Masculinity Crisis (4/9) "Tough Guise"

[slicingwater]

Yet another reason to dislike MTV

[NagiNataMaster]

Thank goodness that the vast majority of them don't explode into murderous rages!

This guy is a little bit derpy, just sayin'

[Razer9672]

lol wiggers XD

[ThankYouAndHello]

Its funny. When he speaks about Columbine i was waiting for him to mention another genre of music.

I wonder why he thinks he is able to speak about hip hop and not something like metal or whatever its name-sake is these days.

[ThankYouAndHello]

This is incredibly dated. What were the 90s good for?

It goes no further than an argument of duality. Its a little more complicated than archetypes. Rupaul is famous for saying 'you're born naked and the rest is drag'.

It is a performance. Much like everything else. You can say you're being real but in fact there is very little in a capitalist realm that is really ever real.

[shey2k]

This is what media does to people. Over time, all of these influences become naturalized. We feel we learn it elsewhere, bit no matter where we learn it from. It's just a normal part of life, right? The problem is seeing the big picture, all the external influences on our identities, and then consider, are you the way you are because its what you chose, or because over time, media has been choosing for you?

[Godsflame1]

Okay, so i'm a black female. And I don't recall any of my black male relatives gleaning on "how to act tough" From anything outside of their situation or community or examples. Most of them were taught by their fathers or other relatives how real men should act. And it didn't come from a movie. Also order to survive in their communities some had to "BE" Tough, not "act" tough in order to survive.

[shey2k]

@Godsflame1 The fathers learned somewhere, toughness does not come from birth. It's taught somewhere, and continued by family and environment and because we do not stop to consider how or why we are influenced by theses things, we won't be able to stop the perpetual teaching that goes on.

[textthing]

@Godsflame1

I think you're simplifying the argument.

[anantashesha]

One very reason i guess guys act like that is because girls fall for that mannerism, and encourage this. Raed their mags! Girls usually dont even talk about the good guys. Can u follow me? Or are u just pretending to understand whats in this movie??

If girls would stop meeting with "bad guys"they could come to recognize the few who are virtuos. But those, even if handsome ones, are not to consider for females "partner electing program -err".

SO emancipated are the ladies not at all =)

[downunderdougs]

this suddenly got fucked up!

[robertk1968]

I would also like to add that in many of these school killings the individuals who carried them out were also using pharmacutical drugs which has also become widespread thoughout the US over the last 15years through these sudo-scientific disorders, like ADT, made up by physocoligists who are directly sponsored by the drug corporations !

[Neofcon]

@robertk1968 Interesting. You know, it's like everything is saying "if it's man made, it's dangerous. Embrace what God/Nature intended"

Heh, Religion might not be bullshit afterall, if we look at the effects of steroids which is a man made drug to further the "evolution" of human strength which causes lethal side-effects.

[crackerHero]

fuckin wiggers!! if your white and and a bad motherfucker just stay being white

[RukiKatiakicz]

@crackerHero I don't think you can act a certain color. Stereotypes and labels maybe... but not all blacks are gangsters, just as not all whites are fat.

[crackerHero]

and who the fuck said whites are steorotyped as fat nerd pussys? i never heard of that or did you just made that up to defend poser wiggers?

[RukiKatiakicz]

@crackerHero maybe both; I said fat since america in general is stereotyped as fat, plus you see on sit coms, lots of the men are fat. No, not all of them. The point was, people are composed of more than just stereotypes, and it really doesn't matter who dresses like what, because we're all made of fucking flesh and bone. Labels just seperate us from one another - all subcultures call people "posers" if they don't fit in, no matter how countercultural a group is.

[crackerHero]

now those are words of wisdom, i was testing you to see if your smart type or the dumb troller

[noobler9]

I'm not seeing masculinity in the accompanying video, I'm seeing wiggers, definitely wiggers, strong, silent, calm, the godfather guy is is a great example of a good attitude, and that scene resembles machiavelli's writings, who is italian, this video makes a good case against non-jock types having guns too, imagine hair trigger people, being the norm? lol

[CapnAkira]

Chino's not black.

