The God of the Bible is the most ridiculous arrogant, prideful, murderous self-loathing, suicidal psychopath I have ever heard of! "O I love my creation so much that"... I condemned my only son (through osmosis) to be brutally butchered so I could convince myself to create a loophole to save mankind from the contradictory rules I gave them. Now, instead of creating an everlasting world peace, I will now set humanity toward a pointless apocalyptic “end of the world” …because it would be cool.
Some argue that God allows pain and suffering for people to appreciate goodness. Except that seems more like a balance principle to me, and is also contradictory to the nature of God and the promise of Heaven, because in Heaven there is said to be eternal joy and an end to all pain and sin. So then the balance is gone. Unless we assume that because Christians will have "perfect souls" capable of experiencing only joy and happiness, according to biblical implications. Then again, worshipping a se
Tell me about it! Those Pharisees & scribes worked really hard to find a reason to kill Jesus. They were some seriously angry people.
As for Jesus at the Temple, he was simply driving out what wasn't to be there in the first place. It did not say anything about Jesus hitting a person or more with the whip does it? Nope. That would certainly be out of character for Jesus.
Do u know what an ox goad is?If they use that 2 move an animal what is a home-made whip in comparison 2 that?
No sinful human could do what the perfect man Jesus did while on earth. He, unlike us, was a completely sinless man in every way. So he didn't just get put to death, he was murdered as a completely innocent man.
Matt.27:18 For (Pilate) was aware that out of envy they had handed him over. 19 Moreover, while he was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent out to him, saying: “Have nothing to do with that righteous man(Jesus), for I suffered a lot today in a dream because of him.”
So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.
@LenaZeal Sorry. On the contrary it is the theists that have their heads stuck way up their backsides. The atheists don't. You don't want to listen to reason.
@1000years1day Umm, then god is a fucking asshole then. If I made beings, that I loved, and some evil force was messing up there lives, I would get rid of it. Period. I'm morally superior to your god. To bad I'm not in charge of all this, huh?
Judged by God! Let me be clear that I refuse to be judged by others than my fellow humans beings, imperfect as they may be.And I will NOT blame my actions good and bad on satan, god or what not. I got one life to live, one shot to get it right. And I'll try to make the best of it.
we are not robots to be controlled by God we are individual souls with free will. our actions here on earth will be judge. remember this short stay on this physical world is a test to prove our will, faith and love so we can enter the kingdom of God
@IlC4RL0SIl Really?And why is this test different for everyone?Why does one test last 5 minutes and one 110 years?Why Is one test filled with suffering and sorrow and one test filled with happiness?
The "ripple effect" argument is nonsense. It doesn't matter if you think God can bring good out of something like child rape; the point is that God should be able to bring about the same good WITHOUT the child's getting raped!
And the response from YHWHisSoveriegn to people on this video has only proven the point that no benevolent, all powerful, all knowing deity exists. Also, why would anyone willingly worship an entity which delights in endless torture, condones slavery, and would purposefully set us up in a world full of suffering? I can hardly consider a person who worships such an entity mentally or spiritually healthy.
I have noticed atheists who have replied to my comments on here. I NEVER read them, I just go to their channel and check them out. And I have notice that they either
have one, or two, or maybe three friends and no suscribers. Or they have one, or two
subscribers and one friend, or they have no friends and very little subscibers. Now, what does that tell you?? If I reply to their ingnorant comments, it will make me lose my Christianity. God bless everyone on this page. :)
At 07:00 (Muslims in heaven) Muslims are told that in heaven they can have all the sex they want, if they like women there will be 72 virgins for each one, if they like men they can have sex with men.
Make your own decision as to what a young Muslim homosexual who if exposed will be tortured will do to have sex, yes he will die for the faith so he can go to paradise asap.
"its not about creating good in a humanistic sense, its about bringing people into a loving relationship with JC"
Just imagine that there's this guy called Mr Spanky, he allows bad crap to happen to you, and allows bad crap to happen to you so you can enter into a friendship with him so he can then stop the suffering. The guy's a psycho!
Child rape must be OK to Christians and Muslims, for example, as Mary was impregnated against her will and Aisha was forced into marriage at the age of 9 to Mohamed.
I guess being members of these religions is to participate in a mass coverup/smoothing over of their revered figures' crimes.
Ephesians 6:12 For we do NOT wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers , against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. This is the reason for all the sufferings, crimes, and such. It's NOT us, is the devil, the prince of darkness! Bad things just don't happen. There's a reason for it all. It's the signs of Jesus second coming back to earth. READ THE BIBLE!!!
@LizzielovesJC I really hate to say this, because I don't know you, but shut the fuck up. Bible verses have almost no literal truth in them. 'Spiritual hosts'? 'Prince of darkness'? I reject your claims of such ridiculous atrocities.
@LizzielovesJC We have, it's why we're atheists. Btw if you actually read your book, you'll find that God is the evil character and Satan is a hero fighting against a tyrant.
Okay how could a child's rape lead to a better thing? Well what if by being raped the child's mind became screwed up and he grows up to murder somebody who would have been the next Hitler, and that's the only way got could stop the murderer... ah never mind, there is no good reason for it and if there was a all good, all knowing and all powerful god it wouldn't happen.
Where will you go to when you die? Have you ever told lies, stolen, used God's name in vain, or looked at someone with lust? If yes, then you are a lying, theiving, blasphemous, adulterer at heart. When you die & stand before God you'll be guilty of breaking His law. The bible says you'll end up in Hell! So God sent God His Son Jesus to die for your sins, & He rose from the dead on the third day. If you'll believe the Gospel(Jesus died for your sins & was resurrected) you'll be saved!
the point is that we would not have free will if there was no such thing as evil. we were made in the image of God, a mind with free will, therefore we have to have the free will to make choices.
there is also no objective way to determine evil without a transcendence.
the comment that he could see no good coming out of child rape is rather ignorant. of course child rape is a bad thing, but many victims of child rape, as well as other traumas, use that event to do a lot of good, look at Oprah
@xnorthcarolinax There have been child rapes that do not result in a lot of good. If there is a single child rape that did not result in good, your argument is null.
What is free will? Is it based of of our character and environment? God gave us our character and environment. Is it random actions? We cannot hold someone morally responsible for random acts, and god purportedly holds us responsible for our actions.
@theclinger its not about creating good in a humanistic sense, its about bringing people into a loving relationship with JC, so maybe if there were a single instance that did not help anyone at all come into one of these relationships then the argument would be null, but thats just wild speculation, and you would have to prove that they never could help someone in the future. as for the free will, i would just refer you to the calvanistic-armenian debate, and look at the monalistic view
You say that if God is all good and all powerful, then this contradicts the fact that evil is in the world. In logic, if we assume q, then there must be a not q. Otherwise q would be meaningless. If everything is the color blue, then it would be meaningless to call anything blue. The notion of color would also be meaningless. Since God is good, it is of logical necessity that not good must exist. Otherwise the notion of good would be meaningless. That which is not good can simply be called evil.
@YHWHisSovereign There must be the potential for something to be something other than blue. There doesn't actually have to be red. Additionally, even if you where right, a single speck of red would create something that is not blue. If it is possible that there was one less hurricane, rape, murder... than you are wrong. Why not just bad actions? Why does there need to be extreme pain and suffering?
You atheists are so stupid. You complain about evil in the world, but on what basis do you distinguish between good and evil? How can you say that rape is wrong? Isn't this how the human race got started according to you? What difference does it make if a person rapes a 20 year old or a 5 year old? You have nothing to define morality.
@theclinger Continuing with the same argument, if all was blue, and red only existed in potentiality and not in reality, no one would know it. We would still not be able to define blue if no other color existed in reality. No one would know that there was a potential of red if red did not exist.
Now as far as ignoring the problem of evil, what my argument was doing is showing that it did not exist. There is no problem. It is something that Atheists have created to attack Christianity.
"1. God does not love everyone. God has predestined some to damnation."
Then he is not all good, and there is not a problem. You are one of 1% of christians that would say that. Why worship him then? If he is not all good, are you just submitting to his wrath?
@theclinger Why would the fact that He predestines some to damnation not make Him good? What standard are you using to deduce that? What is good and what is evil according to your world view? Is good and evil a social construct that people have devised just to make society work? What bearing would that have on God? Who is the ultimate authority on good and evil? If there is no God, then who decides?
On what basis does the creature say to the creator, "Why did you make me like this"?
This argument that God allows someone to rape a child because God values free will disgusts me. First off, it's completely facile in that it equates action with will. God doesn't just not change someone's desires, he allows them to act upon them. What it essentially says is that God values the rapist's freedom to attack a child more than the child's right not to be raped. Any society that followed that kind of thinking would collapse overnight.
The host completely destroyed the author of that letter.... Though im not against Christianity, i too always thought that a lot of christian arguments are weird logics. They always put all their bets on afterlife. I know a lot of christians who literally told me that they do not care what they can leave behind for their children or having accomplishments because success in THIS life does not mean a thing. do you realize what that mindset can do to your integrity?
@catnip302 So then, you are doing exactly what you do when you read the bible: picking and choosing the information that suits your beliefs and ignoring the stuff that you don't want to hear or acknowledge.
