Hello agian mr. bishop8000. About your little description, not all are 'athiest' of most of the acient gods. And the next logical step isnt a denial of God. Its looking into science and acient religion. Looking to the future and the past. The acients were on to somthing with their beliefs, you cannot deny that.
The teapot analogy misses the point. Biblical faith did not arise from ancient Hebrews sitting down and wondering where the universe came from, and thus came up with God as an answer. Biblical faith arose when the Hebrews experienced a saving God who delivered them from Egypt. It was only later that they came to believe this same God to be the creator God of the universe.
@WSGAC Just like all of the thousands of "holy" books that we have on hand, the Jewish one that you happen to believe in came from ancient superstitious men making up answers to questions that they couldn't answer.
@bishop8000 - Obviously you missed the point. But if you'll read all those other ancient holy books you will find that they simply try to answer the question, "Where did we come from?" or "Why does nature/universe operate the way it does?" In this way, science is much like paganism from of old. It tries to answer the same questions. Biblical authors did not begin with that as their starting point. The Exodus event has nothing to do with superstition. Low and behold, it happened!
except that atheists rarely ever say 'there may not be a god' they state unequivically that a god does not exist. christians on the otherhand usually only express a faith that God exists. this is more philosophical than scientific. bottom line is that science will never prove God one way or the other. God will ever remain a probability, some believe in the negatvie probability while some others believe in the positive probability. the universe is likely more strange than we think...
@cwross1976 Every atheist that I've met acknowledge some degree of possibility that they're wrong. I've never heard a single atheist be unequivocally certain that there's no god.
@bishop8000 No atheist just dont believe in religion. it does not mean they discount a god could possibly exist, they just think religion is false, because they dont believe in a personal god or that the bible/torah/Quran are true at all, those religions have been proven false time and time again. The problem with religious nuts is that they bend the words or edit their bibles to keep up the lies of their books from modern day scrutiny. Religion is a lie. God is not yet proven.
@bishop8000 Because atheists aren't retarded, unlike religious folk. We aknowledge the possibility of anything because without disproof you cannot prove something doesn't exist for a fact. Which is why we think such a strong belief in god is so ridiculous and hilarious. Why believe in something so strongly that may not exist at all? It's like.. I'm going to believe in a waffle god because a group of men wrote a book about it and I BELIEVE IT'S FUCKING REAL THEREFORE IT IS, DON'T JUDGE ME.
The problem of agnostic vs atheist would be so much simpler if people understood the definitions.
A/gnostic = KNOWLEDGE of existance (you either KNOW it exists/doesn't exist, making you gnostic, or you DON'T KNOW it exists/doesn't exist, making you agnostic).
A/theist = BELIEF in the existance of God (any).
So you can be an Agnostic Atheist (Which Dawkins, Hitchens, myself and pretty much all atheists are), Gnostic Atheist (never met one), Gnostic Theist, Agnostic Theist.
Bullocks. I don't "KNOW" that god doesn't exist, but I don't BELIEVE god exists. I'm an atheist agnostic. There are many people that are theist agnostics too. People that believe in god without knowing god exists.
Of course there are gnostics! There's many people that claim to "KNOW" god exists. Of course, they're wrong, as would a gnostic theist, but the term does exist and so do gnostic theists (Never met an atheist agnostic, but I'd imagine there are a few).
You realise the A at the start of atheist and agnostic are means "without", point being it's hard to have a "without knowledge" (agnostic) title without the "knowledge" (gnostic) to begin with.
IF you google --> atheist gnostic theist agnostic freethinker <-- then look at the first result (should be the freethinker website) there is quite a large write up of the different terms and what they mean.
@bersaba I prefer to not be labeled like I'm some fucking emo faggot, seriously why are labels so mandatory, I don't believe in god or any for that matter I'm a logical thinking scientist. Is it really necessary to label me as whatever your word for that is?
Hey you can call yourself what you want. But I've heard a lot of theists bitch about atheists and say "they believe in nothing" or "it takes a lot of faith to believe in no gods" and so on. If we (anyone) don't understand the definitions to begin with, how can we hope to understand the difference of opinion.
@Cocacoladdict9 To be consistent, you would have to take that position on Santa too. We might not technically know for sure, but we can make some pretty good probabilistic statements based on the available evidence, or lack there of.
@bishop8000 Well,your better off wondering for the rest of your life if their is or isn't a god instead of having a belief you will probably be wrong on.
Than again were all in a way atheist sense we don't believen most religion's with god(s).
@Cocacoladdict9 "Well,your better off wondering for the rest of your life if their is or isn't a god instead of having a belief you will probably be wrong on."
@Cocacoladdict9 This probably won't change your mind, but I want you to know this.
Suppose you're an athiest. If god isn't real, you already know the truth. If he is, you will find out when you go to hell. Thus you find the truth no matter what.
Now suppose you're a christian. If god is real, you already know the truth, but if he isn't, you will never find out. Thus you only have a 50% chance of ever finding out the truth.
" If he is, you will find out when you go to hell". Are you saying, the God is so mean, and he (the God) will send a person to hell, even thou the person was a very humane & loving person, just because the person does not believe in God? Wow!
Also, you are mixing the words God & Christian. That is one of the biggest problem in this world, where people cannot separate God and Religion.
Bertrand Russel's teapot just spoke to me, Prof. Dawkins... I am directed by the omni-absent, omni-impotent and omni-inscient teapot, to write a HOLY book ;-)
[14:23] And when the matter is decided, Satan will say, ‘Allah promised you a promise of truth, but I promised you and failed you. And I had no power over you except that I called you and you obeyed me. So blame me not, but blame your own selves. I cannot succour you nor can you succour me. I have already disclaimed your associating me with God. For the wrongdoers there shall, surely, be a grievous punishment.’
@77705000000000000000 You keep saying the same thing over and over again. I am not impressed. If you want an intelligent discussion, this is not the way to go about it.
@77705000000000000000 when you die there is nothing after that the idea of a god is crazy really think about it a magical being in the heavens looking down on you is ludicris i mean if a magican pulls a rabbit out of his hat do you really belive it came from another dimention or do you see it as mere illution god or allah in your case i more likly to be an ancient alian if anything but magical being he is not when you die u rot in the ground and thats it your brain just cant except that thought
in the Bible the prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) said what is impossible for man is possible for God. As a Muslim I have no problem accepting that passage in the Gospel.
how can anything come from something that is not withing the realm of space and time unless its something Supernatural? You must also have to understand we believe in God/Allah. We don't say we KNOW God exist. If we KNEW of His existence then this whole life wouldn't be a trial.
@DanMarik Please explain, in objective demonstrable terms, the difference between magic and the supernatural.
The word "supernatural" is almost always used in the dictionary definition of the word "magic". They're the same thing. It's a violation of physical laws.
@bishop8000 Ok... B=A but A does not always = B. While Magic can be defined as Supernatural, Supernatural cannot be defined as magic. Some scientist claim the existence of ghosts,spirits,apparitions, entities what ever have you. These phenomenons are not classified as magic but as supernatural. Meaning that they have some logical sense to them. I need a bigger word count from youtube if I am going to be able to fit in the entire explanation with examples.
@DanMarik "These phenomenons are not classified as magic but as supernatural. Meaning that they have some logical sense to them."
No. There is no logical sense to supernatural phenomenon. They're explanations that are not really explanations at all, they propose a mysterious unknowable agent that doesn't follow the rules of physics, and all without a shred of evidence.
@bishop8000 And if this Universe is Infinite means its supernatural. If it came from nothing it is also supernatural. God which is supernatural (meaning beyond natural laws) is possible.
the supernatural could never be fully comprehended. Once again. i Believe in God and I have every logical reason to. I never said I know God or seen Him with my two eyes.
What amazes me is how atheist are so eager to destroy any religious system. If you are so determined that the unseen can not exist then go convince somebody Santa Claus doesn't exist or something. Us believers and especially us Muslims are going to prevail regardless. We will always be the majority.
