of the evolution of consciousness, then one can easily detect idas in this video that are typical to 'integral consciousness structure'. Reality indeed is an individual, collective, interior and exterior, knowing and knower. I am knower, depending on what I think I know, the knower or the known. A little like zen koans.

[THEGlobalAwakening]

When the knower and the known become free from each other, probably then is there real freedom...

"Death is a renewal, a mutation, in which thought does not function at all because thought is old. When there is death there is something totally new. Freedom from the known is death, and then you are living."

Jiddu Krishnamurti

[ch. 9 'Freedom from the known']

[Realizalize]

aaand what?

thesis?

[geniusofrenaissance]

enlightenment and the enlightened teacher, a genius produces fine art and the product of fine art is produced by the genius, ...

Cheers!!!

[Cashify]

What about art?...

Its just a game,

which is the same as life,

which is the same as fire.

You will see a glowing ember.

[ocellemare]

Thanks

[TRAGlCHERO]

It's been exceptionally generous of you to share these insights with us. Your videos are very clear, erudite and penetrating. The media environment thanks you.

[Realizalize]

sometimes there are ppl pointing to something

, saying ; hey somebody should do something about this...

yet they are those perceiving it .

[Cashify]

Yeah those other people we are perceiving are so silly aren't they?

[Realizalize]

silly are chemists

[early2it]

I disagree with your assumption that the knower and the known are the same thing..

God can and does manifest His Will in material and immaterial ways which can serve to confirm to the individual the existence of a separate knower.

That's why the truth can be known by anyone anywhere at anytime regardless their circumstance so long as they are of normal mental health and capacity.

Truth can be reveled directly to us, bypassing our five senses.

[early2it]

The people with the problem are the individuals who refuse to acknowledge the truth they know by believing it.

IMO everyone knows the truth of things, but unfortunately very few us have the courage to believe it.

[Cashify]

The people who do not at present recognize the truth that there is nothing but God, or the Tao, or the nondual, or emptiness, or we could even use the word material in an absolute sense, etc...

These people are the christ. The christ within us can honor the christ in them and point to that which is real, like a cup of water but where the thirst doesn't return.

[Cashify]

Both knower and known arise together, and both are illusory, imagination. So they are inseparable in that way. In the experience of the formless, there is neither knower or objects.

When identity shifts to this formless truth awareness reality permanently, from that perspective there is nothing but the formless christ in christ. Even the illusory is seen as that reality. Offer Satan a cup of water, and you offer it to him who is within him. Heaven is to truly love Hell as we love God.

[Realizalize]

who loves god?

[Cashify]

who, god and love are the self-same one reality.

[Realizalize]

quite a short stop, isn`t it.

i don`t see why the words like samsara , kalpa or any of those alike should now be those of choice.

[Cashify]

Why not? Are they separate? What does it look like? What must be achieved? What must be avoided? What can help us achieve or block us from this which alone is?

[Realizalize]

the right question.

you jumped from illusion , everything a feeling to some dude in india.

basicaly from the conclusion that inside atoms isn`t much mass itself or so....

[Cashify]

You think I dance funny? lol

[Cashify]

It depends on who i am speaking with which metaphors I choose.

[Cashify]

Everyone is always already in the highest deepest state of realisation.

[Cashify]

There is no realisation, nothing to be realised and no mind to be still.

[Cashify]

Every conclusion is a lie. Every perspective is true. bedobedobedo

[Realizalize]

that is a lie, we had that before.

[Cashify]

who had what when?

[Cashify]

there i no lie, no "we" and no "before" in truth. There is only that.

[Realizalize]

seems not so much being the case, as i* ve read some of your comments before.

follow your rules.

[Cashify]

what rules are those.

[Realizalize]

having?

so tell me

[Cashify]

I will talk to pyrrho about being "interested" in all material equally, without iniquity, inequity or inequality.

I will talk to early2it about loving God by seeing only the christ within, in all forms, equally without iniquity. To you I will talk about recognizing the true source of all happiness. I will tell you to recognize this source in the midst of the BS you imagine can keep you from happiness, all BS, equally, without iniquity. Happiness is a lack of prejudice.

[Realizalize]

i got priorities in bs, though, don`t you have?

[Cashify]

It's not about whether or not we eat melba snacks.  It is about recognizing both the essence in the melba toast and of this "I" that eats snacks.

