I tend to agree w/ Richard below -- This movie has some of the worst edits, cues, character development, choreography & dialogue, w/ scores that come-off as random. Main characters have litlle more depth & authenticity than supporting characters. Plot is shallow, predictable & over-dependant on circumstance-driven opportunism as cheesy action-adventure 'crime' genre flics often are. It's barely viewable, vain & pretentious. There's NOTHING here to warrant a 2nd, closer look. Not a rewarding exp.
Compare the ridiculous rib scene in this film with the superb "How am I funny?" scene in GOODFELLAS, at all levels. The acting is true-to-life; it REFLECTS life. The scene itself rings true, if not actual. Most of use have experienced moments LIKE that, a sudden change in mood, etc. The context is superior (initiation, for one theme) as is character (we feel we really know Pesci & Liotta). Now take the rib scene here: total bull; no purpose. Characters arbitrarily written to elicit laughs, etc.
@Nigelxman Listen, Einstein, if I HADN'T watched it you would have argued from the reverse perspective, i.e. how can I judge I movie I don't see. So heads you win, tails I lose, right. And learn respect when posting, young man: children get their bottoms smacked. You think it's cool calling everyone who disagrees w/you an asshole until you start sipping your meals through a straw. And that's what sometimes happens. Wake up. You're talking to a gentleman but that may not always be >
@Richard40171 You're a funny guy Richard. :-) A real internet tough guy you are. You want so desperately to appear to be an intellectual, don't you mate? So let me get this right...You watched this film for the first time ever on YouTube? lol Priceless. Oh and I really didn't need to know that you get off on spanking children. Please keep your sick Pedo fantasies to yourself mmmk Sparky? Can you do that Sport?
@Nigelxman Son, this is my last post. "Tough guy"? I don't go around using words like a-hole hiding behind Netonymity. I would NEVER smack the bottom of a child. But there are some adults whose bottoms need to be smacked. You got the message; you just don't like the message. You're desperate, son. You're throwing everything hoping to hit a target: Go to college. If you already have, ask for a refund.
@Nigelxman >the case. Watch your language in general. What's this with "f**king hell" for that matter? Grow up. THINK. I treated the poster of this film with respect. I thanked him for posting it; I wanted to see this film & millions of others Anything wrong with intelligent dialogue with my culture? Is there a problem with that? I think the film is mindless, not the poster who may have his own take on the film & I'd love to hear his take on the film, IN DIALOGUE, not with cuss words
Not that this film merits analysis, but to give one example: what's going to stop Doc from refusing to be part of the caper once he's out of prison? Another example: why the hell would a guy whose face is broadcast all over insist on ordering food at the car stop & be recognized when the obvious thing is to have his girl, whose face is NOT broadcast, to order while he slinks in the shadows? This is not meant a criticism of the poster, by the way. I always wanted to c this film. Thanks.
@Richard40171 you seem like the kind of person who straightens the pictures hanging on the neighbors house when visiting.this is one hell of a great film,the acting,the editing,the screen play,superior direction by pekinpah.they rarely make them like this.so sorry u didnt like it,maby we can add some flying saucers and california sliding into the sea.go back 2 your processed food,&chemical diet sodas.your dumbing down is complete.
@SHARKREEF2011 You're partly right. It is "hell." If you think this is great acting you've got some serious thinking to do about acting. Point out a single moment of great acting here. At BEST it's serviceable and, of course, Mc has charisma, or the film would not have been made. Mc doesn't have to do anything but pout. As for your alleged wit, my patience w/the Star Wars movies is limited to the crawling credits; as soon as I c video game screens I'm out. Shark, where's ur bite?
Comes close to being as mindless as any commercial movie. How many shotgun blasts does it take to make a movie? How much silly clichEd dialogue ("You think of everything, don't you?"), how many editing longeuers, esp. in the lead shots, how many cornball characters (the Struthers-Rudy scenes are the nadir of the commercial cinema, a desperate try to add color to a mindless film)? Jones' mindless stinger cues fit the movie perfectly: how can one write themes to a movie w/o character or theme?
