Noone made any public defence of sola fide until after Luther had his revelation on the toilet. Before that, noone ever heard of such docturine. I want you to give me just one verse that says you are saved by faith ALONE. You cant find one, I have read the Bible all the way through, I have not found one verse to support the false notion of sola fide.
@YeshuaisYahweh1 "...the principal acts of saving faith are accepting, receiving, and resting upon Christ alone for justification, sanctification, and eternal life, by virtue of the covenant of grace..." (WCF 14.2)--"Faith, thus receiving and resting on Christ and His righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification; yet is it not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love..." (WCF 11.2)
The people that ws pricked in there hearts where the religious people that had crucified JESUS. They did not know they had did something wrong..that is why it said nothing about repenting of there sin. If you believe on Christ then you will forsake your sins. Your faith should cause you to REPENT=turn away from your sins!
agreed. The question is, where does Faith come from?(Ephesians 2:8, 1:19, Mat 16:17, John 1:13,6:44, 6:65, Rom 10:17, 1:16, 1 Cor 1:18-24, 1 Thes 2:13, 2 Thes 2:13-14, James 1:18-21, Luke 16:29-31, 18:11, etc.)
Also turn to John 3. John says in verse 36, "He who believes (which is the Greek word pisteuo) in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey (which is the Greek word apeitheo) the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (NASB) And I agree with jrutled3, why leave out so much scripture? Why are you taking so many verses out of context? If you have to twist scripture to support your doctrine..... it is wrong. Please, please, please.... study the context of verses!
Ok....Romans 14:16-18 says (NASB) "Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he who in this way serves (The Greek for "serves" being douleuo, which means to be a slave, serve, do service; or metaphorically, to obey, submit to.) Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men." This would exclude anyone, whether they have "faith" or not, you must obey!
I must not have made my thesis clear to you. Thanks for the comment. Please feel free to message me in more detail so I can see where you are comming from.
Well, thank you for replying in a calm and polite manner. Most people tend to get very angry when I try to have a religious discussion with them. What point are you trying to make with 2 Thessalonians 1:8, I'm not following what your saying? Is this verse not saying that those who don't believe in God and also those who don't obey the gospel will be dealt with be God?
Also, if you don't mind, explain why - if faith (which I understand can mean "belief in the unseen") alone is the answer - James says in 2:19-20, (NASB) "You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?"
I mean, if all you have to do is believe that Jesus is the son of the living God and you'll be saved, then Satan and his demons (who know this) should also be saved. As you can see by this analogy, that would be completely ridiculous (not to mention an evil way of thinking). That's why James says 2:17, (NASB) "Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself." So "faith alone" contradicts these verses. But again, thanks for replying in polite manner. It was much appreciated.
NZComfort, my thesis is that the faith is what justifies, but I agree this "faith" is more substantial than mere assent, but faith which worketh by love. You can't have faith without works, granted; but the faith alone justifies (Romans 3:28). This is because Salvation is by Grace according to God's Soveriegn determination before the foundation of the world. I agree that James 2 is relevant here. My appeal to 2 Thes 1:8 was relevant to conserve your mention of the word ἀπειθέω.
Perhaps I have a broader definition of Faith--epistemologically justified knowledge of the unseen (Hebrews 11:1,3). Thanks again for your Biblical appeals and comments! Grace to you,
@Bibletouchstone as a catholic we believe that we are Justified by Grace ALONE, threw faith but not faith ALONE as faith Alone word for word contridicts the bible "NOT BY FAITH ALONE" james 2:24. And is not LOVE greater then FAITH? how then can faith save alone but not LOVE. Are u not saved by GRACE and not faith? I suggest u read St Augustines letter on Grace and free will as this argument of the protest(GODs church)ants is answered in it 1,000 years b4 protestantism even existed
@gtepp031387 Thanks for your comments. I understand what you mean, for even the WCF explains, "Faith, thus receiving and resting on Christ and his righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification; yet is it not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love." However, the Protestant view does not hold that Righteousness is infused unto Justification.