@kiddo500 Please elaborate on your "every logical reason" to believe in god. I am curious how that logic works.. because my logic leads me to the opposite conclusion.
Faith and Logic are two different things. You can have one without the other. I choose both. However in my effort to merge these two forces I have found many things that wont fit.
@bishop8000 To ask about God you cannot ask where or who or what. And your contradicting this video. In the first minute of the video i quote. "Science unlike religion doesn't pretend to know". We do not know everything of God or the big bang.We do not pretend to know however you seem to know. Please explain how something came out of nothing?
@DanMarik "To ask about God you cannot ask where or who or what." Oh yeah? Says who? You? I'm asking anyway. Any argument you make about the universe, I can also make about god. So where did god come from?
As for the rest, you clearly don't know much about science, because no scientists that I've ever met has held the position that the big bang came from nothing. We don't yet know where it came from. Ironically, you seem to know, or at least pretend to know.
@bishop8000 If I were to answer your first or second question it would mean that i am pretending to know something. So stop trying to invoke a contradiction to you post. As for you making a counter argument on god after I make one of the universe. Who said God and the Universe were on opposing sides? I never said i knew or even hinted at that notion. Here is a question. Is there space outside of space? If not then my conclusion of something out of nothing stands better than what you make it.
@DanMarik You don't know where god came from, and you won't presume to hazard a guess, yet I get a strong feeling that you believe in god. Now you expect me to answer complex questions involving speculative physics on the frontiers of knowledge to somehow justify my position that science and religion are contradictory? You've got your burden of proof WAY mixed up. Whether it wants to or not, religion makes objective scientific statements about the universe that have been found to be incorrect.
@DanMarik I don't need to talk to you about how something can come out of nothing because I never claimed that it did. Your statement regarding that was a ridiculous straw man. But besides that, it's not even pertinent to our original dispute. You claimed that faith and science do not contradict one another. But a universe that was created by a sentient intelligence, is a pretty different universe from one that either A) Always existed or B) came into being as a result of natural processes.
@bishop8000 Sorry I must have forgotten to respond to this. This will be a bit long so stay with me.
Alright let me come out and point out that many things in science contradict itself. Just like religion. I happen to believe something came from nothing because i believe in something supernatural. Something that exists outside of the physical law. If you claim that the universe if infinite then you also believe supernatural law. I believe God always existed, outside physical law.
@bishop8000 Part two. Your trying to make us rationalize (scientifically) god into something that can be understood. This is a paradox (a supernatural phenomenon) for god is infinite (another supernatural phenomenon) and cannot be judged by our current physical laws. God has no beginning or end. You cannot say the same thing about the universe or you will contradict yourself. (Cause and Effect)
Natural Law of Cause and Effect states that something cannot come from nothing. Meaning the universe must've been caused by something. What started the universe?
(from someone else I'm arguing with "The universe has no beginning it has always been there and always will be."
(My response) "Then this breaks the Natural Law of Cause and Effect. There the Universe is supernatural, proving that something supernatural may exist and that God is possible. The End "takes a bow"
What started god? God breaks the law of cause and effect. You make a special plea for god, that god doesn't require an explanation or a beginning. I'm not convinced by this. It's a logical fallacy = you fail.
@bishop8000 See this is where we split and neither of us will never win unless one of us sparks an epiphany in the others favor. I've accepted that something can exist outside the laws of physics. You cannot. I never said god doesn't require a explanation for a beginning because I know that he has no beginning. We humans cannot comprehend that.(we use less than 1% of our brains). Also on your comment on pt 1 you say I'm referring to magic. God is not magical he is supernatural.
How much do you think we use? I gurantee its not alot. Infact its minuscule compared to what we would be able to do if we had 100%. I haven't lost. Calling Checkmate when your losing doesn't mean you win.
@bishop8000 I never say that the universe came from a magic man in the sky. Im saying GOD (neither man or woman) started the universe. And exist indefinitely with the universe. Then if you don't know yet then why tell me I am wrong when I may have the Answer. Also I was using checkmate as an analogy not a way to make it seem I know what I am saying.
@bishop8000 Ok comparing my arguments to itself seems to me to be just lazy. I have more intellectual discussions to deal with. So I will take the lazy way out of this.
My answer or,what i consider as my truth, is God created the Universe and exists indefinite. (also my idea of the true god is that all the religions have a piece of the truth)
You have no answer at the moment. Once you have decided upon your answer please respond to me and then we can have an actually discussion.
@DanMarik My answer is that all of the objections you raised about breaking causality also applies to god. You make a special plea of course, but that's a logical fallacy. There's no evidence for god, yet you believe in god, that's delusion. There are still questions that science hasn't answered, but it will probably always be that way. Putting god in those gaps is a mistake born out of laziness and the human desire to look for a way to live forever which the god hypothesis gives you.
In any case we don't know yet. And some of think it's better to be honest about our present ignorance, than to make up an answer that catches our fancy.
@bishop8000 Then how can you deny me that god may exist. If you don't know the answer then how can you say that I am wrong? I may be right and I may be wrong however science itself proves existence the supernatural. If you break a Natural Law then it must be supernatural. The Law Cause and Effect breaks itself.
@DanMarik I've heard enough, and I'm not convinced. The matter and energy in the universe existing forever doesn't mean it's supernatural, and that's still a very likely possibility.
@qiankundanuoyi1 "There is no beginning and there will be no end. There is infinity. It's just there."
Cause and Effect is the natural law that states it is completely impossible of something to come from nothing. For the universe to be infinite it must be supernatural(because the law is broken). Also infinity can never be observed, so infinity cannot be under scientific law. So if infinity is your basis of fact, then why can i not believe in something supernatural that also breaks the laws?
Richard Dawkins is just as biased and subjective as any "organized religion." It's hard to take a person serious and objectively when they write a book that is name "the Blind Watchmaker." His agenda is obviously aimed to undermine any belief in a Creator-God just as much as a preacher's agenda is to win souls over. His problem is the fact that he thinks he is smarter than the rest of us.
finally someone tells a bit of truth! god does not explain anything it is simply another unanswerable question and another infinitive possibility like all other gods. i see the bible as merely a well-written code of ethics to govern man as they try to explain these unanswerable questions. im not saying i dont believe in god-im saying not believing in him is just as valid as not believing in buddha.
That would be silly.. Much more reasonable would be to hate to live a world full of people who do terrible things as a result of their belief in the tea pot. Thus, to shorten that lengthy explanation, one could say that they hate the tea pot, when in fact, it's the irrational beliefs and actions of others that they're actually talking about.
@Killerspoons423 yeah i do too and i agree with all that he says here which is why whenever an atheist friend of mine brings up my religion, i just say that i know and i operate on blind faith. im not hurting anyone with my belief and most ppl wouldnt know unless they asked me.
You're on a public forum space cadet. You're arguing with everyone who shows up on it. If an A-B conversation is what you're looking for, then click the envelope icon at upper right.
If you don't want to argue with me then why are you? See you do want to argue with me, you just don't want me to argue back. Get fucking used to it. Arguing with a real person isn't the same as the practice you've had arguing with your teddybear.
As for the obligatory insult, Let's see, Um.. OK I got it, drum roll please... I think you should change your name from "tybash" to "tyForPwningMe". OH Buuuuzing! :D
Keep acting like a real dick face, the reason your tiny head thinks I'm trying to insult you is because the moment your smelly fingers replied me with you gibberish nonsense I just lost it.
Fuck you and I will reply as much as possible { until I get tired of you then I would stop{
Don't pretend to have the moral high ground. As soon as you said "The logic of an asshole. Keep up the good work." YOU dragged this debate into the mud.
"the moment your smelly fingers replied me with you gibberish nonsense I just lost it."
I think the REAL reason you "lost it" is because what I said wasn't gibberish and you know it. There's no god, no afterlife, and when you die you'll never see any of your loved ones again. A part of you KNOWS that's true. Tell me how it makes you feel?!!
