2/5 OF DOCUMENTRY ON F-35 JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER

[TheMarelis]

Honestly, I think that the F35 is just an attempt to re-invent the Harrier. Only much more expensive and crapier.

[boffinboy100]

@TheMarelis

There have been only 3 successful modern close support machines: A10, Su25, Harrier GR--. for close support, you don't really need stealth, and although the Harrier does have an IR problem, why spend $bn on fewer F35s when you can upgrade the current ones?

[TheMarelis]

@boffinboy100

Sadly Harrier was retired, it was such a good airplane, first of its kind ... I think the only thing USAF and USN needs to do now is to replace F-18 Hornets with SuperHornets. They are only half the cost of the F-35 and above all else are battle-proven. Hell, this F-35 (aka shit) costs about the same as F-22 Raptor and I bet you it's not even half as good even though the F-22 has never been to combat

[boffinboy100]

@TheMarelis

you've got a good point.

[TheMarelis]

A10 is one of the best if not the best close air support aircraft. By ruggedness alone (let's not even compare weapon systems) the F35 loses badly. For multi-role fighter what's wrong with the F16 ? Just keep updating it with new avionics and software, it is one of the most successful aircraft of all time in that role. And if you need a new carrier-based fighter to replace F18 Hornets just make more Super Hornets, they are much cheaper and got the job done so far.

[LJSJIUJITSU]

@TheMarelis

I say they bring back the F-86 Sabre and update that design with more modern avionics. I think it would be a great aircraft.

[TheMarelis]

@LJSJIUJITSU

F-86 is too old, still it would be a better aircraft than the F-35 because it can actualy shoot down other planes but it's just too old. It's technology was suitable for the Korean war and to some extent Vietnam but not for a modern combat.

[TheKille22]

So all the blah blah blah put to the side it all comes down to the fact that they've built a 200 milion $ worth totally useless but cool looking airplane. Russians are building MiG's and Sukhoi's that are ugly as hell, more primitive, and cheaper but can actualy play their roll in combat situations. I'm a total amateur considering military technology and military in general, I'm watching this because I'm bored but this is how the situation looks to me.

[Spjungen]

Aircraft designs are all about specialization.

There are different roles for an airplane, and they demand different characteristics of the airframe if those roles are to be fulfilled successfully.

Probably the only exception was the F-16...it's probably one of the biggest successes of the aeorspace industry, and it was damn near excellent in all its roles for the price, which is why it's been so incredibly successful in exports.

Not all aircraft are like that though.

[zedeco]

@Spjungen well the f-16 was desing for short range air superiority fighter but the air force puted every thing they had on it, it could do every thing and that why the f-14 and f-15 could beat the f-16 other wise if the air force use it for what the falcon was desing for none of does 2 would ever beat it.

[Spjungen]

You gotta look at these projects and wonder...why didn't the F-22 run into difficulties? Or the B-2? Or the F-14? F-15? F-16?

The F-22 was cancelled in favor of the JSF...I will never understand that logic. Never in my life.

So many good aircraft scrapped...F-14...YF-23...it's so sad, it really is.

The DoD doesn't know what to spend its money on.

It's pathetic.

[Spjungen]

I can't wait for the F-35 to be phased out.

Lots of myths and bullshit about aviation flying around out there right now, and lots of lobbying in the government by lockheed.

DoD doesn't need it right now.

[Crownw3]

Trust Winslow Wheeler to tell the blunt truth in no uncertain terms :)

[xDustyRocker77x]

what is the best fighter for SEAD operations? JSF?

[mambo4269]

The F-15 was designed for normal air to air operations, high altitude, but mainly overland. In that environment it could encounter more capable fighters and was therefore designed in a different way. Unlike the F-14 there was no need for missiles like the Phoenix. The F-14 was basically build around the radar system. The F-15 was built as a highly capable dog fighter. So, if you want to go as little boys (my toy is bigger than yours) first define the specific tasks the planes where assigned to.

[mambo4269]

The 2 of you can go on like this for months to come and none of you realizes the main difference between the F-14 and F-15. The F-14 was designed to operate in a naval environment to provide CAP for the carrier. In a blue blue ops situation the F-14 would not encounter any aircraft which was more capable than the F-14.

