The doctor who hears voices part 3

[drixhex]

ok, this "problem" is a struggle. everyone looks at the obvious oh she has this or that, she is working through problems, as we al are in on way or another. You are no different from her. In fact if she gets through it she is stronger, emotional, physical, sexual abuse can along with isolation can cause this sh:t to happen. It could happen to you, do not talk down..visit my blog.I got through it with help of supplements and small meds....big meds destroy...ekduo.blogspot.com.s­urvive..evolve.

[improbableangel]

Does anyone see that he looks like he has moments that he may be hearing voices? pauses, eye movement, like he's listening inside his head. not convinced he is completley cured.

[nateburnett]

The ultimate treatment a person can receive is a combination of things: starting with therapy to get to the root cause of the person's troubles, making sure there is someone in their life to make them feel loved, then having them eat fresh organic fruits, and green leafy vegetable (to provide nutrients). Those three things: therapy, love, and real nutrients.

[DiNKYWiNKYx3]

@frecklydharma

You're an idiot..

[whales]

rufus is a strange cat

[folieadeux8381]

Taking someone off meds that is as bad as she is, is just not a good idea. Medication helped me immensely. I'm really sick of people freaking out over medicated people. We're not all zombies, and yes, it does help, and it has with me. I have bipolar and BPD along with severe anxiety, OCD, and PTSD. Thank you to the people who created these meds to make me feel human again!

[tostrivetoseek]

@folieadeux8381 I'm of the same opinon as you. I have BDP too, and severe anxiety..and a touch of delusional thoughts. Medication has helped improve the quality of my life so much. This 'doctor' Rufus May, is coming into my university on Monday to give a talk. I really want to give him a peice of my mind cuz I strongly believe encouraging people to come off of their meds(especially when the said person is suicidal, and hearing voices telling her to kill herself & others) is highly irresponsible

[folieadeux8381]

Was it this most recent Monday or the one coming up? I'm really interested to know if you or someone did stand up to argue the point.

[tostrivetoseek]

@folieadeux8381 It was the Monday that had just been. He actually came across really well. He was pretty nice (whereas in the documentary, he seemed to not really be serious about what he is doing). There wasnt much oppertunity to challenge him, and he avoided the topic of medication when it came up in a question. He did address it, but said something like 'medication does have its place, but it is overused'. This is a fair comment.

[tostrivetoseek]

Cont. What is interesting is that he demonstrated the 'Voice dialogue therapy' (where he talks directly to the voice), and what they did not show in the documentary is that the technique he uses is to line 2-3 chairs up and get the patient to start in seat A as themselves, and then move into Seat B (Seat C also if more than 1 voice), then talked to the 'voice' but made sure the patient then returned to seat A, to their 'collective self'. I guess to put the patient back in control.

[tostrivetoseek]

Cont 2. Sorry..just an additional note that might be of interest to people watching this. One of the first questions put to him was about Ruth, and how she is doing. I found his response very peculiar...He had an uncomfortable smirk, took a deep breath and then simply said, "yeah, um, ruth is doing well. she's still a doctor". Then quickly took another question. I just thought it very odd that he passed over it so quickly, perhaps not being truthful? My 4 fellow students agreed it was weird.

[shorteylove]

@folieadeux8381 You are so right..! I have had depression in 6 years, and medication has helped me in a way so I can see brigther on things, and have a everyday life.

[dadiddlydooda]

@folieadeux8381 Yes, it's one good option. But for me, I didn't like the side effects it gave, so I stuck to solidly dealing with my mental battles and it was pretty worth it. I'm used to it now. Plus, my muscles don't spasm like crazy like it used to from drugs anymore. Actually, it rarely happens now, and if it does its only a tiny twitch. Medication is one good option out there, but if you're up for it, just straight up dealing with it makes you a stronger person in the long run.

[folieadeux8381]

@dadiddlydooda So, are you saying you are stronger than me (or will be) because you have found a way to battle your mental illness without medication? Unbelievable. It's too easy to argue that statement so I'll just stop right there.

[dadiddlydooda]

@folieadeux8381 Now, you're just being sensitive and emotional; thinking irrational. I'm saying I've become stronger in my own way, not that I have surpassed any individual per se. There are two of many ways you can deal with schizophrenia from what I have mentioned. Both ways are fine, but dealing schizophrenia without medication and deciding to fight the battles without help can be very difficult is what I'm saying compared to just popping a pill. You should know that as well as I do.

[thestrugglewithin]

@folieadeux8381

I'm glad its helped you in your recovery and I agree, if the case is really bad, so bad that the point of cognitive therapy (in all avenues) is exhausted because they are incapable of receiving that kind of treatment, meds will help bring them back to a more "normal" state so that THAT therapy can take place.