Jesus did not die on a cross. You are fully responsible for your own actions, they shall be delivered in equal actions to you. And, if your so called 'God' doesn't want us to sin, why did he invent free will? Please, answer that, you idiotic zealot.
Many people would be familiar with Penn Jillette, here is one of my favourite quotes from him. "When it comes to atheism there are 2 possibilities, if your God told you to kill your child and you said "No", then you are Atheist. If you said "Yes" then you are dangerous and stay away from me." It's a valid point, in response to previous posts "How can someone take a life, in the name of God, and say it's right?"
itsnolongeri... The Christian faith makes sense once you buy into it (kinda). Everything within the religion is sound logically after the belief in Jesus is known. However, to assume Jesus is god because you're told so, it reforms your life, or it makes you feel good is fallacy. The only thing that slightly leads to it from a logical veiw point is the size of the following, but that is an ad hominem,. Plus, many people believed in Thor years ago.True religion should not need to be told to u
Hey brendan .. Some of what you say i have to agree with, there is an old saying, "I would never have seen it if i hadnt believed it" kinda goes with what you said, I was an atheist, I started reading the Bible so i could redicule a few ppl better with evidence of all the hole's in it, but at the same time i had been searching for truth, though i never thought the bible would contain any, I knew it was true once i started reading it, i look through a Christian worldview now, what worldview u use
im a atheist, i beleive that a human can do anything, like i mean ANYTHING, we r our own gods, we can do and have anything we want or do because we choose the outcome, idk if that made sense, its hard to type wut i think, i have so much to say about this but its hard to say it logically, i dont even care for logic
this is my trolling account, im not trolling about this im strongly a god hater
wow seems like a pretty stupid argument to me, people belive in a creator for many reasons, one of them being that the universe has a beginning, one of them why is there anything rather than nothing, or the complexity of our enviroment, this vids argument fails recklessly.
You obviously havent looked into any of the arguements, your questions show the total onesidedness of your understanding, where did God come from, rofl
Most "holy war's" as such are actually against the doctrine's of the religions they use to cover their true motive's i.e greed. Also a non belief sometime's costs the deaths of millions, such as stalin, polpot , the kimer rouge. Im not sure about other religions, but Christianity doesnt ask for Blind faith, but a logical faith that fit's with the reality in which we find ourselve's.
On your first point, exactly. Do you honestly think the religious would kill if religion hadn't been the divider between them and their victims? On Stalin, and the rest of those guys, none of them killed for atheism, and even if they did, the number of people killed in the name of god vastly outnumber people killed by atheists. And yes, all religions require blind faith.
Actually stalin and lets say Mao killed more than all the religious wars in history, if my fact's are straight which im pretty sure they are, Also i would like to hear your definition of blind faith, just in case we have a different idea of the concept. cheers.
Oh really? any faith is blind faith? Do you understand that almost everything you do and everything you know is a logical response to faith? I would also say that atheism is and has always been a bane to humanity, thanx for awnsering my Q though, it's good to see where you stand in this area.
I think you know what I'm talking about. Faith in another human being or faith in yourself is very different than faith in a god. Faith in a god can be deadly, just take a look at radical islam or christianity. Even being moderately religious comes at a price; the price of intellectual slavery. But believe what you wish to believe, I won't judge you, just don't shove your beliefs down mine or anyone else's throats.
Radical Christianity? That would be fanatically following the teaching's of Christ? How could that be dangerous? Love the Lord your God, Love your neighbour as your self, love your enemy's, bless those who curse you, ect...
Atheisim has killed more ppl than religion ever has, check out the number's starlin mao and the kimir rouge murdered, and i can think of nothing better than being a slave of Jesus Christ, rather than a slave of my sin's and lust's. Anyway peace man, God bless.
Being sent to hell for unluckily worshipping a god different from the jealous Judeo-Christian god, being stoned to death because you didn't obey your parents, being sent to hell simply because you actively searched for Jesus/god but felt there wasn't enough proof, being sexually repressed, killing your child because you felt god told you to; everything mentioned here is in the bible, but people just simply ignore it. having a literal interpretation of the bible is undeniaby dangerous.
I dont ignore any of it, and i can understand how it may look to you, as i was once in your camp, but if you add one thing to your equation it all change's and your charge's against God fall down, Man is terribly wicked, not just a little bad, not mostly good but totally depraved evil mosterous, man compared with man can look pretty good, but we are not the standard, God is the standard, He is perfect,sinless,and holy, His judgment is perfectly just, All who sin deserve death,thats all of us
You correct about man's imperfection and fallibility. So certainly, the men who created the religions of the world are just as fallible as you and I, so I can't help but distrust religion and feel a negative predispostion against its false morals. I would like to believe in a perfect, loving god, but I simply can't.
Hey slash, if i believed men wrote the Bible without the inspiration of the Holyspirit i wouldnt believe it either, it would be totally untrustworthy, I started reading the Bible to disprove it, because i met some people who thought there was a God, after giving them a verbal earbashing, i thought id get more evidence on how many hole's where in the Bible so i could fix them up more next time i saw them, It changed my life completely, Now nothing is as precious, He is true.
all 'faith' by definition, is stupid. To have 'faith' you have to believe in something without evidence. And also, no one has ever died due to atheism. Also, radical christianity has led to thousands of deaths. ALSO, you know nothing about your own religion. The biblical religions are all very violent, oppressive and evil. The theists have tried to spin it into being peaceful and loving, while at the same time calling homosexuals evil. You shouldn't talk or lie about things you don't know about.
You are wrong, "faith by definition is stupid" you say, you use faith in all aspect's of your life, "no one ever died because of atheism" wow you just say whatever come's into your head dont ya? lol, starlin mao kimer rougge, not to mention the millions and million's of abortion's which have been made legal as part of the evolutionary train of thought, I know nothing about my religion? Grow up buddy, you sound like a troll, you should read my previous post's before writting me comment's, amazing
It's sad that you have such a dim view of humanity. Humanity is horrible, but humanity is also beautiful. There's goodness, kindness, generosity... And humanity is our only hope. I think we're doing the best that we could've been expected to do given how short a time our species has been here.
You ascribe all these traits of perfection to god.. But that proves that there's goodness in man. Because we invented god.
My view of humanity is both high and low, high because we are made in God's image, and low because of the devastating result's of sin, most ppl can see the sin in their bad deed's but cannot see the sin in their good deed's, our best deed's before perfect holyness are like filthy menstral cloth's, hard to understand without knowing God and His character, almost everyone will proclaim his own goodness, but the truth is we are wicked and fallen, we will be judged and without a saviour doomed.
How does killing something make something else OK? What sense does it make to think that god cannot forgive until there's been a murder of an innocent? Do you think looks down and says "OK you've killed that innocent guy (Jesus) so now I can forgive you for how I made you"? Two wrongs don't make a right. Yet that's what the entire "savior" religion of Christianity is based on.
Hey bis, i think youve got the gospel a little mixed up, i don t blame ya as alot of ppl who go to church havent got it sussed either, God is just and righteous, He must judge sin otherwise He wouldnt be just, Jesus died to take the punishment that righteousness require's for our sin, so that we could have imputed His righteous life to our account, that's why Christianity is so exclusive, if Jesus is not your saviour you will have to pay for your sin's, eternity in hell....
If your god is real. Then he is the most barbaric and unjust being that has ever lived. Worse than Hitler, worse than Stalin, Mao, or Caligula all put together.
Again I ask.. how does killing someone innocent make the crimes of someone else OK? Two wrongs don't make a right.
I already told you that what Jesus did by dieing on the cross was make a way for ppl to escape the righteous judgment of a Holy God, im not sure why you think God is bad as you have stated, though scripture does say that unless you are born again you are a hater of God which seems confirmed in your comments, but i am curious as to your reasoning.