[SalviaSeatBelt]

@CapnAkira you missed the idea?

[NoctisEreptor]

As a SWF I must admit that blokes are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Accused of being too wimpy around other men but then accused of being insensitive to women with their partners. Catch 22 = a mental battle. Not nice.

[RukiKatiakicz]

@NoctisEreptor Yeah... it's really horrible that being macho and aggressive is cool, and that sensitivity, which is much more healthy and beneficial to the individual, is undermined and "not as important"...

[reed1the1unique]

They were actually building bombs in their garages and their parents were too neglectful to even notice.

[reed1the1unique]

School shooting are caused more by feelings of helplessness, often by young boys who feel rejected by a social system. I was bullied myself when I was in high and middle school and I felt a sense of helplessness that I could say was similar, however, I did not believe such an action would be ethical or have a positive affect on me in the long run. Sociopaths and murderers who do not have a sense of ethics are often ignored by their parents, or lack parental figures who teach them ethics.

[RukiKatiakicz]

@reed1the1unique this is what is wrong with parents. Parents need to start playing an active role in their teens' lives... by that I don't mean banning computer and tv, or monitoring, but I mean COMMUNICATION, talking about feelings... important things like these.

[Tra1n3rfromH3ll]

we were lectured in my abnormal psych class that Eric Harris was a psychopath and Dylan was self-loathing depressed; not that they were trying to 'fit in' in a violent way.

[RookhKshatriya]

@Tra1n3rfromH3ll Well, if your abnormal psychology class said so it must be true, then.

[ValoSGonzalez]

This part of the segment is compelling. I think he made a strong, valid point here. A thug dressed in a tuxedo is still a thug. Anyone confused as to what the difference between thuggery and masculinity is should remember the one critical distinction and that is creation. Men think, create and make exchanges of their own free will. Thugs covet, steal, and hold the ideas of other men for ransom at gunpoint.

[gammathetasbear]

wtf? i disagree..

[HiAdrian]

Interesting how some people are angered by this hypothesis. Have you ever watched MTV Cribs? What films do black rappers proudly mention being in their collection? Scarface and Godfather, it's such a cliche but you can't deny it.

And those heavily invested in playing "the role" are gonna hate this little film, unsurprisingly.

[GeoWing2]

@HiAdrian

well the Godfather is considered one of the greatest films ever made in fact The Godfather is rated #2 and Godfather part II is #3 on IMDB's rating system. Its obviously not that people could like a good film...or could it?

[JeanLouie1106]

I wonder why he hasn't yet made mention of aggression and physical strength/size being instinctual ques for all males since infancy. Go into playgrounds and you'll see boys being rough, some being teased some being pushed around, regardless of exposure to media or ANY form of socially expected masculinity, I'm sure the ideas fester in the minds of all boys when they realize, hey, a bigger meaner kid can push me over and take my ball.

[alrune8]

@JeanLouie1106 That's true but do we need to always represent school yard and playground idea of masculinity as the epitome of adult masculinity? Or can't we just propose different alternatives for boys to pick the one that best suits them?

[natedoggcata]

this movie is such bullshit

[uberschnack]

blacks as role models... oh no...

gangster movies feature males in positions of power. not anything new in any culture.

[LDMEXICO]

i am SUPER TOUGH

[RayneRockstar]

This lampshades something pretty interesting, regardless off the lack of this posturing and big muscles that make us believe high-school jok(e)s are the "alpha male", they are not the ones who end up being capable of murdering those who threaten their life...

[0megamanX]

I've never seen a documentary try and forge a link between so many unrelated facts and ideas. Subpar in my opinion.

[benattis]

This video do not in any way explain school shootings being not more often happening in more ethinical enviroments which according to Katz are more infested with the problem but less often. Katz is simply wrong. School shootings are specific for the parts of the world that has LESS male traditionel behavior. Not more.

[Abashi76]

The problem is not the existence of this propagandist media that stuffs us in a box, its the lack of alternatives to it.

The only thing we can fight to change is not the mainstream, but to create an alternative.