The source of all happiness within, which we are, is the essence of the any unplanned detour as well. The number one priority is to recognize the essence in all forms of BS, whether pleasant BS or unpleasant BS.

Rules for BS=fine. Rules for some BS but not other BS being the source of happiness, love, truth, self, interest etc=trouble.

[Realizalize]

uuups an add?

well it is not if i couldn`t think of it mayself , nor do my efforts contradict in this issue....

and well, if I am reading the first letters of a book, i won`t go to the writer and try to tell him something on his topic, am i.

therefore your conclusion might be right or wrong or equal or objective or subjective or perceived or whatetver you want it deconstructed to, but nevertheless itgets deconstructed by your very own philosophy and then? Hitler=Unborn fetus?

[Cashify]

Prejudice=unconstructed?  Yup.

[Realizalize]

look, what you say or write has its stand and so on fine. only that your baba is much more than just a thought of himself. if he has never used a phone before like most ppl, good, but he has learned, perceived spoken and or written about the "findings" he gained during his ritualized meditations, supposedly.

[Realizalize]

This is a short rant on the inseparability of the knower and the known.

and now, what is your finding on how this vid

reflects the findings or the gaining of it.

[Cashify]

the finding or gaining of what? knower and known and the perspective that they arise together? The witness and his object arises together, yep. "IS" is formless and self aware. But as for relative objects, it is a fine perspective.

Or are you asking if I feel based on this vid that professor anton has identified as "IS" and become "IS" in the utter absence of knower and known? I told you. Everyone is in samadhi now, whether they recognize it or not. All are the self.

[Realizalize]

All are the self.

let us say , we `ve established that, and where do e go from there.

[Cashify]

from the self through the self, on God's lap, around emptiness, under the void, into the truth, beside love, behind consciousness, in front of here. Self doesn't go. God is always here, which is nice. You can rely on awareness.

[Realizalize]

toast and of this "I" that eats snacks.

and the funny part in this, research finds that there isn`t such thing as an I, case it takes five minutes in an experiment that ppl see a puppet as themself.

[notonewhit]

Tell me the truth now. Are you drunk?

I've seen your other comments. This does not rate.

[Cashify]

Every word a prejudice. OM shanti.

[Realizalize]

maybe you say that in a nasa laboratory,

or on any topic some else picks but you;

so far so good about comments and vids you made or wil make.

[Cashify]

When you see all with an equal eye, there will be nothing but happiness. Truth is beyond the consistency inconsistency dichotomy. Like a paradox or enigma it is not logically conceivable. It is consistent will all rules at once and bound by no rule. It sees all equally and frames the same truth differently for those with different "rules." rules, measurement, is judgment, prejudice. Forget about rules and rest in happiness.

[Realizalize]

dude as far as you are concerned

I am perfectly fine.

I`ll stick to what I know.

[Cashify]

Who are you and what do you know? What is not perfectly fine?

[SuperMassiveBlackHo]

If you are waiting for the real you to send you a feeling, then what you know is that it is a particular feeling but not others. Recognition of who you really are means giving up these prejudices. It is not a particular feeling, which feels like some feeling we had during or after a glimpse we had before and now remember fondly.

It is being "sent" to you in ALL forms so that you may recognise your self as that which underlies an is the essence of all feelings and forms.

[Realizalize]

cashifies idea, what me do.?

he`s the one .

massive contraditction, which is not, which is but not again, dideldo, ergo tao , or some indian dude...

[Cashify]

untrue BS, huh? Will it keep you from yourself? Is it other than yourself?

[Realizalize]

čovječe, kako buš ti odlučio kaj je ili kaj nije.

skužio sam te i samo zemi komad prašine i

reci da ti je to planet i uredu je to .

ako misliš da sve kaj se znade i kaj se ne zna kontradiktira ono kaj baba aslam kaže , i to je rok i rol samo nemoj intervenirati gdje jedno sa drugim nema veze ili drugih pretpostavka.

[Cashify]

To je misao. Da li postoji u mislilac stvarnost? A kontradikcija je isto tako misli.

[Realizalize]

ako da, zakaj?

ako ne, zakaj ne?

[Cashify]

why is meaningless. Puppets are ALSO meaningless.

[Realizalize]

and therefore?

what`s about it, stating the obvious.

are you stating that your knowledge is the absolute truth?