In conflicts the carrier would be well off the coast. Anything approaching the carrier would be shot down without hesitation, that is the way the NAVY operates.

[MARTINELECA]

You have very good aircraft now!

F-15E Strike Eagle - Su-27,Su-35,Su-34,Mig-35,J-11,­JH-7,Su-30MKI,Panavia Tornado,Mirage 4000...

F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet - Su-33,J-15,F-14...

F/A-18 Hornet - Mig-29,Mig-29K,Eurofighter Typhoon,Rafale...

F-16 - J-10,F-2...

You don't need Stealth Aircraft, especially in the midst of an economic crysis.

Besides the Russians and Chinese aren't going head deep in that technology so why boder spending all that money on planes that can't even fly right. Let alone Fight.

[hotpocketpoison]

watch?v=OowCBVh8-_0

h t t p : / / w w w . lockheed martin . com / news / press _ releases / 2008 / 0919 a e _ f-35 setting record straight . html (delete spaces)

[zedeco]

@hotpocketpoison right. if you whant to sell smth, you are going to say that thing is shit? srsly stop reading propaganda, is like saying f-22 is the best whem he didnt do a single combat mission

[hotpocketpoison]

@zedeco first off EVERY FIGHTER IN THE HISTORY OF AERODYNAMICS HAS BEEN GROUNDED AT LEAST TWICE!!! so your link is empty. second what the fuck are you talking about??? they say it is shit??? every person who has flown the F-35 or seen its TRUE potential praises it, it has exceeded any and all expectations. the F-22 is the best, this is 110% unarguable. it hasnt flown any missions because there is no need to send an Air superiority fighter to carry out missions in a country that has no air force.

[zedeco]

@hotpocketpoison so you spent 200milion dollars+ to just sit on the ground?

f-35 the same potential as f-105 we got it

[hotpocketpoison]

@zedeco first of all the F-35A costs $122million per plane, since they are finished with the development stage and moving on to the final stages of testing that price will most likely stay that way, also the F-35 has better aerodynamic performance with a combat load than either the F-16 or F-18...i guess you were to scared to go to my links...how pitiful.

[zedeco]

@hotpocketpoison why should i go to our links, i dont belive what is on paper companys put out

[hotpocketpoison]

@zedeco - i would assume that is a given, but there are a lot of stupid people in this world(like yourself). remember,the F-15 sat idle in the US inventory for 15 years before it was ever used by the USAF...and it wound up racking up the best K/D ratio in the history of fighter aircraft. the F-22 has also gotten over 230 kills with only 2 losses(both being WVR, in which pilot skill is all that matters,it has nothing to do with the plane,also luck plays a huge part)in simulated A-A engagements.

[zedeco]

@hotpocketpoison f-15 ass raped by f-14 get a clue, and guess what stheal planes are not cheap to maintain, and pilots wont fly them that mucht

[hotpocketpoison]

@zedeco the F-14 is the best BVR fighter in existence(not counting the F-22)so i would assume it could beat the F-15 in BVR,but once you get into medium range and WVR the F-15 is superior. and thats what makes the F-15 better than the F-14,it can excel in all 3 ranges instead of just one. and stealth planes may be expensive to maintain,however the USAF has more than enough money to allow adequate training for its pilots. also the F-35 will be cheaper to maintain than any previous stealth plane.

[MARTINELECA]

@hotpocketpoison

I'm just glad my fellow americans are finally awakening and the government finally anounced the so-desperatelly needed defence cuts. I hope they axe the shitty F-35 and all other programs that would harm the economy and kill the combat capability. F-35 is the worst Plane and probably the most expensive one too /ironic/ on the planet.

Ofcourse they'll say they like it thei'r jobs depend on it. Everyone in the Congress have to be tried as enemies of the state!