On top of that, it simply doesn't make sense to me that Jesus' death makes the crimes of others any better. If person "A" killed a member of your family, and was sentenced to death, but innocent person "B" said they would die in person A's place, that would not be justice to you or to any legal system on our planet. This is the story that Christianity sells, with Jesus taking the place of all humans, but to me it's utterly ridiculous and immoral.
The problem with your example is there is no such person as 'innocent person B'. And neither you, nor I, nor anyone could die in the place of another and have that serve as justice.
If I was a good enough person (I'm not) to want to die for your sins, my sacrifice would not be acceptable.
Only the perfect, holy, blameless, 'lamb without defect' is qualified as a sacrifice. And since it couldn't ever happen now, that's why it doesn't line up with any legal system on the planet.
The whole idea of sacrificing a person for crimes they didn't commit is hideous. It's not fair to them, it in no way fixes the crimes of the actual criminal, and it in fact is simply adding one more crime to the pile. Perfect or not, there's no way that Jesus' death couldn't fixed anything. The whole notion is absurd. Leave the idea of atonement for "sin" in our ancient history where it belongs.
Hey bis, yea if an innocent person was forced it would be hideou's no doubt, what you need to know is Jesus is God, He is the one who made the law's and the punishment's, also very important for you to know is that all your sin's are primarily vertical, they are against God Himself, it is to God that you owe a debt, and it is up to Him they way it can be paid, make's sense to me.
jesus didnt die on the cross and he didnt pay your sins, so you are full responsible for your actions,your bad deeds will return to you as bad happenings so watch out what you sin or do
Hello agian mr. bishop8000. About your little description, not all are 'athiest' of most of the acient gods. And the next logical step isnt a denial of God. Its looking into science and acient religion. Looking to the future and the past. The acients were on to somthing with their beliefs, you cannot deny that.
AkumaxTamashii 4 months ago
@AkumaxTamashii Sure I can.
bishop8000 4 months ago
@bishop8000 if you can deny god, and science, what do you believe?
AkumaxTamashii 4 months ago
@AkumaxTamashii Why troll?
bishop8000 4 months ago
The teapot analogy misses the point. Biblical faith did not arise from ancient Hebrews sitting down and wondering where the universe came from, and thus came up with God as an answer. Biblical faith arose when the Hebrews experienced a saving God who delivered them from Egypt. It was only later that they came to believe this same God to be the creator God of the universe.
WSGAC 4 months ago
@WSGAC Just like all of the thousands of "holy" books that we have on hand, the Jewish one that you happen to believe in came from ancient superstitious men making up answers to questions that they couldn't answer.
bishop8000 4 months ago
@bishop8000 - Obviously you missed the point. But if you'll read all those other ancient holy books you will find that they simply try to answer the question, "Where did we come from?" or "Why does nature/universe operate the way it does?" In this way, science is much like paganism from of old. It tries to answer the same questions. Biblical authors did not begin with that as their starting point. The Exodus event has nothing to do with superstition. Low and behold, it happened!
WSGAC 4 months ago
Life. It is what is within you.
Good = God = GENESIS 2.7 = Luke 17.21 and MATTHEW 25.40. = REVELATION 22.21 and REVELATION 22.14
Not good = LUKE 22.3 = MATTHEW 25.41 soon to be Dead = No life. REVELATION 20.12 and REVELATION 22.15. Over.
variezn34gm 5 months ago
except that atheists rarely ever say 'there may not be a god' they state unequivically that a god does not exist. christians on the otherhand usually only express a faith that God exists. this is more philosophical than scientific. bottom line is that science will never prove God one way or the other. God will ever remain a probability, some believe in the negatvie probability while some others believe in the positive probability. the universe is likely more strange than we think...
cwross1976 6 months ago
@cwross1976 Every atheist that I've met acknowledge some degree of possibility that they're wrong. I've never heard a single atheist be unequivocally certain that there's no god.
bishop8000 6 months ago 6
@bishop8000 No atheist just dont believe in religion. it does not mean they discount a god could possibly exist, they just think religion is false, because they dont believe in a personal god or that the bible/torah/Quran are true at all, those religions have been proven false time and time again. The problem with religious nuts is that they bend the words or edit their bibles to keep up the lies of their books from modern day scrutiny. Religion is a lie. God is not yet proven.
SuperFifthwheel 6 months ago
@bishop8000 Because atheists aren't retarded, unlike religious folk. We aknowledge the possibility of anything because without disproof you cannot prove something doesn't exist for a fact. Which is why we think such a strong belief in god is so ridiculous and hilarious. Why believe in something so strongly that may not exist at all? It's like.. I'm going to believe in a waffle god because a group of men wrote a book about it and I BELIEVE IT'S FUCKING REAL THEREFORE IT IS, DON'T JUDGE ME.
Fellati0 2 weeks ago
(response to title) hell yea i am. and damn proud of it as well.
MellaRawr 6 months ago
True! :)
gurra1351 9 months ago
The problem of agnostic vs atheist would be so much simpler if people understood the definitions.
A/gnostic = KNOWLEDGE of existance (you either KNOW it exists/doesn't exist, making you gnostic, or you DON'T KNOW it exists/doesn't exist, making you agnostic).
A/theist = BELIEF in the existance of God (any).
So you can be an Agnostic Atheist (Which Dawkins, Hitchens, myself and pretty much all atheists are), Gnostic Atheist (never met one), Gnostic Theist, Agnostic Theist.
bersaba 1 year ago 3
@bersaba Exactly right.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bersaba No they are dependent
there is no belief without knowledge
there is no knowledge without belief
gogolplex74 4 months ago
@gogolplex74
Bullocks. I don't "KNOW" that god doesn't exist, but I don't BELIEVE god exists. I'm an atheist agnostic. There are many people that are theist agnostics too. People that believe in god without knowing god exists.
bersaba 4 months ago
@bersaba but there's no such a thing as "gnostic" since it doesn't make sense
everyone is an agnostic
gogolplex74 4 months ago
@gogolplex74
Of course there are gnostics! There's many people that claim to "KNOW" god exists. Of course, they're wrong, as would a gnostic theist, but the term does exist and so do gnostic theists (Never met an atheist agnostic, but I'd imagine there are a few).
You realise the A at the start of atheist and agnostic are means "without", point being it's hard to have a "without knowledge" (agnostic) title without the "knowledge" (gnostic) to begin with.
bersaba 4 months ago
@gogolplex74
IF you google --> atheist gnostic theist agnostic freethinker <-- then look at the first result (should be the freethinker website) there is quite a large write up of the different terms and what they mean.
bersaba 4 months ago
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bersaba 2 weeks ago
@bersaba I prefer to not be labeled like I'm some fucking emo faggot, seriously why are labels so mandatory, I don't believe in god or any for that matter I'm a logical thinking scientist. Is it really necessary to label me as whatever your word for that is?
Fellati0 2 weeks ago
@Fellati0
Hey you can call yourself what you want. But I've heard a lot of theists bitch about atheists and say "they believe in nothing" or "it takes a lot of faith to believe in no gods" and so on. If we (anyone) don't understand the definitions to begin with, how can we hope to understand the difference of opinion.
bersaba 2 weeks ago
@bersaba Hey you can label me as what you want, but I know what I am.
Fellati0 2 weeks ago
I used to be agnostic but I have decided my religion...
None.
No literally.
I don't believe or not believe.
I just ''don't know''.
I think we shouldn't say their is or isn't a god if we don't even know what's out there.
Cocacoladdict9 1 year ago
@Cocacoladdict9 To be consistent, you would have to take that position on Santa too. We might not technically know for sure, but we can make some pretty good probabilistic statements based on the available evidence, or lack there of.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000 Well,your better off wondering for the rest of your life if their is or isn't a god instead of having a belief you will probably be wrong on.
Than again were all in a way atheist sense we don't believen most religion's with god(s).
Their was actually a Saint Nicholas.