@SHARKREEF2011 What u don't understand is that casting is more than 50% of the film & if the film WERE cast as u suggest the film would have been credible. No legit actor would accept the script as it was written; there would be numerous rewrites pressured by each member of the case: "The girl is not believable." "I'm not going to speak a dumb line like that." "C'mon, Sam, give me some cred, some sympathy. I'm not going to throw rib bones in the car like that."
@SHARKREEF2011 AS for these character ringing "true," then anything rings true. What the h*ll is true about some moron throwing ribs around in a car? What's true about him suddenly saying he doesn't want to play the game? What's "true" about some mindless chick hooking with someone who is gravely if not critically injured or yelling "Where's Rudy?" about a man she met yesterday or so or about her screaming hysterically? The entire scene is contrived for college kids, modeled on >
@SHARKREEF2011 another vastly overrated film, BONNY AND CLYDE (obviously a model for this one). But even that film, vastly overrated as it is, had far more class: Guffey's cinematography, the scripting and acting were far superior; the editing was superb, not only in the obvious death scene; the music cues were superb (Flatt & Scruggs). Compare any element with this film & c the difference. That car scene was ludicrous and any prod shd have cut it out but they ran out of ideas.
I'm not sure how this movie became a commercial success. Any caper movie is superior to this. The music score by Jones ruins all the images; there's no logic to his scoring, just a series of "stingers" presumably thinking he's adding punch to the images when he's taking away what punch those images, in context (i.e. the caper) have. Editing is awful; seems like no one told the editor when to cut. A classic Hollywood flick would have made a point in 3 quick cuts whereas this movie needs 60.
@SHARKREEF2011 You sound like a reasonable person, throwing words around like "idiot." I'm sure Peckinpah would be happy having you defend his film like this. But you'll be happy to know that I am now sitting in the smallest room in my house and have a hard copy of your comment in front of me. In a short while it will be behind me.
@Richard40171 great music,and exactly at the needed times,jone created a tense masterpiece.and the editing,by one of the greatest in hollywood,the story just flows smoothly with building tension,not like those choppy classics made for first graders that make their point in 3 quick cuts like the dragnet tv series,too boring and for children or low iq mtv people like richard who fidget at any scene longer than 5 seconds.
@SHARKREEF2011 I just listened to some Korngold scores (ANOTHER DAWN, ESCAPE ME NEVER) and Jones doesn't even belong in the same film discussion group as Korngold. (He's a good pop arranger, however.) Jones is at the level of Elfman, who seems like he makes up the music as he goes along. Jones of course is a real pro, but he just scored stingers w/o rhyme or reason; the holdup had esp. annoying cues. BTW I HATE rapid cutting with a passion, so u got that wrong too. My fav. film >
@SHARKREEF2011 film of all time may well be ROPE because of its long takes. But a good editor doesn't linger on a scene to give the scene something it just doesn't have. Presumably by those long takes where nobody says anything in a tritely written "love" scene we're supposed to give the characters interiority (real emotions/thoughts) they don't have. I was referring to the beginning, which went on interminably to "tell" us he's in prison; a 40s film would have done that in 5 secs
@Richard40171 I think the movie is good entertainment. I read some of the back-and-forth between you and some of the other people here. I'm not going to dismiss this film because there are some seriously unrealistic scenes. The rib-tossing scene is much like other scenes in Peckinpah films. Something playful begins, but you know it's going to end badly. It creates a certain tension for the audience.
