Open and Closed Cell Spray Foam Insulation

[TheTxeng]

I hope you have better success. But BASF SPRAYTITE has been a closed cell foam from hell for us. An applicator in SC purchased the SPRAYTITE® polyurethane foam materials from a supplier near Charlotte, NC. The applicator applied it in Feb 2011 to our garage ceiling. After a week it started smelling like fish. After five months the applicator removed about 60% of it and resprayed it.

The new application has less odor. But the garage still smells. I wish we had never used this product.

[kitfoam]

@TheTxeng Next time you need to insulate something, try us!

[d1incharge]

Here is advice from a licensed building performance analyst: Any contractor claiming "foam is the best" or that foam can in any way pay for itself in savings, or add any value to your home, is not only too stupid to do fairly simple math, but are crooked for claiming they have done the math and they know it saves money. IT CANNOT POSSIBLY BEAT LOOSE-FILLS, NEVER HAS NEVER WILL. Insulation is ONLY used for R-value, air sealing should be done on the TWO required air barriers in EVERY wall.

[BigDsunburst53]

@d1incharge

Vapor barriers are never used redundantly because of their perm rating, it would cause a condensation trap between the two. Also,unless the climate zone is always constant vapor barriers will become vapor traps depending the dominant heat gradient. CC foam does not rely on the perm rating of the product, it uses the resistance to static pressure and a low K-value to achieve it's high ER. The properties of CC foam are the reason you have a frost free refrigerator.

[d1incharge]

@BigDsunburst53 Its great when you are limited with space, but in a home you are not. 3.5" walls allow for R-15 loose-fill/batts, beyond code in many places especially with a continuous insulation on the outside of a wall(more effective /inch than CC foam in a wall by far. Air sealing has to be done to the TWO air barriers in every wall, CC foam is not rated to be exposed on the outsie of a home(where it would penetrate to "seal" outsided walls) UV and water will destroy it.

[d1incharge]

@BigDsunburst53 Also in attic applications, insulating the ceiling vs. the roof deck is much more efficient no matter the type of insulation. You can install R-60 loosefill in an attic, but can barely creep by R-30 with spray foam which is also likely installed on the roof deck which is retarded. Condition the attic? Idiots! New homes are too tight w/out foam, both IRC and IECC are requireing mechanical ventilation now, w/out foam. Funny thing, you can get double the R for less $

[berrypossum]

I just did the math, and it's cheaper to buy one thousand "Great Stuff" spray foam in a can from Home Depot. They're on sale this week, too.

[RandallFlaggNY]

@berrypossum $8/can * 1,000 cans = $8,000 plus sales tax.

I think a pro would be cheaper for a 1,000 square feet.

[SprayFoamInspections]

What do you do about all the homes that have foam installed, before the new codes forced the foamers to put the "fire coating" on the foams? Although the foams needed the coating before. First of all: 2 inches of closed cell foam is not a moisture barrier or a vapor barrier. Ask this "FOAMER" how many inches deep of closed cell do you need to spray to get to a "Vapor Barrier", he will not know because he thinks it has "Properties" of vapor barriers? HMMMM? And always have vapor concerns,

[Alwaysthenaughty1]

ridged foam will not seal all the air and resitual cold.

[d1incharge]

@Alwaysthenaughty1 Why not? Rigid foam is closed cell foam, and the seams could easily be sealed. It is technically called an "air barrier" and moisture barrier, so how you claim it won't seal sounds like an installer issue. Your "resitual cold" was something you made up, all these years in the home energy business, I don't think I have heard that one. Resitual cold? Rigid foam, higher r-value/inch, same air seal quality, WAY CHEAPER, and you can DYI instead of hiring some goober.

[lrd9999]

@d1incharge I'm guessing he means the radiant losses from the contents of the cellar to the thermal mass of the concrete, but I'm no expert on jargon. Yes, I'd think a DIYer could use spray foam from a kit to attach the rigid foam and to seal around it; that should block everything. But I don't know if it would save anything on a non-DIY job. Wouldn't want to use GreatStuff (as berrypossum suggested); it's more dribble more than spray.

[BigDsunburst53]

@Alwaysthenaughty1

CC foam will seal any area it is sprayed and will pass the ASTM-E-96 and the ASTM E-2178 @ 1".

[toology55]

We used 2" of closed cell foam and batt insulation on top of that on a commercial building we built.

[d1incharge]

Any good reason you didnt just use rigid foam and save yourself a ton of money?

[hitachi088]

@d1incharge

PM him ...