Cocacoladdict9 1 year ago
@Cocacoladdict9
Saint Nicholas /= Santa.
Santa flies with reindeer down chimneys and brings toys to all the good boys and girls in a single night.
Saint Nicholas threw gold coins into one person's window. Big Difference.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000 Lol yeah that is true. :P
Cocacoladdict9 1 year ago
@Cocacoladdict9 "Well,your better off wondering for the rest of your life if their is or isn't a god instead of having a belief you will probably be wrong on."
Google search "Atheist's Wager"
SimoonSam 1 year ago
@Cocacoladdict9 This probably won't change your mind, but I want you to know this.
Suppose you're an athiest. If god isn't real, you already know the truth. If he is, you will find out when you go to hell. Thus you find the truth no matter what.
Now suppose you're a christian. If god is real, you already know the truth, but if he isn't, you will never find out. Thus you only have a 50% chance of ever finding out the truth.
anticorncob6 11 months ago
@anticorncob6
" If he is, you will find out when you go to hell". Are you saying, the God is so mean, and he (the God) will send a person to hell, even thou the person was a very humane & loving person, just because the person does not believe in God? Wow!
Also, you are mixing the words God & Christian. That is one of the biggest problem in this world, where people cannot separate God and Religion.
"God created man and man created religion"
cbizsoft 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I used to be agnostic but I have decided my religion...
None.
No literally.
I don't believe or not believe.
I just ''don't know''.
I think we shouldn't say their is or isn't a god if we don't even know what's out there.
Cocacoladdict9 1 year ago
@Cocacoladdict9 Look agnostic specifically means I don't know so technically you are still agnostic.
anticorncob6 8 months ago
Comment removed
Cocacoladdict9 1 year ago
brilliant!
duzyureks 1 year ago
Ok...
Religion is a source of FAITH NOT KNOWLEDGE.
Science is a source of KNOWLEDGE NOT FAITH.
People stop trying to disprove each other.
DanMarik 1 year ago
@DanMarik Wrong. Both religion and science make incompatible truth claims.
bishop8000 1 year ago
I AM THE ALMIGHTY TEA POT SHORT SPOUT!!!
showershoo 1 year ago
Bertrand Russel's teapot just spoke to me, Prof. Dawkins... I am directed by the omni-absent, omni-impotent and omni-inscient teapot, to write a HOLY book ;-)
besursangeet 1 year ago
I have faith in the almighty teapot.
Swasome10 1 year ago
In The Name of Allah
[14:23] And when the matter is decided, Satan will say, ‘Allah promised you a promise of truth, but I promised you and failed you. And I had no power over you except that I called you and you obeyed me. So blame me not, but blame your own selves. I cannot succour you nor can you succour me. I have already disclaimed your associating me with God. For the wrongdoers there shall, surely, be a grievous punishment.’
77705000000000000000 1 year ago
Allah is the First and the last there is nothing before him
He is the one Who Created EveryThing .
O people save ur self before it's to late
77705000000000000000 1 year ago
@77705000000000000000 You are mistaken. There's no god.
bishop8000 1 year ago 2
@77705000000000000000 How do you know? For every book that confirms your claim, I can show 100 other books which claim that God is something else.
rpk58 1 year ago
@77705000000000000000 You keep saying the same thing over and over again. I am not impressed. If you want an intelligent discussion, this is not the way to go about it.
rpk58 1 year ago
@77705000000000000000 explain me how allah came to be and maybe i believe you. but aslong as you cant explain it i dont believe you.
marko9900 1 year ago
@77705000000000000000 very mistaken
plowingzero 1 year ago
@77705000000000000000
ELIJAH Y U R NOT GIVING NEW MOBILE NUMBER
ELIJAH, YOU TOLD ME,
YOU REALY LOVING ME
AND YOU WILL MARRY ME, IF I CONVERTED TO ISLAM.
BUT DID YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER ALLOW THIS MARRIAGE ?
Bluemountainify 1 year ago
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Bluemountainify 1 year ago
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Bluemountainify 1 year ago
@77705000000000000000 when you die there is nothing after that the idea of a god is crazy really think about it a magical being in the heavens looking down on you is ludicris i mean if a magican pulls a rabbit out of his hat do you really belive it came from another dimention or do you see it as mere illution god or allah in your case i more likly to be an ancient alian if anything but magical being he is not when you die u rot in the ground and thats it your brain just cant except that thought
masterman3178 1 year ago
@77705000000000000000 you realize allah was copied from the judeo-christain god, jus slightly more violent
144mtl441 1 year ago
No people there is a creator for everything and for us
there is no god but allah .
77705000000000000000 1 year ago
@77705000000000000000 Then who created allah?
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000
how can something else exist BEFORE God if God created time and space?
kiddo500 1 year ago
@kiddo500 Where was god when he did that?
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000
beyond space and time.
in the Bible the prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) said what is impossible for man is possible for God. As a Muslim I have no problem accepting that passage in the Gospel.
kiddo500 1 year ago
@kiddo500 Then why not save a step and say that the big bang came from beyond space and time?
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000
how can anything come from something that is not withing the realm of space and time unless its something Supernatural? You must also have to understand we believe in God/Allah. We don't say we KNOW God exist. If we KNEW of His existence then this whole life wouldn't be a trial.
kiddo500 1 year ago
@kiddo500 Magic isn't an explanation.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000
and I also know we can go back and forth but I think its pointless. So I am basically just going to wish the best for you in life.
farewell.
kiddo500 1 year ago
@bishop8000 He said Supernatural not Magical.
Supernatural is more like pseudoscience rather than magical.
DanMarik 1 year ago
@DanMarik Please explain, in objective demonstrable terms, the difference between magic and the supernatural.
The word "supernatural" is almost always used in the dictionary definition of the word "magic". They're the same thing. It's a violation of physical laws.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000 Ok... B=A but A does not always = B. While Magic can be defined as Supernatural, Supernatural cannot be defined as magic. Some scientist claim the existence of ghosts,spirits,apparitions, entities what ever have you. These phenomenons are not classified as magic but as supernatural. Meaning that they have some logical sense to them. I need a bigger word count from youtube if I am going to be able to fit in the entire explanation with examples.
DanMarik 1 year ago
@DanMarik "These phenomenons are not classified as magic but as supernatural. Meaning that they have some logical sense to them."
No. There is no logical sense to supernatural phenomenon. They're explanations that are not really explanations at all, they propose a mysterious unknowable agent that doesn't follow the rules of physics, and all without a shred of evidence.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000 There are things we have not discovered yet, or say, discovered but not completely understood
qiankundanuoyi1 1 year ago
@bishop8000 And if this Universe is Infinite means its supernatural. If it came from nothing it is also supernatural. God which is supernatural (meaning beyond natural laws) is possible.
DanMarik 1 year ago
@DanMarik "if this Universe is Infinite means its supernatural"
No.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@DanMarik Yes it does.
Infinity proves the Natural law of Cause and Effect. Making it supernatural.
DanMarik 1 year ago
@kiddo500
the supernatural could never be fully comprehended. Once again. i Believe in God and I have every logical reason to. I never said I know God or seen Him with my two eyes.
What amazes me is how atheist are so eager to destroy any religious system. If you are so determined that the unseen can not exist then go convince somebody Santa Claus doesn't exist or something. Us believers and especially us Muslims are going to prevail regardless. We will always be the majority.
kiddo500 1 year ago
@kiddo500 Please elaborate on your "every logical reason" to believe in god. I am curious how that logic works.. because my logic leads me to the opposite conclusion.
x1plus1x 1 year ago
@x1plus1x
Faith and Logic are two different things. You can have one without the other. I choose both. However in my effort to merge these two forces I have found many things that wont fit.
DanMarik 1 year ago
@bishop8000 To ask about God you cannot ask where or who or what. And your contradicting this video. In the first minute of the video i quote. "Science unlike religion doesn't pretend to know". We do not know everything of God or the big bang.We do not pretend to know however you seem to know. Please explain how something came out of nothing?