@DrZodas I dont read bible... :P sorry. i just think its a basic responsibility to live life to the fullest and do as many good things with yoru life as possible. There are some good ideas that i heard from people that i later found out that theyre actually from the bible. bible does have some pretty good stuff. but i just cant agree with the idea of doing something in your current life for a reward in your afterlife.... because thats the exact same reason for the terrorist attack in Sep 11th.
"I would rather see God do this, I would rather God be this way, I would rather look at the problem like this, THAT isn't helping how I see the problem, THIS doesn't work when I view the world my way..."
I never receive any intellectual insights from this show, all I get out of this show is a good laugh or two at some fuming frustrated atheists (with chips on their shoulders) who feel violated by other people's beliefs.
The whole notion of human suffering being used by God as a means to achieving some greater end sort of runs up against the whole idea of -- *Means not justifying Ends.*
Maybe I could simply kidnap a few thousand children and experiment on them and vivisect them in order to find a cure to childhood cancer? Would that be okay, since the end result would be the end of childhood cancer? Absolutely not.
It's wrong to use people for things against their will.
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God allows man to wallow in his sin that he has created because man has freewill. And must learn that sin has implecations, also suffering can draw people close to God.When you weigh up the pain you may suffer in this world against the eternal joy he has promised you in heaven the pain here is nothing. God sees this universe from start to finish, so how can you understand what the plan is or why suffering is allowed. You simply do not understand and instead of rejecting God you should trust him.
So god (wich i don't believe exists more than Santa) created the world, knowing beforehand that some of his creatures, yet unborn, were condemned to eternal torture... I mean, he already knew, while creating the world, that Adam and Eve grand-grand-children will be condemn for an error he knew human will do, tempted by a creature he created to, the snake... That is utterly absurd...
@Acrimonator I like to imagine the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve standing at the tree talking about whether or not to eat the apple, with god standing on the other side, snickering. I mean, Christianity has already said it, "God is everywhere."
Oh, and which denomination of Christianity would give me that pass to heaven? And why Christianity, why not Islam? Or any other religion?
And what about all those billions and billions of people God KNEW would not find the one true path, they don't get to heaven, just to suffer for all eternity. How is it exactly that I should trust a God that puts up such a scheme and doesn't leave a single solid hint as to what religion to choose???
Then there is the suffering of animals, what about them??
Kill every person who molests a child, no exceptions. Kill all their offspring and every child they molested, then sterilize the offender's siblings and their offspring.
God obviously doesn't give a rat's ass about children. You want to see change, it's going to have to be evolutionary.
That's assuming that the propensity to rape children is genetic. i mean, we often find whole families of child rapists, right? Whole families of pedophiles?
If it were that obvious, and that easy, I'm sure we would have started killing these people millenia ago.
The one thing that pisses me off on this planet is arguments! I am sick of humans using there intelligence to piss others off...fucking hell. I wish I was a lower species, humans are assholes.
"To explain truth to him who loves it not is to give more plentiful material for misinterpretation."
- George McDonald
The atheists will never understand the Word of God. The spiritual eyes are remained shut, and only their physical eyes are opened to that of the physical. And to add to it. Raising the issue of evil contradicts their own worldview. Without God, there is no objective moral law. They're borrowing from God to debunk God.
"until you can come up with a circumstance where child rape is the best solution then you're wrong and im right" that is missing the point of that argument (the second one), the point is you don't know what god knows, and there could be one, even if you can't think of it. Also this is the same argument creationists use against evolution "you cant think of how *complicated thing x* evolved, therefore it didn't therefore god".
It could possibly be the first one (maybe the second one works, though I was really arguing the first one is a possibility). It's a long shot I know, but it's a valid argument. It is a bit of a cop-out, because I don't really think there could be such an explanation, but the possibility is there.
If I were prone to believing in things with very little chance of being true, I'd probably also believe there was an explanation. Like god, I can't say for sure its impossible, but don't believe it.
basically, in order for there to be freewill we have to be able to always choose good. That means there has to be a possible world where we all have freewill, but never choose to sin. So then God should have created that world instead of this one. Since he's all knowing, he knows which world to create where nobody sins, and since he's all powerfull, then he's able too. So being all loving as well, he would have created that perfect world. But he didn't why not?
He did create a perfect world. Again, if God programmed us just to do good then what freewill do we have. That is limited freewill. You want God to give us a freewill that can only choose to do good. That is not freewill at all. Now, why does evil exist. Because of God. God is perfect and good, you remove God, you get the opposite - evil. You remove light, you end up with darkness. Same with God, and He gives a choice on whether do good or whether to do evil. Evil is inevitable.
I've read there are about 155,000 people that die every day. that's about 107 people each minute. So where is the time to explain your behaviour to GOD when judgement day has arrived. I've never seen miracles remotely close to those in the bible. The bible is just a story.... and science is the way to go.
Finally, someone nails it. The whole issue with Jesus' sacrifice really becomes completely insignificant if he simply comes back to live and gets to spend eternity presiding over creation. He did not exactly sacrifice anything and neither did God the father. Even if we try to reason within the Christian scheme it still makes no sense
They write so many brilliant, insightful books full of satisfying answers to tough question, that are really empty sophistry and platitudes that don't answer the question one bit.
That's not completely right, but close. What you are proposing is ethical relativism. The problem of that view being that social reformers such as MLK, the US Founding Fathers, and Ghandi must have been doing immoral acts until they succeeded in their reforms. Since you must have a lot of influence to succeed in reform, it follows that Might makes Right.
A better way to look at it is that Good and Evil don't exist, only what is beneficial or detrimental to society and the species.
@peronkop pretty much, morality is ambiguous in that regard, America, has a set of conditioned acceptances that often times go without saying. Whereas in japan, a much more open society, has comparably obscene material for sale in its markets with a much more lax view on the sexual stigmas we face. Who is right in this comparison? Neither. They're just two microcosms of social conditioning.
@peronkop this argument is based on the idea that there would be evil just like in a world where the bible is true, and if you don't believe in evil(I know I don't) you can still see in this argument the argument that if this god exists he's a cruel being.
"""GOD is the word of that you can be assured 7th english letter G 15th is O 4th is D when spirit showed that wanna know what that meant to me how that =26 there's 26 letters in the english alphabet and letters make words so GOD is the word don't forget The Th0ught Pr0v0ker tells it in his music video!!! love"""
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He is the greatest and the best but because of an age old decision to choose evil; God's hands are tied right now until certain events take place. He is all knowing and he is all loving and he is trying to help us the best he can but like I said there is an old magic that must be followed (the only way I can explain it is for you to watch The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe) and he did come down and sacrifice his life so that we would not be utterly condemned, which was Satan's plan.
I disagree; he does give a shit but like I said earlier on, there are rules in this Universe that we do not understand; rules of choice and freedom.
God cares because he came down to earth as flesh to die so that we could live. That is putting himself in our shoes big time; he became human. There are rules that have to be followed; just as there are scientific rules. God has power but his power is not above the rules. He could not stop Satan from tempting Adam and
But they had the choice to say No. There are rules of gravity right? A fish breathes through gills, we breathe through lungs. God must follow rules as well. He can not interfere; he can only work within the hearts of man to follow his will. The bible is not a book of contradictions. There were a lot of jerks in the bible and God just lets us know the history through his servants. If it was a bogus book all God's people would be perfect; like a propoganda book.
In the James Bond movie with Daniel Craig, he tried to save Vesper but he couldn't; he could only tell her to undo the lock. Because he couldn't save her, did that mean he did not love her? She put herself in that situation and it was up to her to help him help her. We must help God to help us. He can't just zap away the troubles.
Sometimes the rules don't make sense to us and we judge God when bad things happen and we blame God. Don't we have power to do something?
If we see a homeless dog, we can stop and help the dog. We have a choice. If we see bullying at work, we can say something. One person can make a gigantic difference. Ever watched the movie, "It's a Wonderful Life"? God works through us, not for us. And I believe he does care; it is Satan who wants you to think God doesn't care because he knows the rules too and that is why he encourages people to act in an evil and selfish way. Read proverbs.
Is that your argument? I know how easy it is not to believe but when you do ever realize that there is a God, you will see the battle field you are really living in; like the movie 'The Matrix'; all is not what it seems to be.
God can't wave his magic wand and save us from ourselves. Do you take no responsibility for this life? You want to blame and hate God for man's evil? Who is doing the evil? Every human on this planet can make someone else's life a little better and that is a miracle
Okay, I see your point. I was focusing on the preventable evil and not on natural disasters like the Tsunami in Indonesia or earth quakes or diseases. I tend to be very focused on one area at at time (I have Asperger's Syndrome).
These natural disasters have nothing to do with our free will or how moral we are; you are right. And I don't understand why this happens and when I get to heaven that will be one of the questions I am going to ask God, as well as many other questions.
I know God exists (I have had spiritual experiences both from the evil guy and God). I am not lying. I don't know if autistic people like me are more sensitive this way but I know for a fact that God exists.
This is where I question if God is all powerful; he is the most powerful but if he was all powerful then the devil would not have any power to hurt God's earth and his people. There are things we do not understand that are connected to God's power.