[hotpocketpoison]

@MARTINELECA go to page 2 and read my links, the F-35 IS just as good as the pentagon is saying, if it wasn't,they'd cancel it,just like they canceled the MBT-70. also the majority of our planes are nearly or ARE 40 years old,their airframes are suffering from near crippling structural cracks,they WERE good planes but now they are barely air worthy,thats why we NEED the F-35 and the F-22(and the fact they are 10x superior to the planes they are supposed to be replacing and every foreign plane).

[MARTINELECA]

@hotpocketpoison

It's true that you have very old planes. And they do need replacement.

Well then build more of them, they haven't stoped being updated and they are still top edge technology that is quite suffiecient for everyone.

The only reason the pentagon says its good because the Congress is so corrupt and doesn't even care if the planes are worth it, all they care about is that it should cost a lot and should be well comercialised.

[MARTINELECA]

@hotpocketpoison

Deal with it, in your country the Military Industrial Base rules, ofcourse the Pentagon doesn't like it, but what can they do, they have kids to feed too. Pierre Osprey opened his mouth and now he is unemployed, but don't worry the project will die anyway, the USA can't pay off it's debt to China let alone offord a 700 billion dollar program.

[hotpocketpoison]

@MARTINELECA pierre sprey quit his job 30 years ago. also over the production span of the F-35(20 years)the plan is going to cost $320billion. not $700billion and not in one year. also what do you think out debt to china is??? $8trillion? we owe $1.2trillion to china, they are NOT the cause of our deficit.

[MARTINELECA]

@hotpocketpoison

OK if you say so. I don't really even care! It's coming out of your pocket not mine and you'r soldiers will be the ones going into combat without air support becouse all F-35s were shot down, not ours.

[zedeco]

@MARTINELECA f-35 can only dream do what the a-10 does

[MARTINELECA]

@zedeco

@zedeco

Thank you for the support! United we can stop this tide of liberalism and get over with prepairing for real WAR with the east. USA-EU Alliance can beat all!

[mambo4269]

@MARTINELECA

Please explain me who we are fighting then ? The Somali's ? Syria ? The Taliban ? Oh I get it.............Iran ? Yep, they have a pretty advanced air force ! I give them exactly 2 days. (just like Iraq during the Gulf War).

Oh, sorry, I forgot...........the Chinese !!

Sure, let's go to war with the Chinese, but what are we going to argue about and where will we fight this war ? Hmmm, no idea.

So basically we are looking at small scale conflicts against guerilla type warriors.

[sicumine]

@MARTINELECA u're an idiot! ;)

[MARTINELECA]

@sicumine

Oho so now were getting personal. Let me tell you something you brainless yankee!

The only reason the USA hasn't gotten itself into a war with Iran yet is because the Iranian Air Force has more than 5000 Mig-29s and more than 1000 Su-27s.

Of course the US has a lot more fighters than the Iranians do but they will suffer an almost 1 to1 casualty rate on fighters because almost all Iranian Pilots have been training for Years in Russia and thei'r Equipment is top edge.

[sicumine]

@MARTINELECA 40 (forty dumb-dumb ;)) Mig-29's, 25 F-14, 24 F-1 Rafale (seized from Iraq), THAT's iran's airforce - mr einstein! ;) top edge..he he he...

[MARTINELECA]

@sicumine

If you believe the things they write in wiki then you are dumber than anyone i've ever had the displeasure of writing to. In contrast the US Air Force has more than 6000 F-15s and more than 10 000 F-16 while the Navy and Marines have 2800 F-18 hornet and 1500 F-18 Super Hornet. Much better than Iran ofcourse but The US is a bigger country! Think about it, if you have the needed organ to do it.

[sicumine]

@MARTINELECA yes! and u are Napoleon, right? He he he, i haven't laughed that much in a veeeery long time!

[MARTINELECA]

@sicumine

I'm surpirised you don't know who Napoleon is!

He was the Emperor of France not a Teenager from Bulgaria you jackass!

[sicumine]

@MARTINELECA oooooooooo, so u're not him? and watcha doin' then? pullin' around an empty shoe with a string? Does your doctor knows? got your meds today?

