The Stigma

[TheStigma]

I approve of the title of this video! ;)

(and hey - also the message, good work)

[Pilgrim812]

You see the issue clearly What a brillant, even perspacacious commentary!

There are far reaching consequences both to those who stigmatize and

those who are stimatized in this sad game. I am a believer who rejects

religion and dares to seek God without mediator or veil. I believe first

and foremost in the soul of man and the collective nature of that soul.

When we damage someone else we also damage ourselves.

[GnosticAtheist]

Yeah, pretty much agree. Not in all cases. As a fag I have never really felt any problems. Oh right I live in Norway...

[sakurasky]

Homophobia tells me more about a person's self-esteem than their (so called latent) sexual orientation. Stigmas against homosexuality, and many other stigmas for that matter, strike me as more akin to why people love trashy talk shows. I see it as people with low self-esteem hating on others as a way to feel slightly superior. Remove the stigma, and you remove someone's (laughable) measuring stick of their own sense of worth.

[rehndawg]

Although I'm a Diest by heart I visit my local Catholic Church because that's how I feel closer to God in a house of Worship...it can be any church but since it's at the corner I go there. Although raised Catholic I don't support their negative ideals being Anti-Gay marriage. The whole focus on child molestation is BS and an attack on a religion. There are Christian abusers and Buddhists aswell. But I support gay marriage.I support abortion.priests & nuns should marry like in the middleages

[dollhog1]

This is an excellent observation you've made. I hope you don't mind if I use it next time I'm in a conversation with one of the many homophobic people i will inevitably run into.

[EyeLean5280]

I read in one of the major news magazines once that scientists did a big study on men convicted of violent crimes, in which they showed them both gay and hetero porn. For most crimes the majority of men responded to the straight porn but the men convicted specifically of gay-bashing violence overwhelmingly got their erections looking at the gay porn.

[swineinfluziest]

I think it also has something to do with feeling masculine and powerful. If these guys can somehow spin in their mind that gay= weak and straight = powerful and they can beat up gay people or rally against them its an ego boost in a sick inconsiderate kind of way

[Mrtitmice]

by the way, kudos to you for bringing an engaging topic to the table, interesting channel. :D

[Mrtitmice]

5 stars for a clear opinion but i disagree to some of what you said, that said, i realize its a video,so you cant debate my comments or refine your own...I believe that strangers are more tolorent of lesbians then their own family.

I'm glad there is a little stigma, its just like a 13 year old is not allowed to drive on the street, but its good hes allowed to drive a car on his families property. I'm not against the gay community, I just don't want it shuved down my throat, i am against hate.

[Vuijox]

"It's not for preserving families 'cause then there'd be rallies against divorce."

That's perfect. Five stars.

[ambigera]

Saints fan eh?

[rja125]

wow! 5 stars... well said.

[debbieomi]

These people who perpetuate the stigma don't realize that when there is an act of violence against a gay person, it generally brings out more support for the cause.

There was an incident in my area nearly 20 years ago involving a man leaving a gay bar. He was followed by two thugs who beat him for no reason other than he was assumed gay because he left a gay bar.

[debbieomi]

There was a huge backlash from the community. A task force of support was begun and as a result, this area is now touted as one of the most gay friendly areas in Michigan.

[NimhLabs]

They also do not realise that because of many gay men's fears of being beaten up, they have started taking self defense courses.

I have heard more than a few stories of some would be gay basher getting their ass handed to them by their supposed target.

[Existantia]

I really enjoyed your video! Thanks!

[imaginenoreligion]

Finally I feel I can come out. I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

Phew, that feels better!

Destroy the stigma

[NimhLabs]

Uh==right.

So, when are you starting the gender reassignment therapy?

Yeah, the term "lesbian trapped in a man's body" leads more to the idea of a MtF transexual who takes on a homosexual sexuality after they get their correct gender set up--which would have them as a, you guessed it, a lesbian.

And knowing is half the battle...

Cooooobra!

[Cimbolic]

Excellent point. There are no rallies againt divorce.

