The reason you cant get a phd in prayer or its not an acceptable form of treatment for patients is because it fails. Im sure any scientist would be open to the idea of prayer as the only form of treatment if it could be showed in studies that it works. Even a placebo works better than prayer. I bet your even prettier with out make up on.
1. What do you employ in the models you use for therapy? Do you apply own experiences, or the process is scienfifically built? Like how.
2. That woman has the right approach, wrong profession. He who needs a priest goes to the church. He who does not know self good enough, or abstains to call his actions by the proper name besides the politically correct name needs a psychologist.
No demeaning intended. The psychologyst rule this world, where the projected image is the master.
@Flagamon - 1. Depends highly on the therapist and the type of therapies covered by insurance. Most therapies make use of one primary form, and pull aspects from others (eclecticism). Most therapists are eclectic, in other words. CBT and Existential therapy are two popular ones that come to mind. CBT is heavily science-based, which is why most insurance companies favor it. It is a mixture of therapist experience and scientifically-based modalities/philosophies.
@Flagamon - 2. Wrong profession indeed. Your interpretation of one's need for psychiatric help is an interesting one. I find it phrased rather well, actually, though certainly not applicable across all cases / people.
I really would like to have an example when the need from psychological advice does not come from some distortion of reality. Even anger (which in apparaence appears as a subjective phenomenon) at its base contains the overstatement of yourself hitting back onto the injust world.
Interesting... In all due respect, why would this bother you at all? If a person is not spiritual and does not accept faith then two points here.. 1. A person who does follow Jesus should not effect your disbelief just as a non believer does not affect my faith in Jesus one bit. 2. A person has free will to find a counselor who they are comfortable with and so if the very idea of prayer bothers them to that degree then they can find someone else.
@RedDash1000 - A person's actions are informed by his or her beliefs. A person praying for me in lieu of therapy informs me that they feel that either I'm completely beyond worldly help, or their help - or they are completely incompetent. I do agree that people have the ability to find someone else. However, the job of a competent therapist is to make clients feel welcomed and not to push their personal beliefs onto him or her. Pushing prayer onto someone is exclusionary and can alienate.
@RedDash1000 - Her beliefs aren't affecting her clients. She can pray to whatever deity she damn well chooses. But when she brings that aspect of faith into the therapeutic process, she's doing the things that I mentioned above. It has no place in a professional therapeutic setting. I'm sure many people would simply find another therapist. But the point is, that the therapist is not doing her job by making them uncomfortable in the first place.
@bunnygotfree The point I'm making is this.. In your mind your convinced that her prayers do nothing and can't in anyway help a client that chooses to come see her. This is again why a person can choose what therapist they might wish to see, this is what free consultations are all about, to see if your compatible with each other. I don't get the impression she was dismissing other forms of suggestive help, she was simply saying that she would incorporate prayer into it and that bothers you.
@RedDash1000 - Right, but you're not getting my point about prayer being unethical regarding psychotherapeutic intervention, and in the client-therapist relationship. You're damn right it bothers me, for the reasons I outlined above. I realize you don't have the knowledge of psychology that I do (please don't take that as me being condescending, it's not), but if you did, you would know why her desire to 'incorporate' prayer has no place in therapy. In guidance from a spiritual leader, sure.
@bunnygotfree You may see it as unethical however many people don't and that is why Christian faith therapists are available. Look online on psychologytoday web site and you will see that each therapist has a section that covers what spiritual faith they are willing to focus on if the client chooses. Some are Christian focused because clients seek that, while others don't cover that at all or they talk about other teachings. Fact is that the woman has every right to offer that in service.
@RedDash1000 - I'm not saying prayer is unethical I said it is unethical IN THE CONTEXT of the therapeutic relationship. You are completely ignorant of this fact .It's like talking to a brick wall. You seem to think I'm attacking her faith, and I'm not. Those Christians can seek that you. My point is, if you are NOT seeking that out, it shouldn't even enter the equation, because it's UNETHICAL. She has NO right to offer it in her sessions without 100% permission from her clients, PERIOD.
@bunnygotfree I'll end my comments on the subject here because I don't want you to feel I'm trying to be to pushy. I get that you don't wish to accept Christian faith. I hope you will at least consider the points I've made regarding this womans right to teach in her practice, regardless of if you personally think faith based teaching is crazy or not. Take care.
@RedDash1000 - You're not being pushy, you're simply ignorant of the concept of therapy. Therapy is not teaching. That alone tells me you know nothing of the subject, yet you're perfectly willing to argue something you know nothing about. I can understand not having an in-depth knowledge, but you're arguing points that I refuted based on ACTUAL knowledge of therapy. I don't think she's crazy. I think she's irresponsible and taking the easiest way out instead of become a legit therapist.
@RedDash1000 - Additionally, there are many reputable scientific studies published that debunk the 'power of prayer' to have any effect on the outcome of clients/patients/etc. Prayer does NOT work, from a scientific standard. You can feel otherwise, but your opinion is not based on evidence. Given this AND the fact that her actions would be unethical, it's all the more reason for her to not bring her beliefs into the therapy sessions int he first place.
@bunnygotfree Actually there is plenty of evidence that countless people of faith would say has happened in their lives (including mine) however if someone wishes to dismiss this as not enough evidence then they will do so regardless of anything else. Those who try to debunk the power of prayer are those who simply deny God and have not personally experienced the power of prayer in their own lives so they choose to rule it out. Keep in mind also that not all scientists dismiss faith.
@RedDash1000 - I never said all scientists reject faith, because I know that's obviously false. I said that study after study shows that prayer does NOT work. Like I said, if you feel otherwise, you base that on your opinion, NOT evidence. You seem to have no problem, however, proclaiming your opinion as fact. The shit about me 'denying God' and 'not personally experiencing' the so-called 'power of prayer'? That's just asinine and rude, and you know it.
@bunnygotfree Not all Fathers believe in God, and not all 'Scientists' are Scientists. The Primates are known opportunists, and they'll "feed" on whatever comes easier inside their immediate habitat. That's why we will always have nonscientists feeding on the "bread" of a completed scientist.
@TroyIII - Humans are extremely opportunistic, agreed. One does not assume scientists' motives are pure. Agreed. But with science, by and large, the process of peer review and the scientific method weed out those of that ilk in the true scientific community. Religion has no such process, in fact, it actively opposes and discourages evidence, facts, and inquiry and peer review. "God said it, I believe it, that settles it"?
@bunnygotfree in school systems there are >70% of teachers who deny factual knowledge. They pray, they go to church and believe i ghosts.They are filthy religious hypocrites going after PhD and licenses for work so they can treat their patients with prays and hopes for miracles. -What scientists! :D
It's totally fucking out of line. I'm a psych student. I read lit and I'm starting psych 103 ing soch 102 next semester (taking half a semester off to get some moneys) not respectable doctor of psychology would do this IMO.
@HellsCowBoy666 - Damn straight. I'm still perplexed as to why my professor didn't point it out to her, but he's an extremely intelligent man - he used to have his own practice - and I bet he knew it was a lost cause. I just wonder why she didn't decide to become some sort or religious counselor.
It's tough to say... yes that's probably irresponsible, but depending on what your planning to do with your psychotherapy degree. I visited a church recently where the speaker said that the reason behind missionary work was 'supposed to be' more than just a holier than thou, kill your own guilt kind of venture and -when attempting to help someone in need, he said you have to examine more than just the obvious cause of there suffering.
Awesome! Yeah, me too. Your psychologist sounds like an interesting lady! ;D
I think I remember reading somewhere (and of course, typical me fashion, I forget where) that a very high percentage of psychologists/psychiatrists are indeed atheists/agnostics. I'll see if I can find that statistic somewhere, unless I was crazy and made it up. Haha
Aww, you're so sweet, thank you so much! <3 The vampy thing was a total accident but it's great to see people don't mind ;)
I think a person's religious belief should not be at all involved in their job, what ever that may be. I would say it could be possible for something such as that to be seen as malpractice or unethical.
My grandmother has 5 children and back when she was a newlywed, birth control was not nearly as common. Her gynecologist would NOT tie her tubes because he was Catholic and didn't believe in it. If something like this happened today, the patient would have every right to sue.
Holy SHIT. If my doctor refused me an abortion or Plan B or even contraception or anything like that because of their religious views... 'Infuriated' doesn't even begin to cover it.
Agreed! Why should therapy any different? Sigh. It isn't. I agree, it is malpractice and highly unethical.
TY for sharing your thoughts! A nice contribution to the discussion :)
My gf's father is a salvation army minister and counsellor. The first time I met him he said this "I believe that psychological help and pastoral care (religious) are complimentary". I took offence to that, but didn't voice it because as I said it was my first time meeting him. the reason I took offence was because his statement implies that a secular psychologist couldn't do as good a job as a religious one. Pissed me right off!
Now I understand that religious/spiritual interventions can make a difference in therapy, and it is a part of some humanistic approaches to therapy, but I have a serious problem with it. Much of therapy in many cases is about helping the client grab firmer hold on reality, and I don't just mean people with schizophrenia, delusions, DID, etc., but also even more common things like depression and anxiety. In one sense or another these people are viewing the world in a distorted way...
and in my opinion referring to a religious view does NOT help the situation. Religion is often described as an accepted mass delusion and the clinical definition for a delusion isn't that far removed from it. The fact of the matter is that there is no evidence for the supernatural and therefore references to the supernatural, be they prayer or any other, really don't belong in evidence based treatment.
InModiasWeTrust, dude if you don't want your bitch to be schooled, and insulted then tell her to stop making these videos. It is rather pathetic that you have to come flying into her aid, you should try reading some of your own comments, you are just full of yourself.
@007 - You are a small minded, pathetic troll who's only aim is to upset those of us who actually wish to exercise our voices and elicit an emotional response. I think I've given you enough of those already, and I'm fresh out. Carry on if you like, but you merely prove your lack of dynamic thought and your hateful nature. You will receive no further correspondence or communication of any sort from me.You may consider yourself blocked.