If God was all powerful then why would there be a war in heaven? Why did God and the good angels have to battle Satan and the evil angels?
God and his angels won but not without a fight and the devil still had power, so much power that God had to come down in the form of man to die for us so that we would not all be condemned to hell.
This might sound like a fairy tale but is everything in life really that explainable? Do all the pieces fit? Can everything be explained? No.
I think God needs us as much as we need him and I think that he doesn't have power right now, not the power to stop natural disasters---that by the way, Satan causes; in the bible it is written that he has power over natural disasters.
For some reason, God's hands are tied and his only power is through us. Imagine the pain he is suffering as his children die? I know that it is more painful for me to watch something else suffer, especially if I can't do anything to help.
There is a huge war going on; a war of the spirits, a war between God and his angels and the Devil and his demons.
If you reject God you are going on the side of Satan (for we are not neutral). I don't understand but I have faith in God and I won't let the devil harden my heart and make me bitter and blame God for the pain in the world.
God exists, period. If you don't think he is loving, fine but he still exists and he still created the world. You stick your head in the sand and say, "I don't like this God so I don't believe he exists, I don't like his policies" and think that will erase him? He is what he is and he's the boss and whether you think he is loving or not.
Do you say, "I don't like my boss at work so I am going to decide that my boss does not exist, la, la, la".
I think God is loving and he sacrificed big time for us. And if there is evil, it is our fault, not his. People chose to elect Hitler. People chose to kill. God did not make them. God helps and helped in ways we can not see and he worked in the hearts of many people. But according the the old magic, we have to be the ones to stop evil. Moses had to save the people; God can help Moses, God can help Mother Theresa, but we have to be the ones to act, to choose.
I can see my boss. My boss actually talks to me. My boss didnt come from a book of contradictions. Im not opposed to the idea of there being a creator but the idea of him being the way religion describes is ridiculous. A god may exist but if he does, he doesnt give a shit about us.
There are certain rules in the Godly realm that we do not understand, like an old magic that is mentioned in C.S. Lewis's book, "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe".
God does prevent evil by acting through people; it is up to us to stop evil and God tries to encourage and inspire us to do so. God acted through Mother Theresa. I think she did a lot to help those who suffer.
God acted in the hearts of people who risked their lives to help the Jewish people.
quote: "The point is that the world is arbitrary in the moral sense "----what does this have to do with God?
God is not arbitrary in the moral sense; he has very clear rules about what is right and what is wrong. And you have to read the entire Bible to understand, not just bits of it. "Nothing demonstrates that this world is any different from one in which no god exists?"--this statement does not make sense to me. It is a bullshit statement.
How can u even complain about evil, unless you recognize good?
If you can recongize good and evil then there must be objective stand point to differentiate what is good and evil. (if subjective then is all opinon base hence how do you differentiate truth above anothers?)
That absolute (objective) stand point is what you don't want to recognize.
Good by its nature and character can exist without evil, but evil cannot exist without out good, because its nature is to destroy what suppose to be
It is subjective. if you put two families on a desert island with enough supplies to mantain just one you will see that their morals will change pretty fast. Anyway morals usually have a startpoint of anything that benefits the community is good and anything that doesn't is evil. It's a little more complex but that's the base point in societies among social animals.
Oh and you just said good can exist without evil then why is that not the case? is god less powerful than satan?
"Oh and you just said good can exist without evil then why is that not the case? is god less powerful than satan?"
kyagh
This might be hard for you, but the reason is cause of the nature of Love. Love cannot force itself upon you, if it does then it cease to be love but rape. The reason there's evil to this day is because Love gave us a choice. Man have choosen to do evil, we have braught evil into being, by perverting that which is good, the things of God.
Ah yeah, i forgot the goddness god put into HIV AIDS smallpox cancer downsyndrome etc... so much godness it's a shame we are destroying that godness with the evil science. (lol)
Kyagh good and evil cannot be subjective or else it's an opinion and we are wasting our time talking about it. opinions are just that unless an authority acts upon it (by whatever means), then i would have to question what right does that authority have to force it's opinion on me? This is were things get ugly for might will give authority, and power in the hands of man, has always braught distruction and chaos.
When you recognize evil, you are using and absolute to state this isn't right.
Right i forgot that the power in the hand of your god brought over the flood that killed all living things because they "sinned". I'd rather have power in the hand of man than power in the hand of a homophobic tyrannical egoistic megalomaniac jealous being. But noo praise god!
Oh and rape... your god LOOVES RAPE (deuteronomy 22:28-29)
Oh and want to know how to really please your god? leviticus first 9 chapters. Yes he is really the absolute standard for morals. For EVIL morals that is.
why are talking to me about the Flood and the Civic law of Israel of the past?
Don't rant and jump all over, that is a waste of time.
I stated that you need an objective standard to tell good from evil. You stated that it is subjective, I told u if so then it's all opinion base and no one can distinguish good from evil, cause evil to you might be good to me and vica versa.
If it's subjective then stating something is good and evil is a waste of time.
Here's were the stupidity of atheists shows. They lack the imagination of why evil and God exist at the same time. Well, imagine the alternative. If we all lived in a sterile universe were it is impossible for anything to go wrong then it wouldn't be a real world.
1-How it's been confirmed? 2-Who confirmed it? 3-Can you provide a link or something where I can check and contrast the data that supposedly confirms it? 4-What are your sources to claim afterlife it's been confirmed?
Such a confirmation would be world wide news and I haven't see or heard ANY information or evidence about "confirmed" afterlife.. it would be everywhere, like: "Flash News, sorry we interrupt this program but afterlife it's been confirmed..." etc. I say: give me the EVIDENCE!
The afterlife has been scientifically confirmed. A secret diary recently exposed to the public has revealed to this truth to the world. Find out more at DoesAccount. com. Copy and paste 3 times and help build the staircase to heaven.
Sorry, that standard of evidence is pathetically low. The standard of evidence which I seek should match that of primary peer reviewed journals/research papers. So, peer reviewed research paper please, to prove your point.
Oh the ignorance of some of you never ceases to amuse me. Redefining the meaning of a word to suit yourself, classic example of so called "post modernism". Your best rebuttal? Thumbs down and nonsensical comments, well done kids, have a cookie ; )
A theist believes in deities. An atheist disbelieves in deities.
Whatever else an atheist might believe is irrelevant to said disbelief.
For instance, Buddhists, Realians and Scientologists are atheists. I don't happen to share their positive beliefs about the supernatural but I do share their disbelief in deities.
It's simple, if there is no devine law, there is no law above our laws. Each man each society and each culture sets their own laws and rules. They are subject to change over time as we can see throughout history. Any "atheist" who argues against this, is a moron.
Atheism = Lack in a belief in a God - Wrong, that's what so called modern atheists have redefined the word to mean to suit themselves. It's not merely lack of belief, it is affirming the non existance of god. Thumbs down me all you want, it doesnt change the fact that what I said was right. Fail more?
Your arguement is self defeating because it presupposes objective moral values but if atheism is true any moral prononcement is either utilitarian pragmatic subject and emotive. There is no law above our laws and it is purely the subjective byproduct of social evolution, which by its very nature is open to change over time (as we see throughout history). This is common fallacious arguement.
It's simple, if there is no devine law, there is no law above our laws. Each man each society and each culture sets their own laws and rules. They are subject to change over time as we can see throughout history. Any "atheist" who argues against this, is a moron.
Saying that all actions might actually have a good outcome that we cannot fathom is an extremely dangerous argument. It is saying that everything is permitted-and indeed is 'God's will'.
It means some lunatic can justify murder, rape and anything else they want to do.
I agree with you but as humans there is nothing we can do to live in a happy world. There is no big conspiracy or devine plan for us. Humans are born with too much of a mind and THAT is the problem of all evil. The only way this planet will ever see peace is if all humans are taken out of the picture as we are only only ones with the inteligence to question our exsistence. Which is where God comes from.
Intent is important and this video intent isn't to find truth.
There's three thing that we know God must be and those are: all powerful, all knowing, all loving aka omnipotent, omnipresence, omnibenevolent.
Now here something God cannot do, he cannot lie, and he cannot change. Yet he is God, cause to lie is against being all loving, and what ever God says is, therefore still omnipotent. Truth cannot not change and it cannot lie.
With all due respect, the fact that you believe there is evil, must mean you believe there is good.
To believe such a thing then you must believe there is a moral standard/law in which to judge what is good and evil; that law must be unchangable and universal, an absolute. It cannot be subjective, therefore it cannot be of man, of humankind.
I suggest you stop trying to deny there is a Law Giver, if you still want to accept there such a thing as good and evil, because you'll need a law.
Let me just say intent is important, this video intent isn't to know truth.
First God cannot change, second God cannot lie. I guess there things he can't do, so i guess he not omnipotent, but if he lies then he's not all loving. He is truth and what he says will occur, now tell me isn't that omnipotent?
Intent is important, content follows after, this video intent isn't to find truth.
The following comment is to answer the issue with you have.
God cannot lie? then why did he say the earth is 6000 years old?
He is all-loning? ALL-LOVING? He sends billions of humans to be tortured in hell for eternity for simply being born under the wrong religion, in ignorance of his belief and he is all-loving? hitler was more all-loving i tihnk -.-
Your question is off topic concerning the problem with evil.