@ktoimil The only sequence that really works is the train sequence. Very well filmed (handheld camera), edited; even the stingers (shots of Ali waiting at the train) work. Framing is good too, as when the truck lift blocks our view of Mc as he gets on the train. Writing is terrible. No concept of the Ali/Mc relationship; it's added on. For a film like th is to work there must be a bond btn the 2. Your defense of the rib scene isn't strong just because it's similar to other Peck scenes! >
@Richard40171 To me, Peckinpah is like the novelist Graham Greene (who wrote the screenplay to the Carol Reed film "The Third Man"). Like Graham, Sam creates Frankenstein characters. AKA Unrealistic monsters. But it doesn't make them any less frightening to the audience.
@ktoimil I don't think Peck creates characters but images, aka MTV. Pesci is frightening: he's real. Nothing real in this film. The clichE about crossing into Mexico and discovering love is tagged on. Besides, why root for killers, worse, losers? The opening sequence is rather banal IMO: flash edits, prison routine: clichE has been overdone; and the film doesn't develop that motif, rather a hatred of police (the gunning down of police cars). Instead film should have shown police brutality.
@Richard40171 Also, I have to defend the opening scene in the film, which is pure Peckinpah. I'm not crazy about this director, but I have to respect his uniqueness in films like "Straw Dogs" and "The Wild Bunch". I don't know how anyone could capture the maddening nature of prison in a few mere seconds. Peckinpah's use of sound is brilliant; once again, you know something bad is going to happen, and you find yourself at the edge of the seat waiting for McQueen to explode.
@ktoimil Surely you know prison routine is a clichE in films! It's been done to death and there's no reason to show it again. Besides, it bears no relationship to rest of film! The real subtext is Mc's hatred of police (as in his gunning down police cars), not prison routine! But I respect your response. What can I say? Neither of us can prove our response is the correct one. We can only illustrate our response, as we both have. Time will tell!
@Richard40171 Have to agree with you on the score, I didn't think it added a thing to the movie, though I didn't find it very distracting. I found it reminiscent of the score in "Death Wish", though I atleast felt that it set a mood in that film
@adorbat pow!bang! poof!!fuck,shit ,piss,cunt,poop!pow!ratatat a tat!boom!..kaaaaboooom...
sorry its not one of your stupid MTV9BRAINwashed)quick cut garbage,moview of today with fake actors,stupid cgi effect,(impossible batman efffects)this is a REAL movie,requires a brain,with real actors.but a gimp like u CANNOT understand.
1 movie u CAN understand,is IDIOCRACY.u will certainly identify with the walmart greeter.
god ww3 can't come soon enough to get rid of all the TARDZOMBIES....
Anyone know that richie40171 guy, find him a hobby, it's an emergency... No need to reply, i've got something else to do with my time.
rbus56 4 days ago
doesnt Brooke Shields resemble a young Ali McGraw?
bobbyeph 5 days ago
classic
brmoogma 2 weeks ago
I tend to agree w/ Richard below -- This movie has some of the worst edits, cues, character development, choreography & dialogue, w/ scores that come-off as random. Main characters have litlle more depth & authenticity than supporting characters. Plot is shallow, predictable & over-dependant on circumstance-driven opportunism as cheesy action-adventure 'crime' genre flics often are. It's barely viewable, vain & pretentious. There's NOTHING here to warrant a 2nd, closer look. Not a rewarding exp.
starmanskye 2 weeks ago
This is a very good, well-made, thought-provoking movie from an era when really good films were made in Hollywood. It is worth seeing it.
MrShybull 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Don't think you'd want to jump in a river these days in a three piece suit....
I-Pod, mobile phone & credit cards would all get wrecked. Those were the days.
Thanks Bronsonmania for posting this film, good stuff.
ErnestDimple 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
ErnestDimple 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
ErnestDimple 3 weeks ago
Steve Mcqueen the besT(Enjoyed iT)thank you so much//
No1Kakumeix 3 weeks ago
Thanks for posting this - it's a real treat to see this modern classic again after so many years.
bored1ca 4 weeks ago
Compare the ridiculous rib scene in this film with the superb "How am I funny?" scene in GOODFELLAS, at all levels. The acting is true-to-life; it REFLECTS life. The scene itself rings true, if not actual. Most of use have experienced moments LIKE that, a sudden change in mood, etc. The context is superior (initiation, for one theme) as is character (we feel we really know Pesci & Liotta). Now take the rib scene here: total bull; no purpose. Characters arbitrarily written to elicit laughs, etc.