Exactly! I have a cousin who is a psychologist. She's a fundy of sorts, and recommends Biblical based interventions. Granted, most of her clients come from her Church, but I still think it's irresponsible.
Though, I read a book called, "Psychiatrists and Witch Doctors," which outlined reasons why this sort of faith based intervention might be effective if the client believes it will be.
"Biblical based interventions?" Oh dear. For those clients, who are aware of the nature of the religiously-oriented therapy, that's one thing... but for her other clients who are unaware of her beliefs, yeesh! D:
@BunnyGotFree - Hey Sweetie! There is a lot more commenting I have to do, but I'm still at work. I just popped in and saw a little of your response to Raph, thought I'd weigh in. More coming later, be assured! *Does not patronize teh Bunny. Loves teh Bunneh whole-heartedly!! Reserves right to call teh Bunneh by her first name too!!* LOL
I did my best to outline for him that I appreciated his 'insight' as to her mindset. But based on the therapeutic process in a traditional setting, he is wrong about prayer. And that I wasn't biased in relating the story. That's what she effing SAID. lol
That whole debate with him was interesting at first, but his style of 'debating' consists of circle-jerking his own idearz. And then accusing you of doing the same when you call him out on his BS. Yeah, fail.
Using faith healing in lieu of actual treatment should be criminal. On that note, should I ever meet the woman you are talking about in a doctors office, of any sort, I will point out the hypocrisy.
These sort of responses make me very happy, because I am thrilled to know that people are strong/brave/smart enough to call people out on this kind of BS/malpractice :)
Did you have a point to make in your half assesed unthoughtful video. At least I was drunk when I made those comments, I was not expecting your psycho boyfriend to start flirting with me over at my page.
@007 - It's nothing but generalized pop- or pseudo-psychology with you is it? You really don't have anything to say. You're nothing but a troll, and thus far you're the only person thoughtless enough to turn the conversation away from the issue at hand. Your suggestion indicates that it is YOU who has the pent up sexual frustration. Your motives are clear, by the way. You are not nearly as slick and suave as you seem to think. You claim introversion? Why not stick with that and fuck off.
@007 - The medium you are enjoying is what many of us refer to as a "video". Often, though it may come as a shock, the producer of a given video will look off to the side over the course of it, either to consult notes or simply to break the monotony that would be created by staring directly into the camera the whole time. Furthermore, according to WHAT psychology? Aww! Did someone see a half hour documentary on psychological profiling? Good for you, managing to fail even at pop psych.
".......Most liars will look anywhere but into your eyes while lying. Look for glances away, over your shoulder or down........if a person looks to the left (as you look at them, so to their right) it means theyre imagining something for our purposes, lying....If they look to the right, it means theyre remembering something telling the truth." - The Secret Language of the Eyes
"a little bit off her rocker"? that bitch is insane. Psychology is just bullshit it is a pseudoscience, invented by Nazi Germans to justify the killing of the insane. Psychology is bullshit! end of story. Freud Penis envy wanting to fuck your own mother? bullshit.
@007 - Please take a moment to explain how this comment fits in with your assertion on your profile that psychology is among your favorite subjects. Care to expound upon your views on physics or history too? Are they also bullshit subjects? And tell us all about this "passion" you have for women... Seems to me your passion is primarily split between being disingenuous and engaging in ad hominem attacks.
my mind is not a stagnant entity, what the fuck is your point other then desperately trying to impress your cartoonish girlfriend? I use the term "girl" here quite loosely.
Praying only has a placebo effect. I am an atheist, and if my psychologist wanted to pray for me, maybe I should be helping her, I mean she is deluded, there is no god, and I worship Satan!
@007 - Praying MAY have a placebo effect if the client believes in prayer and in the sincerity of the prayers being prayed over them. It has absolutely no place in a therapeutic setting. The rest of your comment, beyond "I am an atheist", is too absurd to address.
I don't care if any of my Doctors pray for me, but if she/he tries to cure me with the name of Jesus and no medicine, then I would require a live chicken to sacrifice and a VooDoo dance... just to complete the ritual.
When a doctor suggests using homeopathy I would walk out of his office and look for a new doctor whom I can trust. The same would happen when a psychiatrist would offer to pray for me.
Does she not look amazing like that? I cannot get her to admit to how hot she is, which may be a good thing. It still amazes me that someone with such a strong intellect and such deep, incredible natural beauty can be so humble. I am still in awe.
I had a psychiatrist use the method of just letting me talk out my problems and at the end would pray for me. Me being an atheist the end really made me uncomfortable and made me question her effectiveness. It made me feel like she was a fool.
Did you ever confront her about that? Or did she ever explain why she felt it necessary to pray for/with you? Did she do that with every client?
Sorry for 20 questions, that's just baffling to me. LOL! I don't blame you for feeling uncomfortable at all, even if she meant well. It doesn't sound like she was a very effective therapist if you felt like that about her!
no worries. I never confronted her because I felt that although I was not a christian I understand she felt she was doing her utmost to help and I did not want to hurt her feelings. I must say I quit going after a few times. I kniow the lady on a personal level and she is really nice. I just felt really weird after spending an hour with her, she would give me an "exercise" then pray for me. After a while it felt somewhat insulting.
Totally understandable. I'm glad you stopped going! It was probably unethical of her to give you professional help if she knew you on a personal basis (depending on the relationship you guys had) in the first place. She does sound like a nice lady, just a bad therapist. I don't think you had any reason NOT to feel insulted. By doing that she was basically saying you need to be 'saved' and that she couldn't do it for you, God had to. Fail. That was her effing job. haha
If he/she draws the line at the door to his/her practice or office, I'm fine with it. If it crosses over in to therapy as anything more than a brief discussion of beliefs (psychologists do inquire as to your worldview to get a better sense of who you are sometimes) then check please. :)
I once heard a pastor say that he had lost his car keys, and he prayed to God to help him find them. Sure enough, no more than 5 minutes later...he found them. Proof, right? *facepalm*
That's what happened, see? God was too busy worrying about everyone's car keys to pay attention to the starving and sick children of Africa.
If I had a psychologist or psychiatrist offer to "pray for me" instead of treating me, I would get up and march out of their office, yanking their degree off the wall as I went, and file a complaint with the APA. Anybody who would dare say something like that out loud is too batshit themselves to be thinking about being a shrink for someone else with issues that are just as serious. Feh!
My concern is that a lot of religiously-inclined people, and in fact a lot of people who don't know a lot about psychology in general, wouldn't be that smart/brazen and they'd let her get away with it. She'd be charging people for pseudoscience and worse yet making it appear legitimate (on the surface at least).
In the class, I probably would have asked her what the hell she was doing in a psychology class if she thought that praying the [insert malady here] away, then what the blue blazes is she doing in a PSYCHOLOGY class?
And yeah, see, that's the thing - I've come up against people like that. I had a friend who was literally getting half-assed non-licensed 'help' from a friend. I was like, 'okay, no, no, no, no and NO. This is extremely unethical! Stop that, right now!' Thankfully, she did.
Oh I was thinking it, LMAO. I just didn't want to be 'that' bitch and call her out on it in front of an entire class of people (especially since it would have been perceived as an attack on religion, which is 'sacred,' blah blah blah. *insert eyeroll here*)
I'm glad your friend stopped - it really, really is. Therapy has strict guidelines and requirements and anyone claiming to do therapy of any kind without proper accreditation and licensing is a dick.
It's like I read somewhere - people like being thought of as good and nice and all, but when it comes to something like that, you might be saving lives in the long run. Literally.
Exactly! And that's why I told her it was so important to stop. This poor woman had severe agoraphobia and anxiety to the point of hallucinations, but this person was totally overstepping bounds, giving her 'homework' to do and stuff - she was also badgering about not DOING the 'homework' and being manipulative.
I think you're right Ruby, and I'd be inclined to do the same. The problem is that there is a certain intimidation for some people on the client end of the therapist/client relationship. The danger, some of which Kaitlyn outlines in her response to you, is that she would be allowed to get away with it. Not just by the religious minded necessarily, but by anyone she unknowingly intimidated. That's where the damage could come in, if she was praying instead of providing therapy...
Well, exactly, that's the problem. It reminds me all too much of the Sablechicken/Jordan situation lately. Fundies are extremely credulous when it comes to info given to them by another fundie, regardless of how stupid or counterintuitive or just plain retarded it might seem. But put someone like that in control of other people's brains? GAH! RUN AWAYYYYYYY!
...outside of a specifically Christian environment. Pray if you want, but don't use it as a substitute for actual therapy. Therapy works, and it's been proven scientifically. Prayer does NOT work, and that has also been proven! Maybe you should mention "Christian Victim's Advocate" to her if she is serious about wanting a career in any aspect of the field outside of a Christian-only environment.
"A little bit off her rocker" is an understatement, it would seem... I think this woman would do well in the capacity of a chaplain or "spiritual advisor" for a specifically Christian counselling service, but she has no business becoming a psychologist. If she really believes this stuff, there's no way she'll sqeak out a Ph.D. anyway, so there's probably no reason to worry. As to the therapeutic environment... There may be some merit in that, but again, I don't think it has any place...
I was a Social Work major and a Psych/Soc major at different points in my life (administrative fuck ups are fun) Using prayer with difficult clients is only acceptable if the client has his/her faith. BUT since borderline clients are often delusional in regards to spiritual beliefs, its difficult to walk that line. In considering that she was in a cult, she could be disastrous in some clients lives.
Bill Hicks is one of my faves of all time comedic gold.
@ kelliko70 exactly what i was thinking but im not experienced in psych or social work as you are but i understand for someone who believes praying and putting the healing in thier faith can be similar to a placebo effect? they may feel better and you dont have to recommend other treatment or medications. some people's problems may stem from not having a supportive environment or unable to identify one?