[MARTINELECA]

@sicumine

I get the feeling you'r a kindergartner because you aren't responding properly and aren't making any sence. Eather that are you're just stupid, I laugh at the sight of dicks like you who don't know what they want in life so they decide to make a scandal with someone on the internet or jack off later on, instead of doing something productive. I hope you keep taking your pills and don't fight the guys with the white clothes.

[sicumine]

@MARTINELECA oops, i thought u were retarded...now i realize u're from... bulgaria!? i'm so soorry! :p

[MARTINELECA]

@sicumine

Yeah I'm from Bulgaria so waht? We've got Mountains and lakes and fields and everything, what have you got - a hole in the ground you call the GRAND CANYON! Wow you should be proud.

[sicumine]

@MARTINELECA right! ;)

[MARTINELECA]

@sicumine

Ok i think that both I and you have gone too far with the insults.

Both of us have beautiful countries.

Both of us arent retards.

Both of us just have different opinions.

So I call a Truce.

[hotpocketpoison]

@MARTINELECA wait, are you actually being serious??? only 1600 MiG-29s have been produced IN TOTAL, and only about 680 Su-27s IN TOTAL. where the HELL did you find that the iranians have 1000 Su-27s and 5000 MiG-29s??? sicumine is 100% correct.

[MARTINELECA]

@hotpocketpoison

The things they say in Wiki and infact the whole net are just a bunch of lies.

Truthfully noeone can say how many of any type of military hardware has been produced because that's a government secret. I read these things in a web-site that's like Wikileaks but for military things. And just for a fact the Soviet Union had 13 400 Mig-29s and 7000 Su-27s. Get real, can you imagine the Russian Air Force having just 250 Migs and 200 Sukhois?

[MARTINELECA]

@hotpocketpoison

Do you really bulieve that every country will post it's military streinght on the internet where everyone can see. If that's the case how come didn't the US know that Saddam didn't have any WMDs?

Well for starters he didn't post that on the Internet.

The things that you read in Wiki are redicilous.

[sicumine]

@MARTINELECA the bulgarian version might be..."redicilous" :p, but the english version is quite good, my little slavian "friend" :)

[MARTINELECA]

@sicumine

I never read the bulgarian version cous it's totall y fucked up and as you can possibly see im perfectly fluent in english and as i said I don't bulieve the stuff they write in Wiki cous how the hell can the unprofessional guys that write there jknow how many planes any nation has. Get me.

Oh and by the way I'm 2 metres tall so unles you are Godzilla don't call me little.

And were not fucking Slavians! We have Teuton and Persian Blood but not Slavic!

[hotpocketpoison]

@MARTINELECA go on wiki and go to the bottom of any page you like and click on any one the links provided under "external links" these are the sites people get their info from, its not just made up bullshit like your absolutely ridiculous numbers, i have yet to hear you say where you found those anyway XP

[MARTINELECA]

@hotpocketpoison

The guys form wiki got their numbers from other bullshit sites too .

It's a system don't you get it.

The US a more able to admit they killed kenedy than admit their military streinght to the public. And its the same everywhere else.

[MARTINELECA]

@hotpocketpoison

Oh and by the way! Have you heard of STATE SECRETS?!

[sicumine]

@MARTINELECA yo, these things are tracked down to serial number trust me. ;)

forgive my ignorance that everybody says that u and the serbs are kinda watered down russians...:).

[MARTINELECA]

@sicumine

Now I'm getting angry you jipsy. Stop calling us Russians our road to be sure comes from Afghanistan and we hate both Russians and the Serbs who have preety much the same ancestors.

[sicumine]

@MARTINELECA is too bad u hate them serbs, but hey maybe u can tell them yourself while u practically speak the very same language. ;)

[hotpocketpoison]

@MARTINELECA uhh...the problem there is they WOULDNT be shot down, maybe some, but ONLY some.

[zedeco]

@hotpocketpoison in china they work whit low saleries

[sicumine]

@MARTINELECA United States can pay off ANY debt based in US dollars, dummy. They OWN the printer. DUUHHH. :p

[MARTINELECA]

@sicumine

You can pay while the Dollar is still the World's Currency but there are serious talks everywhere even in the US about changing that. And I'll ask you to refrain from insults, I've done nothing to you.

