John Cage - Sonatas and Interludes for prepared piano [1/5]

[beethoven6410]

ugh......

[lilstunnawbp]

as soon as i saw "for prepared piano" i knew this would be bull shit

[Mase251]

I always find i kind of awesome if people are pushing the limits and try out new stuff - and that Cage did! Respect for that (although I would not listen to this 2 hours...)

[zanny151]

Very interesting...everything is there as far as structure, even some tonality, but it is all twisted due to the 'prepared' part of the piano. It's like hearing Mozart on LSD or something. Not sure that I would put it on a playlist or pay to see it performed or anything but worth checking out.

[choforito84]

Art isn´t made to be understood, is made to make people feel.

[AttemptingToBeBusy]

I really love the sound of a well-prepared clavier!

[dalecampbl9]

i just recorded my two farts...can i call it "Farts in F" from 1 anus?

[TheEdgarvarese12]

people need to learn something about this music until they start expressing their ignorant views and insulting those who understand the music and spreading totally wrong information on the sonatas and preludes of Cage that it is "abstract" or that it has no overall form or structure.

[amementomori]

Although I enjoy Cage's work, I find that aesthetic appeal is really secondary, and occasionally irrelevant. His music is historically relevant because he deliberately challenged virtually everything we know about music. He is very nearly a musical anarchist -- while the pieces he composed may have been remarkable, his more important work was to pave the way for a renewed understanding of the nature of music and composition.

[krunkwarrior]

lol this nigga was high when he composed this

[kubik554]

thank you J.Cage!

[SionsMusic]

People really don't understand that when appreciating Cage, rather than trying to consider the sounds you here in terms of standard music theory, why not ACTUALLY listen to what your hearing? Every sound created is a miniature masterpiece. To compare Cage (and his contemporaries) to other forms of music is like calling Glitch badly produced as it's formed from clipped audio or slating Debussy for using the whole tone scale, breaking tonality.

[Lukozade123]

Just lol.

[Blitterchips]

Shite.

[Steinbach1984]

I am a master musicology student, currently involved in a course by Paul van Emmerik, one of the most prominent Cage scholars in the world. We have to write papers about works by Cage; mine is by Sonatas and Interludes. Most people even don't realise that Cage wrote much more than just 4'33".

[ICanHazCatBurger]

I think if you dress Cage up in words you greatly detract from the beauty of his stuff. Its less for art's sake than most other music out there, its just a string of beautiful sounds. Cage would say so himself.

PS thanks for uploading with the score, my A2 is saved! :D

[ROLANDMC80EX]

Bottom line! just because you can does not mean you should.In any case the piece itself is not even book one, and anybody with a sound module and a keyboard could create something infinitley more complex .it's as rubbish as his most famous piece!

[leylabobeyla]

@ROLANDMC80EX -- Just because you can does not mean you should -- THAT is rubbish. Just because you can DOES mean you should. In the arts, I mean. Why shouldn't you? There is nothing to loose, maybe lots to gain: maybe that would bring some new ideas to mind. And, why is complexity an issue here? Noone has said or is saying that this cannot be done by anyone else -- nevertheless it was done by this one person and noone else.

[MagicDolphinGO]

this is cute

[bayreuth79]

I would be grateful if someone could explain to me why this music is supposed to be worth listening to? I am an accomplished pianist. I adore Bach, Mozart, Wagner and Stravinsky, so I am not a complete musical philistine, but I cannot see the value of this music by Cage.

[Epogdous]

@bayreuth79 There are many values in Cage's piano music. The significant breakthrough in musical performance, the search of new sonorities (the prepared piano), the innovative compositional process (the nested proportions technique), the new conceptual aesthetic linked to Zen Buddhism and anarchism... John Cage was undoubtedly a key figure in the history of twentieth-century music.

[roundtheblock1]

@Epogdous The music is intriguing, and very listenable when I am in the mood for it. But I think your reply to bayreuth79 was, a) condescending; b) beside the point, and c) not at all helpful.

Suppose one were to take the position that what you are calling "innovations" (such as the prepared piano) were actually disastrous missteps? First of all, neither Zen Buddhism nor Anarchism has anything to do with music, Secondly, to say Cage is  a "key figure" begs the question.