The problem is that psychiatry is too often a shot-gun effect or a bandage--solution to a bullet wound. It gets rid of the symptoms, but the problem, the CAUSE remains.

[MsBionomics]

@folieadeux8381

Meds are not meds. It has long been speculated that the meds for schizophrenia treat only the symptoms while brain damage goes on. In a recent experiment with brain cells of schizophrenics it has been shown that almost all of the standard meds for this illness had absolutly no positive effect on the ill cells.

[annie46664]

Rufus is great & I have much confidence that he'll be able to assist, but it could take a long time. My choice would be a visit to Stephen Turoff ~ the renowned Spiritual Healer / Psychic Surgeon in Essex, UK. I do however, believe that after 2012 all dis-ease will be reversed & eventually disappear. This is merely a personal belief which I don't intend arguing about ~ since there's no means of proof, either to self or any other until after 2012.

Durban / SA

[monkeyh20]

8:20...she's such a wonderful person, but with a problem that's nobody's fault. This is a fantastic documentary and raises a great issue.

[anagg17]

ruth wilson rock! :D

[zaakattak]

BONG HITS 4 JESUS!!!!

[LeeAnne2001]

okay, she has cut marks, she is delusional, she thinks a fish tank is in sync with someone's heart beat, and is talking to her voices... not convinced this is working yet

[thestrugglewithin]

@LeeAnne2001

Well done to you and the 5 other fools that begin drawing conclusions not even HALF-WAY THROUGH THE FILM.

Are you a (typical) doctor by any chance?

You're arrogance and ignorance suggests.

[DebEspace]

your first diagnosis was right rick you have got bi pola you act like me on an episode a nasty wind up contoling people with words you know will make them react you just want the attention and you know how to get it.What fun.

[DebEspace]

I do give up me lithium every so often it normally feels great uplifting for the first few days. but it changes my personality so quick untill i black out and loose my memory.thats when there comming to take me away to the funny farm.

but the feelings you first get make you want to stop the lithium you feel like your tripping who wouldnt want that for free.

[RickMoonbeam]

A trip to DebEspace's channel page will reveal a gross obsession with hallucinogenic drugs, which is the reason for her "episodes". It has nothing to do with lithium use which is a red herring. By an amazing coincidence she claims below "during an episode i trip out and persive things like i was on shrooms or acid". Give people who claim to be "manic" a wide berth. Their capacity for deceit is the real problem. She now claims to be a singer/songwriter. Such people commonly live off welfare.

[DebEspace]

rick thank you for opening my eyes to these lies i keep telling to get money from the goverment thank you for understanding me like no other person can.i love you so much you are so clever how can i worship you?

[shoegalsho]

Lol what? 'Give people who claim to be "manic" a wide berth'

thats a bit of sweeping generalization. I'm Bipolar and have been manic on several occasions, so is my best mate. I have a job and have never claimed benefits. She is a Legal Aid lawyer and earns more than her husband, she has never claimed benefits. Neither of us have ever taken illegal drugs either.

[DebEspace]

first episode 1987 evryone around me was saying it was regresion progresion a spirit state of mind. by 1996 everyone around me sad i was ill and locked me in a nut house against my will.

it dont matter what i call it. it just happens.

[RickMoonbeam]

On the other hand things have been quiet on Loch Ness lately with hardly any sightings of the monster but,, predictably,, sightings of "mental illness" continue to proliferate amongst mental health aficionados and the psychiatric profession. Use the reply switch next time DebEspace so I'll be sure to know of your equally predictable responses.

[DebEspace]

ha ha ha I I CAPITAN.

[DebEspace]

during an episode i trip out and persive things like i was on shrooms or acid. I dont drink at all on or off an episode.there is a real big diffrence between me on one or not.

[RickMoonbeam]

Oh what fun! Are you seriously calling this admirable trait an illness? Stop trying to bamboozle us DebEspace. As with all claims of mental illness there are gross levels of dishonesty involved in your description of it.

[shoegalsho]

lol! RickMoonbeam you are not mentally ill so how would you know anyway. Do you have facts to back this up. Thats like saying that every time someone has a dream there are 'gross levels of dishonesty involved in your description of it' just because you were not there to experience it.

[DebEspace]

this is interesting having been told i have bipola since 1996, so by 1999 i was given lithium.

what they didnt say was how bad in fact worse my episodes would be if I didnt take the lithium its like a mental come down on top of an episode but still every now and then i just dont take it and end up in the nut house.