[Cashify]

There is no "MY" knowledge when indicating the essence of all perspectives. There's no "me" to have a "my" perspective. There is the absolute, the truth. That's it.

[Realizalize]

and that thirtytwo.

no seriously, what about the rant?

give your poetry some light.

so far you`ve applied your reductionism to every topic there was, and left questions unanswered.

and maybe i stick to my perspective, it is the one i have. the straw that you are pulling might

be usefull for a hooligan walking thrugh town,

yet you`ve no perspective to it...

[Cashify]

One starts to fear monsters when assigning meaning to meaninglessness.

[Realizalize]

and that means....?

[Cashify]

Who is not happy?

[notonewhit]

Dostoevsky Possessed:(Might compare Kojeve 86)—Man is unhappy because he does not know he is happy. Its only that. Thats all, that is all! If one finds out, one will become happy at once, that minute.

For what it's worth.

[early2it]

"both are illusory, imagination."

This would be great to get deep into, because I do agree that there is no self, that is to say there is no me or you in any real material sense, but only we are illusory everything else is not.

Self exists only as knowledge or a recognition of our will.

[Cashify]

The self, or christ within, or god, or knowledge, or existence, or recognition or will....the essence of all these supposedly distinct concepts is absolute will which is beyond all notions of us or him, me or it, ours, theirs, one, many, agenda or surrender, my will or thy will. There is nothing but God and all is his will.

[Cashify]

Identification is the belief that one is the actor or doer.

[early2it]

But there is a will separate from ours which does exist and is real in the full meaning of the word and it can manifest itself in specific physical ways that can be experienced by anyone.

[Cashify]

"there is a _____ separate from ____which exists/nonexists. Ways and forms and individuated ones are creations of a mind which is imaginary.

[early2it]

That "will' which can be recognized by the physical effects it produces exists separate from "our will" which is a will that can be fully recognized intellectual.

Our will exists only as beliefs held in our sub-conscious mind, it can be fully cataloged and recognized by the individual.

The will of God exists at all levels of reality physical and intellectual, it can be separated from our will and acknowledged by its several manifestations.

[Cashify]

Everything is God's will. There are no individuals despite the appearance, just like in your dreams at night.

[Realizalize]

Everything is God's will.

we`ve heard that before , how to establish knowledge fro there?

[Cashify]

Awareness or God is always here and "here" has no bounds. To appear to go from here to there we need to individuate by drawing lines. Distinctions are measured as useful by establishing a vision or goal as a relative frame of reference. Our know-how will be collected based on our purpose.

[Realizalize]

i love generated dialogs.

what is your reference on this vision or goal discussed her?

[Cashify]

To hold back the wind,

he stitched together the dry leaves

of the tree with a double thread.

Give double light to your poetry,

to be read head on,

and sideways.

[early2it]

Do you have a belief?

If yes then ask yourself, is my belief the will of God?

If you think it is then how do you know?

The only way you or anyone can "KNOW" if a belief is or is not the will of God, is if God physically manifest proof of His will distinct from the belief of the person.

That is the point I am making, I'm wondering if you understand me or not.

I already know we disagree.

[early2it]

I just want to be certain that you understand what I am saying, that you are aware of what exactly it is you are disagreeing with.

Its always hard for me to get my head around why people choose to believe that everything is equivalent to the same thing when nothing in nature shares any kind of an equality, like what you are claiming when you say its all God's will.

[Cashify]

My view is very simple. There is nothing but God, despite appearances. All appearances are God's kalpa, which means both will and imagination.

[early2it]

I'm following you now thanks...

This understanding you are expressing is the result, and a good example IMO, of the limitation of words when discussing concepts dependent the shared recognition of the existence of some kind of an infinity.

The word "nothing" can not express the truth of what actually is, in fact that is the very reason we are forced use it.

What an irony right?

[early2it]

When a person says there is "nothing but God," the words are unable to communicate fully the truth of the 'nothingness."

Nothing is something in a literal sense, its only that the something being described as nothing, surpasses knowledge.

[early2it]

We are forced to use words like nothing to describe something which can not be fully characterized by human language because there is no word or combination of words we can construct sufficient to the task of conveying the complete meaning or truth of the matter being discussed since it is infinite and we are finite.