[ChaoticWrilley]

@Epogdous >>>John Cage was undoubtedly a key figure in the history of twentieth-century music.<<< No. It's very much in doubt.

[PSNDemonwing]

@Epogdous this is just noise. honestly. If anyone argues with me, then they are clearly deaf. Cage sucks. Never heard of him. Related videos got me here. ONLY BECAUSE NOISE IS WRITTEN IN SHEET MUSIC DOESN'T MAKE IT MUSIC.

[scalassaraprando]

@PSNDemonwing

Music it's just organized sound, doesn't matter if this sound it's noise or pure sound.

So, music don't have to be written to be music.

Please go first understand philosophy and history to understand Cage's music.

[PSNDemonwing]

@scalassaraprando yu must understand philosophy too. You see there is a thing about philosophy. Its not true. I think about philosophy a lot as well but there is some philosophy that makes no sense. If your definition of music revolves around the philosophy behind your belief of rhythm then you are a sad person. Because according to what you belief. I can fart while taking a piss and that will be music. That is not music.

[acrobaticcyclops]

@PSNDemonwing I had a really hard time understanding what you're saying. You sound like a fifteen year old who has just discovered philosophy. Anyways, farting and pissing could very well be music depending on the context. To say it is not music must mean that you know exactly what music is. So what is it? To me the beauty in music is in the very fact that it cannot be so easily defined.

[PSNDemonwing]

@acrobaticcyclops If you honestly want to argue with me why farting and pissing noises is music then my theory is right and i have given up on humanity.

[leylabobeyla]

to: @bayreuth79

I appreciate your sincere questioning. I prefer listening to this type of music over the music of Bach, et al. I see nothing interesting in the usual music pieces: I am bored of the same timbre, beats, harmonic transitions, etc. In daily life we balance ourselves between desiring the new and making sure the new is not a threat to our survival. This doesn't apply to arts: you don't cut your hand while listening to atonal music. Arts is where we can safely experience the new.

[TheEdgarvarese12]

@leylabobeyla If you are bored of Bach's music you will soon be bored of Cage's music too.

[dorthelion]

@bayreuth79 I think the objective here, as in other art forms, is to be critical. In the "Critique of Pure Reason" Kant tries to examine knowledge's potential, that is, what we can and cannot know: the limits and possibilities of knowledge. When Cezanne and Picasso paint they do the same thing; they try to show the limits and possibilities of painting by actually exposing the paint with thick brushes (Cezanne), or by revealing the painting's surface by flattening represented objects (Picasso).

[dorthelion]

@bayreuth79 Mondrian and Pollock radicalize this critical process when they try to show paintings' materiality:lines, surfaces, drops of paint,etc.In short, these painters try to exhibit the limits of painting through its material properties, and that's what makes them 'modern'(most of their paintings don't represent objects three-dimensionally because the frame itself is two-dimensional).The same thing goes for John Cage.His music is critical because it tries to unveil its own materiality.

[dorthelion]

@bayreuth79 Cage tries to show pure sounds. Now, the difference between his compositions and music becomes obvious. There is no rhythm purposefully; there is no harmony because in order to show the limits and possibilities of music (to make 'modern music') the structure of his productions has to mirror brute sounds, not themes or movements.

I'm sorry for my comments' inverse order; I only realized it after I sent my second post.

[Steinbach1984]

@bayreuth79 Are you joking? Cage's works from this era (1940s) all listen quite easily (unlike much of his later work). The sounds are reminiscent of various kinds of 'world' music yet also strikingly original. Anyway, if you want to know what 'modern music' is about, do read The Rest is Noise by Alex Ross. Even though I don't fully agree with what he says about Cage, it is a good and very accessible book about the music whose values you can't see.

[bboymango]

@bayreuth79 durring beethovens latter compositions, the public didn't know what to take of his music at that time.. they probably thought the same thoughts that you have about the music by cage.

but over 100 years pass and we now consider him a genius. I think we should appreciate or atleast try to appreciate the innovative minds of contemporary composers

[twooffour]

@bayreuth79

You're not cool until you add Ligeti and Ornstein to the list ;)

Having that said, I can't get into this music right now, either... aside from the "interesting sounds", I guess I can't answer your question.