[RickMoonbeam]

Do pipe down DebEspace. You haven't told us what your "episodes" consist of in the first place. I'd be ever so surprised if they're anything other than going out on the piss,,, as I suspect is the case with Ruth here. This has certainly been the case with every other "manic-depressive" I've ever known and is certainly the case with Stephen Fry and his friends elsewhere on YouTube,

[plasticroses]

jenni560, I think you misunderstand. Brains are very unique, I agree. But when somebody is not taking medication, and their brain scan shows one thing, then their scans change as they start to feel better, that is pretty conclusive evidence for at least SOME neurological involvement. Drugs don't resolve the psychological reasons somebody is feeling low, but they can help lift people's mood enough so that they are well enough to tackle the psychological sources of depression.

[jenni560]

Yes but knowing what that neurological involvement is exactly (i.e. cause or effect etc) and what to do about it is another matter. People's brains change all the time, after psychological therapy for example, that isn't a cause to say 'hey lets just alter their physiology that'll make their lives better!'

[jenni560]

I agree with that last part that drugs can help if people are suffering severe depression and need something physical to help them cope temporarily, my problem is when drugs are the first and often only port of call for people who are either really unhappy or suffering mood swings. Psychiatrists need to stop pumping people full of drugs as if thats the best and only way to help someone...its clearly not.

[RickMoonbeam]

One can't "suffer" from "severe depression" jenni560. It isn't a disease. What matters is the quality of a person's mind and even then there is no guarantee of happiness. YOU could make a good start on improving your mind by being more critical of Ruth's "voices". Being able to see through her playing silly buggers with Rufus at the taxpayers expense gives me a good laugh.

[jenni560]

I know its not a disease!! but people who are feeling really unhappy most of the time I believe many of those people are suffering!

[RickMoonbeam]

Then we're agreed on that point jenni560 so in future let's avoid the quasi medical terminology and keep things crystal clear. There are indeed many wretchedly unhappy people in this world and I AM sympathetic as when I was fifteen I was one if them and fell into the clutches of psychiatry,, which of course made things a damn sight worse. For the record I would have far rather fallen into the clutches of Rufus flawed as his approach is. It's all a matter of learning how to live.

[jenni560]

Ok, thats fine by me. I think its hard not to slip into use of certain words because we're surrounded by them all the time. And I agree that it is about learning how to live and survive I guess...you managed to learn, presumably on your own?

[RickMoonbeam]

There are no more any brain scans capable of showing something like this any more than there are pictures of The Loch Ness Monster. Get wise to it people and don't fall for this modern day phrenology from plasticroses. Proponents of psychiatry love to bamboozle us with the latest psychoballs!

[plasticroses]

I realise it's a big waste of time to argue with you, Rick, so my last word on the subject will be this. Psychiatry is not junk science. Whether you like it or not, the mind is quite obviously not completely separate from physiology because if that were true, no drug would have any affect on it. LSD wouldn't make people hallucinate. Alcohol wouldn't impair judgement. Having a stroke would not leave some people with a different personality to what they had before. It's just common sense

[RickMoonbeam]

Having used in my time LSD, alcohol and psychiatric drugs I can assure you plasticroses that all drugs are a case of little things pleasing little minds. Your attempts to reduce us humans to victims of our physiology reduces mankind to creatures devoid of any stature. You will note that I am the one able to use YouTube without resorting to abuse like "it's a big waste of time to argue with you, Rick". I put my so-called "schizophrenia" behind me by holding MYSELF accountable, and I won!

[plasticroses]

A mental illness is any psychological disturbance which causes clinically significant distress to the sufferer. I'm not saying all mental illnesses have a neurological basis, some of them don't. I'm merely arguing that some do, and it's difficult to distinguish between the two. If the NHS could afford to do PET or SPECT scans of the brains of everyone who is mentally ill then treatment would be a lot easier but they can't so it's not done.

[RickMoonbeam]

Your expression "any psychological disturbance which causes clinically significant distress" is an example of what I mean by blatant nonsense plasticroses. Trying to bamboozle people with such junk science hyperbole is the sort of thing that I am trying to fight on YouTube and elsewhere. The mind is a philosophical entity and cannot and never will be a medical one.

[jenni560]

I find myself agreeing with RickMoonbeam on this one - its not a medical issue. Showing brain scans of people with 'depression' proves very little because we're still very far behind knowing EXACTLY what each facet of brain does, furthermore as usual everyone's brain is different. We also don't know what caused the differences in brain structure because that could be a side effect of the drugs NOT a cause of 'mental illness'.

[jenni560]

doing brain scans of everyone wouldn't help at all it would end up just being an excuse to use more drugs without resolving or exploring the reasons why people are feeling low etc.

[plasticroses]

It's you that's talking blatant nonsense. You might think it suits hypochondriacs but you're just discounting it as evidence because it doesn't suit your point of view, not for any real scientific reason. What is there to back up YOUR opinion? You sort of talk suits ignorant people. Your condemnation of neurological medications is like holistic doctors telling people with cancer not to have chemotherapy because herbal tea will cure them.