Nevertheless i wish to point out that there's lots of evil and deception occuring in this world and in the religious world.
1. Concerning the age of the earth, please study carbon dating method and how it is done.
Also please study the geological stratum and how they date fossils, note there is no spot on the earth that we can find the entire stratum or a majority of it, and fossils of different time are in the same stratum.
Xeon. Do you belive the earth is 6000 years old? If you do then everything you told me I'm telling it back at you. Go read about that, possibly on wikipedia not on a creationists lamesite, because any problem with carbon dating a christian may point out has already been addressed by scientists.
2. That didn't answer my question, other than saying "go read the bible", again back at you. Do you belive that non-believers will go to heaven? no
Your religion clearly states that the only way for salvation is believing in jesus. All those who are born in india... africa and so on and that were born had not even the slightest idea of who jesus was, THEREFORE they all went to hell FOREVER. There's no escaping this, go read the bible go ask the f***ing pope that's what your religion says. And it also says your god is benevolent...... Yah... right.... (If god exists, then he is evil)
Oh btw look up the tectonic plate theory as well.
Y would i seek a pope to find out what the Bible say, did the pope die for me? can the pope forgive my sin? No. kyagh your not written to a person that doesn't study, i follow only one person and that is Jesus, he is my sheperd, he is the good sheperd.
The priest system has ended long ago, + only sons of Aaron and Levities were allowed to be priest.
I do not believe the earth is billions of years old, i read both writtens of creationist and evolutionist ( will not go in detail with you about such matters not the proper area).
As for the Bible it clearly state the wage of sin is death, regardless of the popular doctrine of eternal torment in the fire of hell, which you seem caught up in. Don't get me wrong there is a Lake of Fire at the end where the wicked will be burn up, but it has an end.
umm genesis 1:3-5 god creates day and night on the first day
Genesis 1:14-19 god created the sun the moon and the stars on the 4th day.
No contraddiction eh? your bible contraddicts even common sense. not only it says the earth is older than the sun it also says there were day and night before there was a sun. WOW
Why do people laugh at creationists? Only creationists don't get it.
Oh and oh no i just sinned! I'm gonna sacrifice a chicken to god! kill it, throw the head to the east then make the blood flow on the altar and then burn the carcass for this will please god (oh i love the leviticus book).
No it doesn't. God creates light first. Then it results in day and night(day and night are not objects). The heavenly bodies were then created to form daylight and nightlight. Finally, your confusing how long it took God to create with it's age. The first humans, plants, animals were created as mature adults. Therefore age is built into creation in one week. That doesn't mean those things were really there years before.
rrrrright.... ooook there was the light all around the earth that somehow traveled around the earth for 3 days then it went off the earth 8 light mins farter and formed the sun. rrrright. Oh yeah and god made the earth already old in a week, so that when later on we would evolve and find this out we would waver our faith and he will test us right. only one problem with that: that's deception and god doesn't lie. So no, it was a good fantasy but your bible says it didnt go that way. try again
The sun is not light. It's an object that emanates light. Yes, the universe is extremely aged to be livable. According to physicists, 300K years after the big bang the universe was still too hot. Only after billions years of cooling did things precipitate out to what they are. So God did this right away. Why wait? You call this deception because your just stupid. Finally, evidence has shown that evolution is thermodynamic not Darwinic. Things are breaking down and becoming exitinct.
The God of the Bible is the most ridiculous arrogant, prideful, murderous self-loathing, suicidal psychopath I have ever heard of! "O I love my creation so much that"... I condemned my only son (through osmosis) to be brutally butchered so I could convince myself to create a loophole to save mankind from the contradictory rules I gave them. Now, instead of creating an everlasting world peace, I will now set humanity toward a pointless apocalyptic “end of the world” …because it would be cool.
1NWOMD 1 month ago
lf-loving God who supposedly flooded the world because people rejected him and his commands, doesn't really seem like an eternal ticket of joy.
jdub94ful 2 months ago
Some argue that God allows pain and suffering for people to appreciate goodness. Except that seems more like a balance principle to me, and is also contradictory to the nature of God and the promise of Heaven, because in Heaven there is said to be eternal joy and an end to all pain and sin. So then the balance is gone. Unless we assume that because Christians will have "perfect souls" capable of experiencing only joy and happiness, according to biblical implications. Then again, worshipping a se
jdub94ful 2 months ago
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jdub94ful 2 months ago
@zooryanzoo123
Tell me about it! Those Pharisees & scribes worked really hard to find a reason to kill Jesus. They were some seriously angry people.
As for Jesus at the Temple, he was simply driving out what wasn't to be there in the first place. It did not say anything about Jesus hitting a person or more with the whip does it? Nope. That would certainly be out of character for Jesus.
Do u know what an ox goad is?If they use that 2 move an animal what is a home-made whip in comparison 2 that?
MALACHAI39 4 months ago
sims 101
MrWAZZAPDUDE 6 months ago
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@LenaZeal "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son."
EdgePitSwing 7 months ago
@LenaZeal In that case you must be deaf
azzy314159 7 months ago
No sinful human could do what the perfect man Jesus did while on earth. He, unlike us, was a completely sinless man in every way. So he didn't just get put to death, he was murdered as a completely innocent man.
Matt.27:18 For (Pilate) was aware that out of envy they had handed him over. 19 Moreover, while he was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent out to him, saying: “Have nothing to do with that righteous man(Jesus), for I suffered a lot today in a dream because of him.”
MALACHAI39 7 months ago
@MALACHAI39
John 2:15
So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.
Someone has some anger issues.
zooryanzoo123 4 months ago
@LenaZeal Sorry. On the contrary it is the theists that have their heads stuck way up their backsides. The atheists don't. You don't want to listen to reason.
azzy314159 7 months ago
@1000years1day Umm, then god is a fucking asshole then. If I made beings, that I loved, and some evil force was messing up there lives, I would get rid of it. Period. I'm morally superior to your god. To bad I'm not in charge of all this, huh?
halflifefan84 8 months ago
Doesn't Alvin Plantinga's free will defense solve the problem of evil?
Drgamedood 9 months ago
Judged by God! Let me be clear that I refuse to be judged by others than my fellow humans beings, imperfect as they may be.And I will NOT blame my actions good and bad on satan, god or what not. I got one life to live, one shot to get it right. And I'll try to make the best of it.
secularnevrosis 10 months ago
we are not robots to be controlled by God we are individual souls with free will. our actions here on earth will be judge. remember this short stay on this physical world is a test to prove our will, faith and love so we can enter the kingdom of God
IlC4RL0SIl 10 months ago
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@IlC4RL0SIl
"we are individual souls with free will. our actions here on earth will be judge."
But the Bible clearly states that we WON'T be judged by our acts, but by our faith...
This is the exact opposite of what you claim. You sure you've read that book?
Lowraith 10 months ago
@IlC4RL0SIl “To every thing there is a season [appointed time],and a time to every purpose [matter or event] under the heaven” (Ecc. 3:1).
“I know that, whatsoever God does…NOTHING can be put to it, nor ANYTHING taken from it: and GOD does it” (Ecc. 3:14).
for He has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work…” (The New Revised Standard Version).
“God is operating ALL in all” (I Cor. 12:6)
“I create EVIL” (Isa. 45:7)
btw you suck since you dont know your bible. no free will
iliveon 10 months ago
@IlC4RL0SIl Really?And why is this test different for everyone?Why does one test last 5 minutes and one 110 years?Why Is one test filled with suffering and sorrow and one test filled with happiness?
lishey100 10 months ago
The "ripple effect" argument is nonsense. It doesn't matter if you think God can bring good out of something like child rape; the point is that God should be able to bring about the same good WITHOUT the child's getting raped!
QuatFax 11 months ago
You haven't heard a good answer to it because no good answer exists! Only zealous Christians plugging their ears.
QuatFax 11 months ago
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Solution: 3minutesermons. blogspot. com/2011/03/problem-of-evil.html
LuckeyL 11 months ago
And the response from YHWHisSoveriegn to people on this video has only proven the point that no benevolent, all powerful, all knowing deity exists. Also, why would anyone willingly worship an entity which delights in endless torture, condones slavery, and would purposefully set us up in a world full of suffering? I can hardly consider a person who worships such an entity mentally or spiritually healthy.
AlexTheHumanist 11 months ago
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AlexTheHumanist 11 months ago
I read my Bible daily like I eat my food. Life is great with Jesus! God bless everyone on this page! Ha ha ha ha ha!!!! Praise God! \0/ :)
LizzielovesJC 1 year ago
@LizzielovesJC I dont read thew bible and i dont belive in any gods at all. Life is great without Jesus and God.
Sweddude 1 year ago
@LizzielovesJC Yay life with real purpose not made up purpose woo!
iliveon 10 months ago
I have noticed atheists who have replied to my comments on here. I NEVER read them, I just go to their channel and check them out. And I have notice that they either
have one, or two, or maybe three friends and no suscribers. Or they have one, or two
subscribers and one friend, or they have no friends and very little subscibers. Now, what does that tell you?? If I reply to their ingnorant comments, it will make me lose my Christianity. God bless everyone on this page. :)
LizzielovesJC 1 year ago
At 07:00 (Muslims in heaven) Muslims are told that in heaven they can have all the sex they want, if they like women there will be 72 virgins for each one, if they like men they can have sex with men.