[twooffour]

@bayreuth79

Oh yea, the grooves that follow later on... yea... if you listen to some world music, or Latin jazz, or percussion solos, you'll know what you'll like about this piece ;)

[htielsch]

@bayreuth79

It`s not as easy as you think. I think all your mentioned composers and there music are known. Shure, they all made a very well benifit. A`n John Cage wouldn`t be imaginable without them. Please give him a chance to promote his ambitious music with all of them.

If you want, please let`s talk about this per e-mail. You`re welcome, helmut.schleith@t-online.de

[marktwainisgod]

@bayreuth79 It's about thinking outside of the box for one thing, anybody who has survived college level music theory can write a Bach fugue based on the rules of counterpoint but only John Cage can write someting like this. It's not easy to do.

[TheEdgarvarese12]

@marktwainisgod nobody who has survived college level music theory can write Bach fugue, of course it doesn't mean that they can't write a fugue. It's not about knowing the rules, Bach possessed very rare intelligence and was more revolutionary composer for his time than is Cage. I love Cage's music, but to say such a thing about Bach just for praising John Cage is extremely ignorant.

[HanKyeolYoon]

@bayreuth79 Bach, Mozart, Wagner and Stravinsky. They composed tonal music. So then can you tell me why the music should always be tonal, melodic and rhythmic? It's just prejudice because you know only tonal music which was came from church. You're just saying that because you've heard only those tonal old classic musics since you were kid. You're just avoiding new because it's new. I compose, and it comes directly to me. I felt just like you at first. But i find it now just beautiful as it was.

[KljunasOnche]

@bayreuth79 It's worth listening to if you like it. Period.

[WardBasil]

@bayreuth79 It may be hard to believe, but in addition to what Epogdous said, some of us find this music most appealing for exactly the same reasons you love Bach, Mozart, Wagner, and Stravinsky. Some people's ears have a breadth to them that derive pleasures from soundings far beyond simple tonalities and temperaments. Cage considered himself a percussionist; many percussion instruments have inharmonic spectra, perhaps you should think of this piece as a piece for percussion. Then it is sweet.

[dalecampbl9]

@bayreuth79 it's just a gimmick, it's like playing the electric guitar with a violin bow...or with your teeth...it's all gimmick, very little value, if at all. Cage was just the first person to do it. I've been thinking of setting a $120K Bosendorfer on fire and then record the sound as I'm playing but I didn't want the cops to get on my case.

[JohnnyC5759]

@bayreuth79 he [Cage] described music as "a purposeless play" which is "an affirmation of life – not an attempt to bring order out of chaos nor to suggest improvements in creation, but simply a way of waking up to the very life we're living". There is a fundamental difference between his philosophy of music and mozart's, or bach's. I got that from wikipedia.

[DarkZekeX]

@bayreuth79 How do you explain how those other composers' works are beautiful? To me, this piece, and many others by Cage, are really beautiful, as are pieces by Bach, Mozart, Wagner, Stravinsky, and many many others. I really don't know how to explain it.

[scalassaraprando]

@bayreuth79 When you understand anarchism, you will probably understand the value of Cage's music. Free yourself, there is no more lord and no more god.

[FedericaValenzuela]

@bayreuth79 @bayreuth79 You're so disrespectful sir. SOOOO Disrespectful. How do you even dare to call this crap “music“?

And for all of the morons who pretend to understand the great profoundness of this crap, let me tell you something: You, ALL OF YOU are lying to yourselfs. Non of you actually enjoy nor understand this. Tonality and coherence go along with human nature. There's no neurological way any of you could actually understand this. Not even Cage did. It doesn't make you sound smart.

[acrobaticcyclops]

@FedericaValenzuela You're so sure of yourself

[FedericaValenzuela]

@acrobaticcyclops 400% sure.

[acrobaticcyclops]

@FedericaValenzuela I don't doubt that some people fool themselves into liking John Cage; I can agree with you there. But to say it goes against human nature to enjoy this is ridiculous. "Tonality and coherence go along with human nature" what does that even mean? Sure people tend to be attracted to catchier stuff. But what about acquired taste? You can absolutely enjoy this without lying to yourself.