Richard40171 4 weeks ago
@Richard40171 If you dislike this film. why the fucking hell are you here watching it? Oh wait, you're just an internet asshole. :-) Gotcha.
Nigelxman 3 weeks ago
@Nigelxman Listen, Einstein, if I HADN'T watched it you would have argued from the reverse perspective, i.e. how can I judge I movie I don't see. So heads you win, tails I lose, right. And learn respect when posting, young man: children get their bottoms smacked. You think it's cool calling everyone who disagrees w/you an asshole until you start sipping your meals through a straw. And that's what sometimes happens. Wake up. You're talking to a gentleman but that may not always be >
Richard40171 3 weeks ago
@Richard40171 You're a funny guy Richard. :-) A real internet tough guy you are. You want so desperately to appear to be an intellectual, don't you mate? So let me get this right...You watched this film for the first time ever on YouTube? lol Priceless. Oh and I really didn't need to know that you get off on spanking children. Please keep your sick Pedo fantasies to yourself mmmk Sparky? Can you do that Sport?
Nigelxman 3 weeks ago
@Nigelxman Son, this is my last post. "Tough guy"? I don't go around using words like a-hole hiding behind Netonymity. I would NEVER smack the bottom of a child. But there are some adults whose bottoms need to be smacked. You got the message; you just don't like the message. You're desperate, son. You're throwing everything hoping to hit a target: Go to college. If you already have, ask for a refund.
Richard40171 3 weeks ago
@Nigelxman >the case. Watch your language in general. What's this with "f**king hell" for that matter? Grow up. THINK. I treated the poster of this film with respect. I thanked him for posting it; I wanted to see this film & millions of others Anything wrong with intelligent dialogue with my culture? Is there a problem with that? I think the film is mindless, not the poster who may have his own take on the film & I'd love to hear his take on the film, IN DIALOGUE, not with cuss words
Richard40171 3 weeks ago
Not that this film merits analysis, but to give one example: what's going to stop Doc from refusing to be part of the caper once he's out of prison? Another example: why the hell would a guy whose face is broadcast all over insist on ordering food at the car stop & be recognized when the obvious thing is to have his girl, whose face is NOT broadcast, to order while he slinks in the shadows? This is not meant a criticism of the poster, by the way. I always wanted to c this film. Thanks.
Richard40171 4 weeks ago
@Richard40171 you seem like the kind of person who straightens the pictures hanging on the neighbors house when visiting.this is one hell of a great film,the acting,the editing,the screen play,superior direction by pekinpah.they rarely make them like this.so sorry u didnt like it,maby we can add some flying saucers and california sliding into the sea.go back 2 your processed food,&chemical diet sodas.your dumbing down is complete.
SHARKREEF2011 4 weeks ago
@SHARKREEF2011 You're partly right. It is "hell." If you think this is great acting you've got some serious thinking to do about acting. Point out a single moment of great acting here. At BEST it's serviceable and, of course, Mc has charisma, or the film would not have been made. Mc doesn't have to do anything but pout. As for your alleged wit, my patience w/the Star Wars movies is limited to the crawling credits; as soon as I c video game screens I'm out. Shark, where's ur bite?
Richard40171 4 weeks ago
Comes close to being as mindless as any commercial movie. How many shotgun blasts does it take to make a movie? How much silly clichEd dialogue ("You think of everything, don't you?"), how many editing longeuers, esp. in the lead shots, how many cornball characters (the Struthers-Rudy scenes are the nadir of the commercial cinema, a desperate try to add color to a mindless film)? Jones' mindless stinger cues fit the movie perfectly: how can one write themes to a movie w/o character or theme?