Make your own decision as to what a young Muslim homosexual who if exposed will be tortured will do to have sex, yes he will die for the faith so he can go to paradise asap.
Evolvedprimate 1 year ago
"its not about creating good in a humanistic sense, its about bringing people into a loving relationship with JC"
Just imagine that there's this guy called Mr Spanky, he allows bad crap to happen to you, and allows bad crap to happen to you so you can enter into a friendship with him so he can then stop the suffering. The guy's a psycho!
TurboDally 1 year ago
Nicely done...
Katalyzt
Katalyzt 1 year ago
Child rape must be OK to Christians and Muslims, for example, as Mary was impregnated against her will and Aisha was forced into marriage at the age of 9 to Mohamed.
I guess being members of these religions is to participate in a mass coverup/smoothing over of their revered figures' crimes.
P0weredByPie 1 year ago
Ephesians 6:12 For we do NOT wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers , against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. This is the reason for all the sufferings, crimes, and such. It's NOT us, is the devil, the prince of darkness! Bad things just don't happen. There's a reason for it all. It's the signs of Jesus second coming back to earth. READ THE BIBLE!!!
LizzielovesJC 1 year ago
@LizzielovesJC I really hate to say this, because I don't know you, but shut the fuck up. Bible verses have almost no literal truth in them. 'Spiritual hosts'? 'Prince of darkness'? I reject your claims of such ridiculous atrocities.
pimpsauce57 1 year ago
@LizzielovesJC We have, it's why we're atheists. Btw if you actually read your book, you'll find that God is the evil character and Satan is a hero fighting against a tyrant.
shadywolf91 1 year ago
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OH! When it would be ok:
TO STOP THEM FROM BEING A VIRGIN SACRIFICE!!! :D
Musterdpotato 1 year ago
Okay how could a child's rape lead to a better thing? Well what if by being raped the child's mind became screwed up and he grows up to murder somebody who would have been the next Hitler, and that's the only way got could stop the murderer... ah never mind, there is no good reason for it and if there was a all good, all knowing and all powerful god it wouldn't happen.
Khyrid 1 year ago
@CartesianTheist Response left on the video.
norcofreerider604 1 year ago
@logoRH Evil that, as the creator of everything, he himself created!
UnderlordZ 1 year ago
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The dumbest atheist is 10 times smarter than the smartest theist.
gcore18 1 year ago
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Where will you go to when you die? Have you ever told lies, stolen, used God's name in vain, or looked at someone with lust? If yes, then you are a lying, theiving, blasphemous, adulterer at heart. When you die & stand before God you'll be guilty of breaking His law. The bible says you'll end up in Hell! So God sent God His Son Jesus to die for your sins, & He rose from the dead on the third day. If you'll believe the Gospel(Jesus died for your sins & was resurrected) you'll be saved!
gramosjr7 1 year ago
The repetition of "child rape" really makes this video.
ReverendLondo 1 year ago
We cannot answer this question in real world, because question is fiction related.
Existence of god must be proven before this question can be asked in real world and answered properly.
SasoriTheOverlord 1 year ago
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus
norcofreerider604 1 year ago 5
i don't relate omnipotence and omniscience with being smart... just saying
enicot 1 year ago
the point is that we would not have free will if there was no such thing as evil. we were made in the image of God, a mind with free will, therefore we have to have the free will to make choices.
there is also no objective way to determine evil without a transcendence.
the comment that he could see no good coming out of child rape is rather ignorant. of course child rape is a bad thing, but many victims of child rape, as well as other traumas, use that event to do a lot of good, look at Oprah
xnorthcarolinax 1 year ago
@xnorthcarolinax There have been child rapes that do not result in a lot of good. If there is a single child rape that did not result in good, your argument is null.
What is free will? Is it based of of our character and environment? God gave us our character and environment. Is it random actions? We cannot hold someone morally responsible for random acts, and god purportedly holds us responsible for our actions.
theclinger 1 year ago
@theclinger its not about creating good in a humanistic sense, its about bringing people into a loving relationship with JC, so maybe if there were a single instance that did not help anyone at all come into one of these relationships then the argument would be null, but thats just wild speculation, and you would have to prove that they never could help someone in the future. as for the free will, i would just refer you to the calvanistic-armenian debate, and look at the monalistic view
xnorthcarolinax 1 year ago
child rape is ok if u let me have that f'er for 5 minutes cuz this person will see god if i get a hold on them
mchlbln 1 year ago
You say that if God is all good and all powerful, then this contradicts the fact that evil is in the world. In logic, if we assume q, then there must be a not q. Otherwise q would be meaningless. If everything is the color blue, then it would be meaningless to call anything blue. The notion of color would also be meaningless. Since God is good, it is of logical necessity that not good must exist. Otherwise the notion of good would be meaningless. That which is not good can simply be called evil.
YHWHisSovereign 1 year ago
@YHWHisSovereign There must be the potential for something to be something other than blue. There doesn't actually have to be red. Additionally, even if you where right, a single speck of red would create something that is not blue. If it is possible that there was one less hurricane, rape, murder... than you are wrong. Why not just bad actions? Why does there need to be extreme pain and suffering?
theclinger 1 year ago
You atheists are so stupid. You complain about evil in the world, but on what basis do you distinguish between good and evil? How can you say that rape is wrong? Isn't this how the human race got started according to you? What difference does it make if a person rapes a 20 year old or a 5 year old? You have nothing to define morality.
YHWHisSovereign 1 year ago
@YHWHisSovereign Now that is just ignoring the problem.
theclinger 1 year ago
@theclinger Continuing with the same argument, if all was blue, and red only existed in potentiality and not in reality, no one would know it. We would still not be able to define blue if no other color existed in reality. No one would know that there was a potential of red if red did not exist.
Now as far as ignoring the problem of evil, what my argument was doing is showing that it did not exist. There is no problem. It is something that Atheists have created to attack Christianity.
YHWHisSovereign 1 year ago
@theclinger Continuing: This video makes some false assumptions that was brought about by bad Christian doctrine.
Corrections:
1. God does not love everyone. God has predestined some to damnation.
2. God does not just allow this to happen, He ordains things to happen, even child rape.
For those whom God has predestined to eternal life, we are to give God glory and praise no matter what kind of hardship we go through.
YHWHisSovereign 1 year ago
@YHWHisSovereign
"1. God does not love everyone. God has predestined some to damnation."
Then he is not all good, and there is not a problem. You are one of 1% of christians that would say that. Why worship him then? If he is not all good, are you just submitting to his wrath?
theclinger 1 year ago
@theclinger Why would the fact that He predestines some to damnation not make Him good? What standard are you using to deduce that? What is good and what is evil according to your world view? Is good and evil a social construct that people have devised just to make society work? What bearing would that have on God? Who is the ultimate authority on good and evil? If there is no God, then who decides?
On what basis does the creature say to the creator, "Why did you make me like this"?
YHWHisSovereign 1 year ago
@YHWHisSovereign It depends on what you mean by damnation. I do not know what you would mean by it.
theclinger 1 year ago
@theclinger I take the usually Christian approach. Damnation is eternal punishment in hell.
YHWHisSovereign 1 year ago
Its up to you to finish it, brave fellow!
peronkop 1 year ago
This argument that God allows someone to rape a child because God values free will disgusts me. First off, it's completely facile in that it equates action with will. God doesn't just not change someone's desires, he allows them to act upon them. What it essentially says is that God values the rapist's freedom to attack a child more than the child's right not to be raped. Any society that followed that kind of thinking would collapse overnight.
AHPMB 1 year ago 2
The host completely destroyed the author of that letter.... Though im not against Christianity, i too always thought that a lot of christian arguments are weird logics. They always put all their bets on afterlife. I know a lot of christians who literally told me that they do not care what they can leave behind for their children or having accomplishments because success in THIS life does not mean a thing. do you realize what that mindset can do to your integrity?
catnip302 1 year ago 7
@catnip302 So then, you are doing exactly what you do when you read the bible: picking and choosing the information that suits your beliefs and ignoring the stuff that you don't want to hear or acknowledge.
DrZodas 1 year ago
@DrZodas I dont read bible... :P sorry. i just think its a basic responsibility to live life to the fullest and do as many good things with yoru life as possible. There are some good ideas that i heard from people that i later found out that theyre actually from the bible. bible does have some pretty good stuff. but i just cant agree with the idea of doing something in your current life for a reward in your afterlife.... because thats the exact same reason for the terrorist attack in Sep 11th.
catnip302 1 year ago
"I would rather see God do this, I would rather God be this way, I would rather look at the problem like this, THAT isn't helping how I see the problem, THIS doesn't work when I view the world my way..."
I never receive any intellectual insights from this show, all I get out of this show is a good laugh or two at some fuming frustrated atheists (with chips on their shoulders) who feel violated by other people's beliefs.
circusOFprecision 1 year ago
obviously you don't actually listen to them and yourself then.
haymanrocks 1 year ago
The whole notion of human suffering being used by God as a means to achieving some greater end sort of runs up against the whole idea of -- *Means not justifying Ends.*
Maybe I could simply kidnap a few thousand children and experiment on them and vivisect them in order to find a cure to childhood cancer? Would that be okay, since the end result would be the end of childhood cancer? Absolutely not.