DanMarik 1 year ago
@DanMarik "To ask about God you cannot ask where or who or what." Oh yeah? Says who? You? I'm asking anyway. Any argument you make about the universe, I can also make about god. So where did god come from?
As for the rest, you clearly don't know much about science, because no scientists that I've ever met has held the position that the big bang came from nothing. We don't yet know where it came from. Ironically, you seem to know, or at least pretend to know.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000 If I were to answer your first or second question it would mean that i am pretending to know something. So stop trying to invoke a contradiction to you post. As for you making a counter argument on god after I make one of the universe. Who said God and the Universe were on opposing sides? I never said i knew or even hinted at that notion. Here is a question. Is there space outside of space? If not then my conclusion of something out of nothing stands better than what you make it.
DanMarik 1 year ago
@DanMarik You don't know where god came from, and you won't presume to hazard a guess, yet I get a strong feeling that you believe in god. Now you expect me to answer complex questions involving speculative physics on the frontiers of knowledge to somehow justify my position that science and religion are contradictory? You've got your burden of proof WAY mixed up. Whether it wants to or not, religion makes objective scientific statements about the universe that have been found to be incorrect.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@DanMarik I don't need to talk to you about how something can come out of nothing because I never claimed that it did. Your statement regarding that was a ridiculous straw man. But besides that, it's not even pertinent to our original dispute. You claimed that faith and science do not contradict one another. But a universe that was created by a sentient intelligence, is a pretty different universe from one that either A) Always existed or B) came into being as a result of natural processes.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000 Sorry I must have forgotten to respond to this. This will be a bit long so stay with me.
Alright let me come out and point out that many things in science contradict itself. Just like religion. I happen to believe something came from nothing because i believe in something supernatural. Something that exists outside of the physical law. If you claim that the universe if infinite then you also believe supernatural law. I believe God always existed, outside physical law.
DanMarik 1 year ago
@bishop8000 Part two. Your trying to make us rationalize (scientifically) god into something that can be understood. This is a paradox (a supernatural phenomenon) for god is infinite (another supernatural phenomenon) and cannot be judged by our current physical laws. God has no beginning or end. You cannot say the same thing about the universe or you will contradict yourself. (Cause and Effect)
DanMarik 1 year ago
@DanMarik Your argument amounts to believing the words of 3000 year old goat hearers because what they claim is beyond our human understanding. No.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000 The stories of deities go way way back even before Sumer. Goats weren't domesticated at that time.
DanMarik 1 year ago
@bishop8000 Part 3
Natural Law of Cause and Effect states that something cannot come from nothing. Meaning the universe must've been caused by something. What started the universe?
(from someone else I'm arguing with "The universe has no beginning it has always been there and always will be."
(My response) "Then this breaks the Natural Law of Cause and Effect. There the Universe is supernatural, proving that something supernatural may exist and that God is possible. The End "takes a bow"
DanMarik 1 year ago
@DanMarik "What started the universe?"
What started god? God breaks the law of cause and effect. You make a special plea for god, that god doesn't require an explanation or a beginning. I'm not convinced by this. It's a logical fallacy = you fail.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000 See this is where we split and neither of us will never win unless one of us sparks an epiphany in the others favor. I've accepted that something can exist outside the laws of physics. You cannot. I never said god doesn't require a explanation for a beginning because I know that he has no beginning. We humans cannot comprehend that.(we use less than 1% of our brains). Also on your comment on pt 1 you say I'm referring to magic. God is not magical he is supernatural.
DanMarik 1 year ago
@DanMarik You've already lost.
"we use less than 1% of our brains"
That's not true.
"God is not magical he is supernatural. "
Tomato / tomAto
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000 Lmao
How much do you think we use? I gurantee its not alot. Infact its minuscule compared to what we would be able to do if we had 100%. I haven't lost. Calling Checkmate when your losing doesn't mean you win.
DanMarik 1 year ago
@DanMarik "Calling Checkmate when your losing doesn't mean you win. "
You say the universe came from a magic man in the sky that was invented by ancient superstitious men. I say we don't know yet. Checkmate.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000 I never say that the universe came from a magic man in the sky. Im saying GOD (neither man or woman) started the universe. And exist indefinitely with the universe. Then if you don't know yet then why tell me I am wrong when I may have the Answer. Also I was using checkmate as an analogy not a way to make it seem I know what I am saying.
DanMarik 1 year ago
@DanMarik "I never say that the universe came from a magic man in the sky. Im saying GOD (neither man or woman) started the universe."
That's the same thing.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000 Ok comparing my arguments to itself seems to me to be just lazy. I have more intellectual discussions to deal with. So I will take the lazy way out of this.
My answer or,what i consider as my truth, is God created the Universe and exists indefinite. (also my idea of the true god is that all the religions have a piece of the truth)
You have no answer at the moment. Once you have decided upon your answer please respond to me and then we can have an actually discussion.
DanMarik 1 year ago
@DanMarik My answer is that all of the objections you raised about breaking causality also applies to god. You make a special plea of course, but that's a logical fallacy. There's no evidence for god, yet you believe in god, that's delusion. There are still questions that science hasn't answered, but it will probably always be that way. Putting god in those gaps is a mistake born out of laziness and the human desire to look for a way to live forever which the god hypothesis gives you.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000 Ok to settle this I want to ask you a question. Its going to be A or B, no C.
Which do you hold to be true?
A. The Universe is Infinite.
B. The Universe has a Beginning and [[MAY!]] have an end.
DanMarik 1 year ago
@DanMarik That's a false dichotomy fallacy.
In any case we don't know yet. And some of think it's better to be honest about our present ignorance, than to make up an answer that catches our fancy.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000 Then how can you deny me that god may exist. If you don't know the answer then how can you say that I am wrong? I may be right and I may be wrong however science itself proves existence the supernatural. If you break a Natural Law then it must be supernatural. The Law Cause and Effect breaks itself.
DanMarik 1 year ago
@DanMarik We don't know what the answer is. But we know that magic sky daddies is probably not it.
"The Law Cause and Effect breaks itself. "
No it doesn't.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@bishop8000 Please state the Law of Cause and Effect and I will explain how the Universe IS supernatural.
DanMarik 1 year ago
@DanMarik I've heard enough, and I'm not convinced. The matter and energy in the universe existing forever doesn't mean it's supernatural, and that's still a very likely possibility.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@DanMarik There is no beginning and there will be no end. There is infinity. It's just there.
qiankundanuoyi1 1 year ago
@qiankundanuoyi1 "There is no beginning and there will be no end. There is infinity. It's just there."
Cause and Effect is the natural law that states it is completely impossible of something to come from nothing. For the universe to be infinite it must be supernatural(because the law is broken). Also infinity can never be observed, so infinity cannot be under scientific law. So if infinity is your basis of fact, then why can i not believe in something supernatural that also breaks the laws?
DanMarik 1 year ago
@77705000000000000000 and your proof?
144mtl441 1 year ago
google Doe's Account, mindblowing.
Yellowwatts 1 year ago
Richard Dawkins is just as biased and subjective as any "organized religion." It's hard to take a person serious and objectively when they write a book that is name "the Blind Watchmaker." His agenda is obviously aimed to undermine any belief in a Creator-God just as much as a preacher's agenda is to win souls over. His problem is the fact that he thinks he is smarter than the rest of us.
ragzy02 1 year ago
@ragzy02 His agenda is indeed to undermine false beliefs. And yes, he is smarter than the rest of us.
bishop8000 1 year ago
@ragzy02 Richard Dawkin's as a person doesn't matter... what matters are his ideas.
JuryDutySummons 1 year ago
@ragzy02 In your statements you conflate the concepts of "agenda, or goal" and "bias, or subjectivity".
It is possible to be objective and have a goal. It is also possible to be subjective and have a goal.