Richard40171 4 weeks ago
@Richard40171your comment is so stupid i cannot waste my valuable time to respond.
i'll take a shit instead.
SHARKREEF2011 4 weeks ago
@Richard40171 u need to go to jail.these characters ring true.lots of "outlaws" are characters.
would u prefer richardburton as rudy,orating the classics?
how about sir lawrence olivier as doc macoy?
maby we could add audrey hepburn as docs girl,and they could all sing,the movie,kinda like my fair lady..
dont be such a crumpet munching poofter
SHARKREEF2011 4 weeks ago
@SHARKREEF2011 What u don't understand is that casting is more than 50% of the film & if the film WERE cast as u suggest the film would have been credible. No legit actor would accept the script as it was written; there would be numerous rewrites pressured by each member of the case: "The girl is not believable." "I'm not going to speak a dumb line like that." "C'mon, Sam, give me some cred, some sympathy. I'm not going to throw rib bones in the car like that."
Richard40171 4 weeks ago
@SHARKREEF2011 AS for these character ringing "true," then anything rings true. What the h*ll is true about some moron throwing ribs around in a car? What's true about him suddenly saying he doesn't want to play the game? What's "true" about some mindless chick hooking with someone who is gravely if not critically injured or yelling "Where's Rudy?" about a man she met yesterday or so or about her screaming hysterically? The entire scene is contrived for college kids, modeled on >
Richard40171 4 weeks ago
@SHARKREEF2011 another vastly overrated film, BONNY AND CLYDE (obviously a model for this one). But even that film, vastly overrated as it is, had far more class: Guffey's cinematography, the scripting and acting were far superior; the editing was superb, not only in the obvious death scene; the music cues were superb (Flatt & Scruggs). Compare any element with this film & c the difference. That car scene was ludicrous and any prod shd have cut it out but they ran out of ideas.
Richard40171 4 weeks ago
I'm not sure how this movie became a commercial success. Any caper movie is superior to this. The music score by Jones ruins all the images; there's no logic to his scoring, just a series of "stingers" presumably thinking he's adding punch to the images when he's taking away what punch those images, in context (i.e. the caper) have. Editing is awful; seems like no one told the editor when to cut. A classic Hollywood flick would have made a point in 3 quick cuts whereas this movie needs 60.
Richard40171 4 weeks ago
@Richard40171 another idiot.
SHARKREEF2011 4 weeks ago
@SHARKREEF2011 You sound like a reasonable person, throwing words around like "idiot." I'm sure Peckinpah would be happy having you defend his film like this. But you'll be happy to know that I am now sitting in the smallest room in my house and have a hard copy of your comment in front of me. In a short while it will be behind me.
Richard40171 4 weeks ago
@Richard40171 great music,and exactly at the needed times,jone created a tense masterpiece.and the editing,by one of the greatest in hollywood,the story just flows smoothly with building tension,not like those choppy classics made for first graders that make their point in 3 quick cuts like the dragnet tv series,too boring and for children or low iq mtv people like richard who fidget at any scene longer than 5 seconds.
SHARKREEF2011 4 weeks ago
@SHARKREEF2011 I just listened to some Korngold scores (ANOTHER DAWN, ESCAPE ME NEVER) and Jones doesn't even belong in the same film discussion group as Korngold. (He's a good pop arranger, however.) Jones is at the level of Elfman, who seems like he makes up the music as he goes along. Jones of course is a real pro, but he just scored stingers w/o rhyme or reason; the holdup had esp. annoying cues. BTW I HATE rapid cutting with a passion, so u got that wrong too. My fav. film >
Richard40171 4 weeks ago
@SHARKREEF2011 film of all time may well be ROPE because of its long takes. But a good editor doesn't linger on a scene to give the scene something it just doesn't have. Presumably by those long takes where nobody says anything in a tritely written "love" scene we're supposed to give the characters interiority (real emotions/thoughts) they don't have. I was referring to the beginning, which went on interminably to "tell" us he's in prison; a 40s film would have done that in 5 secs
Richard40171 4 weeks ago
@Richard40171 I think the movie is good entertainment. I read some of the back-and-forth between you and some of the other people here. I'm not going to dismiss this film because there are some seriously unrealistic scenes. The rib-tossing scene is much like other scenes in Peckinpah films. Something playful begins, but you know it's going to end badly. It creates a certain tension for the audience.