[sicumine]

@MARTINELECA Now, that's a smart topic! Well done, Martine! :) and now seriously, change it into what? Euro? He he he!

[MARTINELECA]

@sicumine

How about you just leave the subject alright.

And stop writing directly to me.

I've egnough to do than chat with you all day.

[sicumine]

@hotpocketpoison yo, stop wasting your time with this idiots. ;)

[sicumine]

@MARTINELECA if u say americans are your fellows you wouldn't talk crap about F-35, the most important defense project in US history, Even being stupid isn't enough of excuse. ;)

[MARTINELECA]

@sicumine

You are right but I'm not speaking against the American People.

I'm criticizing the US Military Industrial Complex for being such corporative Bitches, the Pentagon for falling into its trap and the US Government for allowing such projects to cointinue because this project can only harm your wallet and your Security because as I said The F-35 isn't worth for Shit!

[zedeco]

@hotpocketpoison sorry to break it to you but the f-14 won in a dogfight guns only no missels lucky for the f-15 it was an exercise

[hotpocketpoison]

@zedeco and the F-15 has defeated the F-14 hundreds of times in dogfights...luck and pilot skill play the biggest parts in a dogfight, but having a good plane increases your chances at victory.

[zedeco]

@hotpocketpoison and that work backwords as well the f-15 and 14 are equal

[hotpocketpoison]

@zedeco the F-15 is far more maneuverable than the F-14, its RCS is also half the size, and it can carry MUCH more munitions, and is much cheaper. the F-14 is only technically better in BVR combat, but with the much higher RCS of the F-14 and the already excellent radar of the F-15 it actually makes the equal in BVR, while the F-15 is superior in every other category.

[zedeco]

@hotpocketpoison amazing that superior airplanes get beat by inferior air planes and no the f14 wasnt inferior to the eagle.

[hotpocketpoison]

@zedeco the F-15 is cheaper to produce,cheaper and easier to maintain,has superior service ceiling,superior maneuverability,superior max takeoff weight,lower RCS,superior multi role radar,superior range,more weapon pylons and much more gun ammunition, ineffably superior multi role capabilities,AND a considerably faster rate of climb. the F-14 only has a better A-A radar. this is why the F-15 beats the F-14 99% of the time they face each other in mock air combat. the F-15 is undoubtably superior.

[zedeco]

@hotpocketpoison dude does are to diferent things, f-15 was desing for the air force ofc is going to be cheaper it doesnt need to be heavy, f-14 was desing for the navy it needs to be heavy for crarrier ops, dude srsly what is on paper is not the reality, and USA is lucky since vietman you didnt face a competent air force

[hotpocketpoison]

@zedeco and had we faced a competent air force we would have crushed them, it is 100% indisputable. and you were the one who said the F-14 was"not"inferior to the F-15 when in reality it is in virtually every category besides radar range(however the F-14s radar can not detect ground targets).

[zedeco]

@hotpocketpoison watch?v=XQmsLK2hMz8&feature=re­lated

[91general]

@bujoun76 it is actually because it costs alot for e.g the 5th generation f-22 its testing is supposed to be 7billion

[saitek5678]

Sounds like the government srewed the pooch again, The plane looks cool but, these guys know there sheet, what a bummer. God what a waste. Piss me off, AAhhhhgggg.

[DarthFanta]

I don't know who to trust anymore, all these reports all just so conflicting. In one report, the F-35 was depicted as a decisive weapon in a war. On the other, it was depicted as a piece of crap, a.k.a "useless".

[MADGEEKSPANIARD]

@DarthFanta I'll help you, the good reports on the F35 are made by PR people who's only interest is money, and this one is made by experts, check out the names in the wikipedia about the people who is in this documentary and you'll now what I am on about.