[dominictemple]

Very well said my man. 5 stars.

[hinotonlife]

True words. It's taught like anything else.

I know gay actors in the old days had to have beards....(a woman they were either forced to marry or had to pretend to be dating in publicity shots.)

It's sad that they were never able to step out of an acting role in their public lives.

Movies and television have slowly been dissolving the stigma somewhat I think which is good because a lot of people are heavily influenced by movies and television.

[MinervaInTheBrain]

A high percentage of people I know, that hate/don't care at all for homosexuals, are people that seem to be gay or not straight. The rest are just conspiracy theorist bigots for Christ.

[TheSorrowLives]

Dude can you make a video where you say 2+2=5? Just so I know you can say something that isn't true. 5* again your vids are perfect every time.

[NimhLabs]

Two plus two however, does equal five for abnormally high values of two (such as 2.49999999 + 2.49999999).

Also we get into Erisian type math, where five is _always_ the answer. As well, everything could be made into five. Just some ways are highly convoluted in getting there. The more you turn stuff into five, the easier it becomes.

[2Jax]

People that are anti-gay are so partly because they fear the reaction of their anti-gay community if one of their friends or family is openly gay IMO.

This is a self perpetuating cycle because: you teach your kid to hate gay people so they won't be gay and so they/you won't get treated bad (putting it mildly) but this means you are adding to the hate that you're trying to protect your kid/yourself from.

Just my opinion and not the whole picture but a big part IMO.

[NimhLabs]

Well--yes... but in reality this tends to hurt people who are closeted homosexual or cisgender.

While the idea of gays having issues coming out is more or less starting to die down where I am (which Alberta, Canada, home to the mass of Canada's Redneck population... so yes, this is odd).

You get many people of the cisgender area being rather confused by this "protection". It only serves to hurt and confuse them.

[BohemianBlasphemy]

Five stars, sir.

[johndalymusic]

thanks for posting, well thought out and insightful as usual.

[NimhLabs]

Well, the reasoning on why Lesbians are good and gay men are bad--well, it was explained on an episode of 2 Sense (a podcast run by an exchristain who is "now" a gay furry), the the reason Lesbians are good, is most men would love to have sex with a girl. Lesbians are essentially two girls having sex with the man somehow involved.

Just to counter this point: compare most of the fans of Yaoi--girls who enjoy seeing two boys having relations with each other.

[Key2daUnderground]

@NimhLabs

I agree. But another way to look at it is because one of the traits that come somewhat attached to being a gay male is femininity. Masculinity in a girl (tomboy or what have you) isnt an eye sore to society. A girl in a long shirt & baggy jeans is still a girl. But a feminine guy wearing tight jeans or heels even leaves a much more "unease" feeling on the public. The question is why. I dont know. Just my take on it.

[DoctorMeh]

"guy wearing tight jeans or heels even leaves a much more "unease" feeling on the public. The question is why."

What if its something like a class thing?

Men are above women so shouldn't act like them.

But women can aspire to be better and act male.

Whites are above blacks so shouldn't act like them.

But blacks can aspires to be better and act white.

If that's true, then I guess a flaming gay "whigger" would make some people's head pop right off.

[NimhLabs]

Right--I never got why people thought the only way to be gay is to be a complete twink. You know--some of the most manly people out there are also fairly gay as well.

These are called "Bears" in this community. Twinks are the effeminative ones, where as the Bears are the big muscly/burly hairy men. The ones that you do not pick fights with in a bar unless you are really drunk, stupid and insecure.

I really never got why people often exclude Bears in their sexual dichotomies.

[BlowDevilUp]

While you're so close to the camera and all of your (handsome) features are clear and filling up the screen, I can imagine hunting mammoth with you and the other tribesmen in the tundra.

[AndrewTheEternal]

I find the phrase 100% heterosexual rather puzzling. Heterosexual is not a positive term; it is an exclusionary one. 100% heterosexuality doesn't mean I would find every woman sexually attractive, it means I wouldn't find any man sexually attractive. Wouldn't 0% homosexual be more fitting?