That's fine in a religiously-oriented setting, but that 'placebo' effect is not actual therapy. It will not help a client like actual therapy will.
Neither is just sitting with a therapist and talking. Both are manifestations of an incompetent therapist and therapy.
After all, if you pray to some omnipotent being who you think controls the actions of others, what's the point in trying to give them therapy in the first place? lol. Why not just set up a prayer hot line or something?
because a hotline isnt the same face to face interaction as sitting with someone discussing and praying. its not just the act of prayer you have to look at. to someone who beleives in that stuff to see someone is taking the care and time to do something they respect greatly might have a healing effect, not just the idea they are praying.
It might have a healing effect of sorts, but it still has no place in a traditional therapeutic setting. If you want people to pray to you and the face-to-face interaction is important to you, seek out a spiritual "leader", pastor, minster, priest, whatever. The therapist's job is to dig out the problem and solve it. Praying merely discards the problem and, even if God DID exist, passes the buck.
AND that healing effect would be perceptual to the believer rather than a true "real" measurable effect. Prayer doesn't work. It really is that simple. Neither do sugar pills, unless the person receiving them thinks they're getting medicine, hence the placebo effect. The prayer placebo should, if at all, (again) come from the church not the therapist.
Again, that's not therapy. Prayer is an act. It's an act of worship, and as such belongs in a religious setting. If that's what that person needs, he/she can get it from a spiritual adviser/pastor/some other church leader. Some research into the therapeutic process might benefit your understanding of why prayer has no place in it as a 'treatment.'
If you don't believe me, you're more than welcome to call up some practicing psychologists and ask them if they would ONLY pray for their clients.
why would i need to ask someone else?didnt you state in the video this entire discussion took place in a classroom? so you were in the presence of someone more knowledgeable than you, the woman who proposed the prayer, or anyone posting comments here. there isnt really much discussion to your question since you cant remember and unbiasedly what was said nor did you give the response of i assume the person incharge of class. maybe you should have asked the teacher not me
As I recall, I didn't ask you anything? I said you can call psychologists and ask them if they'd pray for their clients. Which I still invite you to do.
She didn't propose "the" prayer. She proposed PRAYER. Period. As THE way to "provide" therapy to her clients. Which is patent bullshit.
And to suggest otherwise means you don't know anything about psychology. I already outlined for you where prayer fits into any 'therapeutic' process.
and going off your paraphrasing which is all we have the christian lady did sound as if prayer wasnt the only option. she said she would do everything she could as you put it. that sounds to me like the person is difficult and unresponsive to everything but prayer, or the peace of mind someone is praying for them. and she is doing this instead of quicken her judgement as untreatable and dismissing them
In the context of what I said, she said she do everything for them prayer-wise, NOT as a psychologist.
The difficult clients are the LEAST likely to benefit from nothing but prayer. That would do nothing but MORE harm than good. I hope you don't think praying for a schizophrenic client will cure them.
you asked everyone in general 0:23 and again at the end
but im guessing now that its obvious you werent sincere in gathering responses nor did you accurately quote the woman you are just trolling for "like " responses to yours. not earnestly interested in thoughts or again YOU would have went to the teacher not suggest to me,someone who really doesnt give much shit about this that i should look into it.
I apologize - I thought you meant in my last comment. Yes, I was interested in getting responses, otherwise why would I have created this video?
I *said* that I was paraphrasing, but that doesn't mean I didn't get her central point from her, which is that prayer was her only method for inducing change in a patient.
I did talk to my professor about her beliefs, and he assured me they were just as unfounded as I thought they were. Again, if you think I'm wrong, talk to practicing psychologists.
but im not saying you are wrong on not trying to utilize prayer into treatment or that i think that you are i just feel it might be situational. if theres a person that cant be helped and you know it. there isnt much you can do besides pray if you believe in that sort of thing. maybe the lady meant it was more for her to help her cope with knowing she did all she could and didnt prevail. i just came by anyway because you look like a vampire.
Thank you for not only sharing how little you know but also taking the time to patronize Kaitlyn. Just what does her appearance have to do with her argumentation? She is absolutely correct about not utilizing prayer in a therapeutic setting. If one desires prayer, one should seek Christian- or religion-specific counseling, and the context Kaitlyn speaks in here is that of the traditional setting. Is that clear enough for you!?
whats clear is you are clearly one of those teat suckiling types that others on YT complain about. with your late, blatently pointless, response where you weakly comprehended the interaction between "kaitlyn" and i. using her real name also suggests your response is more of an attempt of bristling up to show her internet manliness ot perhaps just butt hurt i said she looked nice.
The fact that he's my boyfriend gives him every reason to use my first name. FYI. Your "you're cute" comment WAS patronizing in response to my apology. I didn't address it because I thought responding to your assertion that prayer could 'work' on difficult clients has a place in traditional therapy.
I love the irony of you accusing him of 'weakly comprehending' our discussion when you failed to make any reasonable, founded counterpoint to his argument. Or mine.
"I didn't address it because I thought responding to your assertion that prayer could 'work' on difficult clients has a place in traditional therapy"
should read
I didn't address it because I thought responding to your assertion that prayer could 'work' on difficult clients has a place in traditional therapy was far more important."
why would i even bother making a counter point to his argument when both you and him really argued in circles. this entire "argument" has really been your opinion anyway as i had stated from before you biasedly portrayed the scenario from the start, and from your other video you do sound very phobic of fundies. then we didnt even hear what the authority in the room (your teacher) had to say on the matter verbatim. its not my job to do the research for your point, its yours and then present it.
I did just that, in discussion form, and you can't argue against my point orMatt's worth crap. My discussion WOULD be based on my opinion wouldn't it? WTF is your point?
You really don't have one and you're grasping at straws. Just because you can't debunk someone doesn't mean they 'argue in circles.'
The irony is, I did just that - researched my point and presented it. If you're going to argue against it it IS your job to do the same for your side. If you don't want to sound like an asshat.
And I love how you deflected it back onto me when I called you out about him using my name and you being patronizing. Way to go.
I didn't mention what my teacher said because I wanted to see what everyone else said, and if it came up in the context of the convo, I would mention it. LIKE I DID. My memory of what she said isn't biased, just SUMMARIZED.
It's strangely enough like debating a fundamentalist Christian. Hmm.
@Raphael2885 - You have nothing left to say, and it would be in your best interest to stop trying until you have a point. You are merely putting your own ignorance on display. However entertaining it may be, I am not interested in repeating myself. If you have an argument, present it. If you genuinely see my argument as circular, I can only assume that you are unclear as to what circular reasoning is. Please make your point or try a new tactic.
Ah yes, so here we are. The end of the argument. This is my favorite part... You know, where the losing party ceases any attempt at respectful exchange and resorts to ad hominem attacks exclusively. Thank you for your concession, though I was already aware of having won the debate. That's #1. #2 - I would consider purchasing a dictionary or composing your comments in an application with SpellCheck available. #3- You never responded to me directly which suggests that I was in the...
...position of strength from the beginning. Any appearance of weakness was my attempt to dumb-down my argument to your level in the hopes that you would understand it and respond in kind. Clearly I didn't simplify it quite enough for you. You have my apologies. Next, the reason I refer to Kaitlyn as "Kaitlyn" is because that is the name she uses to introduce herself in the video. Rather than "bristlilng up" as you suggest, I was trying to show her a modicum of respect...
...unlike yourself. Telling me that you were saying she looked nice is disingenuous at best. You were not passing a compliment, but were patronizing her as has been made clear. Well, clear to everyone else at least. If you think she looks nice, by all means tell her! The fact that she's my girlfriend does not mean I have any issue with her being complimented or even hit on. I take such comments as compliments myself. But don't try to lie your way out of being a jerk...
and since she seemed to genuinely ask what were peoples thoughts on the on the woman's comments i thought it would be more beneficial for her if someone tried to respond from the christian lady's point of view,giving her the benefit of doubt she isnt that crazy instead of another monotonous, droning, praise troll response such as yours or just hitting a thumbs up on everyone's comments. you are doing more littering than me, again just posting the same biased "shit" as everyone else.
Thank you for taking up her side and providing arguments from her perspective. It was interesting to consider them and to ultimately shed light on the context of prayer as NOT belonging in the traditional therapy process, for the arguments we discussed above. I appreciate the opportunity to rationalize WHY prayer doesn't belong in therapy and share my opinions and get insight as to her mindset.
In the beginning you did show an interest in taking up the Christian lady's side, but that quickly devolved into simple nastiness as your comments went on. You couldn't take the heat when you were disagreed with, and I think that should make you think twice before ever again accusing someone else of weakness. Further, my acknowledging that I agree with an argument does not make me a praise troll. It just means I agree. But again, it just goes to show who and what you really are. Pathetic.
Finally, where exactly does the truth lie for you, Raphael? You tell us that you are taking up the lady's side, yet you quickly start attacking me personally rather than debunking my argument. You also tell us that you really don't care about this stuff, yet here you are... If you care, please argue in kind. If you don't, you are continuing to litter here, as I said before. And if my arguments have no value, fine. But tell me why instead of getting personal. Cheers.
and maybe im just in disbelief that this lady would be taking psychology courses with intent to practice. then once she graduated only practiced using prayer. that would just be an enormous waste of time and money. if thats how she is though she would have saved so much by forging a degree and a license
I totally agree! Haha. Given the depth of this lady's beliefs tho, I wouldn't be surprised if she did just that. She is that far gone.
"there isnt much you can do besides pray if you believe in that sort of thing. "
If you have a client you honestly feel you can't help, you refer them to someone who can. You do everything you can to GET them that help that you can't provide. Prayer still doesn't enter the equation.
Why would you so constantly and consistently respond if you "really don't give much of a shit" to put your words in context with the grammar corrected? Why litter up someone's comment forum with your nonsense if you don't care?