[sicumine]

@DarthFanta trust your common sense ;). F-35 is built by the same people that conceived and built F-22 Raptor 20 years ago, only it is built with today's advanced technology in the ONLY country that has over 30 years experience in building advanced stealthy fighter planes. Them so called expert are in the best case phased out frustrated old farts or of course foes of US interests. Bottom line this is the most important military project in US history,

[VERGIS92]

@sicumine it's importnat dollar wise, but stealth? I seriously doubt it. If it is as stealth as the makers claim then what happens when F35 goes against another enemy F35 ? they won't detect each other? There's hot debate about Turkey getting F35 and if Greece should also buy, whatever the case isabout stealth, whether real or not, it appears that if Turkey attacks me with F35 I cannot counter that stealth attack using F35 since they are so stealth, can't detect one another

[VERGIS92]

@VERGIS92 simply put:

1) if it's REALLY stealth then one F35 cannot detect another F35, hence I don't have to buy F35 to counter a surprise Turkish attack.

2) if it's not stealth, I can rather invest a tiny fraction of the budget in detection tools, and again not buy F35

[Vosbraka]

@VERGIS92 Greece should start selling women to other countries if they want to survive their financial crisis. If turkey was to attack you,you would be screwed anyway.Since you and turkey, are in nato,nobody will attack each other.

[VERGIS92]

@Vosbraka nobody tells Turkey what to do, not even USA, the only thing that can deter an attack is a strong military, and believe me there were plans in the 80s, both for attack and for attempted unauthorized oil drilling, they were given 24 hours to leave and they left. if war happens within NATO, they just call it by another fancy name, 'intervention' or something, well, interventions are not different to wars

[pnelad14]

@sicumine You're arguing against people who have designed the F16 and the A-10....For some reason, I think they know more about aircrafts than you.

[sicumine]

@pnelad14 right, but this people say what they say not because they lacking knowledge my friend but just because it happens that F-35 will phase out the very planes they're designed ending their era of glory. ;)

[TheBojo1988]

Sorry for my poor english:/

But in reality if you build aircraft designt to do ewrything you will have plane that cant trully do anything

[blackstars56]

@TheBojo1988 that s very true

[mambo4269]

@TheBojo1988

You are right and the strange part is that the F-111 was the perfect example of the first try to produce an aircraft which would be capable of doing everything for both NAVY and Air Force. The result is known, the F-111 was only good in a strike role, the rest was pretty bad. In a dog fight the F-111 would use only one tactic..........light the burners and run at low level. Not a single aircraft could get close.

[myrtlevilleace]

Hasn't BVR technology functioned well since the 1991 Gulf War?

[bujoun76]

@myrtlevilleace Yes! Reliably so.

[myrtlevilleace]

@bujoun76 Yes see I thought so. Pierre Sprey has no faith in it, but I'm sure we had a few valid BVR kills in the Gulf and Balkan wars.

[cas343]

@bujoun76 Read: "Promise and reality: the air-to-air BVR" by Lt Col Patrick Higby, USAF - Virginia Military Institute

[cas343]

@myrtlevilleace Lt Col Patrick Higby, USAF - Virginia Military Institute

[vfIskullangel]

And to think the F-14 Tomcat canceled for this shit! No wonder nobody has faith in the USAF against the Russians Pak Fa and J-20.

[Antifaith29]

@vfIskullangel The f14 was cancelled due to its mantainence to flight ratio . Sure origonally the f35 was supposed to take over but really, i believe the F18 was the true replacement. the 35 is supposed to replace the 18.

I fucking hope not to be honest.

[keykikoo]

the MITSUBISHI F-2 is the best fighter in the world

[Soonerg2121]

@keykikoo THe F-2 is a great Combat Jet and The Japanese should stay away from the BS F22 and adopt the F-15 Silent Eagle as well as upgrade and refurbish their Current Fleets of F-15s. Like i told Lexusis here all I have to do is just send out my combat Jets such as the F-16,F-2, or even an F-15E as well as SU-30SMT and annihilate their air fields when their own Fleets of F22 and F35 are sitting ducks eating hot dog as they reload and shoot down their refueling tankers as well in the air.

[keykikoo]

@Soonerg2121 yeah, you're right. But you don't have to forget the french DASSAULT RAFALE. It's a serious deadly machine !!!!

[lexusls460L1]

The F-22 Raptor is & will be for a long while the most dominant fighter in the world!