It's wrong to use people for things against their will.
And just as wrong for God to do it.
prodprod 1 year ago
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God allows man to wallow in his sin that he has created because man has freewill. And must learn that sin has implecations, also suffering can draw people close to God.When you weigh up the pain you may suffer in this world against the eternal joy he has promised you in heaven the pain here is nothing. God sees this universe from start to finish, so how can you understand what the plan is or why suffering is allowed. You simply do not understand and instead of rejecting God you should trust him.
Free777Thinker 2 years ago
So god (wich i don't believe exists more than Santa) created the world, knowing beforehand that some of his creatures, yet unborn, were condemned to eternal torture... I mean, he already knew, while creating the world, that Adam and Eve grand-grand-children will be condemn for an error he knew human will do, tempted by a creature he created to, the snake... That is utterly absurd...
Acrimonator 2 years ago 32
@Acrimonator I like to imagine the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve standing at the tree talking about whether or not to eat the apple, with god standing on the other side, snickering. I mean, Christianity has already said it, "God is everywhere."
halonone 10 months ago
Oh, and which denomination of Christianity would give me that pass to heaven? And why Christianity, why not Islam? Or any other religion?
And what about all those billions and billions of people God KNEW would not find the one true path, they don't get to heaven, just to suffer for all eternity. How is it exactly that I should trust a God that puts up such a scheme and doesn't leave a single solid hint as to what religion to choose???
Then there is the suffering of animals, what about them??
balkan2k 1 year ago 4
@Free777Thinker trust my dkick , that is not a moral god, if God truly exists I think he'd be disgusted at that mindset
kaga13 1 year ago
I know a method that might stop child rape.
Kill every person who molests a child, no exceptions. Kill all their offspring and every child they molested, then sterilize the offender's siblings and their offspring.
God obviously doesn't give a rat's ass about children. You want to see change, it's going to have to be evolutionary.
CanadiaNecro1 2 years ago
@CanadiaNecro1
Could just make them better at hiding
wightboy12345 2 years ago
And the next step is ? Cut hand to thieves...
Acrimonator 2 years ago
That's assuming that the propensity to rape children is genetic. i mean, we often find whole families of child rapists, right? Whole families of pedophiles?
If it were that obvious, and that easy, I'm sure we would have started killing these people millenia ago.
Bardlettt 1 year ago
The one thing that pisses me off on this planet is arguments! I am sick of humans using there intelligence to piss others off...fucking hell. I wish I was a lower species, humans are assholes.
0121ryanh117 2 years ago
This is still all a bit stupid, we all know God doesn't exist. I use the word "know" lightely though because people dont like the truth.
0121ryanh117 2 years ago
"To explain truth to him who loves it not is to give more plentiful material for misinterpretation."
- George McDonald
The atheists will never understand the Word of God. The spiritual eyes are remained shut, and only their physical eyes are opened to that of the physical. And to add to it. Raising the issue of evil contradicts their own worldview. Without God, there is no objective moral law. They're borrowing from God to debunk God.
GENESISaFigment 2 years ago
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0121ryanh117 2 years ago
@GENESISaFigment I resent that. I do not need a book to tell me not to rape kids. And evolutionary psychology and sociology explains moral law.
roadkill14 1 year ago 2
"until you can come up with a circumstance where child rape is the best solution then you're wrong and im right" that is missing the point of that argument (the second one), the point is you don't know what god knows, and there could be one, even if you can't think of it. Also this is the same argument creationists use against evolution "you cant think of how *complicated thing x* evolved, therefore it didn't therefore god".
Pwnagemerchant 2 years ago
So God let's child rape happen because in the end he knows there will come something good out if it. Or he cannot stop it because of free will
Which one is it?
vxubean 2 years ago
It could possibly be the first one (maybe the second one works, though I was really arguing the first one is a possibility). It's a long shot I know, but it's a valid argument. It is a bit of a cop-out, because I don't really think there could be such an explanation, but the possibility is there.
If I were prone to believing in things with very little chance of being true, I'd probably also believe there was an explanation. Like god, I can't say for sure its impossible, but don't believe it.
Pwnagemerchant 2 years ago
basically, in order for there to be freewill we have to be able to always choose good. That means there has to be a possible world where we all have freewill, but never choose to sin. So then God should have created that world instead of this one. Since he's all knowing, he knows which world to create where nobody sins, and since he's all powerfull, then he's able too. So being all loving as well, he would have created that perfect world. But he didn't why not?
Aphex217Twin 2 years ago
He did create a perfect world. Again, if God programmed us just to do good then what freewill do we have. That is limited freewill. You want God to give us a freewill that can only choose to do good. That is not freewill at all. Now, why does evil exist. Because of God. God is perfect and good, you remove God, you get the opposite - evil. You remove light, you end up with darkness. Same with God, and He gives a choice on whether do good or whether to do evil. Evil is inevitable.
GENESISaFigment 2 years ago
He doesn't have to program us to only choose Good, he just has to create a world where he knows we will only do good on our own, and not sin.
Aphex217Twin 2 years ago
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I've read there are about 155,000 people that die every day. that's about 107 people each minute. So where is the time to explain your behaviour to GOD when judgement day has arrived. I've never seen miracles remotely close to those in the bible. The bible is just a story.... and science is the way to go.
lxx28 2 years ago
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lxx28 2 years ago
Finally, someone nails it. The whole issue with Jesus' sacrifice really becomes completely insignificant if he simply comes back to live and gets to spend eternity presiding over creation. He did not exactly sacrifice anything and neither did God the father. Even if we try to reason within the Christian scheme it still makes no sense
Nocturnalux 2 years ago
The Steelers lost to the Browns. The world is already at an end.
jakanddax0 2 years ago
They write so many brilliant, insightful books full of satisfying answers to tough question, that are really empty sophistry and platitudes that don't answer the question one bit.
Gnickk 2 years ago 2
...what if 'god' is an 8th grader- and we're a petri dish science experiment- that get's maybe a C-
compvm33 2 years ago
Free Will is an illusion. Face it. Science proved it, wake up.
REdirectURL 2 years ago
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how did science prove it? im not necessarily disputing you im just curious where you got this from.
pandaguy666 2 years ago
Lets solve this.
Evil doesn't exist and neither does good. Only social acceptance.
peronkop 2 years ago 62
@peronkop
That's not completely right, but close. What you are proposing is ethical relativism. The problem of that view being that social reformers such as MLK, the US Founding Fathers, and Ghandi must have been doing immoral acts until they succeeded in their reforms. Since you must have a lot of influence to succeed in reform, it follows that Might makes Right.
A better way to look at it is that Good and Evil don't exist, only what is beneficial or detrimental to society and the species.
Wraithofvolsunga 1 year ago
@peronkop and individual acceptance, and natural urge to live and reproduce.. instinct
enicot 1 year ago
@peronkop pretty much, morality is ambiguous in that regard, America, has a set of conditioned acceptances that often times go without saying. Whereas in japan, a much more open society, has comparably obscene material for sale in its markets with a much more lax view on the sexual stigmas we face. Who is right in this comparison? Neither. They're just two microcosms of social conditioning.
drpeppa2357 1 year ago
@peronkop this argument is based on the idea that there would be evil just like in a world where the bible is true, and if you don't believe in evil(I know I don't) you can still see in this argument the argument that if this god exists he's a cruel being.
theone0044 1 year ago
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misterdeeeep 2 years ago
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He is the greatest and the best but because of an age old decision to choose evil; God's hands are tied right now until certain events take place. He is all knowing and he is all loving and he is trying to help us the best he can but like I said there is an old magic that must be followed (the only way I can explain it is for you to watch The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe) and he did come down and sacrifice his life so that we would not be utterly condemned, which was Satan's plan.
Emilydogcat 2 years ago
If your god exists his hands are never tied!
An all powerfull god doesn't have to sacrifice, he doesn't have to comprimize, he doesn't have to wait for the correct timing; he can just do it.
He can solve every problem you can come up with, if he is what you are claiming he is. So why doesn't he?
Sjarke98 2 years ago 2
I do go on and on; sorry about that. Another Asperger trait. Evil is a big problem.
Emilydogcat 2 years ago
Evil IS a big problem.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
-Epicurus-
It basically proves god as either not all-knowing and all-loving....or both - if he even exists at all.
Nihm420 2 years ago 3
I disagree; he does give a shit but like I said earlier on, there are rules in this Universe that we do not understand; rules of choice and freedom.
God cares because he came down to earth as flesh to die so that we could live. That is putting himself in our shoes big time; he became human. There are rules that have to be followed; just as there are scientific rules. God has power but his power is not above the rules. He could not stop Satan from tempting Adam and
Emilydogcat 2 years ago
But they had the choice to say No. There are rules of gravity right? A fish breathes through gills, we breathe through lungs. God must follow rules as well. He can not interfere; he can only work within the hearts of man to follow his will. The bible is not a book of contradictions. There were a lot of jerks in the bible and God just lets us know the history through his servants. If it was a bogus book all God's people would be perfect; like a propoganda book.