Pedantry aside, excellent video.

[NimhLabs]

Well, then we would have to replace the 100% homosexuals with 0% heterosexual on the same reasoning.

[ThaGMan51]

Isn't heterosexuality defined as the tendency to be sexually oriented to persons of the opposite sex? It doesn't seem like an exclusionary term, even though it is usually used that way.

[AndrewTheEternal]

Fair enough point. I was noting that that definition does not lend itself to percentages well; '100% heterosexuality' implies that one would be sexually attracted to all people of the opposite sex.

I think crow-baring numbers and percentages into something as subjective as sexuality is a disingenuous method for insecure heterosexuals to shore up their self-image. I tried to make that point in a round-about way above, and didn't do it very well.

[NimhLabs]

Well, a better way to think of if is more of a continuum sort of thing. Where at one end we have all those wonderful faggots making the world a better place--these are at the 100% gay range. Then at the other end we have all the straight people who--er wait? What is it that straight people do? I mean--breed I guess, which is debatably a good thing. These are the people who are at the 100% range And in the middle we have the fence sitting bisexuals who cannot make up their mind at 0%.

Continuum.

[Arkalius80]

Don't forget to mention the fact that knowing where a gay bar is doesn't have anything to do with your sexual preference...

And for some homophobes, the prospect of another man exhibiting any sexual desires toward themselves really freaks them out, and they can't escape the feeling that, if in the presence of a gay man, that they're being "checked out", and they feel threatened by this for some reason.

[Phoobar1]

Thanks for your thoughts, Crstofer7. I'm glad I shared this incident with you. I've added links to my articles about the core of homophobia as I see it.

Your channel rocks, brother. You are a champion of reason, so please don't stop. Even if you do sometimes have to cover the same topics.

[Diasanti]

...there would be rallies against divorce.

As soon as you said that, I said to myself. " I never thought of that."

Well said, 5 stars.

[rayzaa14]

i agree my bratha, well said.

[BoozyBeggar]

This is a (hetero) man's world. No stigma for lesbians because it's sexy for us. Sad, but true.

[Trastlol]

@BoozyBeggar "This is a (hetero) man's world"

What do you mean by that?

[BoozyBeggar]

I mean every society still in existence today was built by and for heterosexual men and they still don't care much for anyone else save who can better serve them and its gonna be a long time before blah blah blah things get better, blah blah blah. You get the idea, right?

[xx1Alex1xx]

Stigma isn't a rational thing. It's a social defence mechanism that humans have developed to allow us to adapt more thoroughly to different environments.

[KazukiSeirei]

Well said my friend, well said indeed!

5/5!

Peace.

[bishop8000]

Cristofer7, you have a way of cutting through bullshit and showing things as they are.

[Nextstopearth]

I don't think it's so much that these cunts are afraid of being gay, I think they are afraid of being perceived as gay.

[klalkity]

But that fear is clearly overcompensation.

[SpazzedOut56]

You sir, are a smart motherfucker.

[equallyeasilyfuqyou]

wise words man.

[patrickledford420]

lol arnt u a christian

[CrippledRetardo]

No, he's an atheist.

[beltanebabe55]

Well said, makes a lot of sense.

[ravenslaves]

Things are changing, as they always do. Look at the CPAC speech, where that homophobe was booed off the stage. The argument, that gay marraige will destroy the institution of marraige, has never been explained, and fails.

...Unless....

The thought of marraige between two men is so attractive to me, that I leave my wife and kids, to be with another guy...0_o

In which case, my marraige has (much) bigger problems than recognizing gay marraige as a right.

[NimhLabs]

Oh, here is why gay marriage would ruin the institution of marriage:

Gays would marry each other because they actually love each other, and not because of some desire to procreate.

This would cause a sheer drop in the divorce rate.

As well all know having a 65+% divorce rate is what the institute of marriage is all about.

I mean--if we did not have an insanely high divorce rate marriage would be completely destroyed!

THE SHOCK AND HORROR!