I think that if a client wants to discuss his/her faith, that's fine. If he/she wants prayer though, the church is the place to turn to, not the therapist. I don't think prayer has any place whatsoever in the traditional psychotherapist's office, as it is not therapeutic. Minor placebo type benefits might result from prayer, but the therapist is not an appropriate source. If I were the Psychologist in the situation, I would not reject it outright, but aim her toward a spiritual "leader"...
like the vampire look (Ventrue would be my guess??) prayer can never get in the way of treatment if the patient doesnt choose that. (and in most cases choosing prayer is a bad idea)
I KNOW! Apparently I'm a freak for hating it! I hate coffee too. I can tolerate garlic small amounts tho... Go figure, Matt LOVES garlic... BLEGH. haha
I'm thinking I could pull one off! I'm 90% vamp-looking anyway! Haha. I'm an art student too, so I could just play it off as part of my 'mystique.' SNORT. hahaha
No, not "APPARENTLY". Garlic is quite possibly ze best thing ever. Like, EVER. That is magnitude you can't even begin to wrap thine head around. But I shall forgive you because you denounce coffee. You are again my hero. You may live.
If I was on the verge of snapping and going on a homicidal rampage, and my psychiatrist told me she'd pray for me...that would do it. That would be the straw that broke the metaphorical's back...and I'd start with her, too.
So to all the prospective psychologists and psychiatrists out there...don't tell your patients you'll pray for them. It could be the last thing you'll ever do.
Once there was a show on BBC Radio 1 about how police officers would pray that crimes would be solved. The best comment came from a Scotsman who rang in to say 'The people of Britain are praying that the Police would do their job'
If I went to a psychologist that suggested prayer over actually providing the services that I was looking for, I would walk out and not pay her a dime. Honestly, if someone is in this line of work and they are suggesting prayer works over what they have learned to get the degree in psychology, they should consider another profession. Sounds like she would be better suited for working in a church than becoming a psychologist.
I hope to her God that she does end up in some sort of church therapy!!
I totally agree. It's like she didn't internalize a single thing she learned about all the disorders she's learned about, in a single psychology class EVER. I find that dangerous and completely irresponsible and unprofessional... I'm so sick of religion getting a free pass when it comes to this shit.
If this woman honestly believes that closing her eyes and asking her magic invisible friend to grant her wish and make her client better than she is well past the fence of malpractice. And i would not want to deal with her should i look for therapy
The point being is that my person views conflict with hers so i can't judge. This is not true for everyone and some people will want this type of (what i consider) dangerous bullshit.
I'm right there with you... Even if you ARE religious, she is NOT providing you with any kind of actual therapy by just listening and praying on your behalf. I too would also consider it malpractice. A therapeutic environment is not the same as providing therapy. I would say the same thing about a psychologist who just listens to you and doesn't provide therapy as well (though that's more to do with competency than personal beliefs)
I agree... I mean, what happens if this woman is somebody's last resort? They've run the gamut of psychology and have found no one or, worse yet, they've been betrayed by a former therapist. They decide to give it one last go, and find this woman? Who won't even do real therapy? She could wind up doing someone who NEEDS help serious damage. I think she should consider a different career.
"Neither in my private life nor in my writings, have I ever made a secret of being an out-and-out unbeliever."
Sigmund Freud
But not with standing that quote. I have heard that there are a lot of christian Psychiatrists who apparently sift what they have learned in school through a christian sieve of sorts.
For me, we live in a real word of sometimes complex mixtures of opposing interests. She will have her niche and you will have yours is my guess.
Very nicely put! This is pretty much exactly how I feel, with the caveat that though I do respect the rights of psychologists/psychiatrists to ascribe to whatever beliefs they want, I think that religious beliefs to a large extent should be kept out of their professional setting. Unless the clients are aware that they are engaging in therapy - ACTUAL therapy, not what she described - with someone who will 'pray' on their behalf. I don't think that prayer is in any way ...
A proper form of therapeutic intervention, ESPECIALLY not with the difficult clients about which we were talking in that scenario. I think it's like a doctor saying "I have medical expertise and I could give you this med that would cure you, but let's pray instead."
As long as the therapist is providing actual therapy, instead of just praying for his/her clients, I agree religiously overtoned therapy has its own niche. My issue is with just praying for clients in lieu of providing real therapy.
Hmm why do these people think that believing in prayer makes it work?
They will try and tell you that they have witnessed it working...bullshit. I am just sick to death of people telling me they will pray for my younger brother (who has muscular dystrophy), and having to explain what kind of disease it is and that the medical profession doesn't have a cure so how the hell is muttering some words to a unknown being make it all better?Grrr
I can't even imagine how frustrating that must be and condescending that must be for you. Sadbunnyface :C
I'm sure that those sample people are the ones who pray for Jeebus to help them when they get ill, and then praise and thank Jeebus when they get better from ACTUAL medical intervention. The ignorance of that... It leaves me speechless (which doesn't happen often, lol).
Sorry to hear that... My issue with it is that prayer is done by the pious in an attempt to make themselves feel better. They can say that they've done something, and if they are deeply enough set in their faith, they might actually believe it. The point is that prayer is much more beneficial for the one doing it than for the person being prayed for. And it only benefits the person doing the praying if they actually believe they're doing something.
I agree, sad thing is the ones doing the praying could be helping in other ways...seems there energy is being wasted, and usually I am all for people doing things that make them feel better...but there are other more helpful ways to do that.
Next time one of them does that, you could say something like "I appreciate your concern, but if you really care about his well being, why don't you donate to X charity? They're working to find an actual cure instead of praying for one."
cool beans. its always amazing that any could think that even IF there were a God running the universe, that such and entity would disrupt the system he set in place, just cos someone prayed.
if prayer worked, there'd be a heck of a lot more lottery winners.
The reason you cant get a phd in prayer or its not an acceptable form of treatment for patients is because it fails. Im sure any scientist would be open to the idea of prayer as the only form of treatment if it could be showed in studies that it works. Even a placebo works better than prayer. I bet your even prettier with out make up on.
sariglenn 8 months ago
Two questions:
1. What do you employ in the models you use for therapy? Do you apply own experiences, or the process is scienfifically built? Like how.
2. That woman has the right approach, wrong profession. He who needs a priest goes to the church. He who does not know self good enough, or abstains to call his actions by the proper name besides the politically correct name needs a psychologist.
No demeaning intended. The psychologyst rule this world, where the projected image is the master.
Flagamon 1 year ago
@Flagamon - 1. Depends highly on the therapist and the type of therapies covered by insurance. Most therapies make use of one primary form, and pull aspects from others (eclecticism). Most therapists are eclectic, in other words. CBT and Existential therapy are two popular ones that come to mind. CBT is heavily science-based, which is why most insurance companies favor it. It is a mixture of therapist experience and scientifically-based modalities/philosophies.
bunnygotfree 1 year ago
@Flagamon - 2. Wrong profession indeed. Your interpretation of one's need for psychiatric help is an interesting one. I find it phrased rather well, actually, though certainly not applicable across all cases / people.
bunnygotfree 1 year ago
I really would like to have an example when the need from psychological advice does not come from some distortion of reality. Even anger (which in apparaence appears as a subjective phenomenon) at its base contains the overstatement of yourself hitting back onto the injust world.
Flagamon 1 year ago
Interesting... In all due respect, why would this bother you at all? If a person is not spiritual and does not accept faith then two points here.. 1. A person who does follow Jesus should not effect your disbelief just as a non believer does not affect my faith in Jesus one bit. 2. A person has free will to find a counselor who they are comfortable with and so if the very idea of prayer bothers them to that degree then they can find someone else.
RedDash1000 1 year ago
@RedDash1000 - A person's actions are informed by his or her beliefs. A person praying for me in lieu of therapy informs me that they feel that either I'm completely beyond worldly help, or their help - or they are completely incompetent. I do agree that people have the ability to find someone else. However, the job of a competent therapist is to make clients feel welcomed and not to push their personal beliefs onto him or her. Pushing prayer onto someone is exclusionary and can alienate.
bunnygotfree 1 year ago
@RedDash1000 - Her beliefs aren't affecting her clients. She can pray to whatever deity she damn well chooses. But when she brings that aspect of faith into the therapeutic process, she's doing the things that I mentioned above. It has no place in a professional therapeutic setting. I'm sure many people would simply find another therapist. But the point is, that the therapist is not doing her job by making them uncomfortable in the first place.
bunnygotfree 1 year ago
@bunnygotfree The point I'm making is this.. In your mind your convinced that her prayers do nothing and can't in anyway help a client that chooses to come see her. This is again why a person can choose what therapist they might wish to see, this is what free consultations are all about, to see if your compatible with each other. I don't get the impression she was dismissing other forms of suggestive help, she was simply saying that she would incorporate prayer into it and that bothers you.
RedDash1000 1 year ago
@RedDash1000 - Right, but you're not getting my point about prayer being unethical regarding psychotherapeutic intervention, and in the client-therapist relationship. You're damn right it bothers me, for the reasons I outlined above. I realize you don't have the knowledge of psychology that I do (please don't take that as me being condescending, it's not), but if you did, you would know why her desire to 'incorporate' prayer has no place in therapy. In guidance from a spiritual leader, sure.
bunnygotfree 1 year ago
@bunnygotfree You may see it as unethical however many people don't and that is why Christian faith therapists are available. Look online on psychologytoday web site and you will see that each therapist has a section that covers what spiritual faith they are willing to focus on if the client chooses. Some are Christian focused because clients seek that, while others don't cover that at all or they talk about other teachings. Fact is that the woman has every right to offer that in service.