Emilydogcat 2 years ago
In the James Bond movie with Daniel Craig, he tried to save Vesper but he couldn't; he could only tell her to undo the lock. Because he couldn't save her, did that mean he did not love her? She put herself in that situation and it was up to her to help him help her. We must help God to help us. He can't just zap away the troubles.
Sometimes the rules don't make sense to us and we judge God when bad things happen and we blame God. Don't we have power to do something?
Emilydogcat 2 years ago
If we see a homeless dog, we can stop and help the dog. We have a choice. If we see bullying at work, we can say something. One person can make a gigantic difference. Ever watched the movie, "It's a Wonderful Life"? God works through us, not for us. And I believe he does care; it is Satan who wants you to think God doesn't care because he knows the rules too and that is why he encourages people to act in an evil and selfish way. Read proverbs.
Emilydogcat 2 years ago
What a load of horseshit.
Nihm420 2 years ago
Is that your argument? I know how easy it is not to believe but when you do ever realize that there is a God, you will see the battle field you are really living in; like the movie 'The Matrix'; all is not what it seems to be.
God can't wave his magic wand and save us from ourselves. Do you take no responsibility for this life? You want to blame and hate God for man's evil? Who is doing the evil? Every human on this planet can make someone else's life a little better and that is a miracle
Emilydogcat 2 years ago
26,000 children die every single day from starvation/preventable diseases.
The tsunami in Indonesia killed 283,100 people.
People in India die by the hundreds of thousands every few years from severe flooding.
If your way of explaining this is because we have free will, or are not moral enough, or its all because of sin then you miss the obvious response.
Being all-powerful means you don't get to pass the buck.
Nihm420 2 years ago
Okay, I see your point. I was focusing on the preventable evil and not on natural disasters like the Tsunami in Indonesia or earth quakes or diseases. I tend to be very focused on one area at at time (I have Asperger's Syndrome).
These natural disasters have nothing to do with our free will or how moral we are; you are right. And I don't understand why this happens and when I get to heaven that will be one of the questions I am going to ask God, as well as many other questions.
Emilydogcat 2 years ago
I know God exists (I have had spiritual experiences both from the evil guy and God). I am not lying. I don't know if autistic people like me are more sensitive this way but I know for a fact that God exists.
This is where I question if God is all powerful; he is the most powerful but if he was all powerful then the devil would not have any power to hurt God's earth and his people. There are things we do not understand that are connected to God's power.
Emilydogcat 2 years ago
If God was all powerful then why would there be a war in heaven? Why did God and the good angels have to battle Satan and the evil angels?
God and his angels won but not without a fight and the devil still had power, so much power that God had to come down in the form of man to die for us so that we would not all be condemned to hell.
This might sound like a fairy tale but is everything in life really that explainable? Do all the pieces fit? Can everything be explained? No.
Emilydogcat 2 years ago
I think God needs us as much as we need him and I think that he doesn't have power right now, not the power to stop natural disasters---that by the way, Satan causes; in the bible it is written that he has power over natural disasters.
For some reason, God's hands are tied and his only power is through us. Imagine the pain he is suffering as his children die? I know that it is more painful for me to watch something else suffer, especially if I can't do anything to help.
Emilydogcat 2 years ago
There is a huge war going on; a war of the spirits, a war between God and his angels and the Devil and his demons.
If you reject God you are going on the side of Satan (for we are not neutral). I don't understand but I have faith in God and I won't let the devil harden my heart and make me bitter and blame God for the pain in the world.
Emilydogcat 2 years ago
God exists, period. If you don't think he is loving, fine but he still exists and he still created the world. You stick your head in the sand and say, "I don't like this God so I don't believe he exists, I don't like his policies" and think that will erase him? He is what he is and he's the boss and whether you think he is loving or not.
Do you say, "I don't like my boss at work so I am going to decide that my boss does not exist, la, la, la".
Emilydogcat 2 years ago
I think God is loving and he sacrificed big time for us. And if there is evil, it is our fault, not his. People chose to elect Hitler. People chose to kill. God did not make them. God helps and helped in ways we can not see and he worked in the hearts of many people. But according the the old magic, we have to be the ones to stop evil. Moses had to save the people; God can help Moses, God can help Mother Theresa, but we have to be the ones to act, to choose.
Why blame God for our evil?
Emilydogcat 2 years ago
I can see my boss. My boss actually talks to me. My boss didnt come from a book of contradictions. Im not opposed to the idea of there being a creator but the idea of him being the way religion describes is ridiculous. A god may exist but if he does, he doesnt give a shit about us.
Owunthrizzel 2 years ago
There are certain rules in the Godly realm that we do not understand, like an old magic that is mentioned in C.S. Lewis's book, "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe".
God does prevent evil by acting through people; it is up to us to stop evil and God tries to encourage and inspire us to do so. God acted through Mother Theresa. I think she did a lot to help those who suffer.
God acted in the hearts of people who risked their lives to help the Jewish people.
Emilydogcat 2 years ago
quote: "The point is that the world is arbitrary in the moral sense "----what does this have to do with God?
God is not arbitrary in the moral sense; he has very clear rules about what is right and what is wrong. And you have to read the entire Bible to understand, not just bits of it. "Nothing demonstrates that this world is any different from one in which no god exists?"--this statement does not make sense to me. It is a bullshit statement.
Emilydogcat 2 years ago
your fault is thinking that the bible teaches that god rules the world.
CptnChan 2 years ago
Sin is not a thing.
juxblaze 2 years ago
How can u even complain about evil, unless you recognize good?
If you can recongize good and evil then there must be objective stand point to differentiate what is good and evil. (if subjective then is all opinon base hence how do you differentiate truth above anothers?)
That absolute (objective) stand point is what you don't want to recognize.
Good by its nature and character can exist without evil, but evil cannot exist without out good, because its nature is to destroy what suppose to be
Xeonxtreme 2 years ago
It is subjective. if you put two families on a desert island with enough supplies to mantain just one you will see that their morals will change pretty fast. Anyway morals usually have a startpoint of anything that benefits the community is good and anything that doesn't is evil. It's a little more complex but that's the base point in societies among social animals.
Oh and you just said good can exist without evil then why is that not the case? is god less powerful than satan?
kyagh 2 years ago
"Oh and you just said good can exist without evil then why is that not the case? is god less powerful than satan?"
kyagh
This might be hard for you, but the reason is cause of the nature of Love. Love cannot force itself upon you, if it does then it cease to be love but rape. The reason there's evil to this day is because Love gave us a choice. Man have choosen to do evil, we have braught evil into being, by perverting that which is good, the things of God.
Xeonxtreme 2 years ago
Ah yeah, i forgot the goddness god put into HIV AIDS smallpox cancer downsyndrome etc... so much godness it's a shame we are destroying that godness with the evil science. (lol)
kyagh 2 years ago
Kyagh good and evil cannot be subjective or else it's an opinion and we are wasting our time talking about it. opinions are just that unless an authority acts upon it (by whatever means), then i would have to question what right does that authority have to force it's opinion on me? This is were things get ugly for might will give authority, and power in the hands of man, has always braught distruction and chaos.
When you recognize evil, you are using and absolute to state this isn't right.
Xeonxtreme 2 years ago
Right i forgot that the power in the hand of your god brought over the flood that killed all living things because they "sinned". I'd rather have power in the hand of man than power in the hand of a homophobic tyrannical egoistic megalomaniac jealous being. But noo praise god!
Oh and rape... your god LOOVES RAPE (deuteronomy 22:28-29)
Oh and want to know how to really please your god? leviticus first 9 chapters. Yes he is really the absolute standard for morals. For EVIL morals that is.
kyagh 2 years ago
kyagh
why are talking to me about the Flood and the Civic law of Israel of the past?
Don't rant and jump all over, that is a waste of time.
I stated that you need an objective standard to tell good from evil. You stated that it is subjective, I told u if so then it's all opinion base and no one can distinguish good from evil, cause evil to you might be good to me and vica versa.
If it's subjective then stating something is good and evil is a waste of time.
kyagh please do not rant.
Xeonxtreme 2 years ago
What? Is it a waste of time to express an opinion? Then why are you commenting?
OneStonedBastard 2 years ago
God did not create original sin.
juxblaze 2 years ago
Here's were the stupidity of atheists shows. They lack the imagination of why evil and God exist at the same time. Well, imagine the alternative. If we all lived in a sterile universe were it is impossible for anything to go wrong then it wouldn't be a real world.
juxblaze 2 years ago
That's true. The afterlife has been confirmed. what do the atheist have to say about that...
devopi 2 years ago
1-How it's been confirmed? 2-Who confirmed it? 3-Can you provide a link or something where I can check and contrast the data that supposedly confirms it? 4-What are your sources to claim afterlife it's been confirmed?
Such a confirmation would be world wide news and I haven't see or heard ANY information or evidence about "confirmed" afterlife.. it would be everywhere, like: "Flash News, sorry we interrupt this program but afterlife it's been confirmed..." etc. I say: give me the EVIDENCE!