@Bibletouchstone And where is your bishop? "let nothing be done in the church without approval from the bishop" and "Whoever opposes the bishop does in reality serve the devil" St Ignatious (st john the apostals successore) 107 A.D. I suggest u start following the historic christianity and not the man made heretical dotrin of one martin luther
I would also like to add to what NZComfort said by quoting Mark 5:6,7:
"He saw Jesus from a distance, ran and fell before Him, and cried out with a loud voice, "What do I have to do with You, Jesus, the Son of the Most High God? I beg You by God, do not torment me" (FHV).
If calling on Christ, through faith, is enough to save, then most assuredly these demons within this possessed man are saved and we will meet them in Paradise one day. Alas, I'm not quite ready to make that argument.
Oh, boy. Where to begin. For now I would like to point out that you conveniently skipped over 11 verses (5 very crucial ones, to be exact) when trying to claim that Paul instituted the doctrine of justification by faith alone in Romans 1. In fact, Paul extrapolates on how one has "died to sin" in verses 3-7.
And notice in verse 16 that Paul says that if you are under grace then you are a slave "of obedience resulting in righteousness". Faith alone? Definitely not. Study the context, friend.
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We are saved from our past sins as a free gift. Eph 2:8.
We were saved for a purpose, to do good works which God prepares. Eph 2:10.
God does not prepare filthy rags. We die to self and the flesh to do HIS works.
We were called to bear the fruit of righteous works. It is God at work in us.
If we do not bear the fruit of good works, we are cut down and thrown into the fire. Jesus said so.
StringPlunker 1 month ago
Noone made any public defence of sola fide until after Luther had his revelation on the toilet. Before that, noone ever heard of such docturine. I want you to give me just one verse that says you are saved by faith ALONE. You cant find one, I have read the Bible all the way through, I have not found one verse to support the false notion of sola fide.
YeshuaisYahweh1 11 months ago
@YeshuaisYahweh1 "...the principal acts of saving faith are accepting, receiving, and resting upon Christ alone for justification, sanctification, and eternal life, by virtue of the covenant of grace..." (WCF 14.2)--"Faith, thus receiving and resting on Christ and His righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification; yet is it not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love..." (WCF 11.2)
Bibletouchstone 11 months ago
The people that ws pricked in there hearts where the religious people that had crucified JESUS. They did not know they had did something wrong..that is why it said nothing about repenting of there sin. If you believe on Christ then you will forsake your sins. Your faith should cause you to REPENT=turn away from your sins!
TiredofHype09 2 years ago
"Your faith should cause you to REPENT",
agreed. The question is, where does Faith come from?(Ephesians 2:8, 1:19, Mat 16:17, John 1:13,6:44, 6:65, Rom 10:17, 1:16, 1 Cor 1:18-24, 1 Thes 2:13, 2 Thes 2:13-14, James 1:18-21, Luke 16:29-31, 18:11, etc.)
Bibletouchstone 2 years ago
Also turn to John 3. John says in verse 36, "He who believes (which is the Greek word pisteuo) in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey (which is the Greek word apeitheo) the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (NASB) And I agree with jrutled3, why leave out so much scripture? Why are you taking so many verses out of context? If you have to twist scripture to support your doctrine..... it is wrong. Please, please, please.... study the context of verses!
NZComfort 3 years ago
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Bibletouchstone 3 years ago
Ok....Romans 14:16-18 says (NASB) "Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he who in this way serves (The Greek for "serves" being douleuo, which means to be a slave, serve, do service; or metaphorically, to obey, submit to.) Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men." This would exclude anyone, whether they have "faith" or not, you must obey!
NZComfort 3 years ago
I must not have made my thesis clear to you. Thanks for the comment. Please feel free to message me in more detail so I can see where you are comming from.