RedDash1000 1 year ago
@RedDash1000 - I'm not saying prayer is unethical I said it is unethical IN THE CONTEXT of the therapeutic relationship. You are completely ignorant of this fact .It's like talking to a brick wall. You seem to think I'm attacking her faith, and I'm not. Those Christians can seek that you. My point is, if you are NOT seeking that out, it shouldn't even enter the equation, because it's UNETHICAL. She has NO right to offer it in her sessions without 100% permission from her clients, PERIOD.
bunnygotfree 1 year ago
@bunnygotfree I'll end my comments on the subject here because I don't want you to feel I'm trying to be to pushy. I get that you don't wish to accept Christian faith. I hope you will at least consider the points I've made regarding this womans right to teach in her practice, regardless of if you personally think faith based teaching is crazy or not. Take care.
RedDash1000 1 year ago
@RedDash1000 - You're not being pushy, you're simply ignorant of the concept of therapy. Therapy is not teaching. That alone tells me you know nothing of the subject, yet you're perfectly willing to argue something you know nothing about. I can understand not having an in-depth knowledge, but you're arguing points that I refuted based on ACTUAL knowledge of therapy. I don't think she's crazy. I think she's irresponsible and taking the easiest way out instead of become a legit therapist.
bunnygotfree 1 year ago
@RedDash1000 - Additionally, there are many reputable scientific studies published that debunk the 'power of prayer' to have any effect on the outcome of clients/patients/etc. Prayer does NOT work, from a scientific standard. You can feel otherwise, but your opinion is not based on evidence. Given this AND the fact that her actions would be unethical, it's all the more reason for her to not bring her beliefs into the therapy sessions int he first place.
bunnygotfree 1 year ago
@bunnygotfree Actually there is plenty of evidence that countless people of faith would say has happened in their lives (including mine) however if someone wishes to dismiss this as not enough evidence then they will do so regardless of anything else. Those who try to debunk the power of prayer are those who simply deny God and have not personally experienced the power of prayer in their own lives so they choose to rule it out. Keep in mind also that not all scientists dismiss faith.
RedDash1000 1 year ago
@RedDash1000 - I never said all scientists reject faith, because I know that's obviously false. I said that study after study shows that prayer does NOT work. Like I said, if you feel otherwise, you base that on your opinion, NOT evidence. You seem to have no problem, however, proclaiming your opinion as fact. The shit about me 'denying God' and 'not personally experiencing' the so-called 'power of prayer'? That's just asinine and rude, and you know it.
bunnygotfree 1 year ago
@bunnygotfree Not all Fathers believe in God, and not all 'Scientists' are Scientists. The Primates are known opportunists, and they'll "feed" on whatever comes easier inside their immediate habitat. That's why we will always have nonscientists feeding on the "bread" of a completed scientist.
TroyIII 1 year ago
@TroyIII - Humans are extremely opportunistic, agreed. One does not assume scientists' motives are pure. Agreed. But with science, by and large, the process of peer review and the scientific method weed out those of that ilk in the true scientific community. Religion has no such process, in fact, it actively opposes and discourages evidence, facts, and inquiry and peer review. "God said it, I believe it, that settles it"?
bunnygotfree 1 year ago
@bunnygotfree in school systems there are >70% of teachers who deny factual knowledge. They pray, they go to church and believe i ghosts.They are filthy religious hypocrites going after PhD and licenses for work so they can treat their patients with prays and hopes for miracles. -What scientists! :D
TroyIII 1 year ago
It's totally fucking out of line. I'm a psych student. I read lit and I'm starting psych 103 ing soch 102 next semester (taking half a semester off to get some moneys) not respectable doctor of psychology would do this IMO.
HellsCowBoy666 1 year ago
@HellsCowBoy666 - Damn straight. I'm still perplexed as to why my professor didn't point it out to her, but he's an extremely intelligent man - he used to have his own practice - and I bet he knew it was a lost cause. I just wonder why she didn't decide to become some sort or religious counselor.
bunnygotfree 1 year ago
It's tough to say... yes that's probably irresponsible, but depending on what your planning to do with your psychotherapy degree. I visited a church recently where the speaker said that the reason behind missionary work was 'supposed to be' more than just a holier than thou, kill your own guilt kind of venture and -when attempting to help someone in need, he said you have to examine more than just the obvious cause of there suffering.
harveyblackheart 1 year ago
You are quite welcome, Bunny. Yes, my grandmother was indeed very upset... but in today's world, I do believe "malpractice suit" comes to mind ...
tdmhcbbds32chp 1 year ago
If my psychologist told me she'd pray for me, I'd quit therapy immediately. Fortunately, she' s rather interested in my arguments against religion...
The "vampire" aspect aside (because I cannot relate to that) - your look is drop-dead gorgeous, and five stars wouldn't be enough...
5'd anyway, great video!
mbnp1701 1 year ago
Awesome! Yeah, me too. Your psychologist sounds like an interesting lady! ;D
I think I remember reading somewhere (and of course, typical me fashion, I forget where) that a very high percentage of psychologists/psychiatrists are indeed atheists/agnostics. I'll see if I can find that statistic somewhere, unless I was crazy and made it up. Haha
Aww, you're so sweet, thank you so much! <3 The vampy thing was a total accident but it's great to see people don't mind ;)
bunnygotfree 1 year ago
I think a person's religious belief should not be at all involved in their job, what ever that may be. I would say it could be possible for something such as that to be seen as malpractice or unethical.
My grandmother has 5 children and back when she was a newlywed, birth control was not nearly as common. Her gynecologist would NOT tie her tubes because he was Catholic and didn't believe in it. If something like this happened today, the patient would have every right to sue.
tdmhcbbds32chp 2 years ago
Holy SHIT. If my doctor refused me an abortion or Plan B or even contraception or anything like that because of their religious views... 'Infuriated' doesn't even begin to cover it.
Agreed! Why should therapy any different? Sigh. It isn't. I agree, it is malpractice and highly unethical.
TY for sharing your thoughts! A nice contribution to the discussion :)
bunnygotfree 1 year ago
My gf's father is a salvation army minister and counsellor. The first time I met him he said this "I believe that psychological help and pastoral care (religious) are complimentary". I took offence to that, but didn't voice it because as I said it was my first time meeting him. the reason I took offence was because his statement implies that a secular psychologist couldn't do as good a job as a religious one. Pissed me right off!
SpecKDB 2 years ago
Now I understand that religious/spiritual interventions can make a difference in therapy, and it is a part of some humanistic approaches to therapy, but I have a serious problem with it. Much of therapy in many cases is about helping the client grab firmer hold on reality, and I don't just mean people with schizophrenia, delusions, DID, etc., but also even more common things like depression and anxiety. In one sense or another these people are viewing the world in a distorted way...
SpecKDB 2 years ago
and in my opinion referring to a religious view does NOT help the situation. Religion is often described as an accepted mass delusion and the clinical definition for a delusion isn't that far removed from it. The fact of the matter is that there is no evidence for the supernatural and therefore references to the supernatural, be they prayer or any other, really don't belong in evidence based treatment.
Great vid btw :)
SpecKDB 2 years ago
That is so well said I can't think of a single thing to add! Very nicely done :)!
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
Thank you kindly :)
SpecKDB 2 years ago
InModiasWeTrust, dude if you don't want your bitch to be schooled, and insulted then tell her to stop making these videos. It is rather pathetic that you have to come flying into her aid, you should try reading some of your own comments, you are just full of yourself.
007Neutrin0 2 years ago
@007 - You are a small minded, pathetic troll who's only aim is to upset those of us who actually wish to exercise our voices and elicit an emotional response. I think I've given you enough of those already, and I'm fresh out. Carry on if you like, but you merely prove your lack of dynamic thought and your hateful nature. You will receive no further correspondence or communication of any sort from me.You may consider yourself blocked.
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
Exactly! I have a cousin who is a psychologist. She's a fundy of sorts, and recommends Biblical based interventions. Granted, most of her clients come from her Church, but I still think it's irresponsible.
Though, I read a book called, "Psychiatrists and Witch Doctors," which outlined reasons why this sort of faith based intervention might be effective if the client believes it will be.
Still, WTF.
KinesianMarch 2 years ago
"Biblical based interventions?" Oh dear. For those clients, who are aware of the nature of the religiously-oriented therapy, that's one thing... but for her other clients who are unaware of her beliefs, yeesh! D:
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
@BunnyGotFree - Hey Sweetie! There is a lot more commenting I have to do, but I'm still at work. I just popped in and saw a little of your response to Raph, thought I'd weigh in. More coming later, be assured! *Does not patronize teh Bunny. Loves teh Bunneh whole-heartedly!! Reserves right to call teh Bunneh by her first name too!!* LOL
-Me
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
I did my best to outline for him that I appreciated his 'insight' as to her mindset. But based on the therapeutic process in a traditional setting, he is wrong about prayer. And that I wasn't biased in relating the story. That's what she effing SAID. lol
That whole debate with him was interesting at first, but his style of 'debating' consists of circle-jerking his own idearz. And then accusing you of doing the same when you call him out on his BS. Yeah, fail.
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
@BGF - LMAO!! Exactly... "You... You're doing what I do, even though you're really not! You can't do that! I win!" ORLY? FAIL indeed...
-Me
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
NP babeh! Have a good day at verk. I miss joo so much! <3 Love you babeh!!
xoxo
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
Using faith healing in lieu of actual treatment should be criminal. On that note, should I ever meet the woman you are talking about in a doctors office, of any sort, I will point out the hypocrisy.
Mr500sheetsofpaper 2 years ago
These sort of responses make me very happy, because I am thrilled to know that people are strong/brave/smart enough to call people out on this kind of BS/malpractice :)
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
"thrilled"? I suppose you would, with your mediocre life.
007Neutrin0 2 years ago
I fail your looking left, that means you have pent up sexual frustration.
007Neutrin0 2 years ago
Do you have a point to make?
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
Did you have a point to make in your half assesed unthoughtful video. At least I was drunk when I made those comments, I was not expecting your psycho boyfriend to start flirting with me over at my page.