[RickMoonbeam]

I meant to ask you plasticroses but what is a "mental illness"? I'm sure Rufus May would ask you the same question. If there where a grain of truth in your assertion that there is a neurological basis for "psychiatric conditions" then they would be neurological diseases diagnosable as such which would be done within general medicine and we wouldn't need psychiatrists.

[plasticroses]

What about all the people who take psychiatric medication and get a hell of a lot better? Nobody ever talks about that because it's boring. If I don't agree with my psychiatrist she listens to my reasoning and I have refused one or two medications she's suggested to me for depression and she accepted that completely. They're not all drug-peddling maniacs as some people seem to presume.

[markae0]

Yes meds can help people. BUT people must have the choice to take it or not. Only if it has been proven in a court room the "patient" is a real danger to themselves or others should a free citizen be forced on medication.

[RickMoonbeam]

Courts don't make medical diagnoses let alone psychiatric ones markae0. Unfortunately they frequently have to listen psychiatric evidence. This is the problem. For example, the NGRI defence should be done away with along with psychiatry. The world of forensic psychiatry is too complicated to be explored here but suffice it to say that you cannot draw medical conclusions from legal ones.

[RickMoonbeam]

"Psychiatric medications" help people convince themselves and others that their problems are "illnesses" in the first place plasticroses,, otherwise they wouldn't be called "meds". This suits hypochondriacs. Any drug from whiskey to marijuana can be claimed "help" if the problem is being "depressed" or is as puerile as Ruth's "voices". I enjoy feeling depressed these days. I find it more challenging than The Times crossword,, but this hardly ever happens.

[plasticroses]

Feeling 'depressed' is not a mental illness. I completely agree that doctors should not just dole out medication for anyone feeling a bit blue. Mental illnesses are real illnesses with physical manifestations, there's already damage to the brain. Look at a SPECT or PET scan of a normal brain vs. a mentally ill one. For many conditions, those images return to normal following treatment with medication. How do you explain that?

[RickMoonbeam]

With a head full of this stuff plasticroses I can't see how you can fail to be anything other than depressed. I don't need to "explain it" as "it" is blatant nonsense. As I said this sort of stuff suits hypochondriacs. Your taking of "psychiatric meds" is a purely symbolic act just like Catholics taking holy communion.

[markae0]

Rick you are telling lies. Psychiatric drugs have a physical effect on the body and mind. That the medications work to "fix" the patient IS questionable. But chemicals DO have an effect on the body. Specially if the patient is habituated to them or physically addicted to them.

[RickMoonbeam]

This piece of conjecture of yours applies to all human activity markae0. Next time you help an old lady across the road remember that in your estimation it is probably just your body chemistry doing it. What by the way is a "physical addiction"? Are you peddling more hypochondriac excuses for helplessness?

[RickMoonbeam]

"I've stabilised on the drugs" states Ruth on the train (I think?). Being an actress performing this we wouldn't see the debilitating effect of such "treatments" anyway. If true and Ruth has been regularly drugged by psychiatrists then that is what she is suffering from,,, if anything at all. Forget all else. If you want to have depressions and mood swings etc. then take psychiatric drugs,,, or any other form of junk.

[TrillionMcMillan42]

I agree that often psychiatric medication often makes things worse and causes many new 'symptoms' without helping the original 'problem' at all but I don't agree that people experiencing voices are liars as you seem to imply.

[RickMoonbeam]

Psychiatric "medications" are used in factory farming to control distressed animals. They commonly result in neurological damage in mental patients that the psychiatrist will then tell us is their "mental illness". This psychiatrist tells us instead that Ruth's voices are real and THEY will result in an "intellectual impairment" if not "treated". Rufus lends credibility to this by also asserting that such voices are real. The psychiatrist, Rufus and Ruth are almost as bad as each other.

[jenni560]

Why is giving a person respect by agreeing that their experiences are real a problem to you? It's not really about whether they are real or not, it's about how you respond and deal with them - Rufus changes the meaning of the voices for this person and thus allows them to cope with something that cannot be simply taken away as a psychiatrist tries (and fails) to do.

[RickMoonbeam]

This "identity struggle" that Ruth is going through is just adolescent stuff. That's the point about Ruth (as portrayed by this actor). She's incredibly immature. There's no "illness" either biological or existential,,, the latter being May's version. AND I suspect she's a boozer hence the problems at work.

[jenni560]

Why do you suspect she's a boozer?

[RickMoonbeam]

To a psychiatrist "mental illness" is anything they want it to be. Not agreeing with psychiatrists for example is seen as a form of "delusion", called lack of insight. This psychoquack's assertion that non medication will result in an "impaired intellect" must be seen in that light.

[jenni560]

I agree with you on this point