Bibletouchstone 3 years ago
Well, thank you for replying in a calm and polite manner. Most people tend to get very angry when I try to have a religious discussion with them. What point are you trying to make with 2 Thessalonians 1:8, I'm not following what your saying? Is this verse not saying that those who don't believe in God and also those who don't obey the gospel will be dealt with be God?
NZComfort 3 years ago
Also, if you don't mind, explain why - if faith (which I understand can mean "belief in the unseen") alone is the answer - James says in 2:19-20, (NASB) "You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?"
NZComfort 3 years ago
I mean, if all you have to do is believe that Jesus is the son of the living God and you'll be saved, then Satan and his demons (who know this) should also be saved. As you can see by this analogy, that would be completely ridiculous (not to mention an evil way of thinking). That's why James says 2:17, (NASB) "Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself." So "faith alone" contradicts these verses. But again, thanks for replying in polite manner. It was much appreciated.
NZComfort 3 years ago
NZComfort, my thesis is that the faith is what justifies, but I agree this "faith" is more substantial than mere assent, but faith which worketh by love. You can't have faith without works, granted; but the faith alone justifies (Romans 3:28). This is because Salvation is by Grace according to God's Soveriegn determination before the foundation of the world. I agree that James 2 is relevant here. My appeal to 2 Thes 1:8 was relevant to conserve your mention of the word ἀπειθέω.
Bibletouchstone 3 years ago
Exactly Comfort!!!! Faith does not work alone
TiredofHype09 2 years ago
Perhaps I have a broader definition of Faith--epistemologically justified knowledge of the unseen (Hebrews 11:1,3). Thanks again for your Biblical appeals and comments! Grace to you,
Bible-Touchstone
Bibletouchstone 3 years ago
@Bibletouchstone as a catholic we believe that we are Justified by Grace ALONE, threw faith but not faith ALONE as faith Alone word for word contridicts the bible "NOT BY FAITH ALONE" james 2:24. And is not LOVE greater then FAITH? how then can faith save alone but not LOVE. Are u not saved by GRACE and not faith? I suggest u read St Augustines letter on Grace and free will as this argument of the protest(GODs church)ants is answered in it 1,000 years b4 protestantism even existed
gtepp031387 1 year ago
@gtepp031387 Thanks for your comments. I understand what you mean, for even the WCF explains, "Faith, thus receiving and resting on Christ and his righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification; yet is it not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love." However, the Protestant view does not hold that Righteousness is infused unto Justification.
Bibletouchstone 1 year ago
@Bibletouchstone And where is your bishop? "let nothing be done in the church without approval from the bishop" and "Whoever opposes the bishop does in reality serve the devil" St Ignatious (st john the apostals successore) 107 A.D. I suggest u start following the historic christianity and not the man made heretical dotrin of one martin luther
gtepp031387 1 year ago
Comment removed
jrutled3 3 years ago
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I would also like to add to what NZComfort said by quoting Mark 5:6,7:
"He saw Jesus from a distance, ran and fell before Him, and cried out with a loud voice, "What do I have to do with You, Jesus, the Son of the Most High God? I beg You by God, do not torment me" (FHV).
If calling on Christ, through faith, is enough to save, then most assuredly these demons within this possessed man are saved and we will meet them in Paradise one day. Alas, I'm not quite ready to make that argument.
jrutled3 3 years ago
Oh, boy. Where to begin. For now I would like to point out that you conveniently skipped over 11 verses (5 very crucial ones, to be exact) when trying to claim that Paul instituted the doctrine of justification by faith alone in Romans 1. In fact, Paul extrapolates on how one has "died to sin" in verses 3-7.
And notice in verse 16 that Paul says that if you are under grace then you are a slave "of obedience resulting in righteousness". Faith alone? Definitely not. Study the context, friend.
jrutled3 3 years ago
I must not have made my thesis clear to you. Thanks for your comment.
Bibletouchstone 3 years ago