007Neutrin0 2 years ago
@007 - It's nothing but generalized pop- or pseudo-psychology with you is it? You really don't have anything to say. You're nothing but a troll, and thus far you're the only person thoughtless enough to turn the conversation away from the issue at hand. Your suggestion indicates that it is YOU who has the pent up sexual frustration. Your motives are clear, by the way. You are not nearly as slick and suave as you seem to think. You claim introversion? Why not stick with that and fuck off.
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Well OK, according to psychology, when someone is lying they tend to not look into your eyes, and they look right of you... So are you lying?
007Neutrin0 2 years ago
@007 - The medium you are enjoying is what many of us refer to as a "video". Often, though it may come as a shock, the producer of a given video will look off to the side over the course of it, either to consult notes or simply to break the monotony that would be created by staring directly into the camera the whole time. Furthermore, according to WHAT psychology? Aww! Did someone see a half hour documentary on psychological profiling? Good for you, managing to fail even at pop psych.
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago 2
".......Most liars will look anywhere but into your eyes while lying. Look for glances away, over your shoulder or down........if a person looks to the left (as you look at them, so to their right) it means theyre imagining something for our purposes, lying....If they look to the right, it means theyre remembering something telling the truth." - The Secret Language of the Eyes
Detecting Lies and Attraction through Eye Contact
psychology(.)suite101(.)com.
007Neutrin0 2 years ago
"a little bit off her rocker"? that bitch is insane. Psychology is just bullshit it is a pseudoscience, invented by Nazi Germans to justify the killing of the insane. Psychology is bullshit! end of story. Freud Penis envy wanting to fuck your own mother? bullshit.
007Neutrin0 2 years ago
@007 - Please take a moment to explain how this comment fits in with your assertion on your profile that psychology is among your favorite subjects. Care to expound upon your views on physics or history too? Are they also bullshit subjects? And tell us all about this "passion" you have for women... Seems to me your passion is primarily split between being disingenuous and engaging in ad hominem attacks.
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
my mind is not a stagnant entity, what the fuck is your point other then desperately trying to impress your cartoonish girlfriend? I use the term "girl" here quite loosely.
007Neutrin0 2 years ago
How does dyslexia account for your not knowing the difference between than and then?
Fucking moron.
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
Are you member of the "Church" of Scientology??? :P
SpecKDB 2 years ago
I have been pretty stressed lately... Perhaps I should get one of their renowned stress tests :D
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
Praying only has a placebo effect. I am an atheist, and if my psychologist wanted to pray for me, maybe I should be helping her, I mean she is deluded, there is no god, and I worship Satan!
007Neutrin0 2 years ago
@007 - Praying MAY have a placebo effect if the client believes in prayer and in the sincerity of the prayers being prayed over them. It has absolutely no place in a therapeutic setting. The rest of your comment, beyond "I am an atheist", is too absurd to address.
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
Well reality disagrees with you, placebos has been using in therapeutic settings.
007Neutrin0 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
wtf, your face is plastered with makeup you've scared my nephew, he think he has seen a ghost!
007Neutrin0 2 years ago
I'm wearing lipstick and eyeshadow. No foundation, so my face can't be plastered with anything. Kthnx.
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
So all that white stuff is, Matthews cum then? lying bitch.
007Neutrin0 2 years ago
I wish :D
I'm pale. How can I lie about that?
Get the fuck over it. And get a life.
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
@007 - I'll handle a final response to you on your channel page. Please do fuck off!
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
I don't care if any of my Doctors pray for me, but if she/he tries to cure me with the name of Jesus and no medicine, then I would require a live chicken to sacrifice and a VooDoo dance... just to complete the ritual.
Then I would look for another Doctor.
PT109Boat 2 years ago 2
My feelings exactly :)
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
... and additionally I would suggest that such a psychiatrist gets some psychiatric sessions herself.
FHB71 2 years ago
When a doctor suggests using homeopathy I would walk out of his office and look for a new doctor whom I can trust. The same would happen when a psychiatrist would offer to pray for me.
FHB71 2 years ago
You get SIX stars for clearly being obsessed with me enough to wear mah face...on your face.
RAAAAAA
ActsOfElegance 2 years ago
LMAO. It's like I was subconsciously channeling your sexiness... In an awkward, bumbling sort of way :D <3
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
Win. That lipstick better not leave thine face.
Or I'll high-five it back on.
ActsOfElegance 2 years ago
LOL! The friendly betchslap of sexy? <3
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
Does she not look amazing like that? I cannot get her to admit to how hot she is, which may be a good thing. It still amazes me that someone with such a strong intellect and such deep, incredible natural beauty can be so humble. I am still in awe.
-Modias
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
I had a psychiatrist use the method of just letting me talk out my problems and at the end would pray for me. Me being an atheist the end really made me uncomfortable and made me question her effectiveness. It made me feel like she was a fool.
jeremiahdrigg 2 years ago
Did you ever confront her about that? Or did she ever explain why she felt it necessary to pray for/with you? Did she do that with every client?
Sorry for 20 questions, that's just baffling to me. LOL! I don't blame you for feeling uncomfortable at all, even if she meant well. It doesn't sound like she was a very effective therapist if you felt like that about her!
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
no worries. I never confronted her because I felt that although I was not a christian I understand she felt she was doing her utmost to help and I did not want to hurt her feelings. I must say I quit going after a few times. I kniow the lady on a personal level and she is really nice. I just felt really weird after spending an hour with her, she would give me an "exercise" then pray for me. After a while it felt somewhat insulting.
jeremiahdrigg 2 years ago
Totally understandable. I'm glad you stopped going! It was probably unethical of her to give you professional help if she knew you on a personal basis (depending on the relationship you guys had) in the first place. She does sound like a nice lady, just a bad therapist. I don't think you had any reason NOT to feel insulted. By doing that she was basically saying you need to be 'saved' and that she couldn't do it for you, God had to. Fail. That was her effing job. haha
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
That would make me feel very strange too. I think it's unprofessional in the extreme. DId it feel like she was trying to convert you to her religion?
-Modias
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
No not so much convert me but almost snake oil-ish. lol.
jeremiahdrigg 2 years ago
To be honest, I'd be rather reluctant to have a religious psychiatrist.
I'm not going to put my mental health into the hands of a person who will let delusions pass for reality, so long as they're ascribed to God.
I'd be interested to know where a religious psychiatrist would draw that line.
bobble12221 2 years ago
I totally agree.
If he/she draws the line at the door to his/her practice or office, I'm fine with it. If it crosses over in to therapy as anything more than a brief discussion of beliefs (psychologists do inquire as to your worldview to get a better sense of who you are sometimes) then check please. :)
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
I once heard a pastor say that he had lost his car keys, and he prayed to God to help him find them. Sure enough, no more than 5 minutes later...he found them. Proof, right? *facepalm*
That's what happened, see? God was too busy worrying about everyone's car keys to pay attention to the starving and sick children of Africa.
DarkMatter2525 2 years ago
BAHAHAHAHA!!! Yeah, that whole AIDS thing? Tosh! These fat American preachers need to drive MyselfDammit! LMAO
-Modias
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
LOL. Were the keys to his car a nice BMW or Mercedes? Even better, a Hummer? That would just be the icing on the cake in that story.
God... being religious is just so fucking easy. What ISN'T proof of God? What the fuck... seriously.
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
Derp... should have read "were the keys to his car for a..." Fail at typing much? haha :)
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
If I had a psychologist or psychiatrist offer to "pray for me" instead of treating me, I would get up and march out of their office, yanking their degree off the wall as I went, and file a complaint with the APA. Anybody who would dare say something like that out loud is too batshit themselves to be thinking about being a shrink for someone else with issues that are just as serious. Feh!
dynamiteruby 2 years ago
Wooooo! Rubs FTFW!
My concern is that a lot of religiously-inclined people, and in fact a lot of people who don't know a lot about psychology in general, wouldn't be that smart/brazen and they'd let her get away with it. She'd be charging people for pseudoscience and worse yet making it appear legitimate (on the surface at least).
Revolting. :C
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
In the class, I probably would have asked her what the hell she was doing in a psychology class if she thought that praying the [insert malady here] away, then what the blue blazes is she doing in a PSYCHOLOGY class?
And yeah, see, that's the thing - I've come up against people like that. I had a friend who was literally getting half-assed non-licensed 'help' from a friend. I was like, 'okay, no, no, no, no and NO. This is extremely unethical! Stop that, right now!' Thankfully, she did.
dynamiteruby 2 years ago
Oh I was thinking it, LMAO. I just didn't want to be 'that' bitch and call her out on it in front of an entire class of people (especially since it would have been perceived as an attack on religion, which is 'sacred,' blah blah blah. *insert eyeroll here*)
I'm glad your friend stopped - it really, really is. Therapy has strict guidelines and requirements and anyone claiming to do therapy of any kind without proper accreditation and licensing is a dick.
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
It's like I read somewhere - people like being thought of as good and nice and all, but when it comes to something like that, you might be saving lives in the long run. Literally.
Exactly! And that's why I told her it was so important to stop. This poor woman had severe agoraphobia and anxiety to the point of hallucinations, but this person was totally overstepping bounds, giving her 'homework' to do and stuff - she was also badgering about not DOING the 'homework' and being manipulative.
dynamiteruby 2 years ago
I think you're right Ruby, and I'd be inclined to do the same. The problem is that there is a certain intimidation for some people on the client end of the therapist/client relationship. The danger, some of which Kaitlyn outlines in her response to you, is that she would be allowed to get away with it. Not just by the religious minded necessarily, but by anyone she unknowingly intimidated. That's where the damage could come in, if she was praying instead of providing therapy...
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
Well, exactly, that's the problem. It reminds me all too much of the Sablechicken/Jordan situation lately. Fundies are extremely credulous when it comes to info given to them by another fundie, regardless of how stupid or counterintuitive or just plain retarded it might seem. But put someone like that in control of other people's brains? GAH! RUN AWAYYYYYYY!
dynamiteruby 2 years ago 2
...for someone truly in need.