Therefore, to say that someone has a goal is not also to say that that person is subjective, because a goal can exist in the absence of subjectivity.
Richard Dawkins has the agenda of combating subjectivity and bias by means of the scientific method, which is the epitome of objectivity.
happystatemachine 1 year ago
If you take a look 100 years back in time, nearly every person on the globe were superstitious, and an atheist were not even heard of.
Today, thanks to technology,science and common sence people are finally starting to wake up from their illusions.
100 years in the future, people will be even more intelligent than what we are now.
And where there is common sence and reason; there is no god.
Christianity will gradually disappear, which is a blessing for mankind!
kanistor22 1 year ago
at 1:50, is that Conan the Barbarian?
Voodoofreak35 1 year ago
@Voodoofreak35 It's Thor. Norse god of thunder.
bishop8000 1 year ago
finally someone tells a bit of truth! god does not explain anything it is simply another unanswerable question and another infinitive possibility like all other gods. i see the bible as merely a well-written code of ethics to govern man as they try to explain these unanswerable questions. im not saying i dont believe in god-im saying not believing in him is just as valid as not believing in buddha.
nametag3 1 year ago
What if you hated the Tea Pot that you are so sure doesn't exist?
fudgedogbannana 1 year ago
That would be silly.. Much more reasonable would be to hate to live a world full of people who do terrible things as a result of their belief in the tea pot. Thus, to shorten that lengthy explanation, one could say that they hate the tea pot, when in fact, it's the irrational beliefs and actions of others that they're actually talking about.
bishop8000 1 year ago
The Tea-pot is not a lie!!!!
Nightmeare 1 year ago
I like that last line.
Killerspoons423 1 year ago
@Killerspoons423 yeah i do too and i agree with all that he says here which is why whenever an atheist friend of mine brings up my religion, i just say that i know and i operate on blind faith. im not hurting anyone with my belief and most ppl wouldnt know unless they asked me.
alhagaghad 1 year ago
religion, is going down is going down is going down.
We have the technology, bigger IQ and resources to give alternative which is more reliable then 2000 year old historically disproved book.
lifemetall 1 year ago
I AM NOT AN ATHEIST
tybash 1 year ago
Do you believe in Poseidon?
bishop8000 1 year ago
I don't live in Poseidon time.
tybash 1 year ago
Then you're an atheist with respect to Poseidon. Welcome to being an atheist.
The fact is that we're all atheists with respect to 99.999% of all gods. Some of us just go one god further.
bishop8000 1 year ago
The logic of an asshole. Keep up the good work.
tybash 1 year ago
Insults... The response of a failed and desperate argument. Cheers.
atheistembassy 1 year ago
@atheistembassy I was arguing with you?
tybash 1 year ago
You're on a public forum space cadet. You're arguing with everyone who shows up on it. If an A-B conversation is what you're looking for, then click the envelope icon at upper right.
atheistembassy 1 year ago
Well shush it, I don't want to argue with you failed bastard.
tybash 1 year ago
If you don't want to argue with me then why are you? See you do want to argue with me, you just don't want me to argue back. Get fucking used to it. Arguing with a real person isn't the same as the practice you've had arguing with your teddybear.
As for the obligatory insult, Let's see, Um.. OK I got it, drum roll please... I think you should change your name from "tybash" to "tyForPwningMe". OH Buuuuzing! :D
atheistembassy 1 year ago
Keep acting like a real dick face, the reason your tiny head thinks I'm trying to insult you is because the moment your smelly fingers replied me with you gibberish nonsense I just lost it.
Fuck you and I will reply as much as possible { until I get tired of you then I would stop{
So go ahead deep hole.
tybash 1 year ago
Don't pretend to have the moral high ground. As soon as you said "The logic of an asshole. Keep up the good work." YOU dragged this debate into the mud.
"the moment your smelly fingers replied me with you gibberish nonsense I just lost it."
I think the REAL reason you "lost it" is because what I said wasn't gibberish and you know it. There's no god, no afterlife, and when you die you'll never see any of your loved ones again. A part of you KNOWS that's true. Tell me how it makes you feel?!!
atheistembassy 1 year ago
bastard, I can swear cause I'm no saint.
tybash 1 year ago
"the only christian died on the cross"- friedrich nietzsche
cyborg0013 2 years ago
I TRUELY FEEL BAD FOR ATHEIST...u guys r kinda hopeless
canigeta7 2 years ago
Hopeless? How so?
worldsworstjukebox 2 years ago
At least we have the truth while we're alive.
bishop8000 2 years ago
lmaooo ahahhahaha sorry im honestly laughing soo hard
canigeta7 2 years ago
Laugh as much as you want, it doesn't make you right.
bishop8000 2 years ago
Jesus did not die on a cross. You are fully responsible for your own actions, they shall be delivered in equal actions to you. And, if your so called 'God' doesn't want us to sin, why did he invent free will? Please, answer that, you idiotic zealot.
TheM2CarbineRifleman 2 years ago
Many people would be familiar with Penn Jillette, here is one of my favourite quotes from him. "When it comes to atheism there are 2 possibilities, if your God told you to kill your child and you said "No", then you are Atheist. If you said "Yes" then you are dangerous and stay away from me." It's a valid point, in response to previous posts "How can someone take a life, in the name of God, and say it's right?"
SantasLittleDemon 2 years ago
...and after all this we'll find out that it's a coffeepot orbiting the Sun.
Amesang 2 years ago
itsnolongeri... The Christian faith makes sense once you buy into it (kinda). Everything within the religion is sound logically after the belief in Jesus is known. However, to assume Jesus is god because you're told so, it reforms your life, or it makes you feel good is fallacy. The only thing that slightly leads to it from a logical veiw point is the size of the following, but that is an ad hominem,. Plus, many people believed in Thor years ago.True religion should not need to be told to u
brendankelly92 2 years ago
Hey brendan .. Some of what you say i have to agree with, there is an old saying, "I would never have seen it if i hadnt believed it" kinda goes with what you said, I was an atheist, I started reading the Bible so i could redicule a few ppl better with evidence of all the hole's in it, but at the same time i had been searching for truth, though i never thought the bible would contain any, I knew it was true once i started reading it, i look through a Christian worldview now, what worldview u use
itsnolongeri 2 years ago
im a atheist, i beleive that a human can do anything, like i mean ANYTHING, we r our own gods, we can do and have anything we want or do because we choose the outcome, idk if that made sense, its hard to type wut i think, i have so much to say about this but its hard to say it logically, i dont even care for logic
this is my trolling account, im not trolling about this im strongly a god hater
Dontcheckthischannel 2 years ago
It's really hard to take ANYONE seriously that uses text lingo in their statements. Sorry. Just think about what you're doing.
Sarahlynnland 2 years ago
wow seems like a pretty stupid argument to me, people belive in a creator for many reasons, one of them being that the universe has a beginning, one of them why is there anything rather than nothing, or the complexity of our enviroment, this vids argument fails recklessly.
itsnolongeri 2 years ago
If the befinning of the universe was god, where did god come from?
Why is there a god, and not no god?
The complexity of our environment was solved 150 years ago by evolution.