DocStrange0123 2 years ago
What "proof"? I await your answer.
TurboDally 2 years ago
The afterlife has been scientifically confirmed. A secret diary recently exposed to the public has revealed to this truth to the world. Find out more at DoesAccount. com. Copy and paste 3 times and help build the staircase to heaven.
byussa 2 years ago
DoesAccount. com.? I know that page and... are you kidding me? are you calling that "scientifically confirmed"?... don't make me laugh...
DocStrange0123 2 years ago 2
Sorry, that standard of evidence is pathetically low. The standard of evidence which I seek should match that of primary peer reviewed journals/research papers. So, peer reviewed research paper please, to prove your point.
TurboDally 2 years ago
funny how christians dont mention all the other people that were crucified, at the time by the romans.they just died for there own crimes.
Doversreturn 2 years ago
you are blessed with intelligence, common sense and a beautiful voice. I love you <3333
esrapk 2 years ago
Oh the ignorance of some of you never ceases to amuse me. Redefining the meaning of a word to suit yourself, classic example of so called "post modernism". Your best rebuttal? Thumbs down and nonsensical comments, well done kids, have a cookie ; )
JaredNomac 2 years ago
Well said Jared.
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
Theism and atheism address belief in deities.
A theist believes in deities. An atheist disbelieves in deities.
Whatever else an atheist might believe is irrelevant to said disbelief.
For instance, Buddhists, Realians and Scientologists are atheists. I don't happen to share their positive beliefs about the supernatural but I do share their disbelief in deities.
wynd2007 2 years ago
Atheists FTW!!
ArrogantAtheist 2 years ago
It's simple, if there is no devine law, there is no law above our laws. Each man each society and each culture sets their own laws and rules. They are subject to change over time as we can see throughout history. Any "atheist" who argues against this, is a moron.
JaredNomac 2 years ago
Atheism = Lack in a belief in a God - Wrong, that's what so called modern atheists have redefined the word to mean to suit themselves. It's not merely lack of belief, it is affirming the non existance of god. Thumbs down me all you want, it doesnt change the fact that what I said was right. Fail more?
JaredNomac 2 years ago
Congratulations, you fail it!
Weak atheism - disbelief in gods.
Strong atheism - assertion that there are no gods
mandendersked2007 2 years ago
Your arguement is self defeating because it presupposes objective moral values but if atheism is true any moral prononcement is either utilitarian pragmatic subject and emotive. There is no law above our laws and it is purely the subjective byproduct of social evolution, which by its very nature is open to change over time (as we see throughout history). This is common fallacious arguement.
JaredNomac 2 years ago
Atheism = Lack in a belief in a God
So if its true i lack a belief in a god you make all these presumptions? its retarded and im sure you see it too
KarinMikazuki 2 years ago
It's simple, if there is no devine law, there is no law above our laws. Each man each society and each culture sets their own laws and rules. They are subject to change over time as we can see throughout history. Any "atheist" who argues against this, is a moron.
JaredNomac 2 years ago
Saying that all actions might actually have a good outcome that we cannot fathom is an extremely dangerous argument. It is saying that everything is permitted-and indeed is 'God's will'.
It means some lunatic can justify murder, rape and anything else they want to do.
rickelmonoggin 2 years ago
I agree with you but as humans there is nothing we can do to live in a happy world. There is no big conspiracy or devine plan for us. Humans are born with too much of a mind and THAT is the problem of all evil. The only way this planet will ever see peace is if all humans are taken out of the picture as we are only only ones with the inteligence to question our exsistence. Which is where God comes from.
darthkahn45 2 years ago
Intent is important and this video intent isn't to find truth.
There's three thing that we know God must be and those are: all powerful, all knowing, all loving aka omnipotent, omnipresence, omnibenevolent.
Now here something God cannot do, he cannot lie, and he cannot change. Yet he is God, cause to lie is against being all loving, and what ever God says is, therefore still omnipotent. Truth cannot not change and it cannot lie.
Do you value truth?
Do you value God?
What is your intent
Xeonxtreme 2 years ago
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With all due respect, the fact that you believe there is evil, must mean you believe there is good.
To believe such a thing then you must believe there is a moral standard/law in which to judge what is good and evil; that law must be unchangable and universal, an absolute. It cannot be subjective, therefore it cannot be of man, of humankind.
I suggest you stop trying to deny there is a Law Giver, if you still want to accept there such a thing as good and evil, because you'll need a law.
Xeonxtreme 2 years ago
This video already started of wrong.
Let me just say intent is important, this video intent isn't to know truth.
First God cannot change, second God cannot lie. I guess there things he can't do, so i guess he not omnipotent, but if he lies then he's not all loving. He is truth and what he says will occur, now tell me isn't that omnipotent?
Intent is important, content follows after, this video intent isn't to find truth.
The following comment is to answer the issue with you have.
Xeonxtreme 2 years ago
God cannot lie? then why did he say the earth is 6000 years old?
He is all-loning? ALL-LOVING? He sends billions of humans to be tortured in hell for eternity for simply being born under the wrong religion, in ignorance of his belief and he is all-loving? hitler was more all-loving i tihnk -.-
In the bible he also says he IS omnipotent....
kyagh 2 years ago
kyagh
Your question is off topic concerning the problem with evil.
Nevertheless i wish to point out that there's lots of evil and deception occuring in this world and in the religious world.
1. Concerning the age of the earth, please study carbon dating method and how it is done.
Also please study the geological stratum and how they date fossils, note there is no spot on the earth that we can find the entire stratum or a majority of it, and fossils of different time are in the same stratum.
Xeonxtreme 2 years ago
Xeon. Do you belive the earth is 6000 years old? If you do then everything you told me I'm telling it back at you. Go read about that, possibly on wikipedia not on a creationists lamesite, because any problem with carbon dating a christian may point out has already been addressed by scientists.
2. That didn't answer my question, other than saying "go read the bible", again back at you. Do you belive that non-believers will go to heaven? no
I may be offtopic but you quoted these things
kyagh 2 years ago
Your religion clearly states that the only way for salvation is believing in jesus. All those who are born in india... africa and so on and that were born had not even the slightest idea of who jesus was, THEREFORE they all went to hell FOREVER. There's no escaping this, go read the bible go ask the f***ing pope that's what your religion says. And it also says your god is benevolent...... Yah... right.... (If god exists, then he is evil)
Oh btw look up the tectonic plate theory as well.
kyagh 2 years ago
kyagh
Y would i seek a pope to find out what the Bible say, did the pope die for me? can the pope forgive my sin? No. kyagh your not written to a person that doesn't study, i follow only one person and that is Jesus, he is my sheperd, he is the good sheperd.
The priest system has ended long ago, + only sons of Aaron and Levities were allowed to be priest.
This is getting way of topic.
Let's deal with the problem of evil.
Xeonxtreme 2 years ago
kyagh
Do you believe there is evil?
Xeonxtreme 2 years ago
kyagh
I do not believe the earth is billions of years old, i read both writtens of creationist and evolutionist ( will not go in detail with you about such matters not the proper area).
As for the Bible it clearly state the wage of sin is death, regardless of the popular doctrine of eternal torment in the fire of hell, which you seem caught up in. Don't get me wrong there is a Lake of Fire at the end where the wicked will be burn up, but it has an end.
Now back to topic
Xeonxtreme 2 years ago
The bible never tells you how old the earth is. There is no contradiction between modern science and the Bible at this point.
juxblaze 2 years ago
BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHA NO CONTRADDICTION? rofl
umm genesis 1:3-5 god creates day and night on the first day
Genesis 1:14-19 god created the sun the moon and the stars on the 4th day.
No contraddiction eh? your bible contraddicts even common sense. not only it says the earth is older than the sun it also says there were day and night before there was a sun. WOW
kyagh 2 years ago
Why do people laugh at creationists? Only creationists don't get it.
Oh and oh no i just sinned! I'm gonna sacrifice a chicken to god! kill it, throw the head to the east then make the blood flow on the altar and then burn the carcass for this will please god (oh i love the leviticus book).
kyagh 2 years ago 2
No it doesn't. God creates light first. Then it results in day and night(day and night are not objects). The heavenly bodies were then created to form daylight and nightlight. Finally, your confusing how long it took God to create with it's age. The first humans, plants, animals were created as mature adults. Therefore age is built into creation in one week. That doesn't mean those things were really there years before.
juxblaze 2 years ago
rrrrright.... ooook there was the light all around the earth that somehow traveled around the earth for 3 days then it went off the earth 8 light mins farter and formed the sun. rrrright. Oh yeah and god made the earth already old in a week, so that when later on we would evolve and find this out we would waver our faith and he will test us right. only one problem with that: that's deception and god doesn't lie. So no, it was a good fantasy but your bible says it didnt go that way. try again
kyagh 2 years ago
The sun is not light. It's an object that emanates light. Yes, the universe is extremely aged to be livable. According to physicists, 300K years after the big bang the universe was still too hot. Only after billions years of cooling did things precipitate out to what they are. So God did this right away. Why wait? You call this deception because your just stupid. Finally, evidence has shown that evolution is thermodynamic not Darwinic. Things are breaking down and becoming exitinct.
juxblaze 2 years ago
2. concerning enternal torture in