-Modias
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
...outside of a specifically Christian environment. Pray if you want, but don't use it as a substitute for actual therapy. Therapy works, and it's been proven scientifically. Prayer does NOT work, and that has also been proven! Maybe you should mention "Christian Victim's Advocate" to her if she is serious about wanting a career in any aspect of the field outside of a Christian-only environment.
-Me
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
"A little bit off her rocker" is an understatement, it would seem... I think this woman would do well in the capacity of a chaplain or "spiritual advisor" for a specifically Christian counselling service, but she has no business becoming a psychologist. If she really believes this stuff, there's no way she'll sqeak out a Ph.D. anyway, so there's probably no reason to worry. As to the therapeutic environment... There may be some merit in that, but again, I don't think it has any place...
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
I was a Social Work major and a Psych/Soc major at different points in my life (administrative fuck ups are fun) Using prayer with difficult clients is only acceptable if the client has his/her faith. BUT since borderline clients are often delusional in regards to spiritual beliefs, its difficult to walk that line. In considering that she was in a cult, she could be disastrous in some clients lives.
Bill Hicks is one of my faves of all time comedic gold.
kelliko70 2 years ago 2
@ kelliko70 exactly what i was thinking but im not experienced in psych or social work as you are but i understand for someone who believes praying and putting the healing in thier faith can be similar to a placebo effect? they may feel better and you dont have to recommend other treatment or medications. some people's problems may stem from not having a supportive environment or unable to identify one?
Raphael2885 2 years ago
That's fine in a religiously-oriented setting, but that 'placebo' effect is not actual therapy. It will not help a client like actual therapy will.
Neither is just sitting with a therapist and talking. Both are manifestations of an incompetent therapist and therapy.
After all, if you pray to some omnipotent being who you think controls the actions of others, what's the point in trying to give them therapy in the first place? lol. Why not just set up a prayer hot line or something?
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
because a hotline isnt the same face to face interaction as sitting with someone discussing and praying. its not just the act of prayer you have to look at. to someone who beleives in that stuff to see someone is taking the care and time to do something they respect greatly might have a healing effect, not just the idea they are praying.
Raphael2885 2 years ago
It might have a healing effect of sorts, but it still has no place in a traditional therapeutic setting. If you want people to pray to you and the face-to-face interaction is important to you, seek out a spiritual "leader", pastor, minster, priest, whatever. The therapist's job is to dig out the problem and solve it. Praying merely discards the problem and, even if God DID exist, passes the buck.
-Modias
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago 2
AND that healing effect would be perceptual to the believer rather than a true "real" measurable effect. Prayer doesn't work. It really is that simple. Neither do sugar pills, unless the person receiving them thinks they're getting medicine, hence the placebo effect. The prayer placebo should, if at all, (again) come from the church not the therapist.
-Modias
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
Again, that's not therapy. Prayer is an act. It's an act of worship, and as such belongs in a religious setting. If that's what that person needs, he/she can get it from a spiritual adviser/pastor/some other church leader. Some research into the therapeutic process might benefit your understanding of why prayer has no place in it as a 'treatment.'
If you don't believe me, you're more than welcome to call up some practicing psychologists and ask them if they would ONLY pray for their clients.
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
why would i need to ask someone else?didnt you state in the video this entire discussion took place in a classroom? so you were in the presence of someone more knowledgeable than you, the woman who proposed the prayer, or anyone posting comments here. there isnt really much discussion to your question since you cant remember and unbiasedly what was said nor did you give the response of i assume the person incharge of class. maybe you should have asked the teacher not me
Raphael2885 2 years ago
As I recall, I didn't ask you anything? I said you can call psychologists and ask them if they'd pray for their clients. Which I still invite you to do.
She didn't propose "the" prayer. She proposed PRAYER. Period. As THE way to "provide" therapy to her clients. Which is patent bullshit.
And to suggest otherwise means you don't know anything about psychology. I already outlined for you where prayer fits into any 'therapeutic' process.
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
and going off your paraphrasing which is all we have the christian lady did sound as if prayer wasnt the only option. she said she would do everything she could as you put it. that sounds to me like the person is difficult and unresponsive to everything but prayer, or the peace of mind someone is praying for them. and she is doing this instead of quicken her judgement as untreatable and dismissing them
Raphael2885 2 years ago
In the context of what I said, she said she do everything for them prayer-wise, NOT as a psychologist.
The difficult clients are the LEAST likely to benefit from nothing but prayer. That would do nothing but MORE harm than good. I hope you don't think praying for a schizophrenic client will cure them.
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
you asked everyone in general 0:23 and again at the end
but im guessing now that its obvious you werent sincere in gathering responses nor did you accurately quote the woman you are just trolling for "like " responses to yours. not earnestly interested in thoughts or again YOU would have went to the teacher not suggest to me,someone who really doesnt give much shit about this that i should look into it.
Raphael2885 2 years ago
I apologize - I thought you meant in my last comment. Yes, I was interested in getting responses, otherwise why would I have created this video?
I *said* that I was paraphrasing, but that doesn't mean I didn't get her central point from her, which is that prayer was her only method for inducing change in a patient.
I did talk to my professor about her beliefs, and he assured me they were just as unfounded as I thought they were. Again, if you think I'm wrong, talk to practicing psychologists.
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
its ok, youre cute =0
but im not saying you are wrong on not trying to utilize prayer into treatment or that i think that you are i just feel it might be situational. if theres a person that cant be helped and you know it. there isnt much you can do besides pray if you believe in that sort of thing. maybe the lady meant it was more for her to help her cope with knowing she did all she could and didnt prevail. i just came by anyway because you look like a vampire.
Raphael2885 2 years ago
Thank you for not only sharing how little you know but also taking the time to patronize Kaitlyn. Just what does her appearance have to do with her argumentation? She is absolutely correct about not utilizing prayer in a therapeutic setting. If one desires prayer, one should seek Christian- or religion-specific counseling, and the context Kaitlyn speaks in here is that of the traditional setting. Is that clear enough for you!?
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
whats clear is you are clearly one of those teat suckiling types that others on YT complain about. with your late, blatently pointless, response where you weakly comprehended the interaction between "kaitlyn" and i. using her real name also suggests your response is more of an attempt of bristling up to show her internet manliness ot perhaps just butt hurt i said she looked nice.
Raphael2885 2 years ago
The fact that he's my boyfriend gives him every reason to use my first name. FYI. Your "you're cute" comment WAS patronizing in response to my apology. I didn't address it because I thought responding to your assertion that prayer could 'work' on difficult clients has a place in traditional therapy.
I love the irony of you accusing him of 'weakly comprehending' our discussion when you failed to make any reasonable, founded counterpoint to his argument. Or mine.
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
"I didn't address it because I thought responding to your assertion that prayer could 'work' on difficult clients has a place in traditional therapy"
should read
I didn't address it because I thought responding to your assertion that prayer could 'work' on difficult clients has a place in traditional therapy was far more important."
Sorry about that, typing fail.
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
why would i even bother making a counter point to his argument when both you and him really argued in circles. this entire "argument" has really been your opinion anyway as i had stated from before you biasedly portrayed the scenario from the start, and from your other video you do sound very phobic of fundies. then we didnt even hear what the authority in the room (your teacher) had to say on the matter verbatim. its not my job to do the research for your point, its yours and then present it.
Raphael2885 2 years ago
I did just that, in discussion form, and you can't argue against my point orMatt's worth crap. My discussion WOULD be based on my opinion wouldn't it? WTF is your point?
You really don't have one and you're grasping at straws. Just because you can't debunk someone doesn't mean they 'argue in circles.'
The irony is, I did just that - researched my point and presented it. If you're going to argue against it it IS your job to do the same for your side. If you don't want to sound like an asshat.
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
And I love how you deflected it back onto me when I called you out about him using my name and you being patronizing. Way to go.
I didn't mention what my teacher said because I wanted to see what everyone else said, and if it came up in the context of the convo, I would mention it. LIKE I DID. My memory of what she said isn't biased, just SUMMARIZED.
It's strangely enough like debating a fundamentalist Christian. Hmm.
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
@Raphael2885 - You have nothing left to say, and it would be in your best interest to stop trying until you have a point. You are merely putting your own ignorance on display. However entertaining it may be, I am not interested in repeating myself. If you have an argument, present it. If you genuinely see my argument as circular, I can only assume that you are unclear as to what circular reasoning is. Please make your point or try a new tactic.
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
Ah yes, so here we are. The end of the argument. This is my favorite part... You know, where the losing party ceases any attempt at respectful exchange and resorts to ad hominem attacks exclusively. Thank you for your concession, though I was already aware of having won the debate. That's #1. #2 - I would consider purchasing a dictionary or composing your comments in an application with SpellCheck available. #3- You never responded to me directly which suggests that I was in the...
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
...position of strength from the beginning. Any appearance of weakness was my attempt to dumb-down my argument to your level in the hopes that you would understand it and respond in kind. Clearly I didn't simplify it quite enough for you. You have my apologies. Next, the reason I refer to Kaitlyn as "Kaitlyn" is because that is the name she uses to introduce herself in the video. Rather than "bristlilng up" as you suggest, I was trying to show her a modicum of respect...
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
...unlike yourself. Telling me that you were saying she looked nice is disingenuous at best. You were not passing a compliment, but were patronizing her as has been made clear. Well, clear to everyone else at least. If you think she looks nice, by all means tell her! The fact that she's my girlfriend does not mean I have any issue with her being complimented or even hit on. I take such comments as compliments myself. But don't try to lie your way out of being a jerk...
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
... Again, thank you for showing your true colors. Best of luck in all your future endeavours.
-Modias
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
and since she seemed to genuinely ask what were peoples thoughts on the on the woman's comments i thought it would be more beneficial for her if someone tried to respond from the christian lady's point of view,giving her the benefit of doubt she isnt that crazy instead of another monotonous, droning, praise troll response such as yours or just hitting a thumbs up on everyone's comments. you are doing more littering than me, again just posting the same biased "shit" as everyone else.