[ravenslaves]

@NimhLabs

You're right!

Why didn't I see it?

The BASTARDS!

They'd probably stay married too, just to flaunt it in our faces.

We can't have it...nope...just can't.

GOD HATES FIGS!

(he doesn't like the little seeds)

:P

[StrapOnDildoSexRulez]

that guy is damn sexy, all black guys are.

[cocoa8872]

@StrapOnDildoSexRulez The comment is racist and quite ridiculous if you realize it or not...nice user name.

[NimhLabs]

Naw--not really.

His statement is no more racist than somebody saying all Redheads are hot, or girls with jade eyes are the most sexy creatures out there.

The same element of human chemistry that causes skin colour also influences hair colour and eye colour.

Which is why I think I am justified in saying we should all hate those damn Ginger bastards!

[MrDustandechoes]

You're the best vlogger on youtube, IMO.

[amberview30]

Well, I always wonder about those people who say homosexuality is a choice. If they feel it is a choice, there must be some kind of choice that person is making. I know because I can't suddenly choose to be homosexual after all, but perhaps if there were some stigma to heterorsexuality I might try to fit in by performing actions that would feel unnatural to me.

[jambimon]

I had never thought about it from that perspective. Its scary what real, deep-seeded fear/guilt can do to a person. Maybe someday the world will be just, but not any time soon...sad

[NimhLabs]

Right--at a school I grew up at. There was a kid named James who would attack anybody if they suggested he was gay. Just completely flip out.

This was a kid, who had long hair that he tried to keep good care of, and tended to talk like a valley girl. Spend all of "his" time talking about girly anime series.

I met her recently. This was the kid who would destroy a class room at any chance of questioning "his" gender or sexuality. And now one of the biggest supporters of the gay community here.

[NimhLabs]

Oh right--turns out "he" was not gay. Technically MtF and Bi--so yeah, she had a lot of screwed up stuff going on in her mind.

[proteanview]

This is so insightful. 'The stigma' applies to a lot of issues.

[itsmaxinthebox]

Fantastic video. Great insights. -Max

[metalorg]

People driving around asking directions to gay bars to find someone homosexual to beat up sounds like it's from a movie; that is, not part of the world we live in reality but something where someone has made up villains for their story.

[fc007]

@metalorg

Sometimes art mimics life. There are people out there who are that petty. I've met a few.

[BudhagRizzo]

Interesting! They propagate the stigma, yet are victims of it.

My former district manager is a dude who has a wife, but it's painfully obvious that he is a closet homosexual in total denial. He's also one the most miserable shitheads I've ever met, making constant unreasonable demands of his subordinates. If he could just admit the truth to himself, I'm sure he wouldn't be as abrasive a guy. Just another promoter/victim of the stigma.

[CognosSquare]

Socialism seems to have a similar stigma in the US. Its even purer "an idea" rather than a possible revulsion to something biological.

I live in a "socialist country" by american standard and can see the debate just not being truthful or constructive in america.

I think the "obama truther"-stigma that arose recently was a good thing though.

[tattooskin72]

excellent video. It's frightening what people will do when they fear something within themselves or another.

[KasparHauser4]

I think you are 100% correct. Back in the 1950s most of the guys in my neighborhood were sworn to beat up and kill a homosexual if we found one. We never did find any. At least in our neighborhood because of the fear we had instilled in them I suppose. It did make for peace and tranquility. Nobody ever thought about gayness because of the heavy taboo. But Lesbianism even in the 50s was tolerated.

[NimhLabs]

I grew up in the 1990s. Our big thing was "it is okay to be gay--but just do not hit on me, or be gay around me. Otherwise your ass is going to be kicked."

Oh, right and every kid had "faggot" in their vernacular of insults meaning "the worst piece of scum alive."

And the idea of a transsexual being a dirty trick that only gets done to somebody that that the person sending a tranny prostitute(to us tranny prostitute was a redundant statement BTW) really hates. As a form of joking revenge.

[TheKingOfRuckus]

Great video as always. What you said applies to a lot of issues that are considered negative when they really aren't at all.