ktoimil 1 day ago
@ktoimil The only sequence that really works is the train sequence. Very well filmed (handheld camera), edited; even the stingers (shots of Ali waiting at the train) work. Framing is good too, as when the truck lift blocks our view of Mc as he gets on the train. Writing is terrible. No concept of the Ali/Mc relationship; it's added on. For a film like th is to work there must be a bond btn the 2. Your defense of the rib scene isn't strong just because it's similar to other Peck scenes! >
Richard40171 1 day ago
@Richard40171 To me, Peckinpah is like the novelist Graham Greene (who wrote the screenplay to the Carol Reed film "The Third Man"). Like Graham, Sam creates Frankenstein characters. AKA Unrealistic monsters. But it doesn't make them any less frightening to the audience.
ktoimil 1 day ago
@ktoimil I don't think Peck creates characters but images, aka MTV. Pesci is frightening: he's real. Nothing real in this film. The clichE about crossing into Mexico and discovering love is tagged on. Besides, why root for killers, worse, losers? The opening sequence is rather banal IMO: flash edits, prison routine: clichE has been overdone; and the film doesn't develop that motif, rather a hatred of police (the gunning down of police cars). Instead film should have shown police brutality.
Richard40171 1 day ago
@Richard40171 Also, I have to defend the opening scene in the film, which is pure Peckinpah. I'm not crazy about this director, but I have to respect his uniqueness in films like "Straw Dogs" and "The Wild Bunch". I don't know how anyone could capture the maddening nature of prison in a few mere seconds. Peckinpah's use of sound is brilliant; once again, you know something bad is going to happen, and you find yourself at the edge of the seat waiting for McQueen to explode.
ktoimil 1 day ago
@ktoimil Surely you know prison routine is a clichE in films! It's been done to death and there's no reason to show it again. Besides, it bears no relationship to rest of film! The real subtext is Mc's hatred of police (as in his gunning down police cars), not prison routine! But I respect your response. What can I say? Neither of us can prove our response is the correct one. We can only illustrate our response, as we both have. Time will tell!
Richard40171 1 day ago
@Richard40171 Have to agree with you on the score, I didn't think it added a thing to the movie, though I didn't find it very distracting. I found it reminiscent of the score in "Death Wish", though I atleast felt that it set a mood in that film
ktoimil 1 day ago
very poor concept and below mediority thinking bullshit movie!!!!
adorbat 1 month ago
@adorbat pow!bang! poof!!fuck,shit ,piss,cunt,poop!pow!ratatat a tat!boom!..kaaaaboooom...
sorry its not one of your stupid MTV9BRAINwashed)quick cut garbage,moview of today with fake actors,stupid cgi effect,(impossible batman efffects)this is a REAL movie,requires a brain,with real actors.but a gimp like u CANNOT understand.
1 movie u CAN understand,is IDIOCRACY.u will certainly identify with the walmart greeter.
god ww3 can't come soon enough to get rid of all the TARDZOMBIES....
SHARKREEF2011 1 month ago
Enjoyed it
Mcqueen is real handy with firearms. He must have handled that shotgun many times to look so comfortable with it.
He prob. could have been a bank robber, back in the day
Thanks for the movie, its on my list of hundreds to watch in my retirement time.
ashton77 1 month ago
Not a fucking single dislike: good.
rickbandana 1 month ago
Sally Struthers punched in the face. lol
mpjgbx 1 month ago
Ah, Steve McQueen in the original and the best version.
MsUntitleme 1 month ago