God doesn't get you any closer to an answer in any of the situations you provided. Epic fail.
bishop8000 2 years ago
You obviously havent looked into any of the arguements, your questions show the total onesidedness of your understanding, where did God come from, rofl
itsnolongeri 2 years ago
Yes, but sometimes blind faith in that creator is the cause of the deaths of millions of people.
slashrules88 2 years ago
Most "holy war's" as such are actually against the doctrine's of the religions they use to cover their true motive's i.e greed. Also a non belief sometime's costs the deaths of millions, such as stalin, polpot , the kimer rouge. Im not sure about other religions, but Christianity doesnt ask for Blind faith, but a logical faith that fit's with the reality in which we find ourselve's.
itsnolongeri 2 years ago
On your first point, exactly. Do you honestly think the religious would kill if religion hadn't been the divider between them and their victims? On Stalin, and the rest of those guys, none of them killed for atheism, and even if they did, the number of people killed in the name of god vastly outnumber people killed by atheists. And yes, all religions require blind faith.
slashrules88 2 years ago
Actually stalin and lets say Mao killed more than all the religious wars in history, if my fact's are straight which im pretty sure they are, Also i would like to hear your definition of blind faith, just in case we have a different idea of the concept. cheers.
itsnolongeri 2 years ago
By blind faith, I mean any faith in general. Faith has and always will be a bane to humanity.
slashrules88 2 years ago
Oh really? any faith is blind faith? Do you understand that almost everything you do and everything you know is a logical response to faith? I would also say that atheism is and has always been a bane to humanity, thanx for awnsering my Q though, it's good to see where you stand in this area.
itsnolongeri 2 years ago
I think you know what I'm talking about. Faith in another human being or faith in yourself is very different than faith in a god. Faith in a god can be deadly, just take a look at radical islam or christianity. Even being moderately religious comes at a price; the price of intellectual slavery. But believe what you wish to believe, I won't judge you, just don't shove your beliefs down mine or anyone else's throats.
slashrules88 2 years ago
Radical Christianity? That would be fanatically following the teaching's of Christ? How could that be dangerous? Love the Lord your God, Love your neighbour as your self, love your enemy's, bless those who curse you, ect...
Atheisim has killed more ppl than religion ever has, check out the number's starlin mao and the kimir rouge murdered, and i can think of nothing better than being a slave of Jesus Christ, rather than a slave of my sin's and lust's. Anyway peace man, God bless.
itsnolongeri 2 years ago
Being sent to hell for unluckily worshipping a god different from the jealous Judeo-Christian god, being stoned to death because you didn't obey your parents, being sent to hell simply because you actively searched for Jesus/god but felt there wasn't enough proof, being sexually repressed, killing your child because you felt god told you to; everything mentioned here is in the bible, but people just simply ignore it. having a literal interpretation of the bible is undeniaby dangerous.
slashrules88 2 years ago
I dont ignore any of it, and i can understand how it may look to you, as i was once in your camp, but if you add one thing to your equation it all change's and your charge's against God fall down, Man is terribly wicked, not just a little bad, not mostly good but totally depraved evil mosterous, man compared with man can look pretty good, but we are not the standard, God is the standard, He is perfect,sinless,and holy, His judgment is perfectly just, All who sin deserve death,thats all of us
itsnolongeri 2 years ago
You correct about man's imperfection and fallibility. So certainly, the men who created the religions of the world are just as fallible as you and I, so I can't help but distrust religion and feel a negative predispostion against its false morals. I would like to believe in a perfect, loving god, but I simply can't.
slashrules88 2 years ago
Hey slash, if i believed men wrote the Bible without the inspiration of the Holyspirit i wouldnt believe it either, it would be totally untrustworthy, I started reading the Bible to disprove it, because i met some people who thought there was a God, after giving them a verbal earbashing, i thought id get more evidence on how many hole's where in the Bible so i could fix them up more next time i saw them, It changed my life completely, Now nothing is as precious, He is true.
itsnolongeri 2 years ago
all 'faith' by definition, is stupid. To have 'faith' you have to believe in something without evidence. And also, no one has ever died due to atheism. Also, radical christianity has led to thousands of deaths. ALSO, you know nothing about your own religion. The biblical religions are all very violent, oppressive and evil. The theists have tried to spin it into being peaceful and loving, while at the same time calling homosexuals evil. You shouldn't talk or lie about things you don't know about.
Sav3TheWorld 2 years ago
You are wrong, "faith by definition is stupid" you say, you use faith in all aspect's of your life, "no one ever died because of atheism" wow you just say whatever come's into your head dont ya? lol, starlin mao kimer rougge, not to mention the millions and million's of abortion's which have been made legal as part of the evolutionary train of thought, I know nothing about my religion? Grow up buddy, you sound like a troll, you should read my previous post's before writting me comment's, amazing
itsnolongeri 2 years ago
It's sad that you have such a dim view of humanity. Humanity is horrible, but humanity is also beautiful. There's goodness, kindness, generosity... And humanity is our only hope. I think we're doing the best that we could've been expected to do given how short a time our species has been here.
You ascribe all these traits of perfection to god.. But that proves that there's goodness in man. Because we invented god.
bishop8000 2 years ago
My view of humanity is both high and low, high because we are made in God's image, and low because of the devastating result's of sin, most ppl can see the sin in their bad deed's but cannot see the sin in their good deed's, our best deed's before perfect holyness are like filthy menstral cloth's, hard to understand without knowing God and His character, almost everyone will proclaim his own goodness, but the truth is we are wicked and fallen, we will be judged and without a saviour doomed.
itsnolongeri 2 years ago
How does killing something make something else OK? What sense does it make to think that god cannot forgive until there's been a murder of an innocent? Do you think looks down and says "OK you've killed that innocent guy (Jesus) so now I can forgive you for how I made you"? Two wrongs don't make a right. Yet that's what the entire "savior" religion of Christianity is based on.
bishop8000 2 years ago
Hey bis, i think youve got the gospel a little mixed up, i don t blame ya as alot of ppl who go to church havent got it sussed either, God is just and righteous, He must judge sin otherwise He wouldnt be just, Jesus died to take the punishment that righteousness require's for our sin, so that we could have imputed His righteous life to our account, that's why Christianity is so exclusive, if Jesus is not your saviour you will have to pay for your sin's, eternity in hell....
itsnolongeri 2 years ago
If your god is real. Then he is the most barbaric and unjust being that has ever lived. Worse than Hitler, worse than Stalin, Mao, or Caligula all put together.
Again I ask.. how does killing someone innocent make the crimes of someone else OK? Two wrongs don't make a right.
bishop8000 2 years ago
I already told you that what Jesus did by dieing on the cross was make a way for ppl to escape the righteous judgment of a Holy God, im not sure why you think God is bad as you have stated, though scripture does say that unless you are born again you are a hater of God which seems confirmed in your comments, but i am curious as to your reasoning.
itsnolongeri 2 years ago
On top of that, it simply doesn't make sense to me that Jesus' death makes the crimes of others any better. If person "A" killed a member of your family, and was sentenced to death, but innocent person "B" said they would die in person A's place, that would not be justice to you or to any legal system on our planet. This is the story that Christianity sells, with Jesus taking the place of all humans, but to me it's utterly ridiculous and immoral.
bishop8000 2 years ago
The problem with your example is there is no such person as 'innocent person B'. And neither you, nor I, nor anyone could die in the place of another and have that serve as justice.
If I was a good enough person (I'm not) to want to die for your sins, my sacrifice would not be acceptable.
Only the perfect, holy, blameless, 'lamb without defect' is qualified as a sacrifice. And since it couldn't ever happen now, that's why it doesn't line up with any legal system on the planet.
orpydna 2 years ago
The whole idea of sacrificing a person for crimes they didn't commit is hideous. It's not fair to them, it in no way fixes the crimes of the actual criminal, and it in fact is simply adding one more crime to the pile. Perfect or not, there's no way that Jesus' death couldn't fixed anything. The whole notion is absurd. Leave the idea of atonement for "sin" in our ancient history where it belongs.
bishop8000 2 years ago
Hey bis, yea if an innocent person was forced it would be hideou's no doubt, what you need to know is Jesus is God, He is the one who made the law's and the punishment's, also very important for you to know is that all your sin's are primarily vertical, they are against God Himself, it is to God that you owe a debt, and it is up to Him they way it can be paid, make's sense to me.
itsnolongeri 2 years ago
"make's sense to me. "
Then you're welcome to it.
bishop8000 2 years ago
jesus didnt die on the cross and he didnt pay your sins, so you are full responsible for your actions,your bad deeds will return to you as bad happenings so watch out what you sin or do
drmanyuka 2 years ago