[acrobaticcyclops]

@FedericaValenzuela I'm not even saying I understand this on a theoretical level, but I definitely find it interesting. And it bothers me that you think I'm lying to myself about that. Just think about it I'd like to hear what you have to say.

[julescost]

@acrobaticcyclops She's not talking about “Catchier Stuff“. I understand what she means by coherence. I love Schoenberg. His stuff was atonal.. but it was clear that the guy used his brain for composing.

Hey.. honestly.. Cage wasn't good :/

[josetato]

@julescost Shoenberg eh? Yeah after "Transfigured night" I pretty much erased him from my mind. Honestly, modern "classical" music has become a science, where the "beauty" relies on showing off your music theory skills with no regard of making "music". (pls dont ask me what music truly is). Schoenberg was an amazing musician that pretty much decided to make crap (after "Transfigured night" I mean)...need to do more research about him. Sorry about my english, just wanted to give my opinion :)

[julescost]

@josetato lol, The sad thing is that there's no such thing as “Music Theory Skills“ in this type of music. You do things as wrong as you possibly can in order to get an “original sound“.

[PSNDemonwing]

@FedericaValenzuela I COMPLETELY AGREE!

[IainOElliott2]

I certainly understand it. For one thing, the spaces between the notes are equally as important as the notes themselves. They are like the artist Robert Rauschenberg's 'white writing'. I don't enjoy anything else by Cage, but I find these pieces very meditative. You know, sir, I don't understand the music of Bach, but I have the humility to admit it and don't put down those who do understand it. If some people are uplifted by this music and you are not, who is ahead?

[nobodady1]

@FedericaValenzuela I do not pretend to enjoy anything. On youtube? What would be the use? But alas, you pretend to understand human nature, and the motives of those who would enjoy what you do not? And neurology, and music theory? You are the pretender.

[avimukta1]

@FedericaValenzuela

mate  ! you talkin cock now!

[MjoEm32]

@FedericaValenzuela

Arrogant and stupid. Arrogant because it pretends to know better than listeners themselves - and in a particularly crude manner. Stupid because the idea that what we like is determined 'neurologically' in such a simple way is totally false. A perfect fifth used to be regarded as the most fitting end to a piece. Atonal music is perfectly possible to appreciate. Stop ranting away - it's childish.

[avimukta1]

@bayreuth79 my question exactly

[TheFrenziedPianist]

Is there a certain way to put the stuff in the piano?

[ClassicHolic]

@TheFrenziedPianist oh yes they sort of screw stuff in between piano cords. i've done it before

[cadence440]

awesome to see with the scores, thanks for uploading it

[juspasenthru]

When I hear this I feel I have been touched by the mind of Gaia.

[haimcito]

excellent music!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[themusicthing]

I'm sorry, but I'm the child that cried out " But the king isn't wearing any clothes!"

So again I give my humble child like view; I was waiting to hear music and only heard some abstract gimmick accompanied by the pressure to accept as art by the same ones who claimed they loved the king's invisible clothes!

[TheEdgarvarese12]

@themusicthing blame it on your ignorance that you don't understand the music, actually this music isn't "abstract" as you say and has a very rigid structure.

[hhvelasq]

Mind blowing! Thanks for posting!

[FederSim]

This is an outrage.

[aC1dxN1gHtM4rEs]

@FederSim Why do you say so?

I'm not attempting to come off all brash or whatever - people are more than entitled to have their own opinions and perceptions, I was jut curious as to why you thought so. What made this an outrage?

[notnowliberty]

Might have slept today, but I calmed down instead. Wonderful music, to me

[waterspindle]

two people dislike wobbly noodles. the rest of us don't mind mental activity.

[ThomasLigre]

Grande che le hai caricate tutte!

[apsuktas]

Yes,thanks a lot!!! Its hard to get stuff like that,and sound qality is also good.=]

[InitialDjay2]

Awesome

[sugarve]

commovente :-)

[scatterfold]

this is absolutely astounding alongside the score - thank you!

[CoolBlokeAndABit]

Thanks for putting the score up alongside the music! I'm doing an essay on this piece and it's seriously saved my bacon.

[Epogdous]

@CoolBlokeAndABit I'm glad I could help! =]

[juacox01]

Nice!