[Soonerg2121]

@lexusls460L1The F-22 is as good as dead when the Jet can't even fly when it's raining.That means the F-22 can't be reliable in an all weather Air Superiority role.Like the F35 it's useless when you need stealth that hasn't been able to prove how effective they would be in combat. If you can't fly during bad weather? Well it means All I have t do is send out fighter bombers after I have decimated your air defense and destroy your run ways and Jet Hangers housing your F22 and F35 as sitting ducks

[hadikl]

Dont Walk... RUN.... :)

[bhigr]

O.K. so how about using the F-16 for bombing missions.

Wing load: 431 kg/m²

Thrust/weight: 1.095

Hard points: 2× wing-tip Air-to-air missile launch rails, 6× under-wing & 3× under-fuselage pylon stations holding up to 17,000 lb (7,700 kg) of payload

It's more maneuverable, it's faster and also carries as many bombs. Upgrade the old F-16s and use them for bombing missions. Get a Eurofighter for air superiority missions, IMHO

[bhigr]

If you want to use the F-35 as a bomber, you can't carry many bombs without sacrificing stealth. 6 × external pylons on wings with a capacity of 15,000 lb (6,800 kg)[108][112] and 2 internal bays with 2 pylons each[112] for a total weapons payload of 18,000 lb (8,100 kg). The external pylons means that you no longer have a stealth advantage. So it's not a very useful bomber either.

[bhigr]

Wing load:

F-35:  446 Kg/m²

F-22: 375 Kg/m²

Typhoon: 312 Kg/m²

Thrust/weight

F-35: 0.87

F-22: 1.08

Typhoon: 1.15

F-35 is not a good dog fighter. F-22 is decent. You don't want to use F-35 for gaining air superiority. So it's basically a bomber with good stealth. IMHO far too expensive for that mission.

[BadassMutha400]

Can anybody help me pinpoint the name of this program and the original air date?  I need to cite it for a paper.

[Elmarby]

@BadassMutha400

It's from a Dutch programme called NOVA, 12th of July 2010.

[glsblink]

Show one thing here classic Company/Stupid General/Greedy senator screw the USA people again and know endanger Air force pilot.

[BitnikGr]

@mikeprillaman Somehow, F-16 and F-18 can work perfectly by its own. They can provide escort to ground attack squadrons of same type. If F-35 can't conduct air battle of its own, at all distances, then it sucks!

And in no way, F-35 can't replace A-10 in CAS role. Actually it can, but it will fail!

[bhigr]

Aaaahhh, aaaaaaaaam, aahhhmmmmm, aaahhhmmmm.... at some point, it really pisses you off. Otherwise, he nails the point.

[Eravenus]

@mikeprillaman

What brother ?

F22 was CANCELED.

Stop eating so much shit. And if you care so much about numbers, i would rather get 17.000 F16 than 1.700 F35.

[ApacheCobra]

@Eravenus The F-22 wasn't cancelled.

[JCrownwell]

@ApacheCobra

"The F-22 wasn't cancelled."

Though they're keeping the ones they've already built (at great cost in maintenance for selectively few aircraft), they've effectively ended the program. Now that it's clear that the F22 has numerous technical and maintenance concerns, in addition to grotesque procurement costs, they are highly unlikely to build any more in future.

[edwardtang1977]

if it can't supercruise without using after burner then it is easily detected. After burner adds a lot to your RCS. I say stop funding a mistake and design a new one. Be thankful it is not already made and your buyers have to find out the hard way.

[BitnikGr]

@edwardtang1977 The whole project already passed the no-return point. It is too big to fail now. They'll spend more and more and more and even more in order to make something of it... anything.

[xsf908]

F-22 Raptor has 2 engine but why F-35 has only one ?

[BitnikGr]

@xsf908 Because it has to be smaller. Hi-low. Hi F-15 also is a twin-engine air superiority fighter, meanwhile a "low" F-16 is a single engine, smaller multirole fighter.

[ScoundrelzNTwK]

@mikeprillaman BULLCRAP you should be a politician you seem to be taken in by fancy defense industry dreams.