Raphael2885 2 years ago
Thank you for taking up her side and providing arguments from her perspective. It was interesting to consider them and to ultimately shed light on the context of prayer as NOT belonging in the traditional therapy process, for the arguments we discussed above. I appreciate the opportunity to rationalize WHY prayer doesn't belong in therapy and share my opinions and get insight as to her mindset.
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
In the beginning you did show an interest in taking up the Christian lady's side, but that quickly devolved into simple nastiness as your comments went on. You couldn't take the heat when you were disagreed with, and I think that should make you think twice before ever again accusing someone else of weakness. Further, my acknowledging that I agree with an argument does not make me a praise troll. It just means I agree. But again, it just goes to show who and what you really are. Pathetic.
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
Finally, where exactly does the truth lie for you, Raphael? You tell us that you are taking up the lady's side, yet you quickly start attacking me personally rather than debunking my argument. You also tell us that you really don't care about this stuff, yet here you are... If you care, please argue in kind. If you don't, you are continuing to litter here, as I said before. And if my arguments have no value, fine. But tell me why instead of getting personal. Cheers.
-Modias
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
and maybe im just in disbelief that this lady would be taking psychology courses with intent to practice. then once she graduated only practiced using prayer. that would just be an enormous waste of time and money. if thats how she is though she would have saved so much by forging a degree and a license
Raphael2885 2 years ago
I totally agree! Haha. Given the depth of this lady's beliefs tho, I wouldn't be surprised if she did just that. She is that far gone.
"there isnt much you can do besides pray if you believe in that sort of thing. "
If you have a client you honestly feel you can't help, you refer them to someone who can. You do everything you can to GET them that help that you can't provide. Prayer still doesn't enter the equation.
LOL. *accepts vampyness* ;D
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
Why would you so constantly and consistently respond if you "really don't give much of a shit" to put your words in context with the grammar corrected? Why litter up someone's comment forum with your nonsense if you don't care?
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
I think that if a client wants to discuss his/her faith, that's fine. If he/she wants prayer though, the church is the place to turn to, not the therapist. I don't think prayer has any place whatsoever in the traditional psychotherapist's office, as it is not therapeutic. Minor placebo type benefits might result from prayer, but the therapist is not an appropriate source. If I were the Psychologist in the situation, I would not reject it outright, but aim her toward a spiritual "leader"...
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
like the vampire look (Ventrue would be my guess??) prayer can never get in the way of treatment if the patient doesnt choose that. (and in most cases choosing prayer is a bad idea)
peqdf 2 years ago
Definitely Ventrue. She's too humble to be a Tremere. LOL! I'm a fucking nerd.
-Modias
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
could be deava though..
peqdf 2 years ago
LOL. I'm pasty as fuck, I hate garlic, I'm practically nocturnal, and I burn like a mofo in the sunlight.
At this rate I should just file down my fangs and start wearing a cloak. :D
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
cloaks were so 1800's dont the ones in twilight wear prada?
Raphael2885 2 years ago
Totally, not trying to be a creeper in an "A and B" conversation (er....C too, I guess), but you are SO fired for hating garlic.
ActsOfElegance 2 years ago
I KNOW! Apparently I'm a freak for hating it! I hate coffee too. I can tolerate garlic small amounts tho... Go figure, Matt LOVES garlic... BLEGH. haha
I'm thinking I could pull one off! I'm 90% vamp-looking anyway! Haha. I'm an art student too, so I could just play it off as part of my 'mystique.' SNORT. hahaha
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
No, not "APPARENTLY". Garlic is quite possibly ze best thing ever. Like, EVER. That is magnitude you can't even begin to wrap thine head around. But I shall forgive you because you denounce coffee. You are again my hero. You may live.
ActsOfElegance 2 years ago
@Acts - I agree. It's very hard to cook for her without any garlic at all. She's a lactard to boot! LOL!
-Modias
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
1. Digging the Vamp look >=)
2. You had some very good points in this video a nice addition to the prayer/science debate.
3. Subbed! ^_^ x
AstraVex 2 years ago
Hahaha! It's the fangs, isn't it? I considered getting them fixed, but if they get me more subs... LOL
TY kindly! And thanks so much for subbing :D <3
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
Anything to help a pretty lady ^.^ x
Feel free to sub back =D
AstraVex 2 years ago
If I was on the verge of snapping and going on a homicidal rampage, and my psychiatrist told me she'd pray for me...that would do it. That would be the straw that broke the metaphorical's back...and I'd start with her, too.
So to all the prospective psychologists and psychiatrists out there...don't tell your patients you'll pray for them. It could be the last thing you'll ever do.
xVancha 2 years ago
Hahaha!!
"A local Evangelical psychiatrist was killed today when her atheist client attacked her with a baseball bat..."
As if atheists don't have enough of a PR problem!! LOL
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
Once there was a show on BBC Radio 1 about how police officers would pray that crimes would be solved. The best comment came from a Scotsman who rang in to say 'The people of Britain are praying that the Police would do their job'
kff 2 years ago 2
If I went to a psychologist that suggested prayer over actually providing the services that I was looking for, I would walk out and not pay her a dime. Honestly, if someone is in this line of work and they are suggesting prayer works over what they have learned to get the degree in psychology, they should consider another profession. Sounds like she would be better suited for working in a church than becoming a psychologist.
junosden 2 years ago
I hope to her God that she does end up in some sort of church therapy!!
I totally agree. It's like she didn't internalize a single thing she learned about all the disorders she's learned about, in a single psychology class EVER. I find that dangerous and completely irresponsible and unprofessional... I'm so sick of religion getting a free pass when it comes to this shit.
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
@junosden... I have to agree with you 100%.
tattooskin72 2 years ago
@junosden - Exactly! This woman has no business in traditional psychotherapy!
-Modias
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
If this woman honestly believes that closing her eyes and asking her magic invisible friend to grant her wish and make her client better than she is well past the fence of malpractice. And i would not want to deal with her should i look for therapy
The point being is that my person views conflict with hers so i can't judge. This is not true for everyone and some people will want this type of (what i consider) dangerous bullshit.
Samakain 2 years ago
I'm right there with you... Even if you ARE religious, she is NOT providing you with any kind of actual therapy by just listening and praying on your behalf. I too would also consider it malpractice. A therapeutic environment is not the same as providing therapy. I would say the same thing about a psychologist who just listens to you and doesn't provide therapy as well (though that's more to do with competency than personal beliefs)
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
I agree... I mean, what happens if this woman is somebody's last resort? They've run the gamut of psychology and have found no one or, worse yet, they've been betrayed by a former therapist. They decide to give it one last go, and find this woman? Who won't even do real therapy? She could wind up doing someone who NEEDS help serious damage. I think she should consider a different career.
-Modias
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
"Neither in my private life nor in my writings, have I ever made a secret of being an out-and-out unbeliever."
Sigmund Freud
But not with standing that quote. I have heard that there are a lot of christian Psychiatrists who apparently sift what they have learned in school through a christian sieve of sorts.
For me, we live in a real word of sometimes complex mixtures of opposing interests. She will have her niche and you will have yours is my guess.
KasparHauser4 2 years ago
Very nicely put! This is pretty much exactly how I feel, with the caveat that though I do respect the rights of psychologists/psychiatrists to ascribe to whatever beliefs they want, I think that religious beliefs to a large extent should be kept out of their professional setting. Unless the clients are aware that they are engaging in therapy - ACTUAL therapy, not what she described - with someone who will 'pray' on their behalf. I don't think that prayer is in any way ...
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
A proper form of therapeutic intervention, ESPECIALLY not with the difficult clients about which we were talking in that scenario. I think it's like a doctor saying "I have medical expertise and I could give you this med that would cure you, but let's pray instead."
As long as the therapist is providing actual therapy, instead of just praying for his/her clients, I agree religiously overtoned therapy has its own niche. My issue is with just praying for clients in lieu of providing real therapy.
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
Ooo another video :)
Hmm why do these people think that believing in prayer makes it work?
They will try and tell you that they have witnessed it working...bullshit. I am just sick to death of people telling me they will pray for my younger brother (who has muscular dystrophy), and having to explain what kind of disease it is and that the medical profession doesn't have a cure so how the hell is muttering some words to a unknown being make it all better?Grrr
Meiklelodians 2 years ago
I can't even imagine how frustrating that must be and condescending that must be for you. Sadbunnyface :C
I'm sure that those sample people are the ones who pray for Jeebus to help them when they get ill, and then praise and thank Jeebus when they get better from ACTUAL medical intervention. The ignorance of that... It leaves me speechless (which doesn't happen often, lol).
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
Yeah me too, it never used to bother me...but I have lost count of how many people have prayed...and how it doesn't fecking work.
Meiklelodians 2 years ago
Sorry to hear that... My issue with it is that prayer is done by the pious in an attempt to make themselves feel better. They can say that they've done something, and if they are deeply enough set in their faith, they might actually believe it. The point is that prayer is much more beneficial for the one doing it than for the person being prayed for. And it only benefits the person doing the praying if they actually believe they're doing something.
-Modias
InModiasWeTrust 2 years ago
I agree, sad thing is the ones doing the praying could be helping in other ways...seems there energy is being wasted, and usually I am all for people doing things that make them feel better...but there are other more helpful ways to do that.
Meiklelodians 2 years ago
Next time one of them does that, you could say something like "I appreciate your concern, but if you really care about his well being, why don't you donate to X charity? They're working to find an actual cure instead of praying for one."
See how many of them take you up on that. :)
bunnygotfree 2 years ago
@InModiasWeTrust, very true.
DarkMatter2525 2 years ago
cool beans. its always amazing that any could think that even IF there were a God running the universe, that such and entity would disrupt the system he set in place, just cos someone prayed.
if prayer worked, there'd be a heck of a lot more lottery winners.
gothatfunk 2 years ago 3