[early2it]

Love is such a word as nothing when used of the things of God, that is why you find in the book of Ephesians the expression' to know the love of Christ which passes all knowledge.

My response to your assertion that there is nothing but God is that it is not correct the way you are intending it.

[Cashify]

"to know the love of Christ which passes all knowledge" is to merge with the infinite nothingness, the formless christ within. This is called nirVikalpa Samadhi, or reality without imaginary forms, things or distinctions. "correct" is a thought. Truth can't be thought or expressed in words. But it can be experienced.

[Cashify]

truth IS experienced by all.

[early2it]

Yes, now we are getting somewhere, the truth can be experienced by the individual in advance by utilizing believing as your method to experience it.

To experience the truth in advance of its appearing, that is the main reason a person should desire to believe correctly, so that they might see what is true with their own eyes before all of us without exception are confronted by it whether we believe or not, that should be the aim of a rational human IMO.

[early2it]

You can prove that the knower and the known are in fact separate by experiencing that truth in advance of its appearing and becoming self evident.

That's why IMO the word revelation would more accurately understood if it were thought as an unveiling of what is already here and has always been here, only we are out of phase so to speak with.

[Cashify]

The kingdom of heaven is here now only men do not see it. The kingdom of heaven is within. I am that I am. Be still and know that I am God. What does "be still" mean? If you make your eye SINGLE your body will be full of light. Separation is judgment. Judge not lest ye be judged. God forgives us as we forgive others. Love god with all your heart, all your might, all your soul, all your mind. Loves others as you love God. God alone is. Whatever u do to these u do to me who is in them.

[Cashify]

Go beyond reason to love. The love of christ is beyond the individuating comparing human intellect. Go the extra mile, turn the other cheek, forgive, let it all go. When you turn towards the light you cannot see a shadow. There is nothing but christ. There is nothing but God here now. Only men do not see it. Death is the end of what never was. Believe this. There is only the eternal, which is life. Let individualty be crucified. There is nothing separate. See only Christ.

[early2it]

Look at it this way, our reality is collapsing like a bubble, its being filled up by the truth continuously poring in, and ultimately all of what we see as real will be replaced, in the end only the truth remains.

From the point of view of the truth itself it doesn't really matter if we believe it or not, because at a specific point in time and space it appears in physical reality and confronts all of us regardless what we believe.

[Cashify]

See it this way. There is nothing but Truth, here now.  See it. Only men do not see it. Who are you in reality? A man? Men do not exist. There is only Truth. To see otherwise is believing in separation. There is no separation in God. God is one. God is all, the alpha, omega. "I" and my father are one.

[early2it]

Like death for instance, doesn't matter what we believe, death is our true reality, that is why we have no control over its appearing to us on an individual level and ultimately over the entire human race collectively, it happens and will happen no matter what anyone believes.

[Cashify]

Only that which has no existence, no life, can die. Existence is all that exists. It is omnipresent, the whole of the whole, omnidirectional, unlimited, infinite and immeasurable. To see it, just stop measuring, comparing, individuating, judging.

[early2it]

We are not alive in reality, we are a form of artificial life animated by death itself, there is no life within us or without, only death and the illusion of life actually exist in this Cosmos.

To believe otherwise is to believe the greatest lie ever told.

[early2it]

"Only that which has no existence, no life, can die."

The point however that I think you are overlooking is that that which has no existence, no life is "ALREADY" dead.

[Cashify]

What was never born can never die. Death is as real as looking up at the cube versus looking down at the cube when spacetime itself has never been here. I'm referring to the cube in my new vid.

[early2it]

I watched your cube vid it was a great way to visualize the reality of our temporal illusion.

Keep up the good work friend...

[early2it]

We can recognize the illusion of self, that is our will which exists as knowledge and imagination, and we can recognize any will separate from ours by acknowledging the ways in which it might evidences itself in physical reality beyond thought, as being distinct from what we can know or realize by or our five senses based knowledge and perceptions of reality.

[Cashify]

We do have that ability, called suffering, or samsara, or kalpa, or imagination.

Vi Kalpa, without imagination there is no "we" who is acting.

[prhughes0]

Great ending comment.

Electronic data processing and cellular biology provide us with external examples of the relationship between "knowers" and "knowledge" which earlier philosophers lacked. Clearly, data-bases and DNA molecules store knowledge only in the contexts of corresponding programs and cellular machinery. So it is with "us".