[JD12ish]

I'm curious what these two guys, who obviously really know their stuff, would have to say about the F-15, F-22 and then Eurofighter Typhoon/Dasault Rafale. What about the latest Russian derivatives of the famous Flanker?

[JD12ish]

The more complex you can make a single unit, the more expensive it is, the more added value it has, the more pure profit the company making this has. And that’s the REAL reason why the US has F-22s and JSFs.

[88warwolf]

@JD12ish bingo

[brown9708]

straight from the horses mouth. F-23 Black Widow might have been a better deal for the AF and Super Hornet for Navy

[aon10003]

@brown9708 They tried to fix the F22 for the Navy and it turned out to be a whole new aircraft, thats probably what will happand to f23

[vfIskullangel]

F-35=Thunderchief II

[gio957]

if the old beefer is right which i think he is,we're doom

[vk45de]

f16 has a pretty high wing loading too

[MokomaSusi]

@vk45de

F-16 is not fat like F-35 is.

[onceANexile]

This loks like a FUCKING-PEICE-OF-AMERICAN-SHIT­-PIE, and it likes like one,

The chinese are going to kick our asses...

[Arkanboys]

Flying rock !

[Vykuk123]

Pierre Sprey is the man !!!!

[tman78au]

I hope the Australian government ditch this aircraft. There has to be a better alternative to the F-35. As an Aussie I hope they'd consider buying the Typhoon, cheaper, better load out, better performance and from what I've heard, done pretty well against the F-22 as well.

[aussienscale]

@tman78au it does not matter if it is doing well against the F22, because the F22 will never be used in combat, its just a show piece

[bidon3332000]

@tman78au or you may want to buy Rafales, as they've beaten down their competition over the UAE in 2009 ;) but this wouldn't be a diplomatic choice anyway, so Australia will stick to the F35 :/

[fanofrhymeswithstar]

@bidon3332000

The RAAF have an anti-french bias that developed from the Vietnam War. Back then, the RAAF were equiped with Mirage 3's and were thinking of sending them into combat in SEA. But the French told Australia that they will withhold support for the plane if they did. The RAAF never forgot that, and when the Mirage 2000 was offered for the 1980's fighter competition it was quickly dismissed as a suitable candidate to replace the Mirage 3s. Eventually we purchased the F/A-18 Hornet.

[bidon3332000]

@fanofrhymeswithstar That's why it is always preferable to develop domestic weapons. Buying off-the-shelf is much easier and cheaper, but you are never free to do whatever you want with such weapons...

[wellerocks]

@tman78au Oh no, compared to the F-35 the typhoon might be better, but comparing the Typhoon to other 4.5 generation fighters, it's expensive as a bitch in a shoe store, it hasn't proved to be very efficient at neither reconnaissance nor dog-fighting. Two much better choices for Australia would have been to chose either the Gripen NG, a very competent and cheap fighter jet, or the Rafalé, the improved and perfected version of the Eurofighter. The Super Hornet isn't even close to them.

[Kirkzzy]

@tman78au Well we still need a good bombtruck/strike fighter so maybe 24 F35s, and 76 Typhoons/any other Air Superiority fighter.

[fanofrhymeswithstar]

@tman78au

No chance. Since there are Australian companies that are contributing in the production of parts to the JSF program the govt. will not change its mind because those companies stand to make alot of money out of this. IIRC there was some debate concerning how the F-35 was ultimately chosen to equip the RAAF, specifically some allegations that the competition was not conducted correctly/cut short. And BTW Lockheed Martin has a history of bribing officials of foreign govts/companies.....

[incar95678]

He's spot on! If you don't believe this guy, look up Pierre M Sprey who worked on F-16 and A-10. Sprey left the Pentagon in the 80's in disgust as he thought it would be impossible to build another honest airplane - how true.

For more background, check out 'Boyd, the fighter pilot who changed the art of war' and 'Americas Defence Meltdown'.

[gethsoftware]

@incar95678 what kind of military is lead this way? are they trying to get usa bankcorrupt? only reason why russian and china are getting in to this 5th gen race is bechose usa started it. worst thing is that they are actualy making real planes instead of doing it for defence contractors.