[asmodeus585]

This video just states the obvious fact, which has been Pulcinella's secret for many years. This is just as it is. Whether it's a good thing or bad, it's a completely different kettle of fish. Violence was always in human nature, so someone may say that the young males are just picking up these trends wich suit their genes/personality.

[roygbivlz]

Some young fellows have found that in the microcosm of Western culture the only way you can "get any pussy" is to be a violent, muscular, G.I. Joe, take-no-shit type. I've seen experimented with this in my own life. Even a 5lb discrepancy counts. So it's well embedded in Western culture both in women and men. What to do? Well the first step is to raise awareness which is something that this film can do well with.

[asmodeus585]

It's due to the artists and the film industry to change it. I doubt that politicians would do anything even If they claimed they want to.

[RukiKatiakicz]

@roygbivlz and this is another problem with male culture, from my observation... that women are only good for pussy and sex. The more you get (women and sex), the more manlier you are - it becomes a conquest, a collection. It's sad that people have to go through shit like this and I hope that your life has gotten better for you.

[RookhKshatriya]

@RukiKatiakicz

Sure, but they get sex from women for acting that way - it is what women find attractive!

[Namari12]

@RookhKshatriya "It is what women find attractive" because women are also getting these societal messages that this is what a "real man" is like.

If we can change our culture which tells us that men should be hyper-aggressive and have the 'tough guy' front, then that front will no longer be seen as attractive, but dangerous and ridiculous.

[RookhKshatriya]

@Namari12

Women won't change anything, it is what they find attractive. Any male who is at all intellectual, introspective or self-aware is ridiculed and ignored by women. All this talk about how women are a great civilizing force, is pure rubbish. Women like thugs, psychos and bullies, they even inundate mass murderers with offers of marriage. Women have a problem but you can't admit it. The men's movement is shaking up this women on pedestals rubbish, big style.

[shey2k]

@RookhKshatriya Is it possible that women's attraction to a certain type of man is affected by this same masculine media?

If men are affected and tough is super cool, why wouldn't a woman to want her man to be super cool? I'm just trying to link the two scenarios rather than do what the white dominant male society would expect, which is to push back against the women as Jackson says, its a backlash against women because they choose the tough guys, but not when the males choose to take it on?

[RookhKshatriya]

@shey2k I think Katz makes some good points, and of course there is an issue of males taking on the tough guise. However, he tends to exonerate women of responsibility wherever possible. The responses here do not represent a radical MRA position, it is just honest observation that women dislike decent males and prefer violent thugs. And which comes first? Maybe the males take on the guise because it impresses women in the first place. They are forced to, to get quick sex or a regular partner.

[textthing]

@RookhKshatriya

And I think you're just falling victim to the same stereotypes.

[Smiilez03]

poor people need to watch this

[daniz123]

No, middle class and rich people needs to watch this - they are the ones who consumes that rap crap and all other crap

[QuartKnee4Real]

i'm pretty sure poor, middle class and rich people ALL need to watch it. Money doesn't matter... everyone consumes pop culture.

[Asant30]

Ok, I don't quite appreciate you calling Rap crap. Yes I know and understand that a lot of the music out there today (including rap) isn't of quality, but Hip hop like all genres of music started out with a purpose of sending messages of social change using a form of expression inherent to the culture. But it has changed over the years due to the way consumerism works. So just because you may not like it, doesn't make it crap

[shifre]

Actually. despite Asant30 has replied to you. I just want to add that if you go "underground" to the less mainstream rap, you'll find poetry mixed (very well) with music.

It's the mainstream stuff that pretty annoying.

It's like an action story is always nice but an action story where the big, strong man rescues the damsel-in-distress is not only promoting the wrong values (for both genders) but is boring and cliche.

[Smiilez03]

whoops I meant "more" people lol

[brebre1920]

more men (and women) need to watch this very informative video! it can change the world

[Danzilla666]

I thought I was the only one who saw the pattern of shooters who were males that were victimized by other bullies.

This is the only video that explicitly explains the actual real reason behind the shootings.

[IbarraJay]

i know him. Lol.