[Katalyzt]

Indeed ★★★★★

[onlywhenprovoked]

Almost all of the women I have dated have been bisexual, or admitted having a strong bisexual desires. Anti-equal rights types will argue that this is evidence of how homosexuality spreads if deemed acceptable, but I think you're right... I think it's just a matter of people being themselves when less pressured.

[Textra1]

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. The Sodom and Gomorrah stories are an expression of homophobia, not the cause of it. I think similarly for the Jesus Myth. The story is an expression of Antisemitism. I mean how blatant can it get; Judas betrayed Jesus. Ju-das, Jew-das. It's a contrived story if ever I heard one.

[p717]

Jesus was a Jew too. - But the stigma was there. The Romans, who had the rule of law at that supposed time, weren't considered responsible for the death of "Jesus" by modern religious standards even though they decreed it.

[jjason55740]

@p717

no actually the governor that authorized the execution was a elected official and the only way he could keep his office was to alteast pander to the will of the mob of jews. Well at least thats what they taught me in Catholic sunday school.

but then again they told me you can fit dinosaurs on noahs ark.

[NimhLabs]

This happens in every rights movements.

During the Black Civil rights movements the story of Kane and Abel was used as a "legetiment" argument against Black Civil rights.

During the women's rights movements the story of Eve giving Adam the fruit of enlightenment was used as the official argument as to why women should only be able to stay in the kitchen, fetch men their beer and produce a baby every nine months.

The next rights movement will have another story come up to justify why its sin.

[melowar78]

I've never been attracted to the same sex...and its fun as shit to mess with homophobes. I believe that they are hiding/fighting their inner homo. Good vid and valid points.

[jjason55740]

umm I idon't think that was true.

I've always been a strict strait person and I truly never have questioned my sexuality nor have I found any reason to be attracted to any thing other than the opposite sex.

I was a homophobic because I believed in the bible.

But now I realize Christianity only stigmatized homosexuals because it was homosexuals that tried raping Abrahams son in Sodom and Gomorrah in the same way the nazi christian Europe stigmatized Jewish people for killing Jesus.

[Cristofer7]

jjason55740- I am not speaking on simply thinking homosexuality is wrong. I am trying to imagine what is at the heart of those who actively try to harm or deprive homosexuals rights.

The passion these particular homophobes display goes beyond simply thinking it is a Bible sin. I also think it is bigger than a hatred born of a story about homosexuals trying to rape Abraham's son.

[jjason55740]

actually I disagree because homophobia is not universal among bigots.

in pre christian rome homosexuality wasn't the least bit considered taboo or immoral.  And prior to Abraham there is no mention of homophobia. Notice after Abraham god destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and homosexuality was treated as evil but b4 Abraham there is no mention of it and as evil as people were suppose to be neither noah or god say the flood happened because of people's homosexuality.

[NimhLabs]

Well--the issue is here... these people clearly were not acting in a way that indicates that the Christian lord is a kind an loving person.

They went a little bit across the line, to show their is something the matter with them.

A Christian who does not believe that homosexuality is correct, but is secure in their sexuality would not attack the gays.

No, they would counsel them--and try to convert them peacefully.

Conversions from fear of mass beatings are not in proper conversations.

[jjason55740]

@NimhLabs

yes you are absolutely correct but the stigma of homophobia originates from biblical scriptures. Even most Christians scorn homosexuality and for those low life losers it makes sense to jump in on a stigma thats already accepted by the majority. In Pre christian rome homosexuality wasn't taboo and it would be pointless to make fun of someones homosexuality since people flaunted there being gay just as openly as heterosexuals do about there sexual preference.

[jjason55740]

@NimhLabs

I made a video response up above . I'm explaining how homophobia originates from relgion.

[semigotbanned]

great observation

[oojamaflipper]

good insight here

5 *s

[freedom0f5peech]

I don't think anyone can be "100%" hetero/homo-sexual, but I know what you mean.

[Care4alot]

good point thanks ;o)

[maulcs]

indeed.